Guest guest Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hi Guys;We are all doing a good job of checking in. I am worried that we have not heard from Turk or Bill yet. Bill lives a few hours away from me, and goes to the same Clinic as I, so perhaps I can do some research... Anyone close to Turk in New York?? Everyone: Keep checking in....My update is: My battery is at 2.64 and we replace at 2.61, so I will be up for my FOURTH ICD relatively soon. This one has been 6 1/2 years so far... I will be 54 in a few days, and was originally implanted at the age of 41! It will be interesting to see what sort of new unit is available today. My leads are going on 13 years old, no one is talking replacement yet. I am not in a hurry to have them replaced, but since I have very small veins, I'd rather have them replaced sooner, rather than later! Great to hear from everyone!~guin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hi again! I was at 264 in May and should have beepedfor low battery by now as I am set for 262, not sure if I am hearing it.....I am 61, was implanted in June 05. So good to hear from all. Hoping good news with Turk and Bill.Judi McIntosh, President/CEOSwimsational Swim School, LLCwww.swimsational.netOn Jul 16, 2012, at 8:01 PM, Guin Van Dyke <guin@...> wrote: Hi Guys;We are all doing a good job of checking in. I am worried that we have not heard from Turk or Bill yet. Bill lives a few hours away from me, and goes to the same Clinic as I, so perhaps I can do some research... Anyone close to Turk in New York?? Everyone: Keep checking in....My update is: My battery is at 2.64 and we replace at 2.61, so I will be up for my FOURTH ICD relatively soon. This one has been 6 1/2 years so far... I will be 54 in a few days, and was originally implanted at the age of 41! It will be interesting to see what sort of new unit is available today. My leads are going on 13 years old, no one is talking replacement yet. I am not in a hurry to have them replaced, but since I have very small veins, I'd rather have them replaced sooner, rather than later! Great to hear from everyone!~guin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hi, folks-- Still here. The battery's running down on the ICD I got in May '06, even though it's never gone off and I rarely get paced. I guess in addition to the lead problem, this Medtronic has a battery problem they tell me. So some time in the next 18 months I get a new unit. Not looking forward to it from a PTSD standpoint. Lynn S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Lynn;Sounds like your Medtronic is on Target. I use mine the same as you (no shocks, very little pacing), mine was implanted Mar 06. They do tend to last around 6 years...The replacement are very simple, much less than initial implant. If your leads don't have to be replaced, then it is a simple in and out, and home in a few hours. I hope this will ease your worrying, from a PTSD standpoint. They say - it is a 'piece of cake'!!! Good luck to you!~guinOn Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Lynn Siprelle <lynn@...> wrote: Hi, folks-- Still here. The battery's running down on the ICD I got in May '06, even though it's never gone off and I rarely get paced. I guess in addition to the lead problem, this Medtronic has a battery problem they tell me. So some time in the next 18 months I get a new unit. Not looking forward to it from a PTSD standpoint. Lynn S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 > We are all doing a good job of checking in. I am worried that we have not heard from Turk or Bill yet. Bill lives a few hours away from me, and goes to the same Clinic as I, so perhaps I can do some research... Anyone close to Turk in New York?? Turk passed away over a year ago. I was one of his FB friends. Sue ^'^ ^'^ ^'^ ^'^ ^'^ ^'^ “Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.” -- Gandhi Sky Paintings and Science Stuff: http://auroraborealispage.net/aurora.html Where My Spirit Lives: http://auroraborealispage.net/alaska.html Toby, the Owl Who Flew Away: http://www.auroraborealispage.net/owl.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 I am so sorry to hear that Turk has passed away. Sydney Re: CHECK - IN !!! Turk? Bill? > We are all doing a good job of checking in. I am worried that we have not > heard from Turk or Bill yet. Bill lives a few hours away from me, and > goes to the same Clinic as I, so perhaps I can do some research... Anyone > close to Turk in New York?? Turk passed away over a year ago. I was one of his FB friends. Sue ^'^ ^'^ ^'^ ^'^ ^'^ ^'^ “Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.” -- Gandhi Sky Paintings and Science Stuff: http://auroraborealispage.net/aurora.html Where My Spirit Lives: http://auroraborealispage.net/alaska.html Toby, the Owl Who Flew Away: http://www.auroraborealispage.net/owl.html ------------------------------------ Be sure to visit and use other ZapLife.org services: The ZapperBBS at http://zaplife.