ICD removal

[Guest guest]

Carl - you are so wonderful!

No - I have never thought of myself as half a person or anything less. I consider myself very lucky to have this guardian angel in my chest. Maybe that is easy for me to say since it has been there for almost 9 years and has never given me any trouble and has never fired. I have had two replacements - one due to a recall in 2000 just 5 mos after the initial implant. I still continue on as a mother and as a School Board Trustee - I travel the world - I do not let the ICD rule my life - I go days without even realizing it is there.

I hope one day you can move on and live life without thinking about the ICD. Or see it as your guardian angel to watch over your heart so you do not have to. It will get easier each day. Focus on those lovely children and focus on being a wonderful mom!

Peace be with you.

~guin

Re: ICD removal

>> Thanks everyone. I know you're right.> > Honestly..> > Do you ever look at yourself as less of a person because you have a THING in> your chest that you're dependent on or else you could die at any second? I> keep thinking.. people I haven't seen in the last year don't know about it..> I look at chest xrays of people who don't have one and when I swim at the Y> people who don't have a scar like mine.. and think THEY don't need this> THING in their chest. I look at stuff from over a year ago (pictures, even> pieces of paper) and think I didn't have an ICD when I did that.. my life> has been divided into BEFORE VT and AFTER VT.> > I know it's ridiculous. But it's how I feel. ,I'm the father of 3 grown children and grandfather of 8. My wife of nearly 15 years is not the first. Forgive me and please know that I mean no offense and don't feel superior - I just have a different perspective - but I'm going to presume to lecture you just a bit ...You are NOT "less of a person" because you have an ICD ... none of us are. You need to accept that your scar is insignificant. I lost a wife of 10 years to breast cancer in 1990 when she was only 43 ... the last 4 years of her life were post-masectomy. Her scar (much larger than yours and mine, I'm sure) was also insignificant and I made damned sure she knew it. You are not your scar, you're obviously a sweet (and perhaps too sensitive for your own good in some ways) person. THAT's the important part.The "THING" (as you refer to your device) is an inanimate object that is there to HELP you. Look at the stats ... probability of survival of a therapy requiring event without defib <=5%, with defib >95%.You MUST get some help with these emotional issues about your ICD. Your ICD is your FRIEND, *not* your enemy, but you apparently need help to get that thought clearly established.You NEED to get that clearly established for your own good and for the good of those who love you.Change cardios and/or EPs if you need to. Find some sort of local support group or counselor that you feel comfortable with. Take care of these problems before they consume you any more, please.<end of lecture>Please accept this in the concerned, "fatherly advice" spirit in which it is intended.With friendship and concern,Carl

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message ----From: thenumberoneleming

We all have different types of problems Mine are buttoning the top of my slacks, finding some hair to part and keeping my head from doing it's daily self-colonoscopy. and similar ones at the sametime Yopu don't really expect people to believe that there are people similar to me, do you?, being the types of heart disease, devises and leads issues suchas pain and itch and appearance etc. and going further the recentissues about defective ICDs have made a lot of people VERY scared ICD's will never make people as scared as STD's do. Especially married folks. andvery aware of the frailty of their (our) situations and futures. True. I am always one bad joke away from being killed by someone with good taste and a mission to do

good in this world.I was one of the 'lucky' ones in that I've been told that my ICD isclassed as the "gold standard" by one Medtronic doctor. All that means is that the doctor got his standard amount of gold from you or your insurer. Cardiologists get their gold pretty easily that way. Morticians have to pry it out of your mouth before they sew up your lips and stick you in the casket.Boy! did thatmake me feel good. Buying a used car from someone in a plaid jacket, polka dot necktie and lime-colored pants would probably do the same.There is one issue that I didn't notice as being mentioned. and thatis about insurance. This is a classy forum. We do not discuss gross things that smell like guys that smear your windshiled for handouts while you are stopped at a city traffic light.

