Re: Supplements, was Weight loss and Vitamix

[Guest guest]

I completely agree with you, SJ. I also grow my own organics for that very

reason-trying to avoid the garbage soil and contaminated water! Sad thing is,

many of the supplements are sourced synthetically or with materials sourced from

the same poor growing conditions, so their effectiveness is in even more doubt!

What part of Maine are you in? I am planning to head to Maine late this

summer-have always wanted to explore-taking my motorhome and just plan on

landing where ever the mood strikes, lol.

>

> There are a couple of reasons I know of for using supplemental products.

>

> If you are not certain of your foodstuffs and their growers, it is

> likely that they were commercially grown. Land used for decades (and

> longer) becomes depleted of nutrient content and therefore has no

> nutrient to convey to plant material. Generally, so long as the plant

> grows well enough to sell a product, this fact is ignored--only if the

> plant dies or produces poorly or slowly is money wasted on fertilizers

> and other soil amendments are almost never considered in a commercial

> situation. Much of our commercially-available food supply is produced

> on just such land, therefor is apt to be deficient in many if not all

> the good things we think we're getting. The defense on this one is to

> either grow your own, organically, so that the soil is cared for/fed,

> yielding a healthy soil with nutrient material to make available for

> transfer to plant material, or to know well your grower and his/her

> practices and reliability.

>

> The " organic " foods " certified " by the USDA are not even close to what

> we've actually known to be organic over the past 50 years or so....if

> you are curious about what they consider to be organic and to be organic

> practices and growing conditions, go to their website and you will see a

> giant disconnect there....the point, rather, seems to have been to

> provide a way for agribusiness to cut into the existing (actual) organic

> market. If you must purchase foods when you don't know the grower, find

> a certification agent that you can trust (takes a fair amount of

> research, I know) and then stick with it. The main reason I moved 25

> years ago to where I am now was for the active organic farming and

> gardening activity, with an excellent certification program, and I've

> never regretted that.

>

> Other than sick soil, problems that prevent our foodstuffs from being as

> nutritious as we'd like to think are pesticides and herbicides, some of

> which interfere with the processes by which materials are transferred to

> plants, air pollution with some of the same problems, contaminated water

> supplies (a growing problem), and the practice of breeding for and

> harvesting unripe plant material so that it can withstand the trip to

> market while it " ripens " .

>

> As to tablets/capsules not dissolving.....that's another big mixed-up

> mess, with some things not even designed to dissolve in the stomach but

> in the lower parts of the tract, each of which has it's own digestive

> " aids " , and any (or all) of which may well be out of kilter due to any

> number of digestive/nutrient causes...or other unrelated causes such as

> physical (even a hernia can play havoc depending on the location and

> degree of/frequency of incarceration) or environmental. So it's all tricky.

>

> So there are a few of the issues very sketchily outlined. And having

> said all that, I reared 3 kiddos and have always maintained myself

> without supplements of any kind, including through pregnancies, etc.

> But I've been blessed to be able to raise my own food on my own terms.

> If I'd not, am not sure what the path should have been....just glad we

> didn't have to go there. Each of us has to work it out ourselves.

>

> SJ, in snowy Maine

>

[Guest guest]

Healthy soil, soil that has not been subjected to " shock and awe "

applications of herbicides and pesticides and burning chemical fertilizers

for years, is host to millions of micro-organisms per cubic foot. And it's

the micro-organisms that process organic material and make the nutrient

materials available for uptake into food crops. That's one of the primary

reasons factory-farmed food crops are impoverished of so much of their

nutritive value: the soil has been sterilized and burned to a crisp.

If you're eating organic, from farms that protect and nourish the living

soil, your produce may be an excellent source of all the nutrition you need.

Otherwise, informed, wise supplementation may be a good idea, depending on

your own unique health profile. And, by the way, cheapo vitamins that are

merely compounds of dead chemicals are pretty much a waste of money and a

waste of good sewer space. Our bodies are NOT machines; they are living

beings and need to be feed living food (and possibly living supplements.)

Neil on the left coast in Calif.

Supplements, was Weight loss and Vitamix

There are a couple of reasons I know of for using supplemental products.

If you are not certain of your foodstuffs and their growers, it is

likely that they were commercially grown. Land used for decades (and

longer) becomes depleted of nutrient content and therefore has no

nutrient to convey to plant material. Generally, so long as the plant

grows well enough to sell a product, this fact is ignored--only if the

plant dies or produces poorly or slowly is money wasted on fertilizers

and other soil amendments are almost never considered in a commercial

situation. Much of our commercially-available food supply is produced

on just such land, therefor is apt to be deficient in many if not all

the good things we think we're getting. The defense on this one is to

either grow your own, organically, so that the soil is cared for/fed,

yielding a healthy soil with nutrient material to make available for

transfer to plant material, or to know well your grower and his/her

practices and reliability.

The " organic " foods " certified " by the USDA are not even close to what

we've actually known to be organic over the past 50 years or so....if

you are curious about what they consider to be organic and to be organic

practices and growing conditions, go to their website and you will see a

giant disconnect there....the point, rather, seems to have been to

provide a way for agribusiness to cut into the existing (actual) organic

market. If you must purchase foods when you don't know the grower, find

a certification agent that you can trust (takes a fair amount of

research, I know) and then stick with it. The main reason I moved 25

years ago to where I am now was for the active organic farming and

gardening activity, with an excellent certification program, and I've

never regretted that.

Other than sick soil, problems that prevent our foodstuffs from being as

nutritious as we'd like to think are pesticides and herbicides, some of

which interfere with the processes by which materials are transferred to

plants, air pollution with some of the same problems, contaminated water

supplies (a growing problem), and the practice of breeding for and

harvesting unripe plant material so that it can withstand the trip to

market while it " ripens " .

