Guest guest Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 , Thank you. You have eloquently and clearly described, and even labeled, what I consider our biggest challenge, more important than standing up to the doctors, lawyers, landlords, insurance adjustors and other pretenders. INCREASING PUBLIC AWARENESS. An aware, informed public will help drive the others in the right direction by the mass of their demand. But how do we reach the " cantbees " when it is right under - or literally in - their nose? What has worked for you? What should be avoided? I'm willing to make this a more specific effort in a way that even the most disabled of you can contribute. I'm Vice President of the non-profit Indoor Air Quality Association (www.iaqa.org) and chair of their marketing committee. The mission statement of IAQA reads: " The Indoor Air Quality Association (IAQA) is a nonprofit, multi-disciplined organization, dedicated to promoting the exchange of indoor environmental information, through education and research, for the safety and well being of the general public. " Tell me what has worked and what to avoid - off-line if you prefer - as short or as long as you wish. Maybe just a few words is all that's needed. Nothing elaborate is necessary. Simple is easy and is often better anyway. All you lurkers out there - and there's got to be a couple among the 1500 on this group - here's your chance. Private and off-line. Spread the word. No one but me will know and I won't tell! You know who you are and some of us already know each other. Perhaps, between us and IAQA's 5500 members, training and independant certification programs, we can help each other make a difference. I can't guarantee anything myself but I promise your input will affect my committee's educational/promotional efforts plus I'll take your input to the board. Timing is excellent as the board meets in three weeks. What do you want us to know? Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- > I conistently see an emotional response of denial that overrides > logicalism. I can only tolerate a friends house for a short time. > She's noticed that whenever I come to visit, within minutes I start to > cough. She keeps saying " Your cough is back. Are you coming down with > a cold? " I say " No, this always happens to me when I'm exposed to > certain types of mold, and is a warning sign that I have pay attention > to " . > > There is no visible mold anywhere in this almost-new house and so the > response is " Mold here? CANTBEE! " > > Well, this person feels consistently rotten but blames it on stress. > Can only work two days a week now and can hardly get up in the > morning. Her dog has a chronic cough that mysteriously disappears > when away from the house. Upon re-entry, the dog nearly collapses in > a hacking fit. But my friend goes into a strange denial as if the > brain is literally switched off, and says " The dog is coughing again, > just like you. I wonder if the dog is allergic to the brand of dog > food I've got. The vet can't figure it out. I wonder what could be > causing it? " . > > I've seen this denial response so often that I find it to be the norm > rather than the exception. I refer to these as " Cantbees " . - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 I have had very little success in convincing my family about this. My own husband has not been very supportive, and when I found my mother-in-law's house to have a severe mold problem, none of them believed me, even thought I was incapacitated and slept outside on the grass for several hours trying to throw off the effects of the toxins. They were not interested in the idea of mold in their home- thought it must be something else. Meanwhile, she is very allergic to mold and she knows it, and may be dying from the exposure, slowly. I am slowly comng to believe that the neurotoxic effects of the mold are much more profound than even I could believe before. Every single person that worked in my moldy basement became angry just from being in the space. Every single person living in this house before remediation was seriously depressed. When finally all the active mold was removed from my house, my husband stopped being angry for the first time in years. His sense of humor started to return, and I started to recognise his old personality. There is a specific part of the brain that deals with the anger response, I don't remember wht it is. I think that many of the psychological illnesses that have become rampant today may be partly due to the epidemic of mold and mold illnesses from the incorrect building practices that became standard 30 or 40 years ago, before anyone knew about mold. I have worked with a professional guy who works with those who have had impairment in the brain from trauma- he is truly amazing. He said to me that he is coming to believe that there is no true psychological cause for mental impairment, that it is entirely possible that it is due to physical causes. He knows of people with " allergy " who had serious brain problems (autism), when the allergies were treated, the autism went away. This suggests a neurotoxic effect from either the environment, or the diet. Since I have had such personal experience with mental impairment in this environment, I am certain of it's truth- mold and mycotoxin exposure directly causes various mental impairments, including depression, anger, anxiety, etc. This is just my personal experience. My experience really sheds light on why the complete denial, at least in my mind. And I don't think you could get a serious researcher to touch it with a 10 foot pole. At least if they still wanted to have a career afterwards. Thank God for the courageous doctors who are doggedly working to help us in spite of the pressure from the opposition. > > , > > Thank you. You have eloquently and clearly described, and even > labeled, what I consider our biggest challenge, more important than > standing up to the doctors, lawyers, landlords, insurance adjustors > and other pretenders. INCREASING PUBLIC AWARENESS. An aware, informed > public will help drive the others in the right direction by the mass > of their demand. But how do we reach the " cantbees " when it is right > under - or literally in - their nose? > > What has worked for you? What should be avoided? > > I'm willing to make this a more specific effort in a way that even > the most disabled of you can contribute. I'm Vice President of the > non-profit Indoor Air Quality Association (www.iaqa.org) and chair of > their marketing committee. > > The mission statement of IAQA reads: " The Indoor Air Quality > Association (IAQA) is a nonprofit, multi-disciplined organization, > dedicated to promoting the exchange of indoor environmental > information, through education and research, for the safety and well > being of the general public. " > > Tell me what has worked and what to avoid - off-line if you prefer - > as short or as long as you wish. Maybe just a few words is all that's > needed. Nothing elaborate is necessary. Simple is easy and is often > better anyway. > > All you lurkers out there - and there's got to be a couple among the > 1500 on this group - here's your chance. Private and off-line. Spread > the word. No one but me will know and I won't tell! You know who you > are and some of us already know each other. > > Perhaps, between us and IAQA's 5500 members, training and independant > certification programs, we can help each other make a difference. I > can't guarantee anything myself but I promise your input will affect > my committee's educational/promotional efforts plus I'll take your > input to the board. Timing is excellent as the board meets in three > weeks. What do you want us to know? > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC > > ----- > > I conistently see an emotional response of denial that overrides > > logicalism. I can only tolerate a friends house for a short time. > > She's noticed that whenever I come to visit, within minutes I start to > > cough. She keeps saying " Your cough is back. Are you coming down with > > a cold? " I say " No, this always happens to me when I'm exposed to > > certain types of mold, and is a warning sign that I have pay attention > > to " . > > > > There is no visible mold anywhere in this almost-new house and so the > > response is " Mold here? CANTBEE! " > > > > Well, this person feels consistently rotten but blames it on stress. > > Can only work two days a week now and can hardly get up in the > > morning. Her dog has a chronic cough that mysteriously disappears > > when away from the house. Upon re-entry, the dog nearly collapses in > > a hacking fit. But my friend goes into a strange denial as if the > > brain is literally switched off, and says " The dog is coughing again, > > just like you. I wonder if the dog is allergic to the brand of dog > > food I've got. The vet can't figure it out. I wonder what could be > > causing it? " . > > > > I've seen this denial response so often that I find it to be the norm > > rather than the exception. I refer to these as " Cantbees " . - > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 <kl_clayton@y...