Re: Redd, CDC

[Guest guest]

Is this it?

FEMA Announcements Last Updated: Sep 29th, 2005 - 07:29:19

http://communitydispatch.com/artman/publish/article_2249.shtml

Update on Health Issues Related to Mold, Mildew and Mud in Hurricane

and Flood Affected Areas

By Center for Disease Control and Prevention

Sep 29, 2005, 07:08

>

> Hey,

>

> Do you all remember back a few weeks ago, when Dr. Redd gave a

public

> interview regarding the known effects of mold. It was a health

warning (lol) for

> those returning to New Orleans.

>

> I can't find it. Does anybody know where to find that verbatum

info?

>

> Thanks,

> Sharon

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/15/2005 12:22:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,

grimes@... writes:

KC and Sharon,

At the risk of sounding like a traitor, don't throw the baby out with

the bathwater. There is a lot of excellent information in this

briefing, especially the warning against unnecessary testing and

being careful about remediators. I also like the statement that if it

is porous and moldy, throw it out instead of trying to clean it.

Wonder what the insurance adjustors think of that?

I also like that the EPA guy specifically mentions that they include

data that would be applicable to those with greater sensitivity. At

least it's a start.

What I do disagree with, is they don't go far enough in explaining

that public health is not the same as individual health. Therefore,

what they deem as overall acceptable to the " general public " may not

be for a specific individual. That would remove some of the support

to the naysayers.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Is this i

>

> FEMA Announcements Last Updated: Sep 29th, 2005 - 07:29:19

>

>

> http://communitydispatch.com/artman/publish/article_2249.shtml

Hey Carl,

You are one who could never, ever be considered a traitor in the fight to

help mold victims! And in reality, why should there be traitors to this issue

at all? Whether one is most concerned about the physical impact of this

issue or if one is most concerned about the financial impact of this

issue....this issue is uselessly wasting many lives and much money.

It is beyond me, why this even is an issue. Seems like all would want to do

everything possible to move the science forward.

There is some good information in this doc. But what is glaringly missing

from the CDC is the acknowledgement that molds and mold toxins can produce

severe, life threatening illnesses in prior healthly people. And there in,

lays

the heart of all the contention of the " Toxic Mold Issue " .

Numerous times within the more comprehensive mold doc that was recently

written the CDC makes statesment of " rare, little is known, in a small segment

of

the population, etc " .

The illnesses we are all experiencing are not mere IgE mediated minor

allergies, yet that is the only place where the CDC has focused any research for

those who are immunocompetent. Still they continue to make statesment of the

rarity of our illnesses.

We have asked numerous times that they track these symptoms indicative of

serious Type III hypersensitivity reactions and mycotoxicoses. To date, they

have taken no action to do so.

So, the statements of rarity of these illnesses in prior healthy people is

not based on any scientific evidence....it is anecdotal information being

presented by the CDC as sound science. It is making it difficult for those who

are experiencing these illnesses to find proper medical care. And it is

hurting us all, physically and financially.

Those who are currently being exposed to excessive amounts of mold after

Katrina, yet are not immunocompromised, are being left wide open by the CDC to

acquire serious mold and mold toxin induced illneses. They are being told,

runny noses, minor coughs, etc. All of us on this board know that is not true

and accurate information...as does the CDC. Whether they want to call it rare

or not rare based on some fictious study of numbers of those affected, they

know it does happen and they are not properly warning people of the

potentially serious illnesses of mold.

I guess that would be my beef with what is being put out there by the CDC. I

don't want to see one other person unnecessarily have to go through what most

of us on this board have had to go through.

Sharon

[Guest guest]

So are you saying throw away desks, wood furniture, sofas etc. Can they not be

cleaned? Loni

snk1955@... wrote:

In a message dated 11/15/2005 12:22:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,

grimes@... writes:

KC and Sharon,

At the risk of sounding like a traitor, don't throw the baby out with

the bathwater. There is a lot of excellent information in this

briefing, especially the warning against unnecessary testing and

being careful about remediators. I also like the statement that if it

is porous and moldy, throw it out instead of trying to clean it.

Wonder what the insurance adjustors think of that?

I also like that the EPA guy specifically mentions that they include

data that would be applicable to those with greater sensitivity. At

least it's a start.

What I do disagree with, is they don't go far enough in explaining

that public health is not the same as individual health. Therefore,

what they deem as overall acceptable to the " general public " may not

be for a specific individual. That would remove some of the support

to the naysayers.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Is this i

>

> FEMA Announcements Last Updated: Sep 29th, 2005 - 07:29:19

>

>

> http://communitydispatch.com/artman/publish/article_2249.shtml

Hey Carl,

You are one who could never, ever be considered a traitor in the fight to

help mold victims! And in reality, why should there be traitors to this issue

at all? Whether one is most concerned about the physical impact of this

issue or if one is most concerned about the financial impact of this

issue....this issue is uselessly wasting many lives and much money.

It is beyond me, why this even is an issue. Seems like all would want to do

everything possible to move the science forward.

There is some good information in this doc. But what is glaringly missing

from the CDC is the acknowledgement that molds and mold toxins can produce

severe, life threatening illnesses in prior healthly people. And there in,

lays

the heart of all the contention of the " Toxic Mold Issue " .

Numerous times within the more comprehensive mold doc that was recently

written the CDC makes statesment of " rare, little is known, in a small segment

of

the population, etc " .

The illnesses we are all experiencing are not mere IgE mediated minor

allergies, yet that is the only place where the CDC has focused any research for

those who are immunocompetent. Still they continue to make statesment of the

rarity of our illnesses.

We have asked numerous times that they track these symptoms indicative of

serious Type III hypersensitivity reactions and mycotoxicoses. To date, they

have taken no action to do so.

So, the statements of rarity of these illnesses in prior healthy people is

not based on any scientific evidence....it is anecdotal information being

presented by the CDC as sound science. It is making it difficult for those who

are experiencing these illnesses to find proper medical care. And it is

hurting us all, physically and financially.

Those who are currently being exposed to excessive amounts of mold after

Katrina, yet are not immunocompromised, are being left wide open by the CDC to

acquire serious mold and mold toxin induced illneses. They are being told,

runny noses, minor coughs, etc. All of us on this board know that is not true

and accurate information...as does the CDC. Whether they want to call it rare

or not rare based on some fictious study of numbers of those affected, they

know it does happen and they are not properly warning people of the

potentially serious illnesses of mold.

I guess that would be my beef with what is being put out there by the CDC. I

don't want to see one other person unnecessarily have to go through what most

of us on this board have had to go through.

Sharon

[Guest guest]

Is this the news release you were referring to?

Health Officials Warn of Mold After Hurricanes

By , MedPage Today Staff Writer

Reviewed by Jasmer, MD; Assistant Professor of Medicine, University of

California, San Francisco

September 28, 2005

Also covered by: CNN, MSNBC, USA Today

Review

ATLANTA, Sept. 28-In the wake of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, health officials

are warning that conditions are right for explosive growth of molds, with health

consequences that can range from a runny nose to full-blown pneumonia.

" The mold issue is something that will affect the entire Gulf Coast region,

but is going to be a particular problem in New Orleans because of the flooding

that occurred there and the duration of the flooding, " said Redd, M.D.,

of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention here. Ordinarily, molds can't

grow in homes and other buildings because there isn't enough moisture, Dr. Redd

told a press briefing. " The conditions for mold growth … are really optimal

now, " he said.

He said the health consequences of mold exposure fall into three categories:

Infections -- mostly a concern in people with suppressed immune systems --

that can lead to such diseases as pneumonia and fungal sinusitis.

Allergic reactions, causing runny nose, itchy eyes, and in some cases

shortness of breath. In some circumstances, mold can produce toxins that are

dangerous if they're eaten or touched. (Some species of the mold aspergillus,

for instance, produce aflatoxins, which can cause liver damage.)

A Louisiana health official said so far there hasn't been increase in

mold-related complaints in New Orleans, but that may reflect the fact that few

people have yet been allowed back into the stricken city.

" We haven't seen a spike, " said Fred Cerise, M.D., of the Louisiana Department

of Health and Hospitals. " But we are seeing some respiratory symptoms -- cough,

cold, and allergic-type symptoms -- and some rashes from contact with the

environment. "

While New Orleans hospitals are still out of action, he told the briefing,

three institutions in the surrounding area are able to take patients with

mold-related illnesses. " We haven't seen those hospitals reach capacity, " he

said, " and they have significant ability to ramp up should that be required. "

Moreover, emergency aid stations have been set up in the city " and none of

them has been close to being overwhelmed, " he said. The spores that cause mold

need nutrients and moisture to grow, said Isham, laboratory supervisor at

the Center for Medical Mycology at the University Hospitals of Cleveland.

Many of them can break down cellulose for food, meaning they can colonize

everything from an old cardboard box to the studs and rafters of a house, Isham

said in an interview.

Depending on the extent of the mold colony, home- and business-owners might be

faced with a huge clean-up job, said Anupma Dixit, Ph.D., of the School of

Public Health at St. Louis University in St. Louis, MO. " If you have mold on

drywall, for instance, the best solution might be to get rid of the drywall, "

Dr. Dixit said in an interview, and the same reasoning would apply to insulation

and wood studs.

Small colonies can be removed with a 10% solution of bleach, but anything over

about 10 square feet needs professional care, Environmental Protection Agency

spokesman told the press briefing. It's important to get rid of

mold as completely as possible, said Dr. Dixit, who studied the aftermath of the

1993 Mississippi River floods, which saw 17,000 square miles of land in nine

states under water for several weeks.

" The flooding on the Gulf Coast has brought a lot of memories back, " Dr. Dixit

said.

One difference is that the Mississippi flooded land was mostly agricultural,

so relatively few buildings were affected, Dr. Dixit said. Even so, when she

studied the region later, a third of the once-flooded buildings still had high

levels of mold spores, despite intensive efforts at renovation.

Dr. Dixit found that a third of the people who moved back into homes that had

been flooded saw allergy symptoms worsen.

" For allergy and asthma, the first line of defense is removal of the

allergen, " Dr. Dixit said; if the removal isn't complete, the symptoms won't go

away.

The most common indoor molds are Cladosporium, Penicillium, Aspergillus, and

Alternaria, according to the CDC, but flooding is likely to bring many other

species indoors, Dr. Dixit said.

The mold Stachybotrys chartarum -- which has been linked to pulmonary bleeding

in infants -- can also be found in buildings and homes. " While it is less common

than other mold species, it is not rare, " the CDC Web site says.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

--------------------------------------

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/112/110516?src=RSS_PUBLIC

Short-term mold exposure is usually harmless for nonsusceptible people, but

those with underlying conditions should avoid moldy houses and buildings, Redd

said. Anyone doing demolition or large-scale cleanup work in damp areas should

use an M-95 mask to filter breathed air, he said.

