Re: Re: gypsum

[Guest guest]

Thanks .

It's the other way around, though. The mold eats its way out through the

paper. Call me crazy, but I can't see the point of using gypsum at all. There

are too many other materials suitable for building walls that don't come with

" pets " . I may be labeled as a radical, but I now consider the whole water

intrusion prevention idea to be a giant red herring. Sure, you don't want water

in your building. But it wouldn't be half as big a deal if you didn't have all

that gypsum in there to begin with. Even the fiberglass-clad wallboard doesn't

guarantee against mold, and for very good reason. If you don't want mold blooms

then why plant the stuff? And right in your home, of all places! Or, to quote an

older source, " Ye shall reap as ye have sown " . Kind of a no-duh proposition, the

way I see it.

If I ever do get the opportunity to build a home that's safe for me, I won't

be using wallboard in it at all - that's for sure. I'd rather use fiberglass

stuffed with old gym socks than fiberglass stuffed with gypsum, any time.

Kidding...sort of. But then again...no, I guess I'm not. I'd definitely take the

socks over the mold-farm-in-waiting.

Let's reexamine the whole fiberglass idea for a second. Replace spores

embedded in gypsum with rattlesnake eggs embedded in gypsum, just because

they're visible to the naked eye and easier to visualize and think about. Now

let's go back through all the usual questions and considerations again:

Rattlesnakes don't hatch as often or get as big if you don't feed them so

much. Manufacturers have a new product that still has rattlesnake eggs, but

doesn't come with its own snake food. It's on radio, television, and mentioned

in magazine articles all over the place. The manufacturers are proud and happy

and want you to know that they're really thinking of you. You have a near-miss

with a semi on the freeway because you were rolling your eyes...

A newbie asks, " Does this low-feed product mean I can safely have rattlesnakes

in my house now? "

" Shouldn't I be listening to these organizations devoted to warning me against

having too much rattlesnake food lying around? "

" Should I hire people to come in and measure (excuse me - estimate) my

rattlesnakes for me? "

" I don't feel so hot. Can you direct me an attorney who will sue other people

who think rattlesnakes are no big deal? "

" My landlord says rattlesnakes are everywhere, but I can't afford to move. "

" My sister-in-law says I'm a whiner and a hypochondriac, and I should just get

over it. "

" My boss seems to think I'm a trouble-maker. Maybe I shouldn't say anything

about the snakes. "

" My mom has a bunch of snakes in the sofa cushions, but she likes the couch.

Should we spray air freshener? "

" Will other attorneys tell me there's no proof I've been bitten? "

" Faith healers tell me that the rattlesnakes won't bite if I just maintain the

proper beliefs. "

" Natural health experts tell me my chi is out of whack and I'm not drinking

the right kind of tea. "

" A Psychologist told me they only bite people with bad attitudes. "

" My Psychiatrist gave me drugs in hopes I'll remain calm about it and get some

sleep. "

" My doctor told me to take aspirin and get some exercise. "

" The guy at the healthfood store sold me some vitamins and a meditation tape. "

" Panels of government experts tell me they haven't researched it, but I

shouldn't get excited about it unless I have more than ten rattlesnakes -and

that I really shouldn't talk about poison because they don't bite all the time,

and nobody is exactly sure when they will bite or why they do it. They tried it

in a lab, and they couldn't get the snakes to bite anything. So it's better not

to talk about it. It disturbs people and causes lawsuits. "

" The experts tell me it's of no concern unless 20-25% of the people in my

house have been bitten. Then maybe we should launch an investigation. "

" Some experts to tell me it might not be the rattlesnakes at all - it's more

likely cockroach poop. "

Hell comes to earth, and rains rattlesnake eggs and rattlesnakes all over one

of the finest supplies of rattlesnake food on the planet. The national

government experts suggest rattlesnake repellent and give everyone tin boxes on

wheels to stay in when they complain about it. The local government reopens the

bars. Bodies are being pulled out of homes nearly 90 days later. The local

hospitals say they aren't seeing that many sick people. The Coroner's Office,

however, is doing a land office business. The national government considers

giving the local government a whole lot of money to restart and promote the

traditional annual street party in real style. Corporations pay minimum wage

workers a bonus equal to about 4 months pay to go work in the snake-infested

area for a year, but do not offer healthcare coverage for snakebites. Smaller

companies hire illegal aliens without bonuses or any healthcare coverage at all.

" My doctor says I've been poisoned. "

" My doctor says I'm just allergic to rattlesnake venom. "

Experts admit that rattlesnake bites can irritate the skin a little.

Newbie asks, " How much CSM do I have to use to get this rattlesnake off my

leg? "

Both government and private industry experts suggest that the real problem is

people not being able to distinguish diamondbacks from gopher snakes and getting

all hysterical over it.

