Workouts

[Guest guest]

> I was wondering on others experiences o lower body workouts vs.

> upper body. I personally am so much sore on lower body vs. upper

> body, my upper body NEVER gets as sore than my lower body. Is this

> because I 'm not pushing mysel hard enough, or just because the legs

> are such big muscles than the upper body muscles? Just wanted to

> know what others experienced and if you still had great gains from

> not getting as sore as the lower body workouts.

I would say you're probably not working your upper body as hard. I

recently switched from doing dumbbell exercises on a bench to doing

them on a Swiss ball, and MAN, I got sore. My shoulders, back, abs,

and chest all benefitted from doing chest presses, skull crushers,

shoulder raises, and lying overhead dumbbell raises on the ball. I

also slowed down my reps (especially the eccentric motion) for greater

intensity.

Another thing I did (don't try this at home!) is fall at school

Tuesday on uneven pavement, and sprained my ankle. This is a bummer

for LBWO's and cardio, HOWEVER, my arms, shoulders, and abs are

seriously sore from being on crutches! Don't try this at home! LOL

Vicki

[Guest guest]

You may not be going heavy enough on your upper body or you may be doing

exercises that you're used to. You'll be the most sore after trying something

completely different. Check out the exercise and muscle directory if you need

some ideas to change up your routine:

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

workouts

I was wondering on others experiences o lower body workouts vs.

upper body. I personally am so much sore on lower body vs. upper

body, my upper body NEVER gets as sore than my lower body. Is this

because I 'm not pushing mysel hard enough, or just because the legs

are such big muscles than the upper body muscles? Just wanted to

know what others experienced and if you still had great gains from

not getting as sore as the lower body workouts.

[Guest guest]

I increased some weight on my upper body and my arms are hurting a

bit

> I was wondering on others experiences o lower body workouts vs.

> upper body. I personally am so much sore on lower body vs. upper

> body, my upper body NEVER gets as sore than my lower body. Is this

> because I 'm not pushing mysel hard enough, or just because the

legs

> are such big muscles than the upper body muscles? Just wanted to

> know what others experienced and if you still had great gains from

> not getting as sore as the lower body workouts.

[Guest guest]

Actually...I am pretty sore today from my upper body workout

yesterday, I 've started a split of shoulders and back, legs, biceps

triceps and chest, I 'm becoming more sore throughout the day

especially two days after the workouts, I 've been pushing myself

hard!

> > I was wondering on others experiences o lower body workouts vs.

> > upper body. I personally am so much sore on lower body vs. upper

> > body, my upper body NEVER gets as sore than my lower body. Is

this

> > because I 'm not pushing mysel hard enough, or just because the

> legs

> > are such big muscles than the upper body muscles? Just wanted to

> > know what others experienced and if you still had great gains

from

> > not getting as sore as the lower body workouts.

[Guest guest]

> I was wondering on others experiences o lower body workouts vs.

> upper body. I personally am so much sore on lower body vs. upper

> body, my upper body NEVER gets as sore than my lower body. Is this

> because I 'm not pushing mysel hard enough, or just because the

legs

> are such big muscles than the upper body muscles? Just wanted to

> know what others experienced and if you still had great gains from

> not getting as sore as the lower body workouts.

I always get sore from my lower body work-out. I do get sore from

upper body, but no where near as sore. In fact, I just did my lower

body today and I am already feeling sore. I am not sure why I get so

much more sore with lower body. I have been lifting weights for

almost 3 years. I have been following the eating part for almost 2

years and I have had great success. I have added a lot of muscle to

my upper body so I know I am gaining. I just don't know why I don't

get as sore with my upper body.

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone,

Tues. I did 80 LL breaths working my abs, obliques, buns, and face. Wed. I did

70 LL breaths working my abs, obliques, buns, and legs. Today I did 45 LL

breaths working my abs and face. I also worked out with weights today.

Love, Liz

_____________________________________________________________

Click here to find the rental car that fits your needs.

