Re: Re: endocrinology

[Guest guest]

I read somewhere they eat 140 diff species of sea stuff. That must be close to anything.

I eat some oysters, shrimp, crab, clams, just to keep up with the latest exposures.

A while back, I managed to get a bucket of oysters in NC, and gobble a cupla dozen before my son got home. He boiled 'em to complete rubber to kill all the "viruses". How can I develop immunity that way?

I gotta have more info.

Regards.

[ ] Re: endocrinology

Hi JW:My approach to fat is to minimize it everywhere whenever possible - but not in a fanatical manner ....... periodically I use butter, and safflower and olive oils - then eat fish and a few nuts, which I hope will bring my fat intake comfortably above the RDA. As for looking for things I could change about this, I am personally motivated to look at epidemiological studies as a guide to what may or may not be healthy. This is not the only way of course. But it is my preferred way.My recollection is that the japanese eat on average 200g of fish per day. They have a pretty decent lifespan notwithstanding their smoking habits. But there are a lot of things the japanese do diffently so fish may not be the key factor. In any event, I eat less fish than they do. Perhaps I should eat more.Rodney.> It occurs to me that we don;t have enough info in the endocrine system.> We've touched on the LA and ALA, LOX and COX pathways, in generalities. > We are afraid of the ALA PCa connection, yet not afraid of the EPA which is the next step to produce the EPA equivalents of the prostaglandins, thromboxanes, and leukotrienes of the LA pathway. Are those better? I guess not.> > The idea that EPA somehow is better because it controls the AA pathway is not exactly true, I've found, because the AA pathway is self regulating.> These hormones (eicosanoids) are important because they control the body's systems. They modualte the cardivascular, pulmonary, immune, reproductive, and secretory functions. Yet we have talked little about these in the CR groups. > > The eicosanoids include prostaglandins and trhrmboxanes formed in the cyclooxygenase (COX) pathways, and leukotrienes, hydroxy fatty acids, and lypoxins formed in the lypooxygenase (LOX) pathway.> > In the AA pathway, the COX produces PGE2, PGF2 alpha, PGD2, PGI2, TXA2, and prostacyclins.> The ALA pathway sorta mirrors this producing PGE3, PGF3alpha, PGD3, PGI3, TXA3.> > So my first question is does the ALA pathway produce "better" hormones? My first inclination is to not dose with either LA, ALA, or EPA/DHA and leave out all added fat until I analyze my system and figure out which hormone I need to modulate. (vasopressin)> Perhaps none can be modulated with added pure fatty acids? > > Regards.

[Guest guest]

I read somewhere they eat 140 diff species of sea stuff. That must be close to anything.

I eat some oysters, shrimp, crab, clams, just to keep up with the latest exposures.

A while back, I managed to get a bucket of oysters in NC, and gobble a cupla dozen before my son got home. He boiled 'em to complete rubber to kill all the "viruses". How can I develop immunity that way?

I gotta have more info.

Regards.

[ ] Re: endocrinology

Hi JW:My approach to fat is to minimize it everywhere whenever possible - but not in a fanatical manner ....... periodically I use butter, and safflower and olive oils - then eat fish and a few nuts, which I hope will bring my fat intake comfortably above the RDA. As for looking for things I could change about this, I am personally motivated to look at epidemiological studies as a guide to what may or may not be healthy. This is not the only way of course. But it is my preferred way.My recollection is that the japanese eat on average 200g of fish per day. They have a pretty decent lifespan notwithstanding their smoking habits. But there are a lot of things the japanese do diffently so fish may not be the key factor. In any event, I eat less fish than they do. Perhaps I should eat more.Rodney.> It occurs to me that we don;t have enough info in the endocrine system.> We've touched on the LA and ALA, LOX and COX pathways, in generalities. > We are afraid of the ALA PCa connection, yet not afraid of the EPA which is the next step to produce the EPA equivalents of the prostaglandins, thromboxanes, and leukotrienes of the LA pathway. Are those better? I guess not.> > The idea that EPA somehow is better because it controls the AA pathway is not exactly true, I've found, because the AA pathway is self regulating.> These hormones (eicosanoids) are important because they control the body's systems. They modualte the cardivascular, pulmonary, immune, reproductive, and secretory functions. Yet we have talked little about these in the CR groups. > > The eicosanoids include prostaglandins and trhrmboxanes formed in the cyclooxygenase (COX) pathways, and leukotrienes, hydroxy fatty acids, and lypoxins formed in the lypooxygenase (LOX) pathway.> > In the AA pathway, the COX produces PGE2, PGF2 alpha, PGD2, PGI2, TXA2, and prostacyclins.> The ALA pathway sorta mirrors this producing PGE3, PGF3alpha, PGD3, PGI3, TXA3.> > So my first question is does the ALA pathway produce "better" hormones? My first inclination is to not dose with either LA, ALA, or EPA/DHA and leave out all added fat until I analyze my system and figure out which hormone I need to modulate. (vasopressin)> Perhaps none can be modulated with added pure fatty acids? > > Regards.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Tony,

Ben's (and yours) is a great enlightening website/discussion.

XII. CONCLUSIONS

Optimum dietary benefit from fat for most people would come from a program of reduced total fat, reduced saturated and unessential fat, and increased proportions of omega-3 (relative to omega-6) essential fats. A high omega-3 oil like perilla oil might be a simple remedy for young people -- and the best remedy for smokers. But as most people age, they will benefit most from CLA, GLA, and DHA supplementation combined with antioxidants (especially vitamin E) to protect these polyunsaturated essential fats from oxidation. Fats are an important component of membranes in our hearts, brains, immune cells and most of the other tissues of our bodies. Since we need these fats, it is important to ensure that we have the right kind of fats, that we have enough of them and that we protect them with antioxidants.

As complete as it is, I think there has to be more to the regulation of the human systems.

Don't you think there's more to the hormone story?

Regards.

[ ] Re: endocrinology

JW,Your note discusses the complexity of the body's regulatory system. However, you need to distinguish between the eicosanoids which arebasically hydrocarbons (containing no nitrogen) derived from fatmetabolism, and hormones and enzymes which are peptides or proteinsconsisting of amino acids. Vasopressin, is a peptide consisting of 9amino acids which is also called Antidiuretic Hormone (ADH).Ben Best has a web page on fats that discusses eicosanoids:http://www.benbest.com/health/essfat.htmlThe body reacts to changes in electrolyte balance by releasing peptidehormones such as renin from the kidneys. Many of the body's peptide hormonal auto-regulating systems come inantogonistic pairs, such as the insulin/glucagon mechanism forregulating high/low blood glucose. The release of insulin or glucagonby the pancreas is mediated by consumption of carbohydrates and byfasting, respectively.The external factors influencing hypertension may involve saltconsumption, body weight, exercise, perspiration, muscle tone, etc. Production of NO (nitrous oxide) from L-arginine may also be involvedsince NO is a smooth muscle relaxant which influences arterial walls.Tony===Clin Auton Res. 1991 Jun;1(2):109-14. Regulation of vasopressin release in moderately severe essentialhypertension. Del Bo A, Marabini M, ti A, Zanchetti A. Istituto di Clinica Medica Generale e Terapia Medica, Universitadi Milano, Milan, Italy. Vasopressin plasma concentrations have been measured in two groupsof subjects, 13 moderate essential hypertensive patients withouttarget organ damage and eight control normotensive subjects, beforeand after the assumption of the upright position, and intravenousinfusions of hypotonic saline (0.45% NaCl, 0.25 ml kg-1 min-1 for 1 h)and hypertonic saline (100 mmol NaCl in 50 ml). Plasma vasopressin inrecumbent baseline conditions was not significantly different in thetwo groups. Upright posture and hypertonic challenge augmented, whilehypotonic saline reduced plasma vasopressin levels, which were notsignificantly different between the two groups. Plasma renin activityincreased in the upright position, was reduced by administration ofhypotonic saline and unaffected by hypertonic saline, with nodifferences between the hypertensives and normotensives. Afterhypertonic saline, urinary flow rate and urinary sodium excretion inthe hypertensive group increased to values significantly (p less than0.05) higher than in normotensive subjects. In conclusion our studyexcludes significant alteration of vasopressin regulation in moderateuncomplicated hypertension. In hypertensives although the response ofvasopressin to an osmotic load is preserved, the data suggest that therenal handling of the osmotic load may be altered. PMID: 1822757--------=========--- In , "jwwright" <jwwright@e...>wrote:> It occurs to me that we don;t have enough info in the endocrinesystem.> We've touched on the LA and ALA, LOX and COX pathways, ingeneralities. > We are afraid of the ALA PCa connection, yet not afraid of the EPAwhich is the next step to produce the EPA equivalents of theprostaglandins, thromboxanes, and leukotrienes of the LA pathway. Arethose better? I guess not.> > The idea that EPA somehow is better because it controls the AApathway is not exactly true, I've found, because the AA pathway isself regulating.> These hormones (eicosanoids) are important because they control thebody's systems. They modualte the cardivascular, pulmonary, immune,reproductive, and secretory functions. Yet we have talked little aboutthese in the CR groups. > > The eicosanoids include prostaglandins and trhrmboxanes formed inthe cyclooxygenase (COX) pathways, and leukotrienes, hydroxy fattyacids, and lypoxins formed in the lypooxygenase (LOX) pathway.> > In the AA pathway, the COX produces PGE2, PGF2 alpha, PGD2, PGI2,TXA2, and prostacyclins.> The ALA pathway sorta mirrors this producing PGE3, PGF3alpha, PGD3,PGI3, TXA3.> > So my first question is does the ALA pathway produce "better"hormones? My first inclination is to not dose with either LA, ALA, orEPA/DHA and leave out all added fat until I analyze my system andfigure out which hormone I need to modulate. (vasopressin)> Perhaps none can be modulated with added pure fatty acids? > > Regards.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Tony,

Ben's (and yours) is a great enlightening website/discussion.

XII. CONCLUSIONS

Optimum dietary benefit from fat for most people would come from a program of reduced total fat, reduced saturated and unessential fat, and increased proportions of omega-3 (relative to omega-6) essential fats. A high omega-3 oil like perilla oil might be a simple remedy for young people -- and the best remedy for smokers. But as most people age, they will benefit most from CLA, GLA, and DHA supplementation combined with antioxidants (especially vitamin E) to protect these polyunsaturated essential fats from oxidation. Fats are an important component of membranes in our hearts, brains, immune cells and most of the other tissues of our bodies. Since we need these fats, it is important to ensure that we have the right kind of fats, that we have enough of them and that we protect them with antioxidants.

As complete as it is, I think there has to be more to the regulation of the human systems.

Don't you think there's more to the hormone story?

Regards.

[ ] Re: endocrinology

JW,Your note discusses the complexity of the body's regulatory system. However, you need to distinguish between the eicosanoids which arebasically hydrocarbons (containing no nitrogen) derived from fatmetabolism, and hormones and enzymes which are peptides or proteinsconsisting of amino acids. Vasopressin, is a peptide consisting of 9amino acids which is also called Antidiuretic Hormone (ADH).Ben Best has a web page on fats that discusses eicosanoids:http://www.benbest.com/health/essfat.htmlThe body reacts to changes in electrolyte balance by releasing peptidehormones such as renin from the kidneys. Many of the body's peptide hormonal auto-regulating systems come inantogonistic pairs, such as the insulin/glucagon mechanism forregulating high/low blood glucose. The release of insulin or glucagonby the pancreas is mediated by consumption of carbohydrates and byfasting, respectively.The external factors influencing hypertension may involve saltconsumption, body weight, exercise, perspiration, muscle tone, etc. Production of NO (nitrous oxide) from L-arginine may also be involvedsince NO is a smooth muscle relaxant which influences arterial walls.Tony===Clin Auton Res. 1991 Jun;1(2):109-14. Regulation of vasopressin release in moderately severe essentialhypertension. Del Bo A, Marabini M, ti A, Zanchetti A. Istituto di Clinica Medica Generale e Terapia Medica, Universitadi Milano, Milan, Italy. Vasopressin plasma concentrations have been measured in two groupsof subjects, 13 moderate essential hypertensive patients withouttarget organ damage and eight control normotensive subjects, beforeand after the assumption of the upright position, and intravenousinfusions of hypotonic saline (0.45% NaCl, 0.25 ml kg-1 min-1 for 1 h)and hypertonic saline (100 mmol NaCl in 50 ml). Plasma vasopressin inrecumbent baseline conditions was not significantly different in thetwo groups. Upright posture and hypertonic challenge augmented, whilehypotonic saline reduced plasma vasopressin levels, which were notsignificantly different between the two groups. Plasma renin activityincreased in the upright position, was reduced by administration ofhypotonic saline and unaffected by hypertonic saline, with nodifferences between the hypertensives and normotensives. Afterhypertonic saline, urinary flow rate and urinary sodium excretion inthe hypertensive group increased to values significantly (p less than0.05) higher than in normotensive subjects. In conclusion our studyexcludes significant alteration of vasopressin regulation in moderateuncomplicated hypertension. In hypertensives although the response ofvasopressin to an osmotic load is preserved, the data suggest that therenal handling of the osmotic load may be altered. PMID: 1822757--------=========--- In , "jwwright" <jwwright@e...>wrote:> It occurs to me that we don;t have enough info in the endocrinesystem.> We've touched on the LA and ALA, LOX and COX pathways, ingeneralities. > We are afraid of the ALA PCa connection, yet not afraid of the EPAwhich is the next step to produce the EPA equivalents of theprostaglandins, thromboxanes, and leukotrienes of the LA pathway. Arethose better? I guess not.> > The idea that EPA somehow is better because it controls the AApathway is not exactly true, I've found, because the AA pathway isself regulating.> These hormones (eicosanoids) are important because they control thebody's systems. They modualte the cardivascular, pulmonary, immune,reproductive, and secretory functions. Yet we have talked little aboutthese in the CR groups. > > The eicosanoids include prostaglandins and trhrmboxanes formed inthe cyclooxygenase (COX) pathways, and leukotrienes, hydroxy fattyacids, and lypoxins formed in the lypooxygenase (LOX) pathway.> > In the AA pathway, the COX produces PGE2, PGF2 alpha, PGD2, PGI2,TXA2, and prostacyclins.> The ALA pathway sorta mirrors this producing PGE3, PGF3alpha, PGD3,PGI3, TXA3.> > So my first question is does the ALA pathway produce "better"hormones? My first inclination is to not dose with either LA, ALA, orEPA/DHA and leave out all added fat until I analyze my system andfigure out which hormone I need to modulate. (vasopressin)> Perhaps none can be modulated with added pure fatty acids? > > Regards.

[Guest guest]

Indiana listmates,

Do any of you have recommendations (pro or con) for an endocrinologist in

Indianapolis? We¹re going to be heading to one very soon (like this

Thursday) and I would love to have some guidance if any of you have any

thoughts to offer. We¹ve been assigned to a Dr. DiMeglio whom I know

nothing about.

Caroline G.