Re: My Experience with Dr. Huang

June 16, 2004

I don't think that anyone was attacking Dr Huang, and I think

that patients have the right to understand and know what others have

been through. My Dr has been the one that was under attack recently

too, because of her prices, so now I think LM has every right to tell

her story. I agree that it does not need to turn into a battlefield

and so far I dont' see where it has. I do think that we need to focus

on supporting the victim here.

, " JOSEPH PALANCA " <juliejp61@m...>

wrote:

>

June 16, 2004

Yes, I have two women who have horror stories about being botched by Dr.

Feng. I have chosen not to share the gruesome details because of this very

problem. We need to try to be positive and not be out there trying to one

up each other over our doctors.

Lynda

At 09:40 AM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

>I agree Lynda.I thought we were over this about two weeks ago, when Dr

>Huang was the " new hot " doctor under attack. Because this goes in

>cycles.To see it come up again, is tiresome.

>

> For the group as a WHOLE-We all have to remember girls, how this may be

> read by our new comers. How sad it would be if it negativly affected the

> one vital decision of a very sick implanted woman, on the verge of going

> through explant or not ever looking back. I know, I was there. We all

> have been. It could be so discouraging to that girl that has come to

> this site, searching for important answers -only to be frightened off by

> all these terrible stories mentioned about the very doctors we recommend.

> Perhaps, never going through with explant, because of what she has read

> about Haung, Kolb, others and yes, even Feng. She may choose at such a

> fragile time, to opt out of explant, out of fear. Because if she cant

> trust the best, most recommended plastic surgeons out there, who will

> she? Her friends, doctors and her current that PS that tells her she is

> not ill from them?

>

>On the other hand, we have to tell the truths in all this. Messy or not.

>I'm not saying it is wrong that MArie told her story, she has every

>right. And needs to, perhaps for her own healing. It may very helpful to

>someone who has also been through the tramatic botching she has been

>through. So I think we have to be careful on how we go about this.

>

>This is my opinion on this, after some prayer. Telling your experience is

>a given right, bad or good-but be careful with all the additional posts

>everyone. Not to let it carry on too long. I feel for Marie on this,

>it is a terrible thing she went through, I couldnt imagine. And I pray and

>hope Dr Feng or another great PS, can fix what was wrongly done to her. l

>And then we can read on that great experince.

>

>So lets achknowlege it, and never forget it, email her with our support,

>and then leave it there. Lets not drag it out with comments and bickering,

>as has happened in the past. This is her experience, not an open battle field.

>

> Love julie

>

> >From: Lynda <coss@...> >Reply-To:

> >To:

> >Subject: Re: Re: My

> Experience with Dr. Huang >Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:02:42 -0600 > >Dr.

> Huang is in an office by herself, and she is a wonderful doctor. I >have

> heard the same horror stories about all the doctors we send women

> to, >including a few doozies about Dr. Feng. There is always room

> for >errors. No doctor will be perfect all the time. I have spoken

> with >thousands of women and I hear the horror stories, the botched

> surgeries, >etc. And yes, some of them are from our favorite docs. > >We

> do not help our cause by lambasting our docs. That is why you do

> not >hear me repeating the stories I have heard. I think the gossip is

> hurting >our cause. > >Now, if you all are through bashing Dr.

> Huang!???!!! > >Lynda > > > >At 10:51 PM 6/15/2004, you wrote: > >Dear

> LM, Wow, what a traumatic experience. Now even women doctors. What > >a

> sad story that was. I really feel for you. I hope you will

> find > >someone to be good to you? I will be going to dr. feng. Wonder if

> she > >could help you? I hope you didnot have to pay much out of pocket

> for > >that. what a miserable lot she has herself involved with. Lies on

> top > >of lies. what terrible people. Love and support,

> > > > >Lynda <coss@...> wrote: > >I am sure it was

> mentioned as one option, and you know how we react to > >implant

> stuff. > > > >I cannot fathom a lot of stuff that comes from doctors, and

> they all do > >it. Sometimes it just makes me shake my

> head. > > > >Lynda > > > > > >At 06:38 PM 6/15/2004, you

> wrote: > > >Thanks for sharing your experience with Dr. Huang.

> I > > >have known several women who have been explanted by > > >her, and

> all with good results, but I do think it is > > >important that we all

> have an opportunity to voice our > > >opinions and the facts as they

> occurred in our > > >individual experiences. > > > > > >I can't fathom

> Huang suggesting implants again to you > > >after all you have been

> through! That would just > > >about kill any positive thoughts that may

> have been > > >struggling to survive at that point. > > > > > >I'm so

> sorry that you went through that. Thanks again > > >for

> sharing. > > >Patty > > > > > >--- Jane Doe wrote: > > > > Hi

> All: > > > > I just thought it was time to get this off my chest. > > > >

> I received a couple of inquiries about my experience > > > > with Dr.

> Huang, so this is my time to respond and > > > > share with you all my

> experience. With that being > > > & g

>

June 16, 2004

, Exactly. Didnt I say that all in my post? Reread." A patient has every right to tell their story, and should." I also said that we should support her.

I was merely trying to post something helpful for all of us to think about in handling this ever hot situation, before it becomes a battleground again. Im not responding to this anymore, I made my post.

>From: "naturalbeauty38" <naturalbeauty38@...> >Reply- > >Subject: Re: My Experience with Dr. Huang >Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:55:04 -0000 > > I don't think that anyone was attacking Dr Huang, and I think >that patients have the right to understand and know what others have >been through. My Dr has been the one that was under attack recently >too, because of her prices, so now I think LM has every right to tell >her story. I agree that it does not need to turn into a battlefield >and so far I dont' see where it has. I do think that we need to focus >on supporting the victim here. > > > > > > > , "JOSEPH PALANCA" <juliejp61@m...> >wrote: > > > > > >

June 16, 2004

Maybe you should share the other 'bad' stories on other plastic surgeons. IF there are multiple stories -- but not if there are one or two......

