Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 So translate that into humans. Should I get a Jack LaLanne juicer, juice the carrots and throw away the juice? - which fiber - how much daily? I don't think there's a concensus on whether to eat more whole grains versus say Citrucel. I just don't know what to do with this info. Then there's soluble fiber and not so soluble fiber - which kind makes the motil? I have from somewhere a ref of 33 grams of fiber in my spreadsheet, and I usually go over that, but you eat a lot more than that, right? Are you sure it's enough? All I know for sure is what my gut tells me and it said: "no more cabbage" very clearly. I don't think it talks to the brain or heart. Beans appear to be the best fiber source, though it's higher calories, cupwise I can't eat as much broccoli. So looking at the things that have high fiber per calorie, I find fiber one, and Kellogg's all bran (overlooking crude corn bran which I can't buy). Clearly superior as a source of fiber, because I'm not about to eat a pound of any green to get 10 lousy grams of fiber instead of 1 oz of cereal. And I "need" 33. IOW, I have to use a combination of fiber one, beans and maybe a cup of greens to get the fiber. Fiber is not an easy issue, IMO. Regards. [ ] It's the FIBER ... Hmm.. it's the fiber?Can J Physiol Pharmacol. 2003 Nov;81(11):1042-8. Dietary restriction and fibre supplementation: oxidative stressand metabolic shifting for cardiac health. Diniz YS, Cicogna AC, Padovani CR, Silva MD, Faine LA, GalhardiCM, Rodrigues HG, Novelli EL. Faculty of Medicine, UNESP, Botucatu, Sao o, Brazil. Dietary modification ought to be the first line of strategy inprevention of the development of cardiac disease. The purpose of thisstudy was to investigate whether dietary restriction,dietary-fibre-enriched diet, and their interactions might affectantioxidant capacity and oxidative stress in cardiac tissue. MaleWistar rats (180-200 g; n=10) were divided into four groups: controlad libitum diet ©, 50% restricted diet (DR), fed with fibre-enricheddiet (F), and 50% restricted fibre-enriched diet (DR-F). After 35 daysof the treatments, F, DR, and DR-F rats showed low cholesterol,LDL-cholesterol, and triacylglycerol, and high HDL-cholesterol inserum. The DR, DR-F, and F groups had decreased myocardiallipoperoxide and lipid hydroperoxide. The DR-F and F treatmentsincreased superoxide dismutase and glutatione peroxidase (GSH-Px). TheDR treatment increased GSH-Px and catalase activities. Dietary fibrebeneficial effects were related to metabolic alterations. The F andDR-F groups showed high cardiac glycogen and low lactatedehydrogenase/citrate synthase ratios, indicating diminished anaerobicand elevated aerobic myocardial metabolism in these animals. There wasno synergistic effect between dietary restriction and dietary fibreaddition, since no differences were observed in markers of oxidativestress in the F and DR-F groups. Dietary fibre supplementation, ratherthan energy intake and dietary restriction, appears to be the mainprocess retarding oxidative stress in cardiac tissue. PMID: 14719039 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 So translate that into humans. Should I get a Jack LaLanne juicer, juice the carrots and throw away the juice? - which fiber - how much daily? I don't think there's a concensus on whether to eat more whole grains versus say Citrucel. I just don't know what to do with this info. Then there's soluble fiber and not so soluble fiber - which kind makes the motil? I have from somewhere a ref of 33 grams of fiber in my spreadsheet, and I usually go over that, but you eat a lot more than that, right? Are you sure it's enough? All I know for sure is what my gut tells me and it said: "no more cabbage" very clearly. I don't think it talks to the brain or heart. Beans appear to be the best fiber source, though it's higher calories, cupwise I can't eat as much broccoli. So looking at the things that have high fiber per calorie, I find fiber one, and Kellogg's all bran (overlooking crude corn bran which I can't buy). Clearly superior as a source of fiber, because I'm not about to eat a pound of any green to get 10 lousy grams of fiber instead of 1 oz of cereal. And I "need" 33. IOW, I have to use a combination of fiber one, beans and maybe a cup of greens to get the fiber. Fiber is not an easy issue, IMO. Regards. [ ] It's the FIBER ... Hmm.. it's the fiber?Can J Physiol Pharmacol. 