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HkXdp9wnIB4pUPFPrN/?count=1234567890

[Guest guest]

Great job Lizzie!

I did my breathing; altho I don't count so no clue how many. Tonight I

used my body wrap products focusing on the stomach/hips. I also

treated myself to the Fountain of Youth both on face and top of hands.

I look and feel great!

Again, Liz, great to have you back. And for me, it feels wonderful

when I'm able to come chat. I miss everyone here when I'm unable to

join in.

Love, Wanda

>

> Hi Everyone,

> Tues. I did 80 LL breaths working my abs, obliques, buns, and face.

Wed. I did 70 LL breaths working my abs, obliques, buns, and legs.

Today I did 45 LL breaths working my abs and face. I also worked out

with weights today.

> Love, Liz

>

> _____________________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Wonderful Liz, How inspiring, I have been taking care of Mom and have not been

exercising and does my body know it. Today I change all that!!!! LL

Reflexology, yoga and 2 miles.

Love, Connie

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " lizkins9@... " <Lizkins9@...>

Hi Everyone,

Tues. I did 80 LL breaths working my abs, obliques, buns, and face. Wed. I did

70 LL breaths working my abs, obliques, buns, and legs. Today I did 45 LL

breaths working my abs and face. I also worked out with weights today.

Love, Liz

__________________________________________________________

Click here to find the rental car that fits your needs.

http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3nMUn5PO6s6uD6Uw3RfFW68AtFL2kf\

HkXdp9wnIB4pUPFPrN/?count=1234567890

[Guest guest]

Charlie,

I've had trainers give absolutely terrible advice to patients, but this was usually due to a patient's existing injury or problem that was being made worse by the advice.

In this case I think what he's trying to do is basically strengthen flexors one day, give them a rest then do extensors on another day. BUT, all the opposite muscles will be lengthened and the person could be walking around in a vulnerable unbalanced state constantly. Doing biceps with triceps, Quads with hams, Pecs with back is the way i've always done it and recommended for balance.

Not sure if there is a "correct" way, but ask your patient to perhaps ask the trainer what the reasoning is behind such a method and to experiment with other ways and see if it feels better.

my 2cents.

ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800

Workouts

For all you trainer and sports types. I had a pt tell me that his trainer wants him to lift doing biceps and chest one day, and triceps and back another, is this the correct way. Back in my day it was arms & shoulders one day and chest and back another. Thanks for the responses cant wait to see Scots!

Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office 541-575-1063 fax 541-575-5554

The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Get started.

[Guest guest]

Generally you want agonist and antagonist

on the same day to prevent articular instability

Ted Forcum,

DC, DACBSP

ACA Sports Council, President

'08 US Olympic

Sports Medicine Team Member

Back

In Motion Sports Injuries Clinic, LLC

11385 SW Scholls Ferry Road

Beaverton, Oregon 97008

503.524.9040

www.bimsportsinjuries.com

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From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Charlie Caughlin

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 3:45

PM

Subject: Workouts

For all you trainer and sports types. I had a pt tell

me that his trainer wants him to lift doing biceps and chest one day, and

triceps and back another, is this the correct way. Back in my day it was arms

& shoulders one day and chest and back another. Thanks for the responses

cant wait to see Scots!

Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC

155 NW 1st Ave

Day, Or. 97845

office 541-575-1063

fax 541-575-5554

The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your

inbox. Get started.

[Guest guest]

Have him do kettlebells cardio with core strengthening all in one. He'll be amazed.

  

Carl Bonofiglio, D.C.

Wellness Consultant

503-608-7484

www.spinalquest.net

-- Workouts

For all you trainer and sports types. I had a pt tell me that his trainer wants him to lift doing biceps and chest one day, and triceps and back another, is this the correct way. Back in my day it was arms & shoulders one day and chest and back another. Thanks for the responses cant wait to see Scots!

Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office 541-575-1063 fax 541-575-5554

The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Get started.

[Guest guest]

At the very least, what this trainer recommended speaks to their level of expertise...... not very good. While many people organize their workouts this way, like Ted mentioned, it may lead to articular instability (functional, probably not structural) and definitely won't help the patients overall functional strength even though the patient may gain some muscle, lose some fat and be able to bench more, curl more etc.I whole-heartedly agree with the kettlebell suggestion and other functional workouts that use whole body, pushing, pulling, balance and core in dynamic, movement-rich ways.The problem is.... does this patient have a good relationship with their trainer? If so, you may have to be a little more professional than stating "....this person doesn't know what they're talking about". Also, I would suggest finding an alternative trainer for them before you tell them this isn't a good way to work out; one that will do more functional exercises and routines.-Tim IrvingPortland Chiropractor and Unicyclist

[Guest guest]

Hey Charlie,Lots of different reasons to be in the gym...training for muscle hypertrophy seems to be the most common for guys, with fat loss coming in a close second. Assuming your pt is there for training, rather than rehab, we can probably assume his goals in resistance training are like most in the gym...to "stay fit". In that case, some measure of balance is worthwhile, in order to attempt to centrate joints, reduce wear and tear on those structures. The standard 4 day split you touch on is a time-honored tradition in the Western world, popularized by the York/ Atlas/Arnold body building set back in the 50s to present. With that method, muscles are trained specifically in isolation movements (think Nautilus and isolation curls).Shift

over to the Eastern bloc in the same time frame, and you see a greater focus on functional movement pattern training rather than muscle isolation techniques for hypertrophy. Guys trained for strength, using complex movements involving multiple joints. They were more concerned with improving function by optimizing neuromuscular control of those complex movement patterns. This method is more embodied in the kettlebell movement and to a certain extent the Crossfit scene.There's

a blending of these 2 traditions these days in some gyms, such as the Westside barbell crowd, lifting crazy heavy weight, few reps, more sets, in big 3 lifts (deadlift, squat, bench press), using tools to make the load a bit labile (elastic bands, chains). One nice accesible

source for this blending is a trainer named Chad Waterbury. He's a neurophysiologist by training, a gym rat since 14, and is currently informed by the likes of Stu McGill and Pavel Tsatsouline (Russian Kettlebells). Waterbury uses a modern approach of balancing the resistance workout by including a pull move, a push move, a multi-joint complex movement and a target, single joint move to isolate a "weak" link. This approach can be done with body weight or much heavier, but provides the balance you're looking for with the functional approach your chiro training should be yearning for.As an FYI, I spoke to

Stu McGill at a seminar earlier this year and he said of all of the high level athletes he has tested on his elaborate equipment in his lab,

no one has ever been able to generate as much power, pound for pound, as Pavel Tsatsouline. Kettlebells are good food. W. Snell,

D.C. Director, Solutions Sports & Spine, Inc at Hawthorne Wellness Center

3942 SE Hawthorne Blvd. Portland, OR 97214 Ph. 503-235-5484 Fax 503-235-3956

drpsnell.chiroweb.comwww.fixyourownback.comMember,

American College of Sports MedicineAssoc. Member, International Society of Clinical Rehabilitation Specialists From: caughlindrc@...Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 22:45:03 +0000Subject: Workouts

For all you trainer and sports types. I had a pt tell me that his trainer wants him to lift doing biceps and chest one day, and triceps and back another, is this the correct way. Back in my day it was arms & shoulders one day and chest and back another. Thanks for the responses cant wait to see Scots!Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office 541-575-1063 fax 541-575-5554 The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Get started.