As to tablets/capsules not dissolving.....that's another big mixed-up

mess, with some things not even designed to dissolve in the stomach but

in the lower parts of the tract, each of which has it's own digestive

" aids " , and any (or all) of which may well be out of kilter due to any

number of digestive/nutrient causes...or other unrelated causes such as

physical (even a hernia can play havoc depending on the location and

degree of/frequency of incarceration) or environmental. So it's all tricky.

So there are a few of the issues very sketchily outlined. And having

said all that, I reared 3 kiddos and have always maintained myself

without supplements of any kind, including through pregnancies, etc.

But I've been blessed to be able to raise my own food on my own terms.

If I'd not, am not sure what the path should have been....just glad we

didn't have to go there. Each of us has to work it out ourselves.

SJ, in snowy Maine

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I agree with what everyone has said. In an ideal world we would all be eating fresh, organic food grown in living soil (healthy soil is TEAMING with healthy, living bacteria and is full of trace minerals (not just the minerals that come from chemical fertilizers).But when we can't, sometimes we have to supplement. HOWEVER, food sources of nutrients are always more bioavailable than store bought sources.Hopefully supplementation is done with research, GOOD sources of supplements, and only for a season…Speaking of good sources… did you know that bone broths have a lot of collagen (a VERY expensive supplement) and the most bioavailable forms of minerals:http://balancedbites.com/2011/04/easy-recipe-mineral-rich-bone-broth.htmlhttp://nourishedkitchen.com/the-benefits-of-bone-broth/

Blessings,Lea Ann SavageSatellite Beach, FL(321) 773-7088 (home)(321-961-9219 (cell)))><'>www.VitamixLady.comwww..com<))><

On Jan 6, 2012, at 6:26 PM, Neil Rhoads wrote:

Healthy soil, soil that has not been subjected to "shock and awe"

applications of herbicides and pesticides and burning chemical fertilizers

for years, is host to millions of micro-organisms per cubic foot. And it's

the micro-organisms that process organic material and make the nutrient

materials available for uptake into food crops. That's one of the primary

reasons factory-farmed food crops are impoverished of so much of their

nutritive value: the soil has been sterilized and burned to a crisp.

If you're eating organic, from farms that protect and nourish the living

soil, your produce may be an excellent source of all the nutrition you need.

Otherwise, informed, wise supplementation may be a good idea, depending on

your own unique health profile. And, by the way, cheapo vitamins that are

merely compounds of dead chemicals are pretty much a waste of money and a

waste of good sewer space. Our bodies are NOT machines; they are living

beings and need to be feed living food (and possibly living supplements.)

Neil on the left coast in Calif.

Supplements, was Weight loss and Vitamix

There are a couple of reasons I know of for using supplemental products.

If you are not certain of your foodstuffs and their growers, it is

likely that they were commercially grown. Land used for decades (and

longer) becomes depleted of nutrient content and therefore has no

nutrient to convey to plant material. Generally, so long as the plant

grows well enough to sell a product, this fact is ignored--only if the

plant dies or produces poorly or slowly is money wasted on fertilizers

and other soil amendments are almost never considered in a commercial

situation. Much of our commercially-available food supply is produced

on just such land, therefor is apt to be deficient in many if not all

the good things we think we're getting. The defense on this one is to

either grow your own, organically, so that the soil is cared for/fed,

yielding a healthy soil with nutrient material to make available for

transfer to plant material, or to know well your grower and his/her

practices and reliability.

The "organic" foods "certified" by the USDA are not even close to what

we've actually known to be organic over the past 50 years or so....if

you are curious about what they consider to be organic and to be organic

practices and growing conditions, go to their website and you will see a

giant disconnect there....the point, rather, seems to have been to

provide a way for agribusiness to cut into the existing (actual) organic

market. If you must purchase foods when you don't know the grower, find

a certification agent that you can trust (takes a fair amount of

research, I know) and then stick with it. The main reason I moved 25

years ago to where I am now was for the active organic farming and

gardening activity, with an excellent certification program, and I've

never regretted that.

Other than sick soil, problems that prevent our foodstuffs from being as

nutritious as we'd like to think are pesticides and herbicides, some of

which interfere with the processes by which materials are transferred to

plants, air pollution with some of the same problems, contaminated water

supplies (a growing problem), and the practice of breeding for and

harvesting unripe plant material so that it can withstand the trip to

market while it "ripens".

As to tablets/capsules not dissolving.....that's another big mixed-up

mess, with some things not even designed to dissolve in the stomach but

in the lower parts of the tract, each of which has it's own digestive

"aids", and any (or all) of which may well be out of kilter due to any

number of digestive/nutrient causes...or other unrelated causes such as

physical (even a hernia can play havoc depending on the location and

degree of/frequency of incarceration) or environmental. So it's all tricky.

So there are a few of the issues very sketchily outlined. And having

said all that, I reared 3 kiddos and have always maintained myself

without supplements of any kind, including through pregnancies, etc.

But I've been blessed to be able to raise my own food on my own terms.

If I'd not, am not sure what the path should have been....just glad we

didn't have to go there. Each of us has to work it out ourselves.