2003 Nov;81(11):1042-8. Dietary restriction and fibre supplementation: oxidative stressand metabolic shifting for cardiac health. Diniz YS, Cicogna AC, Padovani CR, Silva MD, Faine LA, GalhardiCM, Rodrigues HG, Novelli EL. Faculty of Medicine, UNESP, Botucatu, Sao o, Brazil. Dietary modification ought to be the first line of strategy inprevention of the development of cardiac disease. The purpose of thisstudy was to investigate whether dietary restriction,dietary-fibre-enriched diet, and their interactions might affectantioxidant capacity and oxidative stress in cardiac tissue. MaleWistar rats (180-200 g; n=10) were divided into four groups: controlad libitum diet ©, 50% restricted diet (DR), fed with fibre-enricheddiet (F), and 50% restricted fibre-enriched diet (DR-F). After 35 daysof the treatments, F, DR, and DR-F rats showed low cholesterol,LDL-cholesterol, and triacylglycerol, and high HDL-cholesterol inserum. The DR, DR-F, and F groups had decreased myocardiallipoperoxide and lipid hydroperoxide. The DR-F and F treatmentsincreased superoxide dismutase and glutatione peroxidase (GSH-Px). TheDR treatment increased GSH-Px and catalase activities. Dietary fibrebeneficial effects were related to metabolic alterations. The F andDR-F groups showed high cardiac glycogen and low lactatedehydrogenase/citrate synthase ratios, indicating diminished anaerobicand elevated aerobic myocardial metabolism in these animals. There wasno synergistic effect between dietary restriction and dietary fibreaddition, since no differences were observed in markers of oxidativestress in the F and DR-F groups. Dietary fibre supplementation, ratherthan energy intake and dietary restriction, appears to be the mainprocess retarding oxidative stress in cardiac tissue. PMID: 14719039 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 jwwright wrote: So translate that into humans. Should I get a Jack LaLanne juicer, juice the carrots and throw away the juice? actually he would advocate that you eat the fiber too. Positive Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 jwwright wrote: So translate that into humans. Should I get a Jack LaLanne juicer, juice the carrots and throw away the juice? actually he would advocate that you eat the fiber too. Positive Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 I think the evidence trend is quite clear: low fat/high plants. lots leafy greens and crucufers. essentially a [near raw] veggie diet and some fish. lots fiber, almost no added processed oils.that's what i am seeing, do you see it differently? susan > > So translate that into humans. > Should I get a Jack LaLanne juicer, juice the carrots and throw away the juice? - which fiber - how much daily? > I don't think there's a concensus on whether to eat more whole grains versus say Citrucel. > > I just don't know what to do with this info. > > Then there's soluble fiber and not so soluble fiber - which kind makes the motil? > I have from somewhere a ref of 33 grams of fiber in my spreadsheet, and I usually go over that, but you eat a lot more than that, right? Are you sure it's enough? > > All I know for sure is what my gut tells me and it said: " no more cabbage " very clearly. I don't think it talks to the brain or heart. > > Beans appear to be the best fiber source, though it's higher calories, cupwise I can't eat as much broccoli. > So looking at the things that have high fiber per calorie, I find fiber one, and Kellogg's all bran (overlooking crude corn bran which I can't buy). Clearly superior as a source of fiber, because I'm not about to eat a pound of any green to get 10 lousy grams of fiber instead of 1 oz of cereal. And I " need " 33. > IOW, I have to use a combination of fiber one, beans and maybe a cup of greens to get the fiber. > Fiber is not an easy issue, IMO. > > Regards. > > > > > [ ] It's the FIBER ... > > > Hmm.. it's the fiber? > > Can J Physiol Pharmacol. 2003 Nov;81(11):1042-8. > Dietary restriction and fibre supplementation: oxidative stress > and metabolic shifting for cardiac health. > > Diniz YS, Cicogna AC, Padovani CR, Silva MD, Faine LA, Galhardi > CM, Rodrigues HG, Novelli EL. > > Faculty of Medicine, UNESP, Botucatu, Sao o, Brazil. > > Dietary modification ought to be the first line of strategy in > prevention of the development of cardiac disease. The purpose of this > study was to investigate whether dietary restriction, > dietary-fibre-enriched diet, and their interactions might affect > antioxidant capacity and oxidative stress in cardiac tissue. Male > Wistar rats (180-200 g; n=10) were divided into four groups: control > ad libitum diet ©, 50% restricted diet (DR), fed with fibre-enriched > diet (F), and 50% restricted fibre-enriched diet (DR-F). After 35 days > of the treatments, F, DR, and DR-F rats showed low cholesterol, > LDL-cholesterol, and triacylglycerol, and high HDL-cholesterol in > serum. The DR, DR-F, and F groups had decreased myocardial > lipoperoxide and lipid hydroperoxide. The DR-F and F treatments > increased superoxide dismutase and glutatione peroxidase (GSH-Px). The > DR treatment increased GSH-Px and catalase activities. Dietary fibre > beneficial effects were related to metabolic alterations. The F and > DR-F groups showed high cardiac glycogen and low lactate > dehydrogenase/citrate synthase ratios, indicating diminished anaerobic > and elevated aerobic myocardial metabolism in these animals. There was > no synergistic effect between dietary restriction and dietary fibre > addition, since no differences were observed in markers of oxidative > stress in the F and DR-F groups. Dietary fibre supplementation, rather > than energy intake and dietary restriction, appears to be the main > process retarding oxidative stress in cardiac tissue. > > PMID: 14719039 > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 I think the evidence trend is quite clear: low fat/high plants. lots leafy greens and crucufers. essentially a [near raw] veggie diet and some fish. lots fiber, almost no added processed oils.that's what i am seeing, do you see it differently? susan > > So translate that into humans. > Should I get a Jack LaLanne juicer, juice the carrots and throw away the juice? - which fiber - how much daily? > I don't think there's a concensus on whether to eat more whole grains versus say Citrucel. > > I just don't know what to do with this info. > > Then there's soluble fiber and not so soluble fiber - which kind makes the motil? > I have from somewhere a ref of 33 grams of fiber in my spreadsheet, and I usually go over that, but you eat a lot more than that, right? Are you sure it's enough? > > All I know for sure is what my gut tells me and it said: " no more cabbage " very clearly. I don't think it talks to the brain or heart. > > Beans appear to be the best fiber source, though it's higher calories, cupwise I can't eat as much broccoli. > So looking at the things that have high fiber per calorie, I find fiber one, and Kellogg's all bran (overlooking crude corn bran which I can't buy). Clearly superior as a source of fiber, because I'm not about to eat a pound of any green to get 10 lousy grams of fiber instead of 1 oz of cereal. And I " need " 33. > IOW, I have to use a combination of fiber one, beans and maybe a cup of greens to get the fiber. > Fiber is not an easy issue, IMO. > > Regards. > > > > > [ ] It's the FIBER ... > > > Hmm.. it's the fiber? > > Can J Physiol Pharmacol. 2003 Nov;81(11):1042-8. > Dietary restriction and fibre supplementation: oxidative stress > and metabolic shifting for cardiac health. > > Diniz YS, Cicogna AC, Padovani CR, Silva MD, Faine LA, Galhardi > CM, Rodrigues HG, Novelli EL. > > Faculty of Medicine, UNESP, Botucatu, Sao o, Brazil. > > Dietary modification ought to be the first line of strategy in > prevention of the development of cardiac disease. The purpose of this > study was to investigate whether dietary restriction, > dietary-fibre-enriched diet, and their interactions might affect > antioxidant capacity and oxidative stress in cardiac tissue. Male > Wistar rats (180-200 g; n=10) were divided into four groups: control > ad libitum diet ©, 50% restricted diet (DR), fed with fibre-enriched > diet (F), and 50% restricted fibre-enriched diet (DR-F). After 35 days > of the treatments, F, DR, and DR-F rats showed low cholesterol, > LDL-cholesterol, and triacylglycerol, and high HDL-cholesterol in > serum. The DR, DR-F, and F groups had decreased myocardial > lipoperoxide and lipid hydroperoxide. The DR-F and F treatments > increased superoxide dismutase and glutatione peroxidase (GSH-Px). The > DR treatment increased GSH-Px and catalase activities. Dietary fibre > beneficial effects were related to metabolic alterations. The F and > DR-F groups showed high cardiac glycogen and low lactate > dehydrogenase/citrate synthase ratios, indicating diminished anaerobic > and elevated aerobic myocardial metabolism in these animals. There was > no synergistic effect between dietary restriction and dietary fibre > addition, since no differences were observed in markers of oxidative > stress in the F and DR-F groups. Dietary fibre supplementation, rather > than energy intake and dietary restriction, appears to be the main > process