RE: list serve material in board packet

[Guest guest]

Oh, PLEASE!!!

Dr. :

I think that perhaps it might be more efficacious if we change the rules of

this list serve. I recommend the rules be named " Guidelines for the

Rationale of Collegial Intercourse. " The title alone will let everyone know

that any essays we submit are simply rationalizations without objective

data, and as such, will provide the author with complete immunity from

third-party purveyors. That should keep even our vocal minority happy!

Sincerely, (really)

Glenn

Glenn F. Gumaer, B.S., D.C.

Chiropractic Physician

Northside Chiropractic Clinic

1240 N. Riverside Avenue

Medford, OR 97501-4619

541-770-1330 ofc

541-770-7090 fax

list serve material in board packet

Dear Dr.

I believe you are the new moderator to the list serve.

I would like to register my complaint that I have

discovered some of my listserve discussions in the

board packet. The last name listed was from

and it contained an email sent to me on 2/24/06

at 10:12:19 AM regarding the subject RE: Re:

CJ or CR? getting specific and included the entire

previous string of emails discussing the topic. It

was included in the packet labeled Part 1.

Thankyou for your concern.

Judith Boothby

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

So an open forum among colleagues discussing an important professional

issue, bouncing ideas, opinions, thoughts, suggestions, and

counter-suggestions etc., etc. in hopes of fully informing OBCE members as

per the CJ vs., CR is somehow counter-productive or a bad thing???

Vern Saboe

list serve material in board packet

> Dear Dr.

>

> I believe you are the new moderator to the list serve.

> I would like to register my complaint that I have

> discovered some of my listserve discussions in the

> board packet. The last name listed was from

> and it contained an email sent to me on 2/24/06

> at 10:12:19 AM regarding the subject RE: Re:

> CJ or CR? getting specific and included the entire

> previous string of emails discussing the topic. It

> was included in the packet labeled Part 1.

>

> Thankyou for your concern.

>

> Judith Boothby

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

,

Dave McTeague already sent an email to the listserv via Freeman explaining and apologizing for copying the emails. He admitted to sending information to the OBCE members for the next meeting. It was on a listserv message last week. I don't have the email handy, but the reason he sent the information is that 2 of our members, Siegfred and Cookie Kent aren't on the listserv. 's email has been down for a few months, or working only intermittently. He felt Dr. Boothbys explanations were important for the board members to hear in order to make decisions on the upcoming rule discussion on March 16. I wonder if everyone didn't see that email with his explanations? He is off the listserv. He has accepted that as the effect of his error. He had no malicious intent. He was trying to give everyone as much information as possible for decision making. Because he's off the listserv, if you want to ask administrative questions of him, please email him directly.

Minga Guerrero DC

In a message dated 3/12/2006 1:36:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, john@... writes:

Vern- My understanding is that the specific content of these mesages is confidential and protected and we all aggreed to this when we signed ln. Wasn't Mr. McTeague temporarily dropped for breaking that rule? jk

M. Kalb MS DCThe Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachhttp://www.drkalb.com/ 541.488.3001/888.488.3001

list serve material in board packet> Dear Dr. >> I believe you are the new moderator to the list serve.> I would like to register my complaint that I have> discovered some of my listserve discussions in the> board packet. The last name listed was from > and it contained an email sent to me on 2/24/06> at 10:12:19 AM regarding the subject RE: Re:> CJ or CR? getting specific and included the entire> previous string of emails discussing the topic. It> was included in the packet labeled Part 1.>> Thankyou for your concern.>> Judith Boothby>> __________________________________________________>

[Guest guest]

Vern- My understanding is that the specific content of these mesages is confidential and protected and we all aggreed to this when we signed ln. Wasn't Mr. McTeague temporarily dropped for breaking that rule? jk

M. Kalb MS DCThe Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachwww.DrKalb.com 541.488.3001/888.488.3001

list serve material in board packet> Dear Dr. >> I believe you are the new moderator to the list serve.> I would like to register my complaint that I have> discovered some of my listserve discussions in the> board packet. The last name listed was from > and it contained an email sent to me on 2/24/06> at 10:12:19 AM regarding the subject RE: Re:> CJ or CR? getting specific and included the entire> previous string of emails discussing the topic. It> was included in the packet labeled Part 1.>> Thankyou for your concern.>> Judith Boothby>> __________________________________________________>

[Guest guest]

At least you know your words will be taken as written, not out of context. Sunny Kierstyn

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: Boothby Judith <boothbyj@...>cdc@..., listserve < >Subject: list serve material in board packetDate: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:32:16 -0800 (PST)Dear Dr. I believe you are the new moderator to the list serve.I would like to register my complaint that I havediscovered some of my listserve discussions in theboard packet. The last name listed was from and it contained an email sent to me on 2/24/06at 10:12:19 AM regarding the subject RE: Re:CJ or CR? getting specific and included the entireprevious string of emails discussing the topic. Itwas included in the packet labeled Part 1.Thankyou for your concern.Judith Boothby__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Yes Dave apparently broke the rules but his intent was good. Dr. Freeman has place him back on the list serve.

