assessment

[Guest guest]

Pete,

I found something wrong with my assessment.

I will do it again.

Please ignore the question.

Jo Sato

Assessment

Pete,In the EO to Task in the Heads of Assessmet at P4,Delta 471%Theta 1993%Alpha #DIV/0!Lobeta 16680%Beta 3110%High Beta #DIV/0I got above numbers.It does not make sense, dose it?What did I do wrong?Jo Sato

[Guest guest]

Jo,

Whenever there is a divide by zero result, that usually indicates that not all the data was collected.

The formulas in those cells which gave you the strange results simply take (for example) the alpha with eyes open, subtract the alpha at task and then divide the answer by the alpha with eyes open.

What I would do is to open your xlf files that you imported into the assessment (you can do that in Excel), especially for the parietal area, and look to see if you have numbers in all the cells. If you don't, then you did something wrong in the data gathering, and you will need to repeat it.

If the data looks all right in the xlf file, then try reloading it by going back to the assessment and clicking the Perform Assessment button. Just click the browse button for Parietals and make sure you are bringing in the correct xlf file.

If this doesn't help, let me know, and we'll try some more.

Pete

-----Original Message-----From: sato3jp [mailto:sato2446@...]Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 10:20 PM Subject: AssessmentPete,In the EO to Task in the Heads of Assessmet at P4,Delta 471%Theta 1993%Alpha #DIV/0!Lobeta 16680%Beta 3110%High Beta #DIV/0I got above numbers.It does not make sense, dose it?What did I do wrong?Jo Sato

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Pete.

I used to think if I can use TLC assessment, it will be easy to find the brain's laterality.

But now I'm not sure how I can differentiate between right dominant brain and balance issue.

How could I know it?

And if I want to down train the theta at task, how can I do it?

Jo Sato

RE: Assessment

Jo,

Whenever there is a divide by zero result, that usually indicates that not all the data was collected.

The formulas in those cells which gave you the strange results simply take (for example) the alpha with eyes open, subtract the alpha at task and then divide the answer by the alpha with eyes open.

What I would do is to open your xlf files that you imported into the assessment (you can do that in Excel), especially for the parietal area, and look to see if you have numbers in all the cells. If you don't, then you did something wrong in the data gathering, and you will need to repeat it.

If the data looks all right in the xlf file, then try reloading it by going back to the assessment and clicking the Perform Assessment button. Just click the browse button for Parietals and make sure you are bringing in the correct xlf file.

If this doesn't help, let me know, and we'll try some more.

Pete

-----Original Message-----From: sato3jp [mailto:sato2446@...]Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 10:20 PM Subject: AssessmentPete,In the EO to Task in the Heads of Assessmet at P4,Delta 471%Theta 1993%Alpha #DIV/0!Lobeta 16680%Beta 3110%High Beta #DIV/0I got above numbers.It does not make sense, dose it?What did I do wrong?Jo Sato

[Guest guest]

Jo,

I would say there are two ways of seeing this difference:

1. Reversal issues are seen primarily when the eyes are closed. Dominance issues are most clear during the Task condition.

2. Dominance issues relate to how the brain activates differently between the hemispheres, and it tracks all the way back.

If, while I am gathering my data and looking at the graphs, I see greater reductions in slow activity and/or increases in fast when I go from minute 2 to minute 3--and if I see those in the F, C and P sites--then I would seriously consider the possibility of reverse dominance.

Remember also that there are several different conditions related to dominance. There is clear left dominance related to language tasks, which is by far the most common condition. There is clear right dominance related to language tasks, which is fairly rare and seems to be limited to clear left-handed people. There is also mixed or cross or incomplete dominance. This is a lack of complete organization in the brain, and it shows up in a high percentage of people with Filtering problems. The client will tend to do some things left-handed and others right-handed. It may or may not be clear in the EEG in various areas. Some people test for multiple indicators of dominance (eye, hand, finger, arm, foot, etc.).

I go back to the Othmer study done probably a decade or more ago in which they found that, doing nothing but NF, the children with whom they worked resolved their incomplete dominance as a simple result of training their brains, without any additional modalities.