Government officials claim only the immune-compromised need to worry about

rattlesnake bites.

The governors of several states spend well over a million dollars to make sure

they don't have any snakes at all in their homes.

Instant Internet Marketing Millionaire geniuses tell me I just need a

super-duper snake filter and a smog generator. And a humidifier to keep the

snake eggs from hatching...until the power goes off, or the machine breaks, or I

forget to turn it on or something, but I'm perfectly safe until then...

Industrial Hygienists often warn that there are still more snakes outside than

inside, so don't get your pantyhose in a snarl over it.

Environmental experts talk about the problem having erupted about the time of

the Energy Crisis of the 1970's, failing entirely to note that these indoor

rattlesnake problems didn't exist at all back in the days when rattlesnakes and

water were generally kept outdoors where they belonged in the first place. (Many

people did, however keep rattlesnake food indoors and pasted to their walls, as

the snakes had some difficulty climbing over the thresholds and didn't find the

lack of water particularly attractive).

Ohhhhh, but wait a second! I totally left out the organizations that are

supposedly going to set some standards on the number of rattlesnakes allowed.

They reason that since there are rattlesnakes everywhere except maybe Ireland

and they're not sure how many snakes I can handle, they might as well not get in

a big hurry over it or anything.

You see what I mean. Once you remove the air of mystery caused by the stuff

being too small to be seen with the naked eye and the hype from the

manufacturers who keep selling us the stuff, the nose-burning scent of mold is

instantly replaced with the hearty aroma of bovine-derived fertilizer. You no

longer doubt yourself. You don't need a PhD to tell you what even the Village

Idiot can plainly see and has enough brains to avoid. Most of the questions fall

away altogether, and you can start thinking in more simple and practical terms.

kl_clayton <kl_clayton@...> wrote:

Well Done, Serena!

Thank you very much for that lesson in geography/geology/gypsum production!

There are some depostis in Cal out by Zyzyx (spelling? zyzix) in the lake beds

there, which

are mostly mud or dry except in the winter, when they turn back into lakes with

creatures.

That is when the curious go out in wading trousers and feel around in the muck

for

selenite crystals that grow there. they are often very large, and you can only

get them out

that time of the year, when the muck is mucky instead of dry and hard as a rock

(heehee). I

am pretty sure that you can go into most any dry lake that is mucky and find the

same

thing in any of the deserts around there, but there is a U run research station

at that

locale, so it gets more press.

I didn't know the spores were in the gypsum. It sounds kind of like the Valley

fever fungus,

which is found in the rock strata all through the west. Or it could be

introduced in the

paper part of the sheetrock making process, I suppose. I doubt the production is

sterile, or

intended to be. But, if it is in the gypsum, we are all screwed.

Then would the densmoore fiberglass sheetrock be any better, I wonder. My bad

sheetrock had the mold growing on the paper. I assume the " roots " went down into

the

rock, though. Also seems to like an anaerobic environment, it was on the side

with out air.

Which was the tile side in one bath, and on the back side in the other bath.

Thanks for the info.

>

> I thought the pyramid crack she made was kinda cute. I'm no geologist, but

unless my

brains have suffered an even greater meltdown than I thought, the spores come

from the

gypsum itself, built right into the wall. I don't known exactly how long it

takes gypsum to

form, but the stuff we get here in the US is what apparently used to be along

the edges of

an ocean that once spanned most of the continent. So. A while ago. Looks like

the spores

keep for a nice long while.

>

> Then, there's that little Mr. Wizard (excuse me - MIZ Wizard) thing where

you can take

some clean unused drywall, stick it in a ziplock with a bit of water and just

hang out for a

few days while it grows mold like Sea Monkeys while you watch. And the

similarity doesn't

stop there:

>

> " Sea-Monkeys® are a true miracle of nature. They exist in suspended

animation inside

their tiny eggs for many years. The instant-life crystals, in which the eggs are

enclosed,

preserve their viability and help to extend still further their un-hatched life

span! Sea-

Monkeys are real Time-Travelers asleep in biological time capsules for their

strange

journey into the future!

>

> Scientists call this amazing rare process " cryptobiosis " which means, " hidden

life " .

Among the types of life on Earth that are cryptobiotic in early stages of

development are

the seeds of higher plants (wheat grains from the tombs of the ancient Egyptian

Kings

have sprouted after being sealed in urns for more than 2,000 years), the larvae

of certain

insects, and the thick-shelled eggs of some crustaceans such as Daphnia, seed

Shrimps

(Ostracods) and Brine Shrimp (Artemia salina). Sea-Monkeys too belong in this

category,

since they are a variety of Artemia. A relative of Lobsters, Crabs, Fairy Shrimp

and other

crustaceans, instead of originating in the ocean, Artemia are found in salt

lakes and salt

evaporation flats. The waters of these areas are often so salty that Artemia may

be the

only non-microscopic animal inhabiting them. "

>

> Hmmm....so fungi are also capable of crytobiosis, and come from the same

kinds of

environment that Sea Monkeys do. Except then, I found this definition of

gypsum...

