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Trusting Doctors

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Sharon,

I think one of the points you are missing is that often times we should not accept what our doctors tell us as the gospel. I'm not saying that we should go against what our doctors tell us to do, but I do think it is vital to get enough information to ask intelligent questions of your doctors. For me, after some of my other docs began saying I needed a liver biopsy in August (my GI was insisting there was nothing wrong with my liver, despite liver enzymes as high as 700+), the GI finally did a liver biopsy the end of December. On Jan 6, 03, I was told that there was just this little thing wrong with my liver - AIH, but not to worry because it typically responds well to treatment with prednisone or imuran. My biopsy revealed stage 3 fibrosis, so it seems the damage was moving right along in my liver that 'had nothing wrong with it'. The GI told me he didn't even want me to start treatment until I'd completely healed from hernia surgery I had in December. Thank goodness he consulted with my rheumy and she said I absolutely could not wait to begin treatment. I saw the GI for a repeat visit the end of January. I had been on 20 mg prednisone daily for 2 1/2 weeks. My liver enzymes were much improved. The GI told me that he didn't need to see me or my liver enzymes for 6 months. He said that he would taper my prednisone down to 10 mg daily over the next month. However, since I have multiple autoimmune diseases, he'd let the rheumy make the final decision on the dose of prednisone. Now, remember, he told me he didn't need to see me or my liver enzymes for six months, yet he was planning to cut my prednisone in half after only being on it for 2 1/2 weeks and having one set of improved labs. He wasn't even going to bother checking my liver enzymes again until about 5 months after cutting the dose of the prednisone in half. After talking with people in the group, that set up red flags for me. Luckily, my rheumy proceeded with more caution in lowering the dose. However, I have been down to 10 mg prednisone daily since Apr 5th and my liver enzymes have ranged from 3 to 10+ times normal since that time. When my liver enzymes were about 3-4 times normal on Apr 11th, I faxed the labs to my rheumy. She called and said she wanted them faxed to the GI. They were faxed to the GI and I never heard a word from him or from my rheumy. It was then that I decided I needed to see a different doctor and had my pcp refer me to a hepatologist at Vanderbilt in Nashville, TN.

My whole point to this is that if not for what I've learned from the group and the internet, I would have probably just ignored the increase in my liver enzymes as the prednisone was decreased. I mean, geez, my GI obviously is not concerned about it. He basically acts like AIH is really nothing to be concerned about - no big deal at all.

I read the following paragraph out of "The Liver Disorder Source Book" by Dr. J. Worman, M.D. today.

'Over the long term, most patients with autoimmune hepatitis will develop cirrhosis despite having a response to treatment. Nonetheless, treatment is essential as the progression of disease can be rapid and dramatic without it. Treatment will significantly slow the progression to cirrhosis. Even patients who already have cirrhosis at presentation should be treated because stopping the inflammation will halt ongoing liver damage and the rapid development of complications or liver failure. For patients with chronic autoimmune hepatitis who develop complications of cirrhosis or liver failure, liver transplantation is an effective procedure. The disease almost never recurs in the transplanted liver, possibly due in part to powerful drugs used to suppress the immune system to prevent transplant rejection.'

Too many times, patients sit back and put 100% trust in their doctors and that's not always a good thing. Doctors are human and they spend only a very minutes with you during a visit. They often overlook things and make mistakes. It is up to the patient to educate themselves enough to know whether they should trust the doctor completely or find a different doctor with more experience.

W

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Dear W.,

I appreciate your response and remember that I was one of the

groups members who encouraged you to get a second opinion, but that

was because you were questioning your treatment under your first

doctor. I also was seen at first for 6 months by a gastro who didn't

do a biopsy or begin any treatment, after which I made a change in

physicians, got my biopsy, and began treatment for AIH in 1986.

The problem here is that these members are 100% satisfied with

their treatment, and proudly shared their improved LFTs and biopsies

with the group, along with their treatment regimens. That is where I

don't believe other members should challenge them. We are not M.D.s

or research scientists; we shouldn't have to provide tangible

scientific evidence for treatment that is approved and prescribed by

our physicians. Maybe some of their doctors are involved in research

or have discovered new treatments that later will benefit others of

you.

Sharon G.

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Dear W.,

I appreciate your response and remember that I was one of the

groups members who encouraged you to get a second opinion, but that

was because you were questioning your treatment under your first

doctor. I also was seen at first for 6 months by a gastro who didn't

do a biopsy or begin any treatment, after which I made a change in

physicians, got my biopsy, and began treatment for AIH in 1986.

The problem here is that these members are 100% satisfied with

their treatment, and proudly shared their improved LFTs and biopsies

with the group, along with their treatment regimens. That is where I

don't believe other members should challenge them. We are not M.D.s

or research scientists; we shouldn't have to provide tangible

scientific evidence for treatment that is approved and prescribed by

our physicians. Maybe some of their doctors are involved in research

or have discovered new treatments that later will benefit others of

you.

Sharon G.

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  • 4 years later...

I have NO faith or trust in doctors. I will do anything to avoid contact with them. The exception was last year when I got pnumonia and had to go to the hospital or die. So, yes for emergencys. For many years I have had a large freckle on my leg above the knee. It has just been there until recently when it began to change shape and color and peel. Is it malignant skin cancer? I don't know but I am not going to go to a doctor to find out. They immediately do a skin biopsie which if it is cancer spreads the cancer rapidly thru your body. No thank you as I have had two friends die from exactly this. What I am doin is ordering some black salve and putting that on this area. If it is cancer, I will know immediately and will treat it my way. If it is not cancer, there will be no reaction and that will be that. Doctors are great in emergencies , say

if you broke your leg or like Gayla, needed a hip surgery...that certainly helped her. But after that I believe that you can fix yourself. Anne TX

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Don't let the FDA hear you say that. They will lock you away for life

for practicing medicine without a license.