> wrote: > This suggests a neurotoxic effect from either the environment, or the diet. Since I have had such personal experience with mental impairment in this environment, I am certain of it's truth- mold and mycotoxin exposure directly causes various mental impairments, including depression, anger, anxiety, etc. This is just my personal experience. > > My experience really sheds light on why the complete denial, at least in my mind. > > And I don't think you could get a serious researcher to touch it with a 10 foot pole. At > least if they still wanted to have a career afterwards. > > Thank God for the courageous doctors who are doggedly working to help us in spite of the pressure from the opposition. > The power of " Cantbeeism " is so great that I have taken people through exposure and decontamination to demonstrate " The Effect " and later had them say " I really thought you were on to something, because I could feel it myself - but I asked my doctor and he told me that this was impossible so I guess it must be something else " It is mindboggling that people trust doctors to the point of denying their own clear perceptions! I have consistently maintained on this list that the type of testing and approach that people are discussing would be completely insufficient to address the problems of someone at MY level of reactivity. I have a tape recording of myself in 1999 describing to Dr the strategy I used to leave the ampligen program NIH CFS study and recover to a point of climbing Mt Whitney whenever I wish. I told researchers that the mold was pretty much everywhere and that I was forced to live a lifestyle of decontamination after exposure to spore plumes, and that the reliable indicator of exposure was " The Depression Response " . I have described the usefulness of depression as an sense for detection of toxic exposure many times as " Turning a 'weakness' into a Strength " This is all in the old messages, but I guess that people in this group did not consider themselves to be at a point of resorting to such extremes. I even put this information in the British Medical Journal, and no researchers or even sufferers were interested - with the sole exception of Dr. Shoemaker, who knows and understands the specificity of the " Depression Response " . Validation is on the way. I gave up trying to " test " for spores seven years ago and learned to rely upon " associative responses " . This is what allowed me to identify a spore plume in Dr Marinkovich's own reception room and is the strategy that has allowed me to exert total control over my symptoms instead of being mercilessly beaten by mold reactivities. The " Mycotoxin Connection " has finally achieved a level of public awareness that most people have at least heard of the phenomenon. What I find incredible is that I was virtually within a CFS research environment when I proposed this concept many years ago - demonstrated it in a spectacular manner - and encountered the " Cantbee " response in such a dramatic manifestation of total intransigent denialistic braindeadedness. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Yes, , it can be a lonley life, my husband was driven mad by mold, I am sure of it, and it ruined my marriage. I cannot go to see my family this holiday, for the first time- they have just found a bad leak that has molded, and I am afraid to visit them- the dog and I will have mold-free take out chinese this Thanksgiving, and I will be very thankfull that I am healthier this year. Good luck -- In , " kl_clayton " <kl_clayton@y...> wrote: > > I have had very little success in convincing my family about this. My own husband has not > been very supportive, and when I found my mother-in-law's house to have a severe mold > problem, none of them believed me, even thought I was incapacitated and slept outside on > the grass for several hours trying to throw off the effects of the toxins. They were not > interested in the idea of mold in their home- thought it must be something else. > Meanwhile, she is very allergic to mold and she knows it, and may be dying from the > exposure, slowly. > > I am slowly comng to believe that the neurotoxic effects of the mold are much more > profound than even I could believe before. > > Every single person that worked in my moldy basement became angry just from being in > the space. > > Every single person living in this house before remediation was seriously depressed. > > When finally all the active mold was removed from my house, my husband stopped being > angry for the first time in years. His sense of humor started to return, and I started to > recognise his old personality. > > There is a specific part of the brain that deals with the anger response, I don't remember > wht it is. I think that many of the psychological illnesses that have become rampant today > may be partly due to the epidemic of mold and mold illnesses from the incorrect building > practices that became standard 30 or 40 years ago, before anyone knew about mold. I > have worked with a professional guy who works with those who have had impairment in > the brain from trauma- he is truly amazing. He said to me that he is coming to believe > that there is no true psychological cause for mental impairment, that it is entirely possible > that it is due to physical causes. > > He knows of people with " allergy " who had serious brain problems (autism), when the > allergies were treated, the autism went away. > > This suggests a neurotoxic effect from either the environment, or the diet. Since I have > had such personal experience with mental impairment in this environment, I am certain of > it's truth- mold and mycotoxin exposure directly causes various mental impairments, > including depression, anger, anxiety, etc. This is just my personal experience. > > My experience really sheds light on why the complete denial, at least in my mind. > > And I don't think you could get a serious researcher to touch it with a 10 foot pole. At > least if they still wanted to have a career afterwards. > > Thank God for the courageous doctors who are doggedly working to help us in spite of the > pressure from the opposition. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 There needs to be a web database that captures all of the ACCURATE scientific papers on various aspects of mold and which TRACKS the disinfo campaigns.. who is saying what, what their PR firms are, what the fake grassroots groups are, etc. WHICH MAKES THIS INFORMATION AVAILABLE.. Most of the mold websites are selling this or that, and it gets OLD. There should also be a database of REAL people who have mold stories to tell.. People who have won lawsuits against incredible odds, who realize what we are up against..and the incredible resources behind SQUELCHING the TRUTH. Then a REAL grassroots group needs to be formed that can call on those people to provide 'sound bytes' on mold. A VERY relevant book that EVERYONE fighting in this battle should read is called " Toxic Sludge is Good For You " http://www.prwatch.org/books/tsigfy.html It is actually about all kinds of environmental 'greenwashing' and the PR (read - propaganda) industry.. But all the stuff in it applies to the mold battle.. as the mold battle is just one of many salvos in the war between science and safety and the corporate " Cantbees " of all kinds, who are rapidly pushing the world towards literally hundreds of related environmental crisis on so many levels. On 11/19/05, Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...> wrote: > > , > > Thank you. You have eloquently and clearly described, and even > labeled, what I consider our biggest challenge, more important than > standing up to the doctors, lawyers, landlords, insurance adjustors > and other pretenders. INCREASING PUBLIC AWARENESS. An aware, informed > public will help drive the others in the right direction by the mass > of their demand. But how do we reach the " cantbees " when it is right > under - or literally in - their nose? > > What has worked for you? What should be avoided? > > I'm willing to make this a more specific effort in a way that even > the most disabled of you can contribute. I'm Vice President of the > non-profit Indoor Air Quality Association (www.iaqa.org<http://www.iaqa.org>) > and chair of > their marketing committee. > > The mission statement of IAQA reads: " The Indoor Air Quality > Association (IAQA) is a nonprofit, multi-disciplined organization, > dedicated to promoting the exchange of indoor environmental > information, through education and research, for the safety and well > being of the general public. " > > Tell me what has worked and what to avoid - off-line if you prefer - > as short or as long as you wish. Maybe just a few words is all that's > needed. Nothing elaborate is necessary. Simple is easy and is often > better anyway. > > All you lurkers out there - and there's got to be a couple among the > 1500 on this group - here's your chance. Private and off-line. Spread > the word. No one but me will know and I won't tell! You know who you > are and some of us already know each other. > > Perhaps, between us and IAQA's 5500 members, training and independant > certification programs, we can help each other make a difference. I > can't guarantee anything myself but I promise your input will affect > my committee's educational/promotional efforts plus I'll take your > input to the board. Timing is excellent as the board meets in three > weeks. What do you want us to know? > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC > > ----- > > I conistently see an emotional response of denial that overrides > > logicalism. I can only tolerate a friends