New Member

Posted December 3, 2000 · December 3, 2000

In a message dated 12/3/00 6:05:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,

newwomen01@... writes:

<<

Hey !

Welcome to the group!

I plan on entering in 2001 as well!

Posted December 7, 2000 · December 7, 2000

Hey Marie!

This is ! Glad to see you here!

-

Orlando, Florida

(moderator)

Posted December 7, 2000 · December 7, 2000

Hi Marie,

It's me Kirk, remember we met this past spring in Scranton with Dr. Life.

Hope things are going well for you!

Posted December 31, 2000 · December 31, 2000

tmtw,

Reality is that getting well means making lifestyle & dietary changes,

but they aren't really difficult or obnoxious. It is also safe to say

that most any person who has multiple complaints & has lived an ordinary

lifestyle needs a kidney, liver & colon cleanse, as a rule of thumb.

Don't feel you have to do all of these things at once to succeed.

Include new things into your life one at a time, adding another every

few weeks to a month. Pretty soon you will be a lot better off.

I'd also get serious about juicing. I recommend the Green Life juicer. I

believe it is the best choice for most folks, best bang for the buck and

will even do wheatgrass. Don't pay more than about $350 for one. The

importance of getting raw fruits & vegetables in quantity can't be

overstressed. It is always better to eat the veggies themselves, in

their natural state. But, in reality few people will eat enough fruits &

vegetables -- the recommended 6 servings a day -- so a daily juice

supplies a lot of critical vitamins & minerals. We should eat everything

raw, so get as close to that as you can. My daily juice is made from 1

lb organic carrots, 1 stalk celery hearts, 3 delicious apples & a bunch

of kale.

If you can manage it, eat meats & fats raw. This is one of the most

important things that most folks miss. The body can't handle fats that

have been heated. The body needs it fats raw. The brain is mostly

lipids. You need the right raw fats daily. Eating 1/2 lb raw, unsalted

butter daily with unheated honey will cause an obese person to LOSE

weight! (Butter & honey stirred together is so much like the cream

filling in an oreo, it feels sinful!)

Bean sprouts are the easiest, cheapest, best way to get BALANCED amino

acids, so eat some every day.

The juice of a fresh lemon every day will help keep liver & kidneys

clean, and is very alkalinizing.

Apple cider & vinegar tastes great and does so much. Use Bragg brand

vinegar & Really Raw Honey brand honey.

Call 1-800-HERBDOC and order some cayenne tincture from Dr. Schulze.

Start taking it several times daily, as recommended on the bottle.

Make sure to take SBO's/intestinal bacteria/multidophilus -- whatever

name you use. Take a product with as many strains of lactobacilli as

possible. They maintain the proper Ph in the different areas of the GI

tract and produce many necessary chemicals used by our body.

Drink lots of water.... I mean really drink it, not just nod your head

when somebody says so. ;-)

These things apply to anyone who wants to be healthier and doesn't know

what to do. I do a lot of the above daily, and the rest frequently. When

I jumped from about 25% raw food to almost 100% my cleansing reactions

escalated also. Raw food is a natural detox program.

jim

The following is copied from a post Saul Pressman recently made about

diabetes:

Diabetes, in its most common form, is due to insufficient insulin

production by the pancreas and/or overweight which makes the

insulin not work as well in getting sugar into the cells.

Ozone helps in several ways. It increases insulin production by

optimizing pancreas function (all hormone production requires oxygen).

It cleans out toxins and debris which interfere with cellular

functioning.

And it increases the amount of oxygen delivered to the extremities,

which

is a problem in longterm diabetics.

Depending on symptoms, ozone can be applied transdermally with a funnel

on the skin of the abdomen over the pancreas, and for circulatory

problems,

by bagging a limb. For failing eyesight (actually a symptom caused by

injected

synthetic insulin), ozone applied through ear insufflation works well.

For diabetes:

- Gymnema sylvestre, a herb from India available at the health food

store.

- chromium + vanadium.

Best of Health!

Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh

URL: http://www.plasmafire.com

email: saul@...

tmtw587@... wrote:

>

> l just recently joined this list...l am not in the kind of health l want to

> be in and am

> searching for anyway to feel better..l have diabetes, sometimes kidney

> pain, foot pain(neuropathy} ..plagued by cravings..just generally dont feel

> well..thinking my liver may need flushing or is congested.... l am wondering

> if some oxy type thingy or liquid would help me in any way? if any of you are

> knowledgeable of oxystuff...maybe you can tell me... l am thinking it would

> help me feel better quicker there is so much info out there....2001 is

> going to be the year l attain good health again. thankyou in advance!

-----

carpe diem, carpe pecunia, carpe femina. -- Jim Lambert

jlambert@... http://www.entrance.to/madscience

http://www.entrance.to/poetry

Posted January 1, 2001 · January 1, 2001

In a message dated 1/1/2001 2:42:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,

jlambert@... writes:

<<

If you can manage it, eat meats & fats raw. This is one of the most

important things that most folks miss. The body can't handle fats that

have been heated. The body needs it fats raw. The brain is mostly

lipids. You need the right raw fats daily. Eating 1/2 lb raw, unsalted

butter daily with unheated honey will cause an obese person to LOSE

weight! (Butter & honey stirred together is so much like the cream

filling in an oreo, it feels sinful!)