SJ, in snowy Maine

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Can someone direct me to an independent study that states organic foods are vastly superior to non organic. I searched " is organic food better for you " and most of what I read is that organic foods are mostly only marginally better and pesticides as being the primary benefit but careful washing reduces much of that threat. Tom From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lea Ann SavageSent: Friday, January 06, 2012 7:33 PM Subject: Re: Supplements, was Weight loss and Vitamix I agree with what everyone has said. In an ideal world we would all be eating fresh, organic food grown in living soil (healthy soil is TEAMING with healthy, living bacteria and is full of trace minerals (not just the minerals that come from chemical fertilizers). But when we can't, sometimes we have to supplement. HOWEVER, food sources of nutrients are always more bioavailable than store bought sources. Hopefully supplementation is done with research, GOOD sources of supplements, and only for a season… Speaking of good sources… did you know that bone broths have a lot of collagen (a VERY expensive supplement) and the most bioavailable forms of minerals:http://balancedbites.com/2011/04/easy-recipe-mineral-rich-bone-broth.htmlhttp://nourishedkitchen.com/the-benefits-of-bone-broth/ Blessings,Lea Ann SavageSatellite Beach, FL(321) 773-7088 (home)(321-961-9219 (cell)))><'>www.VitamixLady.comwww..com<))>< On Jan 6, 2012, at 6:26 PM, Neil Rhoads wrote: Healthy soil, soil that has not been subjected to " shock and awe " applications of herbicides and pesticides and burning chemical fertilizersfor years, is host to millions of micro-organisms per cubic foot. And it'sthe micro-organisms that process organic material and make the nutrientmaterials available for uptake into food crops. That's one of the primaryreasons factory-farmed food crops are impoverished of so much of theirnutritive value: the soil has been sterilized and burned to a crisp.If you're eating organic, from farms that protect and nourish the livingsoil, your produce may be an excellent source of all the nutrition you need.Otherwise, informed, wise supplementation may be a good idea, depending onyour own unique health profile. And, by the way, cheapo vitamins that aremerely compounds of dead chemicals are pretty much a waste of money and awaste of good sewer space. Our bodies are NOT machines; they are livingbeings and need to be feed living food (and possibly living supplements.)Neil on the left coast in Calif.-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of sjcSent: Friday, January 06, 2012 11:59 AM Subject: Supplements, was Weight loss and VitamixThere are a couple of reasons I know of for using supplemental products.If you are not certain of your foodstuffs and their growers, it is likely that they were commercially grown. Land used for decades (and longer) becomes depleted of nutrient content and therefore has no nutrient to convey to plant material. Generally, so long as the plant grows well enough to sell a product, this fact is ignored--only if the plant dies or produces poorly or slowly is money wasted on fertilizers and other soil amendments are almost never considered in a commercial situation. Much of our commercially-available food supply is produced on just such land, therefor is apt to be deficient in many if not all the good things we think we're getting. The defense on this one is to either grow your own, organically, so that the soil is cared for/fed, yielding a healthy soil with nutrient material to make available for transfer to plant material, or to know well your grower and his/her practices and reliability.The " organic " foods " certified " by the USDA are not even close to what we've actually known to be organic over the past 50 years or so....if you are curious about what they consider to be organic and to be organic practices and growing conditions, go to their website and you will see a giant disconnect there....the point, rather, seems to have been to provide a way for agribusiness to cut into the existing (actual) organic market. If you must purchase foods when you don't know the grower, find a certification agent that you can trust (takes a fair amount of research, I know) and then stick with it. The main reason I moved 25 years ago to where I am now was for the active organic farming and gardening activity, with an excellent certification program, and I've never regretted that.Other than sick soil, problems that prevent our foodstuffs from being as nutritious as we'd like to think are pesticides and herbicides, some of which interfere with the processes by which materials are transferred to plants, air pollution with some of the same problems, contaminated water supplies (a growing problem), and the practice of breeding for and harvesting unripe plant material so that it can withstand the trip to market while it " ripens " .As to tablets/capsules not dissolving.....that's another big mixed-up mess, with some things not even designed to dissolve in the stomach but in the lower parts of the tract, each of which has it's own digestive " aids " , and any (or all) of which may well be out of kilter due to any number of digestive/nutrient causes...or other unrelated causes such as physical (even a hernia can play havoc depending on the location and degree of/frequency of incarceration) or environmental. So it's all tricky.So there are a few of the issues very sketchily outlined. And having said all that, I reared 3 kiddos and have always maintained myself without supplements of any kind, including through pregnancies, etc. But I've been blessed to be able to raise my own food on my own terms. If I'd not, am not sure what the path should have been....just glad we didn't have to go there. Each of us has to work it out ourselves.SJ, in snowy Maine------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Tom,

One of my favorite websites, and the largest one I know of, is Dr. ph

Mercola's site: www.mercola.com.

Dr. Mercola's medical certification is a DO (Doctor of Osteopathy, similar to an

MD degree), and he has been working in the alternative medicine field (sometimes

known as " complementary and alternative medicine " or CAM) for a long time. He is

one of the most well-known and respected doctors in the CAM field. His website,

which has been in existence since the mid-1990's), contains thousands and

thousands of pages of articles, which he offers to the public for free (no

subscription is required). His site has a very good search engine (search field

at the top of every page). All of his articles contain references to studies

conducted all around the world. In fact, many of his articles in recent years

are direct responses to studies that he comes across or ones that get a lot of

mainstream press attention (some of these studies are deeply flawed, some are

only slightly flawed, and some are well designed). He has a comment forum for

every article.

Some of the readers in the mercola.com discussion forum have criticized the fact

that Dr. Mercola sells supplements under his own name. He says that in trying to

find effective supplements in years past for his sometimes very sick patients at

his clinic (located near Chicago, IL, and open for about 25 years), he often had

trouble locating high-quality supplements to recommend to his patients. So, over

the years, he and his staff have worked with the best manufacturers they could

find to make sure that he could provide high-quality supplements to his patients

and readers of his site. I do use some of his supplements, as well as

supplements from other sources.

So, I recommend that you go to Dr. Mercola's site, and try entering different

search strings that return the desired search results. For example, enter

" organic foods benefits " or something similar. You can also search his site for

specific health conditions.

BTW, careful washing of conventionally grown produce does not always reduce the

pesticide load. I have read that some plants take up pesticides internally into

the plant tissues. Thus, washing the food does not necessarily remove the

pesticide threat. Also, more and more conventionally grown food plants are

genetically modified organisms (GMO), which are potentially very dangerous to

humans, livestock, and the hundreds of thousands of wildlife and plant species

on Planet Earth.

There are a number of good websites you can visit on this subject, such as the

Environmental Working Group's site (www.ewg.org) and the Organic Consumers

Association's site (www.organicconsumers.org). To locate sources of organic and

local food in your area, go to Local Harvest's site (www.localharvest.org).

These three websites are all widely read and well respected.

Hope this helps,

Lynn G

>

> Can someone direct me to an independent study that states organic foods are

> vastly superior to non organic. I searched " is organic food better for you "

> and most of what I read is that organic foods are mostly only marginally

> better and pesticides as being the primary benefit but careful washing

> reduces much of that threat.

>

>

>

> Tom

[Guest guest]

Tom,

Actually, the Environmental Working Group and the Organic Consumers Association

are NOT agriculture industry trade organizations. These two organizations, and

there are others, were founded by citizens who are independent of industry and

government organizations (such as USDA and state agricultural agencies). These

people are sick of the lies and half-truths perpetrated by Big Agriculture

industry and the U.S. Federal government. These people (some are scientists,

nutritionists, and professionals in the medical field) are knowledgeable about

the politics and science of food production, and want to be able to inform, via

the Internet, an increasingly nervous public (meaning consumers of food, i.e.,

all of us) about the growing threat to the health of everyone. The EWG and the

OCA are not selling any products. They are non-profit organizations who seek to

inform the public, and lobby and educate the U.S. Congress about what they find

are dangers to the American public. The EWG and OCA pay careful attention to

studies and reports coming from independent researchers around the world, and

also those coming from agencies like USDA, which has always conducted its own

research studies. Unfortunately, USDA is heavily influenced by manufacturers of

pesticides/herbicides and GMO seeds (Monsanto, Dow, Dupont, etc.)

So I urge you to visit these sites, and others you can find, about the sorry

state of big-business agriculture, and read up on the founders of these websites

and what they have to say. Please bring an open mind, and see what you can

learn.

Lynn G

> >

> > Can someone direct me to an independent study that states organic foods

> are

> > vastly superior to non organic. I searched " is organic food better for

> you "

> > and most of what I read is that organic foods are mostly only marginally

> > better and pesticides as being the primary benefit but careful washing

> > reduces much of that threat.

> >

> >

> >

> > Tom

>

[Guest guest]

Tom, I used to be quite skeptical about organic stuff too, until commercial

stuff started making me very ill indeed. (it took me years to realize it WAS

that which was making me sick) Two reasons to go organic: First, MOST seeds

for commercially grown are genetically modified-meaning they contain the DNA of

other species, which really increases the risk of allergies and contaminants.

Second, commercially grown is likely to be force grown with hormones, growth

stimulants, etc., meaning the produce had no time to fully develop its

nutritional profile and nutrients. Third, commercially grown seeds are often

treated with spliced in pesticides, herbicides, and growth hormones, none of

which can be washed off or removed. Fourth, vast commercially grown farms are

often filthy, with workers using the bathroom in the fields, and less than

desirable conditions all the way around. Fifth, even the crops that are not

spliced with built in stuff, often spray with chemicals that are banned in other

countries. By design, these sprays are designed to stick to the fruits/veggies

during rain, so they do not wash off easily. For me personally, the GMO aspect

is more disturbing than the spray issue-many consumers are not aware that the

ear of corn they are eating has been spliced with DNA of other plants, rodents

and insects, or that the nice looking head of lettuce they buy may contain the

DNA of scorpions-scary stuff, and again-makes developing allergies and food

sensitivities far more likely. I think food should be unadulterated, unaltered,

and as nature intended it to be, so that is why I am now a firm believer in

organic only-enough so that I learned to garden myself and grow my own, despite

the fact that my yard is the size of a postage stamp and I had never grown so

much as a cactus-I now grow ALL of my own food, even in my very tiny space.

> >

> > Can someone direct me to an independent study that states organic foods are

> > vastly superior to non organic. I searched " is organic food better for you "

> > and most of what I read is that organic foods are mostly only marginally

> > better and pesticides as being the primary benefit but careful washing

> > reduces much of that threat.

> >

> >

> >

> > Tom

>

[Guest guest]

Tom - there's an excellent documentary called " Food, Inc. " that I recommend

watching. Very well done. It's been awhile since I watched it, but I believe

Pollan, author of The Omnivore's Dilemma and other books is in it.

Others have answered very well in regards to other reasons to eat organic. I

have read extensive articles on the subject myself. I know there was a consumer

reports study done, and they basically concluded that it's worth the expense for

everything but the items like bananas that have a very thick peel, or grains. I

don't know if they were accounting for genetically engineered ingredients when

they did the study, however, or if they were just checking pesticide content.

Environne produce wash is sold at Trader Joe's and is supposed to remove a lot

of pesticide residue. I agree with others, though, that many items grown

outside of the USA using pesticides outlawed here are better avoided. And esp.

avoid the gmo/gei items. Corn and soy are the two most prevalent crops in this

category.

>

>

>

>

>

> Healthy soil, soil that has not been subjected to " shock and awe "

> applications of herbicides and pesticides and burning chemical fertilizers

> for years, is host to millions of micro-organisms per cubic foot. And it's

> the micro-organisms that process organic material and make the nutrient

> materials available for uptake into food crops. That's one of the primary

> reasons factory-farmed food crops are impoverished of so much of their

> nutritive value: the soil has been sterilized and burned to a crisp.

> If you're eating organic, from farms that protect and nourish the living

> soil, your produce may be an excellent source of all the nutrition you need.

> Otherwise, informed, wise supplementation may be a good idea, depending on

> your own unique health profile. And, by the way, cheapo vitamins that are

> merely compounds of dead chemicals are pretty much a waste of money and a

> waste of good sewer space. Our bodies are NOT machines; they are living

> beings and need to be feed living food (and possibly living supplements.)

> Neil on the left coast in Calif.

>

> Supplements, was Weight loss and Vitamix

>

> There are a couple of reasons I know of for using supplemental products.