house for a short time. > > She's noticed that whenever I come to visit, within minutes I start to > > cough. She keeps saying " Your cough is back. Are you coming down with > > a cold? " I say " No, this always happens to me when I'm exposed to > > certain types of mold, and is a warning sign that I have pay attention > > to " . > > > > There is no visible mold anywhere in this almost-new house and so the > > response is " Mold here? CANTBEE! " > > > > Well, this person feels consistently rotten but blames it on stress. > > Can only work two days a week now and can hardly get up in the > > morning. Her dog has a chronic cough that mysteriously disappears > > when away from the house. Upon re-entry, the dog nearly collapses in > > a hacking fit. But my friend goes into a strange denial as if the > > brain is literally switched off, and says " The dog is coughing again, > > just like you. I wonder if the dog is allergic to the brand of dog > > food I've got. The vet can't figure it out. I wonder what could be > > causing it? " . > > > > I've seen this denial response so often that I find it to be the norm > > rather than the exception. I refer to these as " Cantbees " . - > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Thank you, . As I told one of the off-line responders, my teenage son was sick at the same time I was (20+ years ago). You'd think I'd be very understanding but at times I wasn't. I had real difficulty comprehending his reactions if they were different from mine own. Carl ----- > I have had very little success in convincing my family about this. My > own husband has not been very supportive, and when I found my > mother-in-law's house to have a severe mold problem, none of them > believed me, even thought I was incapacitated and slept outside on the > grass for several hours trying to throw off the effects of the toxins. > They were not interested in the idea of mold in their home- thought it > must be something else. Meanwhile, she is very allergic to mold and > she knows it, and may be dying from the exposure, slowly. > > I am slowly comng to believe that the neurotoxic effects of the mold > are much more profound than even I could believe before. > > Every single person that worked in my moldy basement became angry just > from being in the space. > > Every single person living in this house before remediation was > seriously depressed. > > When finally all the active mold was removed from my house, my husband > stopped being angry for the first time in years. His sense of humor > started to return, and I started to recognise his old personality. > > There is a specific part of the brain that deals with the anger > response, I don't remember wht it is. I think that many of the > psychological illnesses that have become rampant today may be partly > due to the epidemic of mold and mold illnesses from the incorrect > building practices that became standard 30 or 40 years ago, before > anyone knew about mold. I have worked with a professional guy who > works with those who have had impairment in the brain from trauma- he > is truly amazing. He said to me that he is coming to believe that > there is no true psychological cause for mental impairment, that it is > entirely possible that it is due to physical causes. > > He knows of people with " allergy " who had serious brain problems > (autism), when the allergies were treated, the autism went away. > > This suggests a neurotoxic effect from either the environment, or the > diet. Since I have had such personal experience with mental impairment > in this environment, I am certain of it's truth- mold and mycotoxin > exposure directly causes various mental impairments, including > depression, anger, anxiety, etc. This is just my personal experience. > > My experience really sheds light on why the complete denial, at least > in my mind. > > And I don't think you could get a serious researcher to touch it with > a 10 foot pole. At least if they still wanted to have a career > afterwards. > > Thank God for the courageous doctors who are doggedly working to help > us in spite of the pressure from the opposition. > > > > > > , > > Thank you. You have eloquently and clearly > described, and even > labeled, what I consider our biggest challenge, > more important than > standing up to the doctors, lawyers, landlords, > insurance adjustors > and other pretenders. INCREASING PUBLIC > AWARENESS. An aware, informed > public will help drive the others in > the right direction by the mass > of their demand. But how do we reach > the " cantbees " when it is right > under - or literally in - their > nose? > > What has worked for you? What should be avoided? > > I'm > willing to make this a more specific effort in a way that even > the > most disabled of you can contribute. I'm Vice President of the > > non-profit Indoor Air Quality Association (www.iaqa.org) and chair of > > their marketing committee. > > The mission statement of IAQA reads: > " The Indoor Air Quality > Association (IAQA) is a nonprofit, > multi-disciplined organization, > dedicated to promoting the exchange > of indoor environmental > information, through education and research, > for the safety and well > being of the general public. " > > Tell me > what has worked and what to avoid - off-line if you prefer - > as > short or as long as you wish. Maybe just a few words is all that's > > needed. Nothing elaborate is necessary. Simple is easy and is often > > better anyway. > > All you lurkers out there - and there's got to be a > couple among the > 1500 on this group - here's your chance. Private > and off-line. Spread > the word. No one but me will know and I won't > tell! You know who you > are and some of us already know each other. > > > Perhaps, between us and IAQA's 5500 members, training and > independant > certification programs, we can help each other make a > difference. I > can't guarantee anything myself but I promise your > input will affect > my committee's educational/promotional efforts > plus I'll take your > input to the board. Timing is excellent as the > board meets in three > weeks. What do you want us to know? > > Carl > Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC > > ----- > > I conistently see an > emotional response of denial that overrides > > logicalism. I can only > tolerate a friends house for a short time. > > She's noticed that > whenever I come to visit, within minutes I start to > > cough. She > keeps saying " Your cough is back. Are you coming down with > > a > cold? " I say " No, this always happens to me when I'm exposed to > > > certain types of mold, and is a warning sign that I have pay attention > > > to " . > > > > There is no visible mold anywhere in this almost-new > house and so the > > response is " Mold here? CANTBEE! " > > > > Well, > this person feels consistently rotten but blames it on stress. > > Can > only work two days a week now and can hardly get up in the > > > morning. Her dog has a chronic cough that mysteriously disappears > > > when away from the house. Upon re-entry, the dog nearly collapses in > > > a hacking fit. But my friend goes into a strange denial as if the > > > brain is literally switched off, and says " The dog is coughing > again, > > just like you. I wonder if the dog is allergic to the > brand of dog > > food I've got. The vet can't figure it out. I > wonder what could be > > causing it? " . > > > > I've seen this denial > response so often that I find it to be the norm > > rather than the > exception. I refer to these as " Cantbees " . - > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 , > It is mindboggling that people trust doctors to the point of > denying their own clear perceptions! That is one of the major obstacles, , in my opinion. We (are taught) to rely on outside authorities to tell us what our perceptions should be and ask that they redefine our direct experiences. Not unlike medieval priesthood. Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Well said. Thank you! Carl ----- > There needs to be a web database that captures all of the ACCURATE > scientific papers on various aspects of mold and which TRACKS the > disinfo campaigns.. who is saying what, what their PR firms are, what > the fake grassroots groups are, etc. WHICH MAKES THIS INFORMATION > AVAILABLE.. Most of the mold websites are selling this or that, and it > gets OLD. > > There should also be a database of REAL people who have mold stories > to tell.. People who have won lawsuits against incredible odds, who > realize what we are up against..and the incredible resources behind > SQUELCHING the TRUTH. > > Then a REAL grassroots group needs to be formed that can call on those > people to provide 'sound bytes' on mold. > > A VERY relevant book that EVERYONE fighting in this battle should read > is called " Toxic Sludge is Good For You " > http://www.prwatch.org/books/tsigfy.html > > It is actually about all kinds of environmental 'greenwashing' and the > PR (read - propaganda) industry.. > > But all the stuff in it applies to the mold battle.. as the mold > battle is just one of many salvos in the war between science and > safety and the corporate " Cantbees " of all kinds, who are rapidly > pushing the world towards literally hundreds of related environmental > crisis on so many levels. > > > > On 11/19/05, Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...