Re: Re: Heart longevity and health factors

[Guest guest]

[ ] Re: Heart longevity and health factors ***BUT*** what I do find REALLY interesting in that study is that among the ten supposed risk factors studied fully half were NOT associated with better survival. And what were the factors that were **NOT** associated with better survival? ....................BMIPHYSICAL ACTIVITYPULSE PRESSUREANTIHYPERTENSIVE MEDICATIONELECTROCARDIOGRAPHIC LEFT VENTRICULAR HYPERTROPHY--I would think that the supported lower-midlife-BP factor would in some cases reflect the successful application of antihypertensive medications, but the physical activity and BMI per se exclusions should give the Conventional Health Gospel Pharisees fits.

Maco

[Guest guest]

[ ] Re: Heart longevity and health factors ***BUT*** what I do find REALLY interesting in that study is that among the ten supposed risk factors studied fully half were NOT associated with better survival. And what were the factors that were **NOT** associated with better survival? ....................BMIPHYSICAL ACTIVITYPULSE PRESSUREANTIHYPERTENSIVE MEDICATIONELECTROCARDIOGRAPHIC LEFT VENTRICULAR HYPERTROPHY--I would think that the supported lower-midlife-BP factor would in some cases reflect the successful application of antihypertensive medications, but the physical activity and BMI per se exclusions should give the Conventional Health Gospel Pharisees fits.

Maco

[Guest guest]

--- Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote:

> And what were the factors that were **NOT** associated with better

> survival? ....................

>

> BMI

> PHYSICAL ACTIVITY

> PULSE PRESSURE

> ANTIHYPERTENSIVE MEDICATION

> ELECTROCARDIOGRAPHIC LEFT VENTRICULAR HYPERTROPHY

Hi All,

The BMI and physical activity were interesting factors of no import.

But:

> None of the individuals with a diagnosis of electrocardiographic

left ventricular

> hypertrophy between ages 40 and 50 survived to age 85. Analogous to

diabetes

> mellitus, the uniform lethality of left ventricular hypertrophy in

this series may

> be in part due to the less-aggressive approach to the treatment of

blood pressure

> during the earlier part of follow-up.

Other reasons for some of the other exceptions are in the text.

===============================

> > Terry DF, Pencina MJ, Vasan RS, Murabito JM, Wolf PA, MK,

> Levy D, D'Agostino

> > RB, EJ.

> > Cardiovascular risk factors predictive for survival and morbidity-

> free survival in

> > the oldest-old framingham heart study participants.

> > J Am Geriatr Soc. 2005 Nov;53(11):1944-50.

> > PMID: 16274376

Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@...

__________________________________

- PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.

[Guest guest]

--- Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote:

> And what were the factors that were **NOT** associated with better

> survival? ....................

>

> BMI

> PHYSICAL ACTIVITY

> PULSE PRESSURE

> ANTIHYPERTENSIVE MEDICATION

> ELECTROCARDIOGRAPHIC LEFT VENTRICULAR HYPERTROPHY

Hi All,

The BMI and physical activity were interesting factors of no import.

But:

> None of the individuals with a diagnosis of electrocardiographic

left ventricular

> hypertrophy between ages 40 and 50 survived to age 85. Analogous to

diabetes

> mellitus, the uniform lethality of left ventricular hypertrophy in

this series may

> be in part due to the less-aggressive approach to the treatment of

blood pressure

> during the earlier part of follow-up.

Other reasons for some of the other exceptions are in the text.

===============================

> > Terry DF, Pencina MJ, Vasan RS, Murabito JM, Wolf PA, MK,

> Levy D, D'Agostino

> > RB, EJ.

> > Cardiovascular risk factors predictive for survival and morbidity-

> free survival in

> > the oldest-old framingham heart study participants.

> > J Am Geriatr Soc. 2005 Nov;53(11):1944-50.

> > PMID: 16274376

Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@...

__________________________________

- PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.

[Guest guest]

[ ] Re: Heart longevity and health factors

> ................ And what were the factors that were **NOT** > associated with better survival? ....................> > BMI> PHYSICAL ACTIVITY> PULSE PRESSURE> ANTIHYPERTENSIVE MEDICATION> ELECTROCARDIOGRAPHIC LEFT VENTRICULAR HYPERTROPHY> > chuckle, chuckle ..................> > Rodney.

I read this outloud to my wife:

"Conclusion: Lower levels of key cardiovascular risk factors in middle age predicted overall survival and major morbidity-free survival to age 85. "

And she laughed.

But the next statement:

"Recognizing and modifying these factors may delay, if not prevent, age-related morbidity and mortality."

Uses that hated word "may" instead of the correct word "might".

Well, it assumes that we CAN modify the risk factors. But, of course, we have little choice in things we think we can change such as weight to overcome glucose intolerance, obesity, high blood pressure. And some of these things can change morbidity, maybe delay strokes, dementia, etc.

Exercise always gets an assumed ride in the weight loss category, for some reason.

TOL, maybe excess exercise induces so much arthritis, joint pain, accidents that we're forced to retire at age and use more anti-inflammatory? (ha)

Regards.