Pete

-----Original Message-----From: Jo Sato [mailto:sato2446@...]Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 11:46 PM Subject: Re: Assessment

Thank you, Pete.

I used to think if I can use TLC assessment, it will be easy to find the brain's laterality.

But now I'm not sure how I can differentiate between right dominant brain and balance issue.

How could I know it?

And if I want to down train the theta at task, how can I do it?

Jo Sato

[Guest guest]

Pete,

I have found some cells filled with 0.00 in all xlf files in my assessment.

Does it mean something went very wrong with my data gathering?

Jo Sato

RE: Assessment

Jo,

Whenever there is a divide by zero result, that usually indicates that not all the data was collected.

The formulas in those cells which gave you the strange results simply take (for example) the alpha with eyes open, subtract the alpha at task and then divide the answer by the alpha with eyes open.

What I would do is to open your xlf files that you imported into the assessment (you can do that in Excel), especially for the parietal area, and look to see if you have numbers in all the cells. If you don't, then you did something wrong in the data gathering, and you will need to repeat it.

If the data looks all right in the xlf file, then try reloading it by going back to the assessment and clicking the Perform Assessment button. Just click the browse button for Parietals and make sure you are bringing in the correct xlf file.

If this doesn't help, let me know, and we'll try some more.

Pete

-----Original Message-----From: sato3jp [mailto:sato2446@...]Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 10:20 PM Subject: AssessmentPete,In the EO to Task in the Heads of Assessmet at P4,Delta 471%Theta 1993%Alpha #DIV/0!Lobeta 16680%Beta 3110%High Beta #DIV/0I got above numbers.It does not make sense, dose it?What did I do wrong?Jo Sato

[Guest guest]

Jo,

This depends on the cell you are talking about. For example, if the zeroes are in the high-beta cells, it may simply mean that there was very little activity there. Same for coherence values in some cells. If there are many zeroes on that page, then it is likely that you failed to collect your data properly.

One of the most common errors people make is clicking "Run" to begin the assessment. This will give you a whole first row of zeroes in the left side. Remember in the Assessment, you only click "Go".

Pete

VanDeusen

pvdadp@...

Practical Brain Training.

Re: Assessment

Pete,

I have found some cells filled with 0.00 in all xlf files in my assessment.

Does it mean something went very wrong with my data gathering?

Jo Sato

[Guest guest]

Mike,

Go back to the first tab'/page in the assessment and look at your microvolt values for eyes open and task for each of these sites. It's possible that you really did have huge changes in the levels (especially if they were very low in the eyes open condition. If you are looking at the F sites, for example, you may have a lot of artifact causing the "task" numbers to be very high.

Pete

assessment

Pete,On the Head page of the assessment, EO to Task, I have some really high values that I don't understand. Lo Beta @ C4=329%,Beta @ C4=187%, High Beta @ F4=167%, C3=185%, C4=710% and P4=1614%. What does this mean? Did I make a mistake in the assessment?Mike Ferrara

[Guest guest]

Since there are only two channels, I'm not sure what you mean by center, right and left. In each 3-minute assessment gathering segment there should be two sets of data. Can you be more clear about what you mean?

Pete

Assessment

I have 2.0 software and am trying to get the assessment data out. It is only giving me center and right readings, not the left side. But, when i am doing the assessment, both channels are showing up. What do i have to do to get a complete report?

[Guest guest]

Mark,

It's not the SUM files created by BrainMaster that the assessment looks for.

When you graph a session after gathering the data in BMer, you open the SUM file

and create an " xlf " file which has the same number (e.g. SUM00004 creates

xlf00004). It is the xlf files that the assessment opens.

If you go back into BMer and open the graph for your Temporal assessment, you'll

create the xlf file automatically and you'll be able to open it in the

assessment.

