Re: Re: CSM and Removing spackle and paint

[Guest guest]

Harriet,

Unfortunately, ignorance is the still rampant. But that doesn't mean

we should let the ignorant should prevail. We have to educate them.

A little history to understand your building depts position, wrong

though it is in my opinion. The first document to address the mold

issue was the NYC Dept of Health guidelines. It was intended only for

their own internal use by maintenance staff. Others adopted it

because there was nothing else.

Their criteria for determining whether a homeowner or janitor could

remove the mold or a professional was based on the area of visible

mold. The first level was 10 sq feet. Later, EPA used the square

footage criteria in their guidance but they altered the suggestions

and the sizes. Others followed suit. S520 did not use visible mold at

all, choosing different methods.

Now it appears that those responsible for the maintenance and

cleaning of buildings are FINALLY discovering the existance of

guidance documents. Unfortunately, they are interpreting those

guidelines to their own benefit rather than the way the writers

intended. NONE of the documents use sq footage to answer the question

of whether or not mold needs to be removed. Visible mold only

addresses the question what procedures and methods are suggested.

They are also clear about the very likely possibility of mold that is

too small to see or mold that is hidden behind objects or inside

structures.

See page 16 of EPA's Mold Remediation for Schools and Commercial

Buildings - PLEASE, everyone, download this excellent document, its

free at http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/mold_remediation.html

Finally, just because they refuse to do things right, doesn't mean we

have to give in. We may go down fighting but we should firmly insist

that the available authoritative documents and guidance be known and

followed.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Hey there. First I want to thank everyone who gave me

> their experiences with CSM. Sounds like anything

> could happen. Great. LOL

>

> Okay, I know people are going to think I'm crazy for

> even thinking of doing something like this, BUT (head

> in hands)....the landlord spackled and painted over

> the mold etc. in my old bedroom. Is there any way of

> safely getting those layers off so that the mold is

> visible again so that the Department of Inspection is

> forced to come out?

>

> Aaaaahhhhh, Sharon, I can hear you screaming from

> here. Loudly. I know, I'm still hanging onto the

> idea of getting a settlement with the tips of my

> fingernails.

>

> Thanks for any ideas. FYI: I can't get the building

> inspectors to come out unles they can see AND smell

> the mold. Madness.

>

> Harriet

>

[Guest guest]

Harriet,

Go down to your basement and photograph any mold you see there, measuring

the square footage as you go. (having a visible ruler in each photo helps)

is there any way I can post some of my mold pics here? I have some doosies..

I'd like the experts here to tell me if the black and white stripes I have

in my basement (sort of zebra-like) are stachy.. We already have verified

stachy and aspergillius in our water heater room.. but there is lots of

other mold on exterior walls.. sort of black and white and a weird flat

grey..(at first I thoght it was putty)

On 11/25/05, Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...> wrote:

>

> Harriet,

>

> Unfortunately, ignorance is the still rampant. But that doesn't mean

> we should let the ignorant should prevail. We have to educate them.

>

> A little history to understand your building depts position, wrong

> though it is in my opinion. The first document to address the mold

> issue was the NYC Dept of Health guidelines. It was intended only for

> their own internal use by maintenance staff. Others adopted it

> because there was nothing else.

>

> Their criteria for determining whether a homeowner or janitor could

> remove the mold or a professional was based on the area of visible

> mold. The first level was 10 sq feet. Later, EPA used the square

> footage criteria in their guidance but they altered the suggestions

> and the sizes. Others followed suit. S520 did not use visible mold at

> all, choosing different methods.

>

> Now it appears that those responsible for the maintenance and

> cleaning of buildings are FINALLY discovering the existance of

> guidance documents. Unfortunately, they are interpreting those

> guidelines to their own benefit rather than the way the writers

> intended. NONE of the documents use sq footage to answer the question

> of whether or not mold needs to be removed. Visible mold only

> addresses the question what procedures and methods are suggested.