>

> If you are not certain of your foodstuffs and their growers, it is

> likely that they were commercially grown. Land used for decades (and

> longer) becomes depleted of nutrient content and therefore has no

> nutrient to convey to plant material. Generally, so long as the plant

> grows well enough to sell a product, this fact is ignored--only if the

> plant dies or produces poorly or slowly is money wasted on fertilizers

> and other soil amendments are almost never considered in a commercial

> situation. Much of our commercially-available food supply is produced

> on just such land, therefor is apt to be deficient in many if not all

> the good things we think we're getting. The defense on this one is to

> either grow your own, organically, so that the soil is cared for/fed,

> yielding a healthy soil with nutrient material to make available for

> transfer to plant material, or to know well your grower and his/her

> practices and reliability.

>

> The " organic " foods " certified " by the USDA are not even close to what

> we've actually known to be organic over the past 50 years or so....if

> you are curious about what they consider to be organic and to be organic

> practices and growing conditions, go to their website and you will see a

> giant disconnect there....the point, rather, seems to have been to

> provide a way for agribusiness to cut into the existing (actual) organic

> market. If you must purchase foods when you don't know the grower, find

> a certification agent that you can trust (takes a fair amount of

> research, I know) and then stick with it. The main reason I moved 25

> years ago to where I am now was for the active organic farming and

> gardening activity, with an excellent certification program, and I've

> never regretted that.

>

> Other than sick soil, problems that prevent our foodstuffs from being as

> nutritious as we'd like to think are pesticides and herbicides, some of

> which interfere with the processes by which materials are transferred to

> plants, air pollution with some of the same problems, contaminated water

> supplies (a growing problem), and the practice of breeding for and

> harvesting unripe plant material so that it can withstand the trip to

> market while it " ripens " .

>

> As to tablets/capsules not dissolving.....that's another big mixed-up

> mess, with some things not even designed to dissolve in the stomach but

> in the lower parts of the tract, each of which has it's own digestive

> " aids " , and any (or all) of which may well be out of kilter due to any

> number of digestive/nutrient causes...or other unrelated causes such as

> physical (even a hernia can play havoc depending on the location and

> degree of/frequency of incarceration) or environmental. So it's all tricky.

>

> So there are a few of the issues very sketchily outlined. And having

> said all that, I reared 3 kiddos and have always maintained myself

> without supplements of any kind, including through pregnancies, etc.

> But I've been blessed to be able to raise my own food on my own terms.

> If I'd not, am not sure what the path should have been....just glad we

> didn't have to go there. Each of us has to work it out ourselves.

>

> SJ, in snowy Maine

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tom! I've been a part of an organic produce coop in So Cal on and off (as the

Air Force has brought us here and moved us away several times) for the last 6

years and the biggest difference I can see right away is the quality of the

produce and the TASTE! lol! I personally find comfort in knowing the farmer who

grows my food (Vern and a few farmers he carefully selects and contracts with)

and having accountability there.

Eating local & organic also means that my family eats a highly varied diet of

seasonal veg, rather than the same technically/artificially or internationally

grown produce year around. Variety is undeniably healthier. Being a part of a

coop means that it is more affordable than organic produce in grocery stores.

You can link to my coop here:

http://www.abundantharvestorganics.com/

When we're not in So Cal and I can only get organics at the grocery store, I

totally agree with you. The quality is dismal, I am unconvinced that it is truly

'organic' and the price is ridiculous.

There is very reliable data that organics are superior for the environment, as

use of pesticides over the last years has been detrimental to many

species...That matters to me, but I know it might not matter to everyone.

Have a great day!

Beth

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Healthy soil, soil that has not been subjected to " shock and awe "

> > applications of herbicides and pesticides and burning chemical fertilizers

> > for years, is host to millions of micro-organisms per cubic foot. And it's

> > the micro-organisms that process organic material and make the nutrient

> > materials available for uptake into food crops. That's one of the primary

> > reasons factory-farmed food crops are impoverished of so much of their

> > nutritive value: the soil has been sterilized and burned to a crisp.

> > If you're eating organic, from farms that protect and nourish the living

> > soil, your produce may be an excellent source of all the nutrition you

> need.

> > Otherwise, informed, wise supplementation may be a good idea, depending on

> > your own unique health profile. And, by the way, cheapo vitamins that are

> > merely compounds of dead chemicals are pretty much a waste of money and a

> > waste of good sewer space. Our bodies are NOT machines; they are living

> > beings and need to be feed living food (and possibly living supplements.)

> > Neil on the left coast in Calif.

> >

> > Supplements, was Weight loss and Vitamix

> >

> > There are a couple of reasons I know of for using supplemental products.

> >

> > If you are not certain of your foodstuffs and their growers, it is

> > likely that they were commercially grown. Land used for decades (and

> > longer) becomes depleted of nutrient content and therefore has no

> > nutrient to convey to plant material. Generally, so long as the plant

> > grows well enough to sell a product, this fact is ignored--only if the

> > plant dies or produces poorly or slowly is money wasted on fertilizers

> > and other soil amendments are almost never considered in a commercial

> > situation. Much of our commercially-available food supply is produced

> > on just such land, therefor is apt to be deficient in many if not all

> > the good things we think we're getting. The defense on this one is to

> > either grow your own, organically, so that the soil is cared for/fed,

> > yielding a healthy soil with nutrient material to make available for

> > transfer to plant material, or to know well your grower and his/her

> > practices and reliability.

> >

> > The " organic " foods " certified " by the USDA are not even close to what

> > we've actually known to be organic over the past 50 years or so....if

> > you are curious about what they consider to be organic and to be organic

> > practices and growing conditions, go to their website and you will see a

> > giant disconnect there....the point, rather, seems to have been to

> > provide a way for agribusiness to cut into the existing (actual) organic

> > market. If you must purchase foods when you don't know the grower, find

> > a certification agent that you can trust (takes a fair amount of

> > research, I know) and then stick with it. The main reason I moved 25

> > years ago to where I am now was for the active organic farming and

> > gardening activity, with an excellent certification program, and I've

> > never regretted that.