>>

wow..this is shocking to me..to eat meat raw...because of another list l am

they say that if you eat meat or fish raw you will get parasites...and that

takes a toll on your health and they can be difficult to get rid of...l know

there are many different modes of thinking on this..but if you could..l would

like to know your source of information on eating raw meat....also...how do

you eat that much butter in a day...on bread? or what..as a diabetic l dont

eat much bread..it tends to run my sugar up very high...is 1/2lb of butter

equiv to one 4 sticks or 2? give me a clue how to eat this much in one day?

thank you for your help...l do n eed to purchase a juicer ...and juice

veggies and fruits...since it would be difficult to eat that many in one

day...but l am thinking the fiber would be good for me since l dont eat much

bread. thanks again. teri

Posted January 1, 2001 · January 1, 2001

teri,

Yes, it is possible to get parasite eggs or stages when eating raw meat.

It is also possible to do the same from cooked meat. If cooking kiled

the parasites, their stages and the bad bacteria in meat, then why is it

that the only people reoporting illnesses from eating meat -- are eating

COOKED meat???

So, what, then, is the problem with raw meat? Quite frankly, none. BTW,

the bad bacteria possible in meat grows 50 times faster in cooked meat,

than in raw. Food for thought.

People in this country have forgotten what their grandmothers knew: you

have to deparisitize yourself once a year, minimum. NOW brand has a

worming product in a tincture, made from the ingredients recommended by

Hulda . I take this about 3 times a year. I did so before I started

eating raw meat. So, no big life-change going on here.

1/2 lb butter is 2 sticks. But, you will need to attend to the diabetes

before you start eating unheated honey. But, I am a very sensitive

hypoglycemic and I can eat unheated honey without getting a sugar rush

or later crash. It might not afect diabetics the same as other sources

of sugar either. Anyway, if you have type 2 diabetes I have come across

several methods of geting back its function.

jim

tmtw587@... wrote:

>

> wow..this is shocking to me..to eat meat raw...because of another list l am

> they say that if you eat meat or fish raw you will get parasites...and that

> takes a toll on your health and they can be difficult to get rid of...l know

> there are many different modes of thinking on this..but if you could..l would

> like to know your source of information on eating raw meat....also...how do

> you eat that much butter in a day...on bread? or what..as a diabetic l dont

> eat much bread..it tends to run my sugar up very high...is 1/2lb of butter

> equiv to one 4 sticks or 2? give me a clue how to eat this much in one day?

> thank you for your help...l do n eed to purchase a juicer ...and juice

> veggies and fruits...since it would be difficult to eat that many in one

> day...but l am thinking the fiber would be good for me since l dont eat much

> bread. thanks again. teri

>

-----

carpe diem, carpe pecunia, carpe femina. -- Jim Lambert

jlambert@... http://www.entrance.to/madscience

http://www.entrance.to/poetry

Posted February 1, 2001 · February 1, 2001

Hello "cuchdave.ma",

Welcome to the list. I am the mother of a 7-year-old girl who has OCD and I do recognize many of the things you write about your son from my own child's behavior. You are right that it's not always plain what is normal behavior and what isn't, but OCD compulsions are anxiety-driven which can give a clue. Given the family history and the fact that some of his behavior is causing him problems, an evaluation by a psychiatrist would probably be very helpful at this point. Unfortunately, untreated OCD and TS tend to worsen over time but can be effectively treated with therapy and/or medication.

If you let us know where you live, someone may be able to suggest a good doctor or therapist for you to see.

Kathy R in Indiana

From: cuchdave.ma

-owner

We have a 7 year old son! He has not been diagnosed, we are just beginning to suspect that something is "different" and don't know where to begin!! To give a bit of history, Tourette's runs in our family. My mother and sister both have it. My son is not exhibiting any tics at this point, but definitely signs of ocd. Examples are: He has to wear his pants a certain way to cover his shoelaces, he has to put on his gloves before his jacket and make sure the sleeve covers the gloves to a certain point, he is so concerned with his hairdo everymorning and checks himself in the mirror all the times, he has to have his toast a certain way, he is very impulsive and will not take no for an answer, does not sleep well, is always asking a million questions regarding the same topic, and the latest is he is really exhibiting innapropriate behavior and cannot seem to control it. He uses innapropriate language and says "mom, I don't know why I said that". He is also very intense about "sex" and what he is learning. Other parents have called me to tell me about innapropriate behavior during playdates. How does one know what is "normal" behavior and what is NOT? Where do we begin?

Posted February 21, 2001 · February 21, 2001

Welcome to the list. Your description of your son fits many of the kids we

read about on the list. I have a 12 yo son diagnosed at 9. He's gone

through the reading problem -- and has dysgraphia. He is on an IEP and

some of the accommodations include having a scribe, a reduction in

" copying " types of work, shortening of assignments (quality over quantity),

etc. Teaching the Tiger is a great reference for accommodations for kids

with OCD, ADHD and TS. If you can't find it at your local bookstore, it's

available from amazon.com. Kathy H and others will give you good advice on

overcoming the rereading kinds of things -- ERP is the treatment of choice.

But while you work on that, we solved at least part of the reading problem

by reading to Aiden until he was able to overcome that particular problem.

Is your son receiving any treatment? Meds, therapy? There are other

listmembers in North Carolina who may be able to direct you to local

resources.

Jule in Cleveland

Posted February 21, 2001 · February 21, 2001

Hi!. is seeing a child psychologist at our Mental Health

Center (which is also where I work, in the Developmental Disabilities

department(!) tho our department just does case management for say,

CP or autistic or similar and MR and MR/MI clients). He sees the

psychologist every 2 weeks; he's only been about 4 times or so. He's

also getting occupational therapy every week to work on his fine

motor skills.

