Guest guest Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 pain under the right rib cage is liver, or gall bladder- I have a liver pain. I would see a Dr about that urine color > > I would be interested in this too, I have pain constantly under my > right rib cage since almost the begriming of my illness. I used to > have really dark urine on occasions but now every morning my urine is > dark brown without fail I don't ever remember having this problem > until just recently. > I realize that this may be more of a liver issue than kidney. Just > curious if others have this problem too. > > > > > > >Hi all--I have a serious question here. I've been having BAD renal (kidney) > >pain again for awhile now....can anyone tell me if they know the REASON we > >have this? I see my urologist tomorrow (actually, my urologist's partner!), > > & I'd like to share some info with him. I haven't had a good week! Last > >night I fell (again!) due to NO balance, & tonight I'm plenty sore. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Thanks Carl, I will make note. I like easy. I appreciate you explaining it to me. Loni " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote: Loni, In one sense, air filters are actually very simple. All you need to know is the size of the holes in the filter. A HEPA filter makes it easy because they are always 0.3 microns. That means any particle 0.3 microns and larger will be stopped, like sifting sand through screen wire or rinsing berries with a strainer. The berries stay while the water goes through. Almost all particles of concern are 1 micron or larger so a HEPA is sufficient. If it isn't a HEPA then it either doesn't remove small enough particles or it is " pretend " disguised as " new technology. " As for the math, I apologize for the confusion including the errors. The errors are really insignificant because the main point is that there is a precise way of calculating how much air a filter needs to move for a specific room and how often you want the air to go through the filter. The more times you want the air to go through and the bigger the room, the bigger the fan. The bigger the fan the higher the cost and the more noise. Forget my confusing math and look at the chart on the box for the filter. As for other ways of cleaning air, there really aren't any. Besides, filters are really a final step, not the first step to clean air. If you want cleaner air, the following actions are in order of most effective to least effective: 1. Remove the source. The contaminant is gone which means there is no exposure. It is no longer in the air so you don't need a filter. 2. Isolate the source. It is still there but it can't get to you. A sealed moisture barrier in a crawlspace for example, pet dander on walls that are vacuumed and then painted. Most is removed but what is left is behind the paint and you aren't exposed. Note: it is true for a light dusting of mold spores and fragments but not for mold growth. 3. Dilute the source by ventilation. It is still there but the exposure is decreased because it is mixed with more air. Especially effective with chemicals, not so effective with particles because many are too big to stay in the air. 4. Reduce the source by filtration. It is still there but portions of it are sequentially removed IF it goes through the filter. It's like removing mud from a flooded basement. First you need shovels to remove the mud, then brooms, then vacuums, then Q-tips. Air filters function more like Q-tips than shovels. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- > Carl, Well I am discouraged but thanks for being patient with someone > sick & new at this. I don't believe I deserved the kind of response > that I got. You have been very helpful. With the new technology (Ha) > RCI & UV Light, I didn't know what it was. Maybe I should see if Sears > would exchange the Hepa for another one to make sure it is doing > something. Don't know if they will. The math is a little much for me > right now but I guess it was incorrect from your other post. So > Basically I shouldn't expect the Hepa to clean a very large area. I > could tolerate a bigger fan if it gave me cleaner air I think. Loni > > " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote: Loni, > > I certainly don't want to discourage anybody from asking whatever they > need to ask, and you are right that there are other topics that are > repetitive. But like KC said, figuring out ozone is easy compared to > the other topics that are debateable. Ozone isn't. > > The HEPA " reaches " as far as the air movement from it " reaches. " > However, the farther away the less often it gets circulated through. > So the ratings for a particular sized room are really based on amount > of air not that ALL air is filtered equally. Now, here's the math: > > The filters are rated by cubic feet per minute (CFM) and they > recommend 4-8 air exchanges per hour. If you have a room that is 10x10 > feet that's 100 square feet. A typical 8 foot ceiling makes 800 cubic > feet for the room. If you want 10 air exchanges each hour, to make the > math easier, that is 8000 cubic feet that needs filtering. > > So how many CFM is needed to get 8000 per hour? Divide 8000 by 60 > minutes = 133 CFM. If you want only 6 per hour you need 6000 cubic > feet per hour = 100 cubic feet per minute. 