June 16, 2004

> The recommendations for the doctors that have been

> controversial on our group should be made privately by

> all members.

> I believe I have pointed out who those were in my

> previous post.

> Patty

Is this a new rule? If so, it's a very unfair rule. Who decides

which doctors fall into the " controversial " group?

This is past the point of obsurd!

Jade

June 16, 2004

Totally agree, since they are all controversial.

Lynda

At 02:40 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

>

> > The recommendations for the doctors that have been

> > controversial on our group should be made privately by

> > all members.

> > I believe I have pointed out who those were in my

> > previous post.

> > Patty

>

>Is this a new rule? If so, it's a very unfair rule. Who decides

>which doctors fall into the " controversial " group?

>

>This is past the point of obsurd!

>

>Jade

>

June 16, 2004

Jade it is not obsurd and you don't happen to understand that Patty

was threatened with a lawsuit by one Dr if she ever mentioned her

name again, so you need to be careful when saying something is absurd

that you don't know anything about. We need to be careful because

these Dr's don't necesarily care about us. This group is for support

and for the women who need it to feel safe and not to feel they

cannot talk about their implant and explant experience good or bad.

However, when certain individuals continue to start arguments and

continue to put a Dr over individuals who have had bad experiences

with these Dr's then it is important that it be taken off the group,

for the safety and sanctitiy of the group as a whole. We are here to

support members, not necesarily Dr's.

Besides no one told you that you could not talk about your Dr.

Please try to understand having been here a short time that many many

things have gone down on this site regarding this subject and Patty

has reasons for asking people to keep this stuff of the site.

In , " jadebreaks " <jadebreaks@u...>

wrote:

> --- In , ~*Patty*~ <faussettdp@y...>

wrote:

> > The recommendations for the doctors that have been

> > controversial on our group should be made privately by

> > all members.

> > I believe I have pointed out who those were in my

> > previous post.

> > Patty

>

> Is this a new rule? If so, it's a very unfair rule. Who decides

> which doctors fall into the " controversial " group?

>

> This is past the point of obsurd!

>

> Jade

June 16, 2004

Lynda,

No they are not all contraversial and the fact of the matter is that

had you just shown support for LM and not made such a big deal out of

supporting the Dr rather than the patient, there would be no issue

here period. NO ONE EVER SAID YOUR FAVORITE DR WAS A BUTCHER or that

she was not a good surgeon. LM was simply relating her experience

with her. That is what this site is for.

She never once said she was not a good surgeon, she simply told us

that she did not have a good experience there. If others want to post

their experience good or bad, with any Dr they may do so here,

however, due to threats of lawsuits anything relating to Dr Kolb is

very dangerous water for us to tread into. It is not a problem to

mention any other Dr as none of them have threatened to sue anyone

here.

However, just because one person has a bad or good experience does

not mean everyone will. It is that person who had a bad experiences

right to share it.

If you have a bad experience with a Dr Lynda your more than welcome

to share it. However, if it is a second hand story, it really is not

right to speak for others. If one has a complaint then one should be

willing to speak for themselves.

I think enough time and energy has been completely wasted on this

issue and I am sorry that it had to be once again brought up.

this site is really about healing, about getting well and not so much

about pitching Dr's. We do make recomendations all the time, mostly I

have taken these off the site, but I will continue to recomend my Dr

as I am speaking of MY experience with her, and not in a second hand

way, I am not speaking from someone else's point of view but my own.

Unfortunately again, because of threats we are really unable to

discuss much about one Dr.

that is the way it is.

can we move on now please?

In , Lynda <coss@p...> wrote:

> Totally agree, since they are all controversial.

>

> Lynda

>

> At 02:40 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

> >--- In , ~*Patty*~ <faussettdp@y...>

wrote:

> > > The recommendations for the doctors that have been

> > > controversial on our group should be made privately by

> > > all members.

> > > I believe I have pointed out who those were in my

> > > previous post.

> > > Patty

> >

> >Is this a new rule? If so, it's a very unfair rule. Who decides

> >which doctors fall into the " controversial " group?

> >

> >This is past the point of obsurd!

> >

> >Jade

> >

June 16, 2004

I can see that you just want to keep this going, so I will say it again.

Huang is an excellent surgeon, operated on my daughter, and I have

had thousands of women I referred to her without one negative

complaint. Everyone can have a bad day, and some things can be misinterpreted.

Everyone is entitled to his/her experience, but that does not make this

doctor controversial. I could tell you some hair-raising stories about

other doctors, including Dr. Feng. I won't, as it would not help our cause.

I have no problem with someone sharing their experience, but when they have

to bring up something negative every time I recommend someone, that is not

just sharing an experience.

Can we just quit with the doctors not. IT IS NOT HELPING OUR CAUSE, AND WE

HAVE PRECIOUS LITTLE EXTRA ENERGY.

End of story.

Lynda

At 03:41 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

>Lynda,

>No they are not all contraversial and the fact of the matter is that

>had you just shown support for LM and not made such a big deal out of

>supporting the Dr rather than the patient, there would be no issue

>here period. NO ONE EVER SAID YOUR FAVORITE DR WAS A BUTCHER or that

>she was not a good surgeon. LM was simply relating her experience

>with her. That is what this site is for.

>She never once said she was not a good surgeon, she simply told us

>that she did not have a good experience there. If others want to post

>their experience good or bad, with any Dr they may do so here,

>however, due to threats of lawsuits anything relating to Dr Kolb is

>very dangerous water for us to tread into. It is not a problem to

>mention any other Dr as none of them have threatened to sue anyone

>here.

>However, just because one person has a bad or good experience does

>not mean everyone will. It is that person who had a bad experiences

>right to share it.

>If you have a bad experience with a Dr Lynda your more than welcome

>to share it. However, if it is a second hand story, it really is not

>right to speak for others. If one has a complaint then one should be

>willing to speak for themselves.

>I think enough time and energy has been completely wasted on this

>issue and I am sorry that it had to be once again brought up.

>this site is really about healing, about getting well and not so much

>about pitching Dr's. We do make recomendations all the time, mostly I

>have taken these off the site, but I will continue to recomend my Dr

>as I am speaking of MY experience with her, and not in a second hand

>way, I am not speaking from someone else's point of view but my own.

>Unfortunately again, because of threats we are really unable to

>discuss much about one Dr.

>that is the way it is.

>can we move on now please?

>

>In , Lynda <coss@p...> wrote:

> > Totally agree, since they are all controversial.

> >

> > Lynda

> >

> > At 02:40 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

> > >--- In , ~*Patty*~ <faussettdp@y...>

>wrote:

> > > > The recommendations for the doctors that have been

> > > > controversial on our group should be made privately by

> > > > all members.

> > > > I believe I have pointed out who those were in my

> > > > previous post.

> > > > Patty

> > >

> > >Is this a new rule? If so, it's a very unfair rule. Who decides

> > >which doctors fall into the " controversial " group?

> > >

> > >This is past the point of obsurd!

> > >

> > >Jade

> > >

June 16, 2004

Fine Lynda no matter how many times I try to end this you have to

have the last word don't you. Go ahead and say something after me one

more time, that way yours will be the last word.

There is no way to end this unless it is you who ends it is there?

I am done

In , Lynda <coss@p...> wrote:

> I can see that you just want to keep this going, so I will say it

again.

>

> Huang is an excellent surgeon, operated on my daughter, and I

have

> had thousands of women I referred to her without one negative

> complaint. Everyone can have a bad day, and some things can be

misinterpreted.

>

> Everyone is entitled to his/her experience, but that does not make

this

> doctor controversial. I could tell you some hair-raising stories

about

> other doctors, including Dr. Feng. I won't, as it would not help

our cause.

>

> I have no problem with someone sharing their experience, but when

they have

> to bring up something negative every time I recommend someone, that

is not

> just sharing an experience.

>

> Can we just quit with the doctors not. IT IS NOT HELPING OUR

CAUSE, AND WE

> HAVE PRECIOUS LITTLE EXTRA ENERGY.

>

> End of story.

>

> Lynda

>

> At 03:41 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

> >Lynda,

> >No they are not all contraversial and the fact of the matter is

that

> >had you just shown support for LM and not made such a big deal out

of

> >supporting the Dr rather than the patient, there would be no issue

> >here period. NO ONE EVER SAID YOUR FAVORITE DR WAS A BUTCHER or

that

> >she was not a good surgeon. LM was simply relating her experience

> >with her. That is what this site is for.

> >She never once said she was not a good surgeon, she simply told us

> >that she did not have a good experience there. If others want to

post

> >their experience good or bad, with any Dr they may do so here,

> >however, due to threats of lawsuits anything relating to Dr Kolb is

> >very dangerous water for us to tread into. It is not a problem to

> >mention any other Dr as none of them have threatened to sue anyone

> >here.

> >However, just because one person has a bad or good experience does

> >not mean everyone will. It is that person who had a bad experiences

> >right to share it.

> >If you have a bad experience with a Dr Lynda your more than welcome

> >to share it. However, if it is a second hand story, it really is

not

> >right to speak for others. If one has a complaint then one should

be

> >willing to speak for themselves.

> >I think enough time and energy has been completely wasted on this

> >issue and I am sorry that it had to be once again brought up.

> >this site is really about healing, about getting well and not so

much

> >about pitching Dr's. We do make recomendations all the time,

mostly I

> >have taken these off the site, but I will continue to recomend my

Dr

> >as I am speaking of MY experience with her, and not in a second

hand

> >way, I am not speaking from someone else's point of view but my

own.

> >Unfortunately again, because of threats we are really unable to

> >discuss much about one Dr.

> >that is the way it is.

> >can we move on now please?

> >

> >In , Lynda <coss@p...> wrote:

> > > Totally agree, since they are all controversial.

> > >

> > > Lynda

> > >

> > > At 02:40 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

> > > >--- In , ~*Patty*~

<faussettdp@y...>

> >wrote:

> > > > > The recommendations for the doctors that have been

> > > > > controversial on our group should be made privately by

> > > > > all members.

> > > > > I believe I have pointed out who those were in my

> > > > > previous post.

> > > > > Patty

> > > >

> > > >Is this a new rule? If so, it's a very unfair rule. Who

decides

> > > >which doctors fall into the " controversial " group?

> > > >

> > > >This is past the point of obsurd!

> > > >

> > > >Jade

> > > >

June 16, 2004

Get the truths straight- the doctor wasnt going to "sue" if her name was" mentioned", it was if her work and professional name kept on being slandered by a certain few. Which by the way, wasnt being done by a patient of hers,that was unhappy. If I remember correctly,you were never her patient . All the controversy and stirr up was based on mere opinions. Not facts from patients.

>From: "naturalbeauty38" <naturalbeauty38@...> >Reply- > >Subject: Re: My Experience with Dr. Huang >Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:33:45 -0000 > >Jade it is not obsurd and you don't happen to understand that Patty >was threatened with a lawsuit by one Dr if she ever mentioned her >name again, so you need to be careful when saying something is absurd >that you don't know anything about. We need to be careful because >these Dr's don't necesarily care about us. This group is for support >and for the women who need it to feel safe and not to feel they >cannot talk about their implant and explant experience good or bad. >However, when certain individuals continue to start arguments and >continue to put a Dr over individuals who have had bad experiences >with these Dr's then it is important that it be taken off the group, >for the safety and sanctitiy of the group as a whole. We are here to >support members, not necesarily Dr's. >Besides no one told you that you could not talk about your Dr. >Please try to understand having been here a short time that many many >things have gone down on this site regarding this subject and Patty >has reasons for asking people to keep this stuff of the site. > > > > > > > > > >In , "jadebreaks" <jadebreaks@u...> >wrote: > > --- In , ~*Patty*~ <faussettdp@y...> >wrote: > > > The recommendations for the doctors that have been > > > controversial on our group should be made privately by > > > all members. > > > I believe I have pointed out who those were in my > > > previous post. > > > Patty > > > > Is this a new rule? If so, it's a very unfair rule. Who decides > > which doctors fall into the "controversial" group? > > > > This is past the point of obsurd! > > > > Jade > > > >

June 16, 2004

:

I'm butting in here.......

Don't blame for that which was said about Dr. Kolb. I got e-mails from an anonymous source who wrote stuff about Kolb and that is how I suspect things started.I can vouch for the fact when I asked about these rumors about Kolb, had stated to me they were unsubstantiated rumors with no proof, she told me your result with Kolb was good.Yes, rumors floated about but they were not driven by any SS members, but outsiders lurking in. JOSEPH PALAN:

CA <juliejp61@...> wrote:

Get the truths straight- the doctor wasnt going to "sue" if her name was" mentioned", it was if her work and professional name kept on being slandered by a certain few. Which by the way, wasnt being done by a patient of hers,that was unhappy. If I remember correctly,you were never her patient . All the controversy and stirr up was based on mere opinions. Not facts from patients.

>From: "naturalbeauty38" <naturalbeauty38@...> >Reply- > >Subject: Re: My Experience with Dr. Huang >Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:33:45 -0000 > >Jade it is not obsurd and you don't happen to understand that Patty >was threatened with a lawsuit by one Dr if she ever mentioned her >name again, so you need to be careful when saying something is absurd >that you don't know anything about. We need to be careful because >these Dr's don't necesarily care about us. This group is for support >and for the women who need it to feel safe and not to feel they >cannot talk about their implant and explant experience good or bad. >However, when certain individuals continue to start arguments and >continue to put a Dr over individuals who have had bad experiences

>with these Dr's then it is important that it be taken off the group, >for the safety and sanctitiy of the group as a whole. We are here to >support members, not necesarily Dr's. >Besides no one told you that you could not talk about your Dr. >Please try to understand having been here a short time that many many >things have gone down on this site regarding this subject and Patty >has reasons for asking people to keep this stuff of the site. > > > > > > > > > >In , "jadebreaks" <jadebreaks@u...> >wrote: > > --- In , ~*Patty*~ <faussettdp@y...> >wrote: > > > The recommendations for the doctors that have been > > > controversial on our group should be made privately by > > > all members. > > > I believe I have pointed out who those were in my > > > previous post. > > > Patty > > > >

Is this a new rule? If so, it's a very unfair rule. Who decides > > which doctors fall into the "controversial" group? > > > > This is past the point of obsurd! > > > > Jade > > > >

June 16, 2004

Amen!

Lynda

At 04:13 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

>Get the truths straight- the doctor wasnt going to " sue " if her name was "

>mentioned " , it was if her work and professional name kept on being

>slandered by a certain few. Which by the way, wasnt being done by a

>patient of hers,that was unhappy. If I remember correctly,you were never

>her patient . All the controversy and stirr up was based on mere opinions.

>Not facts from patients.

>

> >From: " naturalbeauty38 " <naturalbeauty38@...> >Reply-To:

> >To:

> >Subject: Re: My Experience

> with Dr. Huang >Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:33:45 -0000 > >Jade it is not

> obsurd and you don't happen to understand that Patty >was threatened with

> a lawsuit by one Dr if she ever mentioned her >name again, so you need to

> be careful when saying something is absurd >that you don't know anything

> about. We need to be careful because >these Dr's don't necesarily care

> about us. This group is for support >and for the women who need it to

> feel safe and not to feel they >cannot talk about their implant and

> explant experience good or bad. >However, when certain individuals

> continue to start arguments and >continue to put a Dr over individuals

> who have had bad experiences >with these Dr's then it is important that

> it be taken off the group, >for the safety and sanctitiy of the group as

> a whole. We are here to >support members, not necesarily Dr's. >Besides

> no one told you that you could not talk about your Dr. >Please try to

> understand having been here a short time that many many >things have gone

> down on this site regarding this subject and Patty >has reasons for

> asking people to keep this stuff of the site. > > > > > > > > > >In

> , " jadebreaks " <jadebreaks@u...> >wrote: > >

> --- In , ~*Patty*~

> <faussettdp@y...> >wrote: > > > The recommendations for the doctors that

> have been > > > controversial on our group should be made privately

> by > > > all members. > > > I believe I have pointed out who those were

> in my > > > previous post. > > > Patty > > > > Is this a new rule? If so,

> it's a very unfair rule. Who decides > > which doctors fall into the

> " controversial " group? > > > > This is past the point of obsurd! > > > >

> Jade > > > >

June 17, 2004

> Jade it is not obsurd and you don't happen to understand that Patty

> was threatened with a lawsuit by one Dr if she ever mentioned her

> name again, so you need to be careful when saying something is

absurd

> that you don't know anything about.

Please don't say that I don't understand! That is often the argument

people use when they have no argument! If Patty was threatened with

a lawsuit then she probably should not discuss that doctor here. But

why censor other people and say that certain doctors can be discussed

and certain doctors can't be? It is NOT fair to say that because

someone deems a certain doctor controversial that doctor can no

longer be discussed on this forum! That gets very dangerous because

it gives certain people the right to censorship and that kind of

power can easily and quickly be abused! Then this group will

eventually become a clique!

People DO need to be very careful what they say when discussing

doctors. This is NOT directed at anyone but the fact of life is that

things get distorted with the telling. We should stick to the facts.

> We need to be careful because

> these Dr's don't necesarily care about us.

Which doctors? How do you know if they care about us or not? I KNOW

some doctors who care very deeply about their fellow (wo)man. The

problem here is that we should stick to the facts and try to leave

conjecture and emotion out of it as much as possible. It's difficult

to leave emotion out when discussing your own personal experience but

when discussing doctors we need to try! Their reputations are on the

line.

> This group is for support

> and for the women who need it to feel safe and not to feel they

> cannot talk about their implant and explant experience good or bad.

It also needs to feel safe for them to recommend THEIR doctors and

discuss a variety of different procedures. INFORMATION IS POWER!

> However, when certain individuals continue to start arguments and

> continue to put a Dr over individuals who have had bad experiences

> with these Dr's then it is important that it be taken off the

group,

> for the safety and sanctitiy of the group as a whole.

There is almost NO doctor in existance that someone hasn't had a bad

experience with. Doctors are humans who make mistakes. We can talk

all day about our bad experiences but it is only one side of the

story. Other people who have had good experiences need to tell their

side too to balance things out.

> We are here to

> support members, not necesarily Dr's.

One way to support members it to give them information and as many

options as possible!

> Besides no one told you that you could not talk about your Dr.

This should not get down to MY DOCTOR is better than YOUR DOCTOR.

Everyone should be allowed to share their experiences about whatever

doctor.

> Please try to understand having been here a short time

Please try to understand that I have been lurking on this forum for

quite a while now and I have watched and listened and from my point

of view things here are often one sided!

I am tryly sorry that we (you and I)seem to have such a difficult

time communicating! It does seem that you misinterpret and are at

odds with most of what I say.

Jade

June 17, 2004

Jade,

This group already seems like a clique to me, and certain ones are

favored. It is not surprising. That happens everywhere.

I am certainly on the outside of this clique, Thank God, as I think it is

counter-productive.

But it will go on, and the same ones will come up with the same

discussions, and the same ones will be criticized. I can see the

pattern. I can also see that there is not the recognition of that pattern

by many.

Being a social worker (MSW) probably helps me recognize many things, and

this is one of them.

So, that is how it is, and we just probably have to accept it for what it is.

Lynda

At 05:44 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

>

> > Jade it is not obsurd and you don't happen to understand that Patty

> > was threatened with a lawsuit by one Dr if she ever mentioned her

> > name again, so you need to be careful when saying something is

>absurd

> > that you don't know anything about.

>

>Please don't say that I don't understand! That is often the argument

>people use when they have no argument! If Patty was threatened with

>a lawsuit then she probably should not discuss that doctor here. But

>why censor other people and say that certain doctors can be discussed

>and certain doctors can't be? It is NOT fair to say that because

>someone deems a certain doctor controversial that doctor can no

>longer be discussed on this forum! That gets very dangerous because

>it gives certain people the right to censorship and that kind of

>power can easily and quickly be abused! Then this group will

>eventually become a clique!

>

>People DO need to be very careful what they say when discussing

>doctors. This is NOT directed at anyone but the fact of life is that

>things get distorted with the telling. We should stick to the facts.

>

> > We need to be careful because

> > these Dr's don't necesarily care about us.

>

>Which doctors? How do you know if they care about us or not? I KNOW

>some doctors who care very deeply about their fellow (wo)man. The

>problem here is that we should stick to the facts and try to leave

>conjecture and emotion out of it as much as possible. It's difficult

>to leave emotion out when discussing your own personal experience but

>when discussing doctors we need to try! Their reputations are on the

>line.

>

> > This group is for support

> > and for the women who need it to feel safe and not to feel they

> > cannot talk about their implant and explant experience good or bad.

>

>It also needs to feel safe for them to recommend THEIR doctors and

>discuss a variety of different procedures. INFORMATION IS POWER!

>

> > However, when certain individuals continue to start arguments and

> > continue to put a Dr over individuals who have had bad experiences

> > with these Dr's then it is important that it be taken off the

>group,

> > for the safety and sanctitiy of the group as a whole.

>

>There is almost NO doctor in existance that someone hasn't had a bad

>experience with. Doctors are humans who make mistakes. We can talk

>all day about our bad experiences but it is only one side of the

>story. Other people who have had good experiences need to tell their

>side too to balance things out.

>

> > We are here to

> > support members, not necesarily Dr's.

>

>One way to support members it to give them information and as many

>options as possible!

>

> > Besides no one told you that you could not talk about your Dr.

>

>This should not get down to MY DOCTOR is better than YOUR DOCTOR.

>Everyone should be allowed to share their experiences about whatever

>doctor.

>

> > Please try to understand having been here a short time

>

>Please try to understand that I have been lurking on this forum for

>quite a while now and I have watched and listened and from my point

>of view things here are often one sided!

>

>I am tryly sorry that we (you and I)seem to have such a difficult

>time communicating! It does seem that you misinterpret and are at

>odds with most of what I say.

>

>Jade

>

June 17, 2004

> Jade,

>

> This group already seems like a clique to me,

Lynda, I don't think you have to be a social worker or a rocket

scientist to recognize that!

> I am certainly on the outside of this clique,

Apparently, I too am on the outside.

> So, that is how it is, and we just probably have to accept it for

what it is.

I don't really care. I can accept that " they " don't like me and

probably never will and continue to offer information to women who

seek that information. There is more than one doctor in this world

who can do explant surgery and lifts. In fact, there are quite a few

and MY DOCTOR is NOT the only one. If a women lives in Washington or

near there, why not tell her that Dr. Melvin does explant surgery in

Washington and she can see his work at www.explantation.com? If a

woman lives in Colorado, give her a doctor there as well as others.

A desperate woman in East Egypt doesn't need to be led to believe

that ONE and ONLY ONE doctor is qualified to do the surgery!

Here is my bottom line: I think we (collectively) need to quit being

so emotional about the implant issue or we will NEVER get anywhere.

The fact is that the medical world is ruled by men who want facts

(and that means facts that aren't twisted to an individual purpose)

and only facts. Hence my comment about heart palpitations and the

FACT that they are common in women who are reaching menopause. I was

not trying to dispute any claim that implants can cause heart

palpitations. I never said that and I DO believe that implants CAN

cause palpitations. BUT if you are over 35 your heart palps MAY not

be caused by implants. It's important to try to be concise or we

will just continue to be discounted.

Anyway, this is all way too much effort. I think we should both just

carry on. There are bound to be others who wonder.

Jade

June 17, 2004

Jade,

All I can say is: Amen, again.

Lynda

At 06:20 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

>

> > Jade,

> >

> > This group already seems like a clique to me,

>

>Lynda, I don't think you have to be a social worker or a rocket

>scientist to recognize that!

>

> > I am certainly on the outside of this clique,

>

>Apparently, I too am on the outside.

>

> > So, that is how it is, and we just probably have to accept it for

>what it is.

>

>I don't really care. I can accept that " they " don't like me and

>probably never will and continue to offer information to women who

>seek that information. There is more than one doctor in this world

>who can do explant surgery and lifts. In fact, there are quite a few

>and MY DOCTOR is NOT the only one. If a women lives in Washington or

>near there, why not tell her that Dr. Melvin does explant surgery in

>Washington and she can see his work at www.explantation.com? If a

>woman lives in Colorado, give her a doctor there as well as others.

>A desperate woman in East Egypt doesn't need to be led to believe

>that ONE and ONLY ONE doctor is qualified to do the surgery!

>

>Here is my bottom line: I think we (collectively) need to quit being

>so emotional about the implant issue or we will NEVER get anywhere.

>The fact is that the medical world is ruled by men who want facts

>(and that means facts that aren't twisted to an individual purpose)

>and only facts. Hence my comment about heart palpitations and the

>FACT that they are common in women who are reaching menopause. I was

>not trying to dispute any claim that implants can cause heart

>palpitations. I never said that and I DO believe that implants CAN

>cause palpitations. BUT if you are over 35 your heart palps MAY not

>be caused by implants. It's important to try to be concise or we

>will just continue to be discounted.

>

>Anyway, this is all way too much effort. I think we should both just

>carry on. There are bound to be others who wonder.

>

>Jade

>

June 17, 2004

No, not a good idea. It would start another whole round of problems, and

there are horror stories for every doctor on our list, count on it. No one

is perfect.

Lynda

At 04:16 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

>Maybe you should share the other 'bad' stories on other plastic

>surgeons. IF there are multiple stories -- but not if there are one or

>two......

>

June 17, 2004

> No, not a good idea. It would start another whole round of

problems, and

> there are horror stories for every doctor on our list, count on

it. No one

> is perfect.

>

> Lynda

Yes, every doctor has horror stories and often it's not even the

doctor's fault. Everyone's body responds differently to surgery and

scaring, etc. When I went from my consultation with Dr. Melmed, he

showed me pictures of his best outcomes AND pictures of his worst

outcomes. I don't think many doctors do that but they should.

Jade

June 17, 2004

Yes, that would probably be honest, at least. I have seen a few of the bad

outcomes, and some are very bad.

Lynda

At 08:00 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

>

> > No, not a good idea. It would start another whole round of

>problems, and

> > there are horror stories for every doctor on our list, count on

>it. No one

> > is perfect.

> >

> > Lynda

>

>Yes, every doctor has horror stories and often it's not even the

>doctor's fault. Everyone's body responds differently to surgery and

>scaring, etc. When I went from my consultation with Dr. Melmed, he

>showed me pictures of his best outcomes AND pictures of his worst

>outcomes. I don't think many doctors do that but they should.

>

>Jade

>

June 17, 2004

Yes, best to just let it ride, I guess. I don't think it is helping to try

to make the point.

Lynda

At 09:59 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

>I agree with both of you, and have tried in the last two years to get the

>same point across. That's why for the most part, I let it go on without

>comments. Unless, Im brave and try to say something neutral, when it comes

>to this. Hang in there. Love

> Re: Re: My Experience with Dr. Huang

>

>Jade,

>

>This group already seems like a clique to me, and certain ones are

>favored. It is not surprising. That happens everywhere.

>

>I am certainly on the outside of this clique, Thank God, as I think it is

>counter-productive.

>

>But it will go on, and the same ones will come up with the same

>discussions, and the same ones will be criticized. I can see the

>pattern. I can also see that there is not the recognition of that pattern

>by many.

>

>Being a social worker (MSW) probably helps me recognize many things, and

>this is one of them.

>

>So, that is how it is, and we just probably have to accept it for what it is.

>

>Lynda

>

>At 05:44 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

> >

> > > Jade it is not obsurd and you don't happen to understand that Patty

> > > was threatened with a lawsuit by one Dr if she ever mentioned her

> > > name again, so you need to be careful when saying something is

> >absurd

> > > that you don't know anything about.

> >

> >Please don't say that I don't understand! That is often the argument

> >people use when they have no argument! If Patty was threatened with

> >a lawsuit then she probably should not discuss that doctor here. But

> >why censor other people and say that certain doctors can be discussed

> >and certain doctors can't be? It is NOT fair to say that because

> >someone deems a certain doctor controversial that doctor can no

> >longer be discussed on this forum! That gets very dangerous because

> >it gives certain people the right to censorship and that kind of

> >power can easily and quickly be abused! Then this group will

> >eventually become a clique!

> >

> >People DO need to be very careful what they say when discussing

> >doctors. This is NOT directed at anyone but the fact of life is that

> >things get distorted with the telling. We should stick to the facts.

> >

> > > We need to be careful because

> > > these Dr's don't necesarily care about us.

> >

> >Which doctors? How do you know if they care about us or not? I KNOW

> >some doctors who care very deeply about their fellow (wo)man. The

> >problem here is that we should stick to the facts and try to leave

> >conjecture and emotion out of it as much as possible. It's difficult

> >to leave emotion out when discussing your own personal experience but

> >when discussing doctors we need to try! Their reputations are on the

> >line.

> >

> > > This group is for support

> > > and for the women who need it to feel safe and not to feel they

> > > cannot talk about their implant and explant experience good or bad.

> >

> >It also needs to feel safe for them to recommend THEIR doctors and

> >discuss a variety of different procedures. INFORMATION IS POWER!

> >

> > > However, when certain individuals continue to start arguments and

> > > continue to put a Dr over individuals who have had bad experiences

> > > with these Dr's then it is important that it be taken off the

> >group,

> > > for the safety and sanctitiy of the group as a whole.

> >

> >There is almost NO doctor in existance that someone hasn't had a bad

> >experience with. Doctors are humans who make mistakes. We can talk

> >all day about our bad experiences but it is only one side of the

> >story. Other people who have had good experiences need to tell their

> >side too to balance things out.

> >

> > > We are here to

> > > support members, not necesarily Dr's.

> >

> >One way to support members it to give them information and as many

> >options as possible!

> >

> > > Besides no one told you that you could not talk about your Dr.

> >

> >This should not get down to MY DOCTOR is better than YOUR DOCTOR.

> >Everyone should be allowed to share their experiences about whatever

> >doctor.

> >

> > > Please try to understand having been here a short time

> >

> >Please try to understand that I have been lurking on this forum for

> >quite a while now and I have watched and listened and from my point

> >of view things here are often one sided!

> >

> >I am tryly sorry that we (you and I)seem to have such a difficult

> >time communicating! It does seem that you misinterpret and are at

> >odds with most of what I say.

> >

> >Jade

> >

June 17, 2004

I agree with both of you, and have tried in the last two years to get the same point across. That’s why for the most part, I let it go on without comments. Unless, Im brave and try to say something neutral, when it comes to this. Hang in there. Love

Re: Re: My Experience with Dr. Huang

Jade,This group already seems like a clique to me, and certain ones are favored. It is not surprising. That happens everywhere.I am certainly on the outside of this clique, Thank God, as I think it is counter-productive.But it will go on, and the same ones will come up with the same discussions, and the same ones will be criticized. I can see the pattern. I can also see that there is not the recognition of that pattern by many.Being a social worker (MSW) probably helps me recognize many things, and this is one of them.So, that is how it is, and we just probably have to accept it for what it is.LyndaAt 05:44 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:>> > Jade it is not obsurd and you don't happen to understand that Patty> > was threatened with a lawsuit by one Dr if she ever mentioned her> > name again, so you need to be careful when saying something is>absurd> > that you don't know anything about.>>Please don't say that I don't understand! That is often the argument>people use when they have no argument! If Patty was threatened with>a lawsuit then she probably should not discuss that doctor here. But>why censor other people and say that certain doctors can be discussed>and certain doctors can't be? It is NOT fair to say that because>someone deems a certain doctor controversial that doctor can no>longer be discussed on this forum! That gets very dangerous because>it gives certain people the right to censorship and that kind of>power can easily and quickly be abused! Then this group will>eventually become a clique!>>People DO need to be very careful what they say when discussing>doctors. This is NOT directed at anyone but the fact of life is that>things get distorted with the telling. We should stick to the facts.>> > We need to be careful because> > these Dr's don't necesarily care about us.>>Which doctors? How do you know if they care about us or not? I KNOW>some doctors who care very deeply about their fellow (wo)man. The>problem here is that we should stick to the facts and try to leave>conjecture and emotion out of it as much as possible. It's difficult>to leave emotion out when discussing your own personal experience but>when discussing doctors we need to try! Their reputations are on the>line.>> > This group is for support> > and for the women who need it to feel safe and not to feel they> > cannot talk about their implant and explant experience good or bad.>>It also needs to feel safe for them to recommend THEIR doctors and>discuss a variety of different procedures. INFORMATION IS POWER!>> > However, when certain individuals continue to start arguments and> > continue to put a Dr over individuals who have had bad experiences> > with these Dr's then it is important that it be taken off the>group,> > for the safety and sanctitiy of the group as a whole.>>There is almost NO doctor in existance that someone hasn't had a bad>experience with. Doctors are humans who make mistakes. We can talk>all day about our bad experiences but it is only one side of the>story. Other people who have had good experiences need to tell their>side too to balance things out.>> > We are here to> > support members, not necesarily Dr's.>>One way to support members it to give them information and as many>options as possible!>> > Besides no one told you that you could not talk about your Dr.>>This should not get down to MY DOCTOR is better than YOUR DOCTOR.>Everyone should be allowed to share their experiences about whatever>doctor.>> > Please try to understand having been here a short time>>Please try to understand that I have been lurking on this forum for>quite a while now and I have watched and listened and from my point>of view things here are often one sided!>>I am tryly sorry that we (you and I)seem to have such a difficult>time communicating! It does seem that you misinterpret and are at>odds with most of what I say.>>Jade>>>>>

June 17, 2004

I would hope that to be the case. And I didn’t say only . But I happened to be here for a long time and watch her, and others (you should remember) argue every point ever made by Dr Kolb in her last months here. And myself when it pertained to her. I don’t care how it started. Really. Or what she told you, I am going by what she has said, what has been argued with me into the ground, what she has said to Dr Kolb herself, and what I have read. All the posts are all here.

And it doesn’t stop with Dr K. Now , and for a while its been Huang. So now, Huang cant be spoken about. I mean look at the big picture here.

It's Nothing new.

I'm not "blaming" for anything, but merely responding to her posts written by her. God, please don’t go there, with now she is the victim in all this.

I think this would be a great rule and would stop all the fighting! Only a patient with a bad experience with their PS, like yourself, has the right to speak on about negative experinces. Not others. Support can be given, but no bashing! To go on about it with your added opinion, like Haung is on a breast implant site,( wrong, I agree) or no -Dr Kolb puts them in, (they all do, hello!) is absurd. That way, no one would get hurt in this. We could share good and bad, and be free to do so. With no arguments. Ill tell you, if someone came forward with their bad story about Dr Kolb, I would support her, and not say one word otherwise. How sad not to have a good outcome. I don’t care by what PS, it is sad, and she needs support. Period. Who am I to say, my PS could never do a bad job? Shes only human, and can only do so much. Only that patient, went through that epxerience, not me. Who am I to say?

But on the flip side, when it comes to Dr Feng- wait a minute, there was a bad explant spoken about here about month ago- by one of her patients, and recommending her on this site didn’t come to a screeching halt. And, it was so hard to hear, it was even argued with the patient herself. That she handled it wrong, and needed to go back to Dr Feng to ask her to fix it. Surely, Dr Feng didn’t make a mistake! Heavens no! Please-they all make mistakes. perhaps some patients will never look like they want, and PS's arent perfect. I sure the hell am glad I didn’t go into the profession, let me tell you.

Re: My Experience with Dr. Huang >Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:33:45 -0000 > >Jade it is not obsurd and you don't happen to understand that Patty >was threatened with a lawsuit by one Dr if she ever mentioned her >name again, so you need to be careful when saying something is absurd >that you don't know anything about. We need to be careful because >these Dr's don't necesarily care about us. This group is for support >and for the women who need it to feel safe and not to feel they >cannot talk about their implant and explant experience good or bad. >However, when certain individuals continue to start arguments and >continue to put a Dr over individuals who have had bad experiences >with these Dr's then it is important that it be taken off the group, >for the safety and sanctitiy of the group as a whole. We are here to >support members, not necesarily Dr's. >Besides no one told you that you could not talk about your Dr. >Please try to understand having been here a short time that many many >things have gone down on this site regarding this subject and Patty >has reasons for asking people to keep this stuff of the site. > > > > > > > > > >In , "jadebreaks" <jadebreaks@u...> >wrote: > > --- In , ~*Patty*~ <faussettdp@y...> >wrote: > > > The recommendations for the doctors that have been > > > controversial on our group should be made privately by > > > all members. > > > I believe I have pointed out who those were in my > > > previous post. > > > Patty > > > > Is this a new rule? If so, it's a very unfair rule. Who decides > > which doctors fall into the "controversial" group? > > > > This is past the point of obsurd! > > > > Jade > > > >

June 17, 2004

Thank God someone out there got the point. Thank you! Thank you!

Lynda

At 10:35 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

>I would hope that to be the case. And I didn't say only . But I

>happened to be here for a long time and watch her, and others (you should

>remember) argue every point ever made by Dr Kolb in her last months here.

>And myself when it pertained to her. I don't care how it started. Really.

>Or what she told you, I am going by what she has said, what has been

>argued with me into the ground, what she has said to Dr Kolb herself, and

>what I have read. All the posts are all here.

>

> And it doesn't stop with Dr K. Now , and for a while its been Huang. So

> now, Huang cant be spoken about. I mean look at the big picture here.

>It's Nothing new.

>I'm not " blaming " for anything, but merely responding to her posts

>written by her. God, please don't go there, with now she is the victim in

>all this.

>I think this would be a great rule and would stop all the fighting! Only a

>patient with a bad experience with their PS, like yourself, has the right

>to speak on about negative experinces. Not others. Support can be given,

>but no bashing! To go on about it with your added opinion, like Haung is

>on a breast implant site,( wrong, I agree) or no -Dr Kolb puts them in,

>(they all do, hello!) is absurd. That way, no one would get hurt in this.

>We could share good and bad, and be free to do so. With no arguments. Ill

>tell you, if someone came forward with their bad story about Dr Kolb, I

>would support her, and not say one word otherwise. How sad not to have a

>good outcome. I don't care by what PS, it is sad, and she needs support.

>Period. Who am I to say, my PS could never do a bad job? Shes only human,

>and can only do so much. Only that patient, went through that epxerience,

>not me. Who am I to say?

>But on the flip side, when it comes to Dr Feng- wait a minute, there was a

>bad explant spoken about here about month ago- by one of her

>patients, and recommending her on this site didn't come to a screeching

>halt. And, it was so hard to hear, it was even argued with the patient

>herself. That she handled it wrong, and needed to go back to Dr Feng to

>ask her to fix it. Surely, Dr Feng didn't make a mistake! Heavens no!

>Please-they all make mistakes. perhaps some patients will never look like

>they want, and PS's arent perfect. I sure the hell am glad I didn't go

>into the profession, let me tell you.

> Re: My Experience