Re: Has anyone ever built anything like this?

December 4, 2005

We went through this discussion just a few months back. is ABSOLUTELY

RIGHT on this. If your environment is making you sick, then the ONLY WAY you

are going to stand a chance of getting better, is to remove yourself from

the environment that is the cause of your illness.

There are many different treatment protocols being followed out there from

many different angles. The only one consistancy in ALL of these protocols is

the need to avoid the environment that is making you sick.

I know it can be especially tough on the finances if one is on a fixed

income, elderly, etc. But if you were living in a building that was on fire

and

it couldn't be put out, would you stay?

It's the same with mold once you are sensitive. This really is a situation

of " Your money or your life. " There is not a medicine or a medical

professional in the world that can help you get better without you getting away

from

what is making you sick.

Sharon

In a message dated 12/4/2005 10:07:13 AM Pacific Standard Time,

erikmoldwarrior@... writes:

" carondeen " < wrote:

Please, the toxins will be all around you, if you are sick you must

get out- all these stragedies will only amount to energy spent in the

wrong direction >

Yes. I tried that " tube thing " by getting a 3/4 HP Shop " Dust

Extractor " and running a six inch flex outside. But if you need that

much " fresh air " to survive inside, it will be moving as much cold air

as if you were outside anyway.

It was an act of sheer desperation and a total waste of money.

And in all the years since, I see virtually EVERYONE go through the

same money wasting - life destroying process. Ozone machines, Hepa

filters, bleach and chemicals, and then finally all-out remediation,

only to find that your possessions and living area are already so

deadly that they have to " cut and run " anyway.

That's why I keep saying over and over that you must " get clear " by

going to a pristine place, and then test yourself against a possession.

If you cannot abide the proximity of a single possession, there is

absolutely no amount of remediation that will allow you any

significant measure of comfort in your contaminated environment.

Your life is now as if you had experienced a nerve agent attack, dirty

bomb, or a volcanic eruption. You are now either a case of

inexplicable illness or sudden death that will make doctors shrug

their shoulders and go on to the next patient, or a refugee.

Once you have established that you are truly this reactive, is it now

your decision which - and there are very few doctors that will lay it

out so plainly, and they do not even perceive that their ambivalence

is not going to help you to survive.

They aren't the ones who are going to drop.

-

December 4, 2005

Please, the toxins will be all around you, if you are sick you must

get out- all these stragedies will only amount to energy spent in

the wrong direction

>

> I keep having this idea to build some kind of a tube to snake out

of our

> bedroom window and up on to the roof, and then over onto the roof

of our

> neighbord house with a blower on our end of it.. the point being

to serve as

> a collector for fresh air that we could pump in from a location

that was at

> least 20 or 30 feet removed from our building. Has anyone ever

done anything

> like this? The reason i ask is because since our basement is full

of mold,

> the air that flows in a laminar war around our building sometimes

has a lot

> of mold in it, and the times are unpredictable. I suspect that

a 'chimney'

> might work too, when the air was blowing but in the early evening,

until

> midnight or even later, the updraft of air in our building brings

mold up

> and it can get very strong..

>

> So the only way to get fresh air is physical separation.. I'm

thinking..

> importing the air from elsewhere via a tube?

>

December 4, 2005

carondeen <kdeanstudios@...> wrote: I keep having this idea to build

some kind of a tube

This reminded of something that may be of value if they still make them. Many

years ago, I rented a duplex which had a large exhaust fan on the ceiling in the

hallway. Built before a/c I think. In Texas it would cool down to about 85 yet

the insides would still be around 100 degrees, more depending upon if you

cooked. The exhaust fan would close when off and open up when on and the fan

would come on. Open the windows and it felt like a 20 mph wind coming through

the windows going up and out the exhaust fan into the attic. Of course there are

attic exhuast fans.

I wouldn't want to be inside while exhausting but wouldn't this help get rid

of mold spores, especially after remediation?

BTW, living in a tent while well and on vacation but please, it is no way fun

after months and the wind is blowing 40 mph with dust in the air. This is Texas

but the desert gets very cold. We are expecting the cold front and it is

expected to get down to 20 degrees with 30 mph winds. Tents flap all day and

drive me crazy. I call it " surviving " . It would be much better in a place with

less wind, dust and cold. But there are still those much worse off than I am.

