Re: one more thing on national care

[Guest guest]

One way to lower cost is to cut out the middle man. This means,

naturally, that people need to make good financial decisions and

actually save money for that rainy day.

Chiropractic is and has always been positioned to be an excellent,

safe, and cost-effective form of health care.

The problem is that people, like I noted in my previous post, are

foolish consumers and bailing foolish consumers out with assistance

only promotes co-dependency.

I completely agree that the intent of insurance companies is to

maximize profit based on delay, deny, and defend. Any gov't

sponsored plan will use the same premise only change profit with

gov't union worker protection.

, DC, DABCO

>

> The elephant in the room is Health Care Cost. Insurers will claim

this as their primary reason for elevating premiums. BS.. First of al

the correlation simply isn't there Secondly I know that to accept

these insurance plans our offices must sign on to accepting

an " agreed " and significantly reduced amount of re-imbursement. MD's

are no different. So, where is the savings to the consumer?

> How much does our re-imbursement increase every year in relation

to premiums?

>

> The problem in this country is not health care. It's health

insurance corporations. Our health care is second to none. Would

anyone rather have any given procedure performed outside of the US?

These corporations are affecting the access to this high quality

care. This must change.

>

>

> ph Medlin D.C.

> Spine Tree Chiropractic

> www.spinetreepdx.com

>

[Guest guest]

Re:

“Our health care is second to none...”

Judges?

Bong!

Sorry.

The correct answer is, “Our crisis care is second to none.”

Thanks for playing.

Our health care industry couldn’t provide health if it was given a manual, a flashlight, and a chiropractor to read signs. No tools, no time, no pricing structure, no motivation. They’d rather sell crisis care and rename it health care.

(we interrupt this brilliant rant with a disclaimer to assert that the medical industry in America is second to none and does lots of good saving lives and anyone who criticizes them should think before they speak.)

My step daughter saw an endocrinologist and dietitian for type one diabetes.

My wife went along for cutting edge management of this new condition.

The best and the brightest specialists in the field of diabetes.

Their answer: eat whatever you want; monitor and adjust your meds.

My wife almost stabbed them in the eye with a syringe.

We really need to define our paradigms before we discuss them.

Health care is not about setting up better clinics downstream to fix the sick fish.

It is going upstream to make the environment (humans need behavior modification too) to help the fish return to the health that they are genetically programmed to enjoy. Now, where do pharmaceuticals fit in this paradigm? We’d better discuss it because someone who stands to lose a trillion dollars and even more in future earnings is going to be a fairly tough opponent. That is if you are even up to the fight.

(Assuming, of course you are part of the old school of chiropractors who don’t believe everyone should be on Vi-frickin-torin, Xanax, Prozac, Oxyconstone...)

( E. Abrahamson, D.C.)

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

From: joe medlin <spinetree@...>

Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:58:23 -0800

< >

Subject: one more thing on national care

The elephant in the room is Health Care Cost. Insurers will claim this as their primary reason for elevating premiums. BS.. First of al the correlation simply isn't there Secondly I know that to accept these insurance plans our offices must sign on to accepting an " agreed " and significantly reduced amount of re-imbursement. MD's are no different. So, where is the savings to the consumer?

How much does our re-imbursement increase every year in relation to premiums?

The problem in this country is not health care. It's health insurance corporations. Our health care is second to none. Would anyone rather have any given procedure performed outside of the US? These corporations are affecting the access to this high quality care. This must change.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chiropractic

www.spinetreepdx.com <http://www.spinetreepdx.com>

[Guest guest]

I don't think that your view is pretentious at all. I know others

feel the way you do and at the same time others feel the way I do.

I do, however, like your musical style.

Take care,

> >

> > The elephant in the room is Health Care Cost. Insurers will claim

> this as their primary reason for elevating premiums. BS.. First of

al

> the correlation simply isn't there Secondly I know that to accept

> these insurance plans our offices must sign on to accepting

> an " agreed " and significantly reduced amount of re-imbursement.

MD's

> are no different. So, where is the savings to the consumer?

> > How much does our re-imbursement increase every year in relation

> to premiums?

> >

> > The problem in this country is not health care. It's health

> insurance corporations. Our health care is second to none. Would

> anyone rather have any given procedure performed outside of the US?

> These corporations are affecting the access to this high quality

> care. This must change.

> >

> >

> > ph Medlin D.C.

> > Spine Tree Chiropractic

> > www.spinetreepdx. com

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> http://www./r/hs

>

[Guest guest]

Well, it is what it is and lowering the cost to be insured for whatever it is has little to do with what we call it.

But, yes, an idealistic paradigm shift in this country's health care system should do wonders in lowering cost via lowering demand. Eventually it has to turn that direction. As many have said the current system is unsustainable. However, if this paradigm was shifted today, something tells me that the results via health ins. savings would be slow coming if at all. I think we need an immediate solution in conjunction with the long term solution you suggest.

And yes, i'm pretty old school

ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropracticwww.spinetreepdx.com

one more thing on national care The elephant in the room is Health Care Cost. Insurers will claim this as their primary reason for elevating premiums. BS.. First of al the correlation simply isn't there Secondly I know that to accept these insurance plans our offices must sign on to accepting an "agreed" and significantly reduced amount of re-imbursement. MD's are no different. So, where is the savings to the consumer? How much does our re-imbursement increase every year in relation to premiums?The problem in this country is not health care. It's health insurance corporations. Our health care is second to none. Would anyone rather have any given procedure performed outside of the US? These corporations are affecting the access to this high quality care. This must change. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropracticwww.spinetreepdx.com <http://www.spinetreepdx.com>

[Guest guest]

Rather than ad hominem attacks and cynicism, read the evidence on the state of health care in America.  It will probably be too long though; so just read the Executive Summary, it's only 22 pages.   http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10027 Sears, DCNW PDX On Feb 11, 2008, at 9:19 AM, joe medlin wrote:Well, it is what it is and lowering the cost to be insured for whatever it is has little to do with what we call it. But, yes, an idealistic paradigm shift in this country's health care system should do wonders in lowering cost via lowering demand. Eventually it has to turn that direction. As many have said the current system is unsustainable. However, if this paradigm was shifted today, something tells me that  the results via health ins. savings would be slow coming if at all.  I think we need an immediate solution in conjunction with the long term solution you suggest. And yes, i'm pretty old school   ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropracticwww.spinetreepdx.com  one more thing on national care   The elephant in the room is Health Care Cost. Insurers will claim this as their primary reason for elevating premiums. BS.. First of al the correlation simply isn't there Secondly I know that to accept these insurance plans our offices must sign on to accepting an "agreed" and significantly reduced amount of re-imbursement. MD's are no different. So, where is the savings to the consumer? How much does our re-imbursement increase every year in relation to premiums?The problem in this country is not health care. It's health insurance corporations. Our health care is second to none. Would anyone rather have any given procedure performed outside of the US? These corporations are affecting the access to this high quality care. This must change. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropracticwww.spinetreepdx.com <http://www.spinetreepdx.com>     

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the link Micheal. There is some good info in this lengthy document. Haven't made it through the whole thing yet. I did come across this though:

"Overuse of health care services is common. Examples include the following:

performance of major surgery (e.g., hysterectomy, coronary artery bypass graft) without appropriate reasons;

provision of antibiotics for the common cold and other viral upper respiratory tract infections for which they are ineffective;

insertion of tubes in children’s eardrums in the absence of clinically appropriate indications; and

performance of chiropractic spinal manipulation for certain back conditions for which there is no evidence of benefit."Holly molly! Chiropractic got honorable mention for medical overuse. What a strange world we live in. No mention of overuse of teeth cleaning by dentists, or over exercising by PT's, or over-needling by acupuncturists.

I gotta get into contact with these folks and see what their priorities are. I'll try not to come across like a zealot. But that is just crazy! Maybe I will wait a day and chill out a bit before contacting them. I think I am a bit thin-skinned today.

Be well,

Jay

Lindekugel, DC

Concordia Chiropractic Center

5425 NE 33rd Ave.

Portland, Or. 97211

one more thing on national care The elephant in the room is Health Care Cost. Insurers will claim this as their primary reason for elevating premiums. BS.. First of al the correlation simply isn't there Secondly I know that to accept these insurance plans our offices must sign on to accepting an "agreed" and significantly reduced amount of re-imbursement. MD's are no different. So, where is the savings

to the consumer? How much does our re-imbursement increase every year in relation to premiums?The problem in this country is not health care. It's health insurance corporations. Our health care is second to none. Would anyone rather have any given procedure performed outside of the US? These corporations are affecting the access to this high quality care. This must change. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropracticwww.spinetreepdx. com <http://www.spinetre epdx.com>

