(No subject)

[Guest guest]

Hi TC:

RE; professionals in the 504, we only got one of Steve's four psychiatrists

to participate in a 504, however several of his psychologists and his CBT

therapist have participated, often more than once.

Good luck with the meeting. You might want to take a more assertive stance

and really let them know you have done your homework and know Chris' legal

rights, firmly yet gently. Take care, aloha, Kathy

At 03:07 PM 4/29/99 -0400, you wrote:

>From: tchao@...

>

>

>

>

>Hi Kathy,

>

>IT sounds like a good idea to have a professional to conference in the 504

>meeting. I'm not sure how our psychiatrist will react to that. I'll try

and

>also have him to write a letter to request for more accomodations on the

>classroom/curriculum settings.

>

>I like your idea of " address not doing homework as a symptom of a problem

rather

>than a problem in itself " . I think the focus has been the opposite and

wrong.

>I should point this out to the teachers.

>

>Thanks for the valuable information and suggestions.

>

>TC

>

>

>

>

>Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...> on 04/27/99 02:37:12 PM

>

>Please respond to onelist

>

> onelist

>cc: (bcc: Tse Chao/JerseyCity/iNautix)

>

>Subject: Re: (no subject)

>

>

>

>

>From: Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...>

>

>HI TC:

>

>SInce Steve was diagnosed he has had about ten teachers and I would say

>only one, his GT Math teacher, really has any understanding of OCD.

>However my son's homeroom teacher has shown a great willingness to help

>share with other teachers and this is the thin end of the wedge as far as

>working successfully with the school. It is definintely a step on the way

>to understanding.

>

>Have you tried talking to the teachers with a professional? This has been

>invaluable to us. Somehow even though we can explain OCD pretty well to

>Steve's teachers, it just works better to have a professional attend a

>meeting and talk calmly about what classroom interventions are needed.

>That way sceptical teachers have to face unquestionable evidence that there

>is a valid problem and they are not dealing with laziness, lack of

>motivation or normal orneriness. Sometimes we have had more mental health

>professionals on conference calls at our 504 meetings than teachers and

>that really gets the message across. Also you can prep the professionals

>to address directly the problems created when teachers misinterpret our

>kid's behaviors.

>

>If you can work with Chris' teachers to address not doing homework as a

>symptom of a problem rather than a problem in itself, you might be able to

>make some headway with them. You might also want to meet separately with

>Chris's teachers and work at establishing a cooperative relationship where

>you will work jointly with them on helping Chris.

>

>Sometimes I have had to explain to the teachers what an evening in our

>house was like with untreated OCD running the show. This helped them

>realize that focusing on homework/undone schoolwork was not the priority

>and getting OCD treated was. Just as parents must adjust their

>expectations when OCD is in sway, so must teachers. What we found that

>helped was to assure the teachers that we were working hard on helping

>Steve get the OCD under control and that when that happened the schoolwork

>problems would improve.

>

>Sometimes you just meet a teacher on burnout and then all your efforts may

>not be effective. Then you might want to make it very clear to them that

>you understand Chris' legal rights. This approach when done subtly can get

>even the most non-responsive administrators/educators to pay attention. My

>son's psychologist has told us horror stories of battles he has engaged in

>to get school accommodations for some of the kids he treats.

>

>I apologize in advance if what I have written offends those on the list who

>are in the teaching profession. So far we have mostly come in contact with

>very caring, committed teachers who want very much to help. Aloha, Kathy (H)

>kathyh@...

>

>TC wrote:

>

>Kathy,

>>

>>How lucky you are. Steve's teacher understands OCD? Otherwise, how can she

>>help? Chris's teachers do not understand and accuse not doing

>homeworks.

>>

>>TC

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...> on 04/24/99 02:13:30 PM

>>

>>Please respond to onelist

>>

>> onelist

>>cc: (bcc: Tse Chao/JerseyCity/iNautix)

>>

>>Subject: Re: (no subject)

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>From: Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...>

>>

>>HI Theresa:

>>

>>Wow, Ellen did some excellent bossing back of her OCD to get to school

>>after worrying about the Columbine school massacre. Even my non-OCD

>>co-workers had a hard time settling down to work after watching the news on

>>this tragedy; it is hard to imagine how difficult this must be for our

>>OCDers, especially those with violent obsessions.

