Re: Factors Affecting Heart Heart Disease Rates

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...>

wrote:

> Hi folks:

>

> Here is an amazing set of data!!! If I have a few hours to spare

> some time perhaps I will get around to analyzing what it means.

Tony should like it!

>

> http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/116-1168/295/table1.html

>

> Rodney.

==========

Does it make sense that the highest consumption of tobacco per capita

(Japan) should be associated with the smallest ischemic heart disease

(IHD) rate? The highest consumption of wine (France) has the

second lowest IHD rate.

Increased consumption of milk and saturated fat have positive

associations with IHD. So, Japan which has the greatest consumption

of tobacco, but the least consumption of milk has the lowest IHD rate.

I suppose that in Japan they die of lung cancer before the heart

disease gets them.

Tony

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...>

wrote:

> Hi folks:

>

> Here is an amazing set of data!!! If I have a few hours to spare

> some time perhaps I will get around to analyzing what it means.

Tony should like it!

>

> http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/116-1168/295/table1.html

>

> Rodney.

==========

Does it make sense that the highest consumption of tobacco per capita

(Japan) should be associated with the smallest ischemic heart disease

(IHD) rate? The highest consumption of wine (France) has the

second lowest IHD rate.

Increased consumption of milk and saturated fat have positive

associations with IHD. So, Japan which has the greatest consumption

of tobacco, but the least consumption of milk has the lowest IHD rate.

I suppose that in Japan they die of lung cancer before the heart

disease gets them.

Tony

[Guest guest]

Hi Tony:

" Does it make sense ........ ? " Well there are only two

possibilities: either the data are false (possible) or the data are

basicly accurate. If the data are correct then it must make sense

because that is the way it is.

This is a somewhat complex problem. There are many factors involved

in IHD. Evidently cigarette smoking is not the absolutely most

important factor that, all on its own, can cause massive heart

disease.

The japanese have many excellent health characteristics that,

apparently, are able to overwhelm the effect of cigarettes. They

have the best 'atherogenic index' (whatever that is. Does anyone

here know?); they consume the least myristic acid; they have by far

the best Hegsted score; by far the lowest saturated fat intake;

consume by far the lowest amount of milk and cream protein per

capita; and, apart from the small islands of Jersey and Guernsey,

have the lowest intake of A1 casein per capita.

So it seems logical to conclude that all those benefits taken

together manage to overwhelm the influence of excessive smoking.

Similarly, as regards wine, all the bad behaviours the french have

can, to a considerable extent, be offset by their remarkable wine

consumption. As regards bad behaviours, only six countries on the

list have worse Hegsted scores than France - yet France is second

best on the list. So how important is the Hegsted score? It

certainly isn't overwhelmingly the most important factor,

apparently. The only other variable apart from wine where the french

show a respectable performance is in milk, cream, and A1

protein ......... which is interesting.

But the fact the japanese drink hardly any wine suggests that if your

nutrition behaviours are generally healthy, like those of the

japanese, wine consumption is not a requirement for decent IHD

health. This suggests that the huge (49%) reduction in mortality

associated with wine consumption in the Danish study, may be because

of generally poor nutrition habits in the population studied - which

wine was able to reverse, at least partially.

As I said, if I get a few days where I don't know what to do with my

time I would like to analyze these data to come up with conclusions

about the relative importance of the contributions of each of these

factors to IHD, in numerical terms. But I am not going to be doing

that any time soon, based on my present schedule.

Rodney.

> > Hi folks:

> >

> > Here is an amazing set of data!!! If I have a few hours to spare

> > some time perhaps I will get around to analyzing what it means.

> Tony should like it!

> >

> > http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/116-1168/295/table1.html

> >

> > Rodney.

>

> ==========

>

> Does it make sense that the highest consumption of tobacco per

capita

> (Japan) should be associated with the smallest ischemic heart

disease

> (IHD) rate? The highest consumption of wine (France) has the

> second lowest IHD rate.

>

> Increased consumption of milk and saturated fat have positive

> associations with IHD. So, Japan which has the greatest consumption

> of tobacco, but the least consumption of milk has the lowest IHD

rate.

> I suppose that in Japan they die of lung cancer before the heart

> disease gets them.

>

> Tony

[Guest guest]

Hi Tony:

" Does it make sense ........ ? " Well there are only two

possibilities: either the data are false (possible) or the data are

basicly accurate. If the data are correct then it must make sense

because that is the way it is.

This is a somewhat complex problem. There are many factors involved

in IHD. Evidently cigarette smoking is not the absolutely most

important factor that, all on its own, can cause massive heart

disease.