As far as meds, well, none but Inositol for now. He had been showing

improvement after about 6-7 weeks on it, then I recently ran out for

about 3 weeks and we've just started back. More of his behaviors

started coming back about the 2nd week I guess but I want to try this

for a few more months before I try the Paxil or something. He's

always been real sensitive to meds and food, etc. Not allergic but

more to taste and texture. I'll be ready to try the prescription

later this spring if I feel the Inositol is not really helping

any/enough.

I sort of want him to try to learn to deal with the OCD on his own

somewhat, which he is trying to do, I can tell. Of my 3 sons tho,

I've always considered as the most intellectual but the least

emotionally mature one. No real social skills, sort of different

from the same-age kids, just doesn't fit in very well.

So far the nearest behavior-type therapy is too far away; I can't

take any more time off from my job between his weekly OT, biweekly

MHC sessions and monthly orthodontist visits.

I have been doing the reading to him for his " reading log " the school

has the kids do; however, since they have to read 2 hrs a day at

school now, I'm going to try to get them to cut the home reading.

He's reading at above-grade level (or was before this) so I'm not

worried about him getting through school not knowing how to read

(which is I guess the reason schools push reading so much these

days).

DOES THE SCRIBE WORK FOR YOUR SON OKAY? may have to do this

for the state writing test; I'm not sure how dictating to someone

else will work when making up a story.

ALSO - do a lot of the kids seem to show more symptoms at home than

at school?

Well, I guess this is enough questions for now! I'll keep reading

the posted messages. I'm not real familiar with doing messages,

etc., on computers so this is NEW to me.

Thanks Jule!

>

> Welcome to the list. Your description of your son fits many of the

kids we

> read about on the list. I have a 12 yo son diagnosed at 9. He's

gone

> through the reading problem -- and has dysgraphia. He is on an IEP

and

> some of the accommodations include having a scribe, a reduction in

> " copying " types of work, shortening of assignments (quality over

quantity),

> etc. Teaching the Tiger is a great reference for accommodations

for kids

> with OCD, ADHD and TS. If you can't find it at your local

bookstore, it's

> available from amazon.com. Kathy H and others will give you good

advice on

> overcoming the rereading kinds of things -- ERP is the treatment of

choice.

> But while you work on that, we solved at least part of the reading

problem

> by reading to Aiden until he was able to overcome that particular

problem.

>

> Is your son receiving any treatment? Meds, therapy? There are

other

> listmembers in North Carolina who may be able to direct you to local

> resources.

>

> Jule in Cleveland

Posted February 21, 2001 · February 21, 2001

The way the scribing works for my son is this: the scribe writes what he

says. She will sometimes ask him how to spell a word. He has to tell her

where punctuation and capitals, etc. go. He is able to proofread pretty

well once the information is down on the page. If he has to write

something out himself, there is minimal detail and few sentences. With a

scribe, he is able to tell a real story.

He takes proficiency tests in a small group setting. He can have extra

time, although so far he hasn't needed it. All of this is written into his

IEP.

Jule

Posted February 21, 2001 · February 21, 2001

Hi (I didn't catch your name) I don't write very often because it takes all

my spare time just keeping up with reading the posts but I had to respond to

you no matter how briefly. There isn't ANYTHING you described about your

son that I haven't been through with my Joe. The only difference is that he

is 9 1/2. Two years ago, my life was a nightmare. Now, Joe is almost

symptom free. It has been a roller coaster ride, however. He is currently

on his second medication (Luvox , 100mgs a day) and has adopted bossing

" Butthead " as a way of life. He has spent a good number of months in

therapy (ERP), with a behavioral psychologist who specializes in childhood

anxiety disorders. I had to drive 250 miles one way to take him there.

Now, he manages pretty much on his own, with a little guidance and

encouragement from Mom, and his daily medication, which is a rather low

dose. There is so much to talk about, that I don't know where to start, but

I think I can help you and shed some light toward the end of the tunnel.

Alot of these symptoms, even the dysgraphia, cleared up once he started

meds. Is your son taking any?

I work for a school district, and without getting political - I personally

hate those state tests for a variety of reasons. I know you probably want

your son to do as many things as possible that the other kids do, but you

can ask that your son be excluded from those tests if you would rather he

didn't have to take them. School Districts don't advertise that parents

have this right, (and I don't know for sure that your state does) but it is

most likely the case.

Is your son an identical twin? Does the other twin have any symptoms? Just

wondering.. . More later. Eliza in WI

New Member

> Hi! I just recently found this OCD parenting group and after reading

> through some of the posted messages, decided to join as some of the

> messages have been really helpful, at least in knowing that others

> have the same problems.

>

> My 12-year-old son (one of twins) was diagnosed with OCD last

> September. His main symptoms are getting " stuck " in spots (like

> doorways or going from room to room); also it's always or usually

> a " touching " thing - he has to touch it (with foot/hand) until

> it " feels right " -- whether it's touching the dresser, the floor, a

> wall, getting on the bed the right way, touching his own head, not

> being able to move his arms/leg unless someone helps him at just

> the " right " time. He also says he can't read because he gets stuck or

> has to repeat it until it sounds " right " in his head. Most of the

> symptoms seemed to just suddenly appear back in September after he

> started 6th grade. The first sign something was wrong was his

> handwriting changed from readable to unreadable (so he's now been

> diagnosed with dysgraphia also). Also, it's sometimes like he has so

> many thoughts going through his head at one time (or that's the

> impression I get) that he gets more OCDish.