> They are also clear about the very likely possibility of mold that is

> too small to see or mold that is hidden behind objects or inside

> structures.

>

> See page 16 of EPA's Mold Remediation for Schools and Commercial

> Buildings - PLEASE, everyone, download this excellent document, its

> free at http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/mold_remediation.html

>

> Finally, just because they refuse to do things right, doesn't mean we

> have to give in. We may go down fighting but we should firmly insist

> that the available authoritative documents and guidance be known and

> followed.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > Hey there. First I want to thank everyone who gave me

> > their experiences with CSM. Sounds like anything

> > could happen. Great. LOL

> >

> > Okay, I know people are going to think I'm crazy for

> > even thinking of doing something like this, BUT (head

> > in hands)....the landlord spackled and painted over

> > the mold etc. in my old bedroom. Is there any way of

> > safely getting those layers off so that the mold is

> > visible again so that the Department of Inspection is

> > forced to come out?

> >

> > Aaaaahhhhh, Sharon, I can hear you screaming from

> > here. Loudly. I know, I'm still hanging onto the

> > idea of getting a settlement with the tips of my

> > fingernails.

> >

> > Thanks for any ideas. FYI: I can't get the building

> > inspectors to come out unles they can see AND smell

> > the mold. Madness.

> >

> > Harriet

> >

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What about when the mold is not contiguous. For example, if each plank is

1/2 covered by mold, and only around 1/2 of the planks have mold, then there

are no single spots that have 10 square feet, but together, all the small

stripes and spots add up to more than that.. (HOW to prove that????)

That is the problem I have as clearly, my landlord is NOT going to spend the

money to remediate unless he is DRAGGED there by laws. They haven't even

admitted that we have mold, despite a highly respected ($2000) environmental

testing lab coming out - (and that said 'yes, you have a serious problem'.)

They now have a notice of violation out with the building inspectors but

they seem to be ignoring it so far. They only have a few more days to 'fix'

the problem before the follow-up inspection and honestly, even with the

proper equip. it would take weeks.

We feel that they are trying to force us out with biological terrorism. (we

live under rent control.)

*Also, does anyone have any great sample 'we demand you fix this mold now'

letters?*

Thank you!

On 11/26/05, LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

>

> Harriet,

>

> Go down to your basement and photograph any mold you see there, measuring

> the square footage as you go. (having a visible ruler in each photo helps)

>

> is there any way I can post some of my mold pics here? I have some

> doosies.. I'd like the experts here to tell me if the black and white

> stripes I have in my basement (sort of zebra-like) are stachy.. We already

> have verified stachy and aspergillius in our water heater room.. but there

> is lots of other mold on exterior walls.. sort of black and white and a

> weird flat grey..(at first I thoght it was putty)

>

> On 11/25/05, Carl E. Grimes <grimes@... > wrote:

> >

> > Harriet,

> >

> > Unfortunately, ignorance is the still rampant. But that doesn't mean

> > we should let the ignorant should prevail. We have to educate them.

> >

> > A little history to understand your building depts position, wrong

> > though it is in my opinion. The first document to address the mold

> > issue was the NYC Dept of Health guidelines. It was intended only for

> > their own internal use by maintenance staff. Others adopted it

> > because there was nothing else.

> >

> > Their criteria for determining whether a homeowner or janitor could

> > remove the mold or a professional was based on the area of visible

> > mold. The first level was 10 sq feet. Later, EPA used the square

> > footage criteria in their guidance but they altered the suggestions

> > and the sizes. Others followed suit. S520 did not use visible mold at

> > all, choosing different methods.

> >

> > Now it appears that those responsible for the maintenance and

> > cleaning of buildings are FINALLY discovering the existance of

> > guidance documents. Unfortunately, they are interpreting those

> > guidelines to their own benefit rather than the way the writers

> > intended. NONE of the documents use sq footage to answer the question

> > of whether or not mold needs to be removed. Visible mold only

> > addresses the question what procedures and methods are suggested.