retarding oxidative stress in cardiac tissue. > > PMID: 14719039 > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 Then why juice the carrots? I get puzzled easily. Seems like we need to find the right fiber, and extract it, feed the rest to animals, like we do everything else. Maybe that's what psyllium husks are. Regards. Re: [ ] It's the FIBER ... jwwright wrote: So translate that into humans. Should I get a Jack LaLanne juicer, juice the carrots and throw away the juice?actually he would advocate that you eat the fiber too. Positive Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 Then why juice the carrots? I get puzzled easily. Seems like we need to find the right fiber, and extract it, feed the rest to animals, like we do everything else. Maybe that's what psyllium husks are. Regards. Re: [ ] It's the FIBER ... jwwright wrote: So translate that into humans. Should I get a Jack LaLanne juicer, juice the carrots and throw away the juice?actually he would advocate that you eat the fiber too. Positive Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 jwwright wrote: Then why juice the carrots? to have a nice beverage I guess. He suggests adding the "stuff" to your smoothie and it was fine when I did this. Fiber he suggested that you add to bread as well. Positive Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 jwwright wrote: Then why juice the carrots? to have a nice beverage I guess. He suggests adding the "stuff" to your smoothie and it was fine when I did this. Fiber he suggested that you add to bread as well. Positive Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 Hi All, Maybe or maybe not. See the free to all full-text below. Toxicol Sci. 1999 Dec;52(2 Suppl):24-34. Diet, caloric restriction, and the rodent bioassay. Keenan KP, Ballam GC, Soper KA, Laroque P, JB, Dixit R. The diet can significantly alter the results of toxicity and carcinogenicity studies. Ad libitum (AL) overfeeding of excessive calories to sedentary adult rodents is one of the most poorly controlled variables affecting the current rodent bioassay. AL-overfed rodents develop an early onset of adverse metabolic events, endocrine-disruptive degenerative diseases, and tumors that result in early morbidity and mortality. AL food consumption is extremely variable, but has a strong correlation with adult body weight, obesity, and survival. AL feeding of diets with modified protein, fiber, and energy content are not as effective as simple, moderate dietary (caloric) restriction (DR) in controlling these study variables. Moderate DR (70-75% of adult AL) is operationally simple and controls adult body weights, prevents obesity, and improves health and survival by reducing or delaying diet-related endocrine, renal, and cardiac diseases. Moderate DR provides a uniform rodent model, increases treatment exposure time, and increases the statistical sensitivity of these chronic bioassays to detect true treatment effects. Feeding a balanced diet by a moderate DR regimen of 70-75% of the maximum, unrestricted adult AL food intake is recommended for conducting well-controlled toxicity and carcinogenicity studies. PMID: 10630587 http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/52/2/24 --- drsusanforshey <drsusanforshey@...> wrote: > Hmm.. it's the fiber? > > Can J Physiol Pharmacol. 2003 Nov;81(11):1042-8. > Dietary restriction and fibre supplementation: oxidative stress > and metabolic shifting for cardiac health. > > Diniz YS, Cicogna AC, Padovani CR, Silva MD, Faine LA, Galhardi > CM, Rodrigues HG, Novelli EL. > > Faculty of Medicine, UNESP, Botucatu, Sao o, Brazil. > > Dietary modification ought to be the first line of strategy in > prevention of the development of cardiac disease. The purpose of this > study was to investigate whether dietary restriction, > dietary-fibre-enriched diet, and their interactions might affect > antioxidant capacity and oxidative stress in cardiac tissue. Male > Wistar rats (180-200 g; n=10) were divided into four groups: control > ad libitum diet ©, 50% restricted diet (DR), fed with fibre-enriched > diet (F), and 50% restricted fibre-enriched diet (DR-F). After 35 days > of the treatments, F, DR, and DR-F rats showed low cholesterol, > LDL-cholesterol, and triacylglycerol, and high HDL-cholesterol in > serum. The DR, DR-F, and F groups had decreased myocardial > lipoperoxide and lipid hydroperoxide. The DR-F and F treatments > increased superoxide dismutase and glutatione peroxidase (GSH-Px). The > DR treatment increased GSH-Px and catalase activities. Dietary fibre > beneficial