Re: thoughts on a diploma?

March 21, 2012

.... We r in the same boat although Kenzie is a sophomore in hs now. I am

anxious to see the replies u get as it has been a struggle!!! No inclusion time

at all ... Self contained all day.. I hate it! IEP coming up in April...I am

bringing in the big guns from middle school to plead my case. Kenzie has

certainly lived down to their expectations this year!

Hancock

Signature Properties

On Mar 21, 2012, at 2:20 PM, Kerrigan <leslie-kerrigan@...> wrote:

> We are at a crossroads, and not sure which path to take. has

> been included in regular ed since kinder (some pullouts in elementary

> for math/reading, and now resource classes for math/reading.) She has

> always got good reviews from the regular ed teachers, as she

> participates, contributes, and really does seem to learn a lot (although

> does not necessarily test well here.) And, it's always a struggle to

> figure out how to get them to do their jobs and modify first, rather

> than giving her the regular assignments/hw and then having us either

> struggle/modify for her, or modify after the fact (but this is mostly my

> problem, not 's.) Overall, successful, and she is well liked

> by peers in these classes. In resources classes, she generally is able

> to do them with little help,although since math has moved to

> pre-algebra, we're having to teach her a set of rules to attack these

> problems, since it doesn't look like the teacher has. But, she's

> getting it, and did about half the homework independently (with her

> " rules " ) last night.

>

> So, as we try and make a plan for high school, and after a lot of

> discussion with the team (whose input is variable across the board, so

> they are not really helpful), we see that there are two paths. (1)

> Diploma track, which means all classes must be taken w/o modifications

> (only acccomodations). This would likely be met by taking all academics

> in a resource class (3 or 4 of 6 periods), and then being mainstreamed

> into regular ed electives and PE. Different from her current placement,

> and much more limited interactions with regular ed peers. OR, (2)

> Certificate of completion track, which means she just has to basically

> attend whichever classes to meet school requirements, but can be

> modified as needed. So, she could be in the awesome, dynamic bio

> teacher's class, and not do all the same work, but she'd be with her

> regular ed peers and a really interesting teacher/class (since resource

> just meets the standards, they are really " no-frills " which in our

> observation, was also kind of dull.) And be with the awesome kids she's

> been with primarily since kinder. But, with 45 kids in a fast-paced

> high school class, would the interactions be the same as in elementary

> and/or middle?

>

> Because our crystal ball is cloudy, we don't know if working towards a

> diploma will be of benefit to or not in her post-high school

> life :-) We think she can probably do it, but we're not sure if there

> will be a benefit to her. Those of you, especially with older kids, if

> you got a certificate of completion (or equivalent) did you ever feel

> that your child's options were limited w/o the diploma (in a job or

> situation that you know they were capable of, but someone wanted that

> piece of paper?) Or if anyone did go the diploma track, did you find

> that it was a benefit for your child, or did whatever they did post-high

> school depend more on job/vocational training and their abilities, and

> no one cared about the diploma.

>

> Thanks for reading, and any advice is appreciated!

> , mom to (16), (14 DS) and Sammy (12), auntie to

> (18)

>

March 22, 2012

I know I struggled emotionally a lot while was growing up about these

issues. I finally came to the conclusion that I first needed to consider what I

thought she would do after high school and if a " diploma " would make a

difference. For , who is nonverbal and reads about 1st grade level and

does simple addition/subtraction, I concluded that she would not need a high

school diploma to get the type of job she would " probably " have after high

school. I have to tell you that when I came to that conclusion there was a TON

of weight lifted from me.

After that we truly focused on what skills we all thought she needed. ie., she

will need to use a calculator to balance her checkbook or estimate shopping list

so no matter what math class she was in she to using a calculator while staying

fresh with simple math. She continued to be included in school and continued to

learn (we conceded about 8th grade). In a chemistry class she had to learn what

was metal and nonmetal (very important skill for cooking in overn and

microwave). We didn't waste time on things she wouldn't need in life like

understanding the periodic table of elements. She had several job over the

summers thru a program and her being around gen ed peers was instrumental in her

knowing what behaviro was appropriate. In a video store she put back movies on

the shelves so needed alphabetizing skills. We continued to look at what we

thought she could and would want to do as an adult.

I am happy with my decisions with and for her. She is now 24yo and has been

working for over 2 1/2 years. She may keep this job forever but for now she

loves it and is good at it. Hope that helps some.

Kathy Everett

678 230-6985

Kathy Everett Consulting

www.KathyEverett.com

March 22, 2012

This clearly is a sensitive topic because so many families see the

diploma as a highly desired achievement in life. I will give you my

experience which isn't current, but might help with your thought process.

My daughter was a peer of Kingsley and Mitch Levitz. The three

are close in age, meaning in the vicinity of 40. They were three who

really benefited from supportive parents and the opening of education to

our kids. All lived in the suburban Westchester county area and knew

each other growing up. Mitch Levitz's family had traced his life

growing up and at the end of high school, his story was picked up for

the Jane Pawley show. One of the features was Mitch's prom date with

Jan. In the promo spots they featured Jan. I used to have a videotape

of the show, but Jan wrote over it.