>

> Looking back to elementary school, I can see some previous symptoms,

> but nothing like NOW.

>

> Does anyone else have a child with any of these symptoms?

>

> I'm hoping I can sometimes be of some help and also get help/support

> from reading the messages in this group. I'm still working with the

> school on modifying his classwork and have another meeting coming up.

> We just got him on a 504 plan recently and some of the things we

> changed were: no bad grade for work turned in late - we try to catch

> up every weekend on what we didn't complete the previous week (plus I

> am having to write his homework since his handwriting is unreadable,

> and also he just can't seem to even TRY to write at home, tho he does

> begin his assignments at school and his teachers can decipher some of

> the writing). Also, he will be able to write in the actual test

> booklet on the state exams (here in North Carolina); he will also

> either dictate to someone or be given the chance to type on a

> computer the written part of the state test.

>

> I'm now getting ready to have another 504 meeting due to him not

> being able to read each night at home as they are assigned to do for

> their " reading program. " He's failing his language class due to not

> being able to complete this. His intelligence and reading skills are

> very high.

>

> I KNOW THIS WAS A LONG MESSAGE (SORRY!!) BUT I JUST WANTED TO

> INTRODUCE MYSELF AND OUR OCD LIFE A LITTLE.

>

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In

the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may

subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at

parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may access the

files, bookmarks, and archives for our list at

. Our list advisors are

Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D. Our

list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens, Gail Pesses,

Kathy , and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or suggestions may

be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at harkins@... .

>

Posted February 22, 2001 · February 22, 2001

Castleboys3 wrote: ALSO - do a lot of the kids seem to show more symptoms at

home than

at school?

This has certainly been my experience. Because most of our kids are aware that

their Os and Cs make them " different " from their peers, they try extra hard to

fit in and keep the ocd monster at bay while in school. When they come home,

they are exhausted from all this mental work, and home is a safe environment.

Therefore, we bear the brunt of it. Still, I would rather my kids acted out at

home than in public. This is true even of my NT kids. <VBG>

Jule

Posted February 22, 2001 · February 22, 2001

Hello,

I have been following these posts for about 2 weeks, but this is the first time I have replied.

I just read the post from (?). I could have written that. I also have a12yo son with OCD. My son was diagnosed at age 9 and continues to get worse.

He also suddenly went from nice penmanship to totally illegible writing. I hadn't heard of dysgrahia before now.

Also, he is failing Language Arts due to not turning in his assignments.

This (LA) was always his strong point. He is very bright and could read very young. Now I am dealing with his teachers constantly. We tried different things, like having me turn his assignments in. His teachers decided that micro-managing him was not working so now they let him turn things in when he has them without his grade suffering for late work. We had discussed a 504 plan, but didn't think this was the right way to go.

He refuses treatment and medications. I did force the issue, but after 4 months, he and his dad decided it wasn't doing anything. So now we just live with it and it is driving us all crazy.

I wish I knew how to help him. That is why I came to this group. It does help to hear other parents views!

Becky in WA

Posted February 22, 2001 · February 22, 2001

HI Becky:

Please know there is a way out of this pain. It is hard work, like

digging yourself out of a pit, but easier than that - VBG.

Particularly when our kids are untreated they need accommodations at

school. I cannot understand why your son's school would not follow

the 504 option.

Sometimes it feels like our kids do not want to accept treatment.

Dr. Herbert Gravitz explains it well. He says, " You can lead a horse

to water, and you cannot make it drink; however you can make it

very thirsty. " Making our kids thirsty is painful for us, but

it is an essential part of their getting on with treatment. When we

act as if they can go through the scary treatment we send them a very

strong and powerful message that we believe in them and their ability to

persist no matter how hard OCD bosses them around. We have to be

willing to cope with short term pain for the long term gain. This

is very hard and sometimes even an exquisite agony.

Steve would only do E & RP the third time around. It was very

frustrating I can tell you. Building on his strengths and being on

a team with him helped, so did having knowledgeable therapists.

They can form an effective therapeutic alliance with our kids and

encourage them to take a chance at bossing back OCD. GOod luck,

take care, aloha, Kathy (h)

kathyh@...

At 05:48 PM 02/22/2001 -0500, you wrote:

Hello,

I have been following these posts for about 2 weeks, but this is the

first

time I have replied.

I just read the post from (?). I could have written

that. I

also have a12yo son with OCD. My son was diagnosed at age 9 and

continues to

get worse.

He also suddenly went from nice penmanship to totally illegible

writing. I

hadn't heard of dysgrahia before now.

Also, he is failing Language Arts due to not turning in his

assignments.

This (LA) was always his strong point. He is very bright and could

read very

young. Now I am dealing with his teachers constantly. We

tried different

things, like having me turn his assignments in. His teachers

decided that

micro-managing him was not working so now they let him turn things in

when he

has them without his grade suffering for late work. We had

discussed a 504

plan, but didn't think this was the right way to go.

He refuses treatment and medications. I did force the issue, but

after 4

months, he and his dad decided it wasn't doing anything. So now we

just live

with it and it is driving us all crazy.

I wish I knew how to help him. That is why I came to this

group. It does

help to hear other parents views!

Becky in WA

Sponsor

Posted March 17, 2001 · March 17, 2001

Welcome Joni, you have found a really caring,

knowledgeable and supportive group of people here.

Good luck and know that venting is healthy.

=====

Teelablue mom to summer 4 1/2 SID and OCD and a baby girl due April 15th.

_______________________________________________________

Posted March 18, 2001 · March 18, 2001

Hi Joni and welcome to the list. Feel free to vent anytime, all of us here

understand the frustration! Reading your post, it seems your son has yet to

have significant response to an SSRI, and I also hope Luvox works well for

him. By the way, don't worry about nausea/vomiting as actually doing this

is ERP for all the " what if I throw up " obsessions. :-)

Speaking of, does your son receive Exposure and Response Prevention Therapy?

This is the only therapy that reduces and can eliminate OCD compulsions.

From your post, it seems your son is still significantly affected by OCD and

ERP can help him get away from his many compulsions.

It seems you are significantly entangled in many of your son's compulsions.

Many of us have done this to help out our tormented children and/or avoid

the meltdown that happens when we won't cooperate. However in the long run

this is extending an invitation to OCD to become more and more of a burden

on our kids. OCDers can sometimes " borrow " the assuredness of someone else

when their own brain seems unable to register that he has for ex. wiped

enough, as your son does. It's to be expected that at first he will blow up

when you refuse to do this for him, however this is how you start working

your way out of his compulsions. E & RP is how you can help him come to trust

what his own brain is telling him, and rely less and less on your judgement

and input.

OCD, Tourette's (tics etc.) and ADHD exist many times as a triad, and many

OCD kids have some aspects of the other two disorders. The yawning motion

he's developed could be a tic.

Kathy R in Indiana

----- Original Message -----

From: " Joni " <lyricaldreamer@...>

> 'What if I start to worry while I'm at baseball

> practice?' 'What if I throw up?' 'What if I start to worry about my

> worries?' 'What if, what if, what if...' He's also been a hair

> twirler since he was very small and I just found out that this is

> another sign of OCD (I thought he did this for comfort and security)

> but now, it's gotten so bad that he twirls his hair into knots. He

> just recently developed a fear of throwing up and won't eat. If

> someone reaches into the popcorn bowl, he thinks the whole bowl is

> contaminated. If all that isn't bad enough, he's developed

> a 'twitch' type of facial movement where he opens and closes his

> mouth, in an involuntary way, when he's going through one of his 'OCD

> episodes.' The twitch is NOT related to the medication because it was

> still present when he went off the meds for 3 weeks.

>

> He's going to child psychiatrist who has prescribed Paxil, Prozac and

> Celexa. Paxil was the only one that showed promise, but it made him

> very tired and he gained quite a bit of weight on this med. Prozac

> and Celexa actually INCREASED the symptoms. He's on Luvox now-- just

> started this week and I don't know what to expect. According to the

> pamphlet that came with the drug, the side effects are nausea and

> stomach aches-- and I'm praying that won't happen because he already

> has a fear of throwing up.

>

> The most draining thing for me is when he has an OCD episode, he

> depends on *me* to tell him 'NO-- you DONT need to check yourself in

> the bathroom again.' If I transfer the decision making to him, he

> has a full blown FIT. He depends on me to be the rational one,

> because he seems to know intuitively that his brain is telling him

> the wrong thing. Yet, he still needs my reassurance to tell

> him " No " Therefore, my question to the group is: How do I teach my

> son to TRUST his own brain and become an independent thinker if he

> doesn't have any faith at all in what his mind is telling him? Like

> I stated above, he gets FURIOUS with me if I ask him 'Well, what do

> YOU think you should do? "

>

> Anyway, I'm VERY happy to have a place to run to when things get

> crazy around here. Dealing with his OCD is so exhausting for me and

> I can't imagine what he's going through. It breaks my heart to see

> my son being tormented by this agonizing disorder!

>

> Thanks for allowing me to vent, and I'm sorry this was so long. It's

> really good to find a place where people UNDERSTAND!!!

Posted March 18, 2001 · March 18, 2001

Hi Joni:

Welcome to the list. My son, Steve, was 10 when we figured out he has OCD.

He was able to hide it from us for years before that.

YOu do not mention any cognitive behavior therapy (CBT) for your son. This

is the first line treatment for OCD according to the expert consensus

guidelines for children with OCD. YOu might want to check out the OCF

website (http://www.ocfoundation.org) and our files section for more

information about kids and OCD. CBT, specifically exposure and response

prevention (E & RP) is very helpful for OCD, and some kids can recover

considerably with this therapy alone. Others also take SSRIs.

It is not at all uncommon for SSRIs to make OCD symptoms worse at first.

IN fact this can be an encouraging sign that the specific SSRI being used

will be effective for OCD once the child has adjusted to the medication and

the dosage is high enough to work for OCD. My son is also on Luvox now,

but a much lower dosage as the E & RP has helped his OCD. The Luvox is

mostly for his MDD (major depressive disorder).

Early treatment for our kids is the way to go as their brains are so

plastic. I encourage you to read Dr. March and Mulle's book,

" Obsessive Compulsive Disorder in Children and Adolescents. " This

describes the state-of-the-art treatment for kids with OCD and when you

find a qualified CBT therapist experienced with treating kids, you will

notice a remarkable improvement. This book also suggest some important

ideas for extracting the family from OCD symptoms. YOu are already doing

this when you do not respond as your son wants to his requests for

reassurance so I am sure you will pick up the ideas fast.

Another helpful book is " Freeing Your Child from Obsessive Compulsive

Disorder " by Dr. Tamar Chansky, who is one of our list docs. Another list

doc, Dr. Aureen Pinto Wagner wrote, " Up and Down the Worry Hill " which

skillfully uses analogies to help kids cope with E & RP. Good luck, welcome

to the list, take care, aloha, Kathy (h)

kathyh@...

At 05:51 AM 03/17/2001 -0000, you wrote:

>Oh wow! I'm so happy to find a group of parents with children like

>my son!! It's such a relief! No one in my circle of friends/family

>understands this thing!! Anyway, hello! I'm Joni and I live in

>Virginia USA. My 10 year old son has struggled with OCD for 5 years

>(it started when he was 5). He'd ask me the same question over and

>over again, and not knowing what it was, I took him to several

>doctors for hearing tests, etc. I finally figured out it was OCD

>(when I found out that my mother-in-law clicks her alarm clock at

>least 50 times each night before she goes to sleep).

>

>My son's symptoms are the following: He has an abnormal fear of

>thunderstorms and is paranoid that we'll get a tornado even though we

>don't live in an area that has tornado's and chances are, we never

>will have one. He gets panic attacks and severe mood swings. He

>does the erasing thing on his school papers-- very very low

>frustration-- and can be a perfectionism if one 't' isn't crossed the

>correct way or if he made a letter wrong, in which he'll have full

>blown fits and will scribble wildly on his paper and/or tear it up

>into shreds. He compulsively wipes himself in the bathroom and he

>can't get clean enough. He also showers too much. Then, he worries

>about the worrying and will say 'what if I need to go to the

>bathroom?' 'What if I start to worry while I'm at baseball

>practice?' 'What if I throw up?' 'What if I start to worry about my

>worries?' 'What if, what if, what if...' He's also been a hair

>twirler since he was very small and I just found out that this is

>another sign of OCD (I thought he did this for comfort and security)

>but now, it's gotten so bad that he twirls his hair into knots. He

>just recently developed a fear of throwing up and won't eat. If

>someone reaches into the popcorn bowl, he thinks the whole bowl is

>contaminated. If all that isn't bad enough, he's developed

>a 'twitch' type of facial movement where he opens and closes his

>mouth, in an involuntary way, when he's going through one of his 'OCD

>episodes.' The twitch is NOT related to the medication because it was

>still present when he went off the meds for 3 weeks.

>

>He's going to child psychiatrist who has prescribed Paxil, Prozac and

>Celexa. Paxil was the only one that showed promise, but it made him

>very tired and he gained quite a bit of weight on this med. Prozac

>and Celexa actually INCREASED the symptoms. He's on Luvox now-- just

>started this week and I don't know what to expect. According to the

>pamphlet that came with the drug, the side effects are nausea and

>stomach aches-- and I'm praying that won't happen because he already

>has a fear of throwing up.

>

>The most draining thing for me is when he has an OCD episode, he

>depends on *me* to tell him 'NO-- you DONT need to check yourself in

>the bathroom again.' If I transfer the decision making to him, he

>has a full blown FIT. He depends on me to be the rational one,

>because he seems to know intuitively that his brain is telling him

>the wrong thing. Yet, he still needs my reassurance to tell

>him " No " Therefore, my question to the group is: How do I teach my

>son to TRUST his own brain and become an independent thinker if he

>doesn't have any faith at all in what his mind is telling him? Like

>I stated above, he gets FURIOUS with me if I ask him 'Well, what do

>YOU think you should do? "

>

>Anyway, I'm VERY happy to have a place to run to when things get

>crazy around here. Dealing with his OCD is so exhausting for me and

>I can't imagine what he's going through. It breaks my heart to see

>my son being tormented by this agonizing disorder!

>

>Thanks for allowing me to vent, and I'm sorry this was so long. It's

>really good to find a place where people UNDERSTAND!!!

>Joni

Posted March 19, 2001 · March 19, 2001

Hi Joni! I'm still " new " to this group too, I just joined about a

month or so ago. This really has been the best help for me, reading

the posts about what other parents are dealing with and how they

handle things, being able to ask for advice and to just know I'm not

the only one going through this type of thing. It has lifted some of

the weight from my shoulders and actually improved my outlook and

mood.

You wrote that:

The most draining thing for me is when he has an OCD episode, he

>depends on *me* to tell him 'NO-- you DONT need to check yourself in

>the bathroom again.' If I transfer the decision making to him, he

>has a full blown FIT. He depends on me to be the rational one,

>because he seems to know intuitively that his brain is telling him

>the wrong thing. Yet, he still needs my reassurance to tell

>him " No "

My son (just turned 12, began severe OCD last Sept.) sort of

does this with me. It's as if he needs me to just maybe touch him to

get him through an OCD thing, say, I touch his hand and " bang! " he's

able to let go of something or get through a doorway. His brothers

can't do this, just me or his grandma have the " magic touch. " I

think of this as some kind of reassurance too.

use to mark on his papers if something didn't look right -

he'd draw lines from the letter that looked wrong to the top of the

paper and have lines all over the place. He's quit this though he

said he drew the lines because the letter didn't look right; and he

erased a lot to. This has gone away. He recently revealed to me

that ALL the things he did then and does now is to keep

something " bad " from happening to HIM (not any of us). He's always

been frustrated really easily too.

This past weekend I was out " working " on my car (having car trouble,

I was actually just looking under the hood, don't know much about

cars); anyway, 's twin brother came up and said he

thought he heard screaming. I went inside and he was REALLY

screaming and crying. He had been trying to get up off the bed and

out of the room and couldn't, said he'd been screaming for a while.

