Re: What about meat

[Guest guest]

I'm not Suzanne, but I haven't touched ANY animal products for over 18 years and seem to be healthy. Haven't seen a doctor in about 15 years (with the exception of broken bones and blood!).

Shari

[Guest guest]

Good question. Man was not created to eat meat, firstly. Secondly, we are the only species that drinks milk throughout our lifes.. No other species drinks milk after being weined... ok, True health can be had without meat. People do it everyday.. If you choose to eat meat, make sure it is organic, It is better if eaten more to the raw side. There is no question that red meat is a concentrated source of many nutrients. Most importantly, it provides protein, iron, and zinc. But since protein is well supplied from a variety of plant foods, and deficiency is rare among vegetarians, the fact that meat supplies this nutrient is of little importance. Furthermore, while vegetarians have adequate protein intake, most Westerners get far too much. High protein, from meat in particular, may adversely affect bone health. Although red meat is also touted as a good source of well-absorbed iron, vegetarians seem to get

plenty of this nutrient,(you can make your own organic iron) since iron deficiency is not a common problem in the vegetarian population. And high iron intakes have been linked to increased risk for heart disease and possibly to increased risk for cancer. People who don't eat meat do need to give a bit of extra attention to zinc in their diets. Red meat is one of the better food sources of this nutrient, but vegetarians can get adequate zinc by consuming nuts, seeds, and legumes,. The fact is, plant foods can provide the same nutrients that are in red meat and they also provide some unique compounds. Both fiber and phytochemicals, which have numerous health benefits, are abundant in plant foods but are not found in meat. However, establishing that red meat isn't necessary for health and that it lacks a number of health-promoting factors isn't the same as saying that it may be detrimental to your health. Judith Alta

<list@...> wrote: Hi Suzi,What about meat? Especially red meat and eggs and the naturally saturated animal fats that are so important to building a healthy immune system, hormones and supporting the brain?This is a serious question, as I believe that true health cannot be had without all of the important nutrients available to us. Suzi List Owner health/ http://360./suziesgoats What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I agree, in a way. It is true that there are things in meat and non-vegitarian foods that are essential for optimum health, it is also true that those same constituents can be found in vegitarian sources. And without the added "crap" that comes with meat and such. Having said that, let me say that I strive toward a veggie diet. We eat very little meat or related foods. And I LOVE beef!!! I am a carnivore at heart. I love sirloin, sliced paper thin, marinated, and raw. Yes, I eat it raw when I eat it. My body cannot digest cooked beef well at all. But we only eat organic meat, and very seldom. And we can feel the difference in our systems when we do. We feel lethargic and cranky at times. But, having said that, let me say that this is my choice for myself. I in no way try to tell others how they should eat or what they should do. If they ask what

I think, that's another story. But we are all on our own paths, not always going the same way at the same time. I expect others to give me the same respect I give them. Peace, love, laughter If Wile E. Coyote had enough money to buy all that ACME crap, why didn't he just buy dinner? Judith Alta <list@...> wrote: Hi Suzi,What about meat? Especially red meat and eggs and the naturally saturated animal fats that are so important to building a healthy immune system, hormones and supporting the brain?This is a serious question, as I believe that true health cannot be had without all of the important nutrients available to us.Judith Alta and Oski . __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Amen <deuteronomy2929@...> wrote: I But we are all on our own paths, not always going the same way at the same time. I expect others to give me the same respect I give them. Suzi List Owner health/ http://360./suziesgoats What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Good question.

Man was not created to eat meat, firstly.

What is your data source on this? MY own understanding, from many books and science programs on PBS, is that the gut shrank and the brain grew when animal protein was added to the diet. My dentition tells me I was not evolved to need to strictly eat plant material.

Chimps even eat monkeys sometimes.

You ever notice the size of the gut on a gorilla? A horse? All plants, all the time, and look what they need to process it.

