Re: Re: Comment from Doug Rice PhD

[Guest guest]

Yes, I have read that too..

Also, that gypsum walboard i.e. 'sheetrock' *is* pretty much the ideal

growing medium for stachybotrys.

much more so than generic nutrient agar, as you point out.

I also read recently that some molds produce *more* toxics when they are

growing in a non-optimal nutrient situation.. perhaps to kill off the

competition? Go figure..

Sort of related.. I also remember reading something along the lines of that

given the extemely high relative humidity (>70-80%) - and sheetrock - that

it likes, Stachybotrys will almost always grow. (often, its the climax

ecology growing over other molds that grew before, when humidity was

lower..) The spores are almost everywhere in the environment.. but they

rarely find conditions they need.. so its the humidity that does it..

Once it gets going, it can tolerate relative humidity much lower.. (~60%)

Thats a good reason to not postpone maintenance of any kind when water might

be involved.

On 11/22/05, erikmoldwarrior <erikmoldwarrior@...> wrote:

>

> >Building materials and furnishings are not ideal substrates for the

> toxigenic molds and the dreaded toxins may not even be present.<

>

>

> Sheetrock?

> Chipped compressed plywood?

> Jute backing for carpet?

> Kiln not-so-dried studs and joists?

>

> The only things more ideal are Czapek cellulose media and cornmeal

> agar.

> -

>

>

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>

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> FAIR USE NOTICE:

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>

>

[Guest guest]

I thought the pyramid crack she made was kinda cute. I'm no geologist, but

unless my brains have suffered an even greater meltdown than I thought, the

spores come from the gypsum itself, built right into the wall. I don't known

exactly how long it takes gypsum to form, but the stuff we get here in the US

is what apparently used to be along the edges of an ocean that once spanned most

of the continent. So. A while ago. Looks like the spores keep for a nice long

while.

Then, there's that little Mr. Wizard (excuse me - MIZ Wizard) thing where you

can take some clean unused drywall, stick it in a ziplock with a bit of water

and just hang out for a few days while it grows mold like Sea Monkeys while you

watch. And the similarity doesn't stop there:

" Sea-Monkeys® are a true miracle of nature. They exist in suspended animation

inside their tiny eggs for many years. The instant-life crystals, in which the

eggs are enclosed, preserve their viability and help to extend still further

their un-hatched life span! Sea-Monkeys are real Time-Travelers asleep in

biological time capsules for their strange journey into the future!

Scientists call this amazing rare process " cryptobiosis " which means, " hidden

life " . Among the types of life on Earth that are cryptobiotic in early stages of

development are the seeds of higher plants (wheat grains from the tombs of the

ancient Egyptian Kings have sprouted after being sealed in urns for more than

2,000 years), the larvae of certain insects, and the thick-shelled eggs of some

crustaceans such as Daphnia, seed Shrimps (Ostracods) and Brine Shrimp (Artemia

salina). Sea-Monkeys too belong in this category, since they are a variety of

Artemia. A relative of Lobsters, Crabs, Fairy Shrimp and other crustaceans,

instead of originating in the ocean, Artemia are found in salt lakes and salt

evaporation flats. The waters of these areas are often so salty that Artemia may

be the only non-microscopic animal inhabiting them. "

Hmmm....so fungi are also capable of crytobiosis, and come from the same kinds

of environment that Sea Monkeys do. Except then, I found this definition of

gypsum...

" A common mineral sometimes added to water to make it simulate high-quality

British brewing water. "

Yuck, blehhh, ptooey! Think I'll stick with Japanese beer, thanks. At least

they're particular about their fungi. Maybe the fungi are less campy but more

interesting than Sea Monkeys, because you can make beer with them. New song -

" Seeeeeeea Drunkies, watch 'em drink 'n drive... "

Ok. Sorry. That was dorky. And I'm stone cold sober. I swear it. But then, I'm

no Harvard Phd. So forgive. Although....I probably could have figured this one

out brain-damaged AND drunk, so I think Harriet Burge must be skipping her

Wheaties or something. I actually feel bad for her. Took, like 8 years and I

don't know how much in student loans to get a wrong answer. Takes a whole lot

less time and money to just get poisoned and use Google for a minute.

And then, there're the black breast implants which have been excised from a

number of women. I'll skip the link to the picture just now. But it's

Aspergillus - a lovely little genus with several toxigenic species that likes

drywall as a substrate. Apparently, it also likes water kept just at body

temperature. Doesn't even require gypsum, and last I heard, no cellulose is

added to those breast implants. " Substrate " is a nice $50 word and all, but I

don't think the mold is very impressed with it. You can remove the water from

those, and it'll grow a nice mold colony. You don't even have to add gypsum - or

breasts.

And here's a little gypsum trivia I found. It seems drywall isn't. Dry, I

mean. Ever. Read on... from http://www.nationalgypsum.com/about/therock.html .

Just what is gypsum? Where is it found, what is it used for and what

does it look like? Get the details here.

Very few people have ever heard of hydrous calcium sulphate. And even fewer

are aware that hydrous calcium sulphate—CaSO4.2H2O as chemists know it—is

gypsum, the rock nobody knows.

In addition to being found in the Egyptian pyramids, gypsum rock is referred to

in the ancient cuneiform scripts of the Assyrians. Its use was probably

developed by the Greeks, whose influence certainly remains in the name by which

the rock is known. They called it Gypsos, the source of our word " gypsum. " The

Greeks, too, found just the word to fit the transparent mica-like form of gypsum

they used in their temple windows. They discovered that sun, shining through

this material, graced their altars with the effect of moonlight, so they named

it after Selene, their Moon Goddess. Today, we still refer to it as Selenite.

Even the very geologic origins of gypsum are unknown. Many experts feel that

gypsum deposits are a result of seas that once covered the area where the

deposits are now located. Evidence of this can be seen today in the Caspian Sea

and on the west coast of the Baja in California. Gypsum usually occurs in veins

or ledges, but frequently these have been weathered away and the gypsum has

washed into adjoining depressions in the form of sand mixed with earth. This

sand is known to the trade as Gypsite and has been used to make a very

satisfactory plaster. The White Sands in New Mexico, now a national park, is

actually an outcropping of gypsum.

Gypsum is a rock that, like limestone, occurs naturally in many parts of the

world. And, like limestone, in an absolutely pure form it is white. However, the

usual presence of darker impurities produces rock in varying shades of gray,

brown and even black. Since it normally is found close to the surface, gypsum

can be mined or quarried easily.

The hero who first discovered the peculiar property that makes gypsum so

valuable remains unsung. But mankind owes him a huge debt because gypsum can be

ground up and " boiled " or calcined at a comparatively low temperature until

three-quarters of its moisture content has evaporated. When that happens, the

rock becomes a fine powder, commonly known as plaster of paris. Our unknown

friend discovered that by returning the water to the powder, he could make a

mortar or pliable mass that could be formed into any shape and hardened. Gypsum,

he had found, is the only natural substance that can be restored to its original

rock-like state by the addition of water alone.

When this great secret of nature became common gossip, it didn't take long for

man's ingenuity to put it to work. How well it has served us through the

centuries is apparent from a listing of a few of the ways in which gypsum is

seen during an average day.

First of all, there is toothpaste. Gypsum forms the basis for some of the

well-known brands of toothpaste, and thereby helps to pay the salary of some of

television's best-known entertainers. Most of the fixtures in bathrooms are made

of clay formed in a mold of gypsum plaster, and chances are that gypsum board is

behind the wall tile.

At the breakfast table, plates, cups and saucers are present which were shaped

on or in a gypsum plaster mold, a mixture of plaster of paris and water. So were

the sterling silver handles of knives, forks and spoons.

On the way to work or school people step on sidewalks made of Portland cement,

which contains a percentage of gypsum to regulate the setting time. Maybe their

walk is covered with chalk marks from the game the children played the night

before. But of course, they weren't made by chalk at all but by a molded stick

of, you guessed it, soft gypsum plaster. Many streets and highways also contain

their share of gypsum.

Doctors and dentists, too, use gypsum for everything from dental molds to

splints.

And so it goes. Everybody uses the rock nobody knows. lin, the

great experimenter, was one of the first to introduce it in this country when he

used ground raw gypsum, called land plaster, on his farm. Today, thousands of

tons of land plaster are used in the U.S. each year.

But, by far, the biggest part of the gypsum rock used in this country goes into

wallboard for homes. Gypsum " boards " are formed by sandwiching a core of wet

plaster between two sheets of heavy paper. When the core sets and is dried, the

sandwich becomes a strong, rigid, fire-resistant building material.

Fire-resistant because in its natural state, gypsum contains water; and when

exposed to heat or flame, this water is released as steam, retarding heat

transfer. Manufactured in unbelievable quantities on continuous machines up to

two-thirds of a mile in length, gypsum wallboard, prefinished wallboard and

gypsum sheathing, for use under exterior finishes, are among the most important

materials used in housing.

There are 80 plants with board manufacturing facilities in operation in the U.S.

today, with a production capacity of 36 billion square feet of material a year.

To visualize this gigantic production, think of a pathway 16-feet wide from the

earth to the moon or perhaps a wall almost 270 feet high around the 25,500 mile

circumference of the earth. This will give some idea of the vast contribution

the gypsum industry is making to the nation's housing industry.

National Gypsum Company, manufacturer and supplier of Gold Bond® brand wallboard

products, is a leading producer in this field, operating 20 plants which turn

out a seemingly endless stream of gypsum board products.

Despite this tremendous output, though, there is plenty of gypsum to go around.

If anything could be said to be unlimited, this could be applied to the gypsum

deposits in the Northern Hemisphere. It is one material which we could never run

short. In the United States these deposits are found in two principal belts -

one starts in southwestern Texas and runs all the way to the Niagara River in

New York State; the other belt starts in the Imperial Valley of California and

fans out into Utah with a thin extension into Montana. These deposits range from

slightly over a mile wide to 150 to 200 miles in width.

There are a few scattered deposits outside this area, but most of the domestic

gypsum comes from these two belts. In addition, several million tons of rock a

year are imported from extensive Nova Scotia and Mexico deposits to provide raw

material for Atlantic, Gulf Coast and West Coast plants.

That's how it is that gypsum, one of the most common materials in our everyday

living, is " The Rock That Nobody Knows. "

_______________________________________________

So, let me repeat my new mantra one last time before I get out of here:

" Reducing water intrusion is both a lovely and practical ideal. Call me when

you're ready to talk about reducing gypsum, because I'm pretty sure that fuzzy

noodle salad in the back of the fridge didn't crawl out and do this to me. "

Serena

There is no such thing as an anomaly. Recheck your original premise.

...Ayn Rand,

paraphrased

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