Re: Hydrogenated or partially Hydrogenated fats question

[Guest guest]

I'll just answer this part of your post (below). Dr. Dean ornish who is world famous has shown that heart disease caused by such diets as you mention below can be reversed. This is old news. I'm sure if you google Dr Ornish you'll get all kinds of info about reversing disease through diet and exercise.

on 11/2/2005 3:12 PM, Bob and at flowerpowerpetalpusher@... wrote:

steroids. Perhaps we should ask him that)

But, how does a person who has spent an entire lifetime eating the

typical american diet with all its Hydrogentated fats and partially

Hydrogenated fats going to be able to lose it if it congeals in the

body like it does in the can? Candies etc full of it. Who knows what

they are using in the fastfood chains etc.

[Guest guest]

I'll just answer this part of your post (below). Dr. Dean ornish who is world famous has shown that heart disease caused by such diets as you mention below can be reversed. This is old news. I'm sure if you google Dr Ornish you'll get all kinds of info about reversing disease through diet and exercise.

on 11/2/2005 3:12 PM, Bob and at flowerpowerpetalpusher@... wrote:

steroids. Perhaps we should ask him that)

But, how does a person who has spent an entire lifetime eating the

typical american diet with all its Hydrogentated fats and partially

Hydrogenated fats going to be able to lose it if it congeals in the

body like it does in the can? Candies etc full of it. Who knows what

they are using in the fastfood chains etc.

[Guest guest]

What is this"?

"Too much fat and you have CVD and too little you getcancer?"

[ ] Hydrogenated or partially Hydrogenated fats question

To answer a previous posters question...We don't really want to stop eating fish or sardines or Salmon.The salt and the oils they are packed in may or may not be good for us.Also, the question of too many fat calories has been raised to uspersonally ( as per Cholesterol) so we were seeking some answersrelated to that. I mean what were the other options for us? Webought some flaxseeds but now find even those may be bad for us as perthe recent post above.Our friends who were linguists in the south pacific and New Guineatold us of the use of Coconut and the use of protein and the use oftubers. However, we did not want to replicate a subsistence diet. Wejust know that these people were lean and had few heart problems.Our next question is....since Hydrogenated fats and partiallyhydrogenated fats harm the cells of the body, what is a person upagainst when it comes to losing these kinds of fats out of the body?(Apparently, from looking at Tony's website he has found the answer tofat loss and perhaps health in body building which is impressive. Butwe have yet to meet a body builder explain how he/she did it withoutsteroids. Perhaps we should ask him that) But, how does a person who has spent an entire lifetime eating thetypical american diet with all its Hydrogentated fats and partiallyHydrogenated fats going to be able to lose it if it congeals in thebody like it does in the can? Candies etc full of it. Who knows whatthey are using in the fastfood chains etc.Even too much olive oil can cause weight gain.No matter which way you go if you don't watch the calories you becomefat as a toad!! Too much fat and you have CVD and too little you getcancer?

Sorry for all the questions But this is not an easy way. Especiallythe Optimum Nutrition way.Sincerely,Bob and

[Guest guest]

What is this"?

"Too much fat and you have CVD and too little you getcancer?"

[ ] Hydrogenated or partially Hydrogenated fats question

To answer a previous posters question...We don't really want to stop eating fish or sardines or Salmon.The salt and the oils they are packed in may or may not be good for us.Also, the question of too many fat calories has been raised to uspersonally ( as per Cholesterol) so we were seeking some answersrelated to that. I mean what were the other options for us? Webought some flaxseeds but now find even those may be bad for us as perthe recent post above.Our friends who were linguists in the south pacific and New Guineatold us of the use of Coconut and the use of protein and the use oftubers. However, we did not want to replicate a subsistence diet. Wejust know that these people were lean and had few heart problems.Our next question is....since Hydrogenated fats and partiallyhydrogenated fats harm the cells of the body, what is a person upagainst when it comes to losing these kinds of fats out of the body?(Apparently, from looking at Tony's website he has found the answer tofat loss and perhaps health in body building which is impressive. Butwe have yet to meet a body builder explain how he/she did it withoutsteroids. Perhaps we should ask him that) But, how does a person who has spent an entire lifetime eating thetypical american diet with all its Hydrogentated fats and partiallyHydrogenated fats going to be able to lose it if it congeals in thebody like it does in the can? Candies etc full of it. Who knows whatthey are using in the fastfood chains etc.Even too much olive oil can cause weight gain.No matter which way you go if you don't watch the calories you becomefat as a toad!! Too much fat and you have CVD and too little you getcancer?

Sorry for all the questions But this is not an easy way. Especiallythe Optimum Nutrition way.Sincerely,Bob and

[Guest guest]

>>We don't really want to stop eating fish or sardines or Salmon.

The salt and the oils they are packed in may or may not be good for us.

They are readily available in salt free, water packed tins.

>>Our next question is....since Hydrogenated fats and partially

hydrogenated fats harm the cells of the body, what is a person up

against when it comes to losing these kinds of fats out of the body?

>>But, how does a person who has spent an entire lifetime eating the

typical american diet with all its Hydrogentated fats and partially

Hydrogenated fats going to be able to lose it if it congeals in the

body like it does in the can?

Living well is never contra-indicated. The best you can do IS the best you can

do. But, not doing the best you can do, (over some " potential " concern), is not

doing the best you can do.

By practicing ON, you take a giant step. By adding in CR, you taker a

" potentially " bigger step.

>>Too much fat and you have CVD and too little you get

cancer?

There are many aspects to all of these diseases, and amount and type of fat may

be related to CVD and certain cancers.

So, eat a lower fat (15-20%) made up of only naturally occuring (ooops, sorry

Rodney) fats found in whole plant foods with a small amount of nuts, seeds,

and a small amount of lean animal protein, if desired.. And, avoid saturated

fat, hydrogenated fat, and trans fat, (and refined sugars, carbs, etc).

Regards

Jeff

[Guest guest]

>>We don't really want to stop eating fish or sardines or Salmon.

The salt and the oils they are packed in may or may not be good for us.

They are readily available in salt free, water packed tins.

>>Our next question is....since Hydrogenated fats and partially

hydrogenated fats harm the cells of the body, what is a person up

against when it comes to losing these kinds of fats out of the body?

>>But, how does a person who has spent an entire lifetime eating the

typical american diet with all its Hydrogentated fats and partially

Hydrogenated fats going to be able to lose it if it congeals in the

body like it does in the can?

Living well is never contra-indicated. The best you can do IS the best you can

do. But, not doing the best you can do, (over some " potential " concern), is not

doing the best you can do.

By practicing ON, you take a giant step. By adding in CR, you taker a

" potentially " bigger step.

>>Too much fat and you have CVD and too little you get

cancer?

There are many aspects to all of these diseases, and amount and type of fat may

be related to CVD and certain cancers.

So, eat a lower fat (15-20%) made up of only naturally occuring (ooops, sorry

Rodney) fats found in whole plant foods with a small amount of nuts, seeds,

and a small amount of lean animal protein, if desired.. And, avoid saturated

fat, hydrogenated fat, and trans fat, (and refined sugars, carbs, etc).

Regards

Jeff

[Guest guest]

Hi Jeff:

LOLOL.

I don't think we disagree on much. How about using the

term " unprocessed " instead of " naturally occurring " . Bran is natural

but it is the result of processing of the seed.

Hydrogenated fat is an example of something that is thoroughly

unnatural. It is also processed.

Oils are processed as well. But are the same substance that is

available in the original product of nature, just separated from the

rest, and therefore in more concentrated form.

So my impression is that generally you are telling us not to consume

foods that are the result of processing, but eat instead the original

unprocessed product. Unfortunately, though, even the whole grain is

processed to the extent of being removed from the rest of the plant.

And if whole grain flour is used it is ground in addition. So the

term " processed " is not the perfect definition either.

Most processing results in the removal of some material and in effect

the concentration of the remainder. When this concentration process

has the effect of concentrating the widely acknowledged beneficial

components then perhaps it can be quite healthy???? Removing the

endosperm (starch and not much else) and concentrating the essential

elements and vitamins in the remainder of the seed could be regarded

as healthy (imo).

When the concentration process concentrates the harmful components,

including calories, usually because consumers buy the product because

they like their flavors, then clearly it is not beneficial to

health ......... sugar, fats, etc..

I am still open minded to the possibility that concentrating the bran

may be beneficial despite the fact that it is the result of

processing.

Just a few thoughts, hoping to provoke another illuminating response!

Rodney.

--- In , " Jeff Novick " <jnovick@p...>

wrote:

>

> So, eat a lower fat (15-20%) made up of only naturally occuring

(ooops, sorry Rodney) fats found in whole plant foods with a small

amount of nuts, seeds, and a small amount of lean animal protein, if

desired.. And, avoid saturated fat, hydrogenated fat, and trans

fat, (and refined sugars, carbs, etc).

>

> Regards

> Jeff

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jeff:

LOLOL.

I don't think we disagree on much. How about using the

term " unprocessed " instead of " naturally occurring " . Bran is natural

but it is the result of processing of the seed.

Hydrogenated fat is an example of something that is thoroughly

unnatural. It is also processed.

Oils are processed as well. But are the same substance that is

available in the original product of nature, just separated from the

rest, and therefore in more concentrated form.

So my impression is that generally you are telling us not to consume

foods that are the result of processing, but eat instead the original

unprocessed product. Unfortunately, though, even the whole grain is

processed to the extent of being removed from the rest of the plant.

And if whole grain flour is used it is ground in addition. So the

term " processed " is not the perfect definition either.

Most processing results in the removal of some material and in effect

the concentration of the remainder. When this concentration process

has the effect of concentrating the widely acknowledged beneficial

components then perhaps it can be quite healthy???? Removing the

endosperm (starch and not much else) and concentrating the essential

elements and vitamins in the remainder of the seed could be regarded

as healthy (imo).

When the concentration process concentrates the harmful components,

including calories, usually because consumers buy the product because

they like their flavors, then clearly it is not beneficial to

health ......... sugar, fats, etc..

I am still open minded to the possibility that concentrating the bran

may be beneficial despite the fact that it is the result of

processing.

Just a few thoughts, hoping to provoke another illuminating response!

Rodney.

--- In , " Jeff Novick " <jnovick@p...>

wrote:

>

> So, eat a lower fat (15-20%) made up of only naturally occuring

(ooops, sorry Rodney) fats found in whole plant foods with a small

amount of nuts, seeds, and a small amount of lean animal protein, if

desired.. And, avoid saturated fat, hydrogenated fat, and trans

fat, (and refined sugars, carbs, etc).

>

> Regards

> Jeff

>

[Guest guest]

>> How about using the term " unprocessed " instead of " naturally occurring " .

Agreed

>>So my impression is that generally you are telling us not to consume

foods that are the result of processing, but eat instead the original

unprocessed product.

As a general " principle "

>>I am still open minded to the possibility that concentrating the bran

may be beneficial despite the fact that it is the result of

processing.

I agree that in certain cases, depending on the person and the situation, and

their goal, certain " processed " or " concentrated " foods may be appropriate, even

if they come in the form of a supplement.

Regards

jeff

[Guest guest]

>> How about using the term " unprocessed " instead of " naturally occurring " .

Agreed

>>So my impression is that generally you are telling us not to consume

foods that are the result of processing, but eat instead the original

unprocessed product.

As a general " principle "

>>I am still open minded to the possibility that concentrating the bran

may be beneficial despite the fact that it is the result of

processing.

I agree that in certain cases, depending on the person and the situation, and

their goal, certain " processed " or " concentrated " foods may be appropriate, even

if they come in the form of a supplement.

Regards

jeff