Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Hi JW: So is this saying in effect that CR, because of its effect of reducing IGF-1, increases lifespan but reduces bone strength? Rodney. --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...> wrote: > Worthy of note. > {CRers report lower IGF-1 as I recall.} > > Larsen: Textbook of Endocrinology, 10th ed., > Insulin-like Growth Factors > IGFs increase bone cell replication, matrix synthesis, and bone formation.[52] Both IGF-I and IGF-II are synthesized by bone cells and stored in bone matrix. More IGF-II is stored in human bone, but IGF-I is a more potent stimulator of osteoblasts. Binding of IGF-I and IGF-II to matrix may be mediated by specific IGF-binding proteins. Five of the six known binding proteins have been identified in bone, and these both inhibit and enhance IGF responses. Because PTH and PGE2 increase and glucocorticoids decrease skeletal IGF-I synthesis, IGFs may mediate the effects of these hormones on bone growth. IGF-I and its binding proteins may also stimulate osteoclast formation.[53] [54] > > 53. Hill PA, Reynolds JJ, Meikle MC. Osteoblasts mediate insulin- like growth factor I and II stimulation of osteoclast formation and function. Endocrinology 1995; 136:124-131. > > 54. Kanatani M, Sugimoto T, Nishiyama K, et al. Stimulatory effect of insulin-like growth factor binding protein-5 on mouse osteoclast formation and osteoclastic bone-resorbing activity. J Bone Miner Res 2000; 15:902-910. > > If I interpret that correctly, the IGF-1 in milk, if I can absorb it may be anti osteoporosis? Notice that PGE2 increases skeletal IGF- 1 synthesis. > > Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Hi JW: So is this saying in effect that CR, because of its effect of reducing IGF-1, increases lifespan but reduces bone strength? Rodney. --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...> wrote: > Worthy of note. > {CRers report lower IGF-1 as I recall.} > > Larsen: Textbook of Endocrinology, 10th ed., > Insulin-like Growth Factors > IGFs increase bone cell replication, matrix synthesis, and bone formation.[52] Both IGF-I and IGF-II are synthesized by bone cells and stored in bone matrix. More IGF-II is stored in human bone, but IGF-I is a more potent stimulator of osteoblasts. Binding of IGF-I and IGF-II to matrix may be mediated by specific IGF-binding proteins. Five of the six known binding proteins have been identified in bone, and these both inhibit and enhance IGF responses. Because PTH and PGE2 increase and glucocorticoids decrease skeletal IGF-I synthesis, IGFs may mediate the effects of these hormones on bone growth. IGF-I and its binding proteins may also stimulate osteoclast formation.[53] [54] > > 53. Hill PA, Reynolds JJ, Meikle MC. Osteoblasts mediate insulin- like growth factor I and II stimulation of osteoclast formation and function. Endocrinology 1995; 136:124-131. > > 54. Kanatani M, Sugimoto T, Nishiyama K, et al. Stimulatory effect of insulin-like growth factor binding protein-5 on mouse osteoclast formation and osteoclastic bone-resorbing activity. J Bone Miner Res 2000; 15:902-910. > > If I interpret that correctly, the IGF-1 in milk, if I can absorb it may be anti osteoporosis? Notice that PGE2 increases skeletal IGF- 1 synthesis. > > Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Not necessarily increases lifespan. But the system may be scaling down bone mass in conjunction with weight loss. I'm saying not to use a low IGF-1 measurement as a good thing when evaluating CR. People measure things, in conjunction with a disease perhaps, and they draw sometimes erroneous conclusions. The low IGF-1 is an indication to me they are losing bone perhaps. I'm not sure I want to do that. I think what it does say, is that I disregard the IGF-1 fear in milk. I don't think it causes cancer, eg., because everyone makes it. And my personal opinion is I will keep drinking it to avoid the osteo some CRONies have incurred. Osteo is not a small thing. My 84yo sis-in-law avoided HRT and milk and now uses fosamax. (as does at least two of our CRONies, as I recall). Regards. [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo Hi JW:So is this saying in effect that CR, because of its effect of reducing IGF-1, increases lifespan but reduces bone strength?Rodney.> Worthy of note. > {CRers report lower IGF-1 as I recall.}> > Larsen: Textbook of Endocrinology, 10th ed., > Insulin-like Growth Factors> IGFs increase bone cell replication, matrix synthesis, and bone formation.[52] Both IGF-I and IGF-II are synthesized by bone cells and stored in bone matrix. More IGF-II is stored in human bone, but IGF-I is a more potent stimulator of osteoblasts. Binding of IGF-I and IGF-II to matrix may be mediated by specific IGF-binding proteins. Five of the six known binding proteins have been identified in bone, and these both inhibit and enhance IGF responses. Because PTH and PGE2 increase and glucocorticoids decrease skeletal IGF-I synthesis, IGFs may mediate the effects of these hormones on bone growth. IGF-I and its binding proteins may also stimulate osteoclast formation.