>>

>>Please keep us posted on how your 504 arrangements are going. My son just

>>went to his 504 meeting for the first time on Thursday and he handled very

>>well. It was hard for him but he is learning to participate in the

>>decisions about his treatment and school/mental health interventions. We

>>even had an offer from one of his 6th grade teachers to help us orient the

>>7th grade teachers in the Fall, and share with them techniques and

>>strategies she found to help Steve with his OCD in the classroom.

>>

>>Take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

>>kathyh@...

>>

>>At 09:39 AM 4/24/99 -0400, you wrote:

>>> Hi My name is Theresa and I have a fourteen year old daughter

>>>who has OCD. I've been reading the e-mails and have been thinking I've

>>>been there and I've done that. It's so gratifying to know that there are

>>>other parents who are going through the same emotions and heartaches that

>>>my family has experienced. I read the information on the 504 plan and

>>>immediately investigated. For years,I've struggled with the school system

>>>and no one has ever said you can do this. Thanks for the information.

>>>Yesterday was a real crises day. Ellen wouldn't go to school. She had

>>>decided for the past three days that she was sick and didn't feel well.She

>>>had been displaying quite a lot of her OCD symptoms,but I thought it was

>>>because of PACT testing. When I woke her up,she wanted me to take her to

>>>the doctor,but I told her she didn't have anything wrong with her. She

>>>finally admitted she was scared because of the Columbine school

>>>shootings.I knew I couldn't give in to this because if I did ,she would

>>>try every morning. After numerous telephone calls to the principal,the

>>>school psychologist,the guidance counselor,and Ellen's psychologist,she

>>>finally made it to school at 10. I realize this is probably a little

>>>long,but it's nice to be able to vent to people who actually know and

>>>understand what it's really like.We live in S.C. Thanks,

>>> Theresa

>>

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

HI Diane:

You are doing an excellent job of coping with a very tough situation when a

child will not do the therapy that needs to be done to boss back OCD. I am

still working on letting go with my Let Go poem and attitude. Your

description of Ashleigh's belief really reminded me of how Steve was. It

took three tries for him to get going on the CBT. It took six months and

thousands and thousands of dollars for him to come up with information just

to set up a hierarchy of symptoms!

Please do not give up that this can be turned around. I had given up and

was accepting that maybe when he was adult and in tremendous pain something

would happen. Somehow when it became less important for me, and I

lightened up, it became more important for him. Since we had a pact to

" Never Give Up " he started on the slow path of recovery using CBT, and has

made incredible progress.

Do you ever get your husband to watch OCD videos? This has worked for me.

My husband, , hasn't read even one book on OCD as far as I can tell.

However he has watched several videos at my urging. I just tell the family

it is show time and I have a new OCD video I need them to watch and they

humor me and go for it. and I had completely different pacing in

dealing with Steve and his OCD and his treatment. This was stressful and

required a lot of understanding and communicating between us to accept this

difficult difference. Time has helped a lot and we are much more on the

same page with it now.

Good luck, take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 08:48 PM 5/3/99 -0700, Diane wrote:

I wanted tothank those of you who wrote to me. Ashleigh does not

participate in CBT as she believes therapy does not help her. The

psychiatrist and I agree that if she thinks therapy won't work, it won't.

I like the advice of having the psychiatrist set up the monitoring points.

That way if she becomes angry it isn't at me. I just feel, I am sure as

many of you do, waiting for her to grow and accept that she has an illness

just like those who need insulin for diabetes. I know it will get easier

in time. It also gets frustrating because her father ignores the problem

he keeps saying that I am the professional and I should deal with it. And

he refuses to talk with her.

Thanks for your help and suggestions.

Diane

[Guest guest]

Thank You ,for " Making Cry " .It sure is different when you when

it happens to you. Beth in IN.

(no subject)

> From: j.monnens@...

>

>

>

> This was posted on another list I belong to, and I thought it would be

> appropriate in light of the current thread of discussion.

>

> Jule in Cleveland

>

> Making Cry

> >>

> >>He stood among his friends from school,

> >>He joined their childhood games

> >>Laughing as they played kickball

> >>And when they called poor names.