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Here's the link to the study participants...http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10027 & page=R5 Sears, DCNW PDX On Feb 11, 2008, at 3:42 PM, Lindekugel wrote:Thanks for the link Micheal.  There is some good info in this lengthy document.  Haven't made it through the whole thing yet.  I did come across this though: "Overuse of health care services is common. Examples include the following:performance of major surgery (e.g., hysterectomy, coronary artery bypass graft) without appropriate reasons;provision of antibiotics for the common cold and other viral upper respiratory tract infections for which they are ineffective;insertion of tubes in children’s eardrums in the absence of clinically appropriate indications; andperformance of chiropractic spinal manipulation for certain back conditions for which there is no evidence of benefit."Holly molly!  Chiropractic got honorable mention for medical overuse.  What a strange world we live in.  No mention of overuse of teeth cleaning by dentists, or over exercising by PT's, or over-needling by acupuncturists.  I gotta get into contact with these folks and see what their priorities are.  I'll try not to come across like a zealot.  But that is just crazy!  Maybe I will wait a day and chill out a bit before contacting them.  I think I am a bit thin-skinned today. Be well, Jay  Lindekugel, DCConcordia Chiropractic Center5425 NE 33rd Ave.Portland, Or. 97211    one more thing on national care   The elephant in the room is Health Care Cost. Insurers will claim this as their primary reason for elevating premiums. BS.. First of al the correlation simply isn't there Secondly I know that to accept these insurance plans our offices must sign on to accepting an "agreed" and significantly reduced amount of re-imbursement. MD's are no different. So, where is the savings to the consumer? How much does our re-imbursement increase every year in relation to premiums?The problem in this country is not health care. It's health insurance corporations. Our health care is second to none. Would anyone rather have any given procedure performed outside of the US? These corporations are affecting the access to this high quality care. This must change. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropracticwww.spinetreepdx. com <http://www.spinetre epdx.com>     Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

After thinking more about it, I have decided to get some more info from these folks.. My request is simply:

Thank you for taking the time to put together such a needed document. As a chiropractor, I couldn't help but wonder what research you had come across that showed that there was an over-utilization of chiropractic manipulative therapy for conditions in which there is no evidence of benefit. I am not aware of this study and would be interested to find out more about it. Here is the statement from your appendix. Thank you.

"Overuse of health care services is common. Examples include the following:performance of chiropractic spinal manipulation for certain back conditions for which there is no evidence of benefit."

Sincerely,

Lindekugel, DC

Concordia Chiropractic Center

5425 NE 33rd Ave.

Jay

one more thing on national care The elephant in the room is Health Care Cost. Insurers will claim this as their primary reason for elevating premiums. BS.. First of al the correlation simply isn't there Secondly I know that to accept these insurance plans our offices must sign on to

accepting an "agreed" and significantly reduced amount of re-imbursement. MD's are no different. So, where is the savings to the consumer? How much does our re-imbursement increase every year in relation to premiums?The problem in this country is not health care. It's health insurance corporations. Our health care is second to none. Would anyone rather have any given procedure performed outside of the US? These corporations are affecting the access to this high quality care. This must change. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropracticwww.spinetreepdx. com <http://www.spinetre epdx.com>

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[Guest guest]

great letter ... I would just make one suggestion ...... ..".in which there is, supposedly, no evidence of benefit."

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

dm.bones@...CC: From: pdxchiroguy@...Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:25:57 -0800Subject: Re: one more thing on national care

After thinking more about it, I have decided to get some more info from these folks.. My request is simply:

Thank you for taking the time to put together such a needed document. As a chiropractor, I couldn't help but wonder what research you had come across that showed that there was an over-utilization of chiropractic manipulative therapy for conditions in which there is no evidence of benefit. I am not aware of this study and would be interested to find out more about it. Here is the statement from your appendix. Thank you.

"Overuse of health care services is common. Examples include the following:performance of chiropractic spinal manipulation for certain back conditions for which there is no evidence of benefit."

Sincerely,

Lindekugel, DC

Concordia Chiropractic Center

5425 NE 33rd Ave.

Jay

one more thing on national care The elephant in the room is Health Care Cost. Insurers will claim this as their primary reason for elevating premiums. BS.. First of al the correlation simply isn't there Secondly I know that to accept these insurance plans our offices must sign on to accepting an "agreed" and significantly reduced amount of re-imbursement. MD's are no different. So, where is the savings to the consumer? How much does our re-imbursement increase every year in relation to premiums?The problem in this country is not health care. It's health insurance corporations. Our health care is second to none. Would anyone rather have any given procedure performed outside of the US? These corporations are affecting the access to this high quality care. This must change. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropracticwww.spinetreepdx. com <http://www.spinetre epdx.com>

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[Guest guest]

Thanks Sunny,

I'll change that part and let you all know what they send me, if anything.

Jay

one more thing on national care The elephant in the room is Health Care Cost. Insurers will claim this as their primary reason for elevating premiums. BS.. First of al the correlation simply isn't there Secondly I know that to accept these insurance plans our offices

must sign on to accepting an "agreed" and significantly reduced amount of re-imbursement. MD's are no different. So, where is the savings to the consumer? How much does our re-imbursement increase every year in relation to premiums?The problem in this country is not health care. It's health insurance corporations. Our health care is second to none. Would anyone rather have any given procedure performed outside of the US? These corporations are affecting the access to this high quality care. This must change. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropracticwww.spinetreepdx. com <http://www.spinetre epdx.com>

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now!

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.