The one place where health care shines in this country is in trauma

care. We are better at putting the broken bits and pieces back together

again, and making them work, than any other country on the planet.

Judith Alta and Oski

Anne Bird wrote:

I have NO faith or trust in doctors. I will do anything to

avoid contact with them. The exception was last year when I got

pnumonia and had to go to the hospital or die. So, yes for emergencys.

For many years I have had a large freckle on my leg above the

knee. It has just been there until recently when it began to change

shape and color and peel. Is it malignant skin cancer? I don't know

but I am not going to go to a doctor to find out. They immediately do

a skin biopsie which if it is cancer spreads the cancer rapidly thru

your body. No thank you as I have had two friends die from exactly

this. What I am doin is ordering some black salve and putting that on

this area. If it is cancer, I will know immediately and will treat it

my way. If it is not cancer, there will be no reaction and that will

be that.

Doctors are great in emergencies , say if you broke your leg or

like Gayla, needed a hip surgery...that certainly helped her. But

after that I believe that you can fix yourself.

Anne

TX

__._,_.

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Judith Alta <list@...> wrote: Don't let the FDA hear you say that. They will lock you away for life for practicing medicine without a license. ## I don't think they will bother with little old me. They might be interested soon in Hawk as a group - as we are loosing our freedoms right and left and fast. It will be a while but eventually as things get worse I wouldn;'t be surprised .The one place where health care shines in this country is in trauma care. We are better at putting the broken bits and pieces back

together again, and making them work, than any other country on the planet. ##You are right about that, Judith. AnneJudith Alta and OskiAnne Bird wrote: I have NO faith or trust in doctors. I will do anything to avoid contact with them. The exception was last year when I got pnumonia and had to go to the hospital or die. So, yes for emergencys. For many years I have had a large freckle on my leg above the knee. It has just been there until recently when it began to change shape and color and peel. Is it malignant skin cancer? I don't know but I am not going to go to a doctor to find out. They immediately do a skin biopsie which if it is cancer spreads the cancer rapidly thru your body. No thank you as I have had two friends die from exactly this. What I am

doin is ordering some black salve and putting that on this area. If it is cancer, I will know immediately and will treat it my way. If it is not cancer, there will be no reaction and that will be that. Doctors are great in emergencies , say if you broke your leg or like Gayla, needed a hip surgery...that certainly helped her. But after that I believe that you can fix yourself. Anne TX__._,_.

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Anne, They already know about alot of us... The govt monitors these groups... Especially when "key" words appear. Notice when mail slows down... My DIL just had this happen with her inbox.. outgoing was fine but wasn't getting mail... She had been on the net the week before looking at Google Earth.. satellite imagery... and decided to go look at Area 51... cant'see anything but that was all it took... Her mail didn't come for over a week.. then suddenly she started getting everything (all at once) SuziAnne Bird <irishfox99@...> wrote: Judith Alta <list@...> wrote: Don't let the FDA hear you say that. They will lock you away for life for practicing medicine without a license. ## I don't think they will bother with little old me. They might be interested soon in Hawk as a group - as we are loosing our freedoms right and left and fast. It will be a while but eventually as things get worse I wouldn;'t be surprised . __________________________________________________

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Anne,

Have you tried the herb Bloodroot?

Also, I read that the application of banana peal works in these kind of things.

Rena

Trusting Doctors

I have NO faith or trust in doctors. I will do anything to avoid contact with them. The exception was last year when I got pnumonia and had to go to the hospital or die. So, yes for emergencys.

For many years I have had a large freckle on my leg above the knee. It has just been there until recently when it began to change shape and color and peel. Is it malignant skin cancer? I don't know but I am not going to go to a doctor to find out. They immediately do a skin biopsie which if it is cancer spreads the cancer rapidly thru your body. No thank you as I have had two friends die from exactly this. What I am doin is ordering some black salve and putting that on this area. If it is cancer, I will know immediately and will treat it my way. If it is not cancer, there will be no reaction and that will be that.

Doctors are great in emergencies , say if you broke your leg or like Gayla, needed a hip surgery...that certainly helped her. But after that I believe that you can fix yourself.

Anne

TX

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Yes, Anne, it sounds suspicious and if it

is melanoma it may have already spread to your lymph nodes. The two

lesser cancers (ones that do not readily metastasize) are squamous cell and

basal cell. The only way to tell for sure is to allow the biopsies.

So if you are going in blindly, I would treat it aggressively with herbal

methods both externally and internally. That means salve and Essiac.

If it were me, I would want as much of it cut out as possible with a healthy

margin of tissue around it, then I would treat with natural meds; but that is

just my way.

Good luck!

Janet

From: health [mailto:health ] On Behalf Of Anne Bird

Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007

5:03 PM

health

Subject:

Trusting Doctors

I have NO faith or trust in doctors. I will do anything to avoid

contact with them. The exception was last year when I got pnumonia and

had to go to the hospital or die. So, yes for emergencys.

For many years I have had a large freckle on my leg above the

knee. It has just been there until recently when it began to change shape

and color and peel. Is it malignant skin cancer? I don't know but I

am not going to go to a doctor to find out. They immediately do a skin

biopsie which if it is cancer spreads the cancer rapidly thru your body.

No thank you as I have had two friends die from exactly this. What I am

doin is ordering some black salve and putting that on this area. If it is

cancer, I will know immediately and will treat it my way. If it is not

cancer, there will be no reaction and that will be that.

Doctors are great in emergencies , say if you broke your leg or like

Gayla, needed a hip surgery...that certainly helped her. But after that I

believe that you can fix yourself.

Anne

TX

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