> >> was unlike the rest;

> >>She was slow and not as smart,

> >>And it would seem to all his friends

> >>She was born without a heart

> >>And so he gladly joined their fun

> >>Of making cry.

> >>

> >>But somewhere deep within his heart,

> >>He never knew just why

> >>For he could hear his mother's voice,

> >>Her lessons of right and wrong

> >>Playing over and over inside his head

> >>Just like a favorite song.

> >> " Treat others with respect, son,

> >>The way you'd want them treating you.

> >>And remember, when you hurt others,

> >>Someday, someone might hurt you. "

> >>He knew his mother wouldn't understand

> >>The purpose of their game

> >>Of teasing , who made them laugh

> >>As her own tears fell like rain.

> >>The funny faces that she made

> >>And the way she'd stomp her feet

> >>Whenever they mocked the way she walked

> >>Or the stutter when she'd speak.

> >>To him she must deserve it

> >>Because she never tried to hide.

> >>And if she truly wanted to be left alone,

> >>Then she should stay inside.

> >>But every day she'd do the same:

> >>She'd come outside to play,

> >>And stand there, tears upon her face,

> >>Too upset to run away.

> >>The game would soon be over.

> >>As tears dropped from her eyes,

> >>For the purpose of their fun

> >>Was making cry.

> >>

> >>> >> > > It was nearly two whole months

> >>He hadn't seen his friends.

> >>He was certain they all must wonder

> >>What happened and where he'd been

> >>So he felt a little nervous

> >>As he limped his way to class.

> >>He hoped no one would notice,

> >>He prayed no one would ask

> >>About that awful day:

> >>The day his bike met with a car,

> >>Leaving him with a dreadful limp

> >>And a jagged-looking scar.

> >>So he held his breath a little

> >>As he hobbled into the room,

> >>Where inside he saw a " Welcome Back " banner

> >>And lots of red balloons.

> >>He felt a smile cross his face

> >>As his friends all smiled, too

> >>And he couldn't wait to play outside-

> >>His favorite thing to do.

> >>So the second that he stepped outdoors

> >>And saw his friends all waiting there,

> >>He expected a few pats on the back-

> >>Instead, they all stood back and stared.

> >>He felt his face grow hotter

> >>As he limped to join their side

> >>To play a game of kickball

> >>And of making cry.

> >>

> >>An awkward smile crossed his face

> >>When he heard somebody laugh

> >>And heard the words, " Hey freak,

> >>Where'd you get that ugly mask? "

> >>He turned expecting ,

> >>But could not be seen.

> >>It was the scar upon his own face

> >>That caused such words so mean.

> >>He joined in their growing laughter,

> >>Trying hard to not give in

> >>To the awful urge inside to cry

> >>Or the quivering of his chin.

> >>They are only teasing

> >>He made himself believe.

> >>They are still my friends;

> >>They'd never think of hurting me.

> >>But the cruel remarks continued

> >>About the scar and then his limp.

> >>And he knew if he shed a single tear

> >>They'd label him a wimp.

> >>And so the hurtful words went on,

> >>

> >>And in his heart he wondered why.

> >>But he knows without a doubt

> >>The game would never end, until they made him cry.

> >>And just when a tear had formed,

> >>He heard a voice speak out from behind.

> >> " Leave him alone you bullies,

> >>Because he's a friend of mine " .

> >>He turned to see poor ,

> >>Determination on her face,

> >>Sticking up for one of her own tormentors

> >>And willing to take his place.

> >>And when his friends did just that,

> >>Trying their best to make poor cry,

> >>This time he didn't join in,

> >>And at last understood exactly why.

> >> " Treat others with respect, son,

> >>The way you'd want them treating you.

> >>And remember, when you hurt others,

> >>Someday, someone might hurt you. "

> >>It took a lot of courage

> >>But he knew he must be strong,

> >>For at last he saw the difference

> >>Between what's right and wrong.

> >>And didn't seem so weird.

> >>Through his understanding eyes.

> >>Now he knew he'd never play again

> >>The game of making cry.

