Re: Re: A Pavlovian Theory of Weight Control/ Leading is often more effective than pushing.

[Guest guest]

Hi Rodney,

With trepidations about revealing my inadequacies, I must admit that I have

chosen my ideal weight by unscientific means; namely, just having ribs

showing, and a flat or even concave abdomen without " sucking it in " . In the

domain of nutrition, I use pretty strong scientific criteria.

With animals, this (ribs showing) has been a rewarding criterion over the

years. My endurance racing competition horses feel great, and do very, very

well, winning many races against others carrying much lighter riders

(women). Aging dogs run like pups when just skinny enough to elicit

occasional comments.

I hope not to be rejected by this great group for my lack of more useful

information...but it's the plain truth.

I'm 68 years old, overcame a cardiac valvular defect (horse back injury)

which caused atrial fibrillation. This was done by rejecting all three Rx's

by my cardiologists and learning about nutritional CURE...i dare to use THAT

word, because it's true. I run with my new Border Collie puppy, do vigorous

sheep herding training with him, work out on the treadmill, and ride my

horses all despite the dire predictions of the MD's ( " you won't make it six

months " ---four years ago), and based on eating less, eating well, and using

literally dozens of supplements daily to supply missing nutrients in our

food supply and our limited quantities.

CR should be an even larger part of my program, but I am weak. Katrina's

notes have really helped me...a lot. And so, I wished only to reify and

amplify her suggestions for the possible benefit of others struggling as I

do, not to over eat. And of course, I also wished to thank her for her

excellent prose and clarity, and cogent, persuasive argument.

If others would share with me that it works for them too, I would be

grateful...kind of like a few case histories are more convincing than 10 of

the most rigorous scientific, placebo controlled, double blind, cross-over,

statistically significant studies of thousands.

Kind of like: " If it works for you, it can work for me too " . Leading is

often more effective than pushing.

on 9/18/05 12:00 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

> Hi :

>

> Good to hear you have things under control. Just out of curiosity

> what method(s) did you use to determine your ideal weight? There has

> been quite a bit of healthy discussion of this here in the past and

> there is far from full agreement here about it. Indeed my views

> about what my ideal weight " is " have changed quite considerably over

> the years. ty.

>

> Rodney.

>

>

>> Katrina,

>> Your ideas resonate with my experiences. I notice myself

> saying, " I'm just

>> tired of eating " when in the non-addictive phases. I've also

> noticed that

>> the " bland " foods start tasting better, actually pretty good, but

> not good

>> enough to binge on....just satisfying.

>>

>> Thanks for reifying this for me. I'm a binger/yo-yo type. With only

> 15 lbs

>> to go to my ideal BW, this might do the trick...finally.

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Rodney,

With trepidations about revealing my inadequacies, I must admit that I have

chosen my ideal weight by unscientific means; namely, just having ribs

showing, and a flat or even concave abdomen without " sucking it in " . In the

domain of nutrition, I use pretty strong scientific criteria.

With animals, this (ribs showing) has been a rewarding criterion over the

years. My endurance racing competition horses feel great, and do very, very

well, winning many races against others carrying much lighter riders

(women). Aging dogs run like pups when just skinny enough to elicit

occasional comments.

I hope not to be rejected by this great group for my lack of more useful

information...but it's the plain truth.

I'm 68 years old, overcame a cardiac valvular defect (horse back injury)

which caused atrial fibrillation. This was done by rejecting all three Rx's

by my cardiologists and learning about nutritional CURE...i dare to use THAT

word, because it's true. I run with my new Border Collie puppy, do vigorous

sheep herding training with him, work out on the treadmill, and ride my

horses all despite the dire predictions of the MD's ( " you won't make it six

months " ---four years ago), and based on eating less, eating well, and using

literally dozens of supplements daily to supply missing nutrients in our

food supply and our limited quantities.

CR should be an even larger part of my program, but I am weak. Katrina's

notes have really helped me...a lot. And so, I wished only to reify and

amplify her suggestions for the possible benefit of others struggling as I

do, not to over eat. And of course, I also wished to thank her for her

excellent prose and clarity, and cogent, persuasive argument.

If others would share with me that it works for them too, I would be

grateful...kind of like a few case histories are more convincing than 10 of

the most rigorous scientific, placebo controlled, double blind, cross-over,

statistically significant studies of thousands.

Kind of like: " If it works for you, it can work for me too " . Leading is

often more effective than pushing.

on 9/18/05 12:00 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

> Hi :

>

> Good to hear you have things under control. Just out of curiosity

> what method(s) did you use to determine your ideal weight? There has

> been quite a bit of healthy discussion of this here in the past and

> there is far from full agreement here about it. Indeed my views

> about what my ideal weight " is " have changed quite considerably over

> the years. ty.

>

> Rodney.

>

>

>> Katrina,

>> Your ideas resonate with my experiences. I notice myself

> saying, " I'm just

>> tired of eating " when in the non-addictive phases. I've also

> noticed that

>> the " bland " foods start tasting better, actually pretty good, but

> not good

>> enough to binge on....just satisfying.

>>

>> Thanks for reifying this for me. I'm a binger/yo-yo type. With only

> 15 lbs

>> to go to my ideal BW, this might do the trick...finally.

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just a word of caution. Katrina may be much younger than you. Having " ribs " showing and a concave stomach at the age of 68 (assuming you started dong this lately) may be dangerous. Walford cautions against extremism if you are in your senior years - in fact animals in the lab that were " of an age " died YOUNGER not older that ad libs on extreme CR. Moderation is the watchword for us older folks.

See " BT120YD " and our files for detailed information on age related CR. In fact our files contain scientific info that a BMI under 18.5 or so may not be as healthy as one between 18.5 and 22 for persons of ANY age, not just seniors.

on 9/21/2005 11:11 PM, Seedman, D.V.M. at beyondreach@... wrote:

Hi Rodney,

With trepidations about revealing my inadequacies, I must admit that I have

chosen my ideal weight by unscientific means; namely, just having ribs

showing, and a flat or even concave abdomen without " sucking it in " . In the

domain of nutrition, I use pretty strong scientific criteria.

With animals, this (ribs showing) has been a rewarding criterion over the

years. My endurance racing competition horses feel great, and do very, very

well, winning many races against others carrying much lighter riders

(women). Aging dogs run like pups when just skinny enough to elicit

occasional comments.

I hope not to be rejected by this great group for my lack of more useful

information...but it's the plain truth.

I'm 68 years old, overcame a cardiac valvular defect (horse back injury)

which caused atrial fibrillation. This was done by rejecting all three Rx's

by my cardiologists and learning about nutritional CURE...i dare to use THAT

word, because it's true. I run with my new Border Collie puppy, do vigorous

sheep herding training with him, work out on the treadmill, and ride my

horses all despite the dire predictions of the MD's ( " you won't make it six

months " ---four years ago), and based on eating less, eating well, and using

literally dozens of supplements daily to supply missing nutrients in our

food supply and our limited quantities.

CR should be an even larger part of my program, but I am weak. Katrina's

notes have really helped me...a lot. And so, I wished only to reify and

amplify her suggestions for the possible benefit of others struggling as I

do, not to over eat. And of course, I also wished to thank her for her

excellent prose and clarity, and cogent, persuasive argument.

If others would share with me that it works for them too, I would be

grateful...kind of like a few case histories are more convincing than 10 of

the most rigorous scientific, placebo controlled, double blind, cross-over,

statistically significant studies of thousands.

Kind of like: " If it works for you, it can work for me too " . Leading is

often more effective than pushing.

on 9/18/05 12:00 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

> Hi :

>

> Good to hear you have things under control. Just out of curiosity

> what method(s) did you use to determine your ideal weight? There has

> been quite a bit of healthy discussion of this here in the past and

> there is far from full agreement here about it. Indeed my views

> about what my ideal weight " is " have changed quite considerably over

> the years. ty.

>

> Rodney.

>

>

>> Katrina,

>> Your ideas resonate with my experiences. I notice myself

> saying, " I'm just

>> tired of eating " when in the non-addictive phases. I've also

> noticed that

>> the " bland " foods start tasting better, actually pretty good, but

> not good

>> enough to binge on....just satisfying.

>>

>> Thanks for reifying this for me. I'm a binger/yo-yo type. With only

> 15 lbs

>> to go to my ideal BW, this might do the trick...finally.

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just a word of caution. Katrina may be much younger than you. Having " ribs " showing and a concave stomach at the age of 68 (assuming you started dong this lately) may be dangerous. Walford cautions against extremism if you are in your senior years - in fact animals in the lab that were " of an age " died YOUNGER not older that ad libs on extreme CR. Moderation is the watchword for us older folks.

See " BT120YD " and our files for detailed information on age related CR. In fact our files contain scientific info that a BMI under 18.5 or so may not be as healthy as one between 18.5 and 22 for persons of ANY age, not just seniors.

on 9/21/2005 11:11 PM, Seedman, D.V.M. at beyondreach@... wrote:

Hi Rodney,

With trepidations about revealing my inadequacies, I must admit that I have

chosen my ideal weight by unscientific means; namely, just having ribs

showing, and a flat or even concave abdomen without " sucking it in " . In the

domain of nutrition, I use pretty strong scientific criteria.

