Re: Enzymes improve bioavailability of proteins and carbs

[Guest guest]

Hi Katrina:

This raises the issue for each of us whether we really are absorbing

the nutrients that we THINK we are getting. Because our software

tells us about the adequacy of the foods we put in our mouths, that

may not be helpful if we are not absorbing much/some of it.

Particularly so if the failure to absorb is selective and involves a

couple of important micronutrients.

This is an argument in favor of testing blood for amounts of

nutrients. Is there any other way to determine how much is actually

getting absorbed of each of the essential nutrients we consume? Do

we perhaps have important nutrient deficiencies we can have no way to

know about?

And if enzymes increase the absorption of calories then, of course,

we will have to exert still greater self control over how much we eat.

As regards your question about mice. The restricted mice lose a LOT

of weight. So one way or the other I think we know that they are

getting a lot fewer calories.

Rodney.

>

> http://www.nationalenzymecompany.com/data_files/TNO_Research_Web.pdf

>

> This study supposedly shows that enzymes improve the bioavailability

> of carbs and proteins. I wonder what effect this will have on

CRON?

> If we absorb more of what we eat, will that make us age more

quickly,

> or will we simply remain more healthy during those years and thus

> elongate our life even further?

>

> I've been on fairly high-dose enzymes for a few weeks now, and I go

to

> the bathroom about a quarter of the number of times that I used to

go.

> I also produce less waste with each visit. Sorry once again if

this

> is too much info, but this seems like a very important topic.

>

> Yes, I'm aware that I am probably challenged in the alimentary

> absorption arena, but the above study implies similar effects even

in

> ideal conditions. However, it was done under artificial conditions,

> so take the data with a pinch of salt. I only mention the study

> because my anecdotal experience backs it up. I " feel " like I am

> absorbing and utilitising my food more.

>

> Katrina.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Katrina:

This raises the issue for each of us whether we really are absorbing

the nutrients that we THINK we are getting. Because our software

tells us about the adequacy of the foods we put in our mouths, that

may not be helpful if we are not absorbing much/some of it.

Particularly so if the failure to absorb is selective and involves a

couple of important micronutrients.

This is an argument in favor of testing blood for amounts of

nutrients. Is there any other way to determine how much is actually

getting absorbed of each of the essential nutrients we consume? Do

we perhaps have important nutrient deficiencies we can have no way to

know about?

And if enzymes increase the absorption of calories then, of course,

we will have to exert still greater self control over how much we eat.

As regards your question about mice. The restricted mice lose a LOT

of weight. So one way or the other I think we know that they are

getting a lot fewer calories.

Rodney.

>

> http://www.nationalenzymecompany.com/data_files/TNO_Research_Web.pdf

>

> This study supposedly shows that enzymes improve the bioavailability

> of carbs and proteins. I wonder what effect this will have on

CRON?

> If we absorb more of what we eat, will that make us age more

quickly,

> or will we simply remain more healthy during those years and thus

> elongate our life even further?

>

> I've been on fairly high-dose enzymes for a few weeks now, and I go

to

> the bathroom about a quarter of the number of times that I used to

go.

> I also produce less waste with each visit. Sorry once again if

this

> is too much info, but this seems like a very important topic.

>

> Yes, I'm aware that I am probably challenged in the alimentary

> absorption arena, but the above study implies similar effects even

in

> ideal conditions. However, it was done under artificial conditions,

> so take the data with a pinch of salt. I only mention the study

> because my anecdotal experience backs it up. I " feel " like I am

> absorbing and utilitising my food more.

>

> Katrina.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Katrina:

A couple of additional points on this issue:

First, perhaps stool testing could determine what nutrients we are

not absorbing. But I have never heard of such tests.

Second, my guess is that people who throughout their lives are able

to, and do, eat as much as they want without putting on weight, are

those who do have an intestinal absorption issue. Now if it is just

fat or carbohydrate calories they are failing to absorb then likely

there is no problem. But if protein or other nutrients are part of

it then presumably they will suffer the problems associated with

nutrient deficiencies.

While the above makes sense to me, I am not aware of cases where it

has been shown that people who were eating plenty of, say, vitamin C,

still suffer from scurvy. Or those consuming plenty of vitamin D but

still have rickets. So perhaps I am out-to-lunch about this?

The absorption issue, as far as I can see, just never seems to be

discussed. Is this because it never happens? Or because it is an

under-recognized phenomenon?

Rodney.

--- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Katrina:

>

> This raises the issue for each of us whether we really are

absorbing

> the nutrients that we THINK we are getting. Because our software

> tells us about the adequacy of the foods we put in our mouths, that

> may not be helpful if we are not absorbing much/some of it.

> Particularly so if the failure to absorb is selective and involves

a

> couple of important micronutrients.

>

> This is an argument in favor of testing blood for amounts of

> nutrients. Is there any other way to determine how much is

actually

> getting absorbed of each of the essential nutrients we consume? Do

> we perhaps have important nutrient deficiencies we can have no way

to

> know about?

>

> And if enzymes increase the absorption of calories then, of course,

> we will have to exert still greater self control over how much we

eat.

>

> As regards your question about mice. The restricted mice lose a

LOT

> of weight. So one way or the other I think we know that they are

> getting a lot fewer calories.

>

> Rodney.

>

>

>

> --- In , " Katrina " <katnap@f...>

wrote:

> >

> >

http://www.nationalenzymecompany.com/data_files/TNO_Research_Web.pdf

> >

> > This study supposedly shows that enzymes improve the

bioavailability

> > of carbs and proteins. I wonder what effect this will have on

> CRON?

> > If we absorb more of what we eat, will that make us age more

> quickly,

> > or will we simply remain more healthy during those years and thus

> > elongate our life even further?

> >

> > I've been on fairly high-dose enzymes for a few weeks now, and I

go

> to

> > the bathroom about a quarter of the number of times that I used

to

> go.

> > I also produce less waste with each visit. Sorry once again if

> this

> > is too much info, but this seems like a very important topic.

> >

> > Yes, I'm aware that I am probably challenged in the alimentary

> > absorption arena, but the above study implies similar effects

even

> in

> > ideal conditions. However, it was done under artificial

conditions,

> > so take the data with a pinch of salt. I only mention the study

> > because my anecdotal experience backs it up. I " feel " like I am

> > absorbing and utilitising my food more.

> >

> > Katrina.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Katrina:

A couple of additional points on this issue:

First, perhaps stool testing could determine what nutrients we are

not absorbing. But I have never heard of such tests.

Second, my guess is that people who throughout their lives are able

to, and do, eat as much as they want without putting on weight, are

those who do have an intestinal absorption issue. Now if it is just

fat or carbohydrate calories they are failing to absorb then likely

there is no problem. But if protein or other nutrients are part of

it then presumably they will suffer the problems associated with

nutrient deficiencies.

While the above makes sense to me, I am not aware of cases where it

has been shown that people who were eating plenty of, say, vitamin C,

still suffer from scurvy. Or those consuming plenty of vitamin D but

still have rickets. So perhaps I am out-to-lunch about this?

The absorption issue, as far as I can see, just never seems to be

discussed. Is this because it never happens? Or because it is an

under-recognized phenomenon?

Rodney.

--- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Katrina:

>

> This raises the issue for each of us whether we really are

absorbing

> the nutrients that we THINK we are getting. Because our software

> tells us about the adequacy of the foods we put in our mouths, that

> may not be helpful if we are not absorbing much/some of it.

> Particularly so if the failure to absorb is selective and involves

a

> couple of important micronutrients.

>

> This is an argument in favor of testing blood for amounts of

> nutrients. Is there any other way to determine how much is

actually

> getting absorbed of each of the essential nutrients we consume? Do

> we perhaps have important nutrient deficiencies we can have no way

to

> know about?

>

> And if enzymes increase the absorption of calories then, of course,

> we will have to exert still greater self control over how much we

eat.

>

> As regards your question about mice. The restricted mice lose a

LOT

> of weight. So one way or the other I think we know that they are

> getting a lot fewer calories.

>

> Rodney.

>

>

>

> --- In , " Katrina " <katnap@f...>

wrote:

> >

> >

http://www.nationalenzymecompany.com/data_files/TNO_Research_Web.pdf

> >

> > This study supposedly shows that enzymes improve the

bioavailability

> > of carbs and proteins. I wonder what effect this will have on

> CRON?

> > If we absorb more of what we eat, will that make us age more

> quickly,

> > or will we simply remain more healthy during those years and thus

> > elongate our life even further?

> >

> > I've been on fairly high-dose enzymes for a few weeks now, and I

go

> to

> > the bathroom about a quarter of the number of times that I used

to

> go.

> > I also produce less waste with each visit. Sorry once again if

> this

> > is too much info, but this seems like a very important topic.

> >

> > Yes, I'm aware that I am probably challenged in the alimentary

> > absorption arena, but the above study implies similar effects

even

> in

> > ideal conditions. However, it was done under artificial

conditions,

> > so take the data with a pinch of salt. I only mention the study

> > because my anecdotal experience backs it up. I " feel " like I am

> > absorbing and utilitising my food more.

> >

> > Katrina.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> This raises the issue for each of us whether we really are absorbing

> the nutrients that we THINK we are getting.

Hi Rodney,

I completely agree. I have gained 15lbs in weight since starting enzymes.

> Because our software

> tells us about the adequacy of the foods we put in our mouths, that

> may not be helpful if we are not absorbing much/some of it.

> Particularly so if the failure to absorb is selective and involves a

> couple of important micronutrients.

I don't think any of us has a clue about how much we are really

absorbing. From what I saw of the study, it looks like all of us only

absorb part of what we eat.

> Do

> we perhaps have important nutrient deficiencies we can have no way to

> know about?

I suspect so. Didn't they recently discover a new vitamin in

fermented foods in Japan? Did Walford et al ensure their rats got

sufficient Vitamin D and Vitamin P?

> And if enzymes increase the absorption of calories then, of course,

> we will have to exert still greater self control over how much we eat.

Well, that's an assumption, isn't it? Is it the amount of calories we

process, or the amount we absorb?

> As regards your question about mice. The restricted mice lose a LOT

> of weight. So one way or the other I think we know that they are

> getting a lot fewer calories.

Yes, but it would be good to know that Walford et al used the proper

techniques. I checked one of his papers, and he mentioned

individually housing them, but no mention was made of sanitary procedures.

For all we know, their actual total reduction in calories may have

been less than stated in at least some of the studies.

K.

[Guest guest]

> This raises the issue for each of us whether we really are absorbing

> the nutrients that we THINK we are getting.

Hi Rodney,

I completely agree. I have gained 15lbs in weight since starting enzymes.

> Because our software

> tells us about the adequacy of the foods we put in our mouths, that

> may not be helpful if we are not absorbing much/some of it.

> Particularly so if the failure to absorb is selective and involves a

> couple of important micronutrients.

I don't think any of us has a clue about how much we are really

absorbing. From what I saw of the study, it looks like all of us only

absorb part of what we eat.

> Do

> we perhaps have important nutrient deficiencies we can have no way to

> know about?

I suspect so. Didn't they recently discover a new vitamin in

fermented foods in Japan? Did Walford et al ensure their rats got

sufficient Vitamin D and Vitamin P?

> And if enzymes increase the absorption of calories then, of course,

> we will have to exert still greater self control over how much we eat.

Well, that's an assumption, isn't it? Is it the amount of calories we

process, or the amount we absorb?

> As regards your question about mice. The restricted mice lose a LOT

> of weight. So one way or the other I think we know that they are

> getting a lot fewer calories.

Yes, but it would be good to know that Walford et al used the proper

techniques. I checked one of his papers, and he mentioned

individually housing them, but no mention was made of sanitary procedures.

For all we know, their actual total reduction in calories may have

been less than stated in at least some of the studies.

K.

[Guest guest]

> While the above makes sense to me, I am not aware of cases where it

> has been shown that people who were eating plenty of, say, vitamin C,

> still suffer from scurvy. Or those consuming plenty of vitamin D but

> still have rickets. So perhaps I am out-to-lunch about this?

Hi Rodney,

Perhaps those are extreme cases of nutrient deficiency. Perhaps

milder cases lead to mid-late-life cancer, heart problems, etc.? All

of us have read studies showing that if we eat more 'X' then we get

less cancer or heart attacks.

K.

[Guest guest]

> While the above makes sense to me, I am not aware of cases where it

> has been shown that people who were eating plenty of, say, vitamin C,

> still suffer from scurvy. Or those consuming plenty of vitamin D but

> still have rickets. So perhaps I am out-to-lunch about this?

Hi Rodney,

Perhaps those are extreme cases of nutrient deficiency. Perhaps

milder cases lead to mid-late-life cancer, heart problems, etc.? All

of us have read studies showing that if we eat more 'X' then we get

less cancer or heart attacks.

K.

[Guest guest]

Hi Katrina,

I remembered in another 'enzyme post' you'd said that they had helped

you a lot. So I was wondering if you were needing to gain weight? I

lost (and am still losing very gradually) 20 lbs in about 3 months

when I started certain enzymes on a regular basis. In fact I've never

heard of gaining weight on enzyme therapy unless it was someone who

wanted/needed to gain weight. What do you think was the reason for

this - if you don't mind my asking - and/or was this just in the

beginning and then it leveled back out to a desired weight later??

Also wondering if you're doing this on your own or if you're lucky

enough to have a health practitioner prescribing this?

Thanks!

Genesa

>

> > This raises the issue for each of us whether we really are absorbing

> > the nutrients that we THINK we are getting.

>

> Hi Rodney,

>

> I completely agree. I have gained 15lbs in weight since starting

enzymes.

>

> > Because our software

> > tells us about the adequacy of the foods we put in our mouths, that

> > may not be helpful if we are not absorbing much/some of it.

> > Particularly so if the failure to absorb is selective and involves a

> > couple of important micronutrients.

>

> I don't think any of us has a clue about how much we are really

> absorbing. From what I saw of the study, it looks like all of us only

> absorb part of what we eat.

>

> > Do

> > we perhaps have important nutrient deficiencies we can have no way to

> > know about?

>

> I suspect so. Didn't they recently discover a new vitamin in

> fermented foods in Japan? Did Walford et al ensure their rats got

> sufficient Vitamin D and Vitamin P?

>

> > And if enzymes increase the absorption of calories then, of course,

> > we will have to exert still greater self control over how much we eat.

>

> Well, that's an assumption, isn't it? Is it the amount of calories we

> process, or the amount we absorb?

>

> > As regards your question about mice. The restricted mice lose a LOT

> > of weight. So one way or the other I think we know that they are

> > getting a lot fewer calories.

>

> Yes, but it would be good to know that Walford et al used the proper

> techniques. I checked one of his papers, and he mentioned

> individually housing them, but no mention was made of sanitary

procedures.

>

> For all we know, their actual total reduction in calories may have

> been less than stated in at least some of the studies.

>

> K.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Katrina,

I remembered in another 'enzyme post' you'd said that they had helped

you a lot. So I was wondering if you were needing to gain weight? I

lost (and am still losing very gradually) 20 lbs in about 3 months

when I started certain enzymes on a regular basis. In fact I've never

heard of gaining weight on enzyme therapy unless it was someone who

wanted/needed to gain weight. What do you think was the reason for

this - if you don't mind my asking - and/or was this just in the

beginning and then it leveled back out to a desired weight later??

Also wondering if you're doing this on your own or if you're lucky

enough to have a health practitioner prescribing this?

Thanks!

Genesa

>

> > This raises the issue for each of us whether we really are absorbing

> > the nutrients that we THINK we are getting.