[Guest guest]

[ ] Re: Heart longevity and health factors

> ................ And what were the factors that were **NOT** > associated with better survival? ....................> > BMI> PHYSICAL ACTIVITY> PULSE PRESSURE> ANTIHYPERTENSIVE MEDICATION> ELECTROCARDIOGRAPHIC LEFT VENTRICULAR HYPERTROPHY> > chuckle, chuckle ..................> > Rodney.

I read this outloud to my wife:

"Conclusion: Lower levels of key cardiovascular risk factors in middle age predicted overall survival and major morbidity-free survival to age 85. "

And she laughed.

But the next statement:

"Recognizing and modifying these factors may delay, if not prevent, age-related morbidity and mortality."

Uses that hated word "may" instead of the correct word "might".

Well, it assumes that we CAN modify the risk factors. But, of course, we have little choice in things we think we can change such as weight to overcome glucose intolerance, obesity, high blood pressure. And some of these things can change morbidity, maybe delay strokes, dementia, etc.

Exercise always gets an assumed ride in the weight loss category, for some reason.

TOL, maybe excess exercise induces so much arthritis, joint pain, accidents that we're forced to retire at age and use more anti-inflammatory? (ha)

Regards.

[Guest guest]

Agree with maybe preventing lower mortality/morbidity.

But the fact is we don't know that modifying it will AND we don't know what the side effects MIGHT be. Like losing weight might be good, but it might induce loss of the "wrong" muscle mass also.

We have evidence that using hypertensive medication will lower mortality, and that should in all probability be used.

I'm not so sure about a drug, eg, that would lower weight, especially in the "overweight" BMI class.

So my conclusion is that even if we think we CAN modify the risk does not "allow" the technique to do that.

Regards.

[ ] Re: Heart longevity and health factors

Hi JW:Let me put myself on record as being much in favor of anything that stands a chance of (even "may") prevent mortality. LOLRodney.> But the next statement:> "Recognizing and modifying these factors may delay, if not prevent, age-related morbidity and mortality."

[Guest guest]

Agree with maybe preventing lower mortality/morbidity.

But the fact is we don't know that modifying it will AND we don't know what the side effects MIGHT be. Like losing weight might be good, but it might induce loss of the "wrong" muscle mass also.

We have evidence that using hypertensive medication will lower mortality, and that should in all probability be used.

I'm not so sure about a drug, eg, that would lower weight, especially in the "overweight" BMI class.

So my conclusion is that even if we think we CAN modify the risk does not "allow" the technique to do that.

Regards.

[ ] Re: Heart longevity and health factors

Hi JW:Let me put myself on record as being much in favor of anything that stands a chance of (even "may") prevent mortality. LOLRodney.> But the next statement:> "Recognizing and modifying these factors may delay, if not prevent, age-related morbidity and mortality."

[Guest guest]

--- jwwright <jwwright@...> wrote:

> " Recognizing and modifying these factors may delay, if not prevent,

age-related

> morbidity and mortality. "

>

> Uses that hated word " may " instead of the correct word " might " .

>

> Well, it assumes that we CAN modify the risk factors.

Hi All,

My thesaurus says that may means might and synonyms are might, can, could,

possibly

will, may well, may perhaps and may possibly.

Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@...

__________________________________

- PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.

[Guest guest]

--- jwwright <jwwright@...> wrote:

> " Recognizing and modifying these factors may delay, if not prevent,

age-related

> morbidity and mortality. "

>

> Uses that hated word " may " instead of the correct word " might " .

>

> Well, it assumes that we CAN modify the risk factors.

Hi All,

My thesaurus says that may means might and synonyms are might, can, could,

possibly

will, may well, may perhaps and may possibly.

Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@...

__________________________________

- PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.

[Guest guest]

That may be Alan, but I was taught differently.

I realize I've been superceded.

I feel a lot more comfortable if they would use a word that is not ambiguous, as in might does not mean allow.

Sounds like you agree the usage here is "might"?

Is there a thesaurus for medical literature?

Regards.

Re: [ ] Re: Heart longevity and health factors

--- jwwright <jwwright@...> wrote:> "Recognizing and modifying these factors may delay, if not prevent, age-related> morbidity and mortality."> > Uses that hated word "may" instead of the correct word "might".> > Well, it assumes that we CAN modify the risk factors.Hi All,My thesaurus says that may means might and synonyms are might, can, could, possiblywill, may well, may perhaps and may possibly.Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@...

[Guest guest]

That may be Alan, but I was taught differently.

I realize I've been superceded.

I feel a lot more comfortable if they would use a word that is not ambiguous, as in might does not mean allow.

Sounds like you agree the usage here is "might"?

Is there a thesaurus for medical literature?

Regards.

Re: [ ] Re: Heart longevity and health factors

--- jwwright <jwwright@...> wrote:> "Recognizing and modifying these factors may delay, if not prevent, age-related> morbidity and mortality."> > Uses that hated word "may" instead of the correct word "might".> > Well, it assumes that we CAN modify the risk factors.Hi All,My thesaurus says that may means might and synonyms are might, can, could, possiblywill, may well, may perhaps and may possibly.Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@...