[53] [54] > > 53. Hill PA, Reynolds JJ, Meikle MC. Osteoblasts mediate insulin-like growth factor I and II stimulation of osteoclast formation and function. Endocrinology 1995; 136:124-131. > > 54. Kanatani M, Sugimoto T, Nishiyama K, et al. Stimulatory effect of insulin-like growth factor binding protein-5 on mouse osteoclast formation and osteoclastic bone-resorbing activity. J Bone Miner Res 2000; 15:902-910. > > If I interpret that correctly, the IGF-1 in milk, if I can absorb it may be anti osteoporosis? Notice that PGE2 increases skeletal IGF-1 synthesis. > > Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Not necessarily increases lifespan. But the system may be scaling down bone mass in conjunction with weight loss. I'm saying not to use a low IGF-1 measurement as a good thing when evaluating CR. People measure things, in conjunction with a disease perhaps, and they draw sometimes erroneous conclusions. The low IGF-1 is an indication to me they are losing bone perhaps. I'm not sure I want to do that. I think what it does say, is that I disregard the IGF-1 fear in milk. I don't think it causes cancer, eg., because everyone makes it. And my personal opinion is I will keep drinking it to avoid the osteo some CRONies have incurred. Osteo is not a small thing. My 84yo sis-in-law avoided HRT and milk and now uses fosamax. (as does at least two of our CRONies, as I recall). Regards. [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo Hi JW:So is this saying in effect that CR, because of its effect of reducing IGF-1, increases lifespan but reduces bone strength?Rodney.> Worthy of note. > {CRers report lower IGF-1 as I recall.}> > Larsen: Textbook of Endocrinology, 10th ed., > Insulin-like Growth Factors> IGFs increase bone cell replication, matrix synthesis, and bone formation.[52] Both IGF-I and IGF-II are synthesized by bone cells and stored in bone matrix. More IGF-II is stored in human bone, but IGF-I is a more potent stimulator of osteoblasts. Binding of IGF-I and IGF-II to matrix may be mediated by specific IGF-binding proteins. Five of the six known binding proteins have been identified in bone, and these both inhibit and enhance IGF responses. Because PTH and PGE2 increase and glucocorticoids decrease skeletal IGF-I synthesis, IGFs may mediate the effects of these hormones on bone growth. IGF-I and its binding proteins may also stimulate osteoclast formation.[53] [54] > > 53. Hill PA, Reynolds JJ, Meikle MC. Osteoblasts mediate insulin-like growth factor I and II stimulation of osteoclast formation and function. Endocrinology 1995; 136:124-131. > > 54. Kanatani M, Sugimoto T, Nishiyama K, et al. Stimulatory effect of insulin-like growth factor binding protein-5 on mouse osteoclast formation and osteoclastic bone-resorbing activity. J Bone Miner Res 2000; 15:902-910. > > If I interpret that correctly, the IGF-1 in milk, if I can absorb it may be anti osteoporosis? Notice that PGE2 increases skeletal IGF-1 synthesis. > > Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Hi All, What about: Mutations that decrease production of insulin growth factor I in laboratory mammals, and those that decrease insulin-like signaling in nematodes and fruit flies, have increased life expectancy as well. ... PMID: 12196485? --- jwwright <jwwright@...> wrote: > Not necessarily increases lifespan. But the system may be scaling down bone mass > in conjunction with weight loss. > I'm saying not to use a low IGF-1 measurement as a good thing when evaluating CR. > > People measure things, in conjunction with a disease perhaps, and they draw > sometimes erroneous conclusions. The low IGF-1 is an indication to me they are > losing bone perhaps. I'm not sure I want to do that. > > I think what it does say, is that I disregard the IGF-1 fear in milk. I don't > think it causes cancer, eg., because everyone makes it. > > And my personal opinion is I will keep drinking it to avoid the osteo some CRONies > have incurred. Osteo is not a small thing. > My 84yo sis-in-law avoided HRT and milk and now uses fosamax. (as does at least > two of our CRONies, as I recall). > > Regards. > > > [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo > > > Hi JW: > > So is this saying in effect that CR, because of its effect of > reducing IGF-1, increases lifespan but reduces bone strength? > > Rodney. > > > > Worthy of note. > > {CRers report lower IGF-1 as I recall.} > > > > Larsen: Textbook of Endocrinology, 10th ed., > > Insulin-like Growth Factors > > IGFs increase bone cell replication, matrix synthesis, and bone > formation.[52] Both IGF-I and IGF-II are synthesized by bone cells > and stored in bone matrix. More IGF-II is stored in human bone, but > IGF-I is a more potent stimulator of osteoblasts. Binding of IGF-I > and IGF-II to matrix may be mediated by specific IGF-binding > proteins. Five of the six known binding proteins have been identified > in bone, and these both inhibit and enhance IGF responses. Because > PTH and PGE2 increase and glucocorticoids decrease skeletal IGF-I > synthesis, IGFs may mediate the effects of these hormones on bone > growth. IGF-I and its binding proteins may also stimulate osteoclast > formation.