>

> Hi Rodney,

>

> I completely agree. I have gained 15lbs in weight since starting

enzymes.

>

> > Because our software

> > tells us about the adequacy of the foods we put in our mouths, that

> > may not be helpful if we are not absorbing much/some of it.

> > Particularly so if the failure to absorb is selective and involves a

> > couple of important micronutrients.

>

> I don't think any of us has a clue about how much we are really

> absorbing. From what I saw of the study, it looks like all of us only

> absorb part of what we eat.

>

> > Do

> > we perhaps have important nutrient deficiencies we can have no way to

> > know about?

>

> I suspect so. Didn't they recently discover a new vitamin in

> fermented foods in Japan? Did Walford et al ensure their rats got

> sufficient Vitamin D and Vitamin P?

>

> > And if enzymes increase the absorption of calories then, of course,

> > we will have to exert still greater self control over how much we eat.

>

> Well, that's an assumption, isn't it? Is it the amount of calories we

> process, or the amount we absorb?

>

> > As regards your question about mice. The restricted mice lose a LOT

> > of weight. So one way or the other I think we know that they are

> > getting a lot fewer calories.

>

> Yes, but it would be good to know that Walford et al used the proper

> techniques. I checked one of his papers, and he mentioned

> individually housing them, but no mention was made of sanitary

procedures.

>

> For all we know, their actual total reduction in calories may have

> been less than stated in at least some of the studies.

>

> K.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Genesa,

No, I do not need to gain weight. I am one of those people who do not

lose weight, despite being on a restricted calorie diet. I have

compared my intake and activity with others on a similar protocol, and

I am a good 40lbs heavier than them. Now that I have started the

enzymes, I am a good 60lbs heavier than them. People on the group

will no doubt say it is irrelevant and/or desirable to not lose

weight, but I consider it an indication that something is not working

as it should.

The weight has stayed on. And, no, I am not lucky enough to have a

health practitioner prescribe them for me. This is something that I

am doing on my own to try and resolve my digestive issues (which it

has done). I am even able to eat fruit now.

As for the reason for the weight gain: I am not sure. I suspect it

is because I am absorbing my food, and I no longer immediately eject

what I eat.

Katrina.

--- In , " truthseeker741 " <genesa@n...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Katrina,

>

> I remembered in another 'enzyme post' you'd said that they had helped

> you a lot. So I was wondering if you were needing to gain weight? I

> lost (and am still losing very gradually) 20 lbs in about 3 months

> when I started certain enzymes on a regular basis. In fact I've never

> heard of gaining weight on enzyme therapy unless it was someone who

> wanted/needed to gain weight. What do you think was the reason for

> this - if you don't mind my asking - and/or was this just in the

> beginning and then it leveled back out to a desired weight later??

>

> Also wondering if you're doing this on your own or if you're lucky

> enough to have a health practitioner prescribing this?

>

> Thanks!

> Genesa

[Guest guest]

Hi Genesa,

No, I do not need to gain weight. I am one of those people who do not

lose weight, despite being on a restricted calorie diet. I have

compared my intake and activity with others on a similar protocol, and

I am a good 40lbs heavier than them. Now that I have started the

enzymes, I am a good 60lbs heavier than them. People on the group

will no doubt say it is irrelevant and/or desirable to not lose

weight, but I consider it an indication that something is not working

as it should.

The weight has stayed on. And, no, I am not lucky enough to have a

health practitioner prescribe them for me. This is something that I

am doing on my own to try and resolve my digestive issues (which it

has done). I am even able to eat fruit now.

As for the reason for the weight gain: I am not sure. I suspect it

is because I am absorbing my food, and I no longer immediately eject

what I eat.

Katrina.