> >

> > Other than sick soil, problems that prevent our foodstuffs from being as

> > nutritious as we'd like to think are pesticides and herbicides, some of

> > which interfere with the processes by which materials are transferred to

> > plants, air pollution with some of the same problems, contaminated water

> > supplies (a growing problem), and the practice of breeding for and

> > harvesting unripe plant material so that it can withstand the trip to

> > market while it " ripens " .

> >

> > As to tablets/capsules not dissolving.....that's another big mixed-up

> > mess, with some things not even designed to dissolve in the stomach but

> > in the lower parts of the tract, each of which has it's own digestive

> > " aids " , and any (or all) of which may well be out of kilter due to any

> > number of digestive/nutrient causes...or other unrelated causes such as

> > physical (even a hernia can play havoc depending on the location and

> > degree of/frequency of incarceration) or environmental. So it's all

> tricky.

> >

> > So there are a few of the issues very sketchily outlined. And having

> > said all that, I reared 3 kiddos and have always maintained myself

> > without supplements of any kind, including through pregnancies, etc.

> > But I've been blessed to be able to raise my own food on my own terms.

> > If I'd not, am not sure what the path should have been....just glad we

> > didn't have to go there. Each of us has to work it out ourselves.

> >

> > SJ, in snowy Maine

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I had the same questions as Tom and did a ton of research a few years ago. Best I can remember, there are significant benefits to eating organic. However, you don't have to buy all organics. Some fruits have thicker skins and therefore the pesticides have minimal, if any, effect.   I did find a list of the " dirty dozen, " which are those fruits and veggies that you should always buy organic.  Here's the list:

Veggiesceleryspinachpotatoes (don't have to peel them)bell peppersFruitsimported grapespeachesstrawberriesapplesnectarinespearscherries

raspberriesI've pretty much memorized this list and it has saved me money b/c I skip over the organic bananas and other fruits and veggies that I don't have to buy organic.When I do buy conventional, I rinse my produce off with a mixture of water and apple cider vinegar.

And, don't know if you know, but it's a good idea to check the labels on your produce. Produce with a 5 digit number beginning with an " 8 " is GMO and should be avoided at all times. A 5 digit number beginning with a " 9 " is organic and if it begins with a " 4 " it is conventional.

Hope this helps!Verria

[Guest guest]

My primary reason for sticking with organic is more than just concern over

pesticides, which by the way can NOT be washed off. Most seeds are treated

before planting, and certain pesticides are taken up into the fruit/veggie

during the growth process. I am far more concerned with the genetic

modificiation (GMO) of conventional produce, wherein the DNA of other plants,

insects, chemicals, even animals are spliced into the seeds to make plants more

pest resistant, hardy, etc. I personally do not want the head of cabbage I am

eating to have the venom of scorpions (or worse) in it. This of more concern to

me than most, since I have many food allergies, so eating something that has a

potential hidden allergen in it isn't worth the risk, but knowing what I do, I

wouldn't eat conventional produce even if I didn't have allergies.

Nutritionally, organic is about the same as conventional, but why injest extra

garbage if not needed? Most local farmers markets or food co ops have organic

produce at MUCH less than you can buy conventional for in a grocery store-it is

worth seeking it out.

>

> I had the same questions as Tom and did a ton of research a few years ago.

> Best I can remember, there are significant benefits to eating organic.

> However, you don't have to buy all organics. Some fruits have thicker skins

> and therefore the pesticides have minimal, if any, effect. I did find a

> list of the " dirty dozen, " which are those fruits and veggies that you

> should always buy organic. Here's the list:

>

> *Veggies

>

> *celery

> spinach

> potatoes (don't have to peel them)

> bell peppers

>

> *Fruits*

>

> imported grapes

> peaches

> strawberries

> apples

> nectarines

> pears

> cherries

> raspberries

>

> I've pretty much memorized this list and it has saved me money b/c I skip

> over the organic bananas and other fruits and veggies that I don't have to

> buy organic.

>

> When I do buy conventional, I rinse my produce off with a mixture of water

> and apple cider vinegar.

>

> And, don't know if you know, but it's a good idea to check the labels on

> your produce. Produce with a 5 digit number beginning with an " 8 " is GMO

> and should be avoided at all times. A 5 digit number beginning with a " 9 "

> is organic and if it begins with a " 4 " it is conventional.

>

> Hope this helps!

>

> Verria

>

[Guest guest]

You know this post makes me both joyous to live in England and miserable at the

same time :/

Joyous because luckily our government will not allow gm produce (and I avoid

imported as much as possible), yet quite sad, as our local farmers markets and

the like always charge at least 3-4 times the amount for organic produce than

what available in the supermarkets. I do appreciate that they need to turn a

profit but I think I a lot of people turn to supermarkets due to the excessive

cost. It's such a shame

Debbie

> >

> > I had the same questions as Tom and did a ton of research a few years ago.

> > Best I can remember, there are significant benefits to eating organic.

> > However, you don't have to buy all organics. Some fruits have thicker skins

> > and therefore the pesticides have minimal, if any, effect. I did find a

> > list of the " dirty dozen, " which are those fruits and veggies that you

> > should always buy organic. Here's the list:

> >

> > *Veggies

> >

> > *celery

> > spinach

> > potatoes (don't have to peel them)

> > bell peppers

> >

> > *Fruits*

> >

> > imported grapes

> > peaches

> > strawberries

> > apples

> > nectarines

> > pears

> > cherries

> > raspberries

> >

> > I've pretty much memorized this list and it has saved me money b/c I skip

> > over the organic bananas and other fruits and veggies that I don't have to

> > buy organic.

> >

> > When I do buy conventional, I rinse my produce off with a mixture of water

> > and apple cider vinegar.

