Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

[Guest guest]

It may prove we know how to shorten lifespan, taken as a whole.

RE: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

Yes, and my father enjoyed his pipe and lucky strikes until he succumbed to throat cancer in his late 40's .

These anecdotes don't prove anything.

JR

[Guest guest]

BTW, it occurs to me that very little in the CR groups has been proved scientifically even for animals, much less for humans.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

BTW, it occurs to me that very little in the CR groups has been proved scientifically even for animals, much less for humans.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

1) Measures of " athletic ability " ? Is VO2 (measure of body's

efficiency at utlizing Oxygen) a measure of athletic ability? Is

increased bone mass " athletic ability " ? Better coordination at

standing and moving your body through various planes a measure of

athletic ability? Is increased lumen size " AA " ?? Of course we now know

more about the ways exercise alters the mechanical aspects of the

body, and less its influence on morbidity or cancer processes etc.

How does this help CRON? Will CRON sufficiently protect you from

pernicious bone loss? muscle atrophy and progressive strength loss?

progressive stiffening of joints and loss of coordination? Can you be

so sure that you are making all the necessary correct CRON choices

that you recieve the maximum health benefits? And if you do it

perfectly is it enough? Do you know the answers to these questions?

2) SPRINTS are difficult and very intense form of exercise and you are

operating at PEAK VO2 levels and maximum heart rate as opposed to 60%

VO2 for longer runs. This would get you over that " threshold " I was

speaking but maybe only for certain measures. For instance, endurance

exercise of longer duration reduces the stiffness of large arteries

such as the aorta but this effect has not been demonstrated for short

burts. The mechanical loads differ to the cardio system and skeletal

system b/w the two, ie short burst and longer duration. So don't

assume that just because one measure such as VO2 is improved that the

two are equal in all effects.

3) I believe the intensity should be sufficient to at least maintain

bone mass, muscle strength, flexibility, endurance and coordination in

the face of advancing years. It's interesting that I can tell fairly

accurately a persons age after observing them walk and move at a

distance without ever seeing their face. 60 year olds " move "

differently than 30 y olds. 80 worse than 60! To me this represents a

progressive deterioration of the mechanical system of the body. Is not

the mechanical system and locomotion important? If you wear out your

joints where will you " live "

> > >

> > > A couple of questions:

> > >

> > > > ....... Research has shown that up to a threshold, and

> that

> > > > threshold is moderately high, higher intensities over

> longer

> > > > periods impart the greatest benefit.

> > >

> > > XXXXX In the research to which you refer what were the measures

> that

> > > were regarded as representing " benefit " ? XXXXX

> > >

> > > > Also demonstrated is that exercise levels too short or

> too " light " ,

> > > > or the " wrong " exercise do not provide anything in the way

> of

> > > > desired goals, ie significant adaptation.

> > >

> > > XXXXX So are you saying that in your opinion moderate exercise

> that

> > > is below the " moderately high " intensity you mention, imparts no

> > > benefit at all? XXXXX

> > >

> > > > I've said this before, the ambiguous meaning of " exercise " and

> the

> > > > fact of threshold effects, we need to establish an " OE " (Optimum

> > > > Exercise) standard of terminology and application.

> > >

> > > XXXXX So what in your opinion represents " optimum exercise " and

> what

> > > are the most important measures by which one can judge whether

> one is

> > > getting it? Thanks. XXXXX

> > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

1) Measures of " athletic ability " ? Is VO2 (measure of body's

efficiency at utlizing Oxygen) a measure of athletic ability? Is

increased bone mass " athletic ability " ? Better coordination at

standing and moving your body through various planes a measure of

athletic ability? Is increased lumen size " AA " ?? Of course we now know

more about the ways exercise alters the mechanical aspects of the

body, and less its influence on morbidity or cancer processes etc.

How does this help CRON? Will CRON sufficiently protect you from

pernicious bone loss? muscle atrophy and progressive strength loss?

progressive stiffening of joints and loss of coordination? Can you be

so sure that you are making all the necessary correct CRON choices

that you recieve the maximum health benefits? And if you do it

perfectly is it enough? Do you know the answers to these questions?

2) SPRINTS are difficult and very intense form of exercise and you are

operating at PEAK VO2 levels and maximum heart rate as opposed to 60%

VO2 for longer runs. This would get you over that " threshold " I was

speaking but maybe only for certain measures. For instance, endurance

exercise of longer duration reduces the stiffness of large arteries

such as the aorta but this effect has not been demonstrated for short

burts. The mechanical loads differ to the cardio system and skeletal

system b/w the two, ie short burst and longer duration. So don't

assume that just because one measure such as VO2 is improved that the

two are equal in all effects.

3) I believe the intensity should be sufficient to at least maintain

bone mass, muscle strength, flexibility, endurance and coordination in

the face of advancing years. It's interesting that I can tell fairly

accurately a persons age after observing them walk and move at a

distance without ever seeing their face. 60 year olds " move "

differently than 30 y olds. 80 worse than 60! To me this represents a

progressive deterioration of the mechanical system of the body. Is not

the mechanical system and locomotion important? If you wear out your

joints where will you " live "

> > >

> > > A couple of questions:

> > >

> > > > ....... Research has shown that up to a threshold, and

> that

> > > > threshold is moderately high, higher intensities over

> longer

> > > > periods impart the greatest benefit.

> > >

> > > XXXXX In the research to which you refer what were the measures

> that

> > > were regarded as representing " benefit " ? XXXXX

> > >

> > > > Also demonstrated is that exercise levels too short or

> too " light " ,

> > > > or the " wrong " exercise do not provide anything in the way

> of

> > > > desired goals, ie significant adaptation.

> > >

> > > XXXXX So are you saying that in your opinion moderate exercise

> that

> > > is below the " moderately high " intensity you mention, imparts no

> > > benefit at all? XXXXX

> > >

> > > > I've said this before, the ambiguous meaning of " exercise " and

> the

> > > > fact of threshold effects, we need to establish an " OE " (Optimum

> > > > Exercise) standard of terminology and application.

> > >

> > > XXXXX So what in your opinion represents " optimum exercise " and

> what

> > > are the most important measures by which one can judge whether

> one is

> > > getting it? Thanks. XXXXX

> > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

My own guess is that the benefits of exercise (really almost everything

in life) is a bell curve. The benefits are great at the beginning but

the benefits begin to lessen with each additional exercise unit per week

and at some point the benefits of each new exercise unit turn negative.

I would imagine that each person's bell curve would be different. Since

there is no identical person who does not exercise to compare with the

person who does exercise I do not see how any individual case would be

helpful to our discussion.

I would think that a modest yoga, a modest cardio and a modest weight

bearing exercise program would be of a net benefit. Anything beyond that

would be a personal choice having nothing to do with longevity. IMHO

Positive Dennis

[Guest guest]

My own guess is that the benefits of exercise (really almost everything

in life) is a bell curve. The benefits are great at the beginning but

the benefits begin to lessen with each additional exercise unit per week

and at some point the benefits of each new exercise unit turn negative.

I would imagine that each person's bell curve would be different. Since

there is no identical person who does not exercise to compare with the

person who does exercise I do not see how any individual case would be

helpful to our discussion.

I would think that a modest yoga, a modest cardio and a modest weight

bearing exercise program would be of a net benefit. Anything beyond that

would be a personal choice having nothing to do with longevity. IMHO

Positive Dennis

[Guest guest]

I think that you are right that moderation is the key. Here is an

article about aging, exercise, and diet:

Exercise and healthy diet slow memory loss:

http://news./s/nm/20050907/sc_nm/ageing_dc

Tony

> My own guess is that the benefits of exercise (really almost

everything

> in life) is a bell curve. The benefits are great at the beginning

but

> the benefits begin to lessen with each additional exercise unit per

week

> and at some point the benefits of each new exercise unit turn

negative.

> I would imagine that each person's bell curve would be different.

Since

> there is no identical person who does not exercise to compare with

the

> person who does exercise I do not see how any individual case would

be

> helpful to our discussion.

>

> I would think that a modest yoga, a modest cardio and a modest

weight

> bearing exercise program would be of a net benefit. Anything beyond

that

> would be a personal choice having nothing to do with longevity. IMHO

>

> Positive Dennis

[Guest guest]

I think that you are right that moderation is the key. Here is an

article about aging, exercise, and diet:

Exercise and healthy diet slow memory loss:

http://news./s/nm/20050907/sc_nm/ageing_dc

Tony

> My own guess is that the benefits of exercise (really almost

everything

> in life) is a bell curve. The benefits are great at the beginning

but

> the benefits begin to lessen with each additional exercise unit per

week

> and at some point the benefits of each new exercise unit turn

negative.

> I would imagine that each person's bell curve would be different.

Since

> there is no identical person who does not exercise to compare with

the

> person who does exercise I do not see how any individual case would

be

> helpful to our discussion.

>

> I would think that a modest yoga, a modest cardio and a modest

weight

> bearing exercise program would be of a net benefit. Anything beyond

that

> would be a personal choice having nothing to do with longevity. IMHO

>

> Positive Dennis

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

Since this discussion may present the notion that exercise may or may not be

harmful, based on anecdotal reports, it may be expedient to say that a recent

thorough study found that those who met such fates were predisposed to increased

risk. Disease would have come earlier without exercise. It came during the

stress

of exercise in which the decedents were subject to temporarily greater relative

risk

of death.

Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@...

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

Since this discussion may present the notion that exercise may or may not be

harmful, based on anecdotal reports, it may be expedient to say that a recent

thorough study found that those who met such fates were predisposed to increased

risk. Disease would have come earlier without exercise. It came during the

stress

of exercise in which the decedents were subject to temporarily greater relative

risk

of death.

Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@...

__________________________________________________