Placebo

[Guest guest]

on 18/9/00, Name ...? at <live2ride_666@...> wrote:

> My goal is to lose my gut and gain mass. I'm 5'8 " and 240lbs. But now I'm

> reading a book called " Power Eating " , but they keep referring to a placeo:

> " In a study conducted by Dr. of Penn State, subjects aged 55 and

> older were given either a daily 800 milligram vitamin E supplement or a

> placebo. "

PLACEBO DEFINED

Placebo has been variously described as a medicine, a sugar pill, a

substance and a preparation as well as a treatment, an intervention and a

therapeutic procedure ( et al.,1994; Dobrilla and Scarpignato,1994)

that do not intrinsically affect the nature of the illness or disorder for

which they were used or prescribed (Drury, 1979).

The Penguin Dictionary of Psychology (1985) provides a rather narrow, but

popularly held definition of placebo; " a preparation, often in a pill form,

used as a control in experiments requiring the administration of a drug. The

placebo, which is made of sugar, acts as a control on possible suggestive

effects from the knowledge that one is getting a drug. "

Whilst Dorland's Illustrated Medical Dictionary (1974) defines placebo more

broadly as " an inactive substance or preparation given to satisfy the

patient's symbolic need for drug therapy and used in control studies to

determine the efficacy of medicinal substances. A procedure with no

intrinsic therapeutic value, performed for such purposes " .

A popularly held, and very broad concept of a placebo is, anything that is

believed or expected to have an effect on any given condition or to affect a

change on any given behaviour.

THE PLACEBO'S INTANGIBLE FACTORS

The original function of a placebo was to please the patient; the word

placebo coming from the Latin placebo meaning I will please (Graham, 1990).

Today the word placebo has become more widely used to connote any aspect of

the healing process that cannot be attributed to a physical or

pharmacological effect. According to Magarey (cited in Drury, 1983, p.130)

" the placebo can be a pill but in fact anything that helps the patient feel

positive, to focus attention on a positive outcome, is going to open the

patient and allow him/her to get in touch with his/her own natural healing

potential " .

Magarey's " anything " includes intangible factors such as the patient's

personality, expectations and volition; positive clinician/patient

relationship including friendliness, trust, empathy and warmth; as well as

characteristics of the clinician, of the health care setting, and of the

treatment itself. Meares (1981) refers to these intangible factors as " the

wealth within " whilst et al., (1994) call them " non-specific influences "

that are essential features of the holistic model. According to et al.,

non-specific influences of treatment may also produce adverse effects, that have

been referred to as " nocebo effects " .

PLACEBO RESPONSES

Responses to a placebo have been variously described as the placebo

enigma (Pearce, 1995), the placebo phenomenon (Jamison, 1996), placebogenic

phenomenon (Blair, 1996), non-specific effects of treatment ( et

al.,1994) and most commonly as the placebo effect. According to et

al., the placebo effect is a change in a patient's illness attributable to

the symbolic import of a treatment rather than a specific pharmacological or

physiological property. Taking a more holistic view Benson and Friedman

(1996) renamed the placebo effect " remembered wellness " . The Penguin

Dictionary of Psychology (1985) defines placebo effect as " any observed

effect on behaviour that is " caused by a placebo " and adds that although

the term was first introduced in the context of pharmacological research, it

has been widely used and may be found in situations having nothing to do

with the study of drugs.

PLACEBO AS A PROCESS

Cousins (1981) attributes placebo effects to the patient's " will to live " , a

concept similar to Hippocrates' " life force " , that underpins the interaction

of body and mind. According to Cousins, " the placebo is not so much a pill as

a process " that begins with the patient¹s confidence in the clinician and

extends through to the full functioning of the patient¹s own immunological

and healing system.

Thus a placebo effect does not necessarily require a placebo per se. Placebo

effects occur as a result of decreased stress and anxiety, expectations of the

patient and health care provider, and their interaction. It has also been

suggested that placebo responses may be conditioned responses (Voudouris, 1990)

or that they may be mediated by endogenous opiate release in the central nervous

system (Levine, 1978).

CURATIVE PLACEBO EFFECTS

Although often treated with scepticism, disdain and at times associated

with quackery, the resulting negative connotatins of the placebo effect are

not justified. The existence of curative placebo effects are well documented,and

substantiated in the treatment of a wide range of illnesses ranging from

migraine and tension headaches to angina pectoris, seasickness, anxiety and

the common cold as well as in surgery (Beecher, 1955; Levine, 1978; Graham,

1990; et al., 1994; Laport, 1994; Piercy, 1996; Bienenfeld, 1996;

Benson and Friedman, 1996) .

Placebo effects provide compelling evidence for the power of the mind

and support a mind/body connection. Used as part of a holistic approach they

would appear to be extremely useful in any programmes designed to reduce

stress and anxiety, with the aim of restoring homeostsis and thereby

promoting physical and mental health.

References available if you are interested.

Hope this is not too long.

.

Dickman BSc,Psych (Hons), DipEd.

Newcastle New Body New Life

43 Bradman Street, town 2290, Australia

----------

Mel Siff:

***Many thanks for this through overview of placebos. I think that your list

of references would be most appropriate, so please post it under the heading

PLACEBO REFERENCES.

Dr Mel C Siff

Denver, USA

mcsiff@...