Bob

---------------------------------

Personals

Skip the bars and set-ups and start using Personals for free

December 4, 2005

" carondeen " < wrote:

Please, the toxins will be all around you, if you are sick you must

get out- all these stragedies will only amount to energy spent in the

wrong direction >

Yes. I tried that " tube thing " by getting a 3/4 HP Shop " Dust

Extractor " and running a six inch flex outside. But if you need that

much " fresh air " to survive inside, it will be moving as much cold air

as if you were outside anyway.

It was an act of sheer desperation and a total waste of money.

And in all the years since, I see virtually EVERYONE go through the

same money wasting - life destroying process. Ozone machines, Hepa

filters, bleach and chemicals, and then finally all-out remediation,

only to find that your possessions and living area are already so

deadly that they have to " cut and run " anyway.

That's why I keep saying over and over that you must " get clear " by

going to a pristine place, and then test yourself against a possession.

If you cannot abide the proximity of a single possession, there is

absolutely no amount of remediation that will allow you any

significant measure of comfort in your contaminated environment.

Your life is now as if you had experienced a nerve agent attack, dirty

bomb, or a volcanic eruption. You are now either a case of

inexplicable illness or sudden death that will make doctors shrug

their shoulders and go on to the next patient, or a refugee.

Once you have established that you are truly this reactive, is it now

your decision which - and there are very few doctors that will lay it

out so plainly, and they do not even perceive that their ambivalence

is not going to help you to survive.

They aren't the ones who are going to drop.

-

December 4, 2005

Yes, when I was first very ill and going to my Dr- she asked me why I

did not just wear a mask in my studio if I was being bothered,I told

her it made no perceptual difference- latter,I understood no amount of

Doctoring would help- if I had found this site earlier- and listened,

I would have been saved allot of life-threatening illness- and

whatever still is in front of me

> your decision which - and there are very few doctors that will lay

it

> out so plainly, and they do not even perceive that their ambivalence

> is not going to help you to survive.

> They aren't the ones who are going to drop.

> -

>

December 4, 2005

I had the idea of an exhaust fan also but it is much more

complicated than that. Perhaps someone in the IE group could

help you figure something out. I heard that central whole house

fans like that creat a 'negative air pressure' in the house which

pulls air in through all the cracks and other leaky areas of your

house, including porous walls, which could pull inside of living

area mold spores and toxins that are inside of walls.

I put in a fresh air intake. Pulling in fresh air or MORE air into

a house, creates a state of 'too much air' inside of house and some

air must find a way to get outside, so air if forced out cracks and

poroused areas of house, so toxins should go OUT, not be pulled in.

It makes house warmer in winter since air coming in fresh air

intake, is pulled into cold air return and goes through furnace and

is heated BEFORE going up registers and into your living areas, so

outside air is HEATED FIRST before coming in. This eliminates 'cold

air drafts' in house in winter. Cold air leaks are little breezes

of cold air coming INTO house from outside directly through cracks

and poroused surfaces and into living area without being heated

first, so 'cold drafts'. If all air from outside goes through

furnace first, they aren't cold drafts, they are warm fresh air.

Cracks in house has air GOING OUT OF, not into, house, because of

extra air being brought in through fresh air intake. I thought my

heat bill would go up but it didn't, or not much anyway.

If your house if VERY AIRTIGHT, not much air will come into fresh

air intake since house is FULL of air or almost. In that case,

a 'exhaust' duct of some sort has to be made for stale air to exit.

I may put one in my upstairs bathroom. It needs an exhaust outlet

anyway. Then you can run it all day to help pull more fresh air in

through fresh air intake.

However a whole house fan, does cool off house though if it is

cooler outside than inside. If there is no mold problem or other

problems in the house structure, pulling the air out this way

shouldn't hurt air quality and help cool off the house without

running air conditioner. In a new house a friend of mine and I

rented, we open up trap to attic and let hot air in house go out

attic. Since house was new, there was no air quality problems and

there was a large attic fan that came on when attic got hot and when

it went on, it sucked all the hot air out of the house when we

opened up the house to attic. In older house, attic would probably

be too dirty to do that. Anyway, it worked like a whole house fan.

> This reminded of something that may be of value if they still

make them. Many years ago, I rented a duplex which had a large

exhaust fan on the ceiling in the hallway. Built before a/c I think.

In Texas it would cool down to about 85 yet the insides would still

be around 100 degrees, more depending upon if you cooked. The

exhaust fan would close when off and open up when on and the fan

would come on. Open the windows and it felt like a 20 mph wind

coming through the windows going up and out the exhaust fan into the

attic. Of course there are attic exhuast fans.