(I guess this means never leave him home alone!!)

Well, anyway, welcome to this great group!!

in N.C.

> Oh wow! I'm so happy to find a group of parents with children like

> my son!! It's such a relief! No one in my circle of

friends/family

> understands this thing!! Anyway, hello! I'm Joni and I live in

> Virginia USA. My 10 year old son has struggled with OCD for 5

years

> (it started when he was 5). He'd ask me the same question over and

> over again, and not knowing what it was, I took him to several

> doctors for hearing tests, etc. I finally figured out it was OCD

> (when I found out that my mother-in-law clicks her alarm clock at

> least 50 times each night before she goes to sleep).

>

> My son's symptoms are the following: He has an abnormal fear of

> thunderstorms and is paranoid that we'll get a tornado even though

we

> don't live in an area that has tornado's and chances are, we never

> will have one. He gets panic attacks and severe mood swings. He

> does the erasing thing on his school papers-- very very low

> frustration-- and can be a perfectionism if one 't' isn't crossed

the

> correct way or if he made a letter wrong, in which he'll have full

> blown fits and will scribble wildly on his paper and/or tear it up

> into shreds. He compulsively wipes himself in the bathroom and he

> can't get clean enough. He also showers too much. Then, he

worries

> about the worrying and will say 'what if I need to go to the

> bathroom?' 'What if I start to worry while I'm at baseball

> practice?' 'What if I throw up?' 'What if I start to worry about my

> worries?' 'What if, what if, what if...' He's also been a hair

> twirler since he was very small and I just found out that this is

> another sign of OCD (I thought he did this for comfort and

security)

> but now, it's gotten so bad that he twirls his hair into knots. He

> just recently developed a fear of throwing up and won't eat. If

> someone reaches into the popcorn bowl, he thinks the whole bowl is

> contaminated. If all that isn't bad enough, he's developed

> a 'twitch' type of facial movement where he opens and closes his

> mouth, in an involuntary way, when he's going through one of

his 'OCD

> episodes.' The twitch is NOT related to the medication because it

was

> still present when he went off the meds for 3 weeks.

>

> He's going to child psychiatrist who has prescribed Paxil, Prozac

and

> Celexa. Paxil was the only one that showed promise, but it made

him

> very tired and he gained quite a bit of weight on this med. Prozac

> and Celexa actually INCREASED the symptoms. He's on Luvox now--

just

> started this week and I don't know what to expect. According to

the

> pamphlet that came with the drug, the side effects are nausea and

> stomach aches-- and I'm praying that won't happen because he

already

> has a fear of throwing up.

>

> The most draining thing for me is when he has an OCD episode, he

> depends on *me* to tell him 'NO-- you DONT need to check yourself

in

> the bathroom again.' If I transfer the decision making to him, he

> has a full blown FIT. He depends on me to be the rational one,

> because he seems to know intuitively that his brain is telling him

> the wrong thing. Yet, he still needs my reassurance to tell

> him " No " Therefore, my question to the group is: How do I teach my

> son to TRUST his own brain and become an independent thinker if he

> doesn't have any faith at all in what his mind is telling him?

Like

> I stated above, he gets FURIOUS with me if I ask him 'Well, what do

> YOU think you should do? "

>

> Anyway, I'm VERY happy to have a place to run to when things get

> crazy around here. Dealing with his OCD is so exhausting for me

and

> I can't imagine what he's going through. It breaks my heart to see

> my son being tormented by this agonizing disorder!

>

> Thanks for allowing me to vent, and I'm sorry this was so long.

It's

> really good to find a place where people UNDERSTAND!!!

> Joni

Posted April 29, 2001 · April 29, 2001

She also feels her hands are " sticky " alot

> and must wash them. She suffers from exzema, however, can't stand

> cream on her body especially on her hands and face.

Welcome to this FABULOUS group, Shana!

Now that you mentioned your daughter's sensitivity to hand lotions,

it just occurred to me that putting sunscreen on my 10 year old son

has ALWAYS been a battle. He HATES the feeling on his skin.

Whenever he's had a case of dry skin or sunburn (as a result of

refusing to wear the sunscreen!) he can't TOLERATE anything on his

skin to soothe the burn (or the dry skin). ?? I guess this is that

SID's thing again. Wow... another thing to add to the list. He

can't stand loud or 'scary' noises either.

You've come to the right place to vent, ask questions and get

support. It's soooo tough dealing with OCD and if I didn't have this

wonderful group of people to lean on, I'd fly right over the cuckoo's

nest!

Once again, welcome to the group.

Joni

Posted April 29, 2001 · April 29, 2001

My daughter is 5 and sounds sooo much like your daughter. Feel free

to e-mail me and we can chat about it! Some people think that the

sensory sensitivity is a separate disorder called sensory integration

dysfunction that often occurs with OCD. My daughter has it severely,

whatever anyone wants to call it. Our mornings are also a

nightmare. I've learned a few tricks here and there, and

occupational therapy has helped some--a deep brushing technique

taught by occupational therapist has been miraculous for some kids

with sensory problems. It helped moderately, but it has

helped. You might also want to read the book " The Out of Sync " child

for ideas too. My daughter also had the same medicine rollercoaster

on prozac. We actually had the same November-March time that the

medicine was working and then seemed to stop. For us, the addition

of risperdal, an anti-psychotic helped for awhile, but then stopped

working about a month later. We have been stable on zoloft for

almost a year now, titrating up just a little after every three

months or so. The thing to remember is that everyone goes through

times when it seems the medication is not working out, but then

eventually something will work out for you. My daughter's

psychologist has to keep reminding me of this whenever I get

the " medicine doesn't seem to be working as well " blues. Welcome to

this group, it is wonderful!