These ICDs and the operations involved are verycostly in the US from what I understand and wouldn't be implantedunless really deemed necessary Very true. the more necesary the mercedes is to the cardiologist, the more necessary the ICD to the patient., and just for the implant alone Ibelieve that someone mentioned that for the devise and the firstoperation it was in excess of $80,000 in total If only muy divorce had been that cheap. Actually if I had let her have her way, I never would have needed an ICD. she'd have just ripped out my heart.- I don't know how muchof that is covered by your insurance plans. that depends on how willing you are to fight on the phone with customer support.(I live in Canada I knew you were an "Eh?" List lady. and allof my tests, doctors visits,

hospitalizations, operations ,cost ofdevise,medications that cost about $500 a month My wife spends that much on "cute little tops." In order to save money you might consider switching I don't think so. I like women (in their place, but don't ask me to tell you what I think their place is. this is a family forum), the monthly INRtests I've never been able to get those tests. Just can't spell INR. needed,the every - 6 month interrogations Six month iterrogations? that's easy. I geth them everyday from the wife. Lord help me if I take too long taking out the garbage., all of those thingsare paid for by our provincial insurance plan for which coverage wepay about $600 a year.). I've always liked Van Gogh. would that make me eligible for pro-vincial

coverage. and if it does would it cover more than an ear-ectomy? What I have never asked There's a question that a woman has never asked?, but since readingthese posts now do wonder So now you're Wonder Woman. , what would happen if an ICD was removed atthe request of the patient It would be a first in medical history. Not the removal of the ICD, but that the doctors actually did what the patient wanted., and then in a few years was deemed reallynecessary again Time for a new Mercedes time.(provided one is still alive if not protected by thatICD Even if the patient is dead, they might still get the ICD if the new Mercedes is a sports car and the cardio needs a new girlfriend to go with it.) costwise? would the insurance

agree to cover inserting a new one again ? Please do not make reference to insurance, insurers or insurance companies "inserting a new one." the image is frightening enough for those that have been insured without bringing it up. Replacements to existing ICDs occur when required based onneed as established by the specialists, not when an individualrequests it. Be very careful that because of poor hearing I got an IUD instead of an ICD. The half deaf doctor didn't understand me when I said, I'm giving youthe rest of my business, and not I want him to have my uterus business. But I got even. Now that he gave me a uterus, once a month I go over to his office and have a PMS attack. I guess a person could get one again by paying for itwithout insurance You sound like Hans Christian with that story. (Now if it was a

proctologist instead of a cardiologist, it would be Mother Goose) but that would be very hard on a budget especiallyif one has a family to support It's topugh enough for us to support a government. You expect us to support our families too? (or a person is rich and not worriedabout costs). another issues to think about would be that whether a person keeps theICD or has it taken out, that scar is still going to be there - forlife. Actually Life, Look, the Saturday Evening Post and a lot of other magazines are no longer published. Now Globe, Star and the national Inquirer might be interested if you are a celebrity. I think of mine as a badge of honour, as my lifesaver, andactually show it Where were you liberated women when i was a teenager and sighting a bra strap was a delicious memory? and

Explain what it is and what it is doing for me,to anyone who is curious. The bra strap holds up the bra and the bra holds up the . . . Oh? You meant what the ICD does for you. Sorry I don't think of it as ugly, what's thepoint? Even with scars, it's more natural than the nudes Picasso painted. It's a pretty cool thing of have one's very own 'paddles' tocarry around all the time as a precaution. Spank me! spank me! I am not anxious for mineto ever zap me, it's been about 3 years now since I got mine, That's more than some husbands get.I callhim Linus, (which is the little Peanuts fella who carries his littleblankee around for comfort). My wife calls mine just Lyin'there. Not my ICD, but my . . .My grandkids are pleased that Gramma hasprotection Good to know you hot mommas practice safe senility.and my son and daughterinlaw don't have to worry becausethey know that I have my ICD and a marvellous team of specialists tomonitor me. Monitor? Now there'

s a euphenism you don't hear too often. I feel so blessed. but it took awhile to get to thatpoint, I certainly didn't feel very blesses when the EP told me I'dlikely be dead within 3 years if I didn't have an ICD implant. didn'ttake me long to say yes, even though it scared me even more thanhaving a stroke had. Ooooh! there's so much in this sentence for me to twist, but only a rare wave of good taste and the fear of eternal hell keep me from making those bawdy jokes.Downsides? I loved my work and because of a stroke in 2003 and thenthis heart problem, I have now been on disability for going on 5years, my life changed overnight, my chances now of finding a partner Talk to a kid fresh out of law school. they always want to make