> wrote: > > > > , > > > > Thank you. You have eloquently and clearly described, and even > > labeled, what I consider our biggest challenge, more important than > > standing up to the doctors, lawyers, landlords, insurance adjustors > > and other pretenders. INCREASING PUBLIC AWARENESS. An aware, > > informed public will help drive the others in the right direction by > > the mass of their demand. But how do we reach the " cantbees " when it > > is right under - or literally in - their nose? > > > > What has worked for you? What should be avoided? > > > > I'm willing to make this a more specific effort in a way that even > > the most disabled of you can contribute. I'm Vice President of the > > non-profit Indoor Air Quality Association > > (www.iaqa.org<http://www.iaqa.org>) and chair of their marketing > > committee. > > > > The mission statement of IAQA reads: " The Indoor Air Quality > > Association (IAQA) is a nonprofit, multi-disciplined organization, > > dedicated to promoting the exchange of indoor environmental > > information, through education and research, for the safety and well > > being of the general public. " > > > > Tell me what has worked and what to avoid - off-line if you prefer - > > as short or as long as you wish. Maybe just a few words is all > > that's needed. Nothing elaborate is necessary. Simple is easy and is > > often better anyway. > > > > All you lurkers out there - and there's got to be a couple among the > > 1500 on this group - here's your chance. Private and off-line. > > Spread the word. No one but me will know and I won't tell! You know > > who you are and some of us already know each other. > > > > Perhaps, between us and IAQA's 5500 members, training and > > independant certification programs, we can help each other make a > > difference. I can't guarantee anything myself but I promise your > > input will affect my committee's educational/promotional efforts > > plus I'll take your input to the board. Timing is excellent as the > > board meets in three weeks. What do you want us to know? > > > > Carl Grimes > > Healthy Habitats LLC > > > > ----- > > > I conistently see an emotional response of denial that overrides > > > logicalism. I can only tolerate a friends house for a short time. > > > She's noticed that whenever I come to visit, within minutes I > > > start to cough. She keeps saying " Your cough is back. Are you > > > coming down with a cold? " I say " No, this always happens to me > > > when I'm exposed to certain types of mold, and is a warning sign > > > that I have pay attention to " . > > > > > > There is no visible mold anywhere in this almost-new house and so > > > the response is " Mold here? CANTBEE! " > > > > > > Well, this person feels consistently rotten but blames it on > > > stress. Can only work two days a week now and can hardly get up in > > > the morning. Her dog has a chronic cough that mysteriously > > > disappears when away from the house. Upon re-entry, the dog nearly > > > collapses in a hacking fit. But my friend goes into a strange > > > denial as if the brain is literally switched off, and says " The > > > dog is coughing again, just like you. I wonder if the dog is > > > allergic to the brand of dog food I've got. The vet can't figure > > > it out. I wonder what could be causing it? " . > > > > > > I've seen this denial response so often that I find it to be the > > > norm rather than the exception. I refer to these as " Cantbees " . > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 When I lost my 2 friends in the medical field, I think my last words were " don't ask me to deny my experiences! " It does not help being believed when you are also exhibiting nuerological damage. --- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@h...> wrote: > > , > > > It is mindboggling that people trust doctors to the point of > > denying their own clear perceptions! > > That is one of the major obstacles, , in my opinion. We (are > taught) to rely on outside authorities to tell us what our > perceptions should be and ask that they redefine our direct > experiences. Not unlike medieval priesthood. > > Carl > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 You GO, DUDE!!! And I like the reference to the medival priesthood, Carl. I believe it is called " closemindedness " . And " Don't confuse me with the facts, please, I already have my mind made up " . > The power of " Cantbeeism " is so great that I have taken people > through exposure and decontamination to demonstrate " The Effect " and > later had them say " I really thought you were on to something, > because I could feel it myself - but I asked my doctor and he told > me that this was impossible so I guess it must be something else " > It is mindboggling that people trust doctors to the point of > denying their own clear perceptions! > > I have consistently maintained on this list that the type of > testing and approach that people are discussing would be completely > insufficient to address the problems of someone at MY level of > reactivity. > I have a tape recording of myself in 1999 describing to Dr > the strategy I used to leave the ampligen program NIH CFS study and > recover to a point of climbing Mt Whitney whenever I wish. > I told researchers that the mold was pretty much everywhere and that > I was forced to live a lifestyle of decontamination after exposure > to spore plumes, and that the reliable indicator of exposure > was " The Depression Response " . I have described the usefulness of > depression as an sense for detection of toxic exposure many times > as " Turning a 'weakness' into a Strength " This is all in the old > messages, but I guess that people in this group did not consider > themselves to be at a point of resorting to such extremes. > I even put this information in the British Medical Journal, and no > researchers or even sufferers were interested - with the sole > exception of Dr. Shoemaker, who knows and understands the > specificity of the " Depression Response " . Validation is on the way. > > I gave up trying to " test " for spores seven years ago and learned > to rely upon " associative responses " . This is what allowed me to > identify a spore plume in Dr Marinkovich's own reception room and is > the strategy that has allowed me to exert total control over my > symptoms instead of being mercilessly beaten by mold reactivities. > > The " Mycotoxin Connection " has finally achieved a level of public > awareness that most people have at least heard of the phenomenon. > What I find incredible is that I was virtually within a CFS research > environment when I proposed this concept many years ago - > demonstrated it in a spectacular manner - and encountered > the " Cantbee " response in such a dramatic manifestation of > total intransigent denialistic braindeadedness. > - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 & : We are the three muskateers: I had some oxygen therapy today & felt good, then sat in the room my husband cleaned yesterday & had a major head explosion. He is getting really frustrated with me & said he's had it. Told me to take a pill & go to my sisters. I guess I don't blame him. He's trying to clean up the house but it's just stirring it up. The kitchen & familily room are the most toxic. He still won't give up the moldly couch & lounger. Do you think he could vacuum it to death & get the mold out? I know it's not usually done on fabric. I don't know if I can have Thanksgiving in my house this year. A never ending nightmare!!! Oh ya, He took me to a psychiatrist today. The guy was 90 years old. Didn't ask me that much but decided I was depressed (because I have fatigue from mold exposure) & wanted to put me on PAXEL. My sister told my husband that I would not go on antidepressents but He tried anyway. I guess he thinks that will make things all better & of course it's all in my head. And this psychiatrists office was so dirty & dusty I had to go outside several times during the session. OMG it was awful. I couldn't breath. $200 was this guys fee which I guess my inlaws are paying for. They all think I am crazy. I just want to be mold free & healthy again. That's all. We all do! I wish family could understand better. I think my sister does to a certain degree. I know my husband is getting stressed with this illness. I hope you can have a nice holiday anyway. Hang in there!!! Loni carondeen <kdeanstudios@...> wrote: Yes, , it can be a lonley life, my husband was driven mad by mold, I am sure of it, and it ruined my marriage. I cannot go to see my family this holiday, for the first time- they have just found a bad leak that has molded, and I am afraid to visit them- the dog and I will have mold-free take out chinese this Thanksgiving, and I will be very thankfull that I am healthier this year. Good luck -- In , " kl_clayton " <kl_clayton@y...