> >

> > And, don't know if you know, but it's a good idea to check the labels on

> > your produce. Produce with a 5 digit number beginning with an " 8 " is GMO

> > and should be avoided at all times. A 5 digit number beginning with a " 9 "

> > is organic and if it begins with a " 4 " it is conventional.

> >

> > Hope this helps!

> >

> > Verria

> >

>

[Guest guest]

So true, Debbie! I am from England, and come back there often-I was quite

dismayed to find the prices so high at the farmer's markets, but in summers, I

found some AMAZING deals on small home garden veggie stands, so you might look

for those. Right next door to where I stay in West Row, there are several homes

that have racks set out in front of them chock full of homegrown organics, and a

simple " honesty box " to pay for them. I found similar set ups in Brighton,

Cornwall and Margate, so they must be pretty popular. Perhaps asking at your

local health food store? One reason I had/have intended to move back to the UK

is because they are FAR more vigilant in what they allow in the food supply! In

the US, anything CAN and DOES go! No telling what we are unknowingly consuming!

> > >

> > > I had the same questions as Tom and did a ton of research a few years ago.

> > > Best I can remember, there are significant benefits to eating organic.

> > > However, you don't have to buy all organics. Some fruits have thicker

skins

> > > and therefore the pesticides have minimal, if any, effect. I did find a

> > > list of the " dirty dozen, " which are those fruits and veggies that you

> > > should always buy organic. Here's the list:

> > >

> > > *Veggies

> > >

> > > *celery

> > > spinach

> > > potatoes (don't have to peel them)

> > > bell peppers

> > >

> > > *Fruits*

> > >

> > > imported grapes

> > > peaches

> > > strawberries

> > > apples

> > > nectarines

> > > pears

> > > cherries

> > > raspberries

> > >

> > > I've pretty much memorized this list and it has saved me money b/c I skip

> > > over the organic bananas and other fruits and veggies that I don't have to

> > > buy organic.

> > >

> > > When I do buy conventional, I rinse my produce off with a mixture of water

> > > and apple cider vinegar.

> > >

> > > And, don't know if you know, but it's a good idea to check the labels on

> > > your produce. Produce with a 5 digit number beginning with an " 8 " is GMO

> > > and should be avoided at all times. A 5 digit number beginning with a " 9 "

> > > is organic and if it begins with a " 4 " it is conventional.

> > >

> > > Hope this helps!

> > >

> > > Verria

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The thing to keep in mind if you tend to go by the numbers on produce, is that

if a product was grown on a farm near a GMO crop, it HAS been cross contaminated

with GMO pollens-bees and birds don't discriminate in what they land on, sadly.

Also, GMO seeds are allowed to be labeled as organically GROWN, although the

seed may not be organic and is indeed GMO, so if this of a concern to you (it

is huge for me, due to my allergies) then you need to be more vigilant and find

a local grower...or grow your own.

> > >

> > > I had the same questions as Tom and did a ton of research a few years ago.

> > > Best I can remember, there are significant benefits to eating organic.

> > > However, you don't have to buy all organics. Some fruits have thicker

skins

> > > and therefore the pesticides have minimal, if any, effect. I did find a

> > > list of the " dirty dozen, " which are those fruits and veggies that you

> > > should always buy organic. Here's the list:

> > >

> > > *Veggies

> > >

> > > *celery

> > > spinach

> > > potatoes (don't have to peel them)

> > > bell peppers

> > >

> > > *Fruits*

> > >

> > > imported grapes

> > > peaches

> > > strawberries

> > > apples

> > > nectarines

> > > pears

> > > cherries

> > > raspberries

> > >

> > > I've pretty much memorized this list and it has saved me money b/c I skip

> > > over the organic bananas and other fruits and veggies that I don't have to

> > > buy organic.

> > >

> > > When I do buy conventional, I rinse my produce off with a mixture of water

> > > and apple cider vinegar.

> > >

> > > And, don't know if you know, but it's a good idea to check the labels on

> > > your produce. Produce with a 5 digit number beginning with an " 8 " is GMO

> > > and should be avoided at all times. A 5 digit number beginning with a " 9 "

> > > is organic and if it begins with a " 4 " it is conventional.

> > >

> > > Hope this helps!

> > >

> > > Verria

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Verria,

Can you please tell me where this 5 digit number is located? I am looking at my

Organic spinach and it just has a regular bar code on it.

Also, isn't almost all produce except for beets and corn non-GMO anyway? I

thought the primary culprits were corn, soy and beets.

How does this apply to labeling of things like Taco shells, etc that are

probably GMO unless Organic?

Thanks,

Joyce

>

> I had the same questions as Tom and did a ton of research a few years ago.

> Best I can remember, there are significant benefits to eating organic.

> However, you don't have to buy all organics. Some fruits have thicker skins

> and therefore the pesticides have minimal, if any, effect. I did find a

> list of the " dirty dozen, " which are those fruits and veggies that you

> should always buy organic. Here's the list:

>

> *Veggies

>

> *celery

> spinach

> potatoes (don't have to peel them)

> bell peppers

>

> *Fruits*

>

> imported grapes

> peaches

> strawberries

> apples

> nectarines

> pears

> cherries

> raspberries

>

> I've pretty much memorized this list and it has saved me money b/c I skip

> over the organic bananas and other fruits and veggies that I don't have to

> buy organic.

>

> When I do buy conventional, I rinse my produce off with a mixture of water

> and apple cider vinegar.

>

> And, don't know if you know, but it's a good idea to check the labels on

> your produce. Produce with a 5 digit number beginning with an " 8 " is GMO

> and should be avoided at all times. A 5 digit number beginning with a " 9 "

> is organic and if it begins with a " 4 " it is conventional.

>

> Hope this helps!

>

> Verria

>

[Guest guest]

That's definitely true in the south of England however in the north east, if it

ain't pie, people don't care lol (I do!). I'll have to look into the health food

store, honestly I don't even know of any!

Debbie

> > > >

> > > > I had the same questions as Tom and did a ton of research a few years

ago.