Anyway, Mitch and had families who strongly wanted their kids to

get diplomas .. in NY that meant the regents diploma. All the kids were

primarily in sped classrooms for academics plus lots of time mainstream

on open school settings. Getting the diploma took a whole lot of

devoted family tutoring and included a fair amount of both failure and

recovery from same. I know that Mitch got the diploma, but I'm less

sure about , but that is inconsequential in what I'm writing. They

did increase the requirements just after Mitch graduated and his Mom

once said that he couldn't have met the revised requirements.

We chose similar class settings for Jan. There was a lot of networking,

but the three never were in the same school or classroom at any one

time. We were happy that Jan loved learning and encouraged her in

computer use and in things like learning regular kid things like mowing

lawns, raking, and working after school in a daycare setting for 6-8

year olds. I also kept Jan physical active because she was a top level

athlete .. quite a contrast from the boys. She graduated with a special

education diploma with her high school class, but other nearby schools

were not even giving that.

So, with two boys and a diploma and one girl without, did it make any

real difference. I personally think it made little difference. All

three left high school with strong self image and went to similar post

high school settings. Mitch went to the Jespy House program, Jan went

to Chapel Haven, and went to Maplebrook.

You can see the forward projections .. at around post-high program time

in the book, " Count Us In " . It is a very positive view coaxed out of

the two young men by their mothers and a good read.

With that background, how have their adult lives worked out. All three

have struggled at times, but they all have done very well in finding

appropriate lives. I haven't seen the young men for about five years,

but Mitch lives near his family in a house they purchased for him. He

works with local politicians as an effective advocate. lives in a

group setting which is run by the three residents and which was written

up a couple of years ago in the NY Times. Each of the residents has

their own day activities and they have a good social environment. There

is a live-in house monitor, but his job seems to be to help enable the

residents to live as independently as they can.

You have heard about Jan here off and on since the beginning of this

list. She has lived the last five years in California in her own

apartment with most weekends visiting her parents.

I don't think that the presence or absence of a diploma made any

difference. These adults can read and function in life quite well, but

do require some continuing support. They all are making their marks as

adults. I am proud of all of them. None of the three has a significant

job for pay, but I don't think that is a good measure of their

contribution to society. Should Jan be cleaning tables in Macs

(as she was for a while in high school) or was her volunteer job

assisting people more handicapped than herself more important. I

believe it was the latter and that certainly got a whole lot more press

and attention. I think it really contributed to the world in a way that

was unique.

You have to look at your own family and achievement priorities. The

more inclusive setting may be better for developing social skills with

normal development peers. On the other hand, so long as their is an

open school setting, that will continue to exist, but at a lower level.

The right SPED environment is a chance for social development with

intellectual peers who may or may not be life long friends. This is not

assured, but I find that Jan really likes socialization with young women

like herself and considers them her best friends. You don't have to

agree with or go in the direction we have allowed.

What seems to me to be important is for each of our children to be

educated as close to their potential as possible. I think that many of

our kids achieve higher levels relative to their abilities than do the

regular students. Keeping the focus and love for learning is probably

more important than the setting in my mind.

Rick

March 25, 2012

Sorry I am late chiming in on this.

has done well in school with inclusion at younger years,

mainstreaming later. When the time came for high school, we realized that

with her attention span, and the block scheduling in high school, that

academic classes for her would be extremely difficult. The block

scheduling gives the high schoolers four 90 minute classes in a school day.

So we really had to sit and look at her strengths and what we wanted out of

high school for her. has always been a very strong reader and enjoys

it. Math is weaker for her. The diploma track was just not an option for

her to pursue as she would have to pass the exit exams, and to be honest, I

thought it would be too much. Now that isn't being negative about her

abilities, just realistic.

Now will be graduating in June. She has had a wonderful high school

time. She is accepted at her school. She works in the media center and

office. She takes art and other classes. She has taken Food and

Nutrition, Fashion Design and Culinary Arts. She also goes to the PAES Lab

for job training. She has been the girls basketball team manager and truly

has been a good part of the team. If you ask her, and I have, she loves

high school. She has had academics, reading, math, science and history.

She works in the chemistry lab and participates in appropriate

experiments. So it has been a good experience for her.

After graduation, she will spend one year in a job training program, then

she will be going to Coastal Carolina University in the LIFE program. This

program is designed for young adults with developmental disabilities to

give them a college experience along with education and the future. And to

top it all off......if she had graduated with a diploma, she would not be

eligible for this program. When we were making her high school plans, I

didn't even know the LIFE program existed, so things do happen for a reason.

, I would suggest thinking past high school. If you would be

interested in a post secondary program, find out their admission

requirements, that may help you decide.

Sharon

Mom to , 20 with DS and , 16.

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Kerrigan <leslie-kerrigan@...>wrote:

> **