Stephany

Posted April 29, 2001 · April 29, 2001

Hi Shana,

I just wanted to say " welcome to the board. " I am a mother with

OCD/depression w/a child who may have OCD (still hasn't been

diagnosed). He's nearly 7-yrs.-old. He exhibits (what I think is)

OCD as trouble letting go of anger, a need to be in control and

have things " just right. " Also he doesn't like to touch the paper

on straws or crayons and kleenex. He's in the midst of diagnostic

testing for a learning disability, but the psychological portion of

the exam won't happen soon enough for me, so my husband and I are

going to see a different psychologist next Monday to discuss

and see what he thinks might be up with him. There's a

long line of mental illness on my dad's side of the family, but

even if it shows up that doesn't have OCD, perhaps the

psychologist can offer us some advice on how to handle his

frustration and anger. I'm still pretty new to the board myself, so I

can't really offer much more than a hearty welcome. I'm sure you'll

find a lot of support and friendship here. Welcome!

-Jean

Posted April 30, 2001 · April 30, 2001

Hi Shana:

Welcome. As you have noticed there are lots of parents in very similar

circumstances to yours on this list. Good for you getting treatment for

your daughter at a young age. There are many of us who wish we had figured

out what was going on earlier as early intervention is the way to go.

Getting OCD under control is very challenging. However the effort is well

worth it when our kids learn how to boss back OCD into the backgrounds of

their lives. It can be hard to find therapists trained in working with

young kids. Using metaphors in treatment can be very helpful when working

with young people. Two of our list docs have written very helpful books

for this age group. Dr. Tamar Chansky has written " Freeing Your Child from

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder " and Dr. Aureen Pinto Wagner has written " Up

and Down the Worry Hill. "

If you share where you live you may find another parent on the list who can

share local OCD treatment resources with you. Good luck, take care, aloha,

Kathy (h)

kathyh@...

At 10:06 PM 04/29/2001 -0000, you wrote:

>Hi everyone,

>This is the first time I have had a chance to hear about other people

>who are going through the same thing as us. It such a relief to know

>we are not alone! My daugher, Tarryn, just turned six last weekend.

>She was first diagnosed with ocd when she was 4, however we just

>started medication and therapy last fall. Her biggest problem is

>clothing (shoes, socks, underwear, pants, dresses, shirts, pretty

>much everything). She says it feels " weird " or " too tight " . Every

>morning is a nightmare. She also feels her hands are " sticky " alot

>and must wash them. She suffers from exzema, however, can't stand

>cream on her body especially on her hands and face. She has been on

>luvox since November (started at 50mg, it was upped to 100mg in

>January). Initially, we had a lot of improvement, however, in March

>things started to deteriorate again. It's so frusrtrating. The

>medication does continue to help her be less anxious when she is

>confronted with ocd symptoms, but she seems to be losing her

>motivation to fight it.

>Thanks for listening,

>Shana

>

Posted April 30, 2001 · April 30, 2001

Hi Shana,

I also am new to this group and have a 7yr old daughter with OCD. I was

so relieved to find this group. Listening to everyone has helped me a

lot. My daughter has always had OCD but really found out 6 months ago.

She can't stand clothes either and shoes. Same again, to tight, too

big, doesnt' feel right, doesnt' look right. Getting her dressed for

school is a nightmare. She also is SI which doesn't help us either.

Welcome to this group and I'm sure we will meet again soon.

Steffie (GA)

macpherson3363@... wrote:

>

> Hi everyone,

> This is the first time I have had a chance to hear about other people

> who are going through the same thing as us. It such a relief to know

> we are not alone! My daugher, Tarryn, just turned six last weekend.

> She was first diagnosed with ocd when she was 4, however we just

> started medication and therapy last fall. Her biggest problem is

> clothing (shoes, socks, underwear, pants, dresses, shirts, pretty

> much everything). She says it feels " weird " or " too tight " . Every

> morning is a nightmare. She also feels her hands are " sticky " alot

> and must wash them. She suffers from exzema, however, can't stand

> cream on her body especially on her hands and face. She has been on

> luvox since November (started at 50mg, it was upped to 100mg in

> January). Initially, we had a lot of improvement, however, in March

> things started to deteriorate again. It's so frusrtrating. The

> medication does continue to help her be less anxious when she is

> confronted with ocd symptoms, but she seems to be losing her

> motivation to fight it.

> Thanks for listening,

> Shana

>

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the

body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may subscribe to

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parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may subscribe to the

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list advisors are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan

Geller, M.D. Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule

Monnens, Gail Pesses, Kathy , and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or

suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at

lharkins@... .

>

Posted May 1, 2001 · May 1, 2001

Dear Shana:

Your story could be mine! My son was 6 when he was diagnosed and had the

same problems. I had to sit on him to dress him otherwise he wouldn't

dress. He also didn't wear underwear for 6 - 8 months. They started him on

Luvox and things began to get better. They took him all the way up to 200

mg. it worked the best but after being on it for a year it lost its

effectiveness. We've never gotten back to the " good days " of Luvox since.

Therapy worked by having him do very small pieces at a time. EG. Putting

on his socks that were " uncomfortable " for 1 minute, then the next day

increase it to 2 or 3 minutes -- pretty soon he was able to do it.

Good luck!!

Tamra