blood test

[Guest guest]

i have learnt a lot this last few days. i have had chronic depression

for 15 yrs and i never get better. i have taken AD's for 11 of these yrs.

we are trying for a baby and a did a fertility test - bingo i am sub

fertile. i have done 2 hospital tests and now have an appointment to

see the urologist mid may. all this has lead me to do some research.

today i got those blood tests results and basically what i have learnt

is i am probably hypothyrodic. the TSH result is so crucial and so is

the range. I should be under 2 and really around 1. i am 3.2 so this

TSH hormone is being produced calling for the thyroxine and it aint

getting it - hence highish reading. there is a big debate about the

ranges, but i will not go into that.

So how do i feel. well crap and have done for 15 yrs. now i know a

bit more about myself and will be trialing adrenal supplements and

armour. then i will see the urologist and see what his take is.

hypothyroid affects all the things which i have wrong with me (and so

does testosterone for that matter).

anyway i will let the board know what happens in the next few weeks.

> Here's another prospective: All you labs fall with the normal

> range. And while some in this group may believe that you can tweak

> all your labs, I have yet to see them post any evidence to support

> this cookbook approach to hormonal management. The real question

> that you need to be asking is not what your labs mean, but how do you

> feel? I recommend that you focus on that, and not any specific lab

> value. There are many people with your lab values that feel

> perfectly fine with your t level, and that is especially true of your

> TSH level. Again, all your labs are normal. What symtoms drove you

> to see a specialist?

>

> - In , philip georgian <pmgamer18@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Your Testosterone levels are just above the normal range but normal

> for a man over 90 yrs. of age. Your LH is on the low side if your

> testis were not working to make Testosterone this LH would be at or

> above the top of the range. Your Pituitary would be asking from more

> testosterone so your on the lower side tells me you can have a

> pituitary problem needs to be looked in to. Also your TSH is very

> high tells me your Pituitary is asking for more thyroid hormones

> because your Thyroid is not workng right. You need to test your Free

> T3 and Free T4 to be sure.

> >

> > I don't see your estradiol tested get this tested before treating

> your low testosterone levels if high you need to get this down.

> >

> > marsaday1971 <jphenderson@> wrote:

> > i have got my blood results today. i wondered if anyone

> could help

> > with interpretation. i am normal all round. although a bit low on

> > testosterone.

> >

> > i am in the uk so will give you the range as well where i have it.

> >

> > Test = 10.91 (10-31)

> >

> > LH = 3.6 (1-8)

> >

> > FSH = 9.5

> >

> > TSH = 3.2 (0.4-4)

> > T4 = 12 (10-23)

> >

> > Ferettin = 137

> >

> > any interpretation is appreciated. i see the specialist mid may

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what

> you see. "

> > Phil

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile.

> Try it now.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

58 years old, primary, taking 7.5 g of

<http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/testosterone-transdermal.htm>andr\

ogel

daily. I work out 2 hrs/day. Just got back some recent blood work.

The

<http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/testosterone.htm>testosterone

numbers are lower than in previous tests but I feel great, have a

great libido, good wood and strong erections, big ejaculates

given these numbers-- any thoughts???

estradiol-2 = 21 pg/ml (20-75)

prolactin-2 -= 9,9ng/ml (2.6-13.1)

PSA = 1.0 (0.0-3.5)

T4 free 0.7 ng/dl (0.61-1.12)

TSH = 0.84nmcIU/ml (0.40-4.00)

total tesosterone = 390 ng/dl (241-827)

sex hormone binding globulin = 24 nmol/L (18-47)

albumin = 4.5 g/dl (3.6-5.1)

testosterone free = 90 pg/ml (34-194)

tesosterone free + wb = 182 ng/dl (84-402)

CBC = completely normal!!

Is my thyroid panel out of whack????

am i I taking enough test???? Would you take more?? I have some

enanthate that I could inject in small dosages. Would it help me??

thanks in advance

[Guest guest]

The estradiol test with a range of 20-75 is not anygood it's for women. You

need to do this test if using Quest

labs. Estradiol Ultrasensitive code #30289X the range is <then or = 29

anything below 29 and above 15 is good.

Your gel is not getting through your skin and you need to switch to shots try

doing 100 mgs. of Depo T every week and test in 6 weeks try getting your levels

up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range. For both TT and FT. To tell if your

thyroid is ok test free T3 Also check your Ferritin levels if low below 50 get

on some Iron pills.