> >>It took several days of teasing

> >>And razzing from his friends,

> >>But when they saw his strength,

> >>They chose to be like him.

> >>And now out on the playground,

> >>A group of kids meets every day

> >>For a game of kickball and laughter

> >>And teaching their new friend, , how to play.

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ONElist members are using Shared Files in great ways!

>

> Are you? If not, see our homepage for details.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> The is sponsored by the OCSDA. You may visit

their web site at http://www.ocdhelp.org/ and view schedules for chatroom

support at http://www.ocdhelp.org/chat.html

[Guest guest]

HI Beth:

We are also living with what I call " perfectionism " OCD. Sometimes I

wonder about OCPD. I keep telling myself it is better than having him

stuck going back and forth through the doorways for half and hour, but it

is a tough one. It does allow for some important achievements but in Steve

seems to be tied to hyper-judgementality (is there such a word?) about

others as well as himself. This is a big barrier when trying to enhance

social skills.

Being able to discuss things with others who understand is a wonderful

thing about this group. Thanks for sharing, good luck, take care, aloha,

Kathy (Ha)

kathyh@...

You wrote:

>I love you guys, I don't know what I'd do without you.I guess I'll get

>stronger,it's just the first time anything like this has ever happened.

>She was the last person I ever thought would ever say anything like that,

>When she was young she had a eating disorder,and was in the hospital many

>times because she wouldn't eat.We've talked about ocd and how she had to

>check envelopes to make sure there wasn't anything in them before she

>could throw them away.And how she had to check all the lights and the

>house while her family waited in the car,before they went away' and she

>would go and check the curling iron,see that it was unplugged but would

>had to plug it in and unplug it . But she said she doesn't do that

>anymore.Maybe it's her need to have things perfect in her life.I don't

>know. Thank you all for being there I feel like you are all family.Love

>Beth in IN.

[Guest guest]

>From: Noelle136@...

>

>I will be moving across country for a week and need to be unsubed. I also

>need to know how to start it back up upon my return to cyber life

>thanks for your help

>noelle

>noelle136@...

>

If you go to www.onelist.com you can set your ocdandparentling options to

'No Mail' while you are travelling. Go back when you are settled and

restart your mail in the regular or digest form [as you prefer]

I think that is what Louis does for us when we ask.

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Try Inflamma-Force (contains turmeric, bromelain, L-glutamine, glucosamine

sulphate, yucca root powder, alfalfa leaf)

and

Myalgia-Force (contains magnesium citrate and malic acid and bromelain)

from Prairie Naturals.

They work really well for cutting the pain from fibromyalgia.

Best of Health!

Saul Pressman

URL: http://www.plasmafire.com

email: saul@...

Join our mailing list and learn about ozone therapy at:

/subscribe/ozonetherapy

(no subject)

>From: angelkat <angelkat@...>

>

>Hey All,

>I'm undergoing a major attack of fibromyalgia, with constant headaches

>and pain. I was just wondering if someone could help me get thru this!

>I am so tired and achy, I almost can't move... I am trying to drink

>more water but too sick to exercise at this point. Is there anything I

>can take or drink to help the pain and fatigue? I know there is no

>miracle cure for this, but this one really has me down. Any help would

>be greatly appreciated. I'm even too tired to read the entire oxyplus

>list!!! LOL Some of you have been writing novels........ Thanks

>again,

>

>

>

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Dear Kat,

I think that you will better off without the dairy products. You can get

calcium from a lot of other sources, without any of the detrimental effects

of dairy.

Here are sources of calcium :

Tofu set with calcium, kelp, blackstrap molasses, turnip greens, bok choy,

cabbage, mustard greens, kale, almonds, rutabaga, white beans, broccoli,

kohlrabi, brussels sprouts, radishes, cauliflower, cheddar cheese,

hazelnuts, sardines, sunflower seeds, walnuts, salmon, navy beans, peas,

yogurt, brewer’s yeast, dulse, wakame

For Vitamin D, the best source besides sunlight is halibut liver oil

capsules.

Best of Health!

Saul Pressman

URL: http://www.plasmafire.com

email: saul@...