The japanese have many excellent health characteristics that,

apparently, are able to overwhelm the effect of cigarettes. They

have the best 'atherogenic index' (whatever that is. Does anyone

here know?); they consume the least myristic acid; they have by far

the best Hegsted score; by far the lowest saturated fat intake;

consume by far the lowest amount of milk and cream protein per

capita; and, apart from the small islands of Jersey and Guernsey,

have the lowest intake of A1 casein per capita.

So it seems logical to conclude that all those benefits taken

together manage to overwhelm the influence of excessive smoking.

Similarly, as regards wine, all the bad behaviours the french have

can, to a considerable extent, be offset by their remarkable wine

consumption. As regards bad behaviours, only six countries on the

list have worse Hegsted scores than France - yet France is second

best on the list. So how important is the Hegsted score? It

certainly isn't overwhelmingly the most important factor,

apparently. The only other variable apart from wine where the french

show a respectable performance is in milk, cream, and A1

protein ......... which is interesting.

But the fact the japanese drink hardly any wine suggests that if your

nutrition behaviours are generally healthy, like those of the

japanese, wine consumption is not a requirement for decent IHD

health. This suggests that the huge (49%) reduction in mortality

associated with wine consumption in the Danish study, may be because

of generally poor nutrition habits in the population studied - which

wine was able to reverse, at least partially.

As I said, if I get a few days where I don't know what to do with my

time I would like to analyze these data to come up with conclusions

about the relative importance of the contributions of each of these

factors to IHD, in numerical terms. But I am not going to be doing

that any time soon, based on my present schedule.

Rodney.

> > Hi folks:

> >

> > Here is an amazing set of data!!! If I have a few hours to spare

> > some time perhaps I will get around to analyzing what it means.

> Tony should like it!

> >

> > http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/116-1168/295/table1.html

> >

> > Rodney.

>

> ==========

>

> Does it make sense that the highest consumption of tobacco per

capita

> (Japan) should be associated with the smallest ischemic heart

disease

> (IHD) rate? The highest consumption of wine (France) has the

> second lowest IHD rate.

>

> Increased consumption of milk and saturated fat have positive

> associations with IHD. So, Japan which has the greatest consumption

> of tobacco, but the least consumption of milk has the lowest IHD

rate.

> I suppose that in Japan they die of lung cancer before the heart

> disease gets them.

>

> Tony

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

So this point, below, again raises the issue as to whether studies

done on the general population will have relevance to all populations

in general. For the case below the issue is " does wine benefit

people who are on a very healthy diet? " The japanese example

suggests the answer may be " No " .

For us the issue is " how many of these studies we read, almost all of

which are done on ad libbers, have any relevance for people on CR? " .

The answer may be " Not many " . Which is why it is about time

investigators started enlisting subjects (mice, hamsters .....) on

40% CR as their control groups.

Rodney.

--- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...>

wrote:

> But the fact the japanese drink hardly any wine suggests that if

your

> nutrition behaviours are generally healthy, like those of the

> japanese, wine consumption is not a requirement for decent IHD

> health. This suggests that the huge (49%) reduction in mortality

> associated with wine consumption in the Danish study, may be

because

> of generally poor nutrition habits in the population studied -

which

> wine was able to reverse, at least partially.

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

So this point, below, again raises the issue as to whether studies

done on the general population will have relevance to all populations

in general. For the case below the issue is " does wine benefit

people who are on a very healthy diet? " The japanese example

suggests the answer may be " No " .

For us the issue is " how many of these studies we read, almost all of

which are done on ad libbers, have any relevance for people on CR? " .

The answer may be " Not many " . Which is why it is about time

investigators started enlisting subjects (mice, hamsters .....) on

40% CR as their control groups.

Rodney.

--- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...>

wrote:

> But the fact the japanese drink hardly any wine suggests that if

your

> nutrition behaviours are generally healthy, like those of the

> japanese, wine consumption is not a requirement for decent IHD

> health. This suggests that the huge (49%) reduction in mortality

> associated with wine consumption in the Danish study, may be

because

> of generally poor nutrition habits in the population studied -

which

> wine was able to reverse, at least partially.

[Guest guest]

copy that chart into excel

correlation (correl function in excel):

Tobacco

Alcohol

Wine

Athero-genic index

Myrist-ic fat

Hegsted score

Satur-ated fat

Milk & cream protein /capita

A1/ß in milk & cream

A1/

IHD

products minus cigars

C14.0

capita

35–64 years*

1990

1990

1990

1990

1990

1990

1990

1990

1990

1990

1995

g/adult/ year

g/day

g/ day

% E

g/100dl

% E

g/day

fraction

g/day

mortality per 100 000

-0.3834

-0.1494

-0.4879

0.4979

0.4832

0.4219

0.3739

0.6043

0.4326

0.7560

1

Comparing mortality to each of the other factors all countries.