4 exchanges per hour needs > only 67 CFM. Most of the HEPA filters now have accurate charts on the > box so you don't have to carry a calculator with you. > > The reason they don't make the fans bigger or faster is they cost more > and make more noise. For example, a 15 x 30 open area with 8 exchanges > per hour needs 480 CFM. That's BIG and noisy like the ones that > remediators use - just remember Rhonda's experience and how > disorienting it can be. Isn't math fun? And you all thought it was > boring and useless. Boring, yes. But powerful! > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC > > ----- > > Carl, > > Thank you for your KIND explanation & I will keep if I need to > > refer at any time in the future. I will certainly never bring it > > up on this forum again. However, many things are discussed over & > > over & over, not just ozone. The RCI & UV Light is fancy marketing > > I guess. I wondered what the UV Light was all about. Now I know, > > " nothing " . My friend LOVES her Eco Quest so I had to look into it. > > > > > > So what you're saying that just because my airspace looks filthy, > > the HEPA should be taking some smaller stuff out. I just wonder > > how far it reaches, Of course marketing says 500 square feet or > > so. Hmm. Maybe 24 square feet. Seems like the fans should be > > stronger & suck all that air in & clean it. Wishful thinking. When > > the sun comes in I just want to hold my breath. Yuck! > > > > We do want to believe & it is obscene because we're desperate for > > some fresh non toxic air. So the search goes on. > > > > Soon, in Arizona, it will be 110 plus degress & the doors will be > > closed, the A/C will be on & no ventilation for 6 or 7 mos. I am > > dreading it. > > > > It gets confusing when your Naturopath recommends an ozonator (of > > course when your not in the house). Sounds like you're really just > > stuck with cruddy air for the most part. > > > > Thank you SO much for this explanation-I'm sure lots of us didn't > > know that about sizes of particles & molecules etc. I don't look > > at every post because I just don't have time-too many? So if you > > said this before, I apologize. > > > > Ok Carl, You actually took the time to type all those rivers. WoW! > > I hope you are a fast typer. Ha! Loni > > > > > > " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote: > > Loni, > > > > You did express your doubts and ask, so congratulations! You also > > acknowledged that the ozone issue is a hot topic. And it is. It is > > true there are a lot of new people so I'll add a few more comments. > > That said, this whole ozone discussion is a repeat of a repeat of a > > repeat of a repeat. > > > > One of my favorite authors, Least Heat Moon, wrote a book > > called River Horse. He took a boat from the east coast to the west > > only on rivers. To make the point of how boring the long stretches > > of some placid rivers were he filled two pages with nothing but the > > words " river river river river. " He didn't even break the monotony > > with commas or an occasional " rock. " This recurring ozone discussion > > is beginning to read like those two pages of river river river river > > river river river river river river river river river river river > > river river river river river river river river river river river > > river river river river river river river river river river river > > river river river river river. Except the noun changes as the market > > catches on to the deceit. > > > > Your criteria for the removal capabilities of dust is whether or not > > it removes enough dust see a reduction in dust. Simple, straight > > forward, common sense. Your evaluation of your HEPA is that it fails > > your test. Great! But why? > > > > The HEPA and any other filter that strains particles from the air > > only removes the particles that go through the HEPA. Particles at > > some distance from the HEPA won't ever go through it and won't be > > removed. Also, if the dust is disturbed from surfaces, HVAC, open > > windows, pets, etc, and comes in at the same rate that the HEPA > > removes then you won't see any difference. > > > > Think of a lake. If the water comes in as fast as it leaves it stays > > the same. If less, it dries up. If greater, it's called a flood. So > > if dust comes into a room too fast it's called " a lack of ozone. " > > Ooops! I got ahead of myself. If dust input is greater, it > > accumulates. Particles 101 and Air Filters 101. > > > > The CADR rating (Clean Air Delivery Rate) is based on all that plus > > more, such as most filters including HEPA aren't very good at big > > particles -- and visible dust is BIG!!!!!!! - a hundred times or > > more than what a HEPA is designed to remove. Because they never make > > it to the filter! They settle out first on surfaces and can be seen. > > The bigger they are the quicker they fall but the less they can be > > filtered. > > > > So what about a different technology. Liked OZONE!!! What does ozone > > have to do with particles? If anything, they affect molecules which > > are thousands of times smaller than HEPA filtered particles because > > they are thousands of times smaller than the particles. Picture a > > grain of sand moving a mountain. > > > > Also, notice I said different " technology " not different " name. " The > > " Radiant Catalytic Ionionization " (huh?) with or without " UV Light " > > (what's UV got to do with dust?) is a " technology " more commonly > > called " marketing. " It is no different than the ultimate air > > purifier I wrote about last week. All words. > > > > They get away