Join our mailing list and learn about ozone therapy at:

/subscribe/ozonetherapy

(no subject)

>From: angelkat <angelkat@...>

>

>I'm still confused..... most of what I read says that dairy products,

>i.e. milk are acidic and should be avoided. Then why would the calcium

>be alkalizing? If I am going to buy a calcium supplement what kind

>should I take (I assume one with Vitamin D) and should it be buffered?

>Should I continue to eat dairy products or not? Are they good or bad???

>Thanks,

>Kat

>

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/18/99 1:33:12 AM Central Daylight Time,

saul@... writes:

<< Try Inflamma-Force (contains turmeric, bromelain, L-glutamine, glucosamine

sulphate, yucca root powder, alfalfa leaf)

and

Myalgia-Force (contains magnesium citrate and malic acid and bromelain)

from Prairie Naturals.

They work really well for cutting the pain from fibromyalgia.

>>

Saul,

I have found that taking MSM at the rate of 1000 mg in the morning and the

same dosage in the evening goes along way to stopping the pain of

fibromyalgia very quickly. It has been the best thing I have found for it.

And it has worked for many I know with back pain problems. It sure is worth a

try as many times it works very quickly.

Gene Downey

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/18/1999 2:37:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

saul@... writes:

<< cheddar cheese, >>

Is this a dairy product??????

[Guest guest]

Saul,

What's MSM?

Lash

[Guest guest]

Dear Gene,

Thanks very much for that. I'll pass it on.

Best of Health!

Saul Pressman

URL: http://www.plasmafire.com

email: saul@...

Join our mailing list and learn about ozone therapy at:

/subscribe/ozonetherapy

Re: (no subject)

>From: Gdwny@...

>

>In a message dated 8/18/99 1:33:12 AM Central Daylight Time,

>saul@... writes:

>

><< Try Inflamma-Force (contains turmeric, bromelain, L-glutamine,

glucosamine

> sulphate, yucca root powder, alfalfa leaf)

>

> and

>

> Myalgia-Force (contains magnesium citrate and malic acid and bromelain)

>

> from Prairie Naturals.

>

> They work really well for cutting the pain from fibromyalgia.

> >>

>Saul,

>I have found that taking MSM at the rate of 1000 mg in the morning and the

>same dosage in the evening goes along way to stopping the pain of

>fibromyalgia very quickly. It has been the best thing I have found for it.

>And it has worked for many I know with back pain problems. It sure is worth

a

>try as many times it works very quickly.

>

>Gene Downey

>

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/18/99 7:46:29 PM Central Daylight Time, LASHLIN@...

writes:

<< What's MSM?

Lash >>

It is a dietary sulfur with the chemical name of Methyl-Sulfonyl-Methane.

Gene Downey

[Guest guest]

How can I contact Tony Brown's j;ournal and hopefully to get him to do

something on Hyperbaric therapy for brain-damaged individuals. Manson

P.S. I would like to call him. Thanks anyone. Sounds like the showdown

in Indiana was well worthwhile. Guess thats the only way any of us can get

anyone's interest and attention. I regret not knowing Dr. Hulda 's

specialty but assume it is some type of oxygen therapy.

[Guest guest]

<< I am embarrassed to ask, but what is the difference between digest and

individual message--I am not a computer guru! >>

Would also like to know difference please?

Thanks

Lacie in LA

[Guest guest]

Angie - DON'T use pyrex! It has NO flexibility, obviously, so it's a

total pain in the a$$ to get the soap out! *grin* Use either plastic

or lined wood. And either way, line your mold with freezer paper for

really easy removal!

I've had good luck with smaller batches using Rubbermaid drawer

dividers, of all things. They've got more or less square sides (there

is a slight slant to them, but it's not a big deal unless you're

getting ready to sell, and even then, you can trim them. And they're

pretty cheap!

Depending on how big you want your bars, the #2916 makes about 6 bars

using anywhere from one to one-and-a-half pounds of oils. The #2918

holds almost twice that (not quite) and makes 10 to 12 bars, again

depending on how you cut them (I get 6 and 11 respectively, plus

enough for sample chunks).

For larger batches, a straight sided kitty-litter pan works great -

they'll hold about 8 lbs of soap, I believe.

If you've got a container you want to use as a mold, a quick and dirty

way to figure out how much soap you need to fill it is to fill up the

mold with water and then measure the volume of water contained by the

mold. No, it's not 100% accurate, but it's a decent enough way to

determine how much raw soap a particular mold with hold - remember to

include the water amount of your soap when measuring this way, not

just the oils *g*

Jules

> Hello Again,

> One more question to you expert soapmakers....How can you determine

what size

> mold you are going to need for a particular batch? Most recipes

don't really

> mention anything about mold size. I was going to use a pyrex dish

to start

> with, what do you think? Any better suggestions for an easy,

starter type

> mold?

> Thanks again,

> Angie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> From: lt54@...

> One more question to you expert soapmakers....How can you determine what

size

> mold you are going to need for a particular batch?

Angie, below is a formula I sent to Cindi a while back. Hope it helps.

>Cindi, as close as I can come for you right now is that one fluid pint is

equal to 28.875 cubic inches. You will need to make allowances for the

weight of the oil as it is lighter than water.

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity.

www.houseofscents.com

Cosmeticinfo

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/05/01 3:42:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, whyten@... writes:

reprimand myself because I still do have so much to be grateful for. Two beautiful girls, a roof over my head, the opportunity to go to school, etc... I think we all have our own ways of dealing with the emptiness that death leaves us with...Don't worry about how it might have impacted your friend's life (easier said than done, I know!) had she dealt with the death of her husband differently...she did what was right for her at the time. That's all any of us can really do. I wish you the peace of mind and heart that it will take to make it through this hard time. *hugs*

Thanks , isn't losing ones child terrible, such young lives, we just do not expect to bury our children, I wish Ralph were closer, I only go visit mebbe every couple of years, his grave is of course on LI in the military cemetery there, I llive up near Utica some 350 miles away Hugs to you also dear

Anne

[Guest guest]

Anne,

I am so sorry for your loss hon. What a terribly hard thing

death is. :-(

I personally visit my son's grave very often...like at least

3 times a week. Of course, it is right across the street from my house,

so it's not a struggle to get there. For me, I don't think it is

so much about closure, as I don't feel that seeing a piece of granite with

Matty's name carved on it gives me much peace...for me, it's more because

there, I can give myself permission to cry, to scream, to rant and rave

and grieve for the loss of such a young and beautiful life...the loss of

my son...which I sometimes have a hard time doing at home. At home, I tend

to reprimand myself because I still do have so much to be grateful for.

Two beautiful girls, a roof over my head, the opportunity to go to school,

etc...

I think we all have our own ways of dealing with the emptiness

that death leaves us with...Don't worry about how it might have impacted

your friend's life (easier said than done, I know!) had she dealt with

the death of her husband differently...she did what was right for her at

the time. That's all any of us can really do.

I wish you the peace of mind and heart that it will take to

make it through this hard time. *hugs*

acarpe6119@... wrote:

I just

got word that the friend I have had since we moved up to CNY ,

passed away about an hour

ago,

In the last

years she had to have a spinal operation to fuse a very bad

spinal problem, she had

osteoarthritis, diabetes plagued her, she tok a lot

of painkillers and I told

her that she must not take Ibuprofen 900 and

Tylenol in such quantities,she

apparently would forget the amounts she took

her son tells me, and continually

overdosed.. In November she went to live

with her daughter and 3

weeks ago landed in hospital, her lungs,heart,

kidneys and liver failing

fast, her doctor told her that she could never go

home, her immune system

was gone, they gave her blood and a bacterium in it

caused havoc with her, She

had gone downhill last time I saw her and then the

following week she was put

onto life support for her lungs were filling up,

she came out of it enough

to breathe on her own,but was not lucid and was

confused, they thought there

was hope, I was very skeptical though. The kids

thought she was getting

better, but being much older I guess I am very leery.

Geez I will miss that gal

She had lost her husband

of 40 years in 1998, walked away from his grave and

would never visit the site

although it is only a short walk from her house, I

kept telling her that she

had no closure, she must go and visit his grave, it

would hurt but I found that

when I lost my son n 1972. I was also loathe to

visit the military cemetery

where he lay ( Pinelawn NY), one day I did visit

and spent the day crying

my heart out here the stark reality of his death hit

me and hard, I also found

in the days following that I could start to live

with the pain of his death,

slowly I began the process of grief and healing,

does anyone think that I

was wrong about Kay and one must put paid to a loved

ones death?