[53] [54] > > > > 53. Hill PA, Reynolds JJ, Meikle MC. Osteoblasts mediate insulin- > like growth factor I and II stimulation of osteoclast formation and > function. Endocrinology 1995; 136:124-131. > > > > 54. Kanatani M, Sugimoto T, Nishiyama K, et al. Stimulatory effect > of insulin-like growth factor binding protein-5 on mouse osteoclast > formation and osteoclastic bone-resorbing activity. J Bone Miner Res > 2000; 15:902-910. > > > > If I interpret that correctly, the IGF-1 in milk, if I can absorb > it may be anti osteoporosis? Notice that PGE2 increases skeletal IGF- > 1 synthesis. > > > > Regards. > > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@... ____________________________________________________ Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Hi All, What about: Mutations that decrease production of insulin growth factor I in laboratory mammals, and those that decrease insulin-like signaling in nematodes and fruit flies, have increased life expectancy as well. ... PMID: 12196485? --- jwwright <jwwright@...> wrote: > Not necessarily increases lifespan. But the system may be scaling down bone mass > in conjunction with weight loss. > I'm saying not to use a low IGF-1 measurement as a good thing when evaluating CR. > > People measure things, in conjunction with a disease perhaps, and they draw > sometimes erroneous conclusions. The low IGF-1 is an indication to me they are > losing bone perhaps. I'm not sure I want to do that. > > I think what it does say, is that I disregard the IGF-1 fear in milk. I don't > think it causes cancer, eg., because everyone makes it. > > And my personal opinion is I will keep drinking it to avoid the osteo some CRONies > have incurred. Osteo is not a small thing. > My 84yo sis-in-law avoided HRT and milk and now uses fosamax. (as does at least > two of our CRONies, as I recall). > > Regards. > > > [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo > > > Hi JW: > > So is this saying in effect that CR, because of its effect of > reducing IGF-1, increases lifespan but reduces bone strength? > > Rodney. > > > > Worthy of note. > > {CRers report lower IGF-1 as I recall.} > > > > Larsen: Textbook of Endocrinology, 10th ed., > > Insulin-like Growth Factors > > IGFs increase bone cell replication, matrix synthesis, and bone > formation.[52] Both IGF-I and IGF-II are synthesized by bone cells > and stored in bone matrix. More IGF-II is stored in human bone, but > IGF-I is a more potent stimulator of osteoblasts. Binding of IGF-I > and IGF-II to matrix may be mediated by specific IGF-binding > proteins. Five of the six known binding proteins have been identified > in bone, and these both inhibit and enhance IGF responses. Because > PTH and PGE2 increase and glucocorticoids decrease skeletal IGF-I > synthesis, IGFs may mediate the effects of these hormones on bone > growth. IGF-I and its binding proteins may also stimulate osteoclast > formation.[53] [54] > > > > 53. Hill PA, Reynolds JJ, Meikle MC. Osteoblasts mediate insulin- > like growth factor I and II stimulation of osteoclast formation and > function. Endocrinology 1995; 136:124-131. > > > > 54. Kanatani M, Sugimoto T, Nishiyama K, et al. Stimulatory effect > of insulin-like growth factor binding protein-5 on mouse osteoclast > formation and osteoclastic bone-resorbing activity. J Bone Miner Res > 2000; 15:902-910. > > > > If I interpret that correctly, the IGF-1 in milk, if I can absorb > it may be anti osteoporosis? Notice that PGE2 increases skeletal IGF- > 1 synthesis. > > > > Regards. > > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@... ____________________________________________________ Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Hi Alan, In the case of human CR, how would I distinguish between aging and mutation? IGF-1 falls off with age. Wouldn't it seem correct to believe I want to delay the falloff? Regards. Re: [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo Hi All,What about:Mutations that decrease production of insulin growth factor I in laboratory mammals,and those that decrease insulin-like signaling in nematodes and fruit flies, haveincreased life expectancy as well. ... PMID: 12196485?--- jwwright <jwwright@...> wrote:> Not necessarily increases lifespan. But the system may be scaling down bone mass> in conjunction with weight loss. > I'm saying not to use a low IGF-1 measurement as a good thing when evaluating CR. > > People measure things, in conjunction with a disease perhaps, and they draw> sometimes erroneous conclusions. The low IGF-1 is an indication to me they are> losing bone perhaps. I'm not sure I want to do that.> > I think what it does say, is that I disregard the IGF-1 fear in milk. I don't> think it causes cancer, eg., because everyone makes it.> > And my personal opinion is I will keep drinking it to avoid the osteo some CRONies> have incurred. Osteo is not a small thing.