Vern Saboe

list serve material in board packet> Dear Dr. >> I believe you are the new moderator to the list serve.> I would like to register my complaint that I have> discovered some of my listserve discussions in the> board packet. The last name listed was from > and it contained an email sent to me on 2/24/06> at 10:12:19 AM regarding the subject RE: Re:> CJ or CR? getting specific and included the entire> previous string of emails discussing the topic. It> was included in the packet labeled Part 1.>> Thankyou for your concern.>> Judith Boothby>> __________________________________________________>

[Guest guest]

Vern:

It clearly states at the bottom of the list serve that

items are not to be printed or forwarded off of the

list serve. I would hope that that could be honored

or at least ask permission first and give a person a

chance to decide for themselves.

Judith Boothby

--- Vern Saboe <vsaboe@...> wrote:

> So an open forum among colleagues discussing an

> important professional

> issue, bouncing ideas, opinions, thoughts,

> suggestions, and

> counter-suggestions etc., etc. in hopes of fully

> informing OBCE members as

> per the CJ vs., CR is somehow counter-productive or

> a bad thing???

>

> Vern Saboe

> list serve material in board

> packet

>

>

> > Dear Dr.

> >

> > I believe you are the new moderator to the list

> serve.

> > I would like to register my complaint that I have

> > discovered some of my listserve discussions in the

> > board packet. The last name listed was from

>

> > and it contained an email sent to me on

> 2/24/06

> > at 10:12:19 AM regarding the subject

> RE: Re:

> > CJ or CR? getting specific and included the entire

> > previous string of emails discussing the topic.

> It

> > was included in the packet labeled Part 1.

> >

> > Thankyou for your concern.

> >

> > Judith Boothby

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Gumaer:

Your comment along with the not really caring comments

of others is only convincing me even more that in

Oregon during this period of time a group of

chiropractors are trying to establilsh a double

standard for chiropractic; one for people with

insurance and one for people without insurance. For

what purpose. I can only imagine you don't want to

feel guilty as you cut of care for people who need

care. I may be heartless to the needs of all of you

that are so scared right now but I suggest you might

try finding leaders that help you feel more empowered

when you are scared.

I did.

As we all know making rules shifts the burden of

whatever is being discussed from one group to another.

It would be heartening to me if I actually could hear

many of you actually caring about how the CJ rule will

effect our legitimate patients who have complex

problems. I do not think the language has been worked

out sufficiently yet for this case and I care a lot

about my patients so I am not planning on dropping

this issue any time soon no matter how much harassing

email I get.

I have lots of fears about the world right now but not

about my practice because I have plenty of patients to

work on who pay cash that are not being served by the

evidence based technique of other chiropractors.

I was diagnosed with cancer and went thru six months

of chemotherapy during the period of time of the 1197

workers comp reform. I went back to work bald and it

was hard and that is why I don't think that the

workers comp reform is the worst thing that has ever

happened.

Every year in this state more and more people are

losing their health care privledges do you care and as

a profession how are we going to help??? There is

plenty of work in the world out there.

The clinical rational rule states that you can use the

rational that supports what is described in our

current scope of practice. If there is a problem then

peer review will have every opportunity to grill any

doctor who receives a complaint about their care or

rational and can compare their rational to any

standard they want to. Its all in the CR rule.

Sincerely, Judith Boothby

Message: 11

Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:41:40 -0800

From: " Glenn F. Gumaer, D.C. "

<gfgdc@...>

Subject: RE: list serve material in board packet

Oh, PLEASE!!!

Dr. :

I think that perhaps it might be more efficacious if

we change the

rules of

this list serve. I recommend the rules be named

" Guidelines for the

Rationale of Collegial Intercourse. " The title alone

will let everyone

know

that any essays we submit are simply rationalizations

without objective

data, and as such, will provide the author with

complete immunity from

third-party purveyors. That should keep even our vocal

minority happy!

Sincerely, (really)

Glenn

Glenn F. Gumaer, B.S., D.C.

Chiropractic Physician

Northside Chiropractic Clinic

1240 N. Riverside Avenue

Medford, OR 97501-4619

541-770-1330 ofc

541-770-7090 fax

list serve material in board

packet

Dear Dr.