I would say if your feeling good keep doing what your doing but lower levels

like this for some of us cause bone loss and our joints and muscles suffer.

I would not mix gels with shots this drive up my estradiol levels big time.

kipp kruse <kckruse@...> wrote:

58 years old, primary, taking 7.5 g of

<http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/testosterone-transdermal.htm>andr\

ogel

daily. I work out 2 hrs/day. Just got back some recent blood work.

The

<http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/testosterone.htm>testosterone

numbers are lower than in previous tests but I feel great, have a

great libido, good wood and strong erections, big ejaculates

given these numbers-- any thoughts???

estradiol-2 = 21 pg/ml (20-75)

prolactin-2 -= 9,9ng/ml (2.6-13.1)

PSA = 1.0 (0.0-3.5)

T4 free 0.7 ng/dl (0.61-1.12)

TSH = 0.84nmcIU/ml (0.40-4.00)

total tesosterone = 390 ng/dl (241-827)

sex hormone binding globulin = 24 nmol/L (18-47)

albumin = 4.5 g/dl (3.6-5.1)

testosterone free = 90 pg/ml (34-194)

tesosterone free + wb = 182 ng/dl (84-402)

CBC = completely normal!!

Is my thyroid panel out of whack????

am i I taking enough test???? Would you take more?? I have some

enanthate that I could inject in small dosages. Would it help me??

thanks in advance

[Guest guest]

At 09:26 AM 4/22/2008, you wrote:

>The estradiol test with a range of 20-75 is not anygood it's for

>women. You need to do this test if using Quest

>labs. Estradiol Ultrasensitive code #30289X the range is <then or =

>29 anything below 29 and above 15 is good.

>

not true according to Quest

normal range for males (estradiol-2, pg/ml) = 20-75

post menopausal females = 20-88

females non-pregnant

mid follicular = 24-114

periovulatory = 62-534

mid luteal = 80-273

>given these numbers-- any thoughts???

>

>estradiol-2 = 21 pg/ml (20-75)

>prolactin-2 -= 9,9ng/ml (2.6-13.1)

>PSA = 1.0 (0.0-3.5)

>T4 free 0.7 ng/dl (0.61-1.12)

>TSH = 0.84nmcIU/ml (0.40-4.00)

>total tesosterone = 390 ng/dl (241-827)

>sex hormone binding globulin = 24 nmol/L (18-47)

>albumin = 4.5 g/dl (3.6-5.1)

>testosterone free = 90 pg/ml (34-194)

>tesosterone free + wb = 182 ng/dl (84-402)

>

>CBC = completely normal!!

>

>Is my thyroid panel out of whack????

>

>am i I taking enough test???? Would you take more?? I have some

>enanthate that I could inject in small dosages. Would it help me??

>

>thanks in advance

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok if that is what you feel you need to believe I am only telling you what Dr.

has been saying for yrs. You can go to his site and post about this and

get an ear full.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s= & daysprune= & f=2

I have lost count as to how many times I have talked to Quest labs and was

told to have my Dr. call they would not talk to me.

When they came out with this new test <29 the old one was 13 to 54 pg/ml any

test that gives the low end as <20 is not a male test. Meany of us called them

to find out what the levels were as to the old range 13 to 54 they would not

talk to us. If you read LEF they feel the best range is 10 to 30 pg/ml best at

20.

Here is a cut and paste from this link.

http://www.lef.org/protocols/appendix/blood_testing_01.htm

======================================================

Standard reference ranges have failed aging people because these reference

ranges are adjusted to reflect age. Since it is normal for an aging person to

have imbalances of critical hormones, standard laboratory reference ranges do

not flag dangerously high levels of estrogen and insulin or deficient levels of

testosterone, thyroid, and DHEA. The following table compares standard and

optimal hormone and TSH blood reference ranges for 60-year-old men.

Hormone

Standard Reference Range

Life Extension’s Optimal Range

DHEA

42–290 µg/dL

280–500 µg/dL

Insulin (fasting)

6–27 µIU/mL

Under 5 µIU/mL

Free testosterone

6.6–18.1 pg/mL

15–22 pg/mL

Estradiol

<54 pg/mL

10–30 pg/mL

Thyroid stimulating hormone

0.35–5.50 mIU/mL

0.35 to 2.1 mIU/mL

kipp kruse <kckruse@...> wrote:

At 09:26 AM 4/22/2008, you wrote:

>The estradiol test with a range of 20-75 is not anygood it's for

>women. You need to do this test if using Quest

>labs. Estradiol Ultrasensitive code #30289X the range is <then or =

>29 anything below 29 and above 15 is good.

>

not true according to Quest

normal range for males (estradiol-2, pg/ml) = 20-75

post menopausal females = 20-88

females non-pregnant

mid follicular = 24-114

periovulatory = 62-534

mid luteal = 80-273

>given these numbers-- any thoughts???

>

>estradiol-2 = 21 pg/ml (20-75)

>prolactin-2 -= 9,9ng/ml (2.6-13.1)

>PSA = 1.0 (0.0-3.5)

>T4 free 0.7 ng/dl (0.61-1.12)

>TSH = 0.84nmcIU/ml (0.40-4.00)

>total tesosterone = 390 ng/dl (241-827)

>sex hormone binding globulin = 24 nmol/L (18-47)

>albumin = 4.5 g/dl (3.6-5.1)

>testosterone free = 90 pg/ml (34-194)

>tesosterone free + wb = 182 ng/dl (84-402)

>

>CBC = completely normal!!

>

>Is my thyroid panel out of whack????

>

>am i I taking enough test???? Would you take more?? I have some

>enanthate that I could inject in small dosages. Would it help me??

>

>thanks in advance

>

>

[Guest guest]

Can blood test determine if you have CMT?

[Guest guest]

Yes, there are DNA blood testing for CMT. But not for all the subtypes.

http://neuromuscular.wustl.edu/time/hmsn.html

http://geneclinics.org/servlet/access?id=8888891 & testtype=both & qry=charcot+marie\

+tooth & submit=Search & showglossarylinks=yes & db=genetests & fcn=b & res= & key=zftPNzcny\

b9l8 & testtype=both & type=e & ls=c & grp=b & submit=Search

http://www.athenadiagnostics.com/content/test-catalog/

[Guest guest]

>

> Can blood test determine if you have CMT?

>

Yes, it certainly can and does.

Mark

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:36:34 -0000, you wrote:

>Blood test results after two 5mg patches/day was bad 240 on a scale of 300 to

900 normal range.Doc suggested 4 patches/day.I told him out of the question. Too

many red marks and too expensive. I suggested self injection twice weekly with a

office vist once a month for blood work.He was open to this but had to check on

legal issues because T is a controlled substance.I agreed to do 4 patches until

he finds out.Guess what? The insurance company(BCBS) won't cover.And they said

I've already used a months supply at two/day.Now I'm out for two weeks!I called

the doctor back and they will call the insurance and pharmacy if they get

clearance.They also are still checking on self injection but said not to get my

hopes up because of controlled substance issues.I feel like I'm up a creek

without a paddle.How do you guys in Michigan self inject?Do you get your meds

and supplies from the doc or pharmacy?Does your insurance cover the costs?Have

you found away around the legal issues? I'm calling

>the doc back at 8am to see what he's found out and will asked for an injection

to tide me over.If he won't cooperate I'm calling Phil's docter s for a

appointment.Thanks in advance for the help.

The medicare/medicaid guidelines I 'm told know suggest office

injections. But once a week is adequate for most of us. A letter to

the insurer noting that patches were a failure and your T is medically

necessary to avoid osteoporosis and heart and stroke issues should

wake them up. When dealing with insurers ALWAYS put everything in

writing and sent it certified mail return receipt requested. This

creates a record and they know that's your intent. So they'll usually

treat you better. Insist on written replies. They love to make

promises over the phone without a record of content.

A friend worked at a insurance claims office and told me in that

office they threw out one out of four letters unopened. Hence the

return receipt stuff. You have to force them to honor their contracts.

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:33:35 -0000, you wrote:

>although the nurse is pretty nice and always makes jokes about grabbing my ass.

I tell my nurse I don't drop my pants for everyone.

[Guest guest]

butchpatrico wrote:

> Blood test results after two 5mg patches/day was bad 240 on a scale of 300 to

900 normal range.Doc suggested 4 patches/day.I told him out of the question. Too

many red marks and too expensive. I suggested self injection twice weekly with a

office vist once a month for blood work.He was open to this but had to check on

legal issues because T is a controlled substance.I agreed to do 4 patches until

he finds out.Guess what? The insurance company(BCBS) won't cover.And they said

I've already used a months supply at two/day.Now I'm out for two weeks!I called

the doctor back and they will call the insurance and pharmacy if they get

clearance.They also are still checking on self injection but said not to get my

hopes up because of controlled substance issues.I feel like I'm up a creek

without a paddle.How do you guys in Michigan self inject?Do you get your meds

and supplies from the doc or pharmacy?Does your insurance cover the costs?Have

you found away around the legal issues? I'

m calling the doc back at 8am to see what he's found out and will asked for an

injection to tide me over.If he won't cooperate I'm calling Phil's docter

s for a appointment.Thanks in advance for the help.

A 10 ml retail vial of 200 mg/ml from which you inject 100 mg (1/2 ml)

weekly cost from $50-$90 depending where you get it. (I haven't checked

compounding pharmacies lately). That vial will last 20 weeks or about 5

months. It is likely that your copay for the patches is higher.

Needles and syringes are very cheap and come in packs of 100. I used to

get compounded testosterone vials for one fourth the retail price, but

they have gotten closer in price and compounding pharmacies are less

likely to make a compounded vial.

You can also get a prescription for compounded gel that is a much higher

concentration of Testosterone than retail gel and is a lot lot cheaper

at a compounding pharmacy. That would need to be applied daily but in

much lower amounts (for the same amount of testosterone). If the daily

application isn't a problem, that " might " be a more natural way to go

with the caveat that trans dermal application of testosterone is more

likely to raise estradiol levels than injections, while injections will

produces higher peaks and lower lows during the course of a week. I

don't find that a problem at all but always get my blood drawn for

testing purposes the morning I would have injected and wait until I get

home to do the injection.

Here is an article on Testosterone Replacement published by The Life

Extension Foundation (http://www.lef.org/) that gives on page 2

instructions on how to write a testosterone prescription for compounded

testosterone.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/dec2008_Harvard-Experts-Recommend-Testostero\

ne-Replacement_01.htm

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

[Guest guest]

I'm not a nanny state advocate so this " controlled " substance BS is a

theft of natural rights to control your personal health.

However, getting prescription testosterone is a no-brainer for self

administration. Every single pharmacy likely has it in stock and it is

prescribed for low testosterone issues all the time. The only time I've

ever gone to any pharmacy that didn't have it immediately available was

about 7 or so years ago when there was a nation wide shortage. (I

switched for many years to compounded testosterone vials at the time.)

Call any pharmacy and ask if they have 10 ml vials of 200 mg/ml

testosterone and ask for pricing. They only sell this for self

injections so your doctor is either ignorant or lying. I suspect the

first but the second is not uncommon.

Steve

noonanjg wrote:

> I've been wondering the same thing. My doctor told me quite plainly that they

could not authorize home injection because it is a controlled substance. I

think most doctors will not permit this given it opens them to the risk of

losing their license. With the whole thing in the news, doctors

are going to think twice about letting patients do this. It wasn't the same

drug, but the guy had a boatload of controlled substances in his house that he

shouldn't have had. I am on weekly injections and it is a pain in the ass

(pardon the pun) having to go in every week, although the nurse is pretty nice

and always makes jokes about grabbing my ass.

>

>

>

>

>> Blood test results after two 5mg patches/day was bad 240 on a scale of 300 to

900 normal range.Doc suggested 4 patches/day.I told him out of the question. Too

many red marks and too expensive. I suggested self injection twice weekly with a

office vist once a month for blood work.He was open to this but had to check on

legal issues because T is a controlled substance.I agreed to do 4 patches until

he finds out.Guess what? The insurance company(BCBS) won't cover.And they said

I've already used a months supply at two/day.Now I'm out for two weeks!I called

the doctor back and they will call the insurance and pharmacy if they get

clearance.They also are still checking on self injection but said not to get my

hopes up because of controlled substance issues.I feel like I'm up a creek

without a paddle.How do you guys in Michigan self inject?Do you get your meds

and supplies from the doc or pharmacy?Does your insurance cover the costs?Have

you found away around the legal issues? I

'm calling the doc back at 8am to see what he's found out and will asked for an

injection to tide me over.If he won't cooperate I'm calling Phil's docter

s for a appointment.Thanks in advance for the help.

>>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

[Guest guest]

Bush wrote:

> I pick up my T from the pharmacy along with my syringes. My physician

> monitors my compliance by the blood test results that I get every three

> months and by the fact that I don't request refills more frequently than

> warranted by the amount prescribed. You may want to find a new

> physician.

I've never had a doctor that could do the math. If I see my doctor for

a Testosterone refill, I usually get a prescription for 10 ml vials (200

mg/ml) with 2 refills. Prescriptions for T are only good for 6 months.

Three vials (I use 80 mg/week) will last me 18 months if I were to

fill them all. The weird thing is that all previous insurances would

pay for patches that cost 180+/month but don't find a $50 testosterone

vial should be covered.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

[Guest guest]

So far they have just automatically reapproved me every year. It is good to have

a doctor that will play along with their games. Caremark will only give me 30

days worth of medicine so they were giving me little 1ml vials of Testosterone

Cyp. Per ml this cost more than double what a 10ml vial would cost. My doctor

finally just wrote the prescription out for 600mg per week so that they would

fill 10ml because they thought it was a 25 day prescription. Crazy.

________________________________

From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:16:36 AM

Subject: Re: Blood Test

 

I had the same problem with Caremark they told me I need to prove I am to

low every yr. to keep getting Testosterone my plain is through Chry. in Mi. I

told them there is no way in Hel* am stopping TRT to prove to them I am to low.

I called my Union Rep. he got on there As* and this approved my Testosterone and

told me this will not happen again.

I told the it better not happen or I will put a lawyer on them. Problem is when

you call them you get a person that is reading a screen and not interpreting it

right. You should only need to prove this once do they tell people to stop there

insulin to prove there sugar is to high. So next time ask to speck to a

supervisor.

I am on Cialis 5 mgs a day for my heart they don't pay for ED drugs anymore so

my Dr. had to send them a letter saying this is for my heart. WTF happens they

send me the amount one is aloud for ED giving me 36 pills to last me 90 days. I

was on the phone with them until I was blue in the face nice house no one home.

So I called my Dr. told him to change the dose to 20 mgs they sent me 36 pills

to last 90 days and I have to cut them into 3 parts and take one everyday.

Give me a break.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Thornton <brianee93@sbcglobal .net>

> Subject: Re: Blood Test

>

> Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 7:44 AM

> My prescription insurance is

> Caremark. My doctor had to write a letter with a lot of

> detail to get prior authorization before they would fill the

> Rx. Every year they review my case and send me a letter

> approving me for another year.

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> From: butchpatrico <butchpatrico>

>

> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 6:36:34 AM

> Subject: Blood Test

>

>  

> Blood test results after two 5mg patches/day was bad 240 on

> a scale of 300 to 900 normal range.Doc suggested 4

> patches/day. I told him out of the question. Too many red

> marks and too expensive. I suggested self injection twice

> weekly with a office vist once a month for blood work.He was

> open to this but had to check on legal issues because T is a

> controlled substance.I agreed to do 4 patches until he finds

> out.Guess what? The insurance company(BCBS) won't cover.And

> they said I've already used a months supply at two/day.Now

> I'm out for two weeks!I called the doctor back and they will

> call the insurance and pharmacy if they get clearance.They

> also are still checking on self injection but said not to

> get my hopes up because of controlled substance issues.I

> feel like I'm up a creek without a paddle.How do you guys in

> Michigan self inject?Do you get your meds and supplies from

> the doc or pharmacy?Does your insurance cover the costs?Have

> you found away around

> the legal issues? I'm calling the doc back at 8am to see

> what he's found out and will asked for an injection to tide

> me over.If he won't cooperate I'm calling Phil's docter

> s for a appointment. Thanks in advance for the help.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would just add that you might look online for syringes depending on the laws

in your state. I get 100 syringes for under $20. 100 insulin syringes are around

$12.

________________________________

From: Randy Hoops <Randy@...>

Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 11:13:11 AM

Subject: Re: Blood Test

 

I've been on Testosterone injections for about 20 months now, and have been

doing injections at home for 15 months or so.

After the nurse in the doctor's office supervised my wife giving me the

injection we got the prescriptions for syringes, drawing needles and

Testosterone Cypionate. We went to Walgreens and picked it all up. Syringes

weren't covered by insurance but were under $20 for 50 syringes. A vial of

Testosterone is around $115, but my insurance co-pay is $15

I've never had a question or problem. In fact I can get a 10 ml vial of T every

month if I want, for the $ 15 co-pay.

Schedule III simply means you need a doctor's prescription. Otherwise it is

illegal to posess or sell.

You will probably need a diagnosis of " hypogonadism " to satisfy the insurance

company, and make sure the doctor is covered.

Even without insurance, a 10 ml vial of " T " , 50 syringes and needles should cost

less than $140, and that should be a 20 week supply.

That's exactly $ 1 / day.

Unlike other drugs that required research to create and could be patented,

Testosterone can never be patented. Any regular drug company can make it without

license fees.

Since it is subject to abuse it is a schedule III drug. This only means you need

a doctor's prescription and it is illegal to give it away or sell it or posess

it without a doctor's prescription.

The doctor's prescription changes everything, and that is entirely up to the

doctor.

>

> Blood test results after two 5mg patches/day was bad 240 on a scale of 300 to

900 normal range.Doc suggested 4 patches/day. I told him out of the question.

Too many red marks and too expensive. I suggested self injection twice weekly

with a office vist once a month for blood work.He was open to this but had to

check on legal issues because T is a controlled substance.I agreed to do 4

patches until he finds out.Guess what? The insurance company(BCBS) won't

cover.And they said I've already used a months supply at two/day.Now I'm out for

two weeks!I called the doctor back and they will call the insurance and pharmacy

if they get clearance.They also are still checking on self injection but said

not to get my hopes up because of controlled substance issues.I feel like I'm up

a creek without a paddle.How do you guys in Michigan self inject?Do you get your

meds and supplies from the doc or pharmacy?Does your insurance cover the

costs?Have you found away

around the legal issues? I'm calling the doc back at 8am to see what he's found

out and will asked for an injection to tide me over.If he won't cooperate I'm

calling Phil's docter s for a appointment. Thanks in advance for the help.

>

[Guest guest]

A 10 ml retail vial of 200 mg/ml from which you inject 100 mg (1/2 ml)

weekly cost from $50-$90 depending where you get it. (I haven't checked

compounding pharmacies lately). That vial will last 20 weeks or about 5

months. It is likely that your copay for the patches is higher.

Needles and syringes are very cheap and come in packs of 100. I used to

get compounded testosterone vials for one fourth the retail price, but

they have gotten closer in price and compounding pharmacies are less

likely to make a compounded vial.

You can also get a prescription for compounded gel that is a much higher

concentration of Testosterone than retail gel and is a lot lot cheaper

at a compounding pharmacy. That would need to be applied daily but in

much lower amounts (for the same amount of testosterone). If the daily

application isn't a problem, that " might " be a more natural way to go

with the caveat that trans dermal application of testosterone is more

likely to raise estradiol levels than injections, while injections will

produces higher peaks and lower lows during the course of a week. I

don't find that a problem at all but always get my blood drawn for

testing purposes the morning I would have injected and wait until I get

home to do the injection.

Here is an article on Testosterone Replacement published by The Life

Extension Foundation (http://www.lef.org/) that gives on page 2

instructions on how to write a testosterone prescription for compounded

testosterone.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/dec2008_Harvard-Experts-Recommend-Testostero\

ne-Replacement_01.htm

Steve

Thornton wrote:

> My prescription insurance is Caremark. My doctor had to write a letter with a

lot of detail to get prior authorization before they would fill the Rx. Every

year they review my case and send me a letter approving me for another year.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

[Guest guest]

Yep most insurances for drugs push you to use generics yet when it comes to Depo

T in shots the lowest cost form of TRT there is they give you a hard time about

it yet if your Dr. asks for Androgel not a problem so how can they push one to

use Generics to keep cost down and do this. Nice house no one home.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > I pick up my T from the pharmacy along with my

> syringes. My physician

> > monitors my  compliance by the blood test results

> that I get every three

> > months and by the fact that I don't request refills

> more frequently than

> > warranted by the amount prescribed. You may want to

> find a new

> > physician.

>

> I've never had a doctor that could do the math.  If I

> see my doctor for

> a Testosterone refill, I usually get a prescription for 10

> ml vials (200

> mg/ml) with 2 refills.  Prescriptions for T are only

> good for 6 months.

>   Three vials (I use 80 mg/week) will last me 18

> months if I were to

> fill them all.  The weird thing is that all previous

> insurances would

> pay for patches that cost 180+/month but don't find a $50

> testosterone

> vial should be covered.

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@...

>

> " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

> run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

>

> " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American

> Patriotism "

>

> Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I know my Dr. does the same thing for me he orders 2x's the dose so I can cut

them in half.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: Thornton <brianee93@sbcglobal .net>

> > Subject: Re: Blood Test

> >

> > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 7:44 AM

> > My prescription insurance is

> > Caremark. My doctor had to write a letter with a lot

> of

> > detail to get prior authorization before they would

> fill the

> > Rx. Every year they review my case and send me a

> letter

> > approving me for another year.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > From: butchpatrico <butchpatrico>

> >

> > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 6:36:34 AM

> > Subject: Blood Test

> >

> >  

> > Blood test results after two 5mg patches/day was bad

> 240 on

> > a scale of 300 to 900 normal range.Doc suggested 4

> > patches/day. I told him out of the question. Too many

> red

> > marks and too expensive. I suggested self injection

> twice

> > weekly with a office vist once a month for blood

> work.He was

> > open to this but had to check on legal issues because

> T is a

> > controlled substance.I agreed to do 4 patches until he

> finds

> > out.Guess what? The insurance company(BCBS) won't

> cover.And

> > they said I've already used a months supply at

> two/day.Now

> > I'm out for two weeks!I called the doctor back and

> they will

> > call the insurance and pharmacy if they get

> clearance.They

> > also are still checking on self injection but said not

> to

> > get my hopes up because of controlled substance

> issues.I

> > feel like I'm up a creek without a paddle.How do you

> guys in

> > Michigan self inject?Do you get your meds and supplies

> from

> > the doc or pharmacy?Does your insurance cover the

> costs?Have

> > you found away around

> > the legal issues? I'm calling the doc back at 8am to

> see

> > what he's found out and will asked for an injection to

> tide

> > me over.If he won't cooperate I'm calling Phil's

> docter

> > s for a appointment. Thanks in advance for the

> help.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>

> I've been wondering the same thing. My doctor told me quite plainly > that

they could not authorize home injection because it is a

> controlled substance. I think most doctors will not permit this

Hi,

and of course the real reason THE DOCTOR (not the DEA, not the LAW) won't permit

it is if you self inject safely at home they don't get to charge for a doctor's

visit and an injection.

there's an outfit locally that's advertising heavily on the radio and from their

web site the best they can do is 3 shots of cypionate a month in office (no hcg,

no arimidex) for 250$/month with a 6 month contract...

and that should take less than 5 min a shot (easy... especially if they're

loading up BUNCHES of 1/2cc syringes at once and pushing it through a 21g NAIL)

and they probably get a bulk price on cypionate " the latest medication " per

their ad...

I would think " the latest " thing would be nebido...

or at least a compounded sustanon type blend.

but it's just a money mill to have you come in, bend over, alcohol wipe, stick

and go.

[Guest guest]

> I've been wondering the same thing. My doctor told me quite plainly > that

they could not authorize home injection because it is a

> controlled substance. I think most doctors will not permit this

for Docs/Clinics that do a LOT of TRT (and there are getting to be quite a

few... doesn't mean they're competent just that they're advertising the service)

demanding In Office shots is just a money mill.

I get my blood work done every 4 months at the local medical school department

of endocrinology CHEAP (just show up on thurs am, checkoff the tests you want

run and where you want the results sent) and order my meds from a couple of IOPs

like www.alldaychemist.com, syringes from www.getpinz.com, etc.

overall it's easier, cheaper, better than spending my time teaching an

" endocrinologist " about TRT, armidex, e2, etc

[Guest guest]

Did you find out about this testing at a local med school on the internet? I

would be interested to find out if there is something like this in St. Louis.

There are Web sites that will send you to Labcorp and give you results. Their

prices aren't too bad but not exactly cheap.

________________________________

From: jbbooks1901 <jbbooks1901@...>

Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2009 11:41:12 AM

Subject: Re: Blood Test

 

> I've been wondering the same thing. My doctor told me quite plainly > that

they could not authorize home injection because it is a

> controlled substance. I think most doctors will not permit this

for Docs/Clinics that do a LOT of TRT (and there are getting to be quite a

few... doesn't mean they're competent just that they're advertising the service)

demanding In Office shots is just a money mill.

I get my blood work done every 4 months at the local medical school department

of endocrinology CHEAP (just show up on thurs am, checkoff the tests you want

run and where you want the results sent) and order my meds from a couple of IOPs

like www.alldaychemist. com, syringes from www.getpinz. com, etc.

overall it's easier, cheaper, better than spending my time teaching an

" endocrinologist " about TRT, armidex, e2, etc