Hey, I have no problem with those who have found they feel better on a vegetarian diet. But that's not for everyone, and

I'm hoping this list is not one of those who tries to shame and belittle people who don't see things the same way. I was having fun here, and I don't want to feel like I can't be a member of this list because I eat meat and I'm not ashamed of it.

Ev

[Guest guest]

The average American overeats protein by 150% A DAY! Horrible for your kidneys not to mention leaching the calcium from your bones.

S

[Guest guest]

We do not have the proper enzymes to digest meat.

S

[Guest guest]

smooches,

go back to your room Guido!

S

[Guest guest]

Ev. can't tell you my source... I have tons of info on my computer and in files for years.. but if I had to start I would start with the Bible then our bodies, our system... then on from there.. Do the research.. even browse the message archives... No we do not shame you... You are where you need to be at this time of your life.... I am not totally vegetarian. My DH doesn't believe as me.. But we eat healthy... 1/2 of us more than the other 1/2 .. lol The best thing I can tell you is research. Not just one site but a dozen... Test the theory.. I do know many that no longer eat meat and are very healthy and do not take alot of supplements either. But I also know some that eat some meat and are also healthy.. Bottom line I guess is down the road with age. Suzi PS We're not animals and I would think if chimps were given the choice or had a choice they

would not eat monkeys. Sometime back we had a discussion regarding animals and humans.. and their systems and teeth, etc...somewhere in the archives. <autumn3scorpio@...> wrote: Good question. Man was not created to eat meat, firstly. What is your data source on this? MY own understanding, from many books and science programs on PBS, is that the gut shrank and the brain grew when animal protein was added to the diet. My dentition tells me I was not evolved to need to strictly eat plant material. Chimps even eat monkeys sometimes. You ever notice

the size of the gut on a gorilla? A horse? All plants, all the time, and look what they need to process it. Hey, I have no problem with those who have found they feel better on a vegetarian diet. But that's not for everyone, and I'm hoping this list is not one of those who tries to shame and belittle people who don't see things the same way. I was having fun here, and I don't want to feel like I can't be a member of this list because I eat meat and I'm not ashamed of it. Suzi List Owner health/ http://360./suziesgoats What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

yes ma'am. We have forgotten "moderation" on many things SuziSV <shavig@...> wrote: The average American overeats protein by 150% A DAY! Horrible for your kidneys not to mention leaching the calcium from your bones. S __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Where do you get your Vitamin B-12?

Judith Alta and Oski

Suzanne wrote:

Good question.

Man was not created to eat meat, firstly. Secondly, we are the

only species that drinks milk throughout our lifes.. No other species

drinks milk after being weined...

ok, True health can be had without meat. People do it

everyday.. If you choose to eat meat, make sure it is organic, It is

better if eaten more to the raw side.

There is no question that red meat is a concentrated source of

many nutrients. Most importantly, it provides protein, iron, and zinc. But

since protein is well supplied from a variety of plant foods, and

deficiency is rare among vegetarians, the fact that meat supplies this

nutrient is of little importance. Furthermore, while vegetarians have

adequate protein intake, most Westerners get far too much. High

protein, from meat in particular, may adversely affect bone health.

Although red meat is also touted as a good source of

well-absorbed iron, vegetarians seem to get plenty of this

nutrient,(you can make your own organic iron) since iron deficiency is

not a common problem in the vegetarian population. And high iron

intakes have been linked to increased risk for heart disease and

possibly to increased risk for cancer.

People who don't eat meat do need to give a bit of extra

attention to zinc in their diets. Red meat is one of the better food

sources of this nutrient, but vegetarians can get adequate zinc by

consuming nuts, seeds, and legumes,. The fact is, plant foods can

provide the same nutrients that are in red meat and they also provide

some unique compounds. Both fiber and phytochemicals, which have

numerous health benefits, are abundant in plant foods but are not found

in meat. However, establishing that red meat isn't necessary for health

and that it lacks a number of health-promoting factors isn't the same

as saying that it may be detrimental to your health.

Judith Alta <list@...> wrote:

Hi

Suzi,

What about meat? Especially red meat and eggs and the naturally

saturated animal fats that are so important to building a healthy

immune

system, hormones and supporting the brain?

This is a serious question, as I believe that true health cannot be had

without all of the important nutrients available to us.

Suzi

List Owner

health/

http://360./suziesgoats

What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have not yet been

discovered.

_

[Guest guest]

Please post links to your information.

Thanks,

Judith Alta and Oski

SV wrote:

We do not have the proper enzymes to digest

meat.

S

[Guest guest]

If we were not created to eat meat why is it the only way to get

Vitamin B-12, an essential nutrient?

Judith Alta and Oski

Suzanne wrote:

Good question.

Man was not created to eat meat, firstly. Secondly, we are the

only species that drinks milk throughout our lifes.. No other species

drinks milk after being weined...

ok, True health can be had without meat. People do it

everyday.. If you choose to eat meat, make sure it is organic, It is

better if eaten more to the raw side.

There is no question that red meat is a concentrated source of

many nutrients. Most importantly, it provides protein, iron, and zinc. But

since protein is well supplied from a variety of plant foods, and

deficiency is rare among vegetarians, the fact that meat supplies this

nutrient is of little importance. Furthermore, while vegetarians have

adequate protein intake, most Westerners get far too much. High

protein, from meat in particular, may adversely affect bone health.

Although red meat is also touted as a good source of

well-absorbed iron, vegetarians seem to get plenty of this

nutrient,(you can make your own organic iron) since iron deficiency is

not a common problem in the vegetarian population. And high iron

intakes have been linked to increased risk for heart disease and

possibly to increased risk for cancer.

People who don't eat meat do need to give a bit of extra

attention to zinc in their diets. Red meat is one of the better food

sources of this nutrient, but vegetarians can get adequate zinc by

consuming nuts, seeds, and legumes,. The fact is, plant foods can

provide the same nutrients that are in red meat and they also provide

some unique compounds. Both fiber and phytochemicals, which have

numerous health benefits, are abundant in plant foods but are not found

in meat. However, establishing that red meat isn't necessary for health

and that it lacks a number of health-promoting factors isn't the same

as saying that it may be detrimental to your health.

[Guest guest]

Oops. Sent too soon.

Many nutrients in plants, though they have the same names, are not

available to us as are nutrients from animal products.

Judith Alta and Oski

Suzanne wrote:

Good question.

Man was not created to eat meat, firstly. Secondly, we are the

only species that drinks milk throughout our lifes.. No other species

drinks milk after being weined...

ok, True health can be had without meat. People do it

everyday.. If you choose to eat meat, make sure it is organic, It is

better if eaten more to the raw side.

There is no question that red meat is a concentrated source of

many nutrients. Most importantly, it provides protein, iron, and zinc. But

since protein is well supplied from a variety of plant foods, and

deficiency is rare among vegetarians, the fact that meat supplies this

nutrient is of little importance. Furthermore, while vegetarians have

adequate protein intake, most Westerners get far too much. High

protein, from meat in particular, may adversely affect bone health.

Although red meat is also touted as a good source of

well-absorbed iron, vegetarians seem to get plenty of this

nutrient,(you can make your own organic iron) since iron deficiency is

not a common problem in the vegetarian population. And high iron

intakes have been linked to increased risk for heart disease and

possibly to increased risk for cancer.

People who don't eat meat do need to give a bit of extra

attention to zinc in their diets. Red meat is one of the better food

sources of this nutrient, but vegetarians can get adequate zinc by

consuming nuts, seeds, and legumes,. The fact is, plant foods can

provide the same nutrients that are in red meat and they also provide

some unique compounds. Both fiber and phytochemicals, which have

numerous health benefits, are abundant in plant foods but are not found

in meat. However, establishing that red meat isn't necessary for health

and that it lacks a number of health-promoting factors isn't the same

as saying that it may be detrimental to your health.

[Guest guest]

Good post, .

My favorite is rib eye, lightly cooked on each side.

When the Atkins diet book came out in the early 1970's I went on it.

By the end of the first week I was ready to call it quits. On Friday of

that week I said I would stick it out until Monday. After creaking

through the weekend I got up on Monday morning with a brand new mind

and body.

I have been on and off low carb eating ever since and while I'm on it I

feel so much better, both mentally and physically. So the big question

is -- Why don't I stay on it? -- Not even I can answer that one.

On a fixed income we can't afford organic, but we do buy from a meat

market that offers only meat that is free from artificial hormones and

antibiotics.

Judith Alta and Oski

wrote:

I agree, in a way.

It is true that there are things in meat and non-vegitarian

foods that are essential for optimum health, it is also true that those

same constituents can be found in vegitarian sources. And without the

added "crap" that comes with meat and such.

Having said that, let me say that I strive toward a veggie diet.

We eat very little meat or related foods. And I LOVE beef!!! I am a

carnivore at heart. I love sirloin, sliced paper thin, marinated, and

raw. Yes, I eat it raw when I eat it. My body cannot digest cooked beef

well at all.

But we only eat organic meat, and very seldom. And we can feel

the difference in our systems when we do. We feel lethargic and cranky

at times.

But, having said that, let me say that this is my choice for

myself. I in no way try to tell others how they should eat or what they

should do. If they ask what I think, that's another story.

But we are all on our own paths, not always going the same way

at the same time. I expect others to give me the same respect I give

them.

Peace, love, laughter

If

Wile E. Coyote had enough money to buy all that ACME crap, why didn't

he just buy dinner?

[Guest guest]

Please post links to this.

Judith Alta Kidder

SV wrote:

The average American overeats protein by 150%

A DAY! Horrible for your kidneys not to mention leaching the calcium

from your bones.

S

[Guest guest]

Here is an interesting link. Not terribly informative as he is pushing a

book, but it is another way of looking at diet.

http://www.mercola.com/2003/feb/26/metabolic_typing.htm

Judith Alta and Oski

[Guest guest]

Don't sweat it, Ev. We are not all raw foodists, vegitarians, vegans,

martians, etc. Some are passionate about their path, which is great.

But keep in mind that none of us, those I know well anyway, would

ever try to impose their beliefs on others. This list strongly

discourages such behaviour.

Be at peace here!

Peace, love, laughter

> Hey, I have no problem with those who have found they feel better

on a vegetarian diet. But that's not for everyone, and

> I'm hoping this list is not one of those who tries to shame and

belittle people who don't see things the same way. I was having fun

here, and I don't want to feel like I can't be a member of this list

because I eat meat and I'm not ashamed of it.

>

> Ev

[Guest guest]

Foodssuch as barley, malted syrup, sourdough bread, parsley, shitake mushrooms, tofu, and soybean paste, had some B-12 in them. A gold standard test for B-12 active bacteria did show indeed that arame, dulse, kelp, kombu and wakame had significant human active B-12. Other studies have shown that dulse did have a certain amount of B-12 analog per serving. Other researchers feel that it is possible that raw nori, not dried nori, is a source of active B-12. Judith Alta <list@...> wrote: Where do you get your Vitamin B-12? Suzi List Owner health/ http://360./suziesgoats What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

We've been studying Food Combining in the hopes of bettering our diets. According to most sources we've read, we do have such an enzyme, but it is inhibited when meats are combined with carbs. They are digested differently, and cancel each other's enzymes and processes out. Just my 2 cents. Not trying to start anything. Peace, love, laughter If your car could travel at the speed of light, would your headlights work?SV <shavig@...> wrote: We do not have the proper enzymes to digest meat. S . __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Judith, No we all can't buy or some can't even access organic We do the best we can with what we have and what feels right for us. Suzi PS Your body is craving something that apparently is not in the Atkins diet.Judith Alta <list@...> wrote: Good post, .My favorite is rib eye, lightly cooked on each side.When the Atkins diet book came out in the early 1970's I went on it.By the end of the first week I was ready to call it quits. On Friday of that week I said I would stick it out until Monday. After creaking through the weekend I got up on Monday morning with a brand new mind and body. I have been on and off low carb eating ever since and while I'm on it I feel so much better, both mentally and physically. So the big question is -- Why don't I

stay on it? -- Not even I can answer that one.On a fixed income we can't afford organic, but we do buy from a meat market that offers only meat that is free from artificial hormones and antibiotics. Suzi List Owner health/ http://360./suziesgoats What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

There are a couple articles in the files on enzymesJudith Alta <list@...> wrote: Please post links to this.Judith Alta KidderSV wrote: The average American overeats protein by 150% A DAY! Horrible for your kidneys not to mention leaching the calcium from your bones. S Suzi List Owner health/ http://360./suziesgoats What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Judith wrote: "Please post links to this." This is in questioning my reasoning for eating meat. Not once have I asked you to prove to me that we need to eat meat. I am like Suzanne in that I have been doing this for so long and have read so much I cannot give you exact links, but I would suggest you read a couple of books I am going to suggest.

The first being "Diet for a New America" by Robbins and the other is "Reclaiming Our Health" by Robbins. This man has been at it much longer than I have and can answer your questions.

Next you can go to http://www.rawschool.com/nutrientdeficiency.htm and read up on the myth about B12 and you can also bend your mind and read that some of us don't believe in germs either! This all comes from Natural Hygiene that has been around for a couple hundred years. You can read up on all this at www.rawschool.com Nora has condensed a lot of information into readable amounts.

This list has become quite tediuos for me and if I need to site where all my information comes from I will stop posting and probably leave the list. I do not have time to prove myself everyday with every post.

I just know that a living thing does not have to die for me to eat.

Shari

[Guest guest]

Ever notice an animal eating?? In the wild?? They don't combine meat with veggies or fruits... <deuteronomy2929@...> wrote: We've been studying Food Combining in the hopes of bettering our diets. According to most sources we've read, we do have such an enzyme, but it is inhibited when meats are combined with carbs. They are digested differently,

and cancel each other's enzymes and processes out. Just my 2 cents. Not trying to start anything. Peace, love, laughter Suzi List Owner health/ http://360./suziesgoats What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Shari, You must realize that many in our group are not where you are and are only asking so as to research further for themselves both sides of an issue. If someone was to write that by eating a certain way would allow them to live forever.. .I WOULD WANT PROOF OR A LINK... (i know that is an extreme example) You are like me in that we have so much info over the years... and that in living certain ways (via experiment or experience) we know what works (at least for us).. and sometimes don't have a url to post. I know one time I had a link for info and the link was no longer in service... Anyway... just remember that all of us are still learning (we'll all always be learning) and on many different pathways. Yes this list does sometimes get overwhelming... but that is a good thing as people are looking at their lives and their health and taking steps to improve it. Isn't that

why we're here? If you can help just one person...........isn't your life better for it?? SuziSV <shavig@...> wrote: Judith wrote: "Please post links to this." This is in questioning my reasoning for eating meat. Not once have I asked you to prove to me that we need to eat meat. I am like Suzanne in that I have been doing this for so long and have read so much I cannot give you exact links, but I would suggest you read a couple of books I am going to suggest. The first being "Diet for a New America" by Robbins and the other is

"Reclaiming Our Health" by Robbins. This man has been at it much longer than I have and can answer your questions. Next you can go to http://www.rawschool.com/nutrientdeficiency.htm and read up on the myth about B12 and you can also bend your mind and read that some of us don't believe in germs either! This all comes from Natural Hygiene that has been around for a couple hundred years. You can read up on all this at www.rawschool.com Nora has condensed a lot of information into readable amounts. This list has become quite tediuos for me and if I need to site where all my information comes from I will stop posting and probably leave the list. I do not have time to

prove myself everyday with every post. I just know that a living thing does not have to die for me to eat. Shari __________________________________________________