I believe you are the new moderator to the list serve.

I would like to register my complaint that I have

discovered some of my listserve discussions in the

board packet. The last name listed was from

and it contained an email sent to me on 2/24/06

at 10:12:19 AM regarding the subject RE: Re:

CJ or CR? getting specific and included the entire

previous string of emails discussing the topic. It

was included in the packet labeled Part 1.

Thankyou for your concern.

Judith Boothby

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Yes, Judith you are of course correct nonetheless it was clearly an

oversight and not a malicious act by any means.

Vern

list serve material in board

> > packet

> >

> >

> > > Dear Dr.

> > >

> > > I believe you are the new moderator to the list

> > serve.

> > > I would like to register my complaint that I have

> > > discovered some of my listserve discussions in the

> > > board packet. The last name listed was from

> >

> > > and it contained an email sent to me on

> > 2/24/06

> > > at 10:12:19 AM regarding the subject

> > RE: Re:

> > > CJ or CR? getting specific and included the entire

> > > previous string of emails discussing the topic.

> > It

> > > was included in the packet labeled Part 1.

> > >

> > > Thankyou for your concern.

> > >

> > > Judith Boothby

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Judith,

Since each of us is working with patients who do and do not have insurance, your arguments seem specious to me. Each of us has a concern about limiting scope of practice. but, for cash paying patients, theonly thing that restricts your care is between you and the patient. The third part payors want some indication they are getting some bang for their buck. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. We are asking that the IMEs use responsible diagnostic criteria to judge our care .... that also seems reasonable to me. Where is the problem you continue to lament about?

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: Boothby Judith <boothbyj@...>gfgdc@..., listserve < >Subject: RE: list serve material in board packetDate: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:35:39 -0800 (PST)Dear Dr. Gumaer:Your comment along with the not really caring commentsof others is only convincing me even more that inOregon during this period of time a group ofchiropractors are trying to establilsh a doublestandard for chiropractic; one for people withinsurance and one for people without insurance. Forwhat purpose. I can only imagine you don't want tofeel guilty as you cut of care for people who needcare. I may be heartless to the needs of all of youthat are so scared right now but I suggest you mighttry finding leaders that help you feel more empoweredwhen you are scared.I did.As we all know making rules shifts the burden ofwhatever is being discussed from one group to another.It would be heartening to me if I actually could hearmany of you actually caring about how the CJ rule willeffect our legitimate patients who have complexproblems. I do not think the language has been workedout sufficiently yet for this case and I care a lotabout my patients so I am not planning on droppingthis issue any time soon no matter how much harassingemail I get.I have lots of fears about the world right now but notabout my practice because I have plenty of patients towork on who pay cash that are not being served by theevidence based technique of other chiropractors.I was diagnosed with cancer and went thru six monthsof chemotherapy during the period of time of the 1197workers comp reform. I went back to work bald and itwas hard and that is why I don't think that theworkers comp reform is the worst thing that has everhappened.Every year in this state more and more people arelosing their health care privledges do you care and asa profession how are we going to help??? There isplenty of work in the world out there.The clinical rational rule states that you can use therational that supports what is described in ourcurrent scope of practice. If there is a problem thenpeer review will have every opportunity to grill anydoctor who receives a complaint about their care orrational and can compare their rational to anystandard they want to. Its all in the CR rule.Sincerely, Judith BoothbyMessage: 11Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:41:40 -0800From: "Glenn F. Gumaer, D.C."<gfgdc@...>Subject: RE: list serve material in board packetOh, PLEASE!!!Dr. :I think that perhaps it might be more efficacious ifwe change therules ofthis list serve. I recommend the rules be named"Guidelines for theRationale of Collegial Intercourse." The title alonewill let everyoneknowthat any essays we submit are simply rationalizationswithout objectivedata, and as such, will provide the author withcomplete immunity fromthird-party purveyors. That should keep even our vocalminority happy!Sincerely, (really)GlennGlenn F. Gumaer, B.S., D.C.Chiropractic PhysicianNorthside Chiropractic Clinic1240 N. Riverside AvenueMedford, OR 97501-4619541-770-1330 ofc541-770-7090 fax list serve material in boardpacketDear Dr. I believe you are the new moderator to the list serve.I would like to register my complaint that I havediscovered some of my listserve discussions in theboard packet. The last name listed was from and it contained an email sent to me on 2/24/06at 10:12:19 AM regarding the subject RE: Re:CJ or CR? getting specific and included the entireprevious string of emails discussing the topic. Itwas included in the packet labeled Part 1.Thankyou for your concern.Judith Boothby__________________________________________________