> wrote: > > I have had very little success in convincing my family about this. My own husband has not > been very supportive, and when I found my mother-in-law's house to have a severe mold > problem, none of them believed me, even thought I was incapacitated and slept outside on > the grass for several hours trying to throw off the effects of the toxins. They were not > interested in the idea of mold in their home- thought it must be something else. > Meanwhile, she is very allergic to mold and she knows it, and may be dying from the > exposure, slowly. > > I am slowly comng to believe that the neurotoxic effects of the mold are much more > profound than even I could believe before. > > Every single person that worked in my moldy basement became angry just from being in > the space. > > Every single person living in this house before remediation was seriously depressed. > > When finally all the active mold was removed from my house, my husband stopped being > angry for the first time in years. His sense of humor started to return, and I started to > recognise his old personality. > > There is a specific part of the brain that deals with the anger response, I don't remember > wht it is. I think that many of the psychological illnesses that have become rampant today > may be partly due to the epidemic of mold and mold illnesses from the incorrect building > practices that became standard 30 or 40 years ago, before anyone knew about mold. I > have worked with a professional guy who works with those who have had impairment in > the brain from trauma- he is truly amazing. He said to me that he is coming to believe > that there is no true psychological cause for mental impairment, that it is entirely possible > that it is due to physical causes. > > He knows of people with " allergy " who had serious brain problems (autism), when the > allergies were treated, the autism went away. > > This suggests a neurotoxic effect from either the environment, or the diet. Since I have > had such personal experience with mental impairment in this environment, I am certain of > it's truth- mold and mycotoxin exposure directly causes various mental impairments, > including depression, anger, anxiety, etc. This is just my personal experience. > > My experience really sheds light on why the complete denial, at least in my mind. > > And I don't think you could get a serious researcher to touch it with a 10 foot pole. At > least if they still wanted to have a career afterwards. > > Thank God for the courageous doctors who are doggedly working to help us in spite of the > pressure from the opposition. > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Hang in there girls. It is hard for people that are not affected by the mold to understand the pain we suffer. It was hard for my husband to understand and he still sometimes gets frustrated. We had 3 moldy places and I can tell you I felt like a burden. In the last moldy place my husband had seizures. He hallusinated on zoloft big time and eventually had a blood clot by his heart. This was during a move and everything was getting kicked up and he didn't wear a mask when I told him to. He now also chemical type asthma but not at my level. Atleast he can work and has recovered. It was very hard for my daughter to understand why we had to throw away so much of our lives and especially when she couldn't wear fragrances cuz of reactive airways, asthma. > > > > I have had very little success in convincing my family about this. > My own husband has not > > been very supportive, and when I found my mother-in-law's house to > have a severe mold > > problem, none of them believed me, even thought I was > incapacitated and slept outside on > > the grass for several hours trying to throw off the effects of the > toxins. They were not > > interested in the idea of mold in their home- thought it must be > something else. > > Meanwhile, she is very allergic to mold and she knows it, and may > be dying from the > > exposure, slowly. > > > > I am slowly comng to believe that the neurotoxic effects of the > mold are much more > > profound than even I could believe before. > > > > Every single person that worked in my moldy basement became angry > just from being in > > the space. > > > > Every single person living in this house before remediation was > seriously depressed. > > > > When finally all the active mold was removed from my house, my > husband stopped being > > angry for the first time in years. His sense of humor started to > return, and I started to > > recognise his old personality. > > > > There is a specific part of the brain that deals with the anger > response, I don't remember > > wht it is. I think that many of the psychological illnesses that > have become rampant today > > may be partly due to the epidemic of mold and mold illnesses from > the incorrect building > > practices that became standard 30 or 40 years ago, before anyone > knew about mold. I > > have worked with a professional guy who works with those who have > had impairment in > > the brain from trauma- he is truly amazing. He said to me that he > is coming to believe > > that there is no true psychological cause for mental impairment, > that it is entirely possible > > that it is due to physical causes. > > > > He knows of people with " allergy " who had serious brain problems > (autism), when the > > allergies were treated, the autism went away. > > > > This suggests a neurotoxic effect from either the environment, or > the diet. Since I have > > had such personal experience with mental impairment in this > environment, I am certain of > > it's truth- mold and mycotoxin exposure directly causes various > mental impairments, > > including depression, anger, anxiety, etc. This is just my > personal experience. > > > > My experience really sheds light on why the complete denial, at > least in my mind. > > > > And I don't think you could get a serious researcher to touch it > with a 10 foot pole. At > > least if they still wanted to have a career afterwards. > > > > Thank God for the courageous doctors who are doggedly working to > help us in spite of the > > pressure from the opposition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Loni- gee what a waste of money- for $200 you could have gotten a hepa cleaner- or paid for a couple of good house cleaners- don't be bullied into bad health- I was for years-an antideppressant? great if you are freaking out- but with your fragile health-another chemical might not be the best idea-I hope your sister can stay the course > > & : We are the three muskateers: I had some oxygen therapy today & felt good, then sat in the room my husband cleaned yesterday & had a major head explosion. He is getting really frustrated with me & said he's had it. Told me to take a pill & go to my sisters. I guess I don't blame him. He's trying to clean up the house but it's just stirring it up. The kitchen & familily room are the most toxic. He still won't give up the moldly couch & lounger. Do you think he could vacuum it to death & get the mold out? I know it's not usually done on fabric. I don't know if I can have Thanksgiving in my house this year. A never ending nightmare!!! > > Oh ya, He took me to a psychiatrist today. The guy was 90 years old. Didn't ask me that much but decided I was depressed (because I have fatigue from mold exposure) & wanted to put me on PAXEL. My sister told my husband that I would not go on antidepressents but He tried anyway. I guess he thinks that will make things all better & of course it's all in my head. And this psychiatrists office was so dirty & dusty I had to go outside several times during the session. OMG it was awful. I couldn't breath. $200 was this guys fee which I guess my inlaws are paying for. They all think I > am crazy. I just want to be mold free & healthy again. That's all. We all do! I wish family could understand better. I think my sister does to a certain degree. I know my husband is getting stressed with this illness. > > I hope you can have a nice holiday anyway. Hang in there!!! Loni > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Loni, What they don't realize Loni, a high percentage of your stress and anxiety comes from spouses or other family members that don't understand the effects these toxins can have on many individuals. I must say again, you are not alone on this. I'm sorry to say that it is not uncommon. It took me years for my family to accept the problem, but they still do not fully understand or believe mold can do this, until they started seeing alot more in the media and even then. They couldn't believe the strokelike episodes my wife had, until they actually experienced her having one in an attys office, that was highly contaminated. This was even with a mask on. But the atty refused to relocate to a safe area for my wife. They got so upset and even to the point of freaked out and even though it affects me greatly every time this happens to Sharon, this was just another episode to us and in a way I kindof had to laugh because it was a mild one. My dad & I had to carry her out of the office and sit her in a chair until she somewhat recovered. I see or hear this sort of an affect everyday and even though I know what's causing these type of symptoms, many times I just hang my head in disbelief. Saying to myself, I can't believe this, but yet it is happening right in front of me. And I know this is also happening to many others and this is where I get so angry that our medical community in general thinks and reacts the same way. So I can understand why so many think the way they do, and at times you really want to smack them up side the head. Wake up, pay attention, read the information, LISTEN TO ME, and they still refuse to, ignoring what is right in front of them, under their nose and in it. But this does not make things any easier for those that are suffering, and this is why we are all here, a place where we can express our ourselves about the affects that this has had on our health, rant, rave and anything else you would like to do (within reason & the law lol). Loni and everyone else, this is what I do on a daily basis, I talk to people all over the country that have a hard time accepting or believing the effects of this type of exposure. As said, dealing with the cantbee's. If you would like, I would be more than happy to speak to anyones parents, brothers,sisters, spouses and hopefully we can make some headway. Normally I do have pretty good success rate at this. Why most families, spouses, especially male, have such a hard time understanding is some times beyond me.