>

December 5, 2005

I can't afford to move - I live in a city, its expensive here. Even though I

have been an excellent tenant, have always payed rent on time, care about

the building, am quiet, not a smoker, etc, they hate me and would not give

me a good reference.

Being unemployed, and sick from the mold, I can tell you right now that I

wouldn't be able to rent another place without a job. Getting a job (at

least one doing what I used to do, which is computer programming) requires

that I get better first. I am not a functional programmer right now. It has

been a long time since I could do the work I used to do. The mold is very

bad for that.. I need to get it cleaned up or I wont be able to get a job.

The kind of work I do requires an ability to concentrate. I don't have a

college degree. Without a college degree in this country you either do

something that requires abstract skills - or you work at Mc s.. (until

they automate) It took me a long time to build up my resume to the point

where I could get a good job.. and then wham.. Its like a kick in the nuts..

This mold situation has hurt me a very great deal.. its basically a matter

of life or death for me..

Also moving out would also probably mean having to leave the area, my

friends, etc. I don't own a car, and leaving the area would mean living

somewhere without good public transportation, which would mean I'd have to

buy a car I can't afford.

The bottom line is that I have only one option here and that is to FORCE my

landlord to SPEND THE MONEY to clean the mold up responsibly and completely.

Even though they NEVER spend ANY money to do ANYTHING properly.

On 12/4/05, barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote:

>

> I had the idea of an exhaust fan also but it is much more

> complicated than that. Perhaps someone in the IE group could

> help you figure something out. I heard that central whole house

> fans like that creat a 'negative air pressure' in the house which

> pulls air in through all the cracks and other leaky areas of your

> house, including porous walls, which could pull inside of living

> area mold spores and toxins that are inside of walls.

> I put in a fresh air intake. Pulling in fresh air or MORE air into

> a house, creates a state of 'too much air' inside of house and some

> air must find a way to get outside, so air if forced out cracks and

> poroused areas of house, so toxins should go OUT, not be pulled in.

> It makes house warmer in winter since air coming in fresh air

> intake, is pulled into cold air return and goes through furnace and

> is heated BEFORE going up registers and into your living areas, so

> outside air is HEATED FIRST before coming in. This eliminates 'cold

> air drafts' in house in winter. Cold air leaks are little breezes

> of cold air coming INTO house from outside directly through cracks

> and poroused surfaces and into living area without being heated

> first, so 'cold drafts'. If all air from outside goes through

> furnace first, they aren't cold drafts, they are warm fresh air.

> Cracks in house has air GOING OUT OF, not into, house, because of

> extra air being brought in through fresh air intake. I thought my

> heat bill would go up but it didn't, or not much anyway.

> If your house if VERY AIRTIGHT, not much air will come into fresh

> air intake since house is FULL of air or almost. In that case,

> a 'exhaust' duct of some sort has to be made for stale air to exit.

> I may put one in my upstairs bathroom. It needs an exhaust outlet

> anyway. Then you can run it all day to help pull more fresh air in

> through fresh air intake.

>

> However a whole house fan, does cool off house though if it is

> cooler outside than inside. If there is no mold problem or other

> problems in the house structure, pulling the air out this way

> shouldn't hurt air quality and help cool off the house without

> running air conditioner. In a new house a friend of mine and I

> rented, we open up trap to attic and let hot air in house go out

> attic. Since house was new, there was no air quality problems and

> there was a large attic fan that came on when attic got hot and when

> it went on, it sucked all the hot air out of the house when we

> opened up the house to attic. In older house, attic would probably

> be too dirty to do that. Anyway, it worked like a whole house fan.

>

> > This reminded of something that may be of value if they still

> make them. Many years ago, I rented a duplex which had a large

> exhaust fan on the ceiling in the hallway. Built before a/c I think.

> In Texas it would cool down to about 85 yet the insides would still

> be around 100 degrees, more depending upon if you cooked. The

> exhaust fan would close when off and open up when on and the fan

> would come on. Open the windows and it felt like a 20 mph wind

> coming through the windows going up and out the exhaust fan into the

> attic. Of course there are attic exhuast fans.

> >

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

December 5, 2005

I do believe in creating a positive pressure in the home. This will

make sure that unneccesary toxins arent not sucked into the home.