> > They are also clear about the very likely possibility of mold that is

> > too small to see or mold that is hidden behind objects or inside

> > structures.

> >

> > See page 16 of EPA's Mold Remediation for Schools and Commercial

> > Buildings - PLEASE, everyone, download this excellent document, its

> > free at http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/mold_remediation.html

> >

> > Finally, just because they refuse to do things right, doesn't mean we

> > have to give in. We may go down fighting but we should firmly insist

> > that the available authoritative documents and guidance be known and

> > followed.

> >

> > Carl Grimes

> > Healthy Habitats LLC

> >

> > -----

> > > Hey there. First I want to thank everyone who gave me

> > > their experiences with CSM. Sounds like anything

> > > could happen. Great. LOL

> > >

> > > Okay, I know people are going to think I'm crazy for

> > > even thinking of doing something like this, BUT (head

> > > in hands)....the landlord spackled and painted over

> > > the mold etc. in my old bedroom. Is there any way of

> > > safely getting those layers off so that the mold is

> > > visible again so that the Department of Inspection is

> > > forced to come out?

> > >

> > > Aaaaahhhhh, Sharon, I can hear you screaming from

> > > here. Loudly. I know, I'm still hanging onto the

> > > idea of getting a settlement with the tips of my

> > > fingernails.

> > >

> > > Thanks for any ideas. FYI: I can't get the building

> > > inspectors to come out unles they can see AND smell

> > > the mold. Madness.

> > >

> > > Harriet

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

This post won't be of much direct help but hopefully will provide

more information to understand what's going on.

The 10 sq feet guildeline has many weaknesses and ambiguities, the

primary one being the one you mentioned. There is no consensus on how

to determine 10 sq ft.

But remember, the square footage is meant only to suggest procedures

and methods to remove the mold. It doesn't say if you have less than

10 sq ft then you don't have to remove it, but if it is over 10 sq ft

you do. EPA and S520 is clear about the role of professional

judgement. S520 goes further by defining itself as a Standard of

Care: " Practices that are common to reasonably prudent members of the

trade who are recognized in the industry as qualified and comptent. "

Obviously, the landlord doesn't care about a Standard of Care. As for

a letter that will " make " him behave, I only wish. If someone wants

to be dishonest, ignore authorities and not do the right thing, then

that's why we have the courts. Even then, some found guilty refuse to

pay or to follow the courts orders.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> What about when the mold is not contiguous. For example, if each

plank

> is 1/2 covered by mold, and only around 1/2 of the planks have mold,

> then there are no single spots that have 10 square feet, but together,

> all the small stripes and spots add up to more than that.. (HOW to

> prove that????)

>

> That is the problem I have as clearly, my landlord is NOT going to

> spend the money to remediate unless he is DRAGGED there by laws. They

> haven't even admitted that we have mold, despite a highly respected

> ($2000) environmental testing lab coming out - (and that said 'yes,

> you have a serious problem'.)

>

> They now have a notice of violation out with the building inspectors

> but they seem to be ignoring it so far. They only have a few more days

> to 'fix' the problem before the follow-up inspection and honestly,

> even with the proper equip. it would take weeks.

>

> We feel that they are trying to force us out with biological

> terrorism. (we live under rent control.)

>

> *Also, does anyone have any great sample 'we demand you fix this mold

> now' letters?*

>

> Thank you!

>

>

>

> On 11/26/05, LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

> >

> > Harriet,

> >

> > Go down to your basement and photograph any mold you see there,

> > measuring the square footage as you go. (having a visible ruler in

> > each photo helps)

> >

> > is there any way I can post some of my mold pics here? I have some

> > doosies.. I'd like the experts here to tell me if the black and

> > white stripes I have in my basement (sort of zebra-like) are

> > stachy.. We already have verified stachy and aspergillius in our

> > water heater room.. but there is lots of other mold on exterior

> > walls.. sort of black and white and a weird flat grey..(at first I

> > thoght it was putty)

> >

> > On 11/25/05, Carl E. Grimes <grimes@... > wrote:

> > >

> > > Harriet,

> > >

> > > Unfortunately, ignorance is the still rampant. But that doesn't

> > > mean we should let the ignorant should prevail. We have to educate

> > > them.

> > >

> > > A little history to understand your building depts position, wrong

> > > though it is in my opinion. The first document to address the mold

> > > issue was the NYC Dept of Health guidelines. It was intended only

> > > for their own internal use by maintenance staff. Others adopted it

> > > because there was nothing else.

> > >

> > > Their criteria for determining whether a homeowner or janitor

> > > could remove the mold or a professional was based on the area of

> > > visible mold. The first level was 10 sq feet. Later, EPA used the

> > > square footage criteria in their guidance but they altered the

> > > suggestions and the sizes. Others followed suit. S520 did not use

> > > visible mold at all, choosing different methods.

> > >

> > > Now it appears that those responsible for the maintenance and

> > > cleaning of buildings are FINALLY discovering the existance of

> > > guidance documents. Unfortunately, they are interpreting those

> > > guidelines to their own benefit rather than the way the writers

> > > intended. NONE of the documents use sq footage to answer the

> > > question of whether or not mold needs to be removed. Visible mold

> > > only addresses the question what procedures and methods are

> > > suggested. They are also clear about the very likely possibility

> > > of mold that is too small to see or mold that is hidden behind

> > > objects or inside structures.

> > >

> > > See page 16 of EPA's Mold Remediation for Schools and Commercial

> > > Buildings - PLEASE, everyone, download this excellent document,

> > > its free at http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/mold_remediation.html

> > >

> > > Finally, just because they refuse to do things right, doesn't mean

> > > we have to give in. We may go down fighting but we should firmly

> > > insist that the available authoritative documents and guidance be

> > > known and followed.

> > >

> > > Carl Grimes

> > > Healthy Habitats LLC

> > >

> > > -----

> > > > Hey there. First I want to thank everyone who gave me

> > > > their experiences with CSM. Sounds like anything

> > > > could happen. Great. LOL

> > > >

> > > > Okay, I know people are going to think I'm crazy for

> > > > even thinking of doing something like this, BUT (head

> > > > in hands)....the landlord spackled and painted over

> > > > the mold etc. in my old bedroom. Is there any way of

> > > > safely getting those layers off so that the mold is

> > > > visible again so that the Department of Inspection is

> > > > forced to come out?

> > > >

> > > > Aaaaahhhhh, Sharon, I can hear you screaming from

> > > > here. Loudly. I know, I'm still hanging onto the

> > > > idea of getting a settlement with the tips of my

> > > > fingernails.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for any ideas. FYI: I can't get the building

> > > > inspectors to come out unles they can see AND smell

> > > > the mold. Madness.

> > > >

> > > > Harriet

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

KC,

You are right about not always being able to identify mold from

photos or even on-site. Yes, there are approximately 20,000 different

black molds, Aspergillus niger being one of the most common. If the

mold is grown under ideal laboratory conditions forming perfect

colonies, it can often be identified by sight with some training. But

I rarely see such well formed colonies in the real world. And the

view under the microscope is entirely different requiring specific

training. Some, such as Aspergillus and Penicillium cannot be

identified under the microscope but have to be cultured. They have to

see how it grows and sporulates.

Go to Jeff May's Web site: www.myhouseiskillingme.com for some photos

of what mold looks like in under the microscope. And those are VERY

different from the well formed colonies you see from labs such as Dr

Fungus, Aerotech labs, EMLabs & others. There is also a good

comparison of the appearance of colonies, under the microscope and in

real life on http://healthandenergy.com/stachybotrys.htm about 2/3 of

the way down.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Quackadillian,

>

> Sure you can put a couple of pictures in the photo section. There are

> some that I have to remove because they take up alot of memory and

> does not supply you with that much. So please be limited with

> your pictures. If you are asking for someone to look at them to

> determine what type of mold it is, that is impossible. Nobody can do

> this without proper testing. I think Carl had mentioned that there are

> 20,000 molds that are black and you can have the same mold growing on

> the same surface with 5 different colors.

>

> KC

>

>

> > >

> > > Harriet,

> > >

> > > Unfortunately, ignorance is the still rampant. But that doesn't

> mean

> > > we should let the ignorant should prevail. We have to educate

> them.

> > >

> > > A little history to understand your building depts position,

> wrong

> > > though it is in my opinion. The first document to address the

> mold

> > > issue was the NYC Dept of Health guidelines. It was intended

> only for

> > > their own internal use by maintenance staff. Others adopted it

> > > because there was nothing else.

> > >

> > > Their criteria for determining whether a homeowner or janitor

> could

> > > remove the mold or a professional was based on the area of

> visible

> > > mold. The first level was 10 sq feet. Later, EPA used the square

> > > footage criteria in their guidance but they altered the

> suggestions

> > > and the sizes. Others followed suit. S520 did not use visible

> mold at

> > > all, choosing different methods.

> > >

> > > Now it appears that those responsible for the maintenance and

> > > cleaning of buildings are FINALLY discovering the existance of

> > > guidance documents. Unfortunately, they are interpreting those

> > > guidelines to their own benefit rather than the way the writers

> > > intended. NONE of the documents use sq footage to answer the

> question

> > > of whether or not mold needs to be removed. Visible mold only

> > > addresses the question what procedures and methods are suggested.

> > > They are also clear about the very likely possibility of mold

> that is

> > > too small to see or mold that is hidden behind objects or inside

> > > structures.

> > >

> > > See page 16 of EPA's Mold Remediation for Schools and Commercial

> > > Buildings - PLEASE, everyone, download this excellent document,

> its

> > > free at http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/mold_remediation.html

> > >

> > > Finally, just because they refuse to do things right, doesn't

> mean we

> > > have to give in. We may go down fighting but we should firmly

> insist

> > > that the available authoritative documents and guidance be known

> and

> > > followed.

> > >

> > > Carl Grimes

> > > Healthy Habitats LLC

> > >

> > > -----

> > > > Hey there. First I want to thank everyone who gave me

> > > > their experiences with CSM. Sounds like anything

> > > > could happen. Great. LOL

> > > >

> > > > Okay, I know people are going to think I'm crazy for

> > > > even thinking of doing something like this, BUT (head

> > > > in hands)....the landlord spackled and painted over

> > > > the mold etc. in my old bedroom. Is there any way of

> > > > safely getting those layers off so that the mold is

> > > > visible again so that the Department of Inspection is

> > > > forced to come out?

> > > >

> > > > Aaaaahhhhh, Sharon, I can hear you screaming from

> > > > here. Loudly. I know, I'm still hanging onto the

> > > > idea of getting a settlement with the tips of my

> > > > fingernails.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for any ideas. FYI: I can't get the building

> > > > inspectors to come out unles they can see AND smell

> > > > the mold. Madness.

> > > >

> > > > Harriet

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Is there any technical list somewhere for mycologists or mold remediators?

On 11/26/05, tigerpaw2c <tigerpaw2c@...> wrote:

>

> Quackadillian,

>

> Sure you can put a couple of pictures in the photo section. There

> are some that I have to remove because they take up alot of memory

> and does not supply you with that much. So please be limited

> with your pictures. If you are asking for someone to look at them to

> determine what type of mold it is, that is impossible. Nobody can do

> this without proper testing. I think Carl had mentioned that there

> are 20,000 molds that are black and you can have the same mold

> growing on the same surface with 5 different colors.

>

> KC

>

>

> > >

> > > Harriet,

> > >

> > > Unfortunately, ignorance is the still rampant. But that doesn't

> mean

> > > we should let the ignorant should prevail. We have to educate

> them.

> > >

> > > A little history to understand your building depts position,

> wrong

> > > though it is in my opinion. The first document to address the

> mold

> > > issue was the NYC Dept of Health guidelines. It was intended

> only for

> > > their own internal use by maintenance staff. Others adopted it

> > > because there was nothing else.

> > >

> > > Their criteria for determining whether a homeowner or janitor

> could

> > > remove the mold or a professional was based on the area of

> visible

> > > mold. The first level was 10 sq feet. Later, EPA used the square

> > > footage criteria in their guidance but they altered the

> suggestions

> > > and the sizes. Others followed suit. S520 did not use visible

> mold at

> > > all, choosing different methods.

> > >

> > > Now it appears that those responsible for the maintenance and

> > > cleaning of buildings are FINALLY discovering the existance of

> > > guidance documents. Unfortunately, they are interpreting those

> > > guidelines to their own benefit rather than the way the writers

> > > intended. NONE of the documents use sq footage to answer the

> question

> > > of whether or not mold needs to be removed. Visible mold only

> > > addresses the question what procedures and methods are suggested.

> > > They are also clear about the very likely possibility of mold

> that is

> > > too small to see or mold that is hidden behind objects or inside

> > > structures.

> > >

> > > See page 16 of EPA's Mold Remediation for Schools and Commercial

> > > Buildings - PLEASE, everyone, download this excellent document,

> its

> > > free at http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/mold_remediation.html

> > >

> > > Finally, just because they refuse to do things right, doesn't

> mean we

> > > have to give in. We may go down fighting but we should firmly

> insist

> > > that the available authoritative documents and guidance be known

> and

> > > followed.

> > >

> > > Carl Grimes

> > > Healthy Habitats LLC

> > >

> > > -----

> > > > Hey there. First I want to thank everyone who gave me

> > > > their experiences with CSM. Sounds like anything

> > > > could happen. Great. LOL

> > > >

> > > > Okay, I know people are going to think I'm crazy for

> > > > even thinking of doing something like this, BUT (head

> > > > in hands)....the landlord spackled and painted over

> > > > the mold etc. in my old bedroom. Is there any way of

> > > > safely getting those layers off so that the mold is

> > > > visible again so that the Department of Inspection is

> > > > forced to come out?

> > > >

> > > > Aaaaahhhhh, Sharon, I can hear you screaming from

> > > > here. Loudly. I know, I'm still hanging onto the

> > > > idea of getting a settlement with the tips of my

> > > > fingernails.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for any ideas. FYI: I can't get the building

> > > > inspectors to come out unles they can see AND smell

> > > > the mold. Madness.

> > > >

> > > > Harriet

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Actually, the image on the heathandenergy.com site

" stachybotrys on drywall " looks just like much of the mold in my basement on

the wood..

Thats what I meant by black and white.. The colonies on the drywall look

more spoltchy, not stripes.. more like swiss cheese..(but sometimes its all

dark)

On 11/26/05, Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...> wrote:

>

> KC,

>

> You are right about not always being able to identify mold from

> photos or even on-site. Yes, there are approximately 20,000 different

> black molds, Aspergillus niger being one of the most common. If the

> mold is grown under ideal laboratory conditions forming perfect

> colonies, it can often be identified by sight with some training. But

> I rarely see such well formed colonies in the real world. And the

> view under the microscope is entirely different requiring specific

> training. Some, such as Aspergillus and Penicillium cannot be

> identified under the microscope but have to be cultured. They have to

> see how it grows and sporulates.

>

> Go to Jeff May's Web site: www.myhouseiskillingme.com for some photos

> of what mold looks like in under the microscope. And those are VERY

> different from the well formed colonies you see from labs such as Dr

> Fungus, Aerotech labs, EMLabs & others. There is also a good

> comparison of the appearance of colonies, under the microscope and in

> real life on http://healthandenergy.com/stachybotrys.htm about 2/3 of

> the way down.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > Quackadillian,

> >

> > Sure you can put a couple of pictures in the photo section. There are

> > some that I have to remove because they take up alot of memory and

> > does not supply you with that much. So please be limited with

> > your pictures. If you are asking for someone to look at them to

> > determine what type of mold it is, that is impossible. Nobody can do

> > this without proper testing. I think Carl had mentioned that there are

> > 20,000 molds that are black and you can have the same mold growing on

> > the same surface with 5 different colors.

> >

> > KC

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > > Harriet,

> > > >

> > > > Unfortunately, ignorance is the still rampant. But that doesn't

> > mean

> > > > we should let the ignorant should prevail. We have to educate

> > them.

> > > >

> > > > A little history to understand your building depts position,

> > wrong

> > > > though it is in my opinion. The first document to address the

> > mold

> > > > issue was the NYC Dept of Health guidelines. It was intended

> > only for

> > > > their own internal use by maintenance staff. Others adopted it

> > > > because there was nothing else.

> > > >

> > > > Their criteria for determining whether a homeowner or janitor

> > could

> > > > remove the mold or a professional was based on the area of

> > visible

> > > > mold. The first level was 10 sq feet. Later, EPA used the square

> > > > footage criteria in their guidance but they altered the

> > suggestions

> > > > and the sizes. Others followed suit. S520 did not use visible

> > mold at

> > > > all, choosing different methods.

> > > >

> > > > Now it appears that those responsible for the maintenance and

> > > > cleaning of buildings are FINALLY discovering the existance of

> > > > guidance documents. Unfortunately, they are interpreting those

> > > > guidelines to their own benefit rather than the way the writers

> > > > intended. NONE of the documents use sq footage to answer the

> > question

> > > > of whether or not mold needs to be removed. Visible mold only

> > > > addresses the question what procedures and methods are suggested.

> > > > They are also clear about the very likely possibility of mold

> > that is

> > > > too small to see or mold that is hidden behind objects or inside

> > > > structures.

> > > >

> > > > See page 16 of EPA's Mold Remediation for Schools and Commercial

> > > > Buildings - PLEASE, everyone, download this excellent document,

> > its

> > > > free at http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/mold_remediation.html

> > > >

> > > > Finally, just because they refuse to do things right, doesn't

> > mean we

> > > > have to give in. We may go down fighting but we should firmly

> > insist

> > > > that the available authoritative documents and guidance be known

> > and

> > > > followed.

> > > >

> > > > Carl Grimes

> > > > Healthy Habitats LLC

> > > >

> > > > -----

> > > > > Hey there. First I want to thank everyone who gave me

> > > > > their experiences with CSM. Sounds like anything

> > > > > could happen. Great. LOL

> > > > >

> > > > > Okay, I know people are going to think I'm crazy for

> > > > > even thinking of doing something like this, BUT (head

> > > > > in hands)....the landlord spackled and painted over

> > > > > the mold etc. in my old bedroom. Is there any way of

> > > > > safely getting those layers off so that the mold is

> > > > > visible again so that the Department of Inspection is

> > > > > forced to come out?

> > > > >

> > > > > Aaaaahhhhh, Sharon, I can hear you screaming from

> > > > > here. Loudly. I know, I'm still hanging onto the

> > > > > idea of getting a settlement with the tips of my

> > > > > fingernails.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for any ideas. FYI: I can't get the building

> > > > > inspectors to come out unles they can see AND smell

> > > > > the mold. Madness.

> > > > >

> > > > > Harriet

> > > > >

> > > >

> >

[Guest guest]

That's why someone trained to identify is so important. One point of

the comparison pictures is that all three views look radically

different, as does the growth in each situation. You can't tell by

how it grows in the real world.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Actually, the image on the heathandenergy.com site

> " stachybotrys on drywall " looks just like much of the mold in my

> basement on the wood..

>

> Thats what I meant by black and white.. The colonies on the drywall

> look more spoltchy, not stripes.. more like swiss cheese..(but

> sometimes its all dark)

>

[Guest guest]

An IAQ lab that is EMLAP/EMPAT or AL2A accredited is a good start but

no guarantee. Aerotech P & K & EMLabs is a good place start. There are

many others. Likewise for consultants and remediators try the

referral sections at www.iicrc.org, www.iaqa.org and

www.iaqcouncil.org. Ask them about EPA and S500/S520 as guidance and

standards procedures.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Is there any technical list somewhere for mycologists or mold

> remediators?

>

> On 11/26/05, tigerpaw2c <tigerpaw2c@...> wrote:

> >

> > Quackadillian,

> >

> > Sure you can put a couple of pictures in the photo section. There

> > are some that I have to remove because they take up alot of memory

> > and does not supply you with that much. So please be limited

> > with your pictures. If you are asking for someone to look at them to

> > determine what type of mold it is, that is impossible. Nobody can do

> > this without proper testing. I think Carl had mentioned that there

> > are 20,000 molds that are black and you can have the same mold

> > growing on the same surface with 5 different colors.

> >

> > KC

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > > Harriet,

> > > >

> > > > Unfortunately, ignorance is the still rampant. But that doesn't

> > mean

> > > > we should let the ignorant should prevail. We have to educate

> > them.

> > > >

> > > > A little history to understand your building depts position,

> > wrong

> > > > though it is in my opinion. The first document to address the

> > mold

> > > > issue was the NYC Dept of Health guidelines. It was intended

> > only for

> > > > their own internal use by maintenance staff. Others adopted it

> > > > because there was nothing else.

> > > >

> > > > Their criteria for determining whether a homeowner or janitor

> > could

> > > > remove the mold or a professional was based on the area of

> > visible

> > > > mold. The first level was 10 sq feet. Later, EPA used the square

> > > > footage criteria in their guidance but they altered the

> > suggestions

> > > > and the sizes. Others followed suit. S520 did not use visible

> > mold at

> > > > all, choosing different methods.

> > > >

> > > > Now it appears that those responsible for the maintenance and

> > > > cleaning of buildings are FINALLY discovering the existance of

> > > > guidance documents. Unfortunately, they are interpreting those

> > > > guidelines to their own benefit rather than the way the writers

> > > > intended. NONE of the documents use sq footage to answer the

> > question

> > > > of whether or not mold needs to be removed. Visible mold only

> > > > addresses the question what procedures and methods are

> > > > suggested. They are also clear about the very likely possibility

> > > > of mold

> > that is

> > > > too small to see or mold that is hidden behind objects or inside

> > > > structures.

> > > >

> > > > See page 16 of EPA's Mold Remediation for Schools and Commercial

> > > > Buildings - PLEASE, everyone, download this excellent document,

> > its

> > > > free at http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/mold_remediation.html

> > > >

> > > > Finally, just because they refuse to do things right, doesn't

> > mean we

> > > > have to give in. We may go down fighting but we should firmly

> > insist

> > > > that the available authoritative documents and guidance be known

> > and

> > > > followed.

> > > >

> > > > Carl Grimes

> > > > Healthy Habitats LLC

> > > >

> > > > -----

> > > > > Hey there. First I want to thank everyone who gave me

> > > > > their experiences with CSM. Sounds like anything

> > > > > could happen. Great. LOL

> > > > >

> > > > > Okay, I know people are going to think I'm crazy for

> > > > > even thinking of doing something like this, BUT (head

> > > > > in hands)....the landlord spackled and painted over

> > > > > the mold etc. in my old bedroom. Is there any way of

> > > > > safely getting those layers off so that the mold is

> > > > > visible again so that the Department of Inspection is

> > > > > forced to come out?

> > > > >

> > > > > Aaaaahhhhh, Sharon, I can hear you screaming from

> > > > > here. Loudly. I know, I'm still hanging onto the

> > > > > idea of getting a settlement with the tips of my

> > > > > fingernails.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for any ideas. FYI: I can't get the building

> > > > > inspectors to come out unles they can see AND smell

> > > > > the mold. Madness.

> > > > >

> > > > > Harriet

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >