Forks over Knives

[Guest guest]

hi i just thought it would be helpful to give a basic definition of macrobiotics, and then build upon it. macrobiotics is a philosophy of balance and avoiding extremes, and it can be applied to many areas of our lives. i think the biggest mistake people make is to get too hung up on the food and that was me. keep it simple at first, and take it step by step. i mentioned previously that the doing the body rub everyday was very helpful to me. Waxman gives a great description of this in her book Eat Me Now, she calls it the Hot Towel Rub. you aren't exfoliating or sloughing here it is just enough pressure to give a light friction. always wear cotton, and take a walk outside everyday. also has some wonderful recipes in the book hich i will talk about later.From: -owner <-owner >Subject: forks over knives Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 7:25 PM

Thanks for posting this Klara,

I should have done that a while ago, Gene has been talking about it and I really should have promoted it here.

I think part of the problem is that now I've got the account set up to approve each message and since I have to also approve my messages it's annoying. I'll try to become more active here again...

[Guest guest]

,

I haven't seen the film, but checked into what it is about.

I can see why you would ask this question on this forum as it seems to be

against the use of foods from animal sources, which we tout as being healthy.

My theory on this is that there are different metabolic types. I think some of

us can do quite well, even long term, on a vegetarian diet. Many of us may even

feel better, short term, on a diet like that, but would eventually experience

degeneration in the long run. Others, like myself, would not do well at all,

pretty much right from the very beginning.

I teach that we each have to figure out what type we are by listening to our

bodies. To make things even more complicated, I think our metabolic type can

change based on things like life circumstances, life stage, climate, activity

level, stress level, and pregnancy, just to give a few examples. So we have to

stay attuned and keep figuring it out over our lifetime.

It is my understanding that all or nearly all traditional cultures used some

animal-based foods. Our modern culture teaches that it is " important to eat your

fruits and vegetables " which is not all bad, but animal products, especially egg

yolks, liver, fish eggs, cream/butter and other fats are the most nutrient-dense

foods that you can consume.

HTH,

Kathy

Niflis BSN, RN

Natural Health Educator

Optimal Health Connection

Woodbury, MN

www.optimalhealthconnection.com

[Guest guest]

I started watching it. It promotes a vegetarian diet and I wouldn't necessarily

stop watching it for that reason. It's likely foolish to only listen to things

that we 100% agree with so it stand to reason we should take as much interest in

this as other documentaries, perhaps to find common ground in our food freedom

fight, perhaps to better understand our opponents arguments. That being said, I

fell asleep after fifteen minutes or so and haven't been terribly motivated to

tune back in. It's on my to-do list I guess.

.

>

> For those of you who have seen the documentary Forks Over Knives, I'm curious

to hear your thoughts?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have only been able to watch half of it and at this point feel like it offers

a lot of great info but wonder if it is still lacking info or detail as it

pertains to other things. I would have to agree that we live in a society that

overeats (especially processed meat and dairy) and is extremely deficient in

vegetables. While it seems that the documentary is pointing at vegetarianism as

the healthiest choice seems odd that there is no mention of the challenges that

go along with eating that way. But then again, I haven't finished watching it:)

[Guest guest]

Lots of good info. Hard to argue with it as the science is behind it.

>

> For those of you who have seen the documentary Forks Over Knives, I'm curious

to hear your thoughts?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here's a rebuttal that voices my first questions about the meat and dairy

they're talking about in the film..

http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2011/07/07/forks-over-knives-or-how-to-pretend-\

to-be-an-expose-documentary/

[Guest guest]

, great post - many good points! *Forks Over Knives* probably is a Big Ag

production. Thanks for sharing.

From: ryan2645 <ryan2645@...>

Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 8:57 AM

Subject: Re: Forks Over Knives

 

Here's a rebuttal that voices my first questions about the meat and dairy

they're talking about in the film..

http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2011/07/07/forks-over-knives-or-how-to-pretend-\

to-be-an-expose-documentary/

[Guest guest]

I think the most valuable, fundamental point the documentary makes is that the

SAD is making us sick. Unfortunately, the film focuses on " whole plant-based

foods " as the only alternative to SAD. The film claimed that the plant-based

foods can cure and reverse cancer -- when perhaps simply avoiding the SAD is

what accomplished the cancer cure. No mechanism was identified for the cure

attributed to plant-based foods, leaving us with a simple correlation:

plant-based foods cured the cancer. No distinction was made between quality

animal products and standard, commodity animal products. Little mention was

made of fats, except to continue to demonize saturated fats; the film operated

under the assumption of (proven invalid) lipid hypothesis.

I wholeheartedly agree that we should avoid the Standard American Diet. But I

need a more thorough explanation and understanding of what we need to replace

that with. The Weston A. Price Foundation gives us that, relying on good theory

and thorough science about what great nutrition comes from a varied, complex

diet, including quality animal fats. I agree Americans, in general, eat too

much meat. I suggest to people that they take their current budget spent on

meat, dairy, eggs, and other animal products, and spend that amount of money on

grassfed meats and dairy, pastured poultry and pork. That would reduce their

total animal product intake, but vastly improve its quality. WAPF gives us an

understanding of the mechanisms we benefit from, when we eat a varied diet of

healthy vegetables, fruits, and quality animal products.

Unfortunately, at bottom, the film is another " single cause " analysis of a very

complex issue.

Tom Hunter

[Guest guest]

The rebuttal article appears to me to be conjecture and opinion. Surely we all

have opinions about the food we eat. And we respectfully share them on this

list. I subscribe to Pollan's " eat food. mostly plants. not too much "

theory.

Mr. Pollan supports eating real food, not food-like substances. Something I

think everyone on this list can get behind.

I dont see how this film would help Big Ag since much of Big Ag is tied up with

commodity GMO corn.

>

>

>

> Here's a rebuttal that voices my first questions about the meat and dairy

they're talking about in the film..

>

>

http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2011/07/07/forks-over-knives-or-how-to-pretend-\

to-be-an-expose-documentary/

>

[Guest guest]

COK(compassion over killing): Was there anything you wish you could have added

in the film?

BW( Wendel the Producer): Some people believe that if animals were raised

better, the meat, dairy, and eggs we consume would be healthy. The film's

experts disagree. I wanted to discuss this in the film, but it would have become

too lengthy. However, Dr. does address this in a DVD bonus feature.

Yeah , absolutely, a lot of people have their own opinions, some don't

because they're not even conscious of it, or put their energy elsewhere, but the

reason I put the article up was for a balanced perspective. This film is

unbalanced, so I was giving the other side of the equation. There are people out

there thriving entirely on meat with little to zero plant foods, that is just

fact, how do we explain these folks? Well, logically we have to assume that

people can thrive on diets composed heavily of animal foods and that plants are

not essential at all. Plants certainly are healthy for us, but they absolutely

cannot healthfully provide all the nutrients that the vast majority of us need.

There are very few individuals out there who will be healthy in the long term on

a vegetarian/vegan diet. Eventually it catches up with them. At first they will

seem healthy because they will, at least if the diet hosts a lot of raw veggies,

be detoxing out all of their tissue because that is the nature of the diet. But

eventually they will be clean (unless they're eating lots of cooked foods and

soy) and they will deplete any stores of the nutrients that come from an animal

diet. For that reason this film is dangerous. Not to mention that we need

grazers to manure the land and those grazers need to be eaten in order that they

don't over graze all of the vegetation. That is the way life is, and so far

there is no getting around it.

[Guest guest]

Carve out a little time with your forks and knives to read this informative,

hilarious and thorough critique of the film:

http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review\

-and-critique/

[Guest guest]

Just watched the documentary " Forks over Knives " about what the American diet is

doing to us and how most of us could benefit from a diet of whole plant based

foods. I totally believe what they are saying and have been sliding into this

way of life gradually and now think it is time to take the final plunge to being

Vegan. Am digging out my old vegetarian cookbooks and planning some menus. Will

have to come up with good stuff to feed grand babies and my big babies when they

come over. So, Lee-Ann I will be contacting you to order 2 containers, dry one

(Whole grains book comes with it, right??)and small one and a tamper and

spatulas. Really wanting to start to feel more my old self and I am sure that

inflammation from the way we eat in this country is taking it's tole on me. I'm

thinking if I am successful at this change, I may be able to free up a lot of

highly prized real estate in my kitchen now housing many many kitchen toys. Not

sure what I can do about my milk kefir though, really hate to give that up.

Sure would be nice if Miss (waving at ) would sit herself down and

jot down some of here favorite staples to make and what little tricks she has

found to replace dairy and eggs and cheeze.

Wish I had all the knowledge of you all, but I do believe strongly that our meat

based, carbohydrate highly processed fake food is killing us. So, given that

belief, it's time for me to make the changes I need to make! (Long Live the VM)

Carol K

[Guest guest]

I heard a lecture a few days go on a video on the net. I can't remember

where it was I heard it. It might have been at you tube. But he said that

process foods are so loaded with chemicals and they are causing cravings

and more hunger. And he thinks that's why there's so many over weight

people now. Everyone eats process foods. These chemicals are also

causing many diseases.

Lucille

--------------------------------------------------

From: " Carol " <ckarnes@...>

Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 9:03 PM

< >

Subject: Forks over Knives

> Just watched the documentary " Forks over Knives " about what the American

> diet is doing to us and how most of us could benefit from a diet of whole

> plant based foods. I totally believe what they are saying and have been

> sliding into this way of life gradually and now think it is time to take

> the final plunge to being Vegan. Am digging out my old vegetarian

> cookbooks and planning some menus. Will have to come up with good stuff to

> feed grand babies and my big babies when they come over. So, Lee-Ann I

> will be contacting you to order 2 containers, dry one (Whole grains book

> comes with it, right??)and small one and a tamper and spatulas. Really

> wanting to start to feel more my old self and I am sure that inflammation

> from the way we eat in this country is taking it's tole on me. I'm

> thinking if I am successful at this change, I may be able to free up a lot

> of highly prized real estate in my kitchen now housing many many kitchen

> toys. Not sure what I can do about my milk kefir though, really hate to

> give that up.

>

> Sure would be nice if Miss (waving at ) would sit herself

> down and jot down some of here favorite staples to make and what little

> tricks she has found to replace dairy and eggs and cheeze.

> Wish I had all the knowledge of you all, but I do believe strongly that

> our meat based, carbohydrate highly processed fake food is killing us. So,

> given that belief, it's time for me to make the changes I need to make!

> (Long Live the VM)

> Carol K

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

When we went from vegetarian to vegan, cheese was the hardest, but now you can buy alternative cheese that are vegan

SharonM

[Guest guest]

, waving back! I am happy to share my subs...and they are many! I eat

NOTHING processed, at all-ever. During the summer, early fall and spring, I

enjoy raw milk from my own cows, and I make kefir, yogurt, homemade cheese,

butter and other goodies. I have learned over the years to GIVE MY BODY A REST

from foods-I eat only what is in season, WHEN it is in season. I believe that

is WHY there are seasons for things, to give our bodies a rest. Since my diet

is very limited due to food allergies, I do try to make and freeze certain

things to eat off season, since I rely on them as staples-this would include

homegrown pumpkin, hard squash, and cauliflower, but other than those, I do

think our bodies need a rest from off season foods. This is often an overlooked

key to diet issues, since hot houses make it possible to have pretty much

anything year round...but I don't think we SHOULD have them. Just my opinion,

for what that is worth. During the times that I am off raw dairy, I rely on

nut, grain and seed milks-all of which are super easy to make in the Vitamix.

For cheese, you can make a wonderful " mock cheese " sauce, with cashews, pumpkin

or sunflower seeds, a pinch of sea salt, and some nutritional yeast (NOT bakers

or brewers yeast-it is called nutritional yeast-NOW brand is excellent) If you

want the benefit of kefir, but want to give up dairy (I think RAW dairy is fine,

but there are many reasons to give up dairy, mainly the fact that dairy is

designed to raise a 1200 pound cow-not a human, but I do think it has its

advantages) you can use WATER kefir, which are grains that feed off of fruits

and/or natural sugars. GREAT alternative to dairy kefir, or just for a change.

>

> I heard a lecture a few days go on a video on the net. I can't remember

> where it was I heard it. It might have been at you tube. But he said that

> process foods are so loaded with chemicals and they are causing cravings

> and more hunger. And he thinks that's why there's so many over weight

> people now. Everyone eats process foods. These chemicals are also

> causing many diseases.

>

> Lucille

>

> --------------------------------------------------

> From: " Carol " <ckarnes@...>

> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 9:03 PM

> < >

> Subject: Forks over Knives

>

> > Just watched the documentary " Forks over Knives " about what the American

> > diet is doing to us and how most of us could benefit from a diet of whole

> > plant based foods. I totally believe what they are saying and have been

> > sliding into this way of life gradually and now think it is time to take

> > the final plunge to being Vegan. Am digging out my old vegetarian

> > cookbooks and planning some menus. Will have to come up with good stuff to

> > feed grand babies and my big babies when they come over. So, Lee-Ann I

> > will be contacting you to order 2 containers, dry one (Whole grains book

> > comes with it, right??)and small one and a tamper and spatulas. Really

> > wanting to start to feel more my old self and I am sure that inflammation

> > from the way we eat in this country is taking it's tole on me. I'm

> > thinking if I am successful at this change, I may be able to free up a lot

> > of highly prized real estate in my kitchen now housing many many kitchen

> > toys. Not sure what I can do about my milk kefir though, really hate to

> > give that up.

> >

> > Sure would be nice if Miss (waving at ) would sit herself

> > down and jot down some of here favorite staples to make and what little

> > tricks she has found to replace dairy and eggs and cheeze.

> > Wish I had all the knowledge of you all, but I do believe strongly that

> > our meat based, carbohydrate highly processed fake food is killing us. So,

> > given that belief, it's time for me to make the changes I need to make!

> > (Long Live the VM)

> > Carol K

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Most vegan cheeses are soy based-a huge problem for those of us with soy

allergies. I like my mock cheeses, made in the Vitamix-very creamy and healthy.

I am vegan half the year, but enjoy my raw dairy the rest of it. I have no

problem giving my vegetarian daughter eggs from well cared for hens, but I am

allergic, so I don't eat them. I am told that many of the vegan cheeses now

available are quite good, so they may be a perfect option for anyone without

sensitivity to the ingredients in them.

>

> When we went from vegetarian to vegan, cheese was the hardest, but now you can

buy alternative cheese that are vegan

>

> SharonM

>

[Guest guest]

I went down KICKING AND SCREAMING when I realized that " food " was literally

killing me, and most certainly keeping me sick and crippled. I was forced to go

vegan/vegitarian/gluten free/casien free/nut free/you name it free, overnight.

Meat was the hardest for me...I had eaten, and very much enjoyed meat all of my

life-contemplating a diet without was almost more than I could bear. BUT...I

quickly began to regain my health (I had been told by my team of doctors to " get

my affairs in order " ..I really was just hanging on by a thread, not well at all.

I am 5'8 and was down to under 100 pounds-very sick. The DRAMATIC shift in my

health was enough to keep me motivated, and I very quickly lost my taste for

meat, dairy, processed food, and pretty much all of the garbage that I had been

eating. Mind you I didn't THINK what I was eating was " garbage " , but when I

learned the shocking truth about what is in our food, I was beyond stunned-and

beyond motivated to make some serious changes! Fortunately, I had/have always

been a " healthy " eater-have had my Vitamix for over 25 years, juices regularly,

made from scratch, etc-which is why I didn't understand how I was so sick in the

first place, on such a " healthy " diet. It was a REAL wake up call for me to

learn that the fruits, veggies and other " healthy " things I was eating, were

largely genetically modified, laden with pesticides, and generally not healthy

in the least. I think this is a common deception many of us face=we think

things like yogurt, granola, etc are " healthy " , when in fact the comemrcial

versions of them are horrid-full of chemicals, fats, preservatives, and

generally void of nutrition. It was even more shocking for me to realize that

the more I juiced commercially grown produce, the more I was poisoning my body

with pesticides, and the MOST shocking, was realizing that things like a head of

cabbage or an ear of corn, contained the DNA of things I was already allergic

to, through the genetic modificiation process-A HUGE deception being pulled on

the public! I am from the UK, and go back there often-I never could figure

out why I felt SO much better when I was there...NOW, I know it is because they

don't allow the processing like we do in the states, nor do they have GMO

foods-huge wake up call. I am not meaning any of this to be a scare tactic-just

putting it out there because I WISH I had been alerted to it long before I was,

so now I try to let anyone and everyone know to at least look into these sorts

of things and form your own opinions on whether you choose to eat them or not.

For me, it literally saved my life to choose better options. I could easily be

called " obsessive " , but at least I am still here, spouting my knowledge, a full

9 years after being told I wouldn't make it until the following Christmas... I

feel very grateful to have been " blessed " with the allergies and ailments I

have-otherwise, I would have just continued on the misled path I was on, not

knowing any better.

>

> > Just watched the documentary " Forks over Knives " about what the American

diet is doing to us and how most of us could benefit from a diet of whole plant

based foods. I totally believe what they are saying and have been sliding into

this way of life gradually and now think it is time to take the final plunge to

being Vegan. Am digging out my old vegetarian cookbooks and planning some menus.

Will have to come up with good stuff to feed grand babies and my big babies when

they come over. So, Lee-Ann I will be contacting you to order 2 containers, dry

one (Whole grains book comes with it, right??)and small one and a tamper and

spatulas. Really wanting to start to feel more my old self and I am sure that

inflammation from the way we eat in this country is taking it's tole on me. I'm

thinking if I am successful at this change, I may be able to free up a lot of

highly prized real estate in my kitchen now housing many many kitchen toys. Not

sure what I can do about my milk kefir though, really hate to give that up.

> >

> > Sure would be nice if Miss (waving at ) would sit herself down

and jot down some of here favorite staples to make and what little tricks she

has found to replace dairy and eggs and cheeze.

> > Wish I had all the knowledge of you all, but I do believe strongly that our

meat based, carbohydrate highly processed fake food is killing us. So, given

that belief, it's time for me to make the changes I need to make! (Long Live the

VM)

> > Carol K

> >

> >

>