Pete

-- Assessment

>

>

Pete,

I downloaded the new version of the assessment and now I see that you

included possible training protocols and that is very helpful. I am

wondering if you have ever encountered this. I did an assessment and only

4 of the five sums came up yet when I check the file by going to the file

from " my computer " , there is another sum in the file. I cannot get this

sum to move to the list where the other sums come up so the macro can

browse them. Any ideas? It happens to be the last sum for the temporal

lobe area.

Mark

>

[Guest guest]

Mark,

I do the serial calculation verbally and tell them to perform each calculation as I give it to them and give me the answer only when I stop. So I might say 2 plus 3...times 4...divided by 5. The idea is to start with tasks the client is quite likely to succeed with and then increase the difficulty based on the client's success. I don't try to make the client feel stupid but do try to get a sense of where the failure point is. I suppose, if you had a client about whose auditory processing you had serious questions, you could do a series of visual steps ala flash cards (e.g. "2+3", "X4", "/5").

T3/T4 really isn't optional. It was stated that way when we added the midline, because we were going from 4 to 5 sets of data points and some people complained that it took too long. I wouldn't leave it out. I generally tell a story that has a lot of factual material in it and then ask them to recount the story--then ask them fact questions.

You have to be creative with clients who can't do the basic tasks. I've asked young children simply to name letters instead of reading, count forward or backward instead of calculating, etc. I've also had a few clients who couldn't close their eyes. If someone is in that kind of situation, I probably would bag the assessment and just start training right side. You could make some estimates of areas of interest based on symptom constellations and just look at data in those areas until you had made enough headway with training to make the full assessment feasible.

Pete assessment

Hi Pete,

I'm going to have a crack at your assessment in the next couple of days and I have a question. With the serial calculation for the parietal measurement, is this presented orally one step at a time for them to make a mental calculation or is it written out for them?

I also notice the T3/T4 measurement is optional, but why would you leave it out? What type of listening task do you use?

Do you have an option for those who are unable to do those tasks or to even close their eyes when requested to do so? I'm thinking of a non-verbal 16 y.o. boy who might sit quietly if I'm lucky, but probably wouldn't close his eyes upon request and certainly couldn't do any of those tasks. Is it possible just to do six eyes open measurements?

Thanks again,

Mark Darling

[Guest guest]

Like I'm here, LOL

[Guest guest]

I'm just seeing who is here. was acting up this past weekend. I can't

put test in the subject area or will filter it. So, this is an

assessment.

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[Guest guest]

I'm here,

mom to Bridget 10

assessment

I'm just seeing who is here. was acting up this past weekend. I can't

put test in the subject area or will filter it. So, this is an

assessment.

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[Guest guest]

Hope you don't mind my 2 cents on your questions. I believe the

goal for NFB should be conceived by the client and then becomes a

team effort when they come to see you. Hopefully the client will

provide at least 80+% of that goal, and I would try to listen

carefully, and with the help of the assessment become a partner with

the goal, maybe suggesting to the client that this or that also

might be a goal to consider.

The TLC assessment gives you some general idea of " where they are "

in terms of brain activity. Even with a Qeeg you are only looking at

one " snapshot " of the brain at a moment frozen in time. A SPECT or

PET scan might offer some more information but since the body

continually changes you simply can't say " this is the way it is " ...

but you can get a better idea of what may be the tendencies than

just looking at the head, or hooking someone up and saying how does

that feel?

I'm sure parts of my brainmap cannot be improved :) ..but

there are some things I'd like to work a little better. And, by

using NFB some of them have. I guess what I'm trying to say is that

everything is relative, particularly quality of life. If the client

achieves their own goal, or even part of the goal, I'd say that was

success!

Some folks in the business say the EEG doesn't really change, but

rather becomes more flexible or fluid (however, I gotta say you can

ask Mercado about my theta wave changes)... As for how often

I re-assess, that too is often about the client, and their goals,

etc. I have to say, though, BioExplorer makes a re-assessment (at

least at a training site) a piece of cake!

Good luck to you!

