Re: Is Heart Surgery Worth It

[Guest guest]

Hi Jeff:

As Ornish was reported to have said in response to 'mainstream'

criticism of his work: " It now appears to have become accepted that

triple bypass heart surgery is conservative medicine. But

recommending that patients undertake lifestyle changes is considered

radical " (quote only approximate, from memory)

Rodney.

--- In , " Jeff Novick " <jnovick@p...>

wrote:

> Highlights of July 18, 2005 BusinessWeek article

>

>

> All of these are direct quotes from Business Week's July 18

article: " Is Heart Surgery Worth It? "

>

> * " Data from clinical trials are clear: Except in a minority of

patients with severe disease, bypass operations don't prolong life or

prevent future heart attacks. Nor does angioplasty . . . "

>

> * " Without better trial data, we won't know if improvements in

pain relief justify the risks of the surgery. "

>

> * " Not only is there a 1% to 2% chance of dying during a bypass

operation, " says Dr. Nortin Hadler, professor of medicine at the

University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and author of The Last

Well Person, " there is a high risk of complications and a 40% chance

of cognitive defects The healthy, active post-surgery patient is an

urban legend. An alarming number never return to the workforce or

describe themselves as well again. "

>

> * " There are also fresh concerns about the safety of drug-coated

stents, now widely used in angioplasty. . . . people getting these

new stents might have a higher risk of clots, which could then cause

heart attacks more than a month after the procedure. "

>

> * Says Dr. Topol of Cleveland Clinic Foundation: " Out of 100

patients who get a drug-coated stent, maybe 10 will avoid a repeat

procedure. "

>

> * " There is compelling evidence that aggressive treatment [like

heart surgeries] are not necessarily better. . . Says professor of

medicine at Dartmouth Dr. Elliott Fisher: " We are wasting 30% of

health-care spending on stuff with no benefit and perhaps causing

harm. "

>

> * Dr. Laham of Harvard Medical School says that as many as

400,000 of the angioplasties done in the U.S. each year may be

medically unwarranted. " I'm sure we are way overtreating our

patients. "

>

> * " A better way to lower heart-attack risk is to fight the

unstable plaque with aggressive cholesterol-reducing drug therapy,

diet, and lifestyle changes, many cardiac physicians say. "

[Guest guest]

Hi Jeff:

As Ornish was reported to have said in response to 'mainstream'

criticism of his work: " It now appears to have become accepted that

triple bypass heart surgery is conservative medicine. But

recommending that patients undertake lifestyle changes is considered

radical " (quote only approximate, from memory)

Rodney.

--- In , " Jeff Novick " <jnovick@p...>

wrote:

> Highlights of July 18, 2005 BusinessWeek article

>

>

> All of these are direct quotes from Business Week's July 18

article: " Is Heart Surgery Worth It? "

>

> * " Data from clinical trials are clear: Except in a minority of

patients with severe disease, bypass operations don't prolong life or

prevent future heart attacks. Nor does angioplasty . . . "

>

> * " Without better trial data, we won't know if improvements in

pain relief justify the risks of the surgery. "

>

> * " Not only is there a 1% to 2% chance of dying during a bypass

operation, " says Dr. Nortin Hadler, professor of medicine at the

University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and author of The Last

Well Person, " there is a high risk of complications and a 40% chance

of cognitive defects The healthy, active post-surgery patient is an

urban legend. An alarming number never return to the workforce or

describe themselves as well again. "

>

> * " There are also fresh concerns about the safety of drug-coated

stents, now widely used in angioplasty. . . . people getting these

new stents might have a higher risk of clots, which could then cause

heart attacks more than a month after the procedure. "

>

> * Says Dr. Topol of Cleveland Clinic Foundation: " Out of 100

patients who get a drug-coated stent, maybe 10 will avoid a repeat

procedure. "

>

> * " There is compelling evidence that aggressive treatment [like

heart surgeries] are not necessarily better. . . Says professor of

medicine at Dartmouth Dr. Elliott Fisher: " We are wasting 30% of

health-care spending on stuff with no benefit and perhaps causing

harm. "

>

> * Dr. Laham of Harvard Medical School says that as many as

400,000 of the angioplasties done in the U.S. each year may be

medically unwarranted. " I'm sure we are way overtreating our

patients. "

>

> * " A better way to lower heart-attack risk is to fight the

unstable plaque with aggressive cholesterol-reducing drug therapy,

diet, and lifestyle changes, many cardiac physicians say. "

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the post.

The guy before me on the stress test collapsed on the treddy. I guess they shouldn't have taken him to Luke's? He was still walking before he got on the treddy.

I think Drs still have to treat people, but it points out to us that we better get on the right diet and exercise track now. Regardless of age. You don't have to be old to die of a heart attack.

The engr next to me in 1994, 36yo - his younger bro died - described as a brilliant, but obese computer guy.

And there are other problems not talked much - we have a 55yo neighbor who can't walk because of limited leg arteries, recovering alcoholic.

Regards.

[ ] Is Heart Surgery Worth It

Highlights of July 18, 2005 BusinessWeek article All of these are direct quotes from Business Week's July 18 article: "Is Heart Surgery Worth It?" (TO WHOM?} * "Data from clinical trials are clear: Except in a minority of patients with severe disease, bypass operations don't prolong life or prevent future heart attacks. Nor does angioplasty . . . " {so you see a blockage on the angiogram, or other and you choose NOT to TREAT it? I don't think so.} * "Without better trial data, we won't know if improvements in pain relief justify the risks of the surgery." {Pain indicates a blockage - lack of blood to the heart. Not a question of pain, rather the cause.}* "Not only is there a 1% to 2% chance of dying during a bypass operation," says Dr. Nortin Hadler, professor of medicine at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and author of The Last Well Person, "there is a high risk of complications and a 40% chance of cognitive defects The healthy, active post-surgery patient is an urban legend. An alarming number never return to the workforce or describe themselves as well again.{You mean sick people could be described as being sick?}"

* "There are also fresh concerns about the safety of drug-coated stents, now widely used in angioplasty. . . . people getting these new stents might have a higher risk of clots, which could then cause heart attacks more than a month after the procedure."{thinners?}* Says Dr. Topol of Cleveland Clinic Foundation: "Out of 100 patients who get a drug-coated stent, maybe 10 will avoid a repeat procedure."* "There is compelling evidence that aggressive treatment [like heart surgeries] are not necessarily better. . . Says professor of medicine at Dartmouth Dr. Elliott Fisher: "We are wasting 30% of health-care spending on stuff with no benefit {like experience perhaps} and perhaps causing harm {to a bad heart?}."* Dr. Laham of Harvard Medical School says that as many as 400,000 of the angioplasties done in the U.S. each year may be medically unwarranted. "I'm sure we are way overtreating our patients."{and I thought it's better to be safe than sorry}* "A better way to lower heart-attack risk is to fight the unstable plaque with aggressive cholesterol-reducing drug therapy, diet, and lifestyle changes, many cardiac physicians say." {preventative not the same domain as treatment}

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the post.

The guy before me on the stress test collapsed on the treddy. I guess they shouldn't have taken him to Luke's? He was still walking before he got on the treddy.

I think Drs still have to treat people, but it points out to us that we better get on the right diet and exercise track now. Regardless of age. You don't have to be old to die of a heart attack.

The engr next to me in 1994, 36yo - his younger bro died - described as a brilliant, but obese computer guy.

And there are other problems not talked much - we have a 55yo neighbor who can't walk because of limited leg arteries, recovering alcoholic.

Regards.

[ ] Is Heart Surgery Worth It

Highlights of July 18, 2005 BusinessWeek article All of these are direct quotes from Business Week's July 18 article: "Is Heart Surgery Worth It?" (TO WHOM?} * "Data from clinical trials are clear: Except in a minority of patients with severe disease, bypass operations don't prolong life or prevent future heart attacks. Nor does angioplasty . . . " {so you see a blockage on the angiogram, or other and you choose NOT to TREAT it? I don't think so.} * "Without better trial data, we won't know if improvements in pain relief justify the risks of the surgery." {Pain indicates a blockage - lack of blood to the heart. Not a question of pain, rather the cause.}* "Not only is there a 1% to 2% chance of dying during a bypass operation," says Dr. Nortin Hadler, professor of medicine at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and author of The Last Well Person, "there is a high risk of complications and a 40% chance of cognitive defects The healthy, active post-surgery patient is an urban legend. An alarming number never return to the workforce or describe themselves as well again.{You mean sick people could be described as being sick?}"

* "There are also fresh concerns about the safety of drug-coated stents, now widely used in angioplasty. . . . people getting these new stents might have a higher risk of clots, which could then cause heart attacks more than a month after the procedure."{thinners?}* Says Dr. Topol of Cleveland Clinic Foundation: "Out of 100 patients who get a drug-coated stent, maybe 10 will avoid a repeat procedure."* "There is compelling evidence that aggressive treatment [like heart surgeries] are not necessarily better. . . Says professor of medicine at Dartmouth Dr. Elliott Fisher: "We are wasting 30% of health-care spending on stuff with no benefit {like experience perhaps} and perhaps causing harm {to a bad heart?}."* Dr. Laham of Harvard Medical School says that as many as 400,000 of the angioplasties done in the U.S. each year may be medically unwarranted. "I'm sure we are way overtreating our patients."{and I thought it's better to be safe than sorry}* "A better way to lower heart-attack risk is to fight the unstable plaque with aggressive cholesterol-reducing drug therapy, diet, and lifestyle changes, many cardiac physicians say." {preventative not the same domain as treatment}

[Guest guest]

Hi Dennis:

Yes. And one gets a second opinion and, if it is major enough, a

third opinion, both of them from physicians who know they cannot

personally benefit either way whether you have the surgery or not.

Rodney.

>

> > Hi Jeff:

> >

> > As Ornish was reported to have said in response to 'mainstream'

> > criticism of his work: " It now appears to have become accepted

that

> > triple bypass heart surgery is conservative medicine. But

> > recommending that patients undertake lifestyle changes is

considered

> > radical " (quote only approximate, from memory)

> >

> > Rodney.

>

> I have a friend who had this and he was told that he would be fine

> afterwards. It was not true. For example as a former professional

> musician he has trouble singing now.

>

> For me and my prostate surgery, even though I had it done

> laposcopically, I am still not fully recovered after one year, I

> probably never will be.

>

> this is not to say that we should not have had the surgery... one

looks

> at the situation and then decides.

>

> Positive Dennis

[Guest guest]

Hi Dennis:

Yes. And one gets a second opinion and, if it is major enough, a

third opinion, both of them from physicians who know they cannot

personally benefit either way whether you have the surgery or not.

Rodney.

>

> > Hi Jeff:

> >

> > As Ornish was reported to have said in response to 'mainstream'

> > criticism of his work: " It now appears to have become accepted

that

> > triple bypass heart surgery is conservative medicine. But

> > recommending that patients undertake lifestyle changes is

considered

> > radical " (quote only approximate, from memory)

> >

> > Rodney.

>

> I have a friend who had this and he was told that he would be fine

> afterwards. It was not true. For example as a former professional

> musician he has trouble singing now.

>

> For me and my prostate surgery, even though I had it done

> laposcopically, I am still not fully recovered after one year, I

> probably never will be.

>

> this is not to say that we should not have had the surgery... one

looks

> at the situation and then decides.

>

> Positive Dennis