---------------------------------

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

I got on the WebMd website and the doc says that you can't get sick from mold.

I think his name was Dr. Bernstien. That's one website I won't revisit.

Marcie

Kathy <kathywnb@...> wrote:

Is this the news release you were referring to?

Health Officials Warn of Mold After Hurricanes

By , MedPage Today Staff Writer

Reviewed by Jasmer, MD; Assistant Professor of Medicine, University of

California, San Francisco

September 28, 2005

Also covered by: CNN, MSNBC, USA Today

Review

ATLANTA, Sept. 28-In the wake of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, health officials

are warning that conditions are right for explosive growth of molds, with health

consequences that can range from a runny nose to full-blown pneumonia.

" The mold issue is something that will affect the entire Gulf Coast region,

but is going to be a particular problem in New Orleans because of the flooding

that occurred there and the duration of the flooding, " said Redd, M.D.,

of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention here. Ordinarily, molds can't

grow in homes and other buildings because there isn't enough moisture, Dr. Redd

told a press briefing. " The conditions for mold growth … are really optimal

now, " he said.

He said the health consequences of mold exposure fall into three categories:

Infections -- mostly a concern in people with suppressed immune systems --

that can lead to such diseases as pneumonia and fungal sinusitis.

Allergic reactions, causing runny nose, itchy eyes, and in some cases

shortness of breath. In some circumstances, mold can produce toxins that are

dangerous if they're eaten or touched. (Some species of the mold aspergillus,

for instance, produce aflatoxins, which can cause liver damage.)

A Louisiana health official said so far there hasn't been increase in

mold-related complaints in New Orleans, but that may reflect the fact that few

people have yet been allowed back into the stricken city.

" We haven't seen a spike, " said Fred Cerise, M.D., of the Louisiana Department

of Health and Hospitals. " But we are seeing some respiratory symptoms -- cough,

cold, and allergic-type symptoms -- and some rashes from contact with the

environment. "

While New Orleans hospitals are still out of action, he told the briefing,

three institutions in the surrounding area are able to take patients with

mold-related illnesses. " We haven't seen those hospitals reach capacity, " he

said, " and they have significant ability to ramp up should that be required. "

Moreover, emergency aid stations have been set up in the city " and none of

them has been close to being overwhelmed, " he said. The spores that cause mold

need nutrients and moisture to grow, said Isham, laboratory supervisor at

the Center for Medical Mycology at the University Hospitals of Cleveland.

Many of them can break down cellulose for food, meaning they can colonize

everything from an old cardboard box to the studs and rafters of a house, Isham

said in an interview.

Depending on the extent of the mold colony, home- and business-owners might be

faced with a huge clean-up job, said Anupma Dixit, Ph.D., of the School of

Public Health at St. Louis University in St. Louis, MO. " If you have mold on

drywall, for instance, the best solution might be to get rid of the drywall, "

Dr. Dixit said in an interview, and the same reasoning would apply to insulation

and wood studs.

Small colonies can be removed with a 10% solution of bleach, but anything over

about 10 square feet needs professional care, Environmental Protection Agency

spokesman told the press briefing. It's important to get rid of

mold as completely as possible, said Dr. Dixit, who studied the aftermath of the

1993 Mississippi River floods, which saw 17,000 square miles of land in nine

states under water for several weeks.

" The flooding on the Gulf Coast has brought a lot of memories back, " Dr. Dixit

said.

One difference is that the Mississippi flooded land was mostly agricultural,

so relatively few buildings were affected, Dr. Dixit said. Even so, when she

studied the region later, a third of the once-flooded buildings still had high

levels of mold spores, despite intensive efforts at renovation.

Dr. Dixit found that a third of the people who moved back into homes that had

been flooded saw allergy symptoms worsen.

" For allergy and asthma, the first line of defense is removal of the

allergen, " Dr. Dixit said; if the removal isn't complete, the symptoms won't go

away.

The most common indoor molds are Cladosporium, Penicillium, Aspergillus, and

Alternaria, according to the CDC, but flooding is likely to bring many other

species indoors, Dr. Dixit said.

The mold Stachybotrys chartarum -- which has been linked to pulmonary bleeding

in infants -- can also be found in buildings and homes. " While it is less common

than other mold species, it is not rare, " the CDC Web site says.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

--------------------------------------

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/112/110516?src=RSS_PUBLIC

Short-term mold exposure is usually harmless for nonsusceptible people, but

those with underlying conditions should avoid moldy houses and buildings, Redd

said. Anyone doing demolition or large-scale cleanup work in damp areas should

use an M-95 mask to filter breathed air, he said.

---------------------------------

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

OMG, MARCIE, WHOOOOOOOOOO DR BERNSTEIN? DO YOU REMEMBER HIS FIRST NAME? OR

, JUST MAYBE WHERE HE'S FROM?

THANKS!

VICTORIA

Re: [] Re: Redd, CDC

I got on the WebMd website and the doc says that you can't get sick from

mold.

I think his name was Dr. Bernstien. That's one website I won't revisit.

Marcie

Kathy <kathywnb@...> wrote:

Is this the news release you were referring to?

Health Officials Warn of Mold After Hurricanes

By , MedPage Today Staff Writer

Reviewed by Jasmer, MD; Assistant Professor of Medicine, University

of California, San Francisco

September 28, 2005

Also covered by: CNN, MSNBC, USA Today

Review

ATLANTA, Sept. 28-In the wake of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, health

officials are warning that conditions are right for explosive growth of

molds, with health consequences that can range from a runny nose to

full-blown pneumonia.

" The mold issue is something that will affect the entire Gulf Coast

region, but is going to be a particular problem in New Orleans because of

the flooding that occurred there and the duration of the flooding, " said

Redd, M.D., of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention here.

Ordinarily, molds can't grow in homes and other buildings because there

isn't enough moisture, Dr. Redd told a press briefing. " The conditions for

mold growth . are really optimal now, " he said.

He said the health consequences of mold exposure fall into three

categories:

Infections -- mostly a concern in people with suppressed immune

systems -- that can lead to such diseases as pneumonia and fungal sinusitis.

Allergic reactions, causing runny nose, itchy eyes, and in some cases

shortness of breath. In some circumstances, mold can produce toxins that are

dangerous if they're eaten or touched. (Some species of the mold

aspergillus, for instance, produce aflatoxins, which can cause liver

damage.)

A Louisiana health official said so far there hasn't been increase in

mold-related complaints in New Orleans, but that may reflect the fact that

few people have yet been allowed back into the stricken city.

" We haven't seen a spike, " said Fred Cerise, M.D., of the Louisiana

Department of Health and Hospitals. " But we are seeing some respiratory

symptoms -- cough, cold, and allergic-type symptoms -- and some rashes from

contact with the environment. "

While New Orleans hospitals are still out of action, he told the briefing,

three institutions in the surrounding area are able to take patients with

mold-related illnesses. " We haven't seen those hospitals reach capacity, " he

said, " and they have significant ability to ramp up should that be

required. "

Moreover, emergency aid stations have been set up in the city " and none of

them has been close to being overwhelmed, " he said. The spores that cause

mold need nutrients and moisture to grow, said Isham, laboratory

supervisor at the Center for Medical Mycology at the University Hospitals of

Cleveland.

Many of them can break down cellulose for food, meaning they can colonize

everything from an old cardboard box to the studs and rafters of a house,

Isham said in an interview.

Depending on the extent of the mold colony, home- and business-owners

might be faced with a huge clean-up job, said Anupma Dixit, Ph.D., of the

School of Public Health at St. Louis University in St. Louis, MO. " If you

have mold on drywall, for instance, the best solution might be to get rid of

the drywall, " Dr. Dixit said in an interview, and the same reasoning would

apply to insulation and wood studs.

Small colonies can be removed with a 10% solution of bleach, but anything

over about 10 square feet needs professional care, Environmental Protection

Agency spokesman told the press briefing. It's important to

get rid of mold as completely as possible, said Dr. Dixit, who studied the

aftermath of the 1993 Mississippi River floods, which saw 17,000 square

miles of land in nine states under water for several weeks.

" The flooding on the Gulf Coast has brought a lot of memories back, " Dr.

Dixit said.

One difference is that the Mississippi flooded land was mostly

agricultural, so relatively few buildings were affected, Dr. Dixit said.

Even so, when she studied the region later, a third of the once-flooded

buildings still had high levels of mold spores, despite intensive efforts at

renovation.

Dr. Dixit found that a third of the people who moved back into homes that

had been flooded saw allergy symptoms worsen.

" For allergy and asthma, the first line of defense is removal of the

allergen, " Dr. Dixit said; if the removal isn't complete, the symptoms won't

go away.

The most common indoor molds are Cladosporium, Penicillium, Aspergillus,

and Alternaria, according to the CDC, but flooding is likely to bring many

other species indoors, Dr. Dixit said.

The mold Stachybotrys chartarum -- which has been linked to pulmonary

bleeding in infants -- can also be found in buildings and homes. " While it

is less common than other mold species, it is not rare, " the CDC Web site

says.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

--------------------------------------

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/112/110516?src=RSS_PUBLIC

Short-term mold exposure is usually harmless for nonsusceptible people,

but those with underlying conditions should avoid moldy houses and

buildings, Redd said. Anyone doing demolition or large-scale cleanup work in

damp areas should use an M-95 mask to filter breathed air, he said.

---------------------------------

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

Loni,

It depends. Don't you just love a definitive answer like that?

We can take a clue from the IICRC S520 Standard and Reference Guide

for Professional Mold Remediation. If we look at the obvious at both

extremes we can say that a simple surface that is hard and smooth can

be cleaned with soap and water to remove any dirt, mold growth,

bacteria, etc. So try. But it may not be successful for the highly

reactive individuals.

At the other extreme we can say that complex structures with nooks

and crannies that are hard-to-nearly-impossible to clean have little

chance of success. Likewise, rough surfaces that are porous like

fabric that have mold growth would be nearly impossible. So don't

try. If the mold has merely settled onto the surface like dust, then

maybe.

So what about all the objects that aren't obvious, with mixed

characteristics? It depends. They may take 2, 3 or more cleaning

attempts and still not be successful. By that time is usually cheaper

to replace it anyway. Some will be cleaned sufficiently for a typical

person, a few might be for a sensitive person, and some never for a

highly reactive person.