With animals, this (ribs showing) has been a rewarding criterion over the

years. My endurance racing competition horses feel great, and do very, very

well, winning many races against others carrying much lighter riders

(women). Aging dogs run like pups when just skinny enough to elicit

occasional comments.

I hope not to be rejected by this great group for my lack of more useful

information...but it's the plain truth.

I'm 68 years old, overcame a cardiac valvular defect (horse back injury)

which caused atrial fibrillation. This was done by rejecting all three Rx's

by my cardiologists and learning about nutritional CURE...i dare to use THAT

word, because it's true. I run with my new Border Collie puppy, do vigorous

sheep herding training with him, work out on the treadmill, and ride my

horses all despite the dire predictions of the MD's ( " you won't make it six

months " ---four years ago), and based on eating less, eating well, and using

literally dozens of supplements daily to supply missing nutrients in our

food supply and our limited quantities.

CR should be an even larger part of my program, but I am weak. Katrina's

notes have really helped me...a lot. And so, I wished only to reify and

amplify her suggestions for the possible benefit of others struggling as I

do, not to over eat. And of course, I also wished to thank her for her

excellent prose and clarity, and cogent, persuasive argument.

If others would share with me that it works for them too, I would be

grateful...kind of like a few case histories are more convincing than 10 of

the most rigorous scientific, placebo controlled, double blind, cross-over,

statistically significant studies of thousands.

Kind of like: " If it works for you, it can work for me too " . Leading is

often more effective than pushing.

on 9/18/05 12:00 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

> Hi :

>

> Good to hear you have things under control. Just out of curiosity

> what method(s) did you use to determine your ideal weight? There has

> been quite a bit of healthy discussion of this here in the past and

> there is far from full agreement here about it. Indeed my views

> about what my ideal weight " is " have changed quite considerably over

> the years. ty.

>

> Rodney.

>

>

>> Katrina,

>> Your ideas resonate with my experiences. I notice myself

> saying, " I'm just

>> tired of eating " when in the non-addictive phases. I've also

> noticed that

>> the " bland " foods start tasting better, actually pretty good, but

> not good

>> enough to binge on....just satisfying.

>>

>> Thanks for reifying this for me. I'm a binger/yo-yo type. With only

> 15 lbs

>> to go to my ideal BW, this might do the trick...finally.

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Francesca,

No intent to imply extreme CR. Slight rib showing is what I meant. Working towards 1850 cal/d or so, depending on that day’s activity.

Moderation is most probably, in all likelihood, the usually preferable road in most cases, as far as we know at this point (just kidding...I think you are absolutely right, and appreciate your concern and information.)

on 9/22/05 5:53 AM, Francesca Skelton at fskelton@... wrote:

Just a word of caution. Katrina may be much younger than you. Having " ribs " showing and a concave stomach at the age of 68 (assuming you started dong this lately) may be dangerous. Walford cautions against extremism if you are in your senior years - in fact animals in the lab that were " of an age " died YOUNGER not older that ad libs on extreme CR. Moderation is the watchword for us older folks.

See " BT120YD " and our files for detailed information on age related CR. In fact our files contain scientific info that a BMI under 18.5 or so may not be as healthy as one between 18.5 and 22 for persons of ANY age, not just seniors.

on 9/21/2005 11:11 PM, Seedman, D.V.M. at beyondreach@... wrote:

Hi Rodney,

With trepidations about revealing my inadequacies, I must admit that I have

chosen my ideal weight by unscientific means; namely, just having ribs

showing, and a flat or even concave abdomen without " sucking it in " . In the

domain of nutrition, I use pretty strong scientific criteria.

With animals, this (ribs showing) has been a rewarding criterion over the

years. My endurance racing competition horses feel great, and do very, very

well, winning many races against others carrying much lighter riders

(women). Aging dogs run like pups when just skinny enough to elicit

occasional comments.

I hope not to be rejected by this great group for my lack of more useful

information...but it's the plain truth.

I'm 68 years old, overcame a cardiac valvular defect (horse back injury)

which caused atrial fibrillation. This was done by rejecting all three Rx's

by my cardiologists and learning about nutritional CURE...i dare to use THAT

word, because it's true. I run with my new Border Collie puppy, do vigorous

sheep herding training with him, work out on the treadmill, and ride my

horses all despite the dire predictions of the MD's ( " you won't make it six

months " ---four years ago), and based on eating less, eating well, and using

literally dozens of supplements daily to supply missing nutrients in our

food supply and our limited quantities.

CR should be an even larger part of my program, but I am weak. Katrina's

notes have really helped me...a lot. And so, I wished only to reify and

amplify her suggestions for the possible benefit of others struggling as I

do, not to over eat. And of course, I also wished to thank her for her

excellent prose and clarity, and cogent, persuasive argument.

If others would share with me that it works for them too, I would be

grateful...kind of like a few case histories are more convincing than 10 of

the most rigorous scientific, placebo controlled, double blind, cross-over,

statistically significant studies of thousands.

Kind of like: " If it works for you, it can work for me too " . Leading is

often more effective than pushing.

on 9/18/05 12:00 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

> Hi :

>

> Good to hear you have things under control. Just out of curiosity

> what method(s) did you use to determine your ideal weight? There has

> been quite a bit of healthy discussion of this here in the past and

> there is far from full agreement here about it. Indeed my views

> about what my ideal weight " is " have changed quite considerably over

> the years. ty.

>

> Rodney.

>

>

>> Katrina,

>> Your ideas resonate with my experiences. I notice myself

> saying, " I'm just

>> tired of eating " when in the non-addictive phases. I've also

> noticed that

>> the " bland " foods start tasting better, actually pretty good, but

> not good

>> enough to binge on....just satisfying.

>>

>> Thanks for reifying this for me. I'm a binger/yo-yo type. With only

> 15 lbs

>> to go to my ideal BW, this might do the trick...finally.

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Francesca,

No intent to imply extreme CR. Slight rib showing is what I meant. Working towards 1850 cal/d or so, depending on that day’s activity.

Moderation is most probably, in all likelihood, the usually preferable road in most cases, as far as we know at this point (just kidding...I think you are absolutely right, and appreciate your concern and information.)

on 9/22/05 5:53 AM, Francesca Skelton at fskelton@... wrote:

Just a word of caution. Katrina may be much younger than you. Having " ribs " showing and a concave stomach at the age of 68 (assuming you started dong this lately) may be dangerous. Walford cautions against extremism if you are in your senior years - in fact animals in the lab that were " of an age " died YOUNGER not older that ad libs on extreme CR. Moderation is the watchword for us older folks.

See " BT120YD " and our files for detailed information on age related CR. In fact our files contain scientific info that a BMI under 18.5 or so may not be as healthy as one between 18.5 and 22 for persons of ANY age, not just seniors.

on 9/21/2005 11:11 PM, Seedman, D.V.M. at beyondreach@... wrote:

Hi Rodney,

With trepidations about revealing my inadequacies, I must admit that I have

chosen my ideal weight by unscientific means; namely, just having ribs

showing, and a flat or even concave abdomen without " sucking it in " . In the

domain of nutrition, I use pretty strong scientific criteria.

With animals, this (ribs showing) has been a rewarding criterion over the

years. My endurance racing competition horses feel great, and do very, very

well, winning many races against others carrying much lighter riders

(women). Aging dogs run like pups when just skinny enough to elicit

occasional comments.

I hope not to be rejected by this great group for my lack of more useful

information...but it's the plain truth.

I'm 68 years old, overcame a cardiac valvular defect (horse back injury)

which caused atrial fibrillation. This was done by rejecting all three Rx's

by my cardiologists and learning about nutritional CURE...i dare to use THAT

word, because it's true. I run with my new Border Collie puppy, do vigorous

sheep herding training with him, work out on the treadmill, and ride my

horses all despite the dire predictions of the MD's ( " you won't make it six

months " ---four years ago), and based on eating less, eating well, and using

literally dozens of supplements daily to supply missing nutrients in our

food supply and our limited quantities.

CR should be an even larger part of my program, but I am weak. Katrina's

notes have really helped me...a lot. And so, I wished only to reify and

amplify her suggestions for the possible benefit of others struggling as I

do, not to over eat. And of course, I also wished to thank her for her

excellent prose and clarity, and cogent, persuasive argument.

If others would share with me that it works for them too, I would be

grateful...kind of like a few case histories are more convincing than 10 of

the most rigorous scientific, placebo controlled, double blind, cross-over,

statistically significant studies of thousands.

Kind of like: " If it works for you, it can work for me too " . Leading is

often more effective than pushing.

on 9/18/05 12:00 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

> Hi :

>

> Good to hear you have things under control. Just out of curiosity

> what method(s) did you use to determine your ideal weight? There has

> been quite a bit of healthy discussion of this here in the past and

> there is far from full agreement here about it. Indeed my views

> about what my ideal weight " is " have changed quite considerably over

> the years. ty.

>

> Rodney.

>

>

>> Katrina,

>> Your ideas resonate with my experiences. I notice myself

> saying, " I'm just

>> tired of eating " when in the non-addictive phases. I've also

> noticed that

>> the " bland " foods start tasting better, actually pretty good, but

> not good

>> enough to binge on....just satisfying.

>>

>> Thanks for reifying this for me. I'm a binger/yo-yo type. With only

> 15 lbs

>> to go to my ideal BW, this might do the trick...finally.

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>