> > > > Best I can remember, there are significant benefits to eating organic.

> > > > However, you don't have to buy all organics. Some fruits have thicker

skins

> > > > and therefore the pesticides have minimal, if any, effect. I did find

a

> > > > list of the " dirty dozen, " which are those fruits and veggies that you

> > > > should always buy organic. Here's the list:

> > > >

> > > > *Veggies

> > > >

> > > > *celery

> > > > spinach

> > > > potatoes (don't have to peel them)

> > > > bell peppers

> > > >

> > > > *Fruits*

> > > >

> > > > imported grapes

> > > > peaches

> > > > strawberries

> > > > apples

> > > > nectarines

> > > > pears

> > > > cherries

> > > > raspberries

> > > >

> > > > I've pretty much memorized this list and it has saved me money b/c I

skip

> > > > over the organic bananas and other fruits and veggies that I don't have

to

> > > > buy organic.

> > > >

> > > > When I do buy conventional, I rinse my produce off with a mixture of

water

> > > > and apple cider vinegar.

> > > >

> > > > And, don't know if you know, but it's a good idea to check the labels on

> > > > your produce. Produce with a 5 digit number beginning with an " 8 " is GMO

> > > > and should be avoided at all times. A 5 digit number beginning with a

" 9 "

> > > > is organic and if it begins with a " 4 " it is conventional.

> > > >

> > > > Hope this helps!

> > > >

> > > > Verria

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

There really is no way to avoid contamination...the GMO horse is out of the

barn! My neighbor gardens conventionally, so there is a high chance much of my

stuff has been contaminated...sadly, not much can be done about it. I do grow a

considerable amount of things indoors, in hyrdoponic gardens and containers, but

as I said-once the horse is out of the race, there is no going back

> >>>> I had the same questions as Tom and did a ton of research a few years

ago.

> >>>> Best I can remember, there are significant benefits to eating organic.

> >>>> However, you don't have to buy all organics. Some fruits have thicker

skins

> >>>> and therefore the pesticides have minimal, if any, effect. I did find a

> >>>> list of the " dirty dozen, " which are those fruits and veggies that you

> >>>> should always buy organic. Here's the list:

> >>>>

> >>>> *Veggies

> >>>>

> >>>> *celery

> >>>> spinach

> >>>> potatoes (don't have to peel them)

> >>>> bell peppers

> >>>>

> >>>> *Fruits*

> >>>>

> >>>> imported grapes

> >>>> peaches

> >>>> strawberries

> >>>> apples

> >>>> nectarines

> >>>> pears

> >>>> cherries

> >>>> raspberries

> >>>>

> >>>> I've pretty much memorized this list and it has saved me money b/c I skip

> >>>> over the organic bananas and other fruits and veggies that I don't have

to

> >>>> buy organic.

> >>>>

> >>>> When I do buy conventional, I rinse my produce off with a mixture of

water

> >>>> and apple cider vinegar.

> >>>>

> >>>> And, don't know if you know, but it's a good idea to check the labels on

> >>>> your produce. Produce with a 5 digit number beginning with an " 8 " is GMO

> >>>> and should be avoided at all times. A 5 digit number beginning with a " 9 "

> >>>> is organic and if it begins with a " 4 " it is conventional.

> >>>>

> >>>> Hope this helps!

> >>>>

> >>>> Verria

> >>>>

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Sadly, even if all GMO was stopped immediately, the damage is done. Once a crop

is " out there " , and cross pollination takes place, the damage is done. Like it

not, MOST crops, including organic, have been GMO'd. This is very likely the

cause of the decline in bee populations. Insects often have enough instinctive

sense to know to avoid certain things. They can and do pollinate many GMO

crops, but bees will avoid GMO soy and corn-unlike us, they know better! The

whole GMO thing really gets me riled up...not fair to alter food as Mother

Nature intended it. Sadly, I don't think near enough people are even aware of

the issue-I certainly wasn't until I developed such severe allergies BECAUSE of

it!

>

> That is a sad state of affairs indeed. And no going back I am thinking,

> unless Monsanto went out of business and stopped selling seeds.

> Velda

>

[Guest guest]

When you buy fresh produce (single apples, oranges, bunches of bananas, etc)

there's usually a little sticker on it. That's how the cashier's know what to

ring up. That's where the number is located. Not sure about packaged produce

like salad.

Sadly, as far as I know, companies are not required to label things as GMO or

GEI (Genetically Engineered Ingredients). Earth's Best Organic is trying to get

that label to be required. So...the only way to know for sure is to buy stuff

that IS labeled as organic - it cannot, by law, contain GMO products if it's

labeled organic.

> >

> > I had the same questions as Tom and did a ton of research a few years ago.

> > Best I can remember, there are significant benefits to eating organic.

> > However, you don't have to buy all organics. Some fruits have thicker skins

> > and therefore the pesticides have minimal, if any, effect. I did find a

> > list of the " dirty dozen, " which are those fruits and veggies that you

> > should always buy organic. Here's the list:

> >

> > *Veggies

> >

> > *celery

> > spinach

> > potatoes (don't have to peel them)

> > bell peppers

> >

> > *Fruits*

> >

> > imported grapes

> > peaches

> > strawberries

> > apples

> > nectarines

> > pears

> > cherries

> > raspberries

> >

> > I've pretty much memorized this list and it has saved me money b/c I skip

> > over the organic bananas and other fruits and veggies that I don't have to

> > buy organic.

> >

> > When I do buy conventional, I rinse my produce off with a mixture of water

> > and apple cider vinegar.

> >

> > And, don't know if you know, but it's a good idea to check the labels on

> > your produce. Produce with a 5 digit number beginning with an " 8 " is GMO

> > and should be avoided at all times. A 5 digit number beginning with a " 9 "

> > is organic and if it begins with a " 4 " it is conventional.

> >

> > Hope this helps!

> >

> > Verria

> >

>