[Guest guest]

well yes, in THAT sense of the word,, they can,, but you are right,, a lot of healing happens in our minds,, and our bodies follow,, but MOST placebos do not have the same side effects as INF,, I mean most ppl can feel awful, but I dont think that a placebo can make one become so anemic so as to need procrit,, but I think they can make one feel sick enough that they wonder IF they are anemic.. you know what I mean? Im trying to make myself clear, sometimes I dont,, so if its not clear, please let me know,, I SO want Liz to clear,, and remain clear,, IM SO glad she is going to stick with tx,, I gotta help her stay hydrated tho,, Hunter <us2china2@...> wrote: I think you missed something, or didn't see all the information on placebos. They can have bad side effects. Look at the double blind placebo

Interferon studies. Some of the people who recieved the placebo got just as sick as those recieving interferon. This tells me that so very much of healing, and getting ill, is in our minds, or is at least affected by our thoughts. This is why I worried about . If someone has no hope, it can be like a poison. I'm so glad she recieved such good news! "You ARE going to be cured hon!" Love to all, ChrisJackie on <redjaxjm@...> wrote: Yep,, , I have, in my studies been reading about the "placebo" effect and the thing that is so amazing is that when the person believes that something IS going to cure them,, it usually does,, there IS a mind-body connection.. They have even seen the placebo effect with new allopathic meds as well,,

typically the BEST results are seen within the first several months after a drug is released,, then in time,, they lose their effects,, and that makes me wonder if some of the allopathic drugs are a placebo effect too,, but who cares,, I mean ,, if it works, who cares,, I truely hope they do more studies in this area,, as placebo have no side effects and are not harmful as apposed to many other drugs and treatments that ARE harmful... I really like Dr. Weil as he is an MD who has integrated some eastern meds into his practice and has seen some pretty remarkable things... Keep believing and WHO cares if someone "says" it wont work,, if it did, it did,, and phooey on them,, hugs jaxHunter <us2china2@...> wrote: I really don't want to argue with anyone, especially when I

know I'm outmatched. I did respond. Hopefully in a civil manner. But as I started to read that, the first thing I noticed was that it was a 2 and a half year old story... if I'd read that when it came out, and believed it, perhaps I'd have stopped taking the Chinese herbals, and just accepted death like the US doctors advised. Fate had me somewhat out of touch with the drug industry's news. Thank the fates! Eat well, sleep well, be well!anne <kanga2@...> wrote: I think our is going to have something to say about this one!!!! anne (putting up her fireproof shield) There is no proof that herbal remedies help hepatitis C sufferers http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/briefs/infectiousdiseases/hb040917c.htm?track=rss9/17/04Chinese herbsThere is no proof that herbal remedies help hepatitis C sufferersBy Helen FieldsNot everyone can tolerate the side effects of interferon, the standard treatment for hepatitis C. That leaves a lot of hepatitis C carriers stuck with fatigue and a less healthy life, which has led many to try herbal treatments. But the data on herbs are inconclusive. A group of Minnesota researchers tried out some traditional Chinese herbal medicines that are used extensively in Asia to treat hepatitis C.What the researchers wanted to know: Do Chinese herbal medicines help hepatitis C patients?What they did: The researchers recruited patients through clinics and advertising. Patients were excluded if they'd had antiviral treatment recently,

if they had other liver disease, or if they consumed more than two alcoholic drinks a day. Forty-five patients entered the study, and 31 made it all the way through the follow-up visits. Half the subjects took a combination of 10 traditional Chinese herbs and the other 10 took a placebo; no one knew whether a patient was getting the herbs or the placebo. Both groups took the tablets twice a day for 12 weeks. At several office visits, the participants were asked how they were doing and had blood taken to check on their liver and kidneys.What they found: The herbal medicines were no different from the placebo. Liver function was the same in people taking herbs and placebo. Neither group had less virus at the end of the trial, and quality of life showed no improvement, either. Side effects were mild, and there were about the same number in the two groups.What it means to you: The evidence on using herbs for hepatitis C is

still shaky.Caveats: This is a very small pilot study. Most of the subjects were middle-aged, white, and male, so the results might not apply to others.Find out more: Information on Radix astragali, one of the 10 herbs in this study, from a database of Chinese herbs http://www.herbasin.com/database/huangqi.htm Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Jackie Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Jackie

[Guest guest]

I try to steer clear of saying that I know this or I know that, because many things I thought I knew have turned out to be wrong. That said, I believe what Dr. Siegal wrote in his books on Mind-Body. In one documented case, he was doing brain surgery, the patient was of course unconscious, and their blood pressure had dropped too low. Dr. Siegal, in front of many witnesses, bent to the sleeping patient and explained that he wanted them to raise their blood pressure. To the amazement of all present, except perhaps Dr. Siegal, the patient's blood pressure began to rise, and stablized at near textbook perfect levels. If simply by desire to please a doctor that you admire, you can raise change something like blood pressure, I would not doubt that fear could cause most anything to manifest itself in the body. I think fear of the possible side effects causes an increase in the severity and frequency of the side effects. But I don't know

anything for sure! I can only suggest that everyone stay as possitive as possible. I don't think it can hurt. Like my happy mantra, I hope is chanting like crazy... "I beat the beast! I beat the beast! I beat the beast!" The worst could happen is some people will think she lost it. But look at the upside. Eat well, sleep well, be well!Jackie on <redjaxjm@...> wrote: well yes, in THAT sense of the word,, they can,, but you are right,, a lot of healing happens in our minds,, and our bodies follow,, but MOST placebos do not have the same side effects as INF,, I mean most ppl can feel awful, but I dont think that a placebo can make one become so anemic so as to need procrit,, but I think they can make one feel sick enough that they wonder IF they are

anemic.. you know what I mean? Im trying to make myself clear, sometimes I dont,, so if its not clear, please let me know,, I SO want Liz to clear,, and remain clear,, IM SO glad she is going to stick with tx,, I gotta help her stay hydrated tho,, Hunter <us2china2@...> wrote: I think you missed something, or didn't see all the information on placebos. They can have bad side effects. Look at the double blind placebo Interferon studies. Some of the people who recieved the placebo got just as sick as those recieving interferon. This tells me that so very much of healing, and getting ill, is in our minds, or is at least affected by our thoughts. This is why I worried about . If someone has no hope, it can be like a poison. I'm so glad she recieved

such good news! "You ARE going to be cured hon!" Love to all, ChrisJackie on <redjaxjm@...> wrote: Yep,, , I have, in my studies been reading about the "placebo" effect and the thing that is so amazing is that when the person believes that something IS going to cure them,, it usually does,, there IS a mind-body connection.. They have even seen the placebo effect with new allopathic meds as well,, typically the BEST results are seen within the first several months after a drug is released,, then in time,, they lose their effects,, and that makes me wonder if some of the allopathic drugs are a placebo effect too,, but who cares,, I mean ,, if it works, who cares,, I truely hope they do more studies in this area,, as placebo have no side effects and are not harmful as

apposed to many other drugs and treatments that ARE harmful... I really like Dr. Weil as he is an MD who has integrated some eastern meds into his practice and has seen some pretty remarkable things... Keep believing and WHO cares if someone "says" it wont work,, if it did, it did,, and phooey on them,, hugs jaxHunter <us2china2@...> wrote: I really don't want to argue with anyone, especially when I know I'm outmatched. I did respond. Hopefully in a civil manner. But as I started to read that, the first thing I noticed was that it was a 2 and a half year old story... if I'd read that when it came out, and believed it, perhaps I'd have stopped taking the Chinese herbals, and just accepted death like the US doctors advised. Fate had me somewhat out of touch with

the drug industry's news. Thank the fates! Eat well, sleep well, be well!anne <kanga2@...> wrote: I think our is going to have something to say about this one!!!! anne (putting up her fireproof shield) There is no proof that herbal remedies help hepatitis C sufferers http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/briefs/infectiousdiseases/hb040917c.htm?track=rss9/17/04Chinese herbsThere is no proof that herbal remedies help hepatitis C sufferersBy Helen FieldsNot everyone can tolerate the side effects of interferon, the standard treatment for hepatitis C. That leaves a lot of hepatitis C carriers stuck with fatigue and a less healthy life, which has led

many to try herbal treatments. But the data on herbs are inconclusive. A group of Minnesota researchers tried out some traditional Chinese herbal medicines that are used extensively in Asia to treat hepatitis C.What the researchers wanted to know: Do Chinese herbal medicines help hepatitis C patients?What they did: The researchers recruited patients through clinics and advertising. Patients were excluded if they'd had antiviral treatment recently, if they had other liver disease, or if they consumed more than two alcoholic drinks a day. Forty-five patients entered the study, and 31 made it all the way through the follow-up visits. Half the subjects took a combination of 10 traditional Chinese herbs and the other 10 took a placebo; no one knew whether a patient was getting the herbs or the placebo. Both groups took the tablets twice a day for 12 weeks. At several office visits, the participants were asked how

they were doing and had blood taken to check on their liver and kidneys.What they found: The herbal medicines were no different from the placebo. Liver function was the same in people taking herbs and placebo. Neither group had less virus at the end of the trial, and quality of life showed no improvement, either. Side effects were mild, and there were about the same number in the two groups.What it means to you: The evidence on using herbs for hepatitis C is still shaky.Caveats: This is a very small pilot study. Most of the subjects were middle-aged, white, and male, so the results might not apply to others.Find out more: Information on Radix astragali, one of the 10 herbs in this study, from a database of Chinese herbs http://www.herbasin.com/database/huangqi.htm

MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Jackie Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Jackie

Relax. virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

[Guest guest]

I have a little story to tell about mind and body. Hee Hee I was at work one night, suddenly got a shortness of breathe. Found it hard to breath. Had a crushing feeling in my chest. I decided to alert on of the other nurses. She listen to my chest, she said "Janet you are wheezing like a bellows. Lots of rattling there. You have a cold or anything like that? I told her I have asthma but this doesn't feel like my typical attacks. No I didn't have a cold either. We contacted the supervisor and she said go on down to the ER and have them check you out. I was getting a little light headed at the time. I thought at the time, ya know might be a good idea. I get down there, they hook me up to the cardiac monitors, and so forth and just check me out. They called my home number just in case and got a

hold of my children. My husband was overseas at the time. The kids came up and the doctor came in, and said "Janet, you are having a asthma attack and you have what we call walking pneumonia. Kay, that is great. I still had like 5 hours of my shift to work out. He said no way, I am admitting you. Damn. Could I at least go back to my floor and sign off on my charts? He said he would have someone bring them over. Well the kids hear I was staying at least one night. And they decided to go back to a carnival that was in town. I was like What!! They said well you are in the hospital why should we stick around. My pulse rate climbed immediately to 230. uh huh, it did. the monitor started beeping, and ER personnel started running towards my cubicle. I was sitting up in bed, glowering at the kids. They (the ER personnel was like are you okay? I said yes, these kids are driving me nuts. They told them to go home as they were causing me distress and it was not

a good idea for them to be there. LOL My heart rate went back to normal. Then my son slipped back into the room asked me for 20.00 guess what happened. Yup you got it. I realized then that my heart rate would go high when I was stressed. So yes your mind and your emotions can have a lot to do with your healing and your physical well being. That is why I try to keep my life as positive as possible. I don't want the negative to effect me physically. Love Janet There are souls in this world which have the gift of finding joy everywhere and of leaving it behind them when they go." -Frederick Faber

[Guest guest]

Gee Janet, I really want ot say nice story, but... well there wasn't much nice about it, except that you are here to tell it. Plus it does demonstrate to some degree how the mind can control autonomic body functions.Janet <doc_jade@...> wrote: I have a little story to tell about mind and body. Hee Hee I was at work one night, suddenly got a shortness of breathe. Found it hard to breath. Had a crushing feeling in my chest. I decided to alert on of the other nurses. She listen to my chest, she said "Janet you are wheezing like a bellows. Lots of rattling there. You have a cold or anything like that? I told her I have asthma but this doesn't feel like my

typical attacks. No I didn't have a cold either. We contacted the supervisor and she said go on down to the ER and have them check you out. I was getting a little light headed at the time. I thought at the time, ya know might be a good idea. I get down there, they hook me up to the cardiac monitors, and so forth and just check me out. They called my home number just in case and got a hold of my children. My husband was overseas at the time. The kids came up and the doctor came in, and said "Janet, you are having a asthma attack and you have what we call walking pneumonia. Kay, that is great. I still had like 5 hours of my shift to work out. He said no way, I am admitting you. Damn. Could I at least go back to my floor and sign off on my charts? He said he would have someone bring them over. Well the kids hear I was staying at least one night. And they decided to go back to a carnival that was in town. I was like What!! They said well you are in the

hospital why should we stick around. My pulse rate climbed immediately to 230. uh huh, it did. the monitor started beeping, and ER personnel started running towards my cubicle. I was sitting up in bed, glowering at the kids. They (the ER personnel was like are you okay? I said yes, these kids are driving me nuts. They told them to go home as they were causing me distress and it was not a good idea for them to be there. LOL My heart rate went back to normal. Then my son slipped back into the room asked me for 20.00 guess what happened. Yup you got it. I realized then that my heart rate would go high when I was stressed. So yes your mind and your emotions can have a lot to do with your healing and your physical well being. That is why I try to keep my life as positive as possible. I don't want the negative to effect me physically. Love Janet There are souls in this world which have the gift of finding joy everywhere and of leaving it behind them when they go." -Frederick Faber It's a pleasure having you join in our conversations. We hope you have found the support you need with us. If you are using email for your posts, for easy access to our group, just click the link-- Hepatitis C/Happy Posting

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

Also proves that teenagers should be shut in closets and fed through the keyhold till they are of age. Those kids!! LOL JanetHunter <us2china2@...> wrote: Gee Janet, I really want ot say nice story, but... well there wasn't much nice about it, except that you are here to tell it. Plus it does demonstrate to some degree how the mind can control autonomic body functions.Janet <doc_jade@...> wrote: I have a little story to tell about mind and body. Hee

Hee I was at work one night, suddenly got a shortness of breathe. Found it hard to breath. Had a crushing feeling in my chest. I decided to alert on of the other nurses. She listen to my chest, she said "Janet you are wheezing like a bellows. Lots of rattling there. You have a cold or anything like that? I told her I have asthma but this doesn't feel like my typical attacks. No I didn't have a cold either. We contacted the supervisor and she said go on down to the ER and have them check you out. I was getting a little light headed at the time. I thought at the time, ya know might be a good idea. I get down there, they hook me up to the cardiac monitors, and so forth and just check me out. They called my home number just in case and got a hold of my children. My husband was overseas at the time. The kids came up and the doctor came in, and said "Janet, you are having a asthma attack and you have what we call walking pneumonia. Kay, that is great. I

still had like 5 hours of my shift to work out. He said no way, I am admitting you. Damn. Could I at least go back to my floor and sign off on my charts? He said he would have someone bring them over. Well the kids hear I was staying at least one night. And they decided to go back to a carnival that was in town. I was like What!! They said well you are in the hospital why should we stick around. My pulse rate climbed immediately to 230. uh huh, it did. the monitor started beeping, and ER personnel started running towards my cubicle. I was sitting up in bed, glowering at the kids. They (the ER personnel was like are you okay? I said yes, these kids are driving me nuts. They told them to go home as they were causing me distress and it was not a good idea for them to be there. LOL My heart rate went back to normal. Then my son slipped back into the room asked me for 20.00 guess what happened. Yup you got it. I realized then that my heart rate would go high when I was stressed. So yes your mind and your emotions can have a lot to do with your healing and your physical well being. That is why I try to keep my life as positive as possible. I don't want the negative to effect me physically. Love Janet There are souls in this world which have the gift of finding joy everywhere and of leaving it behind them when they go." -Frederick Faber It's a pleasure having you join in our conversations. We hope you have found the support you need with us. If you are using email for your posts, for easy access to our group, just click the link-- Hepatitis C/Happy Posting Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes

sharing a breeze. There are souls in this world which have the gift of finding joy everywhere and of leaving it behind them when they go." -Frederick Faber