[Guest guest]

I recommend training with Jamal Cooke at Crossfit MLK to anyone looking for great functional workouts. Katanah Grossman, DC

From: dr_tim_irving_dc <TIrving@...> Sent: Wed, May 12, 2010 8:15:03 AMSubject: Re: Workouts

At the very least, what this trainer recommended speaks to their level of expertise... ... not very good. While many people organize their workouts this way, like Ted mentioned, it may lead to articular instability (functional, probably not structural) and definitely won't help the patients overall functional strength even though the patient may gain some muscle, lose some fat and be able to bench more, curl more etc.I whole-heartedly agree with the kettlebell suggestion and other functional workouts that use whole body, pushing, pulling, balance and core in dynamic, movement-rich ways.The problem is.... does this patient have a good relationship with their trainer? If so, you may have to be a little more professional than stating "....this person doesn't know what they're talking about". Also, I would suggest finding an alternative trainer for them before you tell them this isn't a good way to work out; one that will do more

functional exercises and routines.-Tim IrvingPortland Chiropractor and Unicyclist

[Guest guest]

For your considerations, what if the problem is a chronically tonic area of soft tissue that continues to inform the NS of it's separation from innate health? How will using our compensated movement patterns under weight-bearing return that tissue to the softness of innate existing around it? Sears, DC, IAYT1218 NW 21st AvePortland, Oregon 97209v: 503-225-0255f: 503-525-6902www.docbones.comOn May 12, 2010, at 8:37 AM, Snell wrote: Hey Charlie,Lots of different reasons to be in the gym...training for muscle hypertrophy seems to be the most common for guys, with fat loss coming in a close second. Assuming your pt is there for training, rather than rehab, we can probably assume his goals in resistance training are like most in the gym...to "stay fit". In that case, some measure of balance is worthwhile, in order to attempt to centrate joints, reduce wear and tear on those structures. The standard 4 day split you touch on is a time-honored tradition in the Western world, popularized by the York/ Atlas/Arnold body building set back in the 50s to present. With that method, muscles are trained specifically in isolation movements (think Nautilus and isolation curls).Shift over to the Eastern bloc in the same time frame, and you see a greater focus on functional movement pattern training rather than muscle isolation techniques for hypertrophy. Guys trained for strength, using complex movements involving multiple joints. They were more concerned with improving function by optimizing neuromuscular control of those complex movement patterns. This method is more embodied in the kettlebell movement and to a certain extent the Crossfit scene.There's a blending of these 2 traditions these days in some gyms, such as the Westside barbell crowd, lifting crazy heavy weight, few reps, more sets, in big 3 lifts (deadlift, squat, bench press), using tools to make the load a bit labile (elastic bands, chains). One nice accesible source for this blending is a trainer named Chad Waterbury. He's a neurophysiologist by training, a gym rat since 14, and is currently informed by the likes of Stu McGill and Pavel Tsatsouline (Russian Kettlebells). Waterbury uses a modern approach of balancing the resistance workout by including a pull move, a push move, a multi-joint complex movement and a target, single joint move to isolate a "weak" link. This approach can be done with body weight or much heavier, but provides the balance you're looking for with the functional approach your chiro training should be yearning for.As an FYI, I spoke to Stu McGill at a seminar earlier this year and he said of all of the high level athletes he has tested on his elaborate equipment in his lab, no one has ever been able to generate as much power, pound for pound, as Pavel Tsatsouline. Kettlebells are good food. W. Snell, D.C. Director, Solutions Sports & Spine, Inc at Hawthorne Wellness Center 3942 SE Hawthorne Blvd. Portland, OR 97214 Ph. 503-235-5484 Fax 503-235-3956 drpsnell.chiroweb.comwww.fixyourownback.comMember, American College of Sports MedicineAssoc. Member, International Society of Clinical Rehabilitation Specialists From: caughlindrchotmailDate: Tue, 11 May 2010 22:45:03 +0000Subject: Workouts For all you trainer and sports types. I had a pt tell me that his trainer wants him to lift doing biceps and chest one day, and triceps and back another, is this the correct way. Back in my day it was arms & shoulders one day and chest and back another. Thanks for the responses cant wait to see Scots!Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office 541-575-1063 fax 541-575-5554 The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Get started.

