Inclusion or not

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/6/2002 1:49:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,

stolzfamily@... writes:

> I was thinking of asking for much, much more inclusion where he is,

> although, I am ticked that the neighborhood school was able to " get rid

> of him " . But, I also want him where he is wanted. But, if we dont'

> " force " the issue, it will never happen.

Hi ,

I can sympathize with your school dilemma. I have been fighting and

justifying Zeb's inclusive placement since he began public school. Zeb was

never wanted in a regular classroom because inclusion is a lot of work and

time for the staff as well as for the parents. It is easier and cheaper for

the school district to maintain a segregated classroom. I have visited these

classrooms in my district and will attest to the functional only education. I

have many reasons for Zeb's placement, peer modeling, social and to be

exposed to same curriculum as a typical child. All his work is modified and I

provide manipulative that make the teachers job easier. A science unit may

contain animals with backbones so I will shop for those little plastic ones.

They are now doing a unit on gears and I found some toys with gears. The

entire class has also been able to use everything I provide also promoting

peer interaction. I think the single hardest decision for every parent is

knowing your child's least restrictive environment. Where is your child most

happiest and can feel successful? It has taken a few years of hard battles

but many of the teachers now can see the difference and agree it has been a

great success. The teachers that Zeb has had in the past say that it has been

the hardest year of teaching they ever had but the most rewarding. They can

see his progress and are still amazed how far he has grown. Each parent has

their own goals for their child's future. I plan to push as far as Zeb will

go and never let the school limit his capabilities. I have the only child in

the district in this placement. Many parents feel that I am being mean by

forcing him to keep up with his typical peers and I should just let him have

fun. Once their typical children are in the same classroom with Zeb they

understand and agree that all the children are enriched. I am always

available for the teachers and keep a very open communication with them. I

always ensure that the IEP includes teacher supports for their benefit.I no

only have to worry about the educational goals, supports and services for Zeb

but for the teachers as well. I often wonder if I had made the right choice

when the behavior problems get out of control or when Zeb is having a bad

week. We always find a solution and things have worked out. It's a decision I

will never know the answer to. I just have always used my gut. At this point

I feel I have made the right choice but that could change tomarrow.

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 9 DS/OCD ?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/14/2003 8:56:14 PM US Mountain Standard Time,

johndeespicer@... writes:

> She referred to the loneliness of some

> young adults she knows who have DS

Maverick has a well rounded group of friends. Most of his friends at school

are NDA, but with his soccer and baseball he meets sp needs friends. This

weekend we are going bowling and he has an NDA friend spending the weekend

with us and we are meeting a sp needs friend at the bowling alley. I think

we just need to make sure that our children have opportunity to meet all

different types of friends.... ALL of our children.

There is a man who lives around the corner. He is 27 and mentally

challenged. He lives at home with his parents, doesn't work, keeps busy

visiting his sister and his friends in the neighborhood. He spent New Years

Eve with us and is going bowling with us this weekend. He seems happy and

fulfilled......with NEW friends not HS friends... (where he was selfcontained

btw). I think every situation is different and we need to just wait and see

and make sure that our children are exposed to everyone and everyone is

exposed to our children.

[Guest guest]

Jill,

First of all happy birthday to Emma!!!

Second, i too struggle with similiar issues that you expressed. But there

could be some balance. 's got some special needs friends and some

'typical' friends. She's totally included at school and church including

youth group, but she participates in some programs that are specific for

special needs people- like her theater group she's in now.

She's been to camps with special needs kids and without. Its a balancing

game - and we have to see what is comfortable for our kids.

Rick told me a while back when amanda was in acting classes with typical kids

and in her theater group with special needs people, ask her which she wants

to do - she has chosen her theater group and is very happy there.

But would I let her choose her school setting - I think not, but if i saw it

wasnt working or she was struggling, frustated or unhappy, would I change it-

yes I would.

doesnt require as much as we do for friendships and a social life -

shes happy with one or two close friends. I think she will be fine going

through her life like that - when she goes to HS, she will do stuff to fit in

with the kids, but she may chose on her own to have other activities that may

or may not be with special needs people.

She plays soccer on a regular league, she sings in a childrens choir, she was

in her school chorus, she may try out for cheerleaders at her middle school -

all that is so she is part of a group. She goes to the movies or bowling or

to play air hockey with special needs or typical friends.

hey,

Enjoy Emma now - before those hormones kick in! LOL

~ Mom to 12 DS and Diabetes Type 1 and 8 NY

[Guest guest]

> LOL... Ok.....now let's not get going on this one again! It scares

the

> newbies.

Rick didn't scare me, but a comment in Jill son's reply did,

and for good reason I think. She referred to the loneliness of some

young adults she knows who have DS, because the friendships from HS

were not enduring and no new opportunities have presented

themselves. ly, I have not spent an inordinate amount of time

dwelling on Emma's social life past high school, but now I'm

wondering... Is this a fairly universal problem, or do you all see

this changing with the times, too? I have greatly appreciated

Marilyn Trainer's book " Differences in Common " , and particularly the

stories of her son Ben with his friends who also have DS. She notes

that as he grew older he was less inclined to want to " hang out " with

his parents but was a social butterfly with his group. It breaks my

heart to think of Emma in our small town, stuck with her parents on

Friday night (although WE'D love to have her) because her friends and

siblings grew up and got on with their lives. I think I'd rather

stick my head back in my shell and worry about her current issues,

like low trunk strength and orthotics. That's much easier.

Jill Spicer (Mom to Luke, , Song, , & Emma--DS, 2 yrs 2 days

old!)

[Guest guest]

Jackie,

but the real issue is - are they really lonely? Or do we just perceive them

as lonely? I feel bad for amanda sometimes, but then again, I know she

couldnt handle what the other 12 year olds are handling thats why sports, or

a movie is always a good option.

I think more than a few hours with anyone for amanda is alot. She actually

enjoys sitting in her room on friday nites watching a video, rather than

hanging with us.

We have these Friday night socials for teens like 18 and older with spec

needs run by YAI. maybe something like that will be around for ryan and

others out there.

And then there's always a possibility of hooking him up with amanda LOL!

~ Mom to 12 DS and Diabetes Type 1 and 8 NY

[Guest guest]

I believe what says is true, and her and I have written about this in

the past as well. I think most of the hurt comes from my perceptions of how

I grew up, and is totally different. I do think he is content to sit

and watch a video rather than go off with the kids. But I have seen other

times where on the weekend he'll just kind of walk around the house alot and

can't find something to do on his own (when he's bored with watching a tape

or listening to music) and his brothers are off at a friend's house and

only has Don and I. No, he never complains, but his actions tell me he is

bored and being bored can be lonely, whether he communicates this or not.

Anytime we are in a social situation with other children I have always made

an attempt to say to his sibblings or one of the others, " hey, would

probably play flashlight tag, or hoops, etc., Why don't you go get him "

because if I were to go get him he would balk. But I'm telling you, it takes

a pretty unique kid to just go and invite to participate, because they

just don't think like that. Our friends have good kids, too and so do I, but

kids are kids and it has been my experience that they don't seek to include

. The only time I ever see anyone initiate inviting to participate

is usually a much younger child, my neice for instance who is only 4!

loves to play with her and that's fine, because he can understand her because

maybe that's the cognitive level he is at.

I'm certainly not saying this to insult anyone or scare anyone, but it's the

truth as it pertains to . Does this mean I won't encourage older

children to include him, NO! But the reality is, if I don't constantly

attend to the issue in social situations, won't be included. Do I

constantly attend to it? No, I don't. I can't live my life like

that........personally, but others may choose to.

will do what is comfortable with and happy with. He is a very

sociable and gabby kid. I'm not really sure, , if he has the

cognitive ability to say, " Mom, I'm bored, or lonely, " because I'm not sure

he understands the meanings of emotions like that. That's why I am totally

amazed how 's daughter could communicate with her last week about

her troubles. is not there yet. I do know is happy most of the

time and he loves going to school so I guess as long as this is evident, I

will assume I'm doing a good job as his mother.

Did I answer your question, ? LOL.

Jackie, Mom to 15ds, 12, and Bradley 8

[Guest guest]

I love this loop ,, it seems like we are all dealing with same issues, just

at different times. My daughter 9 with ds has always been a big tv

watcher , movies , cartoons doesnt matter even though she is beginning to

like shows a little older in viewing which I think god for 5 years of Barney

and Rugrats has driven me to my limits. I knew these had to go when I

starting singing Barney songs in my sleep, And If I have to listen to

's squeeky voice another day!! Im not promising to be nice!! LOL!!! I

have asked myself the same questions you all have about how important is it

for her to have friends? She says sometimes she wants the freedom of playing

outside by herself with friends also , But As we know she cannot go

unsupervised for any period of time, I do take her outside to visit the

neighbor kids at times , but I really noticed she does more side to side

playing than actually interative playing so it satifies her to be able to (

Play ) Especially with other kids ride on toys---lol--- As she is the street

bike theif!! LOL,,,,,, I want her to have bonds but I know she only wants to

be equal and have the freedom every other child wants and let her decide how

much she wants to do with other kids , I just take it at her requests , plus

she also has friends at school in her class and school as the whole school

seems to know ? I often wonder why ,,,, is it by good or bad they know

her!! LOL ,,, So all I can say and suggest is let your child lead you to his

or her needs and all will fall into place. Besides I often asked myself is

it ME Or ERIn who wants her to have friends and I really feel more Me than

really cared for! Jeanette mom

to 4 .. Ages 6, 9 ds, 11, 15 A house full of mischieve

[Guest guest]

> . It bothers me that doesn't ASK to play with friends, or run with

> the pack when we are at a friends house and all the kids are playing

> together

Ok.....NOW being the parent of 2 children with ds let me share this.

Maverick is all over the place, where ever there is activity. He will go

with whoever/whatever interests him and make himself a part of the group

whether he is welcome or not.

on the other hand, MAY join in, but unless she is prodded she is too

willing to sit on the couch or with a book on her lap because I am always

after her to DO something!

They are both happy, one is much more outgoing and social and active than the

other. It's just their personalities. I feel that one will want to be

around people more as an adult and one won't And I feel that one will seek

out friends and things to do, while one won't. And I think they will both be

happy with what they do just as my NDA children will..they will find the

balance in their lives or their friends and put themselves where they want to

be. I have always been an introvert and not involved in alot (now I am only

because of my children.). My sisters have always been the active,

cheerleader types. We are different, and that doesn't make one happier than

the other.

As adults there are SO many opportunities for our kids....I see this even

with the older adults who are in group homes that I have worked with. What

YOU color as happy and what THEY color as happy are not always going to be

the same.

Remember the I is for Individual.

[Guest guest]

Jackie,

is only 8, but I can see him heading in the same direction. It bothers

me that doesn't ASK to play with friends, or run with the pack when we

are at a friends house and all the kids are playing together (he prefers the

computer or TV). BUT, seems quite content. I really struggle with how

much to push him socially. With , do you think he is lonely or feels he is

missing out?

Mom to (8, DS) and Grace (5)

[Guest guest]

--

It sounds like you have a lot of great opportunities for in the Big

Apple. I wish we had some of those here.

Our county program used to also have a summer camp type program for kids

with significant disabilities--it was a great program and met 3 x's a week

for 8 weeks during the summer months. That was also disbanded about 15-17

yrs. ago because the county " people " felt vocational skills were more

important for them to provide (which they then did for kids 16-21) and they

felt the younger kids 8-16 could participate in " regular " programs if they

wanted. Well, some could, but many couldn't. In my 15 years of teaching

students with multiple disabilities the most common complaint was that there

was nothing for their kids to do in the summer--most of the kids sat home

watching tv/videos most all day everyday. Seven years ago with the help of

our local Arc I started a summer program. It has been tremendously

successful and is still going strong as long as the funding is there. It is

for 6 hrs. a day, 3 days a week at minimal cost to the family and

transportation is provided. We can only take 12-15 kids a year and there is

a waiting list, so obviously there was a need for this type of program in

our county. One of the biggest advantages of the program is that it also

involves " typical " kids who volunteer to assist as extra hands, role models

and friends to the kids participating. The ratio is usually 1 " typical " to

every 2 kids with special needs.

Jill

Mom to Mac & Kit

Re: Re: inclusion or not

> Jill,

> First of all happy birthday to Emma!!!

>

> Second, i too struggle with similiar issues that you expressed. But there

> could be some balance. 's got some special needs friends and some

> 'typical' friends. She's totally included at school and church including

> youth group, but she participates in some programs that are specific for

> special needs people- like her theater group she's in now.

>

> She's been to camps with special needs kids and without. Its a balancing

> game - and we have to see what is comfortable for our kids.

>

> Rick told me a while back when amanda was in acting classes with typical

kids

> and in her theater group with special needs people, ask her which she

wants

> to do - she has chosen her theater group and is very happy there.

>

> But would I let her choose her school setting - I think not, but if i saw

it

> wasnt working or she was struggling, frustated or unhappy, would I change

it-

> yes I would.

>

> doesnt require as much as we do for friendships and a social life -

> shes happy with one or two close friends. I think she will be fine going

> through her life like that - when she goes to HS, she will do stuff to fit

in

> with the kids, but she may chose on her own to have other activities that

may

> or may not be with special needs people.

>

> She plays soccer on a regular league, she sings in a childrens choir, she

was

> in her school chorus, she may try out for cheerleaders at her middle

school -

> all that is so she is part of a group. She goes to the movies or bowling

or

> to play air hockey with special needs or typical friends.

>

> hey,

> Enjoy Emma now - before those hormones kick in! LOL

>

> ~ Mom to 12 DS and Diabetes Type 1 and 8 NY

>

> Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for

messages to go to the sender of the message.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Elaine,

My son socializes with many many many people with DS. he loves all the

functions weve attended like the suaree and the winter getaway. He thinks

that the parents with kids of DS really know how to have a good time!

Its not our sibs, its the other people who need to be enlightened - someone

said to me today that shes glad her step daughter is hanging out with amanda

because her stepdaughter was very hung up on her looks and perfection. She

thinks that by Sunny hanging out with amanda, the " art of perfection " will be

replaced with an inner beauty and strength. WOW - nice to be enlightening to

some!

~ Mom to 12 DS and Diabetes Type 1 and 8 NY

[Guest guest]

Joy,

Need I suffer alone????

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/15/03 10:09:33 PM Central Standard Time,

linman42@... writes:

Well I'd rather not have to suffer at all, but you have my sympathy

to......you know I already suffered through the three older girls, and there

really is something to that thing about all the females in the household

getting PMS about the same time. (boy could stuff fly around here, roflol)

Joy

[Guest guest]

My daughter (now 20) was included for almost her entire school career. This

year she is in special ed classes as a vocational student and spends her time

on job sites, except for one credited course she is taking pertaining to

education. BTW, it is unmodified for her and she has a B average.

I would not want any of you to go through what we did over the years

concerning education. Celebrate the remarkable changes that have taken place

now and the opportunties your children have ... celebrate and take advantage

of them!! Don't look back to what we did, look forward to what you can have

that is so much better!!! The best compliment you can give the parents that

have gone before you is to blaze a bigger trail for more kids!!

We are very lucky that my daughter has made the progress she did in school.

She did it without the support she needed, she did it many times in spite of

her teachers.

She loved being in regular ed classes, she took what she saw as her place in

the classroom. She was motivated by her peers, she was welcomed by most, she

was part of her school community in a way the special ed students who stayed

in self contained were not. That is the nature of our school systems, others

could be different but kids in self contained here are still isolated, they

are still working with 30 year old reading programs and materials, they are

still doing the same dull ditto sheets year after year, they are spending 2-3

hours a day sewing quilts. Science lessons are plant a seed in a cup, water

it and watch it grow ... year after year. My daughter took life science and

biology in high school ... and passed the courses just as her peers ...

unmodified. And she was not the lowest functioning student

(according to most of her teachers she hasn't been most of the times) Even

if she was, her self esteem is so high, she bases it on what SHE does, not on

what others do ... so that has never been a problem for her. She thinks of

herself as an accomplished, successful, beautiful person ... and she is! ;-)

What did inclusion do for her? It gave her opportunties ... to learn, to

learn what others learned, (it helped to take geography ... she knows where

IRELAND is in the world!) to make friends, to know others, to learn, to have

peer tutors full time every day, to participate in extra curricular

activities, to go to pj parties, to go to b-day parties, to go to the movies

with college buds home on Christmas break ..... Will that last forever ...

who cares, she will always have this as part of her formative years ... If

the outcome for her is no different than the outcome for a student who wasn't

included, that at worse inclusion would prove to be as successful as self

contained classes .... that stands up to any criticism!

Inclusion allowed my daughter to grow and show us part of her we would have

never seen .... she had the bravado to try out for musical parts in the class

play .... she acted on stage in 5 productions and was on the stage crew for

others .... she was a keynote speaker at our Buddy Walk, sharing the stage

with mayors, university president and VIPS in our community, speaking to 850

people .... never doubting her ability to do so!! Inclusion gave her the self

confidence to do that! Not bad for a kid who doctors suggested we

institutionalize at her birth.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

Hey, , I'm with you on the guilt thing. I've been there. I must say

that has lessened over the years. I've had to practice telling myself that I

have done a very good job as a mother and there are just going to be times

where if all wants to do is watch a video when we're visiting, he's

extremely happy doing that, and in order for me to continue to be a

" well-adjusted " (LOL) happy adult, I need my time to socialize and not be

" the therapist " by making sure is being stimulated. He loves going

through other friends' videos too.......he lets them know if something is

misfiled or in the wrong box! Our friends always get a kick out of that.

Enjoy the game this weekend.......it's only a few hours out of 's life!

Yes, GO EAGLES!

Jackie, Mom to 15ds, 12, and Bradley 8

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/15/03 7:23:27 PM Central Standard Time,

karriemom@... writes:

> I hope everyone can share their opinions and views, without any ill

> feelings. Because we are individuals too!!

> Sue mom to Kate 13 and Karrie 6 w/ds

HI Sue

I've been catching up on mail (still on old puter uggggg) and waiting to

respond, making sure I don't repeat what's already been said but when

discussing Inclusion i must share that it always brings out passion heehee I

sounded a lot like Judi when Sara was 7 lol now Sara's 11 and I listen more,

and shake my head a lot lol no its not age heehee anyway this is my

understanding. Those of us who have or who are currently placing our children

in Reg Ed are facing parents who think we are nuts heehee A friend and myself

were really the first in a group who had our kids included. Parents made very

ugly comments to us about our parenting skills........ bringing on ill

feelings. Ive had to defend Sara's placement so many time I thought about

making a T-shirt and wearing my answer. Currently Ive developed a " I don't

care attitude " I believe in educational choices and if folks don't they are

WRONG heehee see I believe Im right and I don't question myself anymore lolol

Anyway Im rambling, the point is ill feelings come when you feel you have to

justify the choices you make ........... I don't feel ill anymore, and I

don't justify my choices but I still shake my head a lot lolol

Kathy mom to Sara 11

[Guest guest]

Parents shouldn't feel guilty about the choices they make ... but the nature of

humans is that we do! ;-) Prodding kids in a certain direction, that's our job

as parents, whether the kid has DS or not! ;-) Even when they reach adulthood we

have a hard time letting them make their own decisions and choices.

Each child, each family have such different dynamics that there is no way what

works for one child would necessarily be the best choice for another. IMO what

parents do need to work on is making sure the choice they make is an informed

one, that they have all the facts before they make a choice and that they have

checked out what resources are available for their child and if it would work

for their situation.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/15/03 3:33:40 PM Central Standard Time,

writes:

> But it's too often choice by manipulation. Parents aren't offered

> inclusion, just the term; they get at best a jury-rigged less than

> competently structured arrangement or at worst a dumping set up that really

> is set up for failure, not inclusion with supports and services as mandated

> by LRE requirements. No surprise that educators can then point to " better "

> results in the self-contained placement.

>

> More parents might choose to have their child included if they had a real

> choice and there were more examples of outcomes with children whose

> inclusion was really inclusion.

I guess I feel like we as parents need to be alert to crummy teaching in any

setting our children are in. We have great examples of inclusion going on in

our district. We also have some more self contained programs that are great.

But, we also have lousy inclusion and lousy self contained where just plain

babysitting is being done in whatever the setting is.

As parents we always need to be involved and pay attention to what is

happening and not be accepting of a placement just because they call it a

specific thing.

Karyn

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/16/2003 11:12:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, b4alltoday

writes:

> How many of us still hang out with our HS

> Friends?? or even college?

You know, I hang out a lot with parents of children with disabilities! I have

made some very dear lifelong friends in our local support group and other

parents I have met thru my work. The best time we have is a weekend we spend at

the beach every year ... moms only!! We go to dinner together, we go to movies

together, we go to conventions together!

Miss Stefanie has opened my life to many many things and many many people!

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

Now that's what i like to read!!! Way to go!!!

Loree

Re: Inclusion or not

> My daughter (now 20) was included for almost her entire school career.

This

> year she is in special ed classes as a vocational student and spends her

time

> on job sites, except for one credited course she is taking pertaining to

> education. BTW, it is unmodified for her and she has a B average.

>

> I would not want any of you to go through what we did over the years

> concerning education. Celebrate the remarkable changes that have taken

place

> now and the opportunties your children have ... celebrate and take

advantage

> of them!! Don't look back to what we did, look forward to what you can

have

> that is so much better!!! The best compliment you can give the parents

that

> have gone before you is to blaze a bigger trail for more kids!!

>

> We are very lucky that my daughter has made the progress she did in

school.

> She did it without the support she needed, she did it many times in spite

of

> her teachers.

> She loved being in regular ed classes, she took what she saw as her place

in

> the classroom. She was motivated by her peers, she was welcomed by most,

she

> was part of her school community in a way the special ed students who

stayed

> in self contained were not. That is the nature of our school systems,

others

> could be different but kids in self contained here are still isolated,

they

> are still working with 30 year old reading programs and materials, they

are

> still doing the same dull ditto sheets year after year, they are spending

2-3

> hours a day sewing quilts. Science lessons are plant a seed in a cup,

water

> it and watch it grow ... year after year. My daughter took life science

and

> biology in high school ... and passed the courses just as her peers ...

> unmodified. And she was not the lowest functioning student

> (according to most of her teachers she hasn't been most of the times)

Even

> if she was, her self esteem is so high, she bases it on what SHE does, not

on

> what others do ... so that has never been a problem for her. She thinks of

> herself as an accomplished, successful, beautiful person ... and she is!

;-)

>

> What did inclusion do for her? It gave her opportunties ... to learn, to

> learn what others learned, (it helped to take geography ... she knows

where

> IRELAND is in the world!) to make friends, to know others, to learn, to

have

> peer tutors full time every day, to participate in extra curricular

> activities, to go to pj parties, to go to b-day parties, to go to the

movies

> with college buds home on Christmas break ..... Will that last forever ...

> who cares, she will always have this as part of her formative years ... If

> the outcome for her is no different than the outcome for a student who

wasn't

> included, that at worse inclusion would prove to be as successful as self

> contained classes .... that stands up to any criticism!

>

> Inclusion allowed my daughter to grow and show us part of her we would

have

> never seen .... she had the bravado to try out for musical parts in the

class

> play .... she acted on stage in 5 productions and was on the stage crew

for

> others .... she was a keynote speaker at our Buddy Walk, sharing the stage

> with mayors, university president and VIPS in our community, speaking to

850

> people .... never doubting her ability to do so!! Inclusion gave her the

self

> confidence to do that! Not bad for a kid who doctors suggested we

> institutionalize at her birth.

> Cheryl in VA

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Again, Jackie and I concur... (and thanks by the way)

But I often feel that amanda's social life is contingent upon my

orchestrating it. As Jackie said, do I do that all the time? No of course i

dont. I can take a few kids bowling for a few hours or out to lunch or to a

movie or to my house, but I cant do it all the time.

Heres another issue (as i leave for the Lancaster weekend - opening some cans

here), doesnt have any friends with ds her age here in NY- that live

near us. I know by her interactions with kids from this group, that she is

missing out by not having someone so like her as a friend.

A friend of mine wants me to hook amanda up with a friend of hers whos son is

amandas age and has ds who is in a similiar situ as amanda. I just dont have

the energy to arrange yet one more thing. Someday, maybe i will...

~ Mom to 12 DS and Diabetes Type 1 and 8 NY

[Guest guest]

I have to comment on this heehee How many of us still hang out with our HS

Friends?? Isn't this right ???? heehee

My class has a listserv and about 40 of us participates in it. We

aren't real active - but we do keep in touch.

has maintained her relationship with her childhood friend from WV.

Her friend now lives about 25 minutes from us. TJ is much more social - over

the holidays, we'd have anywhere from 2-8 extra boys every night. One even

brought his girlfriend. They hug each other goodbye/goodnight and say PEACE.

Tim and I enjoyed the boys who came over even when TJ wasn't home.

Kathy mom to Sara 11 .......... playing catch up again

Me, too!

[Guest guest]

I do that self talk all the time, " I AM a good mother, I AM a good

mother... " ...LOL. It ain't easy, is it?!!!

Thanks,

----- Original Message -----

From: jbocci55@...

I've had to practice telling myself that I

have done a very good job as a mother and there are just going to be times

where if all wants to do is watch a video when we're visiting, he's

extremely happy doing that, and in order for me to continue to be a

" well-adjusted " (LOL) happy adult, I need my time to socialize and not be

" the therapist " by making sure is being stimulated.

[Guest guest]

> I do that self talk all the time, " I AM a good mother, I AM a good

mother... " ...LOL. It ain't easy, is it?!!!

>

Was someone discussing self talk? I must have missed it.

That is one of the complaints from school, & has been for a long time, is

that she uses self talk.

They act like it means she's crazy or something. Also, has a huge

imagination, & likes to act out parts of movies.

The other day, the aide said she shut the door on the bathroom stall & said

their were flies & bugs in there. The aide seemed to think she was

hallucinating!!!!

Donna

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/16/03 11:45:13 AM Central Standard Time,

b4alltoday@... writes:

> Parents made very

> ugly comments to us about our parenting skills........ bringing on ill

> feelings. Ive had to defend Sara's placement so many time I thought about

> making a T-shirt and wearing my answer. Currently Ive developed a " I don't

> care attitude " I believe in educational choices and if folks don't they are

>

The first public school we had here for " our ' kids was st rictly

trainable. NO academics, separate building, the whole works. Baby sitting.

Some of the mothers were bragging to me about this wonderful school, and I

wouldn't even put my kid in there. They never said anything to my face but I

can imagine what they said behind my back. They were just happy to have ANY

school for their kids but I wanted something better, and found it. I didn't

have much to do with any of them anyway so it didn't bother me. I KNEW I was

right, and they probably did too but wouldn't admit it. We all have to do

what we believe is right.

Jessie, Mom to , 38, and the light of my life.