Decide on the obvious and then make choices about all those in the

middle. Is their inherent or perceived value worth the risk of

spending money on a failure? Are you so sensitive that the chance of

success is zero? Someone recently posted about how to clean their

art. There are specialists for that but is so expensive the art has

to be extremely valuable. Most of these answers won't be known for

sure until you try it. What is the risk with your circumstances?

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> So are you saying throw away desks, wood furniture, sofas etc. Can

> they not be cleaned? Loni

>

> snk1955@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/15/2005 12:22:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> grimes@... writes:

>

> KC and Sharon,

>

> At the risk of sounding like a traitor, don't throw the baby out with

> the bathwater. There is a lot of excellent information in this

> briefing, especially the warning against unnecessary testing and being

> careful about remediators. I also like the statement that if it is

> porous and moldy, throw it out instead of trying to clean it. Wonder

> what the insurance adjustors think of that?

>

> I also like that the EPA guy specifically mentions that they include

> data that would be applicable to those with greater sensitivity. At

> least it's a start.

>

> What I do disagree with, is they don't go far enough in explaining

> that public health is not the same as individual health. Therefore,

> what they deem as overall acceptable to the " general public " may not

> be for a specific individual. That would remove some of the support

> to the naysayers.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > Is this i

> >

> > FEMA Announcements Last Updated: Sep 29th, 2005 - 07:29:19

> >

> >

> > http://communitydispatch.com/artman/publish/article_2249.shtml

>

>

> Hey Carl,

>

> You are one who could never, ever be considered a traitor in the fight

> to help mold victims! And in reality, why should there be traitors

> to this issue at all? Whether one is most concerned about the

> physical impact of this issue or if one is most concerned about the

> financial impact of this issue....this issue is uselessly wasting

> many lives and much money.

>

> It is beyond me, why this even is an issue. Seems like all would want

> to do everything possible to move the science forward.

>

> There is some good information in this doc. But what is glaringly

> missing from the CDC is the acknowledgement that molds and mold toxins

> can produce severe, life threatening illnesses in prior healthly

> people. And there in, lays the heart of all the contention of the

> " Toxic Mold Issue " .

>

> Numerous times within the more comprehensive mold doc that was

> recently written the CDC makes statesment of " rare, little is known,

> in a small segment of the population, etc " .

>

> The illnesses we are all experiencing are not mere IgE mediated minor

> allergies, yet that is the only place where the CDC has focused any

> research for those who are immunocompetent. Still they continue to

> make statesment of the rarity of our illnesses.

>

> We have asked numerous times that they track these symptoms indicative

> of serious Type III hypersensitivity reactions and mycotoxicoses. To

> date, they have taken no action to do so.

>

> So, the statements of rarity of these illnesses in prior healthy

> people is not based on any scientific evidence....it is anecdotal

> information being presented by the CDC as sound science. It is

> making it difficult for those who are experiencing these illnesses to

> find proper medical care. And it is hurting us all, physically and

> financially.

>

> Those who are currently being exposed to excessive amounts of mold

> after Katrina, yet are not immunocompromised, are being left wide

> open by the CDC to acquire serious mold and mold toxin induced

> illneses. They are being told, runny noses, minor coughs, etc. All

> of us on this board know that is not true and accurate

> information...as does the CDC. Whether they want to call it rare or

> not rare based on some fictious study of numbers of those affected,

> they know it does happen and they are not properly warning people of

> the potentially serious illnesses of mold.

>

> I guess that would be my beef with what is being put out there by the

> CDC. I don't want to see one other person unnecessarily have to go

> through what most of us on this board have had to go through.

>

> Sharon

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not sure...go on the Webmd website and type in mold exposure. That is where is

read it. What a one sided website. Paid by CDC I bet. :-)

Marcie

<toria@...> wrote:

OMG, MARCIE, WHOOOOOOOOOO DR BERNSTEIN? DO YOU REMEMBER HIS FIRST NAME? OR

, JUST MAYBE WHERE HE'S FROM?

THANKS!

VICTORIA

Re: [] Re: Redd, CDC

I got on the WebMd website and the doc says that you can't get sick from

mold.

I think his name was Dr. Bernstien. That's one website I won't revisit.

Marcie

Kathy <kathywnb@...> wrote:

Is this the news release you were referring to?

Health Officials Warn of Mold After Hurricanes

By , MedPage Today Staff Writer

Reviewed by Jasmer, MD; Assistant Professor of Medicine, University

of California, San Francisco

September 28, 2005

Also covered by: CNN, MSNBC, USA Today

Review

ATLANTA, Sept. 28-In the wake of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, health

officials are warning that conditions are right for explosive growth of

molds, with health consequences that can range from a runny nose to

full-blown pneumonia.

" The mold issue is something that will affect the entire Gulf Coast

region, but is going to be a particular problem in New Orleans because of

the flooding that occurred there and the duration of the flooding, " said

Redd, M.D., of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention here.

Ordinarily, molds can't grow in homes and other buildings because there

isn't enough moisture, Dr. Redd told a press briefing. " The conditions for

mold growth . are really optimal now, " he said.

He said the health consequences of mold exposure fall into three

categories:

Infections -- mostly a concern in people with suppressed immune

systems -- that can lead to such diseases as pneumonia and fungal sinusitis.

Allergic reactions, causing runny nose, itchy eyes, and in some cases

shortness of breath. In some circumstances, mold can produce toxins that are

dangerous if they're eaten or touched. (Some species of the mold

aspergillus, for instance, produce aflatoxins, which can cause liver

damage.)

A Louisiana health official said so far there hasn't been increase in

mold-related complaints in New Orleans, but that may reflect the fact that

few people have yet been allowed back into the stricken city.

" We haven't seen a spike, " said Fred Cerise, M.D., of the Louisiana

Department of Health and Hospitals. " But we are seeing some respiratory

symptoms -- cough, cold, and allergic-type symptoms -- and some rashes from

contact with the environment. "

While New Orleans hospitals are still out of action, he told the briefing,

three institutions in the surrounding area are able to take patients with

mold-related illnesses. " We haven't seen those hospitals reach capacity, " he

said, " and they have significant ability to ramp up should that be

required. "

Moreover, emergency aid stations have been set up in the city " and none of

them has been close to being overwhelmed, " he said. The spores that cause

mold need nutrients and moisture to grow, said Isham, laboratory

supervisor at the Center for Medical Mycology at the University Hospitals of

Cleveland.

Many of them can break down cellulose for food, meaning they can colonize

everything from an old cardboard box to the studs and rafters of a house,

Isham said in an interview.

Depending on the extent of the mold colony, home- and business-owners

might be faced with a huge clean-up job, said Anupma Dixit, Ph.D., of the

School of Public Health at St. Louis University in St. Louis, MO. " If you

have mold on drywall, for instance, the best solution might be to get rid of

the drywall, " Dr. Dixit said in an interview, and the same reasoning would

apply to insulation and wood studs.

Small colonies can be removed with a 10% solution of bleach, but anything

over about 10 square feet needs professional care, Environmental Protection

Agency spokesman told the press briefing. It's important to

get rid of mold as completely as possible, said Dr. Dixit, who studied the

aftermath of the 1993 Mississippi River floods, which saw 17,000 square

miles of land in nine states under water for several weeks.

" The flooding on the Gulf Coast has brought a lot of memories back, " Dr.

Dixit said.

One difference is that the Mississippi flooded land was mostly

agricultural, so relatively few buildings were affected, Dr. Dixit said.

Even so, when she studied the region later, a third of the once-flooded

buildings still had high levels of mold spores, despite intensive efforts at

renovation.

Dr. Dixit found that a third of the people who moved back into homes that

had been flooded saw allergy symptoms worsen.

" For allergy and asthma, the first line of defense is removal of the

allergen, " Dr. Dixit said; if the removal isn't complete, the symptoms won't

go away.

The most common indoor molds are Cladosporium, Penicillium, Aspergillus,

and Alternaria, according to the CDC, but flooding is likely to bring many

other species indoors, Dr. Dixit said.

The mold Stachybotrys chartarum -- which has been linked to pulmonary

bleeding in infants -- can also be found in buildings and homes. " While it

is less common than other mold species, it is not rare, " the CDC Web site

says.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

--------------------------------------

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/112/110516?src=RSS_PUBLIC

Short-term mold exposure is usually harmless for nonsusceptible people,

but those with underlying conditions should avoid moldy houses and

buildings, Redd said. Anyone doing demolition or large-scale cleanup work in

damp areas should use an M-95 mask to filter breathed air, he said.

---------------------------------

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

THANKS, MARCIE, I'LL DO THAT ASAP!

VICTORIA

Re: [] Re: Redd, CDC

>

>

> I got on the WebMd website and the doc says that you can't get sick from

> mold.

> I think his name was Dr. Bernstien. That's one website I won't revisit.

>

> Marcie

>

> Kathy <kathywnb@...> wrote:

> Is this the news release you were referring to?

>

> Health Officials Warn of Mold After Hurricanes

>

> By , MedPage Today Staff Writer

> Reviewed by Jasmer, MD; Assistant Professor of Medicine, University

> of California, San Francisco

> September 28, 2005

> Also covered by: CNN, MSNBC, USA Today

>

>

> Review

> ATLANTA, Sept. 28-In the wake of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, health

> officials are warning that conditions are right for explosive growth of

> molds, with health consequences that can range from a runny nose to

> full-blown pneumonia.

> " The mold issue is something that will affect the entire Gulf Coast

> region, but is going to be a particular problem in New Orleans because of

> the flooding that occurred there and the duration of the flooding, " said

> Redd, M.D., of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

> here.

> Ordinarily, molds can't grow in homes and other buildings because there

> isn't enough moisture, Dr. Redd told a press briefing. " The conditions for

> mold growth . are really optimal now, " he said.

> He said the health consequences of mold exposure fall into three

> categories:

> Infections -- mostly a concern in people with suppressed immune

> systems -- that can lead to such diseases as pneumonia and fungal

> sinusitis.

> Allergic reactions, causing runny nose, itchy eyes, and in some cases

> shortness of breath. In some circumstances, mold can produce toxins that

> are

> dangerous if they're eaten or touched. (Some species of the mold

> aspergillus, for instance, produce aflatoxins, which can cause liver

> damage.)

> A Louisiana health official said so far there hasn't been increase in

> mold-related complaints in New Orleans, but that may reflect the fact that

> few people have yet been allowed back into the stricken city.

> " We haven't seen a spike, " said Fred Cerise, M.D., of the Louisiana

> Department of Health and Hospitals. " But we are seeing some respiratory

> symptoms -- cough, cold, and allergic-type symptoms -- and some rashes

> from

> contact with the environment. "

> While New Orleans hospitals are still out of action, he told the

> briefing,

> three institutions in the surrounding area are able to take patients with

> mold-related illnesses. " We haven't seen those hospitals reach capacity, "

> he

> said, " and they have significant ability to ramp up should that be

> required. "

> Moreover, emergency aid stations have been set up in the city " and none

> of

> them has been close to being overwhelmed, " he said. The spores that cause

> mold need nutrients and moisture to grow, said Isham, laboratory

> supervisor at the Center for Medical Mycology at the University Hospitals

> of

> Cleveland.

> Many of them can break down cellulose for food, meaning they can colonize

> everything from an old cardboard box to the studs and rafters of a house,

> Isham said in an interview.

> Depending on the extent of the mold colony, home- and business-owners

> might be faced with a huge clean-up job, said Anupma Dixit, Ph.D., of the

> School of Public Health at St. Louis University in St. Louis, MO. " If you

> have mold on drywall, for instance, the best solution might be to get rid

> of

> the drywall, " Dr. Dixit said in an interview, and the same reasoning would

> apply to insulation and wood studs.

> Small colonies can be removed with a 10% solution of bleach, but anything

> over about 10 square feet needs professional care, Environmental

> Protection

> Agency spokesman told the press briefing. It's important to

> get rid of mold as completely as possible, said Dr. Dixit, who studied the

> aftermath of the 1993 Mississippi River floods, which saw 17,000 square

> miles of land in nine states under water for several weeks.

> " The flooding on the Gulf Coast has brought a lot of memories back, " Dr.

> Dixit said.

> One difference is that the Mississippi flooded land was mostly

> agricultural, so relatively few buildings were affected, Dr. Dixit said.

> Even so, when she studied the region later, a third of the once-flooded

> buildings still had high levels of mold spores, despite intensive efforts

> at

> renovation.

> Dr. Dixit found that a third of the people who moved back into homes that

> had been flooded saw allergy symptoms worsen.

> " For allergy and asthma, the first line of defense is removal of the

> allergen, " Dr. Dixit said; if the removal isn't complete, the symptoms

> won't

> go away.

> The most common indoor molds are Cladosporium, Penicillium, Aspergillus,

> and Alternaria, according to the CDC, but flooding is likely to bring many

> other species indoors, Dr. Dixit said.

> The mold Stachybotrys chartarum -- which has been linked to pulmonary

> bleeding in infants -- can also be found in buildings and homes. " While it

> is less common than other mold species, it is not rare, " the CDC Web site

> says.

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

--------------------------------------

> http://my.webmd.com/content/article/112/110516?src=RSS_PUBLIC

>

> Short-term mold exposure is usually harmless for nonsusceptible people,

> but those with underlying conditions should avoid moldy houses and

> buildings, Redd said. Anyone doing demolition or large-scale cleanup work

> in

> damp areas should use an M-95 mask to filter breathed air, he said.

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

>

>

[Guest guest]

IT WAS DR JONATHAN BERNSTEIN.....NOT WHO I THOUGHT IT WAS, MARCIE, THANKS.

VICTORIA

Re: [] Re: Redd, CDC

>

>

> I got on the WebMd website and the doc says that you can't get sick from

> mold.

> I think his name was Dr. Bernstien. That's one website I won't revisit.

>

> Marcie

>

> Kathy <kathywnb@...> wrote:

> Is this the news release you were referring to?

>

> Health Officials Warn of Mold After Hurricanes

>

> By , MedPage Today Staff Writer

> Reviewed by Jasmer, MD; Assistant Professor of Medicine, University

> of California, San Francisco

> September 28, 2005

> Also covered by: CNN, MSNBC, USA Today

>

>

> Review

> ATLANTA, Sept. 28-In the wake of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, health

> officials are warning that conditions are right for explosive growth of

> molds, with health consequences that can range from a runny nose to

> full-blown pneumonia.

> " The mold issue is something that will affect the entire Gulf Coast

> region, but is going to be a particular problem in New Orleans because of

> the flooding that occurred there and the duration of the flooding, " said

> Redd, M.D., of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

> here.

> Ordinarily, molds can't grow in homes and other buildings because there

> isn't enough moisture, Dr. Redd told a press briefing. " The conditions for

> mold growth . are really optimal now, " he said.

> He said the health consequences of mold exposure fall into three

> categories:

> Infections -- mostly a concern in people with suppressed immune

> systems -- that can lead to such diseases as pneumonia and fungal

> sinusitis.

> Allergic reactions, causing runny nose, itchy eyes, and in some cases

> shortness of breath. In some circumstances, mold can produce toxins that

> are

> dangerous if they're eaten or touched. (Some species of the mold

> aspergillus, for instance, produce aflatoxins, which can cause liver

> damage.)

> A Louisiana health official said so far there hasn't been increase in

> mold-related complaints in New Orleans, but that may reflect the fact that

> few people have yet been allowed back into the stricken city.

> " We haven't seen a spike, " said Fred Cerise, M.D., of the Louisiana

> Department of Health and Hospitals. " But we are seeing some respiratory

> symptoms -- cough, cold, and allergic-type symptoms -- and some rashes

> from

> contact with the environment. "

> While New Orleans hospitals are still out of action, he told the

> briefing,

> three institutions in the surrounding area are able to take patients with

> mold-related illnesses. " We haven't seen those hospitals reach capacity, "

> he

> said, " and they have significant ability to ramp up should that be

> required. "

> Moreover, emergency aid stations have been set up in the city " and none

> of

> them has been close to being overwhelmed, " he said. The spores that cause

> mold need nutrients and moisture to grow, said Isham, laboratory

> supervisor at the Center for Medical Mycology at the University Hospitals

> of

> Cleveland.

> Many of them can break down cellulose for food, meaning they can colonize

> everything from an old cardboard box to the studs and rafters of a house,

> Isham said in an interview.

> Depending on the extent of the mold colony, home- and business-owners

> might be faced with a huge clean-up job, said Anupma Dixit, Ph.D., of the

> School of Public Health at St. Louis University in St. Louis, MO. " If you

> have mold on drywall, for instance, the best solution might be to get rid

> of

> the drywall, " Dr. Dixit said in an interview, and the same reasoning would

> apply to insulation and wood studs.

> Small colonies can be removed with a 10% solution of bleach, but anything

> over about 10 square feet needs professional care, Environmental

> Protection

> Agency spokesman told the press briefing. It's important to

> get rid of mold as completely as possible, said Dr. Dixit, who studied the

> aftermath of the 1993 Mississippi River floods, which saw 17,000 square

> miles of land in nine states under water for several weeks.

> " The flooding on the Gulf Coast has brought a lot of memories back, " Dr.

> Dixit said.

> One difference is that the Mississippi flooded land was mostly

> agricultural, so relatively few buildings were affected, Dr. Dixit said.

> Even so, when she studied the region later, a third of the once-flooded

> buildings still had high levels of mold spores, despite intensive efforts

> at

> renovation.

> Dr. Dixit found that a third of the people who moved back into homes that

> had been flooded saw allergy symptoms worsen.

> " For allergy and asthma, the first line of defense is removal of the

> allergen, " Dr. Dixit said; if the removal isn't complete, the symptoms

> won't

> go away.

> The most common indoor molds are Cladosporium, Penicillium, Aspergillus,

> and Alternaria, according to the CDC, but flooding is likely to bring many

> other species indoors, Dr. Dixit said.

> The mold Stachybotrys chartarum -- which has been linked to pulmonary

> bleeding in infants -- can also be found in buildings and homes. " While it

> is less common than other mold species, it is not rare, " the CDC Web site

> says.

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

--------------------------------------

> http://my.webmd.com/content/article/112/110516?src=RSS_PUBLIC

>

> Short-term mold exposure is usually harmless for nonsusceptible people,

> but those with underlying conditions should avoid moldy houses and

> buildings, Redd said. Anyone doing demolition or large-scale cleanup work

> in

> damp areas should use an M-95 mask to filter breathed air, he said.

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Okay guys...leaving the library. Starting to feel like I am going to pass out.

Need to get home.

Love you all,

Later,

Marcie

<toria@...> wrote:

THANKS, MARCIE, I'LL DO THAT ASAP!

VICTORIA

Re: [] Re: Redd, CDC

>

>

> I got on the WebMd website and the doc says that you can't get sick from

> mold.

> I think his name was Dr. Bernstien. That's one website I won't revisit.

>

> Marcie

>

> Kathy <kathywnb@...> wrote:

> Is this the news release you were referring to?

>

> Health Officials Warn of Mold After Hurricanes

>

> By , MedPage Today Staff Writer

> Reviewed by Jasmer, MD; Assistant Professor of Medicine, University

> of California, San Francisco

> September 28, 2005

> Also covered by: CNN, MSNBC, USA Today

>

>

> Review

> ATLANTA, Sept. 28-In the wake of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, health

> officials are warning that conditions are right for explosive growth of

> molds, with health consequences that can range from a runny nose to

> full-blown pneumonia.

> " The mold issue is something that will affect the entire Gulf Coast

> region, but is going to be a particular problem in New Orleans because of

> the flooding that occurred there and the duration of the flooding, " said

> Redd, M.D., of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

> here.

> Ordinarily, molds can't grow in homes and other buildings because there

> isn't enough moisture, Dr. Redd told a press briefing. " The conditions for

> mold growth . are really optimal now, " he said.

> He said the health consequences of mold exposure fall into three

> categories:

> Infections -- mostly a concern in people with suppressed immune

> systems -- that can lead to such diseases as pneumonia and fungal

> sinusitis.

> Allergic reactions, causing runny nose, itchy eyes, and in some cases

> shortness of breath. In some circumstances, mold can produce toxins that

> are

> dangerous if they're eaten or touched. (Some species of the mold

> aspergillus, for instance, produce aflatoxins, which can cause liver

> damage.)

> A Louisiana health official said so far there hasn't been increase in

> mold-related complaints in New Orleans, but that may reflect the fact that

> few people have yet been allowed back into the stricken city.

> " We haven't seen a spike, " said Fred Cerise, M.D., of the Louisiana

> Department of Health and Hospitals. " But we are seeing some respiratory

> symptoms -- cough, cold, and allergic-type symptoms -- and some rashes

> from

> contact with the environment. "

> While New Orleans hospitals are still out of action, he told the

> briefing,

> three institutions in the surrounding area are able to take patients with

> mold-related illnesses. " We haven't seen those hospitals reach capacity, "

> he

> said, " and they have significant ability to ramp up should that be

> required. "

> Moreover, emergency aid stations have been set up in the city " and none

> of

> them has been close to being overwhelmed, " he said. The spores that cause

> mold need nutrients and moisture to grow, said Isham, laboratory

> supervisor at the Center for Medical Mycology at the University Hospitals

> of

> Cleveland.

> Many of them can break down cellulose for food, meaning they can colonize

> everything from an old cardboard box to the studs and rafters of a house,

> Isham said in an interview.

> Depending on the extent of the mold colony, home- and business-owners

> might be faced with a huge clean-up job, said Anupma Dixit, Ph.D., of the

> School of Public Health at St. Louis University in St. Louis, MO. " If you

> have mold on drywall, for instance, the best solution might be to get rid

> of

> the drywall, " Dr. Dixit said in an interview, and the same reasoning would

> apply to insulation and wood studs.

> Small colonies can be removed with a 10% solution of bleach, but anything

> over about 10 square feet needs professional care, Environmental

> Protection

> Agency spokesman told the press briefing. It's important to

> get rid of mold as completely as possible, said Dr. Dixit, who studied the

> aftermath of the 1993 Mississippi River floods, which saw 17,000 square

> miles of land in nine states under water for several weeks.

> " The flooding on the Gulf Coast has brought a lot of memories back, " Dr.

> Dixit said.

> One difference is that the Mississippi flooded land was mostly

> agricultural, so relatively few buildings were affected, Dr. Dixit said.

> Even so, when she studied the region later, a third of the once-flooded

> buildings still had high levels of mold spores, despite intensive efforts

> at

> renovation.

> Dr. Dixit found that a third of the people who moved back into homes that

> had been flooded saw allergy symptoms worsen.

> " For allergy and asthma, the first line of defense is removal of the

> allergen, " Dr. Dixit said; if the removal isn't complete, the symptoms

> won't

> go away.

> The most common indoor molds are Cladosporium, Penicillium, Aspergillus,

> and Alternaria, according to the CDC, but flooding is likely to bring many

> other species indoors, Dr. Dixit said.

> The mold Stachybotrys chartarum -- which has been linked to pulmonary

> bleeding in infants -- can also be found in buildings and homes. " While it

> is less common than other mold species, it is not rare, " the CDC Web site

> says.

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

--------------------------------------

> http://my.webmd.com/content/article/112/110516?src=RSS_PUBLIC

>

> Short-term mold exposure is usually harmless for nonsusceptible people,

> but those with underlying conditions should avoid moldy houses and

> buildings, Redd said. Anyone doing demolition or large-scale cleanup work

> in

> damp areas should use an M-95 mask to filter breathed air, he said.

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Carl,

Traitor, I would never think that. Now if you tried selling me an

air purifier that does not use filters, I may have a problem. lol

You always raise many good points and I'm not throwing the baby out

with the bathwater. Just trying to pull the plug and drain the

contaminated water.

The problem is and has been, the CDC, IOM & ACOEM claim that there

is not sufficient evidence concerning the effects of inhalation of

mold toxins. I think we all disagree, even with it being right under

their nose, literally. The have the tracking programs already setup

for health related issues, and have for years, but refuse to use

them.There is, Sufficient Evidence of an Association, and it would

not take much since the research has already been done to convience

them of this type of exposure. All the consumers that have been

affected by these toxins, or claim they have been affected, all they

would have to do is look at their medical records before and after

exposure. How difficult is that! They would find that many of us

were healthy, had very few visits to the ER or their general

physicians for except a general check up. Now it's a whole different

story.

All of these symptoms just mysteriously appeared for no known

reason, (according to them)just out of thin air. It's strange how we

can all experience many of the exact same symptoms, no matter how

off the wall they may seem. But yet, they can't give us any definate

cause for these symptoms. Yet, they can give us a definate answer

that mold does not cause these problems. How would they know that?

They are not even aware of all the mold and fungi in our

environment, many have not been named or discovered. They definately

do not know of all the mycotoxins they are capable of producing and

the effects it has on our health or our environment. Or do they???

They may be aware of aflatoxins, T2 toxins, satratoxins and several

others and how they can affect our everyday health, each

individually. But how do they affect us when exposed to all of these

in this toxic soup. Correct me if I am wrong please. Stachybotrys

produces 170 different toxins and neurotoxins that they are aware

of, aspergillus about 100, over 200 different types of aspergillus,

alternia 80 different toxins, penicillium about 100 and this is just

to name a few. So why is our medical community having such a

difficult time understanding this?

Speaking with the CDC several times they claim they are doing NO

RESEARCH and don't plan on it. But yet, in some of their articles

they claim they are. Are they that confused, that the left hand does

not know what the right one is doing?

Does this truly mean that they are more interested in the

shareholders and big industry than human health? Is that what they

were hired for and the positions they hold now? They must have

realized by now how stupid they really look. The CDC and our medical

community was someone we all used to look up to and just about

believed whatever came out of their mouths. The opinions of the

American public no longer holds true to that.

What more of a reason could there be to start an independent

investigation? Fraud, at it's highest level, where many lives are at

stake....

KC

> > >

> > > Hey,

> > >

> > > Do you all remember back a few weeks ago, when Dr. Redd gave a

> > public

> > > interview regarding the known effects of mold. It was a

health

> > warning (lol) for

> > > those returning to New Orleans.

> > >

> > > I can't find it. Does anybody know where to find that

verbatum

> > info?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Sharon

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Carl, Thanks for the response. I am highly reactive do long exposure of molds

from work & remediation chemical exposure. I tried to professionally clean my

couch & now I can't sit on it because I have nerve reactions & head explosions.

Questions for anyone:

1. When you kill the mold, do the mycotoxins float in the air or do they fall

to the ground? How do get rid of mycotoxins after the kill???

2. What product would you use on wood furniture to kill mold?

3. Are the molds lurking on the paint?If so, what do you use to kill them on

paint??

4. It's starting to get cold so I will need to turn on the HVAC system. I am

dreading this. I have a pot shelve in the bedroom that has years of dust on it.

So as to not wisk the mold into the entire house what would be the protocol

here. Could I spray Lysol mold spray first to kill the mold & then vacuum it up.

Would that work?????

5. Do the room air purifiers take the mold out of the air? I have a Friedrich

which was consumers report pick last year & I can't tell if it is working. The

inside collection plate does not have any dust on it after 6 mos of use.

Thanks for the help, Loni

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

Loni,

It depends. Don't you just love a definitive answer like that?

We can take a clue from the IICRC S520 Standard and Reference Guide

for Professional Mold Remediation. If we look at the obvious at both

extremes we can say that a simple surface that is hard and smooth can

be cleaned with soap and water to remove any dirt, mold growth,

bacteria, etc. So try. But it may not be successful for the highly

reactive individuals.

At the other extreme we can say that complex structures with nooks

and crannies that are hard-to-nearly-impossible to clean have little

chance of success. Likewise, rough surfaces that are porous like

fabric that have mold growth would be nearly impossible. So don't

try. If the mold has merely settled onto the surface like dust, then

maybe.

So what about all the objects that aren't obvious, with mixed

characteristics? It depends. They may take 2, 3 or more cleaning

attempts and still not be successful. By that time is usually cheaper

to replace it anyway. Some will be cleaned sufficiently for a typical

person, a few might be for a sensitive person, and some never for a

highly reactive person.

Decide on the obvious and then make choices about all those in the

middle. Is their inherent or perceived value worth the risk of

spending money on a failure? Are you so sensitive that the chance of

success is zero? Someone recently posted about how to clean their

art. There are specialists for that but is so expensive the art has

to be extremely valuable. Most of these answers won't be known for

sure until you try it. What is the risk with your circumstances?

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> So are you saying throw away desks, wood furniture, sofas etc. Can

> they not be cleaned? Loni

>

> snk1955@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/15/2005 12:22:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> grimes@... writes:

>

> KC and Sharon,

>

> At the risk of sounding like a traitor, don't throw the baby out with

> the bathwater. There is a lot of excellent information in this

> briefing, especially the warning against unnecessary testing and being

> careful about remediators. I also like the statement that if it is

> porous and moldy, throw it out instead of trying to clean it. Wonder

> what the insurance adjustors think of that?

>

> I also like that the EPA guy specifically mentions that they include

> data that would be applicable to those with greater sensitivity. At

> least it's a start.

>

> What I do disagree with, is they don't go far enough in explaining

> that public health is not the same as individual health. Therefore,

> what they deem as overall acceptable to the " general public " may not

> be for a specific individual. That would remove some of the support

> to the naysayers.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > Is this i

> >

> > FEMA Announcements Last Updated: Sep 29th, 2005 - 07:29:19

> >

> >

> > http://communitydispatch.com/artman/publish/article_2249.shtml

>

>

> Hey Carl,

>

> You are one who could never, ever be considered a traitor in the fight

> to help mold victims! And in reality, why should there be traitors

> to this issue at all? Whether one is most concerned about the

> physical impact of this issue or if one is most concerned about the

> financial impact of this issue....this issue is uselessly wasting

> many lives and much money.

>

> It is beyond me, why this even is an issue. Seems like all would want

> to do everything possible to move the science forward.

>

> There is some good information in this doc. But what is glaringly

> missing from the CDC is the acknowledgement that molds and mold toxins

> can produce severe, life threatening illnesses in prior healthly

> people. And there in, lays the heart of all the contention of the

> " Toxic Mold Issue " .

>

> Numerous times within the more comprehensive mold doc that was

> recently written the CDC makes statesment of " rare, little is known,

> in a small segment of the population, etc " .

>

> The illnesses we are all experiencing are not mere IgE mediated minor

> allergies, yet that is the only place where the CDC has focused any

> research for those who are immunocompetent. Still they continue to

> make statesment of the rarity of our illnesses.

>

> We have asked numerous times that they track these symptoms indicative

> of serious Type III hypersensitivity reactions and mycotoxicoses. To

> date, they have taken no action to do so.

>

> So, the statements of rarity of these illnesses in prior healthy

> people is not based on any scientific evidence....it is anecdotal

> information being presented by the CDC as sound science. It is

> making it difficult for those who are experiencing these illnesses to

> find proper medical care. And it is hurting us all, physically and

> financially.

>

> Those who are currently being exposed to excessive amounts of mold

> after Katrina, yet are not immunocompromised, are being left wide

> open by the CDC to acquire serious mold and mold toxin induced

> illneses. They are being told, runny noses, minor coughs, etc. All

> of us on this board know that is not true and accurate

> information...as does the CDC. Whether they want to call it rare or

> not rare based on some fictious study of numbers of those affected,

> they know it does happen and they are not properly warning people of

> the potentially serious illnesses of mold.

>

> I guess that would be my beef with what is being put out there by the

> CDC. I don't want to see one other person unnecessarily have to go

> through what most of us on this board have had to go through.