>

> " A common mineral sometimes added to water to make it simulate

high-quality

British brewing water. "

>

> Yuck, blehhh, ptooey! Think I'll stick with Japanese beer, thanks. At least

they're

particular about their fungi. Maybe the fungi are less campy but more

interesting than Sea

Monkeys, because you can make beer with them. New song - " Seeeeeeea Drunkies,

watch

'em drink 'n drive... "

>

>

> Ok. Sorry. That was dorky. And I'm stone cold sober. I swear it. But then,

I'm no

Harvard Phd. So forgive. Although....I probably could have figured this one out

brain-

damaged AND drunk, so I think Harriet Burge must be skipping her Wheaties or

something. I actually feel bad for her. Took, like 8 years and I don't know how

much in

student loans to get a wrong answer. Takes a whole lot less time and money to

just get

poisoned and use Google for a minute.

>

> And then, there're the black breast implants which have been excised from a

number

of women. I'll skip the link to the picture just now. But it's Aspergillus - a

lovely little

genus with several toxigenic species that likes drywall as a substrate.

Apparently, it also

likes water kept just at body temperature. Doesn't even require gypsum, and last

I heard,

no cellulose is added to those breast implants. " Substrate " is a nice $50 word

and all, but I

don't think the mold is very impressed with it. You can remove the water from

those, and

it'll grow a nice mold colony. You don't even have to add gypsum - or breasts.

>

> And here's a little gypsum trivia I found. It seems drywall isn't. Dry, I

mean. Ever. Read

on... from http://www.nationalgypsum.com/about/therock.html .

>

>

> Just what is gypsum? Where is it found, what is it used for and what

does it look

like? Get the details here.

> Very few people have ever heard of hydrous calcium sulphate. And even fewer

are

aware that hydrous calcium sulphate—CaSO4.2H2O as chemists know it—is gypsum,

the

rock nobody knows.

>

> In addition to being found in the Egyptian pyramids, gypsum rock is referred

to in the

ancient cuneiform scripts of the Assyrians. Its use was probably developed by

the Greeks,

whose influence certainly remains in the name by which the rock is known. They

called it

Gypsos, the source of our word " gypsum. " The Greeks, too, found just the word to

fit the

transparent mica-like form of gypsum they used in their temple windows. They

discovered

that sun, shining through this material, graced their altars with the effect of

moonlight, so

they named it after Selene, their Moon Goddess. Today, we still refer to it as

Selenite.

>

> Even the very geologic origins of gypsum are unknown. Many experts feel that

gypsum

deposits are a result of seas that once covered the area where the deposits are

now

located. Evidence of this can be seen today in the Caspian Sea and on the west

coast of the

Baja in California. Gypsum usually occurs in veins or ledges, but frequently

these have

been weathered away and the gypsum has washed into adjoining depressions in the

form

of sand mixed with earth. This sand is known to the trade as Gypsite and has

been used to

make a very satisfactory plaster. The White Sands in New Mexico, now a national

park, is

actually an outcropping of gypsum.

>

> Gypsum is a rock that, like limestone, occurs naturally in many parts of the

world. And,

like limestone, in an absolutely pure form it is white. However, the usual

presence of

darker impurities produces rock in varying shades of gray, brown and even black.

Since it

normally is found close to the surface, gypsum can be mined or quarried easily.

>

> The hero who first discovered the peculiar property that makes gypsum so

valuable

remains unsung. But mankind owes him a huge debt because gypsum can be ground up

and " boiled " or calcined at a comparatively low temperature until three-quarters

of its

moisture content has evaporated. When that happens, the rock becomes a fine

powder,

commonly known as plaster of paris. Our unknown friend discovered that by

returning the

water to the powder, he could make a mortar or pliable mass that could be formed

into

any shape and hardened. Gypsum, he had found, is the only natural substance that

can be

restored to its original rock-like state by the addition of water alone.

>

> When this great secret of nature became common gossip, it didn't take long for

man's

ingenuity to put it to work. How well it has served us through the centuries is

apparent

from a listing of a few of the ways in which gypsum is seen during an average

day.

>

> First of all, there is toothpaste. Gypsum forms the basis for some of the

well-known

brands of toothpaste, and thereby helps to pay the salary of some of

television's best-

known entertainers. Most of the fixtures in bathrooms are made of clay formed in

a mold

of gypsum plaster, and chances are that gypsum board is behind the wall tile.

>

> At the breakfast table, plates, cups and saucers are present which were shaped

on or in

a gypsum plaster mold, a mixture of plaster of paris and water. So were the

sterling silver

handles of knives, forks and spoons.

>

> On the way to work or school people step on sidewalks made of Portland cement,

which

contains a percentage of gypsum to regulate the setting time. Maybe their walk

is covered

with chalk marks from the game the children played the night before. But of

course, they

weren't made by chalk at all but by a molded stick of, you guessed it, soft

gypsum plaster.

Many streets and highways also contain their share of gypsum.

>

> Doctors and dentists, too, use gypsum for everything from dental molds to

splints.

>

> And so it goes. Everybody uses the rock nobody knows. lin, the

great

experimenter, was one of the first to introduce it in this country when he used

ground raw

gypsum, called land plaster, on his farm. Today, thousands of tons of land

plaster are

used in the U.S. each year.

>

> But, by far, the biggest part of the gypsum rock used in this country goes

into wallboard

for homes. Gypsum " boards " are formed by sandwiching a core of wet plaster

between two

sheets of heavy paper. When the core sets and is dried, the sandwich becomes a

strong,

rigid, fire-resistant building material. Fire-resistant because in its natural

state, gypsum

contains water; and when exposed to heat or flame, this water is released as

steam,

retarding heat transfer. Manufactured in unbelievable quantities on continuous

machines

up to two-thirds of a mile in length, gypsum wallboard, prefinished wallboard

and gypsum

sheathing, for use under exterior finishes, are among the most important

materials used

in housing.

>

> There are 80 plants with board manufacturing facilities in operation in the

U.S. today,

with a production capacity of 36 billion square feet of material a year. To

visualize this

gigantic production, think of a pathway 16-feet wide from the earth to the moon

or

perhaps a wall almost 270 feet high around the 25,500 mile circumference of the

earth.

This will give some idea of the vast contribution the gypsum industry is making

to the

nation's housing industry.

>

>

> National Gypsum Company, manufacturer and supplier of Gold Bond® brand

wallboard

products, is a leading producer in this field, operating 20 plants which turn

out a

seemingly endless stream of gypsum board products.

>

> Despite this tremendous output, though, there is plenty of gypsum to go

around. If

anything could be said to be unlimited, this could be applied to the gypsum

deposits in

the Northern Hemisphere. It is one material which we could never run short. In

the United

States these deposits are found in two principal belts - one starts in

southwestern Texas

and runs all the way to the Niagara River in New York State; the other belt

starts in the

Imperial Valley of California and fans out into Utah with a thin extension into

Montana.

These deposits range from slightly over a mile wide to 150 to 200 miles in

width.

>

> There are a few scattered deposits outside this area, but most of the domestic

gypsum

comes from these two belts. In addition, several million tons of rock a year are

imported

from extensive Nova Scotia and Mexico deposits to provide raw material for

Atlantic, Gulf

Coast and West Coast plants.

>

> That's how it is that gypsum, one of the most common materials in our everyday

living,

is " The Rock That Nobody Knows. "

>

> _______________________________________________

>

> So, let me repeat my new mantra one last time before I get out of here:

>

> " Reducing water intrusion is both a lovely and practical ideal. Call me when

you're

ready to talk about reducing gypsum, because I'm pretty sure that fuzzy noodle

salad in

the back of the fridge didn't crawl out and do this to me. "

>

>

>

> Serena

>

> There is no such thing as an anomaly. Recheck your original premise.

> ...Ayn Rand,

paraphrased

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Har! I think I've finally gone mad from it all.

It doesn't have to be an actual leak. Some of the worst I've seen came from

pipes that sweat into the spaces between the floors and upstairs bathroom floors

that eventually begin to rot from having water dripped on them. Both of those

situations take years to develop, and neither one requires drywall to get

started. It's when the wood begins to break down and the dampness eventually

spreads to a piece of drywall that things really get rolling. Small,

unventilated water heater closets and bathrooms will behave the same way in

time. Carpets that are left too wet after cleaning can do it, too. The drywall

usually begins less than an inch from the tackboards that hold the carpet down.

A hairline crack in a (whee, fiberglass again!) tub or shower enclosure will

behave the same way.

So it doesn't really take a fullblown leak or immediate contact with drywall

for any of those things to happen. And none of them would be prevented by

keeping general humidity levels low. And all of them get instantly worse when

the drywall finally does get damp. OTOH, there isn't a single situation in that

list that couldn't be designed right out of existence. (Man, I hate snakes! : )

Serena

There is no such thing as an anomaly. Recheck your original premise.

...Ayn Rand,

paraphrased

---------------------------------

Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.