> My 84yo sis-in-law avoided HRT and milk and now uses fosamax. (as does at least> two of our CRONies, as I recall). > > Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Hi Alan, In the case of human CR, how would I distinguish between aging and mutation? IGF-1 falls off with age. Wouldn't it seem correct to believe I want to delay the falloff? Regards. Re: [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo Hi All,What about:Mutations that decrease production of insulin growth factor I in laboratory mammals,and those that decrease insulin-like signaling in nematodes and fruit flies, haveincreased life expectancy as well. ... PMID: 12196485?--- jwwright <jwwright@...> wrote:> Not necessarily increases lifespan. But the system may be scaling down bone mass> in conjunction with weight loss. > I'm saying not to use a low IGF-1 measurement as a good thing when evaluating CR. > > People measure things, in conjunction with a disease perhaps, and they draw> sometimes erroneous conclusions. The low IGF-1 is an indication to me they are> losing bone perhaps. I'm not sure I want to do that.> > I think what it does say, is that I disregard the IGF-1 fear in milk. I don't> think it causes cancer, eg., because everyone makes it.> > And my personal opinion is I will keep drinking it to avoid the osteo some CRONies> have incurred. Osteo is not a small thing.> My 84yo sis-in-law avoided HRT and milk and now uses fosamax. (as does at least> two of our CRONies, as I recall). > > Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Hi All and Message Sender, Comparing those of the same age may address your first question. For the second, " There is still insufficient evidence that treatment with exogenous GH in the healthy elderly that attains serum IGF-I levels similar to that of young adults is beneficial or safe. PMID: 15063105 --- jwwright <jwwright@...> wrote: > Hi Alan, > In the case of human CR, how would I distinguish between aging and mutation? > IGF-1 falls off with age. Wouldn't it seem correct to believe I want to delay the > falloff? > > Regards. > > Re: [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo > > > Hi All, > > What about: > > Mutations that decrease production of insulin growth factor I in laboratory > mammals, > and those that decrease insulin-like signaling in nematodes and fruit flies, > have > increased life expectancy as well. ... PMID: 12196485? Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@... ____________________________________________________ Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Hi All and Message Sender, Comparing those of the same age may address your first question. For the second, " There is still insufficient evidence that treatment with exogenous GH in the healthy elderly that attains serum IGF-I levels similar to that of young adults is beneficial or safe. PMID: 15063105 --- jwwright <jwwright@...> wrote: > Hi Alan, > In the case of human CR, how would I distinguish between aging and mutation? > IGF-1 falls off with age. Wouldn't it seem correct to believe I want to delay the > falloff? > > Regards. > > Re: [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo > > > Hi All, > > What about: > > Mutations that decrease production of insulin growth factor I in laboratory > mammals, > and those that decrease insulin-like signaling in nematodes and fruit flies, > have > increased life expectancy as well. ... PMID: 12196485? Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@... ____________________________________________________ Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Right. But if I have the IGF-1 of a 20 yo, doing CR, I'd be delirious. Or a 60yo. I view that like the drug you take for a disease and the liver gets used to it and it quits working. The GH quits in 10-12 months. ( Endocrinology) Which means to me there's another factor. A second derivative, if you will. The body wants the GH and IGF-1 to be at certain levels and if you augment it, the body cuts in another function. To visualize it (simply) take an oven and set it at 350 deg and the thermostat takes it to 350 and cycles there. Just for fun you pack ice around the oven and the element stays on still the temp falls. So you turn on a second element. Sounds silly, but a lot of times, I think that's what we try to do. Faking out the human system takes someone smarter than the system. IMO, we can't stop the aging function by adding GH, or IGF-1. We maybe can fake out the aging system using CR. Just musing. Regards. Re: [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo> > > Hi All,> > What about:> > Mutations that decrease production of insulin growth factor I in laboratory> mammals,> and those that decrease insulin-like signaling in nematodes and fruit flies,> have> increased life expectancy as well. ... PMID: 12196485?Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@... ____________________________________________________Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Right. But if I have the IGF-1 of a 20 yo, doing CR, I'd be delirious. Or a 60yo. I view that like the drug you take for a disease and the liver gets used to it and it quits working. The GH quits in 10-12 months. ( Endocrinology) Which means to me there's another factor. A second derivative, if you will. The body wants the GH and IGF-1 to be at certain levels and if you augment it, the body cuts in another function. To visualize it (simply) take an oven and set it at 350 deg and the thermostat takes it to 350 and cycles there. Just for fun you pack ice around the oven and the element stays on still the temp falls. So you turn on a second element. Sounds silly, but a lot of times, I think that's what we try to do. Faking out the human system takes someone smarter than the system. IMO, we can't stop the aging function by adding GH, or IGF-1. We maybe can fake out the aging system using CR. Just musing. Regards. Re: [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo> > > Hi All,> > What about:> > Mutations that decrease production of insulin growth factor I in laboratory> mammals,> and those that decrease insulin-like signaling in nematodes and fruit flies,> have> increased life expectancy as well. ... PMID: 12196485?Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@... ____________________________________________________Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Hi JW: Do not insulin and IGF-1 have similar functions in some way? And is not insulin dramatically reduced in CRed animals that live longer than their non-CR siblings? And if the foregoing is correct does it not suggest that lower IGF-1 is 'better'? Here is one study that covers some of the stuff about the relationship between IGF-1 and longevity: " Role of insulin/insulin-like growth factor 1 signaling pathway in longevity. Cheng CL, Gao TQ, Wang Z, Li DD. Institute of Medicinal Biotechnology, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences and Peking Union Medical College, 1 Tiantan XiLi, Beijing 100050, China. The insulin/insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) signaling pathway is evolutionary conserved in diverse species including C.elegans, saccharomyces cerevisiae, Drosophila melanogaster, rodents and humans, which is involved in many interrelated functions that are necessary for metabolism, growth and reproduction. Interestingly, more and more research has revealed that insulin/IGF-1 signaling pathway plays a pivotal role in the regulation of longevity. Generally, disruption of the power of this pathway will extend longevity in species ranging from C.elegans to humans. The role of insulin/IGF-1 in longevity is probably related to stress resistance. Although the underlying mechanisms of longevity are not fully understood, the Insulin/IGF-1 signaling pathway has attracted substantial attention and it will be a novel target to prevent or postpone age-related diseases and extend life span. In this review, we mainly focus on the similar constitution and role of insulin/IGF-1 signaling pathway in C.elegans, saccharomyces cerevisiae, rodents and humans. Publication Types: Review. PMID: 15800976 " I don't have a strong view about this. I am just tossing it out to add to the discussion. Rodney. > > > Hi Alan, > > In the case of human CR, how would I distinguish between aging and mutation? > > IGF-1 falls off with age. Wouldn't it seem correct to believe I want to delay the > > falloff? > > > > Regards. > > > > Re: [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > What about: > > > > Mutations that decrease production of insulin growth factor I in laboratory > > mammals, > > and those that decrease insulin-like signaling in nematodes and fruit flies, > > have > > increased life expectancy as well. ... PMID: 12196485? > > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@y... > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Start your day with - make it your home page > http://www./r/hs > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Hi JW: Do not insulin and IGF-1 have similar functions in some way? And is not insulin dramatically reduced in CRed animals that live longer than their non-CR siblings? And if the foregoing is correct does it not suggest that lower IGF-1 is 'better'? Here is one study that covers some of the stuff about the relationship between IGF-1 and longevity: " Role of insulin/insulin-like growth factor 1 signaling pathway in longevity. Cheng CL, Gao TQ, Wang Z, Li DD. Institute of Medicinal Biotechnology, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences and Peking Union Medical College, 1 Tiantan XiLi, Beijing 100050, China. The insulin/insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) signaling pathway is evolutionary conserved in diverse species including C.elegans, saccharomyces cerevisiae, Drosophila melanogaster, rodents and humans, which is involved in many interrelated functions that are necessary for metabolism, growth and reproduction. Interestingly, more and more research has revealed that insulin/IGF-1 signaling pathway plays a pivotal role in the regulation of longevity. Generally, disruption of the power of this pathway will extend longevity in species ranging from C.elegans to humans. The role of insulin/IGF-1 in longevity is probably related to stress resistance. Although the underlying mechanisms of longevity are not fully understood, the Insulin/IGF-1 signaling pathway has attracted substantial attention and it will be a novel target to prevent or postpone age-related diseases and extend life span. In this review, we mainly focus on the similar constitution and role of insulin/IGF-1 signaling pathway in C.elegans, saccharomyces cerevisiae, rodents and humans. Publication Types: Review. PMID: 15800976 " I don't have a strong view about this. I am just tossing it out to add to the discussion. Rodney. > > > Hi Alan, > > In the case of human CR, how would I distinguish between aging and mutation? > > IGF-1 falls off with age. Wouldn't it seem correct to believe I want to delay the > > falloff? > > > > Regards. > > > > Re: [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > What about: > > > > Mutations that decrease production of insulin growth factor I in laboratory > > mammals, > > and those that decrease insulin-like signaling in nematodes and fruit flies, > > have > > increased life expectancy as well. ... PMID: 12196485? > > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@y... > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Start your day with - make it your home page > http://www./r/hs > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Heh, I do have a strong opinion about this, and here is the guy who in large part makes me feel that way..... http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/short/en.2005-0411v1 Bartke Look, basically, I feel that "insulinemic" signaling, to which IGF-1 belongs, is antagonistic to longevity. However, it is "great" for your bones. In fact, type 2 diabetics have veritably adamantine bones! __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Heh, I do have a strong opinion about this, and here is the guy who in large part makes me feel that way..... http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/short/en.2005-0411v1 Bartke Look, basically, I feel that "insulinemic" signaling, to which IGF-1 belongs, is antagonistic to longevity. However, it is "great" for your bones. In fact, type 2 diabetics have veritably adamantine bones! __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 What I was putting forth was how the IGF-1 is characterized in the endo book. IGF-1 falls off with age just like growth hormone does. IMO, If I want to stay "younger" I want the IGF-1 to not fall off, and I want the GH to not fall off (and other things too). I've been wondering for several years now, why I want to try to fit the characteristics that resemble aging. Perhaps the IGF-1 in test animals is lower because CR is started at an earlier age and just stays low. Maybe that's not the same thing as the fall off humans see in aging. IGF-1 levels have characteristic values showing the status of your health, just like other things you measure in blood tests, etc. Why wouldn't I want the level, 250 ng/ml or so, I had when I was 20yo? I'd like to have that weight perhaps. Why would I not want to avoid osteoporosis? These are health and mortality issues, just like cholesterol, BP. Don't know if this will come thru. You could interpret the IGF-1 chart several ways, because the data is a scatter. 60-yo can be anywhere from 20 to 340. Figure 25-2 Changes in the hormone levels of normal women (left) and men (right) during the aging process. A and B, Estrogen secretion throughout an individual normal woman's life (expressed as urinary estrogen excretion) (A) and mean free testosterone (T) index (the ratio of serum total T to sex hormone–binding globulin levels) during the life span of healthy men (. (From Guyton AC. In Guyton AC [ed]. Textbook of Medical Physiology, 8th ed. Philadelphia, WB Saunders, 1991, pp 899–914.[22] ) C and D, Serum dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEAS) concentrations in 114 healthy women © and 163 healthy men (D). (Adapted from Ravaglia G, et al. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1996; 81:1173–1178. [19] ) E and F, The course of serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) concentrations in 131 healthy women (E) and 223 healthy men (F) during aging. Note the difference in the distribution of ages in the different panels. (Adapted from Corpas E, et al. Endocr Rev 1993; 14:20–39.[21] ) Re: [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo> > > > > > Hi All,> > > > What about:> > > > Mutations that decrease production of insulin growth factor I in laboratory> > mammals,> > and those that decrease insulin-like signaling in nematodes and fruit flies,> > have> > increased life expectancy as well. ... PMID: 12196485?> > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@y... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 What I was putting forth was how the IGF-1 is characterized in the endo book. IGF-1 falls off with age just like growth hormone does. IMO, If I want to stay "younger" I want the IGF-1 to not fall off, and I want the GH to not fall off (and other things too). I've been wondering for several years now, why I want to try to fit the characteristics that resemble aging. Perhaps the IGF-1 in test animals is lower because CR is started at an earlier age and just stays low. Maybe that's not the same thing as the fall off humans see in aging. IGF-1 levels have characteristic values showing the status of your health, just like other things you measure in blood tests, etc. Why wouldn't I want the level, 250 ng/ml or so, I had when I was 20yo? I'd like to have that weight perhaps. Why would I not want to avoid osteoporosis? These are health and mortality issues, just like cholesterol, BP. Don't know if this will come thru. You could interpret the IGF-1 chart several ways, because the data is a scatter. 60-yo can be anywhere from 20 to 340. Figure 25-2 Changes in the hormone levels of normal women (left) and men (right) during the aging process. A and B, Estrogen secretion throughout an individual normal woman's life (expressed as urinary estrogen excretion) (A) and mean free testosterone (T) index (the ratio of serum total T to sex hormone–binding globulin levels) during the life span of healthy men (. (From Guyton AC. In Guyton AC [ed]. Textbook of Medical Physiology, 8th ed. Philadelphia, WB Saunders, 1991, pp 899–914.[22] ) C and D, Serum dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEAS) concentrations in 114 healthy women © and 163 healthy men (D). (Adapted from Ravaglia G, et al. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1996; 81:1173–1178. [19] ) E and F, The course of serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) concentrations in 131 healthy women (E) and 223 healthy men (F) during aging. Note the difference in the distribution of ages in the different panels. (Adapted from Corpas E, et al. Endocr Rev 1993; 14:20–39.[21] ) Re: [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo> > > > > > Hi All,> > > > What about:> > > > Mutations that decrease production of insulin growth factor I in laboratory> > mammals,> > and those that decrease insulin-like signaling in nematodes and fruit flies,> > have> > increased life expectancy as well. ... PMID: 12196485?> > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@y... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Remember the pictures of the young looking CR'd rats and the adlib "old" rats? Which had adamantine bones? Regards. [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo Heh, I do have a strong opinion about this, and here is the guy who in large part makes me feel that way..... http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/short/en.2005-0411v1 Bartke Look, basically, I feel that "insulinemic" signaling, to which IGF-1 belongs, is antagonistic to longevity. However, it is "great" for your bones. In fact, type 2 diabetics have veritably adamantine bones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Remember the pictures of the young looking CR'd rats and the adlib "old" rats? Which had adamantine bones? Regards. [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo Heh, I do have a strong opinion about this, and here is the guy who in large part makes me feel that way..... http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/short/en.2005-0411v1 Bartke Look, basically, I feel that "insulinemic" signaling, to which IGF-1 belongs, is antagonistic to longevity. However, it is "great" for your bones. In fact, type 2 diabetics have veritably adamantine bones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Just a cursory look, perhaps if you can change a gene and revert to a lower level of system operation, maybe yes, but this is not the same as wanting to be healthy at my present size and age. Also, I'm not afraid to drink milk anymore. So we have 3 things: 1. our health as evidenced by blood tests, etc. 2. the IGF-1 which might or might not be absorbed from milk. 3. rat tests, which probably aren't applicable to grown humans. These tests are just a description of factors in the aging process - trying to bound the aging problem. Has nothing to do with what I can do in my diet, etc to change my "CR" condition, if I knew what those CRed parameters should be. All I have is the "standard" medical guide for BMI, body fat, blood pressure. Another thing I was pointing out was a link to PGE2 which has been described as a baddie, is a factor in bone health, so don't throw out the AA. Prostaglandins ( endocrinology) Prostaglandins are potent regulators of bone cell metabolism and are synthesized by many cell types in the skeleton.