>

> Sharon

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It has been well known for years that stuffed furniture cannot be cleaned enough

for a

sensitized person. many doctors have confirmed this for me over the years. If it

can be put

in a washing machine, maybe, depending on your sensitivity and/or what it toxing

the

couch.

Some people have cleaned and sealed wood and have had luck with it, others, not.

Some

put things into storage, and after some years (4 or 5) they die down enough for

them to

try using them. I wonder if we have a file for cleaning things- with ideas and

recipes, etc...

> In a message dated 11/15/2005 12:22:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> grimes@h... writes:

>

> KC and Sharon,

>

> At the risk of sounding like a traitor, don't throw the baby out with

> the bathwater. There is a lot of excellent information in this

> briefing, especially the warning against unnecessary testing and

> being careful about remediators. I also like the statement that if it

> is porous and moldy, throw it out instead of trying to clean it.

> Wonder what the insurance adjustors think of that?

>

> I also like that the EPA guy specifically mentions that they include

> data that would be applicable to those with greater sensitivity. At

> least it's a start.

>

> What I do disagree with, is they don't go far enough in explaining

> that public health is not the same as individual health. Therefore,

> what they deem as overall acceptable to the " general public " may not

> be for a specific individual. That would remove some of the support

> to the naysayers.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > Is this i

> >

> > FEMA Announcements Last Updated: Sep 29th, 2005 - 07:29:19

> >

> >

> > http://communitydispatch.com/artman/publish/article_2249.shtml

>

>

> Hey Carl,

>

> You are one who could never, ever be considered a traitor in the fight to

> help mold victims! And in reality, why should there be traitors to this

issue

> at all? Whether one is most concerned about the physical impact of this

> issue or if one is most concerned about the financial impact of this

> issue....this issue is uselessly wasting many lives and much money.

>

> It is beyond me, why this even is an issue. Seems like all would want to do

> everything possible to move the science forward.

>

> There is some good information in this doc. But what is glaringly missing

> from the CDC is the acknowledgement that molds and mold toxins can produce

> severe, life threatening illnesses in prior healthly people. And there in,

lays

> the heart of all the contention of the " Toxic Mold Issue " .

>

> Numerous times within the more comprehensive mold doc that was recently

> written the CDC makes statesment of " rare, little is known, in a small segment

of

> the population, etc " .

>

> The illnesses we are all experiencing are not mere IgE mediated minor

> allergies, yet that is the only place where the CDC has focused any research

for

> those who are immunocompetent. Still they continue to make statesment of the

> rarity of our illnesses.

>

> We have asked numerous times that they track these symptoms indicative of

> serious Type III hypersensitivity reactions and mycotoxicoses. To date, they

> have taken no action to do so.

>

> So, the statements of rarity of these illnesses in prior healthy people is

> not based on any scientific evidence....it is anecdotal information being

> presented by the CDC as sound science. It is making it difficult for those

who

> are experiencing these illnesses to find proper medical care. And it is

> hurting us all, physically and financially.

>

> Those who are currently being exposed to excessive amounts of mold after

> Katrina, yet are not immunocompromised, are being left wide open by the CDC to

> acquire serious mold and mold toxin induced illneses. They are being told,

> runny noses, minor coughs, etc. All of us on this board know that is not

true

> and accurate information...as does the CDC. Whether they want to call it rare

> or not rare based on some fictious study of numbers of those affected, they

> know it does happen and they are not properly warning people of the

> potentially serious illnesses of mold.

>

> I guess that would be my beef with what is being put out there by the CDC. I

> don't want to see one other person unnecessarily have to go through what most

> of us on this board have had to go through.

>

> Sharon

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Consider that if you have problems with fragrances and cleaning

products, the original problem with mold - even if it has been

removed sufficiently - may have been replaced by the cleaning agent.

This is especially true if you were reacting to the VOCs from the

mold. The fragrances are VOCs also.

All the ideas and processes the others and I offer must still be

verified by EACH INDIVIDUAL. What works for one may not be sufficient

for another. Likewise, what makes one person ill may be a life-saver

for another.

Get the best information you can find and and can trust to make a

choice on what your are going to do. Then do it. But it's not like

the Nike slogan of " Just do it! " where you dive into the shallow end

of an empty swimming pool. We need preparation first, experimentation

next and then communication. Wish it were different.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Thanks for the response. My couch was cleaned & is making me sick.

> Would the mold from the couch be emitting into the air still do you

> think? So maybe pillow covers can be washed? Loni

>

> kl_clayton <kl_clayton@...> wrote: It has been well known for

> years that stuffed furniture cannot be cleaned enough for a sensitized

> person. many doctors have confirmed this for me over the years. If it

> can be put in a washing machine, maybe, depending on your sensitivity

> and/or what it toxing the couch.

>

> Some people have cleaned and sealed wood and have had luck with it,

> others, not. Some put things into storage, and after some years (4 or

> 5) they die down enough for them to try using them. I wonder if we

> have a file for cleaning things- with ideas and recipes, etc...

>

> > In a message dated 11/15/2005 12:22:17 AM

> Pacific Standard Time, > grimes@h... writes: > > KC and Sharon, > >

> At the risk of sounding like a traitor, don't throw the baby out with

> > the bathwater. There is a lot of excellent information in this >

> briefing, especially the warning against unnecessary testing and >

> being careful about remediators. I also like the statement that if it

> > is porous and moldy, throw it out instead of trying to clean it. >

> Wonder what the insurance adjustors think of that? > > I also like

> that the EPA guy specifically mentions that they include > data that

> would be applicable to those with greater sensitivity. At > least

> it's a start. > > What I do disagree with, is they don't go far

> enough in explaining > that public health is not the same as

> individual health. Therefore, > what they deem as overall acceptable

> to the " general public " may not > be for a specific individual. That

> would remove some of the support > to the naysayers. > > Carl Grimes

> > Healthy Habitats LLC > > ----- > > Is this i > > > > FEMA

> Announcements Last Updated: Sep 29th, 2005 - 07:29:19 > > > > > >

> http://communitydispatch.com/artman/publish/article_2249.shtml > > >

> Hey Carl, > > You are one who could never, ever be considered a

> traitor in the fight to > help mold victims! And in reality, why

> should there be traitors to this issue > at all? Whether one is most

> concerned about the physical impact of this > issue or if one is most

> concerned about the financial impact of this > issue....this issue is

> uselessly wasting many lives and much money. > > It is beyond me, why

> this even is an issue. Seems like all would want to do > everything

> possible to move the science forward. > > There is some good

> information in this doc. But what is glaringly missing > from the

> CDC is the acknowledgement that molds and mold toxins can produce >

> severe, life threatening illnesses in prior healthly people. And

> there in, lays > the heart of all the contention of the " Toxic Mold

> Issue " . > > Numerous times within the more comprehensive mold doc that

> was recently > written the CDC makes statesment of " rare, little is

> known, in a small segment of > the population, etc " . > > The

> illnesses we are all experiencing are not mere IgE mediated minor >

> allergies, yet that is the only place where the CDC has focused any

> research for > those who are immunocompetent. Still they continue to

> make statesment of the > rarity of our illnesses. > > We have asked

> numerous times that they track these symptoms indicative of > serious

> Type III hypersensitivity reactions and mycotoxicoses. To date, they

> > have taken no action to do so. > > So, the statements of rarity of

> these illnesses in prior healthy people is > not based on any

> scientific evidence....it is anecdotal information being > presented

> by the CDC as sound science. It is making it difficult for those who

> > are experiencing these illnesses to find proper medical care. And

> it is > hurting us all, physically and financially. > > Those who are

> currently being exposed to excessive amounts of mold after > Katrina,

> yet are not immunocompromised, are being left wide open by the CDC to

> > acquire serious mold and mold toxin induced illneses. They are

> being told, > runny noses, minor coughs, etc. All of us on this

> board know that is not true > and accurate information...as does the

> CDC. Whether they want to call it rare > or not rare based on some

> fictious study of numbers of those affected, they > know it does

> happen and they are not properly warning people of the > potentially

> serious illnesses of mold. > > I guess that would be my beef with what

> is being put out there by the CDC. I > don't want to see one other

> person unnecessarily have to go through what most > of us on this

> board have had to go through. > > Sharon > > > > [Non-text portions of

> this message have been removed] > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > > >

> >

[Guest guest]

Sounds like you already got your answer by your reactions. If you think about it

for

aminute, there is a porous object sitting there, soaking in what ever is in your

air. Mold,

dust, etc. Then you get it wet- yikes! The mold spores that were dormant, just

go to town.

Yum, everything they need to really get going. Not to mention the chemicals

from the

cleaning- anything that kills mold makes me sick too. I do wash my couch covers

from

time to time. And the couch is so big you couldn't kill all the mold anyway.

I think any stuffed furniture that is very old is gong to have some mold in it,

just stands to

reason.

Good luck with everything.

> > In a message dated 11/15/2005 12:22:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> > grimes@h... writes:

> >

> > KC and Sharon,

> >

> > At the risk of sounding like a traitor, don't throw the baby out with

> > the bathwater. There is a lot of excellent information in this

> > briefing, especially the warning against unnecessary testing and

> > being careful about remediators. I also like the statement that if it

> > is porous and moldy, throw it out instead of trying to clean it.

> > Wonder what the insurance adjustors think of that?

> >

> > I also like that the EPA guy specifically mentions that they include

> > data that would be applicable to those with greater sensitivity. At

> > least it's a start.

> >

> > What I do disagree with, is they don't go far enough in explaining

> > that public health is not the same as individual health. Therefore,

> > what they deem as overall acceptable to the " general public " may not

> > be for a specific individual. That would remove some of the support

> > to the naysayers.

> >

> > Carl Grimes

> > Healthy Habitats LLC

> >

> > -----

> > > Is this i

> > >

> > > FEMA Announcements Last Updated: Sep 29th, 2005 - 07:29:19

> > >

> > >

> > > http://communitydispatch.com/artman/publish/article_2249.shtml

> >

> >

> > Hey Carl,

> >

> > You are one who could never, ever be considered a traitor in the fight to

> > help mold victims! And in reality, why should there be traitors to this

issue

> > at all? Whether one is most concerned about the physical impact of this

> > issue or if one is most concerned about the financial impact of this

> > issue....this issue is uselessly wasting many lives and much money.

> >

> > It is beyond me, why this even is an issue. Seems like all would want to

do

> > everything possible to move the science forward.

> >

> > There is some good information in this doc. But what is glaringly missing

> > from the CDC is the acknowledgement that molds and mold toxins can produce

> > severe, life threatening illnesses in prior healthly people. And there in,

lays

> > the heart of all the contention of the " Toxic Mold Issue " .

> >

> > Numerous times within the more comprehensive mold doc that was recently

> > written the CDC makes statesment of " rare, little is known, in a small

segment of

> > the population, etc " .

> >

> > The illnesses we are all experiencing are not mere IgE mediated minor

> > allergies, yet that is the only place where the CDC has focused any research

for

> > those who are immunocompetent. Still they continue to make statesment of

the

> > rarity of our illnesses.

> >

> > We have asked numerous times that they track these symptoms indicative of

> > serious Type III hypersensitivity reactions and mycotoxicoses. To date,

they

> > have taken no action to do so.

> >

> > So, the statements of rarity of these illnesses in prior healthy people is

> > not based on any scientific evidence....it is anecdotal information being

> > presented by the CDC as sound science. It is making it difficult for those

who

> > are experiencing these illnesses to find proper medical care. And it is

> > hurting us all, physically and financially.

> >

> > Those who are currently being exposed to excessive amounts of mold after

> > Katrina, yet are not immunocompromised, are being left wide open by the CDC

to

> > acquire serious mold and mold toxin induced illneses. They are being told,

> > runny noses, minor coughs, etc. All of us on this board know that is not

true

> > and accurate information...as does the CDC. Whether they want to call it

rare

> > or not rare based on some fictious study of numbers of those affected, they

> > know it does happen and they are not properly warning people of the

> > potentially serious illnesses of mold.

> >

> > I guess that would be my beef with what is being put out there by the CDC.

I

> > don't want to see one other person unnecessarily have to go through what

most

> > of us on this board have had to go through.

> >

> > Sharon

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Carl, thanks for this reply.The risk of my circumstance is that I may have

cancer. Having a biopsy so it is important to have a clean home. I'm trying to

get this done before my biopsy. I only have one air purifier & it is apparantly

not very good because it is not HEPA. I'm pretty stressed & because my husband

is not sensitive to mold, he does not buy or understand. Loni

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote: Loni,

It depends. Don't you just love a definitive answer like that?

We can take a clue from the IICRC S520 Standard and Reference Guide

for Professional Mold Remediation. If we look at the obvious at both

extremes we can say that a simple surface that is hard and smooth can

be cleaned with soap and water to remove any dirt, mold growth,

bacteria, etc. So try. But it may not be successful for the highly

reactive individuals.

At the other extreme we can say that complex structures with nooks

and crannies that are hard-to-nearly-impossible to clean have little

chance of success. Likewise, rough surfaces that are porous like

fabric that have mold growth would be nearly impossible. So don't

try. If the mold has merely settled onto the surface like dust, then

maybe.

So what about all the objects that aren't obvious, with mixed

characteristics? It depends. They may take 2, 3 or more cleaning

attempts and still not be successful. By that time is usually cheaper

to replace it anyway. Some will be cleaned sufficiently for a typical

person, a few might be for a sensitive person, and some never for a

highly reactive person.

Decide on the obvious and then make choices about all those in the

middle. Is their inherent or perceived value worth the risk of

spending money on a failure? Are you so sensitive that the chance of

success is zero? Someone recently posted about how to clean their

art. There are specialists for that but is so expensive the art has

to be extremely valuable. Most of these answers won't be known for

sure until you try it. What is the risk with your circumstances?

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> So are you saying throw away desks, wood furniture, sofas etc. Can

> they not be cleaned? Loni

>

> snk1955@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/15/2005 12:22:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> grimes@... writes:

>

> KC and Sharon,

>

> At the risk of sounding like a traitor, don't throw the baby out with

> the bathwater. There is a lot of excellent information in this

> briefing, especially the warning against unnecessary testing and being

> careful about remediators. I also like the statement that if it is

> porous and moldy, throw it out instead of trying to clean it. Wonder

> what the insurance adjustors think of that?

>

> I also like that the EPA guy specifically mentions that they include

> data that would be applicable to those with greater sensitivity. At

> least it's a start.

>

> What I do disagree with, is they don't go far enough in explaining

> that public health is not the same as individual health. Therefore,

> what they deem as overall acceptable to the " general public " may not

> be for a specific individual. That would remove some of the support

> to the naysayers.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > Is this i

> >

> > FEMA Announcements Last Updated: Sep 29th, 2005 - 07:29:19

> >

> >

> > http://communitydispatch.com/artman/publish/article_2249.shtml

>

>

> Hey Carl,

>

> You are one who could never, ever be considered a traitor in the fight

> to help mold victims! And in reality, why should there be traitors

> to this issue at all? Whether one is most concerned about the

> physical impact of this issue or if one is most concerned about the

> financial impact of this issue....this issue is uselessly wasting

> many lives and much money.

>

> It is beyond me, why this even is an issue. Seems like all would want

> to do everything possible to move the science forward.

>

> There is some good information in this doc. But what is glaringly

> missing from the CDC is the acknowledgement that molds and mold toxins

> can produce severe, life threatening illnesses in prior healthly

> people. And there in, lays the heart of all the contention of the

> " Toxic Mold Issue " .

>

> Numerous times within the more comprehensive mold doc that was

> recently written the CDC makes statesment of " rare, little is known,

> in a small segment of the population, etc " .

>

> The illnesses we are all experiencing are not mere IgE mediated minor

> allergies, yet that is the only place where the CDC has focused any

> research for those who are immunocompetent. Still they continue to

> make statesment of the rarity of our illnesses.

>

> We have asked numerous times that they track these symptoms indicative

> of serious Type III hypersensitivity reactions and mycotoxicoses. To

> date, they have taken no action to do so.

>

> So, the statements of rarity of these illnesses in prior healthy

> people is not based on any scientific evidence....it is anecdotal

> information being presented by the CDC as sound science. It is

> making it difficult for those who are experiencing these illnesses to

> find proper medical care. And it is hurting us all, physically and

> financially.

>

> Those who are currently being exposed to excessive amounts of mold

> after Katrina, yet are not immunocompromised, are being left wide

> open by the CDC to acquire serious mold and mold toxin induced

> illneses. They are being told, runny noses, minor coughs, etc. All

> of us on this board know that is not true and accurate

> information...as does the CDC. Whether they want to call it rare or

> not rare based on some fictious study of numbers of those affected,

> they know it does happen and they are not properly warning people of

> the potentially serious illnesses of mold.

>

> I guess that would be my beef with what is being put out there by the

> CDC. I don't want to see one other person unnecessarily have to go

> through what most of us on this board have had to go through.

>

> Sharon

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Loni,

> ...The risk of my circumstance is that I may

> have cancer. Having a biopsy so it is important to have a clean home.

> I'm trying to get this done before my biopsy.

Refering to Dr Eugene Cole again - that is exactly his position, that

doctors should be talking to their patients about preparing their

home after a biopsy or treatment or anything else that suppresses the

immune system. In fact, he will be giving a presentation about this

at the spring ASCR convention. In the meantime, contact me off-line

as some of the information is quite personal.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

grimes@...

[Guest guest]

Carl & Loni,

Two points or concerns have been made here, one from each of you.

Carl, you mentioned that Dr.E.Cole and other physicians should be

educating the public on how to prepare and clean their environment

before any type of medical treatment to prevent other secondary

infections.

Loni, you mentioned cancer. This brings a thought to mind that I've

seen take place over and over and over again, by our medical

community and you really feel like wringing their necks.

I think many of us at one time have watched several medical shows

pretaining to mainly children dealing with cancer at several

childrens hospitals. These shows are so difficult to watch, but it

helps at times to see how our physicians really go about diagnosing

and addressing future concerns. What they do and DON'T do.

Several times there have been cases of young children dealing with

supposedly with rare cancers or serious autoimmune diseases, life

threatening. They treat them with chemo or radiation or both, which

is very difficult to deal with in any case. Next they show you these

kids walking up and down the hallways regaining their strength,

doing excellant overall, but at that same time wearing a respirator.

This was great to see, of course because of the treatment, they have

no immune system to fight off infection.This is why they are being

very cautious, by wearing the respirator.

The next thing they show is the child being released from the

hospital, outside, having fun, trying to be normal like the other

kids, being a part of family activities and I'm thrilled to see

this. But also at the same time it makes me cringe knowing this

childs immune system is not what it should be or should have been

before they released them. The second part of the story and it's

like you almost knew, but they said we're sorry to say that so & so

had developed a lung fungal infection and lost the battle.

Where was this precious little childs home environment at, that they

portrayed? Looked like a family farm. My opinion this child should

never have been released from the hospital under these conditions.

This should have been almost expected that they were highly

suspectable to fungal infections. Makes me very angry, it should

never have happened.

The exact same thing happened to a friend of mine several years ago,

whom I worked daily with. Diagnosed with leukemia, went through

chemo treatment, went into remission, released him from the hospital

for two months before a bone marrow transplant, they did have a

match from one of his siblings. This never happened. Because of what

I know now, his home had visible mold in it and he also visited us

on several other jobs that were under construction, of course with

all types of particles in the air. It started with a cough, became

severe. I begged him to visit his doctor, he waited another week for

the appointment and I was afraid of what the prognosis was going to

be and I was right, sorry to say. He developed a fungal ball in his

lungs, aspergillus. And then sent him home saying sorry there is

nothing we can do for you. Three weeks later he was gone.

What is the answer to this, I don't know. I think it should be the

same thing that we strive for here. Education and PREVENTION.

Loni, I may be out of line here and I don't mean to scare or want to

harm anyone. You just have to take precautions dealing with any

illness and doing everything you possibly can within your power to

prevent a secondary infection. I really do believe that our medical

community needs to make some drastic changes to prevent

immunocompromised individuals from these other preventable

conditions or infections. It can be done.

KC

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@h...>

wrote:

>

> Loni,

>

> > ...The risk of my circumstance is that I may

> > have cancer. Having a biopsy so it is important to have a clean

home.

> > I'm trying to get this done before my biopsy.

>

> Refering to Dr Eugene Cole again - that is exactly his position,

that

> doctors should be talking to their patients about preparing their

> home after a biopsy or treatment or anything else that suppresses

the

> immune system. In fact, he will be giving a presentation about

this

> at the spring ASCR convention. In the meantime, contact me off-

line

> as some of the information is quite personal.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

> grimes@h...

>

[Guest guest]

KC, They could not do anything about the fungal ball? Just sent him home? What

do they normally do for that? Loni

tigerpaw2c <tigerpaw2c@...> wrote: Carl & Loni,

Two points or concerns have been made here, one from each of you.

Carl, you mentioned that Dr.E.Cole and other physicians should be

educating the public on how to prepare and clean their environment

before any type of medical treatment to prevent other secondary

infections.

Loni, you mentioned cancer. This brings a thought to mind that I've

seen take place over and over and over again, by our medical

community and you really feel like wringing their necks.

I think many of us at one time have watched several medical shows

pretaining to mainly children dealing with cancer at several

childrens hospitals. These shows are so difficult to watch, but it

helps at times to see how our physicians really go about diagnosing

and addressing future concerns. What they do and DON'T do.

Several times there have been cases of young children dealing with

supposedly with rare cancers or serious autoimmune diseases, life

threatening. They treat them with chemo or radiation or both, which

is very difficult to deal with in any case. Next they show you these

kids walking up and down the hallways regaining their strength,

doing excellant overall, but at that same time wearing a respirator.

This was great to see, of course because of the treatment, they have

no immune system to fight off infection.This is why they are being

very cautious, by wearing the respirator.

The next thing they show is the child being released from the

hospital, outside, having fun, trying to be normal like the other

kids, being a part of family activities and I'm thrilled to see

this. But also at the same time it makes me cringe knowing this

childs immune system is not what it should be or should have been

before they released them. The second part of the story and it's

like you almost knew, but they said we're sorry to say that so & so

had developed a lung fungal infection and lost the battle.

Where was this precious little childs home environment at, that they

portrayed? Looked like a family farm. My opinion this child should

never have been released from the hospital under these conditions.

This should have been almost expected that they were highly

suspectable to fungal infections. Makes me very angry, it should

never have happened.

The exact same thing happened to a friend of mine several years ago,

whom I worked daily with. Diagnosed with leukemia, went through

chemo treatment, went into remission, released him from the hospital

for two months before a bone marrow transplant, they did have a

match from one of his siblings. This never happened. Because of what

I know now, his home had visible mold in it and he also visited us

on several other jobs that were under construction, of course with

all types of particles in the air. It started with a cough, became

severe. I begged him to visit his doctor, he waited another week for

the appointment and I was afraid of what the prognosis was going to

be and I was right, sorry to say. He developed a fungal ball in his

lungs, aspergillus. And then sent him home saying sorry there is

nothing we can do for you. Three weeks later he was gone.

What is the answer to this, I don't know. I think it should be the

same thing that we strive for here. Education and PREVENTION.

Loni, I may be out of line here and I don't mean to scare or want to

harm anyone. You just have to take precautions dealing with any

illness and doing everything you possibly can within your power to

prevent a secondary infection. I really do believe that our medical

community needs to make some drastic changes to prevent

immunocompromised individuals from these other preventable

conditions or infections. It can be done.

KC

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@h...>

wrote:

>

> Loni,

>

> > ...The risk of my circumstance is that I may

> > have cancer. Having a biopsy so it is important to have a clean

home.

> > I'm trying to get this done before my biopsy.

>

> Refering to Dr Eugene Cole again - that is exactly his position,

that

> doctors should be talking to their patients about preparing their

> home after a biopsy or treatment or anything else that suppresses

the

> immune system. In fact, he will be giving a presentation about

this

> at the spring ASCR convention. In the meantime, contact me off-

line

> as some of the information is quite personal.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

> grimes@h...

>

FAIR USE NOTICE:

[Guest guest]

KC, They could not do anything about the fungal ball? Just sent him home?

What do they normally do for that? Loni

tigerpaw2c <tigerpaw2c@...> wrote: Carl & Loni,

Two points or concerns have been made here, one from each of you.

Carl, you mentioned that Dr.E.Cole and other physicians should be

educating the public on how to prepare and clean their environment

before any type of medical treatment to prevent other secondary

infections.

Loni, you mentioned cancer. This brings a thought to mind that I've

seen take place over and over and over again, by our medical

community and you really feel like wringing their necks.

I think many of us at one time have watched several medical shows

pretaining to mainly children dealing with cancer at several

childrens hospitals. These shows are so difficult to watch, but it

helps at times to see how our physicians really go about diagnosing

and addressing future concerns. What they do and DON'T do.

Several times there have been cases of young children dealing with

supposedly with rare cancers or serious autoimmune diseases, life

threatening. They treat them with chemo or radiation or both, which

is very difficult to deal with in any case. Next they show you these

kids walking up and down the hallways regaining their strength,

doing excellant overall, but at that same time wearing a respirator.

This was great to see, of course because of the treatment, they have

no immune system to fight off infection.This is why they are being

very cautious, by wearing the respirator.

The next thing they show is the child being released from the

hospital, outside, having fun, trying to be normal like the other

kids, being a part of family activities and I'm thrilled to see

this. But also at the same time it makes me cringe knowing this

childs immune system is not what it should be or should have been

before they released them. The second part of the story and it's

like you almost knew, but they said we're sorry to say that so & so

had developed a lung fungal infection and lost the battle.

Where was this precious little childs home environment at, that they

portrayed? Looked like a family farm. My opinion this child should

never have been released from the hospital under these conditions.

This should have been almost expected that they were highly

suspectable to fungal infections. Makes me very angry, it should

never have happened.

The exact same thing happened to a friend of mine several years ago,

whom I worked daily with. Diagnosed with leukemia, went through

chemo treatment, went into remission, released him from the hospital

for two months before a bone marrow transplant, they did have a

match from one of his siblings. This never happened. Because of what

I know now, his home had visible mold in it and he also visited us

on several other jobs that were under construction, of course with

all types of particles in the air. It started with a cough, became

severe. I begged him to visit his doctor, he waited another week for

the appointment and I was afraid of what the prognosis was going to

be and I was right, sorry to say. He developed a fungal ball in his

lungs, aspergillus. And then sent him home saying sorry there is

nothing we can do for you. Three weeks later he was gone.

What is the answer to this, I don't know. I think it should be the

same thing that we strive for here. Education and PREVENTION.

Loni, I may be out of line here and I don't mean to scare or want to

harm anyone. You just have to take precautions dealing with any

illness and doing everything you possibly can within your power to

prevent a secondary infection. I really do believe that our medical

community needs to make some drastic changes to prevent

immunocompromised individuals from these other preventable

conditions or infections. It can be done.

KC

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@h...>

wrote:

>

> Loni,

>

> > ...The risk of my circumstance is that I may

> > have cancer. Having a biopsy so it is important to have a clean

home.

> > I'm trying to get this done before my biopsy.

>

> Refering to Dr Eugene Cole again - that is exactly his position,

that

> doctors should be talking to their patients about preparing their

> home after a biopsy or treatment or anything else that suppresses

the

> immune system. In fact, he will be giving a presentation about

this

> at the spring ASCR convention. In the meantime, contact me off-

line

> as some of the information is quite personal.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

> grimes@h...

>

FAIR USE NOTICE:

[Guest guest]

Loni,

I spoke with his doctor and he did not go into a lot of detail,

whether it was a fungal ball or many. Or a large fungal infection in

both lungs. This all took place as my wife and I were just starting

our journey and just got some of her bloodwook back. When I had

asked him first (the doctor) what type of infection it was, which I

already knew because I was speaking to his wife, I just needed to

hear it from the doctor. First he said candida, which this literally

buckled me, I was shocked. I didn't need to hear that at that time.

Because my wife's levels were very high. But then he changed that to

aspergillus very quickly. His body was in such a weakened state from

the chemo, several months of uncontrolable coughing, that the doctor

said he was just not strong enough to handle the mega doses of

antibodics that they needed to prescribe. Which I don't believe was

the correct action to take on this.

Really the point I am trying to make, anyone that has gone through

this type of treatment that puts them at great risk for a secondary

infection, should not be sent home, especially if they are not aware

of their environment, which may not be a healthy one.

There should be a medical facility to where these patients can go so

they can recover in a safe environment. Not just be sent home and

given a death sentence.

KC

> >

> > Loni,

> >

> > > ...The risk of my circumstance is that I may

> > > have cancer. Having a biopsy so it is important to have a

clean

> home.

> > > I'm trying to get this done before my biopsy.

> >

> > Refering to Dr Eugene Cole again - that is exactly his position,

> that

> > doctors should be talking to their patients about preparing

their

> > home after a biopsy or treatment or anything else that

suppresses

> the

> > immune system. In fact, he will be giving a presentation about

> this

> > at the spring ASCR convention. In the meantime, contact me off-

> line

> > as some of the information is quite personal.

> >

> > Carl Grimes

> > Healthy Habitats LLC

> > grimes@h...

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks KC, that certainly could be my case because they had found a spot on the

lungs & didn't know what it was & the exposure I have had is intense. My

naturopath said I was not strong enough to do chemo/radiation. My energy level

was the lowest he has ever seen. So I will take note & be careful. I do have

some good doctors so I think I'm good hands. My environment here is a big

concern. I am leaving the house today to stay with my sister & my husband is

going to start cleaning up. We only have the electrostatic air purifier at the

moment however but we are going to buy a hepa room purifier & just move it

around. We'll move both of them around the house. We have one of those petry

dish tests that we are going to do. Thanks so much for your support. Loni

tigerpaw2c <tigerpaw2c@...> wrote:

Loni,

I spoke with his doctor and he did not go into a lot of detail,

whether it was a fungal ball or many. Or a large fungal infection in

both lungs. This all took place as my wife and I were just starting

our journey and just got some of her bloodwook back. When I had

asked him first (the doctor) what type of infection it was, which I

already knew because I was speaking to his wife, I just needed to

hear it from the doctor. First he said candida, which this literally

buckled me, I was shocked. I didn't need to hear that at that time.

Because my wife's levels were very high. But then he changed that to

aspergillus very quickly. His body was in such a weakened state from

the chemo, several months of uncontrolable coughing, that the doctor

said he was just not strong enough to handle the mega doses of

antibodics that they needed to prescribe. Which I don't believe was

the correct action to take on this.

Really the point I am trying to make, anyone that has gone through

this type of treatment that puts them at great risk for a secondary

infection, should not be sent home, especially if they are not aware

of their environment, which may not be a healthy one.

There should be a medical facility to where these patients can go so

they can recover in a safe environment. Not just be sent home and

given a death sentence.

KC

> >

> > Loni,

> >

> > > ...The risk of my circumstance is that I may

> > > have cancer. Having a biopsy so it is important to have a

clean

> home.

> > > I'm trying to get this done before my biopsy.

> >

> > Refering to Dr Eugene Cole again - that is exactly his position,

> that

> > doctors should be talking to their patients about preparing

their

> > home after a biopsy or treatment or anything else that

suppresses

> the

> > immune system. In fact, he will be giving a presentation about

> this

> > at the spring ASCR convention. In the meantime, contact me off-

> line

> > as some of the information is quite personal.

> >

> > Carl Grimes

> > Healthy Habitats LLC

> > grimes@h...

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

>

>

>