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark and others,

Just to weigh in -- I did two assessments this past week. One 17

year old, and a 30 year old. Both with the results that Mark

describes. Both from families where the parents are educated, caring

(well-intentioned) and pushed their kids through the undiagnosed

ADD. I found myself wondering if the high beta (and resulting

anxiety) was the result of the kids adapting to pressure to " get with

it, " not be lazy " etc. while silently struggling with undiagnosed ADD

brain waves. BTY -- both have the temporal disconnect --high beta 3x

on one side/the other side. The 17 year old has the hi beta on the

left, and the 30 year old has the high beta on the right. When I did

two trials of T3T/4 hi beta,theta inhibit, smr (11-14) reward -- the

17 year old reported that he was " spinning " for the first 5 minutes of

the first 10 minute trial. After that " a fog lifted " and he was very

aware of the environment -- very clear -- birds singing -- those

types of things. I haven't done a protocol treatment yet with the 30

year old. I also worked with a 30 year old years ago -- treating her

for panic attacks. She got better, but when I added NFB to my

practice and worked with her it was clear that she had the ADD (high

frontal theta/beta ratios), Was labeled learning disabled as a

child. When I trained her with NFB " the fog cleared, " her attention

was better as was her focus and memory.. she was amazed. The

difference in this latter case was the her parents did not push her

as a child (they thought she was just slow). However, as an adult

she began to push herself! I had to train her P4/A2 -- for a

reversal. I wonder if she might have had lots of high beta if she

had been pushed as a child.

Anyone else seeing what Mark is describing with the family profile I

have described?

Lindsey, L.M.F.T.

Claremont, CA 91711

> Pete:

>

> I appreciated your post on 's innovation.

>

> I have done a couple of dozen assessments lately using your

technique, which

> I find invaluable. I don't remember when I have had so many new

clients all

> at once. Here is what I have observed in the assessments that I

have seen.

> Maybe you can comment on what I am seeing. I would appreciate it.

>

> In general, nearly all of these people (adults) have high beta

coherence,

> high high beta all over the top of the head, and frontal back

and/or right

> left reversals. Secondarily, I have seen large numbers of

undiagnosed ADD

> (high frontal theta/beta ratios) patterns that are nearly always

accompanied

> by high beta coherence. What is going on?

>

> I am wondering if you have seen this too, or did I just roll the

dice a get

> a really weird group of people? Any ideas as to what might be

causing this?

>

>

> Mark

>

>

>

>

>

> www.markwaller.com

>

>

> Mark Waller, Ph.D. LMFT The Waller Group

> Family Counseling, Inc.

> 17451 Bastanchury Rd #204-35

> Yorba

> 4091 Riverside Dr. Ste 112

> Chino

> mail@m...

> www.markwaller.com <http://www.markwaller.com/>

> tel: (909) 238-9434

>

>

> <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Signature powered by Plaxo

> <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Want a signature like this?

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[Guest guest]

Pete:

I appreciate your insight. It does make one shake their head at first. But your experience is confirming to me. I also appreciated your comments on beta coherence. I have developed a design in BE that reward coherence down and amplitude down at the same time. I find it works very well.

Mark

From: Van Deusen [mailto:pvdtlc@...] Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 6:46 PM Subject: Re: Assessment

Mark,

I think most of your questions have been answered in previous post, but your point about the reversals is worth responding to. If you work with adults, you can pretty much expect to see a lot of reversals. When I first identified the pattern and began training with it, I was sure I must have made a mistake, because the first 10-12 people we assessed had one or the other or both. I looked at my brain, and I didn't have them, so I knew at least it was possible, and I'd say probably 20-30% of the adults I see as clients or as trainees don't have reversals, but they are a common strategy the brains in our culture adopt to respond the the stresses and demands they face. Try doing some assessments of folks who don't really consider that they would come to see you for training anything in particular, and you'll probably find a much higher percentage of "right-side-out" brains.

Pete

Van DeusenBrainTrainer ()16246 SW 92nd Ave, Miami, FL 33157305/321-1595

Assessment

Pete:

I appreciated your post on 's innovation.