[51] Prostaglandin production in bone is regulated by the effects of local and systemic hormones and mechanical forces on the inducible cyclooxygenase (COX-2). Increased prostaglandin production may contribute to the increase in bone resorption with immobilization, the increase in bone formation with impact loading, and the changes after estrogen withdrawal. Many of the hormones, cytokines, and growth factors that stimulate bone resorption also increase prostaglandin production. Prostaglandins have biphasic effects on bone formation. Stimulation of bone formation is seen in vivo, and inhibition of collagen synthesis occurs in osteoblast cultures. Bone cells produce PGE2 , PGF2a , prostacyclin, and lipoxygenase products (e.g., leukotriene B4 ), which may also stimulate bone resorption. Because PTH and PGE2 increase and glucocorticoids decrease skeletal IGF-I synthesis, IGFs may mediate the effects of these hormones on bone growth. IGF-I and its binding proteins may also stimulate osteoclast formation. Regards. [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo Heh, I do have a strong opinion about this, and here is the guy who in large part makes me feel that way..... http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/short/en.2005-0411v1 Bartke Look, basically, I feel that "insulinemic" signaling, to which IGF-1 belongs, is antagonistic to longevity. However, it is "great" for your bones. In fact, type 2 diabetics have veritably adamantine bones! __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Just a cursory look, perhaps if you can change a gene and revert to a lower level of system operation, maybe yes, but this is not the same as wanting to be healthy at my present size and age. Also, I'm not afraid to drink milk anymore. So we have 3 things: 1. our health as evidenced by blood tests, etc. 2. the IGF-1 which might or might not be absorbed from milk. 3. rat tests, which probably aren't applicable to grown humans. These tests are just a description of factors in the aging process - trying to bound the aging problem. Has nothing to do with what I can do in my diet, etc to change my "CR" condition, if I knew what those CRed parameters should be. All I have is the "standard" medical guide for BMI, body fat, blood pressure. Another thing I was pointing out was a link to PGE2 which has been described as a baddie, is a factor in bone health, so don't throw out the AA. Prostaglandins ( endocrinology) Prostaglandins are potent regulators of bone cell metabolism and are synthesized by many cell types in the skeleton.[51] Prostaglandin production in bone is regulated by the effects of local and systemic hormones and mechanical forces on the inducible cyclooxygenase (COX-2). Increased prostaglandin production may contribute to the increase in bone resorption with immobilization, the increase in bone formation with impact loading, and the changes after estrogen withdrawal. Many of the hormones, cytokines, and growth factors that stimulate bone resorption also increase prostaglandin production. Prostaglandins have biphasic effects on bone formation. Stimulation of bone formation is seen in vivo, and inhibition of collagen synthesis occurs in osteoblast cultures. Bone cells produce PGE2 , PGF2a , prostacyclin, and lipoxygenase products (e.g., leukotriene B4 ), which may also stimulate bone resorption. Because PTH and PGE2 increase and glucocorticoids decrease skeletal IGF-I synthesis, IGFs may mediate the effects of these hormones on bone growth. IGF-I and its binding proteins may also stimulate osteoclast formation. Regards. [ ] Re: IGF-1 PGE2 osteo Heh, I do have a strong opinion about this, and here is the guy who in large part makes me feel that way..... http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/short/en.2005-0411v1 Bartke Look, basically, I feel that "insulinemic" signaling, to which IGF-1 belongs, is antagonistic to longevity. However, it is "great" for your bones. In fact, type 2 diabetics have veritably adamantine bones! __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 I completely agree that the longitudinal decline of IGF-1 levels in the serum seen with the passage of time reflects to some degree the evolution of a pronounced secretory deficit which may represent a loss of endocrinological integrity with aging. In regards to your second post, I think that senile bone loss is what one would find in mammals of extremely advanced age, and any bone weakness that evolves at that point is attributable more likely to cytological-level compromise that may result from the aging process itself. Before reaching that point, I would predictthat ad libbers would probably have stronger bones. [Damn LIBS!] T. pct35768@... for Mobile Take with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 I completely agree that the longitudinal decline of IGF-1 levels in the serum seen with the passage of time reflects to some degree the evolution of a pronounced secretory deficit which may represent a loss of endocrinological integrity with aging. In regards to your second post, I think that senile bone loss is what one would find in mammals of extremely advanced age, and any bone weakness that evolves at that point is attributable more likely to cytological-level compromise that may result from the aging process itself. Before reaching that point, I would predictthat ad libbers would probably have stronger bones. [Damn LIBS!] T. pct35768@... for Mobile Take with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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