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=1 1 - Email list forum at / 2 - Email delivery of the Zapper Newsletter at 2/ 3 - Email list forum for those involved in ICD litigation at 3/ ZapChat - Real time online support group (Thursdays 8PM EST) at http://www.zaplife.org/chat.html ZapFAQs - A glossary of ICD/arrhythmia terms and abbreviations at http://www.zaplife.org/zap4.htm The ZAPPER Home page at http://www.zaplife.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Awe, very sad about Turk:( This was one of the first sites I reached out to when I was diagnosed and got the ICD. Judi McIntosh, President/CEO Swimsational Swim School, LLC www.swimsational.net On Jul 17, 2012, at 9:57 PM, " Sydney " <konkontu2011@...> wrote: > I am so sorry to hear that Turk has passed away. > > Sydney > > > Re: CHECK - IN !!! Turk? Bill? > > >> We are all doing a good job of checking in. I am worried that we have not >> heard from Turk or Bill yet. Bill lives a few hours away from me, and >> goes to the same Clinic as I, so perhaps I can do some research... Anyone >> close to Turk in New York?? > > Turk passed away over a year ago. I was one of his FB friends. > Sue > > > ^'^ ^'^ ^'^ ^'^ ^'^ ^'^ > “Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live > forever.†-- Gandhi > Sky Paintings and Science Stuff: > http://auroraborealispage.net/aurora.html > Where My Spirit Lives: > http://auroraborealispage.net/alaska.html > Toby, the Owl Who Flew Away: > http://www.auroraborealispage.net/owl.html > > > ------------------------------------ > > Be sure to visit and use other ZapLife.org services: > > The ZapperBBS at > http://zaplife.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=1 > 1 - Email list forum at > / > 2 - Email delivery of the Zapper Newsletter at > 2/ > 3 - Email list forum for those involved in ICD litigation at > 3/ > ZapChat - Real time online support group (Thursdays 8PM EST) at > http://www.zaplife.org/chat.html > ZapFAQs - A glossary of ICD/arrhythmia terms and abbreviations at > http://www.zaplife.org/zap4.htm > The ZAPPER Home page at > http://www.zaplife.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 I concur with Guin, I too have PTSD and the replacement is easy peasy it's the lead changes that scare the begezies our of me. I've had mine nearly 15 yrs - SCA at the age of 31 and have had two shocks since. Good luck to you Lynn!!! In a message dated 7/17/2012 8:40:54 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, guin@... writes: Lynn; Sounds like your Medtronic is on Target. I use mine the same as you (no shocks, very little pacing), mine was implanted Mar 06. They do tend to last around 6 years... The replacement are very simple, much less than initial implant. If your leads don't have to be replaced, then it is a simple in and out, and home in a few hours. I hope this will ease your worrying, from a PTSD standpoint. They say - it is a 'piece of cake'!!! Good luck to you! ~guin On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Lynn Siprelle <lynn@...> wrote: Hi, folks--Still here. The battery's running down on the ICD I got in May '06, even though it's never gone off and I rarely get paced. I guess in addition to the lead problem, this Medtronic has a battery problem they tell me. So some time in the next 18 months I get a new unit. Not looking forward to it from a PTSD standpoint.Lynn S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 On Jul 17, 2012, at 10:20 PM, Neajo@... wrote: > > > I concur with Guin, I too have PTSD and the replacement is easy peasy it's the lead changes that scare the begezies our of me. I've had mine nearly 15 yrs - SCA at the age of 31 and have had two shocks since. Thanks for the reassurances, guys, that helps. Lynn S. ------ Mama, homeschooler, writer, activist, dancer, spinner & knitter Portfolio: http://www.siprelle.com For feminist homemakers: http://www.TheNewHomemaker.com NOTICE: The National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 May he rest in peace... In a message dated 7/17/2012 7:58:06 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, konkontu2011@... writes: I am so sorry to hear that Turk has passed away.Sydney Re: CHECK - IN !!! Turk? Bill?> We are all doing a good job of checking in. I am worried that we have not > heard from Turk or Bill yet. Bill lives a few hours away from me, and > goes to the same Clinic as I, so perhaps I can do some research... Anyone > close to Turk in New York?? Turk passed away over a year ago. I was one of his FB friends. Sue^'^ ^'^ ^'^ ^'^ ^'^ ^'^“Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to liveforever.†-- GandhiSky Paintings and Science Stuff:http://auroraborealispage.net/aurora.htmlWhere My Spirit Lives:http://auroraborealispage.net/alaska.htmlToby, the Owl Who Flew Away:http://www.auroraborealispage.net/owl.html------------------------------------Be sure to visit and use other ZapLife.org services:The ZapperBBS at http://zaplife.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=11 - Email list forum at /2 - Email delivery of the Zapper Newsletter at 2/3 - Email list forum for those involved in ICD litigation at 3/ZapChat - Real time online support group (Thursdays 8PM EST) at http://www.zaplife.org/chat.htmlZapFAQs - A glossary of ICD/arrhythmia terms and abbreviations at http://www.zaplife.org/zap4.htmThe ZAPPER Home page at http://www.zaplife.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Guin, I also have very small veins and last year when they had to replace a wire, he put 2 wires in the same artery. He said it was quite tight but he did it. My left arm now swells some and he told me if it swells a lot that I need to call him. It really makes me nervous that I am going to have to get leads taken out next time I need a new one. Ruth From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Guin Van Dyke Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:02 PM Subject: Re: CHECK - IN !!! Turk? Bill? Hi Guys; We are all doing a good job of checking in. I am worried that we have not heard from Turk or Bill yet. Bill lives a few hours away from me, and goes to the same Clinic as I, so perhaps I can do some research... Anyone close to Turk in New York?? Everyone: Keep checking in.... My update is: My battery is at 2.64 and we replace at 2.61, so I will be up for my FOURTH ICD relatively soon. This one has been 6 1/2 years so far... I will be 54 in a few days, and was originally implanted at the age of 41! It will be interesting to see what sort of new unit is available today. My leads are going on 13 years old, no one is talking replacement yet. I am not in a hurry to have them replaced, but since I have very small veins, I'd rather have them replaced sooner, rather than later! Great to hear from everyone! ~guin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Oh Ruth, ouch! What questions should I be asking as I'm going to be due for replacement too and u have one if those faulty Fidelis leads. They want to remove, but I am so afraid I can't make myself do it. Replacement doesn't bother me, it's the lead removal.Judi McIntosh, President/CEOSwimsational Swim School, LLCwww.swimsational.netOn Jul 19, 2012, at 2:37 PM, "Ruth Hirsch" <sishirsch@...> wrote: Guin, I also have very small veins and last year when they had to replace a wire, he put 2 wires in the same artery. He said it was quite tight but he did it. My left arm now swells some and he told me if it swells a lot that I need to call him. It really makes me nervous that I am going to have to get leads taken out next time I need a new one. Ruth From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Guin Van Dyke Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:02 PM Subject: Re: CHECK - IN !!! Turk? Bill? Hi Guys; We are all doing a good job of checking in. I am worried that we have not heard from Turk or Bill yet. Bill lives a few hours away from me, and goes to the same Clinic as I, so perhaps I can do some research... Anyone close to Turk in New York?? Everyone: Keep checking in.... My update is: My battery is at 2.64 and we replace at 2.61, so I will be up for my FOURTH ICD relatively soon. This one has been 6 1/2 years so far... I will be 54 in a few days, and was originally implanted at the age of 41! It will be interesting to see what sort of new unit is available today. My leads are going on 13 years old, no one is talking replacement yet. I am not in a hurry to have them replaced, but since I have very small veins, I'd rather have them replaced sooner, rather than later! Great to hear from everyone! ~guin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Yes, Ruth, my arteries, some were so small they couldn't even put one lead in... I don't look forward to lead removal but I would rather have them removed, while I am younger, and the lead hasn't been in for years an years... The sooner they come out, the easier it is... Of course we need skilled surgeons, and we need to make sure a thorasic surgeon is standing by in case you bleed out and a have to be opened up for immediate repair. This happens in 1% of lead removal, and I have only heard of it happening once - to my friend this last Monday. One of her veins developed a hole and bled out - she had to be opened for immediate repair. She is fine, but it will be alooong recovery. Don't be afraid to ask questions, and definately ask what there % rate is of infection, or having to be opened up... Also talk about abandoning the lead in the vein, and finding a new vein for the new lead. Good luck!~guinOn Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 1:02 PM, McIntosh <winmmacranch@...> wrote: Oh Ruth, ouch! What questions should I be asking as I'm going to be due for replacement too and u have one if those faulty Fidelis leads. They want to remove, but I am so afraid I can't make myself do it. Replacement doesn't bother me, it's the lead removal. Judi McIntosh, President/CEOSwimsational Swim School, LLCwww.swimsational.netOn Jul 19, 2012, at 2:37 PM, " Ruth Hirsch " <sishirsch@...> wrote: Guin, I also have very small veins and last year when they had to replace a wire, he put 2 wires in the same artery. He said it was quite tight but he did it. My left arm now swells some and he told me if it swells a lot that I need to call him. It really makes me nervous that I am going to have to get leads taken out next time I need a new one. Ruth From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Guin Van Dyke Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:02 PM Subject: Re: CHECK - IN !!! Turk? Bill? Hi Guys; We are all doing a good job of checking in. I am worried that we have not heard from Turk or Bill yet. Bill lives a few hours away from me, and goes to the same Clinic as I, so perhaps I can do some research... Anyone close to Turk in New York?? Everyone: Keep checking in.... My update is: My battery is at 2.64 and we replace at 2.61, so I will be up for my FOURTH ICD relatively soon. This one has been 6 1/2 years so far... I will be 54 in a few days, and was originally implanted at the age of 41! It will be interesting to see what sort of new unit is available today. My leads are going on 13 years old, no one is talking replacement yet. I am not in a hurry to have them replaced, but since I have very small veins, I'd rather have them replaced sooner, rather than later! Great to hear from everyone! ~guin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 My doctor at the Mayo warned me of that 1% chance and it scares me. He said it happened to one of his patients.I need to have something done at some point!Sent from my iPhoneOn Jul 19, 2012, at 6:55 PM, Guin Van Dyke <guin@...> wrote: Yes, Ruth, my arteries, some were so small they couldn't even put one lead in... I don't look forward to lead removal but I would rather have them removed, while I am younger, and the lead hasn't been in for years an years... The sooner they come out, the easier it is... Of course we need skilled surgeons, and we need to make sure a thorasic surgeon is standing by in case you bleed out and a have to be opened up for immediate repair. This happens in 1% of lead removal, and I have only heard of it happening once - to my friend this last Monday. One of her veins developed a hole and bled out - she had to be opened for immediate repair. She is fine, but it will be alooong recovery. Don't be afraid to ask questions, and definately ask what there % rate is of infection, or having to be opened up... Also talk about abandoning the lead in the vein, and finding a new vein for the new lead. Good luck!~guinOn Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 1:02 PM, McIntosh <winmmacranch@...> wrote: Oh Ruth, ouch! What questions should I be asking as I'm going to be due for replacement too and u have one if those faulty Fidelis leads. They want to remove, but I am so afraid I can't make myself do it. Replacement doesn't bother me, it's the lead removal. Judi McIntosh, President/CEOSwimsational Swim School, LLCwww.swimsational.netOn Jul 19, 2012, at 2:37 PM, "Ruth Hirsch" <sishirsch@...> wrote: Guin, I also have very small veins and last year when they had to replace a wire, he put 2 wires in the same artery. He said it was quite tight but he did it. My left arm now swells some and he told me if it swells a lot that I need to call him. It really makes me nervous that I am going to have to get leads taken out next time I need a new one. Ruth From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Guin Van Dyke Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:02 PM Subject: Re: CHECK - IN !!! Turk? Bill? Hi Guys; We are all doing a good job of checking in. I am worried that we have not heard from Turk or Bill yet. Bill lives a few hours away from me, and goes to the same Clinic as I, so perhaps I can do some research... Anyone close to Turk in New York?? Everyone: Keep checking in.... My update is: My battery is at 2.64 and we replace at 2.61, so I will be up for my FOURTH ICD relatively soon. This one has been 6 1/2 years so far... I will be 54 in a few days, and was originally implanted at the age of 41! It will be interesting to see what sort of new unit is available today. My leads are going on 13 years old, no one is talking replacement yet. I am not in a hurry to have them replaced, but since I have very small veins, I'd rather have them replaced sooner, rather than later! Great to hear from everyone! ~guin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Guin, Thanks for the information. I really appreciate hearing anything I can about this process. Ruth From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Guin Van Dyke Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 7:55 PM Subject: Re: CHECK - IN !!! Turk? Bill? Yes, Ruth, my arteries, some were so small they couldn't even put one lead in... I don't look forward to lead removal but I would rather have them removed, while I am younger, and the lead hasn't been in for years an years... The sooner they come out, the easier it is... Of course we need skilled surgeons, and we need to make sure a thorasic surgeon is standing by in case you bleed out and a have to be opened up for immediate repair. This happens in 1% of lead removal, and I have only heard of it happening once - to my friend this last Monday. One of her veins developed a hole and bled out - she had to be opened for immediate repair. She is fine, but it will be alooong recovery. Don't be afraid to ask questions, and definately ask what there % rate is of infection, or having to be opened up... Also talk about abandoning the lead in the vein, and finding a new vein for the new lead. Good luck! ~guin On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 1:02 PM, McIntosh <winmmacranch@...> wrote: Oh Ruth, ouch! What questions should I be asking as I'm going to be due for replacement too and u have one if those faulty Fidelis leads. They want to remove, but I am so afraid I can't make myself do it. Replacement doesn't bother me, it's the lead removal. Judi McIntosh, President/CEO Swimsational Swim School, LLC www.swimsational.net On Jul 19, 2012, at 2:37 PM, " Ruth Hirsch " <sishirsch@...> wrote: Guin, I also have very small veins and last year when they had to replace a wire, he put 2 wires in the same artery. He said it was quite tight but he did it. My left arm now swells some and he told me if it swells a lot that I need to call him. It really makes me nervous that I am going to have to get leads taken out next time I need a new one. Ruth From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Guin Van Dyke Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:02 PM Subject: Re: CHECK - IN !!! Turk? Bill? Hi Guys; We are all doing a good job of checking in. I am worried that we have not heard from Turk or Bill yet. Bill lives a few hours away from me, and goes to the same Clinic as I, so perhaps I can do some research... Anyone close to Turk in New York?? Everyone: Keep checking in.... My update is: My battery is at 2.64 and we replace at 2.61, so I will be up for my FOURTH ICD relatively soon. This one has been 6 1/2 years so far... I will be 54 in a few days, and was originally implanted at the age of 41! It will be interesting to see what sort of new unit is available today. My leads are going on 13 years old, no one is talking replacement yet. I am not in a hurry to have them replaced, but since I have very small veins, I'd rather have them replaced sooner, rather than later! Great to hear from everyone! ~guin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 My fears exactly.Judi McIntosh, President/CEOSwimsational Swim School, LLCwww.swimsational.netOn Jul 19, 2012, at 7:09 PM, Falness <marshmello1982@...> wrote: My doctor at the Mayo warned me of that 1% chance and it scares me. He said it happened to one of his patients.I need to have something done at some point!Sent from my iPhoneOn Jul 19, 2012, at 6:55 PM, Guin Van Dyke <guin@...> wrote: Yes, Ruth, my arteries, some were so small they couldn't even put one lead in... I don't look forward to lead removal but I would rather have them removed, while I am younger, and the lead hasn't been in for years an years... The sooner they come out, the easier it is... Of course we need skilled surgeons, and we need to make sure a thorasic surgeon is standing by in case you bleed out and a have to be opened up for immediate repair. This happens in 1% of lead removal, and I have only heard of it happening once - to my friend this last Monday. One of her veins developed a hole and bled out - she had to be opened for immediate repair. She is fine, but it will be alooong recovery. Don't be afraid to ask questions, and definately ask what there % rate is of infection, or having to be opened up... Also talk about abandoning the lead in the vein, and finding a new vein for the new lead. Good luck!~guinOn Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 1:02 PM, McIntosh <winmmacranch@...> wrote: Oh Ruth, ouch! What questions should I be asking as I'm going to be due for replacement too and u have one if those faulty Fidelis leads. They want to remove, but I am so afraid I can't make myself do it. Replacement doesn't bother me, it's the lead removal. Judi McIntosh, President/CEOSwimsational Swim School, LLCwww.swimsational.netOn Jul 19, 2012, at 2:37 PM, "Ruth Hirsch" <sishirsch@...> wrote: Guin, I also have very small veins and last year when they had to replace a wire, he put 2 wires in the same artery. He said it was quite tight but he did it. My left arm now swells some and he told me if it swells a lot that I need to call him. It really makes me nervous that I am going to have to get leads taken out next time I need a new one. Ruth From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Guin Van Dyke Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:02 PM Subject: Re: CHECK - IN !!! Turk? Bill? Hi Guys; We are all doing a good job of checking in. I am worried that we have not heard from Turk or Bill yet. Bill lives a few hours away from me, and goes to the same Clinic as I, so perhaps I can do some research... Anyone close to Turk in New York?? Everyone: Keep checking in.... My update is: My battery is at 2.64 and we replace at 2.61, so I will be up for my FOURTH ICD relatively soon. This one has been 6 1/2 years so far... I will be 54 in a few days, and was originally implanted at the age of 41! It will be interesting to see what sort of new unit is available today. My leads are going on 13 years old, no one is talking replacement yet. I am not in a hurry to have them replaced, but since I have very small veins, I'd rather have them replaced sooner, rather than later! Great to hear from everyone! ~guin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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