(and yes, at times, I put myself in this group) You can email me and I will get back with you. DON'T POST YOUR PHONE NUMBER ON THE BOARD. I do understand how and why some husbands have a difficult time dealing with the effects of these toxins on ones health, especially if they are not affected and even if they are, they still don't want to believe or think it is possible and don't know how to handle it. Their answer many times, is to leave the relationship. Why I'm not sure. They can't deal with the downward spiral of their own health, they can't admit to it, or they feel useless watching their spouse or children go in the same direction and can't afford or find the correct professional help that they desperately need. I guess there is alot of guilt and they blame themselves because they can't do what a big part of their " job " should be, and that is to take care of and protect their loved ones. Sometimes the anger they direct at others is because they are frustrated/helpless and don't know what else to do at that particular moment. But it is not directed at you (even though you may be the one hearing it) or ment to hurt you. In a way, it is a cry for help also. KC > > > > I have had very little success in convincing my family about this. > My own husband has not > > been very supportive, and when I found my mother-in-law's house to > have a severe mold > > problem, none of them believed me, even thought I was > incapacitated and slept outside on > > the grass for several hours trying to throw off the effects of the > toxins. They were not > > interested in the idea of mold in their home- thought it must be > something else. > > Meanwhile, she is very allergic to mold and she knows it, and may > be dying from the > > exposure, slowly. > > > > I am slowly comng to believe that the neurotoxic effects of the > mold are much more > > profound than even I could believe before. > > > > Every single person that worked in my moldy basement became angry > just from being in > > the space. > > > > Every single person living in this house before remediation was > seriously depressed. > > > > When finally all the active mold was removed from my house, my > husband stopped being > > angry for the first time in years. His sense of humor started to > return, and I started to > > recognise his old personality. > > > > There is a specific part of the brain that deals with the anger > response, I don't remember > > wht it is. I think that many of the psychological illnesses that > have become rampant today > > may be partly due to the epidemic of mold and mold illnesses from > the incorrect building > > practices that became standard 30 or 40 years ago, before anyone > knew about mold. I > > have worked with a professional guy who works with those who have > had impairment in > > the brain from trauma- he is truly amazing. He said to me that he > is coming to believe > > that there is no true psychological cause for mental impairment, > that it is entirely possible > > that it is due to physical causes. > > > > He knows of people with " allergy " who had serious brain problems > (autism), when the > > allergies were treated, the autism went away. > > > > This suggests a neurotoxic effect from either the environment, or > the diet. Since I have > > had such personal experience with mental impairment in this > environment, I am certain of > > it's truth- mold and mycotoxin exposure directly causes various > mental impairments, > > including depression, anger, anxiety, etc. This is just my > personal experience. > > > > My experience really sheds light on why the complete denial, at > least in my mind. > > > > And I don't think you could get a serious researcher to touch it > with a 10 foot pole. At > > least if they still wanted to have a career afterwards. > > > > Thank God for the courageous doctors who are doggedly working to > help us in spite of the > > pressure from the opposition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Thanks , My sister has been a great help. Loni carondeen <kdeanstudios@...> wrote: Loni- gee what a waste of money- for $200 you could have gotten a hepa cleaner- or paid for a couple of good house cleaners- don't be bullied into bad health- I was for years-an antideppressant? great if you are freaking out- but with your fragile health-another chemical might not be the best idea-I hope your sister can stay the course > > & : We are the three muskateers: I had some oxygen therapy today & felt good, then sat in the room my husband cleaned yesterday & had a major head explosion. He is getting really frustrated with me & said he's had it. Told me to take a pill & go to my sisters. I guess I don't blame him. He's trying to clean up the house but it's just stirring it up. The kitchen & familily room are the most toxic. He still won't give up the moldly couch & lounger. Do you think he could vacuum it to death & get the mold out? I know it's not usually done on fabric. I don't know if I can have Thanksgiving in my house this year. A never ending nightmare!!! > > Oh ya, He took me to a psychiatrist today. The guy was 90 years old. Didn't ask me that much but decided I was depressed (because I have fatigue from mold exposure) & wanted to put me on PAXEL. My sister told my husband that I would not go on antidepressents but He tried anyway. I guess he thinks that will make things all better & of course it's all in my head. And this psychiatrists office was so dirty & dusty I had to go outside several times during the session. OMG it was awful. I couldn't breath. $200 was this guys fee which I guess my inlaws are paying for. They all think I > am crazy. I just want to be mold free & healthy again. That's all. We all do! I wish family could understand better. I think my sister does to a certain degree. I know my husband is getting stressed with this illness. > > I hope you can have a nice holiday anyway. Hang in there!!! Loni > FAIR USE NOTICE: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 , Were you infecting each new house you moved into with your belongings?Loni ldelp84227 <ldelp84227@...> wrote: Hang in there girls. It is hard for people that are not affected by the mold to understand the pain we suffer. It was hard for my husband to understand and he still sometimes gets frustrated. We had 3 moldy places and I can tell you I felt like a burden. In the last moldy place my husband had seizures. He hallusinated on zoloft big time and eventually had a blood clot by his heart. This was during a move and everything was getting kicked up and he didn't wear a mask when I told him to. He now also chemical type asthma but not at my level. Atleast he can work and has recovered. It was very hard for my daughter to understand why we had to throw away so much of our lives and especially when she couldn't wear fragrances cuz of reactive airways, asthma. > > > > I have had very little success in convincing my family about this. > My own husband has not > > been very supportive, and when I found my mother-in-law's house to > have a severe mold > > problem, none of them believed me, even thought I was > incapacitated and slept outside on > > the grass for several hours trying to throw off the effects of the > toxins. They were not > > interested in the idea of mold in their home- thought it must be > something else. > > Meanwhile, she is very allergic to mold and she knows it, and may > be dying from the > > exposure, slowly. > > > > I am slowly comng to believe that the neurotoxic effects of the > mold are much more > > profound than even I could believe before. > > > > Every single person that worked in my moldy basement became angry > just from being in > > the space. > > > > Every single person living in this house before remediation was > seriously depressed. > > > > When finally all the active mold was removed from my house, my > husband stopped being > > angry for the first time in years. His sense of humor started to > return, and I started to > > recognise his old personality. > > > > There is a specific part of the brain that deals with the anger > response, I don't remember > > wht it is. I think that many of the psychological illnesses that > have become rampant today > > may be partly due to the epidemic of mold and mold illnesses from > the incorrect building > > practices that became standard 30 or 40 years ago, before anyone > knew about mold. I > > have worked with a professional guy who works with those who have > had impairment in > > the brain from trauma- he is truly amazing. He said to me that he > is coming to believe > > that there is no true psychological cause for mental impairment, > that it is entirely possible > > that it is due to physical causes. > > > > He knows of people with " allergy " who had serious brain problems > (autism), when the > > allergies were treated, the autism went away. > > > > This suggests a neurotoxic effect from either the environment, or > the diet. Since I have > > had such personal experience with mental impairment in this > environment, I am certain of > > it's truth- mold and mycotoxin exposure directly causes various > mental impairments, > > including depression, anger, anxiety, etc. This is just my > personal experience. > > > > My experience really sheds light on why the complete denial, at > least in my mind. > > > > And I don't think you could get a serious researcher to touch it > with a 10 foot pole. At > > least if they still wanted to have a career afterwards. > > > > Thank God for the courageous doctors who are doggedly working to > help us in spite of the > > pressure from the opposition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 KC, this is so supportive. I so appreciate this response. said he had had it with me last night & it is very hurtful. But I know he is trying to work,clean the house,take care of the kids, & he is very stressed now too. I do think it would help if you could talk with him & it always seems to go over better from someone else. I will email you later on this. He does not understand at all & just wants me to take drugs to deal with it. Loni tigerpaw2c <tigerpaw2c@...> wrote: Loni, What they don't realize Loni, a high percentage of your stress and anxiety comes from spouses or other family members that don't understand the effects these toxins can have on many individuals. I must say again, you are not alone on this. I'm sorry to say that it is not uncommon. It took me years for my family to accept the problem, but they still do not fully understand or believe mold can do this, until they started seeing alot more in the media and even then. They couldn't believe the strokelike episodes my wife had, until they actually experienced her having one in an attys office, that was highly contaminated. This was even with a mask on. But the atty refused to relocate to a safe area for my wife. They got so upset and even to the point of freaked out and even though it affects me greatly every time this happens to Sharon, this was just another episode to us and in a way I kindof had to laugh because it was a mild one. My dad & I had to carry her out of the office and sit her in a chair until she somewhat recovered. I see or hear this sort of an affect everyday and even though I know what's causing these type of symptoms, many times I just hang my head in disbelief. Saying to myself, I can't believe this, but yet it is happening right in front of me. And I know this is also happening to many others and this is where I get so angry that our medical community in general thinks and reacts the same way. So I can understand why so many think the way they do, and at times you really want to smack them up side the head. Wake up, pay attention, read the information, LISTEN TO ME, and they still refuse to, ignoring what is right in front of them, under their nose and in it. But this does not make things any easier for those that are suffering, and this is why we are all here, a place where we can express our ourselves about the affects that this has had on our health, rant, rave and anything else you would like to do (within reason & the law lol). Loni and everyone else, this is what I do on a daily basis, I talk to people all over the country that have a hard time accepting or believing the effects of this type of exposure. As said, dealing with the cantbee's. If you would like, I would be more than happy to speak to anyones parents, brothers,sisters, spouses and hopefully we can make some headway. Normally I do have pretty good success rate at this. Why most families, spouses, especially male, have such a hard time understanding is some times beyond me.(and yes, at times, I put myself in this group) You can email me and I will get back with you. DON'T POST YOUR PHONE NUMBER ON THE BOARD. I do understand how and why some husbands have a difficult time dealing with the effects of these toxins on ones health, especially if they are not affected and even if they are, they still don't want to believe or think it is possible and don't know how to handle it. Their answer many times, is to leave the relationship. Why I'm not sure. They can't deal with the downward spiral of their own health, they can't admit to it, or they feel useless watching their spouse or children go in the same direction and can't afford or find the correct professional help that they desperately need. I guess there is alot of guilt and they blame themselves because they can't do what a big part of their " job " should be, and that is to take care of and protect their loved ones. Sometimes the anger they direct at others is because they are frustrated/helpless and don't know what else to do at that particular moment. But it is not directed at you (even though you may be the one hearing it) or ment to hurt you. In a way, it is a cry for help also. KC > > > > I have had very little success in convincing my family about this. > My own husband has not > > been very supportive, and when I found my mother-in-law's house to > have a severe mold > > problem, none of them believed me, even thought I was > incapacitated and slept outside on > > the grass for several hours trying to throw off the effects of the > toxins. They were not > > interested in the idea of mold in their home- thought it must be > something else. > > Meanwhile, she is very allergic to mold and she knows it, and may > be dying from the > > exposure, slowly. > > > > I am slowly comng to believe that the neurotoxic effects of the > mold are much more > > profound than even I could believe before. > > > > Every single person that worked in my moldy basement became angry > just from being in > > the space. > > > > Every single person living in this house before remediation was > seriously depressed. > > > > When finally all the active mold was removed from my house, my > husband stopped being > > angry for the first time in years. His sense of humor started to > return, and I started to > > recognise his old personality. > > > > There is a specific part of the brain that deals with the anger > response, I don't remember > > wht it is. I think that many of the psychological illnesses that > have become rampant today > > may be partly due to the epidemic of mold and mold illnesses from > the incorrect building > > practices that became standard 30 or 40 years ago, before anyone > knew about mold. I > > have worked with a professional guy who works with those who have > had impairment in > > the brain from trauma- he is truly amazing. He said to me that he > is coming to believe > > that there is no true psychological cause for mental impairment, > that it is entirely possible > > that it is due to physical causes. > > > > He knows of people with " allergy " who had serious brain problems > (autism), when the > > allergies were treated, the autism went away. > > > > This suggests a neurotoxic effect from either the environment, or > the diet. Since I have > > had such personal experience with mental impairment in this > environment, I am certain of > > it's truth- mold and mycotoxin exposure directly causes various > mental impairments, > > including depression, anger, anxiety, etc. This is just my > personal experience. > > > > My experience really sheds light on why the complete denial, at > least in my mind. > > > > And I don't think you could get a serious researcher to touch it > with a 10 foot pole. At > > least if they still wanted to have a career afterwards. > > > > Thank God for the courageous doctors who are doggedly working to > help us in spite of the > > pressure from the opposition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 KC, YOU HAVE MY PERMISSION TO GIVE LONI MY PHONE NUMBER, IF YOU THINK THAT MIGHT HELP HER HUBBY TO UNDERSTAND. I'D BE MORE THAN WILLING TO TELL HIM ABOUT MY SEVERE ONSET, & YES--WHAT MOLD CAN & DOES DO TO PEOPLE! TAKE CARE, VICTORIA Re: [] Re: " Cantbees " & a Proposal > KC, this is so supportive. I so appreciate this response. said he had > had it with me last night & it is very hurtful. But I know he is trying to > work,clean the house,take care of the kids, & he is very stressed now too. > I do think it would help if you could talk with him & it always seems to > go over better from someone else. I will email you later on this. He does > not understand at all & just wants me to take drugs to deal with it. Loni > > tigerpaw2c <tigerpaw2c@...> wrote: Loni, > > What they don't realize Loni, a high percentage of your stress and > anxiety comes from spouses or other family members that don't > understand the effects these toxins can have on many individuals. I > must say again, you are not alone on this. I'm sorry to say that it > is not uncommon. It took me years for my family to accept the > problem, but they still do not fully understand or believe mold can > do this, until they started seeing alot more in the media and even > then. > > They couldn't believe the strokelike episodes my wife had, until > they actually experienced her having one in an attys office, that > was highly contaminated. This was even with a mask on. But the atty > refused to relocate to a safe area for my wife. They got so upset > and even to the point of freaked out and even though it affects me > greatly every time this happens to Sharon, this was just another > episode to us and in a way I kindof had to laugh because it was a > mild one. My dad & I had to carry her out of the office and sit her > in a chair until she somewhat recovered. > > I see or hear this sort of an affect everyday and even though I know > what's causing these type of symptoms, many times I just hang my > head in disbelief. Saying to myself, I can't believe this, but yet > it is happening right in front of me. And I know this is also > happening to many others and this is where I get so angry that our > medical community in general thinks and reacts the same way. > > So I can understand why so many think the way they do, and at times > you really want to smack them up side the head. Wake up, pay > attention, read the information, LISTEN TO ME, and they still refuse > to, ignoring what is right in front of them, under their nose and in > it. But this does not make things any easier for those that are > suffering, and this is why we are all here, a place where we can > express our ourselves about the affects that this has had on our > health, rant, rave and anything else you would like to do (within > reason & the law lol). > > Loni and everyone else, this is what I do on a daily basis, I talk > to people all over the country that have a hard time accepting or > believing the effects of this type of exposure. As said, > dealing with the cantbee's. If you would like, I would be more than > happy to speak to anyones parents, brothers,sisters, spouses and > hopefully we can make some headway. Normally I do have pretty good > success rate at this. Why most families, spouses, especially male, > have such a hard time understanding is some times beyond me.(and > yes, at times, I put myself in this group) You can email me and I > will get back with you. DON'T POST YOUR PHONE NUMBER ON THE BOARD. > > I do understand how and why some husbands have a difficult time > dealing with the effects of these toxins on ones health, especially > if they are not affected and even if they are, they still don't want > to believe or think it is possible and don't know how to handle it. > Their answer many times, is to leave the relationship. Why I'm not > sure. They can't deal with the downward spiral of their own health, > they can't admit to it, or they feel useless watching their spouse > or children go in the same direction and can't afford or find the > correct professional help that they desperately need. I guess there > is alot of guilt and they blame themselves because they can't do > what a big part of their " job " should be, and that is to take care > of and protect their loved ones. Sometimes the anger they direct at > others is because they are frustrated/helpless and don't know what > else to do at that particular moment. But it is not directed at you > (even though you may be the one hearing it) or ment to hurt you. In > a way, it is a cry for help also. > > KC > > > > >> > >> > I have had very little success in convincing my family about > this. >> My own husband has not >> > been very supportive, and when I found my mother-in-law's house > to >> have a severe mold >> > problem, none of them believed me, even thought I was >> incapacitated and slept outside on >> > the grass for several hours trying to throw off the effects of > the >> toxins. They were not >> > interested in the idea of mold in their home- thought it must be >> something else. >> > Meanwhile, she is very allergic to mold and she knows it, and > may >> be dying from the >> > exposure, slowly. >> > >> > I am slowly comng to believe that the neurotoxic effects of the >> mold are much more >> > profound than even I could believe before. >> > >> > Every single person that worked in my moldy basement became > angry >> just from being in >> > the space. >> > >> > Every single person living in this house before remediation was >> seriously depressed. >> > >> > When finally all the active mold was removed from my house, my >> husband stopped being >> > angry for the first time in years. His sense of humor started to >> return, and I started to >> > recognise his old personality. >> > >> > There is a specific part of the brain that deals with the anger >> response, I don't remember >> > wht it is. I think that many of the psychological illnesses that >> have become rampant today >> > may be partly due to the epidemic of mold and mold illnesses > from >> the incorrect building >> > practices that became standard 30 or 40 years ago, before anyone >> knew about mold. I >> > have worked with a professional guy who works with those who > have >> had impairment in >> > the brain from trauma- he is truly amazing. He said to me that > he >> is coming to believe >> > that there is no true psychological cause for mental impairment, >> that it is entirely possible >> > that it is due to physical causes. >> > >> > He knows of people with " allergy " who had serious brain problems >> (autism), when the >> > allergies were treated, the autism went away. >> > >> > This suggests a neurotoxic effect from either the environment, > or >> the diet. Since I have >> > had such personal experience with mental impairment in this >> environment, I am certain of >> > it's truth- mold and mycotoxin exposure directly causes various >> mental impairments, >> > including depression, anger, anxiety, etc. This is just my >> personal experience. >> > >> > My experience really sheds light on why the complete denial, at >> least in my mind. >> > >> > And I don't think you could get a serious researcher to touch it >> with a 10 foot pole. At >> > least if they still wanted to have a career afterwards. >> > >> > Thank God for the courageous doctors who are doggedly working to >> help us in spite of the >> > pressure from the opposition. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> FAIR USE NOTICE: >> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 This is a very important statement: >I guess there > is alot of guilt and they blame themselves because they can't do > what a big part of their " job " should be, and that is to take care > of and protect their loved ones. Sometimes the anger they direct at > others is because they are frustrated/helpless and don't know what > else to do at that particular moment. But it is not directed at you > (even though you may be the one hearing it) or ment to hurt you. In > a way, it is a cry for help also. I also appreciate the help and support. Also, many men experience depression as a form of anger, and of course, it is human to want someone to blame. Men are not made to be able to handle helplessness, or a lack of control, it really jerks their chain. Women all have the potential to have kids, the process of which is entirely out of our control, and it comes out eventually anyway, usually for the better, but you never know. So, thanks for the openness on the male point of view. Loni, > I do understand how and why some husbands have a difficult time > dealing with the effects of these toxins on ones health, especially > if they are not affected and even if they are, they still don't want > to believe or think it is possible and don't know how to handle it. > Their answer many times, is to leave the relationship. Why I'm not > sure. They can't deal with the downward spiral of their own health, > they can't admit to it, or they feel useless watching their spouse > or children go in the same direction and can't afford or find the > correct professional help that they desperately need. I guess there > is alot of guilt and they blame themselves because they can't do > what a big part of their " job " should be, and that is to take care > of and protect their loved ones. Sometimes the anger they direct at > others is because they are frustrated/helpless and don't know what > else to do at that particular moment. But it is not directed at you > (even though you may be the one hearing it) or ment to hurt you. In > a way, it is a cry for help also. > > KC > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 , Thanks. You hit it right on the head, out of our control and the situation can't be controlled. And because of this, I guess, we start to lose control and feel worthless when you can't protect your family. KC Loni, > > > I do understand how and why some husbands have a difficult time > > dealing with the effects of these toxins on ones health, especially > > if they are not affected and even if they are, they still don't want > > to believe or think it is possible and don't know how to handle it. > > Their answer many times, is to leave the relationship. Why I'm not > > sure. They can't deal with the downward spiral of their own health, > > they can't admit to it, or they feel useless watching their spouse > > or children go in the same direction and can't afford or find the > > correct professional help that they desperately need. I guess there > > is alot of guilt and they blame themselves because they can't do > > what a big part of their " job " should be, and that is to take care > > of and protect their loved ones. Sometimes the anger they direct at > > others is because they are frustrated/helpless and don't know what > > else to do at that particular moment. But it is not directed at you > > (even though you may be the one hearing it) or ment to hurt you. In > > a way, it is a cry for help also. > > > > KC > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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