[Guest guest]

The most likely scenario is adaptive motor behavior, inelegant movement and tissue failure with increased volume and intensity. That's the fun part of practice eh? Also what allows a good liason with a good trainer. Case in point, pt I just referred to a trusted trainer at the gym for correction of aberrent squat pattern after her current trainer kept learning the Crossfit HIT method. She kept pushing her to deadlift more weight faster on a quad dominant, poor hip control motor pattern with predictable results. W. Snell,

D.C. Director, Solutions Sports & Spine, Inc at Hawthorne Wellness Center

3942 SE Hawthorne Blvd. Portland, OR 97214 Ph. 503-235-5484 Fax 503-235-3956

drpsnell.chiroweb.comwww.fixyourownback.comMember,

American College of Sports MedicineAssoc. Member, International Society of Clinical Rehabilitation SpecialistsCC: From: dm.bones@...Subject: Re: WorkoutsDate: Wed, 12 May 2010 12:35:31 -0700drpsnell@...

For your considerations, what if the problem is a chronically tonic area of soft tissue that continues to inform the NS of it's separation from innate health? How will using our compensated movement patterns under weight-bearing return that tissue to the softness of innate existing around it? Sears, DC, IAYT1218 NW 21st AvePortland, Oregon 97209v: 503-225-0255f: 503-525-6902www.docbones.comOn May 12, 2010, at 8:37 AM, Snell wrote: Hey Charlie,Lots of different reasons to be in the gym...training for muscle hypertrophy seems to be the most common for guys, with fat loss coming in a close second. Assuming your pt is there for training, rather than rehab, we can probably assume his goals in resistance training are like most in the gym...to "stay fit". In that case, some measure of balance is worthwhile, in order to attempt to centrate joints, reduce wear and tear on those structures. The standard 4 day split you touch on is a time-honored tradition in the Western world, popularized by the York/ Atlas/Arnold body building set back in the 50s to present. With that method, muscles are trained specifically in isolation movements (think Nautilus and isolation curls).Shift over to the Eastern bloc in the same time frame, and you see a greater focus on functional movement pattern training rather than muscle isolation techniques for hypertrophy. Guys trained for strength, using complex movements involving multiple joints. They were more concerned with improving function by optimizing neuromuscular control of those complex movement patterns. This method is more embodied in the kettlebell movement and to a certain extent the Crossfit scene.There's a blending of these 2 traditions these days in some gyms, such as the Westside barbell crowd, lifting crazy heavy weight, few reps, more sets, in big 3 lifts (deadlift, squat, bench press), using tools to make the load a bit labile (elastic bands, chains). One nice accesible source for this blending is a trainer named Chad Waterbury. He's a neurophysiologist by training, a gym rat since 14, and is currently informed by the likes of Stu McGill and Pavel Tsatsouline (Russian Kettlebells). Waterbury uses a modern approach of balancing the resistance workout by including a pull move, a push move, a multi-joint complex movement and a target, single joint move to isolate a "weak" link. This approach can be done with body weight or much heavier, but provides the balance you're looking for with the functional approach your chiro training should be yearning for.As an FYI, I spoke to Stu McGill at a seminar earlier this year and he said of all of the high level athletes he has tested on his elaborate equipment in his lab, no one has ever been able to generate as much power, pound for pound, as Pavel Tsatsouline. Kettlebells are good food. W. Snell, D.C. Director, Solutions Sports & Spine, Inc at Hawthorne Wellness Center 3942 SE Hawthorne Blvd. Portland, OR 97214 Ph. 503-235-5484 Fax 503-235-3956 drpsnell.chiroweb.comwww.fixyourownback.comMember, American College of Sports MedicineAssoc. Member, International Society of Clinical Rehabilitation Specialists From: caughlindrchotmailDate: Tue, 11 May 2010 22:45:03 +0000Subject: Workouts For all you trainer and sports types. I had a pt tell me that his trainer wants him to lift doing biceps and chest one day, and triceps and back another, is this the correct way. Back in my day it was arms & shoulders one day and chest and back another. Thanks for the responses cant wait to see Scots!Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office 541-575-1063 fax 541-575-5554 The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Get started.