[Guest guest]

LOL I've often thought that the cut off for legal abortions was about 18 years shy of where it should be.Janet <doc_jade@...> wrote: Also proves that teenagers should be shut in closets and fed through the keyhold till they are of age. Those kids!! LOL JanetHunter <us2china2@...> wrote: Gee Janet, I really want ot say nice story, but... well there wasn't much nice about it, except that you are here to tell it. Plus it does demonstrate to some degree how the mind can control autonomic body functions.Janet <doc_jade@...> wrote: I have a little story to tell about mind and body. Hee Hee I was at work one night, suddenly got a shortness of breathe. Found it hard to breath. Had a crushing feeling in my chest. I decided to alert on of the other nurses. She listen to my chest, she said "Janet you are wheezing like a bellows. Lots of rattling there. You have a cold or anything like that? I told her I have asthma but this doesn't feel like my typical attacks. No I didn't have a cold either. We contacted the supervisor and she said go on down to the ER and have them check you out. I was getting a little light headed at the time. I thought at the time, ya know might be a good idea. I get down there, they hook me up to the cardiac

monitors, and so forth and just check me out. They called my home number just in case and got a hold of my children. My husband was overseas at the time. The kids came up and the doctor came in, and said "Janet, you are having a asthma attack and you have what we call walking pneumonia. Kay, that is great. I still had like 5 hours of my shift to work out. He said no way, I am admitting you. Damn. Could I at least go back to my floor and sign off on my charts? He said he would have someone bring them over. Well the kids hear I was staying at least one night. And they decided to go back to a carnival that was in town. I was like What!! They said well you are in the hospital why should we stick around. My pulse rate climbed immediately to 230. uh huh, it did. the monitor started beeping, and ER personnel started running towards my cubicle. I was sitting up in bed, glowering at the kids. They (the ER personnel was like are you okay? I said yes, these kids

are driving me nuts. They told them to go home as they were causing me distress and it was not a good idea for them to be there. LOL My heart rate went back to normal. Then my son slipped back into the room asked me for 20.00 guess what happened. Yup you got it. I realized then that my heart rate would go high when I was stressed. So yes your mind and your emotions can have a lot to do with your healing and your physical well being. That is why I try to keep my life as positive as possible. I don't want the negative to effect me physically. Love Janet There are souls in this world which have the gift of finding joy everywhere and of leaving it behind them when they go." -Frederick Faber It's a pleasure having you join in our conversations. We hope you have found the support you need with us. If you are using email for your posts, for easy access to our group, just click the link-- Hepatitis C/Happy Posting Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. There are souls in this world which have the gift of finding joy everywhere and of leaving it behind them when they go." -Frederick Faber __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

yes chris,, its not a bad thing that some placebo's work, but to listen to some ppl , NOT HERE, but at other forums,, because a placebo might work and it cannot be explained,, NO ONE IN THEIR MINDS should ever try it cuz no one knows how it works or why.... Belief is a wonderful thing.. one of the reasons that the old shamans were so powerful in many old cultures,, the shaman believed he could heal someone,, and the someone believed that the shaman could heal them,, Hunter <us2china2@...> wrote: I try to steer clear of saying that I know this or I know that, because many things I thought I knew have turned out to be wrong. That said, I believe what Dr. Siegal wrote in his books on Mind-Body. In one documented case, he was doing brain surgery, the patient was of course unconscious, and their blood

pressure had dropped too low. Dr. Siegal, in front of many witnesses, bent to the sleeping patient and explained that he wanted them to raise their blood pressure. To the amazement of all present, except perhaps Dr. Siegal, the patient's blood pressure began to rise, and stablized at near textbook perfect levels. If simply by desire to please a doctor that you admire, you can raise change something like blood pressure, I would not doubt that fear could cause most anything to manifest itself in the body. I think fear of the possible side effects causes an increase in the severity and frequency of the side effects. But I don't know anything for sure! I can only suggest that everyone stay as possitive as possible. I don't think it can hurt. Like my happy mantra, I hope is chanting like crazy... "I beat the beast! I beat the beast! I beat the beast!" The worst could happen is some people will think she lost it.

But look at the upside. Eat well, sleep well, be well!Jackie on <redjaxjm@...> wrote: well yes, in THAT sense of the word,, they can,, but you are right,, a lot of healing happens in our minds,, and our bodies follow,, but MOST placebos do not have the same side effects as INF,, I mean most ppl can feel awful, but I dont think that a placebo can make one become so anemic so as to need procrit,, but I think they can make one feel sick enough that they wonder IF they are anemic.. you know what I mean? Im trying to make myself clear, sometimes I dont,, so if its not clear, please let me know,, I SO want Liz to clear,, and remain clear,, IM SO glad she is going to stick with tx,, I gotta help her stay hydrated tho,, Hunter <us2china2@...>

wrote: I think you missed something, or didn't see all the information on placebos. They can have bad side effects. Look at the double blind placebo Interferon studies. Some of the people who recieved the placebo got just as sick as those recieving interferon. This tells me that so very much of healing, and getting ill, is in our minds, or is at least affected by our thoughts. This is why I worried about . If someone has no hope, it can be like a poison. I'm so glad she recieved such good news! "You ARE going to be cured hon!" Love to all, ChrisJackie on <redjaxjm@...> wrote: Yep,, , I have, in my studies

been reading about the "placebo" effect and the thing that is so amazing is that when the person believes that something IS going to cure them,, it usually does,, there IS a mind-body connection.. They have even seen the placebo effect with new allopathic meds as well,, typically the BEST results are seen within the first several months after a drug is released,, then in time,, they lose their effects,, and that makes me wonder if some of the allopathic drugs are a placebo effect too,, but who cares,, I mean ,, if it works, who cares,, I truely hope they do more studies in this area,, as placebo have no side effects and are not harmful as apposed to many other drugs and treatments that ARE harmful... I really like Dr. Weil as he is an MD who has integrated some eastern meds into his practice and has seen some pretty remarkable things... Keep believing and WHO cares if someone "says" it wont work,, if it did, it did,, and phooey on them,, hugs jaxHunter <us2china2@...> wrote: I really don't want to argue with anyone, especially when I know I'm outmatched. I did respond. Hopefully in a civil manner. But as I started to read that, the first thing I noticed was that it was a 2 and a half year old story... if I'd read that when it came out, and believed it, perhaps I'd have stopped taking the Chinese herbals, and just accepted death like the US doctors advised. Fate had me somewhat out of touch with the drug industry's news. Thank the fates! Eat well, sleep well, be well!anne <kanga2@...> wrote: I think our is going to have something to say about this one!!!! anne (putting up her fireproof shield) There is no proof that herbal remedies help hepatitis C sufferers http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/briefs/infectiousdiseases/hb040917c.htm?track=rss9/17/04Chinese herbsThere is no proof that herbal remedies help hepatitis C sufferersBy Helen FieldsNot everyone can tolerate the side effects of interferon, the standard treatment for hepatitis C. That leaves a lot of hepatitis C carriers stuck with fatigue and a less healthy life, which has led many to try herbal treatments. But the data on herbs are inconclusive. A group of Minnesota researchers tried out some traditional Chinese herbal medicines that are used extensively in Asia to treat hepatitis C.What the researchers wanted to know: Do Chinese herbal medicines help hepatitis C patients?What they

did: The researchers recruited patients through clinics and advertising. Patients were excluded if they'd had antiviral treatment recently, if they had other liver disease, or if they consumed more than two alcoholic drinks a day. Forty-five patients entered the study, and 31 made it all the way through the follow-up visits. Half the subjects took a combination of 10 traditional Chinese herbs and the other 10 took a placebo; no one knew whether a patient was getting the herbs or the placebo. Both groups took the tablets twice a day for 12 weeks. At several office visits, the participants were asked how they were doing and had blood taken to check on their liver and kidneys.What they found: The herbal medicines were no different from the placebo. Liver function was the same in people taking herbs and placebo. Neither group had less virus at the end of the trial, and quality of life showed no improvement, either. Side effects

were mild, and there were about the same number in the two groups.What it means to you: The evidence on using herbs for hepatitis C is still shaky.Caveats: This is a very small pilot study. Most of the subjects were middle-aged, white, and male, so the results might not apply to others.Find out more: Information on Radix astragali, one of the 10 herbs in this study, from a database of Chinese herbs http://www.herbasin.com/database/huangqi.htm Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Jackie Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Jackie Relax. virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! Jackie

[Guest guest]

Jackie, maybe you missed your calling. I think you'd've made a darn good carpenter. You keep hitting the nail on the head. Chirs Eat well, sleep well, be well!Jackie on <redjaxjm@...> wrote: yes chris,, its not a bad thing that some placebo's work, but to listen to some ppl , NOT HERE, but at other forums,, because a placebo might work and it cannot be explained,, NO ONE IN THEIR MINDS should ever try it cuz no one knows how it works or why.... Belief is a wonderful thing.. one of the reasons that the old shamans were so powerful in many old cultures,, the shaman believed he could heal someone,, and the someone believed that the shaman could heal them,, Hunter <us2china2@...> wrote: I try to steer clear of saying that I know this or I know that, because many things I thought I knew have turned out to be wrong. That said, I believe what Dr. Siegal wrote in his books on Mind-Body. In one documented case, he was doing brain surgery, the patient was of course unconscious, and their blood pressure had dropped too low. Dr. Siegal, in front of many witnesses, bent to the sleeping patient and explained that he wanted them to raise their blood pressure. To the amazement of all present, except perhaps Dr. Siegal, the patient's blood pressure began to rise, and stablized at near textbook perfect levels. If simply by desire to please a doctor that you admire, you can raise change something like blood pressure, I would not doubt that fear could cause most anything to manifest itself in the body. I think fear of the possible side effects causes an increase in the severity and

frequency of the side effects. But I don't know anything for sure! I can only suggest that everyone stay as possitive as possible. I don't think it can hurt. Like my happy mantra, I hope is chanting like crazy... "I beat the beast! I beat the beast! I beat the beast!" The worst could happen is some people will think she lost it. But look at the upside. Eat well, sleep well, be well!Jackie on <redjaxjm@...> wrote: well yes, in THAT sense of the word,, they can,, but you are right,, a lot of healing happens in our minds,, and our bodies follow,, but MOST placebos do not have the same side effects as INF,, I mean most ppl can feel awful, but I dont think that a placebo can make one become so anemic so as to need procrit,, but I think they can make

one feel sick enough that they wonder IF they are anemic.. you know what I mean? Im trying to make myself clear, sometimes I dont,, so if its not clear, please let me know,, I SO want Liz to clear,, and remain clear,, IM SO glad she is going to stick with tx,, I gotta help her stay hydrated tho,, Hunter <us2china2@...> wrote: I think you missed something, or didn't see all the information on placebos. They can have bad side effects. Look at the double blind placebo Interferon studies. Some of the people who recieved the placebo got just as sick as those recieving interferon. This tells me that so very much of healing, and getting ill, is in our minds, or is at least affected by our thoughts. This is why I worried about . If someone has no hope, it can

be like a poison. I'm so glad she recieved such good news! "You ARE going to be cured hon!" Love to all, ChrisJackie on <redjaxjm@...> wrote: Yep,, , I have, in my studies been reading about the "placebo" effect and the thing that is so amazing is that when the person believes that something IS going to cure them,, it usually does,, there IS a mind-body connection.. They have even seen the placebo effect with new allopathic meds as well,, typically the BEST results are seen within the first several months after a drug is released,, then in time,, they lose their effects,, and that makes me wonder if some of the allopathic drugs are a placebo effect too,, but who cares,, I mean ,, if it works, who cares,, I truely hope they do more studies in this area,, as placebo

have no side effects and are not harmful as apposed to many other drugs and treatments that ARE harmful... I really like Dr. Weil as he is an MD who has integrated some eastern meds into his practice and has seen some pretty remarkable things... Keep believing and WHO cares if someone "says" it wont work,, if it did, it did,, and phooey on them,, hugs jaxHunter <us2china2@...> wrote: I really don't want to argue with anyone, especially when I know I'm outmatched. I did respond. Hopefully in a civil manner. But as I started to read that, the first thing I noticed was that it was a 2 and a half year old story... if I'd read that when it came out, and believed it, perhaps I'd have stopped taking the Chinese herbals, and just accepted death like the US doctors

advised. Fate had me somewhat out of touch with the drug industry's news. Thank the fates! Eat well, sleep well, be well!anne <kanga2@...> wrote: I think our is going to have something to say about this one!!!! anne (putting up her fireproof shield) There is no proof that herbal remedies help hepatitis C sufferers http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/briefs/infectiousdiseases/hb040917c.htm?track=rss9/17/04Chinese herbsThere is no proof that herbal remedies help hepatitis C sufferersBy Helen FieldsNot everyone can tolerate the side effects of interferon, the standard treatment for hepatitis C. That leaves a lot of hepatitis C carriers stuck with fatigue and a

less healthy life, which has led many to try herbal treatments. But the data on herbs are inconclusive. A group of Minnesota researchers tried out some traditional Chinese herbal medicines that are used extensively in Asia to treat hepatitis C.What the researchers wanted to know: Do Chinese herbal medicines help hepatitis C patients?What they did: The researchers recruited patients through clinics and advertising. Patients were excluded if they'd had antiviral treatment recently, if they had other liver disease, or if they consumed more than two alcoholic drinks a day. Forty-five patients entered the study, and 31 made it all the way through the follow-up visits. Half the subjects took a combination of 10 traditional Chinese herbs and the other 10 took a placebo; no one knew whether a patient was getting the herbs or the placebo. Both groups took the tablets twice a day for 12 weeks. At several office visits, the

participants were asked how they were doing and had blood taken to check on their liver and kidneys.What they found: The herbal medicines were no different from the placebo. Liver function was the same in people taking herbs and placebo. Neither group had less virus at the end of the trial, and quality of life showed no improvement, either. Side effects were mild, and there were about the same number in the two groups.What it means to you: The evidence on using herbs for hepatitis C is still shaky.Caveats: This is a very small pilot study. Most of the subjects were middle-aged, white, and male, so the results might not apply to others.Find out more: Information on Radix astragali, one of the 10 herbs in this study, from a database of Chinese herbs http://www.herbasin.com/database/huangqi.htm Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Jackie Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Jackie Relax. virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! Jackie

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

Thank you hon,, well I will have to get me a pair of overalls,, hehe,, Hunter <us2china2@...> wrote: Jackie, maybe you missed your calling. I think you'd've made a darn good carpenter. You keep hitting the nail on the head. Chirs Eat well, sleep well, be well!Jackie on <redjaxjm@...> wrote: yes chris,, its not a bad thing that some placebo's work, but to listen to some ppl , NOT HERE, but at other forums,, because a placebo might work and it cannot be explained,, NO ONE IN THEIR MINDS should ever try it cuz no one knows how it works or why.... Belief is a wonderful thing.. one of the reasons that the old shamans were so powerful in many old

cultures,, the shaman believed he could heal someone,, and the someone believed that the shaman could heal them,, Hunter <us2china2@...> wrote: I try to steer clear of saying that I know this or I know that, because many things I thought I knew have turned out to be wrong. That said, I believe what Dr. Siegal wrote in his books on Mind-Body. In one documented case, he was doing brain surgery, the patient was of course unconscious, and their blood pressure had dropped too low. Dr. Siegal, in front of many witnesses, bent to the sleeping patient and explained that he wanted them to raise their blood pressure. To the amazement of all present, except perhaps Dr. Siegal, the patient's blood pressure began to rise, and stablized at near textbook perfect levels. If simply by desire to please a doctor that

you admire, you can raise change something like blood pressure, I would not doubt that fear could cause most anything to manifest itself in the body. I think fear of the possible side effects causes an increase in the severity and frequency of the side effects. But I don't know anything for sure! I can only suggest that everyone stay as possitive as possible. I don't think it can hurt. Like my happy mantra, I hope is chanting like crazy... "I beat the beast! I beat the beast! I beat the beast!" The worst could happen is some people will think she lost it. But look at the upside. Eat well, sleep well, be well!Jackie on <redjaxjm@...> wrote: well yes, in THAT sense of the word,, they can,, but you are right,, a lot of healing happens in our

minds,, and our bodies follow,, but MOST placebos do not have the same side effects as INF,, I mean most ppl can feel awful, but I dont think that a placebo can make one become so anemic so as to need procrit,, but I think they can make one feel sick enough that they wonder IF they are anemic.. you know what I mean? Im trying to make myself clear, sometimes I dont,, so if its not clear, please let me know,, I SO want Liz to clear,, and remain clear,, IM SO glad she is going to stick with tx,, I gotta help her stay hydrated tho,, Hunter <us2china2@...> wrote: I think you missed something, or didn't see all the information on placebos. They can have bad side effects. Look at the double blind placebo Interferon studies. Some of the people who recieved the placebo got just as sick as those

recieving interferon. This tells me that so very much of healing, and getting ill, is in our minds, or is at least affected by our thoughts. This is why I worried about . If someone has no hope, it can be like a poison. I'm so glad she recieved such good news! "You ARE going to be cured hon!" Love to all, ChrisJackie on <redjaxjm@...> wrote: Yep,, , I have, in my studies been reading about the "placebo" effect and the thing that is so amazing is that when the person believes that something IS going to cure them,, it usually does,, there IS a mind-body connection.. They have even seen the placebo effect with new allopathic meds as well,, typically the BEST results are seen within the first several months after a drug is released,, then in

time,, they lose their effects,, and that makes me wonder if some of the allopathic drugs are a placebo effect too,, but who cares,, I mean ,, if it works, who cares,, I truely hope they do more studies in this area,, as placebo have no side effects and are not harmful as apposed to many other drugs and treatments that ARE harmful... I really like Dr. Weil as he is an MD who has integrated some eastern meds into his practice and has seen some pretty remarkable things... Keep believing and WHO cares if someone "says" it wont work,, if it did, it did,, and phooey on them,, hugs jaxHunter <us2china2@...> wrote: I really don't want to argue with anyone, especially when I know I'm outmatched. I did respond. Hopefully in a civil manner. But as I started to

read that, the first thing I noticed was that it was a 2 and a half year old story... if I'd read that when it came out, and believed it, perhaps I'd have stopped taking the Chinese herbals, and just accepted death like the US doctors advised. Fate had me somewhat out of touch with the drug industry's news. Thank the fates! Eat well, sleep well, be well!anne <kanga2@...> wrote: I think our is going to have something to say about this one!!!! anne (putting up her fireproof shield) There is no proof that herbal remedies help hepatitis C sufferers http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/briefs/infectiousdiseases/hb040917c.htm?track=rss9/17/04Chinese herbsThere is no proof that herbal

remedies help hepatitis C sufferersBy Helen FieldsNot everyone can tolerate the side effects of interferon, the standard treatment for hepatitis C. That leaves a lot of hepatitis C carriers stuck with fatigue and a less healthy life, which has led many to try herbal treatments. But the data on herbs are inconclusive. A group of Minnesota researchers tried out some traditional Chinese herbal medicines that are used extensively in Asia to treat hepatitis C.What the researchers wanted to know: Do Chinese herbal medicines help hepatitis C patients?What they did: The researchers recruited patients through clinics and advertising. Patients were excluded if they'd had antiviral treatment recently, if they had other liver disease, or if they consumed more than two alcoholic drinks a day. Forty-five patients entered the study, and 31 made it all the way through the follow-up visits. Half the subjects took a

combination of 10 traditional Chinese herbs and the other 10 took a placebo; no one knew whether a patient was getting the herbs or the placebo. Both groups took the tablets twice a day for 12 weeks. At several office visits, the participants were asked how they were doing and had blood taken to check on their liver and kidneys.What they found: The herbal medicines were no different from the placebo. Liver function was the same in people taking herbs and placebo. Neither group had less virus at the end of the trial, and quality of life showed no improvement, either. Side effects were mild, and there were about the same number in the two groups.What it means to you: The evidence on using herbs for hepatitis C is still shaky.Caveats: This is a very small pilot study. Most of the subjects were middle-aged, white, and male, so the results might not apply to others.Find out more: Information on Radix

astragali, one of the 10 herbs in this study, from a database of Chinese herbs http://www.herbasin.com/database/huangqi.htm Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Jackie Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Jackie Relax. virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! Jackie

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Jackie

[Guest guest]

Physicians Commonly Use Placebos to Placate Patients   CHICAGO, Jan. 3 -- A placebo to mollify, placate, or pacify patients is a preferred approach some of the time by nearly half the academic physicians who answered a survey here. full story http://www.medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/AlternativeMedicine/dh/7837 In many cases I assume the placebo is the medication.... Bingham DCHighland Chiropractic 503.546.9987