However, you must make sure the air you are bringing into the home

is purified or filtered (one in the same).

>

> > This reminded of something that may be of value if they still

> make them. Many years ago, I rented a duplex which had a large

> exhaust fan on the ceiling in the hallway. Built before a/c I

think.

> In Texas it would cool down to about 85 yet the insides would

still

> be around 100 degrees, more depending upon if you cooked. The

> exhaust fan would close when off and open up when on and the fan

> would come on. Open the windows and it felt like a 20 mph wind

> coming through the windows going up and out the exhaust fan into

the

> attic. Of course there are attic exhuast fans.

> >

>

December 5, 2005

Are there any filtered, rainproof window fans? That is exactly what I need.

On 12/4/05, pwcwg325 <pwcwg325@...> wrote:

>

> I do believe in creating a positive pressure in the home. This will

> make sure that unneccesary toxins arent not sucked into the home.

> However, you must make sure the air you are bringing into the home

> is purified or filtered (one in the same).

>

December 5, 2005

Quack - One thing you really do have to keep in mind is that it may not be

possible to clean the building up sufficiently for it to be safe for you. There

simply _is_ no known safe level of mold and mycotoxins for those of us who are

very reactive. Testing methods are approximations, at best. Cleanups are

uncertain, at best. And I mean, even with all the recommended gear and

procedures. There's not a single study or manual or standard, or anything in

existence that is going to tilt the odds back in your favor with that place.

I know it's not easy, but you're gonna have to get your head around this

thing. The reality is that what you did for a living, you can't do right now.

What you spend on rent may seem like a bargain compared to what other people are

paying, but it's considerably more than some people _just_ like _you_ have as

their entire monthly income. A single month's rent is more than some people's

cars are worth. In other parts of the country, you can easily pay TWO mortgages

on mold-free houses that you own for what you now spend on a single month's rent

on an unsafe place that someone else owns and controls.

Seriously - I'm not ripping on your lifestyle. There's nothing at all wrong

with it...except that it's doing its damnedest to kill you. You live in a place

where what you are doing seems normal and ordinary. What I am doing, is trying

to show you that you DO have choices. You can make them or not, but then, not

making a choice is a choice, too. My situation was somewhat the opposite. I got

poisoned at work. Then I fought to get back to work and fought to stay there -

POST-remediation. And I only got worse, because I held on and fought so hard,

and because I listened to all the " experts " who kept telling me it wasn't

possible for this to happen. Because, as I got sicker and sicker, my ability to

reason, remember, and make rational decisions became less and less available to

me. I thought the job was more important. I thought the piddly projects sitting

on my desk were more important. I thought the commitments I had made were more

important. I thought. With my moldy, fogged up brain.

If I just kept rolling somehow, it would all pass. Now, I don't know if I will

ever fully regain my health.

Truth is, I had nothing there. Nothing worth what I have been through so far,

and nothing worth what I go through on a daily basis now. But I was still lucky,

in a way. At least the poison was at work, not at home. I say lucky, because at

the worst of it, I was not physically capable of leaving the house most of the

time, let alone moving if that's what it would have taken. I doubt I could pull

it off right now, for that matter. I hear stories like yours all the time now,

and I always end up grateful that the source of the poison wasn't here, and that

I didn't get caught needing to move and being incapable of doing it. And that,

my dear, was very many months ago now. Even now, I couldn't bang out a line of

code if my life depended on it. So, you can't really count on a remediation or

on medication, because it just might not fix everything like you want to believe

it will. So. It's certainly up to you, but when you weigh all those cost

comparisons and what-if's and maybe-then's,

weigh this stuff too. You've just gotta know you're gambling here, and some of

the odds you're trying so hard to calc just don't translate into numbers on

paper (convenient, when doing numbers is such a problem, eh?) .

I wish you all the best, of course, but you're betting the dark horse here.

You want a landlord who doesn't admit there's a problem at all, to repair a

building you don't own, and in such a way that meets with your approval, using

methods that will do something none of the top people in the field would

guarantee, in order to fix a health problem very few would admit even exists,

and even fewer can treat, and even then without anything approaching 100%

success. And right after that, you plan to have your apartment and your health

and your profession back. I can only suggest you take a big step back

(preferably from a very safe distance already), and take another look at the

situation. As in - what would do if the building had burned down, or was full of

nuclear waste? I know you'd figure that out if you had to, so I know you

canfigure this out, too.

Good luck to you.

LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote: