Re: Vegan diet, exercise shown to help slow prostate cancer

[Guest guest]

I thought this was an interesting quote associated with that study.......

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"I always find it amusing" that people call the diet hard, Ornish said. "Compared to having your prostate removed? ... The only side effects are you feel better and it helps prevent heart disease."

http://news./s/ap/20050811/ap_on_he_me/prostate_cancer;_ylt=AikHHkeQHfds8WYKqCfOXpKs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3czJjNGZoBHNlYwM3NTE-

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T. pct35768@...

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[Guest guest]

That's funny. But recognize that women have been having stuff removed for years and the centenarians are 4 to 1 women.

If thy eye offend thee cut it out. I talked to one 85yo (10 yrs cancer free) who said he'd never do it again - his reason incontinence. My reaction was I'd pee all over myself to get rid of cancer. Funny how people can mention incontinence in the same sentence with PCa?

Living is getting used to what comes along. EG, a catheter which I would hate to do again - some people have adapted to self use daily (only to stay alive).

Diets are easy - any diet.

Pain is another thing that's interesting. We hate pain - it slows us up, bends us over, but the opposite is not easy either. If I have pain I know I'm alive and my nerves are working.

Sooner or later the common NSAIDS, etc, don't work so well.

Regards.

[ ] Re: Vegan diet, exercise shown to help slow prostate cancer

I thought this was an interesting quote associated with that study.......

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

"I always find it amusing" that people call the diet hard, Ornish said. "Compared to having your prostate removed? ... The only side effects are you feel better and it helps prevent heart disease."

http://news./s/ap/20050811/ap_on_he_me/prostate_cancer;_ylt=AikHHkeQHfds8WYKqCfOXpKs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3czJjNGZoBHNlYwM3NTE-

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T. pct35768@...

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[Guest guest]

I already answered that once today, must have been the other group.

It's just silly.

Regards.

[ ] Re: Vegan diet, exercise shown to help slow prostate cancer

Published Abstract:INTENSIVE LIFESTYLE CHANGES MAY AFFECT THE PROGRESSION OF PROSTATECANCER.Journal of Urology. 174(3):1065-1070, September 2005.ORNISH, DEAN *+; WEIDNER, GERDI; FAIR, WILLIAM R.; MARLIN, RUTH;PETTENGILL, ELAINE B.; RAISIN, CAREN J.; DUNN-EMKE, STACEY;CRUTCHFIELD, LILA; JACOBS, F NICHOLAS; BARNARD, R JAMES; ARONSON,WILLIAM J.; McCORMAC, PATRICIA; McKNIGHT, DAMIEN J.; FEIN, JORDAN D.;DNISTRIAN, ANN M.; WEINSTEIN, JEANMAIRE; NGO, TUNG H.; MENDELL, NANCYR.; CARROLL, PETER R. ++Abstract:Purpose: Men with prostate cancer are often advised to make changes indiet and lifestyle, although the impact of these changes has not beenwell documented. Therefore, we evaluated the effects of comprehensivelifestyle changes on prostate specific antigen (PSA), treatment trendsand serum stimulated LNCaP cell growth in men with early, biopsyproven prostate cancer after 1 year.Materials and Methods: Patient recruitment was limited to men who hadchosen not to undergo any conventional treatment, which provided anunusual opportunity to have a nonintervention randomized control groupto avoid the confounding effects of interventions such as radiation,surgery or androgen deprivation therapy. A total of 93 volunteers withserum PSA 4 to 10 ng/ml and cancer Gleason scores less than 7 wererandomly assigned to an experimental group that was asked to makecomprehensive lifestyle changes or to a usual care control group.Results: None of the experimental group patients but 6 controlpatients underwent conventional treatment due to an increase in PSAand/or progression of disease on magnetic resonance imaging. PSAdecreased 4% in the experimental group but increased 6% in the controlgroup (p = 0.016). The growth of LNCaP prostate cancer cells (AmericanType Culture Collection, Manassas, Virginia) was inhibited almost 8times more by serum from the experimental than from the control group(70% vs 9%, p <0.001). Changes in serum PSA and also in LNCaP cellgrowth were significantly associated with the degree of change in dietand lifestyle.Conclusions: Intensive lifestyle changes may affect the progression ofearly, low grade prostate cancer in men. Further studies and longerterm followup are warranted.

[Guest guest]

What is " just silly " ?

> I already answered that once today, must have been the other group.

> It's just silly.

>

> Regards.

> [ ] Re: Vegan diet, exercise shown to help

slow prostate cancer

>

>

> Published Abstract:

>

> INTENSIVE LIFESTYLE CHANGES MAY AFFECT THE PROGRESSION OF PROSTATE

> CANCER.

> Journal of Urology. 174(3):1065-1070, September 2005.

> ORNISH, DEAN *+; WEIDNER, GERDI; FAIR, WILLIAM R.; MARLIN, RUTH;

> PETTENGILL, ELAINE B.; RAISIN, CAREN J.; DUNN-EMKE, STACEY;

> CRUTCHFIELD, LILA; JACOBS, F NICHOLAS; BARNARD, R JAMES; ARONSON,

> WILLIAM J.; McCORMAC, PATRICIA; McKNIGHT, DAMIEN J.; FEIN, JORDAN D.;

> DNISTRIAN, ANN M.; WEINSTEIN, JEANMAIRE; NGO, TUNG H.; MENDELL, NANCY

> R.; CARROLL, PETER R. ++

>

> Abstract:

> Purpose: Men with prostate cancer are often advised to make changes in

> diet and lifestyle, although the impact of these changes has not been

> well documented. Therefore, we evaluated the effects of comprehensive

> lifestyle changes on prostate specific antigen (PSA), treatment trends

> and serum stimulated LNCaP cell growth in men with early, biopsy

> proven prostate cancer after 1 year.

>

> Materials and Methods: Patient recruitment was limited to men who had

> chosen not to undergo any conventional treatment, which provided an

> unusual opportunity to have a nonintervention randomized control group

> to avoid the confounding effects of interventions such as radiation,

> surgery or androgen deprivation therapy. A total of 93 volunteers with

> serum PSA 4 to 10 ng/ml and cancer Gleason scores less than 7 were

> randomly assigned to an experimental group that was asked to make

> comprehensive lifestyle changes or to a usual care control group.

>

> Results: None of the experimental group patients but 6 control

> patients underwent conventional treatment due to an increase in PSA

> and/or progression of disease on magnetic resonance imaging. PSA

> decreased 4% in the experimental group but increased 6% in the control

> group (p = 0.016). The growth of LNCaP prostate cancer cells (American

> Type Culture Collection, Manassas, Virginia) was inhibited almost 8

> times more by serum from the experimental than from the control group

> (70% vs 9%, p <0.001). Changes in serum PSA and also in LNCaP cell

> growth were significantly associated with the degree of change in diet

> and lifestyle.

>

> Conclusions: Intensive lifestyle changes may affect the progression of

> early, low grade prostate cancer in men. Further studies and longer

> term followup are warranted.

[Guest guest]

Hi :

One reason that occurred to me is that a 4% or 6% change in the

average PSA reading of a group is so close to zero that it could

easily have been the result of just one 'outlier' individual in each

group. I really wonder about the statistical significance of such a

small difference in numbers that can range from 0.4 to 40 I believe -

a factor of 100!

{These numbers are from memory. Please say so if someone thinks

these numbers are incorrect.}

Rodney.

> What is " just silly " ?

>

> --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...>

wrote:

> > I already answered that once today, must have been the other

group.

> > It's just silly.

> >

> > Regards.

> > [ ] Re: Vegan diet, exercise shown to help

> slow prostate cancer

> >

> >

> > Published Abstract:

> >

> > INTENSIVE LIFESTYLE CHANGES MAY AFFECT THE PROGRESSION OF

PROSTATE

> > CANCER.

> > Journal of Urology. 174(3):1065-1070, September 2005.

> > ORNISH, DEAN *+; WEIDNER, GERDI; FAIR, WILLIAM R.; MARLIN, RUTH;

> > PETTENGILL, ELAINE B.; RAISIN, CAREN J.; DUNN-EMKE, STACEY;

> > CRUTCHFIELD, LILA; JACOBS, F NICHOLAS; BARNARD, R JAMES;

ARONSON,

> > WILLIAM J.; McCORMAC, PATRICIA; McKNIGHT, DAMIEN J.; FEIN,

JORDAN D.;

> > DNISTRIAN, ANN M.; WEINSTEIN, JEANMAIRE; NGO, TUNG H.; MENDELL,

NANCY

> > R.; CARROLL, PETER R. ++

> >

> > Abstract:

> > Purpose: Men with prostate cancer are often advised to make

changes in

> > diet and lifestyle, although the impact of these changes has

not been

> > well documented. Therefore, we evaluated the effects of

comprehensive

> > lifestyle changes on prostate specific antigen (PSA), treatment

trends

> > and serum stimulated LNCaP cell growth in men with early, biopsy

> > proven prostate cancer after 1 year.

> >

> > Materials and Methods: Patient recruitment was limited to men

who had

> > chosen not to undergo any conventional treatment, which

provided an

> > unusual opportunity to have a nonintervention randomized

control group

> > to avoid the confounding effects of interventions such as

radiation,

> > surgery or androgen deprivation therapy. A total of 93

volunteers with

> > serum PSA 4 to 10 ng/ml and cancer Gleason scores less than 7

were

> > randomly assigned to an experimental group that was asked to

make

> > comprehensive lifestyle changes or to a usual care control

group.

> >

> > Results: None of the experimental group patients but 6 control

> > patients underwent conventional treatment due to an increase in

PSA

> > and/or progression of disease on magnetic resonance imaging. PSA

> > decreased 4% in the experimental group but increased 6% in the

control

> > group (p = 0.016). The growth of LNCaP prostate cancer cells

(American

> > Type Culture Collection, Manassas, Virginia) was inhibited

almost 8

> > times more by serum from the experimental than from the control

group

> > (70% vs 9%, p <0.001). Changes in serum PSA and also in LNCaP

cell

> > growth were significantly associated with the degree of change

in diet

> > and lifestyle.

> >

> > Conclusions: Intensive lifestyle changes may affect the

progression of

> > early, low grade prostate cancer in men. Further studies and

longer

> > term followup are warranted.

[Guest guest]

Folks: Traffic is way up. I went out for a few hours yesterday and when I came back I had 38 e-mails waiting for me.

When you are having some sort of " silly " conversation or question with one other person on the list PLEASE use your noodle and send it to them off list. It just could be that the other 1750 people on the list are not interested in your one on one conversation!

on 8/11/2005 11:42 PM, drsusanforshey at drsusanforshey@... wrote:

What is " just silly " ?

[Guest guest]

One of the fallacies is depending on a PSA test for anything. I can change mine a few tenths just by raising/lowering fluid level. Now that the Proscar is working on the BPH, the change is about 0.2 between fasted and not fasted in a range near 4.7.

That's 4 %.

12 hrs of fasting, I can drop 6 # on a low sodium diet.

So I would say the test needs better controls.

Regards.

[ ] Re: Vegan diet, exercise shown to help slow prostate cancer

Hi :One reason that occurred to me is that a 4% or 6% change in the average PSA reading of a group is so close to zero that it could easily have been the result of just one 'outlier' individual in each group. I really wonder about the statistical significance of such a small difference in numbers that can range from 0.4 to 40 I believe - a factor of 100!{These numbers are from memory. Please say so if someone thinks these numbers are incorrect.} Rodney.