Recognize that lotsa things like cake, ice cream, sauces, use milk.

Also the milk in other countries may be standardized to say 5% butterfat where ours is 4%. Whole milk sold now is 3.15% which may account for some of the diffs in fat correlation.

Lower mortality may have something to do with breed.

Table 1. Dairy cow population and production per cow and total milk production in the U.S.^a Average production per cowYear Total cows^b Milk Fat Fat Total Milk (lb) (%) (lb) (lb) 1940 23,671,000 4,622 3.97 183 109,412,000,0001970 12,000,000 9,751 3.66 357 117,007,000,0001990 10,169,000 14,646 3.65 534 148,284,000,000 1991^c 9,918,000 14,868 3.66 544 148,534,000,000 a^ Data reported by National Agricultural Statistics Service, USDA. b^ Data obtained at the end of the year. Counts taken at the beginning of the year will differ (see Table 10). c^ Estimated.Table 2. Registration of animals by dairy breed associations.* Brown Milking Red & Year Ayrshire Swiss Guernsey Holstein Jersey Shorthorn White Total1900 2,080 1,538 5,108 12,518 21,2441991 8,234 11,751 12,340 360,133 57,627 2,578 5,934 458,597*-Data reported by breed associations.Table 3. Percentage of total registered by breed* Brown Milking Red & Year Ayrshire Swiss Guernsey Holstein Jersey Shorthorn White 1900 9.8 7.2 24.0 58.91970 3.8 4.1 11.0 70.5 9.3 1.41990 1.6 2.4 2.8 80.4 10.9 <1.0 1.4 1991 1.8 2.6 2.7 78.5 12.6 <1.0 1.3

Regards.

[ ] Factors Affecting Heart Heart Disease Rates

Hi folks:Here is an amazing set of data!!! If I have a few hours to spare some time perhaps I will get around to analyzing what it means. Tony should like it!http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/116-1168/295/table1.htmlRodney.

[Guest guest]

copy that chart into excel

correlation (correl function in excel):

Tobacco

Alcohol

Wine

Athero-genic index

Myrist-ic fat

Hegsted score

Satur-ated fat

Milk & cream protein /capita

A1/ß in milk & cream

A1/

IHD

products minus cigars

C14.0

capita

35–64 years*

1990

1990

1990

1990

1990

1990

1990

1990

1990

1990

1995

g/adult/ year

g/day

g/ day

% E

g/100dl

% E

g/day

fraction

g/day

mortality per 100 000

-0.3834

-0.1494

-0.4879

0.4979

0.4832

0.4219

0.3739

0.6043

0.4326

0.7560

1

Comparing mortality to each of the other factors all countries.

Recognize that lotsa things like cake, ice cream, sauces, use milk.

Also the milk in other countries may be standardized to say 5% butterfat where ours is 4%. Whole milk sold now is 3.15% which may account for some of the diffs in fat correlation.

Lower mortality may have something to do with breed.

Table 1. Dairy cow population and production per cow and total milk production in the U.S.^a Average production per cowYear Total cows^b Milk Fat Fat Total Milk (lb) (%) (lb) (lb) 1940 23,671,000 4,622 3.97 183 109,412,000,0001970 12,000,000 9,751 3.66 357 117,007,000,0001990 10,169,000 14,646 3.65 534 148,284,000,000 1991^c 9,918,000 14,868 3.66 544 148,534,000,000 a^ Data reported by National Agricultural Statistics Service, USDA. b^ Data obtained at the end of the year. Counts taken at the beginning of the year will differ (see Table 10). c^ Estimated.Table 2. Registration of animals by dairy breed associations.* Brown Milking Red & Year Ayrshire Swiss Guernsey Holstein Jersey Shorthorn White Total1900 2,080 1,538 5,108 12,518 21,2441991 8,234 11,751 12,340 360,133 57,627 2,578 5,934 458,597*-Data reported by breed associations.Table 3. Percentage of total registered by breed* Brown Milking Red & Year Ayrshire Swiss Guernsey Holstein Jersey Shorthorn White 1900 9.8 7.2 24.0 58.91970 3.8 4.1 11.0 70.5 9.3 1.41990 1.6 2.4 2.8 80.4 10.9 <1.0 1.4 1991 1.8 2.6 2.7 78.5 12.6 <1.0 1.3

Regards.

[ ] Factors Affecting Heart Heart Disease Rates

Hi folks:Here is an amazing set of data!!! If I have a few hours to spare some time perhaps I will get around to analyzing what it means. Tony should like it!http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/116-1168/295/table1.htmlRodney.