effects were related to metabolic alterations. The F and > DR-F groups showed high cardiac glycogen and low lactate > dehydrogenase/citrate synthase ratios, indicating diminished anaerobic > and elevated aerobic myocardial metabolism in these animals. There was > no synergistic effect between dietary restriction and dietary fibre > addition, since no differences were observed in markers of oxidative > stress in the F and DR-F groups. Dietary fibre supplementation, rather > than energy intake and dietary restriction, appears to be the main > process retarding oxidative stress in cardiac tissue. > > PMID: 14719039 > > > > > > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@... __________________________________ - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 Hi All, Maybe or maybe not. See the free to all full-text below. Toxicol Sci. 1999 Dec;52(2 Suppl):24-34. Diet, caloric restriction, and the rodent bioassay. Keenan KP, Ballam GC, Soper KA, Laroque P, JB, Dixit R. The diet can significantly alter the results of toxicity and carcinogenicity studies. Ad libitum (AL) overfeeding of excessive calories to sedentary adult rodents is one of the most poorly controlled variables affecting the current rodent bioassay. AL-overfed rodents develop an early onset of adverse metabolic events, endocrine-disruptive degenerative diseases, and tumors that result in early morbidity and mortality. AL food consumption is extremely variable, but has a strong correlation with adult body weight, obesity, and survival. AL feeding of diets with modified protein, fiber, and energy content are not as effective as simple, moderate dietary (caloric) restriction (DR) in controlling these study variables. Moderate DR (70-75% of adult AL) is operationally simple and controls adult body weights, prevents obesity, and improves health and survival by reducing or delaying diet-related endocrine, renal, and cardiac diseases. Moderate DR provides a uniform rodent model, increases treatment exposure time, and increases the statistical sensitivity of these chronic bioassays to detect true treatment effects. Feeding a balanced diet by a moderate DR regimen of 70-75% of the maximum, unrestricted adult AL food intake is recommended for conducting well-controlled toxicity and carcinogenicity studies. PMID: 10630587 http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/52/2/24 --- drsusanforshey <drsusanforshey@...> wrote: > Hmm.. it's the fiber? > > Can J Physiol Pharmacol. 2003 Nov;81(11):1042-8. > Dietary restriction and fibre supplementation: oxidative stress > and metabolic shifting for cardiac health. > > Diniz YS, Cicogna AC, Padovani CR, Silva MD, Faine LA, Galhardi > CM, Rodrigues HG, Novelli EL. > > Faculty of Medicine, UNESP, Botucatu, Sao o, Brazil. > > Dietary modification ought to be the first line of strategy in > prevention of the development of cardiac disease. The purpose of this > study was to investigate whether dietary restriction, > dietary-fibre-enriched diet, and their interactions might affect > antioxidant capacity and oxidative stress in cardiac tissue. Male > Wistar rats (180-200 g; n=10) were divided into four groups: control > ad libitum diet ©, 50% restricted diet (DR), fed with fibre-enriched > diet (F), and 50% restricted fibre-enriched diet (DR-F). After 35 days > of the treatments, F, DR, and DR-F rats showed low cholesterol, > LDL-cholesterol, and triacylglycerol, and high HDL-cholesterol in > serum. The DR, DR-F, and F groups had decreased myocardial > lipoperoxide and lipid hydroperoxide. The DR-F and F treatments > increased superoxide dismutase and glutatione peroxidase (GSH-Px). The > DR treatment increased GSH-Px and catalase activities. Dietary fibre > beneficial effects were related to metabolic alterations. The F and > DR-F groups showed high cardiac glycogen and low lactate > dehydrogenase/citrate synthase ratios, indicating diminished anaerobic > and elevated aerobic myocardial metabolism in these animals. There was > no synergistic effect between dietary restriction and dietary fibre > addition, since no differences were observed in markers of oxidative > stress in the F and DR-F groups. Dietary fibre supplementation, rather > than energy intake and dietary restriction, appears to be the main > process retarding oxidative stress in cardiac tissue. > > PMID: 14719039 > > > > > > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@... __________________________________ - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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