with hype and lies because they promise what we want > > most but is impossible to have. They will make tons of money before > > the law can shut them down because the law has to follow the law > > (outside of DC that is). They have to receive a complaint, gather > > evidence, build a case, get a " consent decree " through the FTC, > > notice they violated the decree over the past 2-3 years and then > > file a DOJ case to be tried in 2-3 years with appeals for another > > 1-2 years. In the meantime, they sell their " technology " to another > > corporate structure and continue un-interrupted. Maybe having a > > dictator would be better. ;-) > > > > And they have not cleaned the air for you or me or anyone. Instead > > they have filled it with a pollutant that is an irritant, sometimes > > asthma trigger, lung deterioration and other harmful effects. It > > replaces one source of exposure with another. And we allow it > > because WE WANT TO BELIEVE! We NEED to believe! To keep hope alive. > > Isn't this obscene? > > > > Remember " Particles 101 " and " Air Filters 101 " and " Ozone 101. " If > > taught that in kindergarden than we would have learned all we needed > > to know. > > > > Carl Grimes > > Healthy Habitats LLC > > > > ----- > > > I have bought a hepa that consumers reports recommended (Kenmore) > > > but don't see one bit of a reduction in dust in the air. Does > > > anyone know anything about Eco Quest Fresh Air. It is Radiant > > > Catalytic Ionionization w/ UV Light. Says it cleans up to 3000 > > > square feet. A friend has one & likes it but I'm not sure about > > > it. > > > > > > Loni > > > > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 mine's DEFINITELY not gall bladder, karen--i was a nurse, so i'm aware of that. liver? maybe......but i'm almost 99% SURE its renal. take care. v. [] Re: Air Cleaners > pain under the right rib cage is liver, or gall bladder- I have a > liver pain. I would see a Dr about that urine color > > >> >> I would be interested in this too, I have pain constantly under my >> right rib cage since almost the begriming of my illness. I used to >> have really dark urine on occasions but now every morning my urine > is >> dark brown without fail I don't ever remember having this problem >> until just recently. >> I realize that this may be more of a liver issue than kidney. Just >> curious if others have this problem too. >> >> >> >> > >> >Hi all--I have a serious question here. I've been having BAD > renal (kidney) >> >pain again for awhile now....can anyone tell me if they know the > REASON we >> >have this? I see my urologist tomorrow (actually, my urologist's > partner!), >> > & I'd like to share some info with him. I haven't had a good > week! Last >> >night I fell (again!) due to NO balance, & tonight I'm plenty > sore. >> > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 No, but maybe I will give it a try. Most vitimans seem to do nothing for me at best. I hate swallowing pills. I try to eat a ballanced diet but that is a problem in it's self becuase I seem to react to food a lot of the time. I won't eat carrots or celory or lettuce that has been in my fridge more than four or five days becuase I am starting to think that the slim or bacteria that grows on produce makes me sick. After ten years of being sick I have come to the conclusion that the things I react to are almost always organism's. Dust, Dust mites, mold, bacteria. On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 18:49:28 -0800, you wrote: > >hi again robert--the milk thistle helps my pain, though--what about yours? >have you tried it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 milk thistle is an herb preparation, robert--not a vitamin. but i'm telling you, it REALLY works--i , too, was shocked. take care, & good luck! v. Re: [] Re: Air Cleaners > No, but maybe I will give it a try. Most vitimans seem to do nothing > for me at best. I hate swallowing pills. I try to eat a ballanced > diet but that is a problem in it's self becuase I seem to react to > food a lot of the time. > I won't eat carrots or celory or lettuce that has been in my fridge > more than four or five days becuase I am starting to think that the > slim or bacteria that grows on produce makes me sick. > After ten years of being sick I have come to the conclusion that the > things I react to are almost always organism's. Dust, Dust mites, > mold, bacteria. > > > > > > On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 18:49:28 -0800, you wrote: > >> >>hi again robert--the milk thistle helps my pain, though--what about yours? >>have you tried it? > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 , HEPA filters will remove the physically larger particles from the air. They work like a sieve, which doesn't have anything at all to do with mycotoxins. Some research indicates that smaller particles have higher toxicity by weight, I think, so thats something to be concerned about! The particles that cruise through the HEPA filter may be the most dangerous to your body because of their small size. The same issue exists for masks. OTOH, filtration IS helpful in emergency situations when elimination (physical removal of all mold) or dilution (letting in lots of fresh air to dilute any particles in the air) is not available. But the smaller particles (the ones the filters don't filter out) are also the ones that go the deepest into your lungs! The most dangerous. Brand name has nothing to do with that ability, in that all filters are the same, except that different filters may be different in their pore sizes and ability to fiter out some VOCs (some filters have activated charcoal, but that activated charcoal's ability to fiter out VOCs doesn't last very long in a high VOC situation) I am not an expert on filtration by any means. It is useful for people in situations where they need to reduce the amount of particulates in the air. But they might also be dangerous in the sense that they might induce in people who are using them a false sense of security in a dangerous situation. If you keep that in mind, you'll be better off in the long run. As far as UV light, honestly, I don't know UV light's effect on mycotoxins. I suspect that UV light is effective mostly in killing some viable bacteria, viruses, etc. I don't think that the oxidation effect of light even kills all bacteria, either. As far as lights? The sun emits strong UV light, MUCH stronger than any light fixture. Putting objects in bring sunlight for several days is known to reduce the reactivity to people of mold on an object. If a manufacturer is making claims for a product, there may be some EPA regulations that they need to follow. There might (I would think should) be more information on the EPAs web site about specific products, which could be looked up perhaps by the manufacturer. Mycotoxins I think can be much more durable than bacteria. Some mycotoxins, like trichothecenes, are incredibly resistant to deactivation and again, I think its prudent to assume that unless you hear from a reputable authority on a particular kind of mycotoxin (people like Dr. Straus at TTUHSC for trichothecenes, for example) that a particular decontamination strategy is effective for that substance) I would assume as the default that it does NOT reduce its toxicity to be safe. So a filter might reduce the amount of particles, but the particles remaining might be more toxic, by weight. (but there would be less of them) and more able to penetrate deeply into the lungs, on the average. In practice, in a severe mold environment, you would probably get some relief, but not enough to make a situation safe especially if you spent a lot of time there. Better to remove the mold itself if possible. I hope that I wasn't too annoying explaining this. I don't guarantee its 100% accurate, but I think its fairly close.. Non-experts like me may know the mechanics somewhat but there are some legal definitions involved with stuff like this.. I can't explain them as I don't know the acronyms and specs they use.. (Carl for example, would.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 LiveSimply, You did a good enough job! Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- On Fri Nov 02 15:45:45 PDT 2007, LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote: > , > > HEPA filters will remove the physically larger particles from the > air. > > They work like a sieve, which doesn't have anything at all to do > with > mycotoxins. Some research indicates that smaller particles have > higher > toxicity by weight, I think, so thats something to be concerned > about! The > particles that cruise through the HEPA filter may be the most > dangerous to > your body because of their small size. The same issue exists for > masks. > > OTOH, filtration IS helpful in emergency situations when > elimination > (physical removal of all mold) or dilution (letting in lots of > fresh air to > dilute any particles in the air) is not available. But the > smaller > particles (the ones the filters don't filter out) are also the > ones that > go the deepest into your lungs! The most dangerous. Brand name > has nothing > to do with that ability, in that all filters are the same, > except that > different filters may be different in their pore sizes and > ability to fiter > out some VOCs (some filters have activated charcoal, but that > activated > charcoal's ability to fiter out VOCs doesn't last very long in a > high VOC > situation) > > I am not an expert on filtration by any means. It is useful for > people in > situations where they need to reduce the amount of particulates > in the air. > But they might also be dangerous in the sense that they might > induce in > people who are using them a false sense of security in a > dangerous > situation. If you keep that in mind, you'll be better off in the > long run. > > As far as UV light, honestly, I don't know UV light's effect on > mycotoxins. > I suspect that UV light is effective mostly in killing some > viable bacteria, > viruses, etc. I don't think that the oxidation effect of light > even kills > all bacteria, either. > As far as lights? The sun emits strong UV light, MUCH stronger > than any > light fixture. Putting objects in bring sunlight for several days > is known > to reduce the reactivity to people of mold on an object. If a > manufacturer > is making claims for a product, there may be some EPA regulations > that they > need to follow. There might (I would think should) be more > information on > the EPAs web site about specific products, which could be looked > up perhaps > by the manufacturer. > > Mycotoxins I think can be much more durable than bacteria. Some > mycotoxins, > like trichothecenes, are incredibly resistant to deactivation and > again, I > think its prudent to assume that unless you hear from a reputable > authority > on a particular kind of mycotoxin (people like Dr. Straus > at TTUHSC > for trichothecenes, for example) that a particular > decontamination strategy > is effective for that substance) I would assume as the default > that it does > NOT reduce its toxicity to be safe. So a filter might reduce the > amount of > particles, but the particles remaining might be more toxic, by > weight. (but > there would be less of them) and more able to penetrate deeply > into the > lungs, on the average. In practice, in a severe mold environment, > you would > probably get some relief, but not enough to make a situation safe > especially > if you spent a lot of time there. Better to remove the mold > itself if > possible. > > > I hope that I wasn't too annoying explaining this. I don't > guarantee its > 100% accurate, but I think its fairly close.. Non-experts like me > may know > the mechanics somewhat but there are some legal definitions > involved with > stuff like this.. I can't explain them as I don't know the > acronyms and > specs they use.. > > (Carl for example, would.) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 Pat and LiveSimply, No particles " cruise " through a HEPA filter. Even at the size of .3 micron the least-efficiently trapped particle size), 60-70% of the particles are removed by a HEPA filter, so on multiple passes through the filter, air in a room would be cleaned by a HEPA air cleaner having a significant air flow. Because the mechanism for filtration (means by which most particles are trapped on the filter fibers) shifts around .3 micron, particles smaller than .3 micron are actually trapped MORE efficiently, so a much greater percentage of the smallest particles is trapped. Thus operating the filter certainly does NOT make the air less healthy to breathe. Filtration is certainly a temporary option for air cleaning but ALWAYS, source removal is the first step. Germicidal ultraviolet lights (and even tanning lights) can be far more powerful than the sun's rays and can be purchased, but these are mainly biocidal and at typical strengths might kill bacteria and viruses but would have no effect on mycotoxins (though in a lab, high-energy UV irradiation of gases and molecules solutions is a very common method of bringing about chemical change). Nonetheless, putting items in the sun to air out is a fine method for eliminating all sorts of problems; more importantly, the method is free and safe. A HEGA (gas) filter is not necessary and to be honest, if the fan noise isn't a problem, you don't have to spend over $200 for a decent air purifier. C. May, M.A., CIAQP May Indoor Air Investigations LLC 3 Tolkien Lane Tyngsborough, MA 01879 617-354-1055 www.mayindoorair.com www.myhouseiskillingme.com writes: > > Air Cleaners > Posted by: " Patilla DaHun " glypella@... glypella > Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 5:15 am ((PDT)) > > Does anyone know if I need a UV filter besides a HEPA filter to get > rid of mycotoxins? I think I've narrowed my search down to either an > IQAir HealthPro Plus or a Rabbit air cleaner. The IQAir's more > expensive air purifier has a gas HEGA filter also. Is that necessary? > > Barth > > > Re: Air Cleaners > Posted by: " LiveSimply " quackadillian@... > Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 6:21 pm ((PDT)) > > , > > HEPA filters will remove the physically larger particles from the air. > > They work like a sieve, which doesn't have anything at all to do with > mycotoxins. Some research indicates that smaller particles have higher > toxicity by weight, I think, so thats something to be concerned about! The > particles that cruise through the HEPA filter may be the most dangerous to > your body because of their small size. The same issue exists for masks. > >............... > I suspect that UV light is effective mostly in killing some viable bacteria, > viruses, etc. I don't think that the oxidation effect of light even kills > all bacteria, either. > As far as lights? The sun emits strong UV light, MUCH stronger than any > light fixture. Putting objects in bring sunlight for several days is known > to reduce the reactivity to people of mold on an object. If a manufacturer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 Jeff, did it seem like I was saying that the filter made it less safe to breathe? I didn't mean it that way at all but I could see how it might seem so. What I meant is that many people might be tempted to see the use of a filter as substituting for getting rid of mold or removing themselves from an uncontrollable situation and that that was not a good long term strategy because the filter was not as good at removing the smallest particles as the larger ones. (at least on the first go around) I HAD forgotten that the *multiple passes* are important to doing that.. Also, I had never heard of a HEGA filter at all.. Thank all of you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 Hi Jeff! Thanks so much for the info. You're a wealth of info and your book is wonderful. I thought that the HEGA filter would rid the house of the musty smell that emanates every now and then from who knows where. You just saved me some money. Barth --- JM> Pat and LiveSimply, JM> No particles " cruise " through a HEPA filter. Even at the size of .3 micron JM> the least-efficiently trapped particle size), 60-70% of the particles are JM> removed by a HEPA filter, so on multiple passes through the filter, air in a JM> room would be cleaned by a HEPA air cleaner having a significant air flow. JM> Because the mechanism for filtration (means by which most particles are JM> trapped on the filter fibers) shifts around .3 micron, particles smaller JM> than .3 micron are actually trapped MORE efficiently, so a much greater JM> percentage of the smallest particles is trapped. Thus operating the filter JM> certainly does NOT make the air less healthy to breathe. JM> Filtration is certainly a temporary option for air cleaning but ALWAYS, JM> source removal is the first step. JM> Germicidal ultraviolet lights (and even tanning lights) can be far more JM> powerful than the sun's rays and can be purchased, but these are mainly JM> biocidal and at typical strengths might kill bacteria and viruses but would JM> have no effect on mycotoxins (though in a lab, high-energy UV irradiation of JM> gases and molecules solutions is a very common method of bringing about JM> chemical change). JM> Nonetheless, putting items in the sun to air out is a fine method for JM> eliminating all sorts of problems; more importantly, the method is free and JM> safe. JM> A HEGA (gas) filter is not necessary and to be honest, if the fan noise JM> isn't a problem, you don't have to spend over $200 for a decent air JM> purifier. JM> C. May, M.A., CIAQP JM> May Indoor Air Investigations LLC JM> 3 Tolkien Lane JM> Tyngsborough, MA 01879 JM> 617-354-1055 JM> www.mayindoorair.com JM> www.myhouseiskillingme.com JM> writes: >> > Air Cleaners >> Posted by: " Patilla DaHun " glypella@... glypella >> Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 5:15 am ((PDT)) >> >> Does anyone know if I need a UV filter besides a HEPA filter to get >> rid of mycotoxins? I think I've narrowed my search down to either an >> IQAir HealthPro Plus or a Rabbit air cleaner. The IQAir's more >> expensive air purifier has a gas HEGA filter also. Is that necessary? >> >> Barth >> >> >> Re: Air Cleaners >> Posted by: " LiveSimply " quackadillian@... >> Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 6:21 pm ((PDT)) >> >> , >> >> HEPA filters will remove the physically larger particles from the air. >> >> They work like a sieve, which doesn't have anything at all to do with >> mycotoxins. Some research indicates that smaller particles have higher >> toxicity by weight, I think, so thats something to be concerned about! The >> particles that cruise through the HEPA filter may be the most dangerous to >> your body because of their small size. The same issue exists for masks. >> >>............... >> I suspect that UV light is effective mostly in killing some viable bacteria, >> viruses, etc. I don't think that the oxidation effect of light even kills >> all bacteria, either. >> As far as lights? The sun emits strong UV light, MUCH stronger than any >> light fixture. Putting objects in bring sunlight for several days is known >> to reduce the reactivity to people of mold on an object. If a manufacturer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 I just bought two Austin Air junior units. They are recommended by the Environmental Health Center in Dallas, I am told.....Dr. Rea. Josie __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 I wish I could afford those I have small honeywell hepas air filters in every room. Two in the living room/dining room. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 How do you like them? Are they heavy? I know you have to turn them upside down to replace the filter. Barth --- P> I just bought two Austin Air junior units. P> They are recommended by the Environmental Health Center in Dallas, P> I am told.....Dr. Rea. Josie P> __________________________________________________ P> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 How much do the consumables on these filters cost and how often do they have to be replaced? I'd guess that for people with mold hypersensitivity, they need to be replaced more frequently than the manufacturers recommendations. So, maybe having a few mainstream (~$200-250) high capacity consumer-grade HEPA cleaners might be a better solution at a lower price than one or two of these hyper-expensive premium brand units? Because you could move more air through them at a lower unit cost. I think that is what Jeff was getting at the other day. A buyer should look at the square footage that needs to be cleaned and then the cost of all the consumables, prefilters, etc. over time. Another option would be balanced, powered ventilation. (HRVs or ERVs) A caveat is that I currently have no personal experience with these units and some well-informed people have told me that they can be problematic if not maintained well, but they also offer an option not available with filtration, continuous fresh air that is warmed (with your outgoing air) in the winter and cooled (in a similar matter) in the summer? For example, Panasonic has a new unit that looks very affordable compared to most I have seen. It installs like a bathroom vent fan (except that it has two vents to the outside instead of one) . Its a reputable vendor that has a track record and looks like a good option for people in coastal climates that don't get too cold. (it then has to defrost the core) It all depends on the kind of issues you have. I think fresh air is more desirable than filtered air in almost all situations. The Panasonic I think has washable filters.. Its not an air filtration unit, its a heat exchanger/ventilator. A completely different animal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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