Re: Hypertension, prehypertension and normal BP

[Guest guest]

Hi Francesca:

Then perhaps BP is 'weight-sensitive' for some people and not for

others?

But do you remember what your systolic BP was before you started

CRON - assuming that you now weigh less than you used to? We may

each have a higher or lower 'curve' of BP vs. weight. But it could

still be possible that each of us will experience a drop in BP with

loss of weight and an increase with a rise in weight.

But that will not help those who still have elevated BP at their

established-CRON weight. Which, if so in your case, suggests a

genetic factor may be at work.

Since medicinal diuretics seem to be one standard treatment for

hypertension, perhaps the consumption of diuretic foods in place of

anti-diuretic foods would have an effect. Tea, of course, is a well

known diuretic. I need to stop drinking tea for a while and check

what happens to my BP. Perhaps it would rise?

Rodney.

>

> Hi folks:

>

> Jftr, my experience has been that for each pound of weight I have

> lost I have shaved one point off my systolic BP. This may not be

> true for others. I offer it as a one-mouse experience, fwiw.

>

> Rodney.

[Guest guest]

There are sundry causes of high BP. The common elevated BP caused by metabolic syndrome

(poor diet, carrying excess weight, etc ??) does indeed respond quickly and well to losing weight.

As a young adult I watched my 120/80 (normal before the drug companies had a financial incentive),

creep up along with my waistline. I recall numbers as high as 135-140 not uber high but I was only

in my 30-40's so it would surely have gone higher.

While I was also an active exerciser I saw my BP drop from marginal high to marginal low after

losing a few tens of #. So I am of that particular pattern as I suspect are many (most?).

Another group has elevated BP for reasons as far as I can tell are unrelated to weight, activity, diet.

I have a friend who while never as overweight as me when younger, has been a serious CRONie for

years before I ever read the book and while a few years younger he has much higher BP than I. This

is surely a genetic difference.

I am not smart enough to know if the medicine is worse than the illness for moderate hypertension,

and there are perhaps dietary interventions that can make some difference. As evidenced by JWs

attention to sodium etc. We can't expect one shoe to fit us all and must manage our personal

metrics independent of general advice.

FWIW on Letterman last night he ran a bit where they pulled a man off the sidewalk and compared his

BP to our president. Bush was a respectable 110 or so while the man off the street was over 150.

Perhaps this was another political dirty trick, but probably not all that rare as the man declined to give his

weight, and the president lost 8# since his last physical...

Losing weight is usually very good but perhaps not the answer for everything that ails us. ( I deleted a

funny, to me joke here because it wasn't in good taste).

JR

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Francesca SkeltonSent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Hypertension, prehypertension and normalBPRod: I weigh a scant 110 lbs (at 5'4") - even less than when the article was published last year and less than the pictures of me on our website.. Yet my BP is not exceptionally low. on 8/3/2005 8:27 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

Hi folks:Jftr, my experience has been that for each pound of weight I have lost I have shaved one point off my systolic BP. This may not be true for others. I offer it as a one-mouse experience, fwiw.Rodney.

[Guest guest]

There are sundry causes of high BP. The common elevated BP caused by metabolic syndrome

(poor diet, carrying excess weight, etc ??) does indeed respond quickly and well to losing weight.

As a young adult I watched my 120/80 (normal before the drug companies had a financial incentive),

creep up along with my waistline. I recall numbers as high as 135-140 not uber high but I was only

in my 30-40's so it would surely have gone higher.

While I was also an active exerciser I saw my BP drop from marginal high to marginal low after

losing a few tens of #. So I am of that particular pattern as I suspect are many (most?).

Another group has elevated BP for reasons as far as I can tell are unrelated to weight, activity, diet.

I have a friend who while never as overweight as me when younger, has been a serious CRONie for

years before I ever read the book and while a few years younger he has much higher BP than I. This

is surely a genetic difference.

I am not smart enough to know if the medicine is worse than the illness for moderate hypertension,

and there are perhaps dietary interventions that can make some difference. As evidenced by JWs

attention to sodium etc. We can't expect one shoe to fit us all and must manage our personal

metrics independent of general advice.

FWIW on Letterman last night he ran a bit where they pulled a man off the sidewalk and compared his

BP to our president. Bush was a respectable 110 or so while the man off the street was over 150.

Perhaps this was another political dirty trick, but probably not all that rare as the man declined to give his

weight, and the president lost 8# since his last physical...

Losing weight is usually very good but perhaps not the answer for everything that ails us. ( I deleted a

funny, to me joke here because it wasn't in good taste).

JR

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Francesca SkeltonSent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Hypertension, prehypertension and normalBPRod: I weigh a scant 110 lbs (at 5'4") - even less than when the article was published last year and less than the pictures of me on our website.. Yet my BP is not exceptionally low. on 8/3/2005 8:27 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

Hi folks:Jftr, my experience has been that for each pound of weight I have lost I have shaved one point off my systolic BP. This may not be true for others. I offer it as a one-mouse experience, fwiw.Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Yes if anything lower. I was younger then.

I suspect I eat too much salt via canned fish for example, like salmon. As per JW's advice I do rinse it these days though.

on 8/3/2005 9:31 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

Hi Francesca:

Then perhaps BP is 'weight-sensitive' for some people and not for

others?

But do you remember what your systolic BP was before you started

CRON - assuming that you now weigh less than you used to? We may

each have a higher or lower 'curve' of BP vs. weight. But it could

still be possible that each of us will experience a drop in BP with

loss of weight and an increase with a rise in weight.

[Guest guest]

Yes if anything lower. I was younger then.

I suspect I eat too much salt via canned fish for example, like salmon. As per JW's advice I do rinse it these days though.

on 8/3/2005 9:31 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

Hi Francesca:

Then perhaps BP is 'weight-sensitive' for some people and not for

others?

But do you remember what your systolic BP was before you started

CRON - assuming that you now weigh less than you used to? We may

each have a higher or lower 'curve' of BP vs. weight. But it could

still be possible that each of us will experience a drop in BP with

loss of weight and an increase with a rise in weight.

[Guest guest]

My mother had HBP and was on meds (as was everyone in my family of origin except for me). She was thin. Nevertheless she lived to a ripe old age.

on 8/3/2005 9:38 PM, at crjohnr@... wrote:

Another group has elevated BP for reasons as far as I can tell are unrelated to weight, activity, diet.

I have a friend who while never as overweight as me when younger, has been a serious CRONie for

years before I ever read the book and while a few years younger he has much higher BP than I. This

is surely a genetic difference.

[Guest guest]

My mother had HBP and was on meds (as was everyone in my family of origin except for me). She was thin. Nevertheless she lived to a ripe old age.

on 8/3/2005 9:38 PM, at crjohnr@... wrote:

Another group has elevated BP for reasons as far as I can tell are unrelated to weight, activity, diet.

I have a friend who while never as overweight as me when younger, has been a serious CRONie for

years before I ever read the book and while a few years younger he has much higher BP than I. This

is surely a genetic difference.

[Guest guest]

I wonder what a Pritikin or Ornish menu would do for their high(er) BP?

I'd also bet 30 mins of effort daily on the treadmill would help bring

about further reductions.

>

>

> Hi folks:

>

> Jftr, my experience has been that for each pound of weight I have

> lost I have shaved one point off my systolic BP. This may not be

> true for others. I offer it as a one-mouse experience, fwiw.

>

> Rodney.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder what a Pritikin or Ornish menu would do for their high(er) BP?

I'd also bet 30 mins of effort daily on the treadmill would help bring

about further reductions.

>

>

> Hi folks:

>

> Jftr, my experience has been that for each pound of weight I have

> lost I have shaved one point off my systolic BP. This may not be

> true for others. I offer it as a one-mouse experience, fwiw.

>

> Rodney.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mine was 110/60 for years and then jumped suddenly to 135/80. I lost

the 15 lbs I'd gained during 6 months of chemotherapy and the BP

remained high. I've always exercised and the amount of exercise

never changed, although the type of exercise did change because I

developed severe neuromas and couldn't run or racewalk any more.

I quit taking Celebrex after neuroma removal and the BP returned to

normal. Watch out for COX-2 inhibitors.

Diane

> >

> >

> > Hi folks:

> >

> > Jftr, my experience has been that for each pound of weight I

have

> > lost I have shaved one point off my systolic BP. This may

not be

> > true for others. I offer it as a one-mouse experience, fwiw.

> >

> > Rodney.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Mine was 110/60 for years and then jumped suddenly to 135/80. I lost

the 15 lbs I'd gained during 6 months of chemotherapy and the BP

remained high. I've always exercised and the amount of exercise

never changed, although the type of exercise did change because I

developed severe neuromas and couldn't run or racewalk any more.

I quit taking Celebrex after neuroma removal and the BP returned to

normal. Watch out for COX-2 inhibitors.

Diane

> >

> >

> > Hi folks:

> >

> > Jftr, my experience has been that for each pound of weight I

have

> > lost I have shaved one point off my systolic BP. This may

not be

> > true for others. I offer it as a one-mouse experience, fwiw.

> >

> > Rodney.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Rodney, some people are grossly overweight and do not have HTN.

The people who have HTN can "treat" it by losing weight down to a point where it levels off.

Obviously, a body with less weight requires slightly less BP, everything else being equal, but can't mix all the scenarios into one.

And a heavy person with BP driven by kidney failure is also a diff case.

If Fran has say 120/80 at 110#, I'd call that high, since my 150# wife is <120/<75, but my wife does not have the thing that causes essential HTN.

Regards.

[ ] Re: Hypertension, prehypertension and normal BP

Hi Francesca:Then perhaps BP is 'weight-sensitive' for some people and not for others?But do you remember what your systolic BP was before you started CRON - assuming that you now weigh less than you used to? We may each have a higher or lower 'curve' of BP vs. weight. But it could still be possible that each of us will experience a drop in BP with loss of weight and an increase with a rise in weight.But that will not help those who still have elevated BP at their established-CRON weight. Which, if so in your case, suggests a genetic factor may be at work.Since medicinal diuretics seem to be one standard treatment for hypertension, perhaps the consumption of diuretic foods in place of anti-diuretic foods would have an effect. Tea, of course, is a well known diuretic. I need to stop drinking tea for a while and check what happens to my BP. Perhaps it would rise?Rodney.> > Hi folks:> > Jftr, my experience has been that for each pound of weight I have> lost I have shaved one point off my systolic BP. This may not be> true for others. I offer it as a one-mouse experience, fwiw.> > Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Rodney, some people are grossly overweight and do not have HTN.

The people who have HTN can "treat" it by losing weight down to a point where it levels off.

Obviously, a body with less weight requires slightly less BP, everything else being equal, but can't mix all the scenarios into one.

And a heavy person with BP driven by kidney failure is also a diff case.

If Fran has say 120/80 at 110#, I'd call that high, since my 150# wife is <120/<75, but my wife does not have the thing that causes essential HTN.

Regards.

[ ] Re: Hypertension, prehypertension and normal BP

Hi Francesca:Then perhaps BP is 'weight-sensitive' for some people and not for others?But do you remember what your systolic BP was before you started CRON - assuming that you now weigh less than you used to? We may each have a higher or lower 'curve' of BP vs. weight. But it could still be possible that each of us will experience a drop in BP with loss of weight and an increase with a rise in weight.But that will not help those who still have elevated BP at their established-CRON weight. Which, if so in your case, suggests a genetic factor may be at work.Since medicinal diuretics seem to be one standard treatment for hypertension, perhaps the consumption of diuretic foods in place of anti-diuretic foods would have an effect. Tea, of course, is a well known diuretic. I need to stop drinking tea for a while and check what happens to my BP. Perhaps it would rise?Rodney.> > Hi folks:> > Jftr, my experience has been that for each pound of weight I have> lost I have shaved one point off my systolic BP. This may not be> true for others. I offer it as a one-mouse experience, fwiw.> > Rodney.

[Guest guest]

>>I wonder what a Pritikin or Ornish menu would do for their high(er) BP?

Here is an article from my collegue at Pritikin...

http://www.foodandhealth.com/cpecourses/salt_new.php

Regards

jeff

[Guest guest]

>>I wonder what a Pritikin or Ornish menu would do for their high(er) BP?

Here is an article from my collegue at Pritikin...

http://www.foodandhealth.com/cpecourses/salt_new.php

Regards

jeff

[Guest guest]

I do an Ornish. Ornish is not strong on sodium restriction. Low fat diet does lower BP, as does exercise, and eliminating allergens. But the basic cause of essential HTN is unknown so we don't know what to attack.

Apply all we know, and the best we can hope for is get it under control. We can bound it, but it doesn't go away.

Regards.

[ ] Re: Hypertension, prehypertension and normal BP

I wonder what a Pritikin or Ornish menu would do for their high(er) BP? I'd also bet 30 mins of effort daily on the treadmill would help bringabout further reductions.

[Guest guest]

I do an Ornish. Ornish is not strong on sodium restriction. Low fat diet does lower BP, as does exercise, and eliminating allergens. But the basic cause of essential HTN is unknown so we don't know what to attack.

Apply all we know, and the best we can hope for is get it under control. We can bound it, but it doesn't go away.

Regards.

[ ] Re: Hypertension, prehypertension and normal BP

I wonder what a Pritikin or Ornish menu would do for their high(er) BP? I'd also bet 30 mins of effort daily on the treadmill would help bringabout further reductions.

[Guest guest]

NSAIDS can inflame the kidney.

[ ] Re: Hypertension, prehypertension and normal BP

Mine was 110/60 for years and then jumped suddenly to 135/80. I lostthe 15 lbs I'd gained during 6 months of chemotherapy and the BPremained high. I've always exercised and the amount of exercisenever changed, although the type of exercise did change because Ideveloped severe neuromas and couldn't run or racewalk any more. I quit taking Celebrex after neuroma removal and the BP returned tonormal. Watch out for COX-2 inhibitors.Diane

[Guest guest]

NSAIDS can inflame the kidney.

[ ] Re: Hypertension, prehypertension and normal BP

Mine was 110/60 for years and then jumped suddenly to 135/80. I lostthe 15 lbs I'd gained during 6 months of chemotherapy and the BPremained high. I've always exercised and the amount of exercisenever changed, although the type of exercise did change because Ideveloped severe neuromas and couldn't run or racewalk any more. I quit taking Celebrex after neuroma removal and the BP returned tonormal. Watch out for COX-2 inhibitors.Diane

[Guest guest]

Since my friend is already a runner (beats me by minutes in 10ks)

you could easily lose that bet... General advice only works in general.

JW regarding the Wal-Mart salmon being too salty, not salty enough to

keep me topped off.

Different individuals have different needs.

JR

[ ] Re: Hypertension, prehypertension and normal

BP

I wonder what a Pritikin or Ornish menu would do for their high(er) BP?

I'd also bet 30 mins of effort daily on the treadmill would help bring

about further reductions.

>

>

> Hi folks:

>

> Jftr, my experience has been that for each pound of weight I have

> lost I have shaved one point off my systolic BP. This may not be

> true for others. I offer it as a one-mouse experience, fwiw.

>

> Rodney.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Since my friend is already a runner (beats me by minutes in 10ks)

you could easily lose that bet... General advice only works in general.

JW regarding the Wal-Mart salmon being too salty, not salty enough to

keep me topped off.

Different individuals have different needs.

JR

[ ] Re: Hypertension, prehypertension and normal

BP

I wonder what a Pritikin or Ornish menu would do for their high(er) BP?

I'd also bet 30 mins of effort daily on the treadmill would help bring

about further reductions.

>

>

> Hi folks:

>

> Jftr, my experience has been that for each pound of weight I have

> lost I have shaved one point off my systolic BP. This may not be

> true for others. I offer it as a one-mouse experience, fwiw.

>

> Rodney.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I just took my BP after a 3 minute " rest " . What a difference! Took 3 measurements. One was " normal " : 120/70. The other two were 100/70 - putting me in the CRONIE ballpark (and eliminating PP worries). Perhaps I have been concerned for naught.

As to exercise, I now spend about 20 minutes walking daily and about 45 minutes doing yoga. Yoga is probably even better for HBP than treadmill or aerobic exercise/

on 8/4/2005 8:32 AM, jwwright at jwwright@... wrote:

If Fran has say 120/80 at 110#, I'd call that high, since my 150# wife is <120/<75, but my wife does not have the thing that causes essential HTN.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

I just took my BP after a 3 minute " rest " . What a difference! Took 3 measurements. One was " normal " : 120/70. The other two were 100/70 - putting me in the CRONIE ballpark (and eliminating PP worries). Perhaps I have been concerned for naught.

As to exercise, I now spend about 20 minutes walking daily and about 45 minutes doing yoga. Yoga is probably even better for HBP than treadmill or aerobic exercise/

on 8/4/2005 8:32 AM, jwwright at jwwright@... wrote:

If Fran has say 120/80 at 110#, I'd call that high, since my 150# wife is <120/<75, but my wife does not have the thing that causes essential HTN.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

Here's the article I was referring to.

Clin Pharmacol Ther. 2005 May;77(5):437-50.

Renal effects of the cyclooxygenase-inhibiting nitric oxide donator AZD3582 compared with rofecoxib and naproxen during normal and low sodium intake.

Huledal G, Jonzon B, Malmenas M, Hedman A, Andersson LI, Odlind B, Brater DC.

Experimental Medicine, AstraZeneca R & D Sodertalje, SE-151 85 Sodertalje, Sweden. gunilla.huledal@...

BACKGROUND: Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) inhibit cyclooxygenase (COX) and can thereby reduce renal function, especially with respect to solute excretion and renal perfusion. AZD3582 [4-(nitrooxy)butyl-(2S)-2-(6-methoxy-2-naphthyl)propanoate] is a COX-inhibiting nitric oxide donator. Donation of nitric oxide by AZD3582 could preserve blood flow and thereby counteract the deleterious effects of COX inhibition in the gastrointestinal tract and possibly in other organ systems, including the kidney. The aim of this single-dose study was to assess the hypothesis that AZD3582 would not adversely affect renal function compared with NSAIDs. METHODS: In a parallel, randomized, double-blind fashion, a total of 60 healthy subjects (age range, 20-44 years) received 2 single doses of 750 mg AZD3582, 1500 mg AZD3582, 50 mg rofecoxib, 500 mg naproxen, or placebo (n = 12 per group). The first dose was given after a 5-day normal-sodium diet (150 mmol/d), and the second was given after a consecutive 3-day low-sodium diet (10 mmol/d). Urinary sodium excretion during normal sodium intake and glomerular filtration rate(GFR) (assessed by iohexol clearance) during sodium depletion were the primary variables measured. RESULTS: Urinary sodium excretion was reduced in all active treatment groups (maximal reduction of approximately 11 mmol/h during normal sodium intake, P < .05 versus placebo for all groups). GFR was also reduced in all active treatment groups. In sodium-depleted subjects, the mean (SD) maximal reduction in GFR during 0 to 6 hours for 750 mg AZD3582, 1500 mg AZD3582, 50 mg rofecoxib, and 500 mg naproxen was 28.1 mL/min (13.5 mL/min), 33.7 mL/min (23.3 mL/min), 25.2 mL/min (29.2 mL/min), and 41.7 mL/min (30.7 mL/min), respectively, with a statistically significant difference between 500 mg naproxen and placebo. Relative changes in sodium excretion and GFR were similar during normal sodium intake and sodium depletion during active treatment. CONCLUSION: The renal effects of 750 mg and 1500 mg AZD3582 were similar to those of 500 mg naproxen and 50 mg rofecoxib. Thus the potential for nitric oxide donation to create a renal-sparing agent was not found for AZD3582PMID: 15900289 {I infer low sodium can effect GFR.}

[ ] Re: Hypertension, prehypertension and normal BP

Mine was 110/60 for years and then jumped suddenly to 135/80. I lostthe 15 lbs I'd gained during 6 months of chemotherapy and the BPremained high. I've always exercised and the amount of exercisenever changed, although the type of exercise did change because Ideveloped severe neuromas and couldn't run or racewalk any more. I quit taking Celebrex after neuroma removal and the BP returned tonormal. Watch out for COX-2 inhibitors.Diane

[Guest guest]

Here's the article I was referring to.

Clin Pharmacol Ther. 2005 May;77(5):437-50.

Renal effects of the cyclooxygenase-inhibiting nitric oxide donator AZD3582 compared with rofecoxib and naproxen during normal and low sodium intake.

Huledal G, Jonzon B, Malmenas M, Hedman A, Andersson LI, Odlind B, Brater DC.

Experimental Medicine, AstraZeneca R & D Sodertalje, SE-151 85 Sodertalje, Sweden. gunilla.huledal@...

BACKGROUND: Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) inhibit cyclooxygenase (COX) and can thereby reduce renal function, especially with respect to solute excretion and renal perfusion. AZD3582 [4-(nitrooxy)butyl-(2S)-2-(6-methoxy-2-naphthyl)propanoate] is a COX-inhibiting nitric oxide donator. Donation of nitric oxide by AZD3582 could preserve blood flow and thereby counteract the deleterious effects of COX inhibition in the gastrointestinal tract and possibly in other organ systems, including the kidney. The aim of this single-dose study was to assess the hypothesis that AZD3582 would not adversely affect renal function compared with NSAIDs. METHODS: In a parallel, randomized, double-blind fashion, a total of 60 healthy subjects (age range, 20-44 years) received 2 single doses of 750 mg AZD3582, 1500 mg AZD3582, 50 mg rofecoxib, 500 mg naproxen, or placebo (n = 12 per group). The first dose was given after a 5-day normal-sodium diet (150 mmol/d), and the second was given after a consecutive 3-day low-sodium diet (10 mmol/d). Urinary sodium excretion during normal sodium intake and glomerular filtration rate(GFR) (assessed by iohexol clearance) during sodium depletion were the primary variables measured. RESULTS: Urinary sodium excretion was reduced in all active treatment groups (maximal reduction of approximately 11 mmol/h during normal sodium intake, P < .05 versus placebo for all groups). GFR was also reduced in all active treatment groups. In sodium-depleted subjects, the mean (SD) maximal reduction in GFR during 0 to 6 hours for 750 mg AZD3582, 1500 mg AZD3582, 50 mg rofecoxib, and 500 mg naproxen was 28.1 mL/min (13.5 mL/min), 33.7 mL/min (23.3 mL/min), 25.2 mL/min (29.2 mL/min), and 41.7 mL/min (30.7 mL/min), respectively, with a statistically significant difference between 500 mg naproxen and placebo. Relative changes in sodium excretion and GFR were similar during normal sodium intake and sodium depletion during active treatment. CONCLUSION: The renal effects of 750 mg and 1500 mg AZD3582 were similar to those of 500 mg naproxen and 50 mg rofecoxib. Thus the potential for nitric oxide donation to create a renal-sparing agent was not found for AZD3582PMID: 15900289 {I infer low sodium can effect GFR.}

[ ] Re: Hypertension, prehypertension and normal BP

Mine was 110/60 for years and then jumped suddenly to 135/80. I lostthe 15 lbs I'd gained during 6 months of chemotherapy and the BPremained high. I've always exercised and the amount of exercisenever changed, although the type of exercise did change because Ideveloped severe neuromas and couldn't run or racewalk any more. I quit taking Celebrex after neuroma removal and the BP returned tonormal. Watch out for COX-2 inhibitors.Diane