--- In , " truthseeker741 " <genesa@n...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Katrina,

>

> I remembered in another 'enzyme post' you'd said that they had helped

> you a lot. So I was wondering if you were needing to gain weight? I

> lost (and am still losing very gradually) 20 lbs in about 3 months

> when I started certain enzymes on a regular basis. In fact I've never

> heard of gaining weight on enzyme therapy unless it was someone who

> wanted/needed to gain weight. What do you think was the reason for

> this - if you don't mind my asking - and/or was this just in the

> beginning and then it leveled back out to a desired weight later??

>

> Also wondering if you're doing this on your own or if you're lucky

> enough to have a health practitioner prescribing this?

>

> Thanks!

> Genesa

[Guest guest]

Hi Katrina:

What an interesting post!!! Look, I realize this is no business of

mine, and there is no reason at all for you to reply to this if you

do not want to, and I certainly will not be offended in any way if

you ignore this. But it has me REALLY curious.

There must be a logical (i.e. scientific) rationale for what you are

experiencing and have experienced. So here a few questions for you,

but only if you feel like answering them. OK?!!!

1) I assume you are female.

2) In very broad terms what were the principal symptoms of the

digestive " issues " to which you refer?

3) How tall are you?

4) What was your weight before you started the enzymes?

5) Roughly how many calories were you consuming then?

6) How many calories, approximately, are you consuming now, since

starting the enzymes?

7) How have your symptoms changed since starting the enzymes?

[8) You have added 20 pounds since starting the enzymes.]

This seems to me like an interesting puzzle since the 'pieces',

superficially at least, do not seem to add up. But I would enjoy

trying to figure out a rational explanation that can account for all

the evidence, even though, on the face of it, it all appears

paradoxical/contradictory.

All the best,

Rodney.

> >

> > Hi Katrina,

> >

> > I remembered in another 'enzyme post' you'd said that they had

helped

> > you a lot. So I was wondering if you were needing to gain weight?

I

> > lost (and am still losing very gradually) 20 lbs in about 3 months

> > when I started certain enzymes on a regular basis. In fact I've

never

> > heard of gaining weight on enzyme therapy unless it was someone

who

> > wanted/needed to gain weight. What do you think was the reason for

> > this - if you don't mind my asking - and/or was this just in the

> > beginning and then it leveled back out to a desired weight later??

> >

> > Also wondering if you're doing this on your own or if you're lucky

> > enough to have a health practitioner prescribing this?

> >

> > Thanks!

> > Genesa

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Katrina:

What an interesting post!!! Look, I realize this is no business of

mine, and there is no reason at all for you to reply to this if you

do not want to, and I certainly will not be offended in any way if

you ignore this. But it has me REALLY curious.

There must be a logical (i.e. scientific) rationale for what you are

experiencing and have experienced. So here a few questions for you,

but only if you feel like answering them. OK?!!!

1) I assume you are female.

2) In very broad terms what were the principal symptoms of the

digestive " issues " to which you refer?

3) How tall are you?

4) What was your weight before you started the enzymes?

5) Roughly how many calories were you consuming then?

6) How many calories, approximately, are you consuming now, since

starting the enzymes?

7) How have your symptoms changed since starting the enzymes?

[8) You have added 20 pounds since starting the enzymes.]

This seems to me like an interesting puzzle since the 'pieces',

superficially at least, do not seem to add up. But I would enjoy

trying to figure out a rational explanation that can account for all

the evidence, even though, on the face of it, it all appears

paradoxical/contradictory.

All the best,

Rodney.

> >

> > Hi Katrina,

> >

> > I remembered in another 'enzyme post' you'd said that they had

helped

> > you a lot. So I was wondering if you were needing to gain weight?

I

> > lost (and am still losing very gradually) 20 lbs in about 3 months

> > when I started certain enzymes on a regular basis. In fact I've

never

> > heard of gaining weight on enzyme therapy unless it was someone

who

> > wanted/needed to gain weight. What do you think was the reason for

> > this - if you don't mind my asking - and/or was this just in the

> > beginning and then it leveled back out to a desired weight later??

> >

> > Also wondering if you're doing this on your own or if you're lucky

> > enough to have a health practitioner prescribing this?

> >

> > Thanks!

> > Genesa

>