Partner.(been divorced for years And all that closet space is yours. Hey! Wait a inute! I've been married for years, and all that closet space is hers.) are now slim to none who would want to takeup with someone who has 'all these problems' Why ruin a good thing? , I have to pay out bigbucks for someone to come in to bathe me Were I single, you could save big bucks.as I get dizzy The only way I could ever get women was if they got really dizzy. and falloften, The only way I could ever get women to lay down for me. (I live alone but lived alone before the health problems sothat part is no big deal C'mon. You're female. No female lives alone. they all have cats. ). But to have a husband who loves me,

andthree children, what a lot that would be to live for The exercise of picking up after four slobs would probably be good for your heart., I sure wouldn'twant to lose them because of feeling bad all the time about whathappened to me, no matter whose fault it is or how or why it happened If you had a husband it would be his fault. It's in the masrriage contract.(I would think of it as a serious accident that just wasn't my fault Typical woman driver!)I have refused to feel sorry for myself , and that took a lot of innerstruggle I, on the other hand, have a lot of outer struggle. Trying to get the outer part of my body into the inside of my clothes. , and I have had to find new ways to get support for thechanges in my life Me don't like to hear the word "change"

from a woman. if it doesn't mean hot flashes and cold shoulders, it means the furniture has to be moved or all the clothes in the closet have to be rreplaced with new ones., and I've just learned to live in a different way,one of the toughest things was to overcome that feeling of now beinglooked at as being suddenly old and decrepid. Hey! I resemble that description. I now have a walker anda scooter. (Sounds like two boyfriends. You can't be that decrepit. I have a license plate that says "Diva", Do you swim? I have always like scuba divas. I have joined theRed Hat Society I love red hats on women provided they don't mess them up by wearing anything else. and dressup in purple and red, My wife like me in black and blue. and with lots of

dressings. and have fun, but to dothat, I take antidepressants daily to keep my from slipping intodepression You're supposed to slip into something from 's Secret. which is sooo easy to do, and have to take all kinds ofmedicines just to maintain a semblance of normal life (that 's nowabout $500 to $600 a month). again, thank goodness for insurance thatpays 80% of that cost). Everybody that knows me has had at least onelecture about getting heart checkups. and I do have a friend whorecently dropped dead with no warning while bike riding with friends.He was only 40 . Had he been protected with an ICD, he would be aliveand well and happy today with his 3 year old and loving wife. He had a three year old wife? No wonder he had a heart attack. It's hard enough getting an adult wife to listen to you, but a three year old?

Onenever knows the future. One also doesn't know the present, at least not until you unwrap it. But we all have been in a crowded elevator and known what was passed. I now take all the help I can get. Just be careful when it's the government, a salesman or a guy in cowboy boots that's going to help you. I thinkthat I've said enough for today. My wife has never ever said that. I do have a knack for going on andon. Mrs. Santa Claus had a Nick knack, but this is a family forum . . .If I could joke like Bill, my ranting could be more palatable. You would also be institutionalized if your spouse didn't kill you first. ohwell. Keep safe and be happy - and I suggest to anyone who is havingissuesMy wife made me get rid of all my issues. Of

course they were old issues of Playboy, Penthouse. . . to get some of those antidressants "Anti-dressants?" Do you get them at a strip mall? , they can be lifesavers forthis weird new life of ours I used to prefer Tootsie rolls to lifesavers, but then Tootsie gained weight and I was aftraid she'd roll over on me. then Baywatch came on television, and except for hasselhof, I got to really like lifesavers.. and I thank God every day for allowing memore life. I have to thank my wife for the same thing. I intend to take this time to be happy. I almopst do that. Im hippy. And stomachy. all the best, Lynda.