I wonder if she had done this she might still have been with us

..Anne

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“Hold on to what is good, even if it's

a handful of earth. Hold on to what you believe, even if it's a tree that

stands by itself. Hold on to what you must do even, if it's a long way

from here. Hold on to your life, even if it's easier to let go." - Pueblo

Prayer

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Liberty Natural will send essential oil samples for $1.00 per sample (it is

the tiniest bit though, like .02 oz)

1-800-289-8427

www.libertynatural.com

Wellington will send 5 samples with an order (minimum $100)

1-800-411-3593

www.wellingtonfragrance.com

There has been alot of talk about a place FBI that sends samples, never delt

with them so I don't know what the info on them is.

good luck,

-jag

[Guest guest]

Even with all the hassle and the warnings, I still use bitter almond eo in

soaps and in creams. In the soaps you have very little lasting contact (as

it is a rinse off product). In the creams there is so little needed that I

don't feel that it poses a threat. If anyone has other info, I'd be

interested.

Marie Gale

Chandler's Soaps

All natural soaps and body care products made by hand on the Chandler Ranch

in Southwest Oregon.

www.chandlerssoaps.com

(no subject)

Is it not good to use bitter almond EO in soap? Would it be better to use

a

FO?

[Guest guest]

Hi Marie:

These is a bitter almond e.o. available that has had the hydrocyanic acid

removed. Look on the label for " F.F.P.A. " (Free From Prussic Acid). This is

what is used in cooking for that delicious almond flavor.

> Even with all the hassle and the warnings, I still use bitter almond eo in

> soaps and in creams. In the soaps you have very little lasting contact (as

> it is a rinse off product). In the creams there is so little needed that I

> don't feel that it poses a threat. If anyone has other info, I'd be

> interested.

>

[Guest guest]

I will Angie, thanks.

(no subject)

Hi Janice,

I have just been reading all the posts about allergies and have some concerns

about your daughter using my products since I do use shea butter and mango

butter----made from nuts. I will send the samples for you to try, since for

most individuals there is no problem. But please use with caution and always

with any new product do a small patch test if there is any doubt at all.

Angie

[Guest guest]

Jessi, you guys be careful on the road. Do not pick up strangers. Hmm, do I sound like a mom. Marsha

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/15/01 3:50:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jessiducky@... writes:

I'm on my way out talk to you later love you all talk to you all later!!!!! Bye for now!!!

take care talk to you later.

hhhmmm....:::scratch'n head:::...ya'll think she might be hinting at something????

Deb (*love* the excitment she's feeling! lol)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/16/01 12:19:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jessiducky@... writes:

We are still in California lol Not for long though we are out in Mojave now leave early in the morning hope you all are okay! Take care

Oh its been soooooooo long since I was in the desert! I used to get (used to get? HA! still do! lol) spooked easily and I remember watching some scary movie or other in a motel room in either NM or Kingman AZ (I think!) about an ancient evil indian spirit being 'reborn' in the body of a 'modern' woman and her and friends trying to get rid of it...one line stuck in my head 'if you see a raven and it seems to be following you, the :::insert name of ancient evil indian spirit::: is watching you', well, the next day on the road I of course saw a raven (prolly a crow! lol) and I'd see another one off and on all day...It *wasn't* the same one of course, but to my imagination it was!! lol

I saw that movie was on a few years ago and decided it was best I didn't see it again...I mean, sure, I was 9 years old the first time I saw it and it was spooky and scary as hell, but seeing it again would make it look (to my now adult mind...ok, SOMETIME adult mind ) 'fake' and I wouldn't be afraid of it lurking in my brain somewhere ready to jump out at me, but I decided it was best not to watch it!

Anyway, I *love* traveling by car...I used to anyway, I know I would again if I had someone to do it with. I used to love flying, too, being in the clouds...sigh. Don't forget to take those piccy's!! I have some scanned of at least one of the trips we took from here (california) to KCMO....Again, don't forget to take piccy's!

Deb