I have done a couple of dozen assessments lately using your technique, which I find invaluable. I don't remember when I have had so many new clients all at once. Here is what I have observed in the assessments that I have seen. Maybe you can comment on what I am seeing. I would appreciate it.

In general, nearly all of these people (adults) have high beta coherence, high high beta all over the top of the head, and frontal back and/or right left reversals. Secondarily, I have seen large numbers of undiagnosed ADD (high frontal theta/beta ratios) patterns that are nearly always accompanied by high beta coherence. What is going on?

I am wondering if you have seen this too, or did I just roll the dice a get a really weird group of people? Any ideas as to what might be causing this?

Mark

[Guest guest]

Nick,

I think you're looking at the graphs which are set to show average values over 60 seconds of data. Thus. the first set of points graphed comes at 1 minute , the second set at 2 minutes, and the third at 3 minutes. Lines are drawn from the 1 minute points to the 2 minute points and from the 2 minute points to the 3 minute, but there can be no lines drawn between 0 minutes and 1 minute because there are no data points at 0 minutes.

You can, of course, use an averaging interval less than 60 seconds and then you'll get some lines dawn before the 1 minute mark. To change the interval in BioReview, click successively on View> Properties > Settings and change the Epoch value to less than 60.0

Larry

-- Original Message -----

From: NICK MAMMANO

Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 5:03 PM

Subject: ASSESSMENT

Friends:

I’m trying to see my way clear through the 15 “COLLECT DATA” steps in the TLC “BioExplorer Assessment Processing” instructions and have a problem.

I'm using BE Assessment, not BE PRO Assessment software.

When I follow the instructions TO THE LETTER and Exit Bio Explorer in the last step and go into BIOREVIEW I end up with only 2 minutes of data at each site when I “run on session” in TLC Assess. ---the first minute (which I presume is EC) is BLANK -no amplitude graphs!

I’ve repeated it several times, (making sure that the Record on Play box is checked) with the same results -- missing the first minute of testing.

BUT if I run a 4 minute session eg. 2 minutes of EC, and 1 each of EO and TSK, I get 3 minutes of data in TLC Assess. In other words I’m still missing (and apparently not recording ) the first minute.

I’ve had my SO work with me on this (and she’s smarter than I am) and she doesn’t know what’s going on either.

I would appreciate your help.

Nick Mammano

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Larry: Your explanation clears it all up for me.

NickLarry <llewis@...> wrote:

Nick,

I think you're looking at the graphs which are set to show average values over 60 seconds of data. Thus. the first set of points graphed comes at 1 minute , the second set at 2 minutes, and the third at 3 minutes. Lines are drawn from the 1 minute points to the 2 minute points and from the 2 minute points to the 3 minute, but there can be no lines drawn between 0 minutes and 1 minute because there are no data points at 0 minutes.

You can, of course, use an averaging interval less than 60 seconds and then you'll get some lines dawn before the 1 minute mark. To change the interval in BioReview, click successively on View> Properties > Settings and change the Epoch value to less than 60.0

Larry

-- Original Message -----

From: NICK MAMMANO

Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 5:03 PM

Subject: ASSESSMENT

Friends:

I’m trying to see my way clear through the 15 “COLLECT DATA” steps in the TLC “BioExplorer Assessment Processing” instructions and have a problem.

I'm using BE Assessment, not BE PRO Assessment software.

When I follow the instructions TO THE LETTER and Exit Bio Explorer in the last step and go into BIOREVIEW I end up with only 2 minutes of data at each site when I “run on session” in TLC Assess. ---the first minute (which I presume is EC) is BLANK -no amplitude graphs!

I’ve repeated it several times, (making sure that the Record on Play box is checked) with the same results -- missing the first minute of testing.

BUT if I run a 4 minute session eg. 2 minutes of EC, and 1 each of EO and TSK, I get 3 minutes of data in TLC Assess. In other words I’m still missing (and apparently not recording ) the first minute.

I’ve had my SO work with me on this (and she’s smarter than I am) and she doesn’t know what’s going on either.

I would appreciate your help.

Nick Mammano

__________________________________________________