Back atcha,

From California where if you are Canadian and talking to an American you should talk really slow, not laugh and don't mention hockey unless you want a blank stare in response.

Mahanaze> > > > > > > The ZapperBBS at > ?? http://zaplife.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=1> ? http://www.zaplife.org/ > > > > .> > > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -http://webmail.aol.com>Be sure to visit and use other ZapLife.org services:The ZapperBBS at http://zaplife.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=11 - Email list forum at /2 - Email delivery of the Zapper Newsletter at 2/3 - Email list forum for those involved in ICD litigation at 3/ZapChat - Real time online support group (Thursdays 8PM EST) at http://www.zaplife.org/chat.htmlZapFAQs - A glossary of ICD/arrhythmia terms and abbreviations at http://www.zaplife.org/zap4.htmThe ZAPPER Home page at http://www.zaplife.org/

[Guest guest]

You made me laugh so hard I cried… J

Thanks everyone. You guys are the best.

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of MARTHA or BILL MAHAN

Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008

9:53 PM

Subject: Re: Re: ICD removal

----- Original Message ----

From: thenumberoneleming

We all have different types of problems Mine are buttoning the top of my slacks, finding some hair

to part and keeping my head from doing it's daily self-colonoscopy. and

similar ones at the same

time Yopu don't really expect

people to believe that there are people similar to me, do you?,

being the types of heart disease, devises and leads issues such

as pain and itch and appearance etc. and going further the recent

issues about defective ICDs have made a lot of people VERY scared ICD's will never make people as

scared as STD's do. Especially married folks. and

very aware of the frailty of their (our) situations and futures. True. I am always one bad joke away

from being killed by someone with good taste and a mission to do good in this

world.

I was one of the 'lucky' ones in that I've been told that my ICD is

classed as the " gold standard " by one Medtronic doctor. All that means is that the doctor got his

standard amount of gold from you or your insurer. Cardiologists get their

gold pretty easily that way. Morticians have to pry it out of your mouth

before they sew up your lips and stick you in the casket.Boy! did

that

make me feel good. Buying a used car

from someone

in a plaid jacket, polka dot necktie

and lime-colored pants would probably do the same.

There is one issue that I didn't notice as being mentioned. and

that

is about insurance. This is a classy

forum. We do not discuss gross things that smell like guys that smear

your windshiled for handouts while you are stopped at a city traffic

light. These ICDs and the operations involved are very

costly in the US

from what I understand and wouldn't be implanted

unless really deemed necessary Very

true. the more necesary the mercedes is to the cardiologist, the more

necessary the ICD to the patient., and just for the implant

alone I

believe that someone mentioned that for the devise and the first

operation it was in excess of $80,000 in total If only muy divorce had been that cheap. Actually if I

had let her have her way, I never would have needed an ICD. she'd have

just ripped out my heart.- I don't know how much

of that is covered by your insurance plans. that depends on how willing you are to fight on the phone

with customer support.(I live in Canada I knew you were an " Eh? " List lady. and

all

of my tests, doctors visits, hospitalizations, operations ,cost of

devise,medications that cost about $500 a month My wife spends that much on " cute little tops. " In

order to save money you might consider switching I don't think so. I like women (in their place, but

don't ask me to tell you what I think their place is. this is a family

forum), the monthly INR

tests I've never been able to get

those tests. Just can't spell INR. needed,the every -

6 month interrogations Six

month iterrogations? that's easy. I geth them everyday from the

wife. Lord help me if I take too long taking out the garbage.,

all of those things

are paid for by our provincial insurance plan for which coverage we

pay about $600 a year.). I've always

liked Van Gogh. would that make me eligible for pro-vincial

coverage. and if it does would it cover more than an ear-ectomy? What

I have never asked There's a

question that a woman has never asked?, but since reading

these posts now do wonder So

now you're Wonder Woman. , what would happen if an ICD was

removed at

the request of the patient It

would be a first in medical history. Not the removal of the ICD, but that

the doctors actually did what the patient wanted., and then in a

few years was deemed really

necessary again Time for a

new Mercedes time.(provided one is still alive if not

protected by that

ICD Even if the patient

is dead, they might still get the ICD if the new Mercedes is a sports car and

the cardio needs a new girlfriend to go with it.) costwise? would

the insurance agree to cover inserting a new one again ? Please do not make reference to insurance, insurers or

insurance companies " inserting a new one. " the image is

frightening enough for those that have been insured without bringing it

up. Replacements to existing ICDs occur when required

based on

need as established by the specialists, not when an individual

requests it. Be very careful

that because of poor hearing I got an IUD instead of an ICD. The half

deaf doctor didn't understand me when I said, I'm giving youthe rest of my

business, and not I want him to have my uterus business. But I got

even. Now that he gave me a uterus, once a month I go over to his office

and have a PMS attack. I guess a person could get one again by

paying for it

without insurance You sound like Hans

Christian with that story. (Now if it was a proctologist instead

of a cardiologist, it would be Mother Goose) but that would be

very hard on a budget especially

if one has a family to support It's

topugh enough for us to support a government. You expect us to support

our families too? (or a person is rich and not worried

about costs).

another issues to think about would be that whether a person keeps the

ICD or has it taken out, that scar is still going to be there - for

life. Actually Life, Look, the

Saturday Evening Post and a lot of other magazines are no longer

published. Now Globe, Star and the national Inquirer might be interested

if you are a celebrity. I think of mine as a badge of

honour, as my lifesaver, and

actually show it Where were you

liberated women when i was a teenager and sighting a bra strap was a delicious

memory? and Explain what it is and what it is doing for me,

to anyone who is curious. The bra

strap holds up the bra and the bra holds up the . . . Oh? You meant what

the ICD does for you. Sorry I don't think of it as

ugly, what's the

point? Even with scars, it's more

natural than the nudes Picasso painted. It's a pretty cool

thing of have one's very own 'paddles' to

carry around all the time as a precaution. Spank me! spank me! I am not

anxious for mine

to ever zap me, it's been about 3 years now since I got mine, That's more than some husbands get.I call

him Linus, (which is the little Peanuts fella who carries his little

blankee around for comfort). My wife

calls mine just Lyin'there. Not my ICD, but my . . .My

grandkids are pleased that Gramma has

protection Good to know you hot mommas practice safe senility.and my son and

daughterinlaw don't have to worry because

they know that I have my ICD and a marvellous team of specialists to

monitor me. Monitor? Now there'

s a euphenism you don't hear too often. I

feel so blessed. but it took awhile to get to that

point, I certainly didn't feel very blesses when the EP told me I'd

likely be dead within 3 years if I didn't have an ICD implant. didn't

take me long to say yes, even though it scared me even more than

having a stroke had. Ooooh!

there's so much in this sentence for me to twist, but only a rare wave of good

taste and the fear of eternal hell keep me from making those bawdy jokes.

Downsides? I loved my work and because of a stroke in 2003 and then

this heart problem, I have now been on disability for going on 5

years, my life changed overnight, my chances now of finding a partner Talk to a kid fresh out of law

school. they always want to make Partner.

(been divorced for years And all that closet space is yours. Hey! Wait a inute!

I've been married for years, and all that closet space is hers.)

are now slim to none who would want to take

up with someone who has 'all these problems' Why ruin a good thing? , I have to pay

out big

bucks for someone to come in to bathe me Were I single, you could save big bucks.as I

get dizzy The only way I could ever

get women was if they got really dizzy. and fall

often, The only way I could ever get

women to lay down for me. (I live alone but lived alone before

the health problems so

that part is no big deal

C'mon. You're female. No female lives alone. they all have

cats. ). But to have a husband who loves me, and

three children, what a lot that would be to live for The exercise of picking up after four slobs would

probably be good for your heart., I sure wouldn't

want to lose them because of feeling bad all the time about what

happened to me, no matter whose fault it is or how or why it happened If you had a husband it would be his

fault. It's in the masrriage contract.

(I would think of it as a serious accident that just wasn't my fault Typical woman driver!)

I have refused to feel sorry for myself , and that took a lot of inner

struggle I, on the other hand,

have a lot of outer struggle. Trying to get the outer part of my body

into the inside of my clothes. , and I have had to find new ways

to get support for the

changes in my life Me don't

like to hear the word " change " from a woman. if it doesn't mean

hot flashes and cold shoulders, it means the furniture has to be moved or all

the clothes in the closet have to be rreplaced with new ones.,

and I've just learned to live in a different way,

one of the toughest things was to overcome that feeling of now being

looked at as being suddenly old and decrepid. Hey! I resemble that description. I

now have a walker and

a scooter. (Sounds like two

boyfriends. You can't be that decrepit. I have a

license plate that says " Diva " , Do you swim? I have always like scuba divas.

I have joined the

Red Hat Society I love red hats on

women provided they don't mess them up by wearing anything else. and

dressup in purple and red, My wife

like me in black and blue. and with lots of dressings. and

have fun, but to do

that, I take antidepressants daily to keep my from slipping into

depression You're supposed to slip

into something from 's

Secret. which is sooo easy to do, and have to take all

kinds of

medicines just to maintain a semblance of normal life (that 's now

about $500 to $600 a month). again, thank goodness for insurance that

pays 80% of that cost). Everybody that knows me has had at least one

lecture about getting heart checkups. and I do have a friend who

recently dropped dead with no warning while bike riding with friends.

He was only 40 . Had he been protected with an ICD, he would be alive

and well and happy today with his 3 year old and loving wife. He had a three year old wife? No wonder he had a heart

attack. It's hard enough getting an adult wife to listen to you, but a

three year old? One

never knows the future. One also

doesn't know the present, at least not until you unwrap it. But we all

have been in a crowded elevator and known what was passed.

I now take all the help I can get. Just

be careful when it's the government, a salesman or a guy in cowboy boots that's

going to help you. I think

that I've said enough for today. My

wife has never ever said that. I do have a knack for going on and

on. Mrs. Santa Claus had a Nick

knack, but this is a family forum . . .If I could joke like Bill,

my ranting could be more palatable. You

would also be institutionalized if your spouse didn't kill you first. oh

well. Keep safe and be happy - and I suggest to anyone who is having

issuesMy wife made me get rid of

all my issues. Of course they were old issues of Playboy, Penthouse. .

.. to get some of those antidressants " Anti-dressants? " Do you get them at a

strip mall? , they can be lifesavers for

this weird new life of ours I used to prefer Tootsie rolls to lifesavers,

but then Tootsie gained weight and I was aftraid she'd roll over on me.

then Baywatch came on television, and except for hasselhof, I got to

really like lifesavers.. and I thank God every day for allowing me

more life. I have to thank my wife

for the same thing. I intend to take this time to be

happy. I almopst do that.

Im hippy. And stomachy.

all the best, Lynda.

Back atcha,

From California

where if you are Canadian and talking to an American you should talk really

slow, not laugh and don't mention hockey unless you want a blank stare in

response.

Mahanaze

>

>

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ewforum.php?f=1

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>

> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

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>

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>

> ________________________________________________________________________

> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -

http://webmail.aol.com

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Be sure to visit and use other ZapLife.org

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http://zaplife.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=1

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[Guest guest]

Just wanted to let you all know that I am saving all your

messages to me and I appreciate you talking sense into me. I think seeing my

cardiologist was what made me get preoccupied with my ICD again. I’m

feeling somewhat better now and I have you guys to thank.