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Re: Fw: ANC ! ! !

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Hi Eva,

One point I would like to make on this that my first Onc made to me, he

stated: " you are the customer, we are here to serve and take care of you! " I

took that to heart. I would like to think of the Onc's as partner's not some

bossy parent, if you will. Like when we were all little kids, " mom, why? "

" Because I said so! " No reason given, just because they, in their infinite

wisdom decided so.

I have a meeting with my Onc tomorrow. I already know he wants me to stop

Gleevec and start Sprycell. The matter to me is this, I am not ready for the

change. I am in my busy season with work, I cannot afford any stuff up's

this time of year, or start feeling bad, etc. So, I am going to suggest as I

have a 60 day supply of Gleevec, to stay the course for two more months and

then let's see where we are. I do suffer fatigue and headache's, but just

recently I am feeling as though I am turning the corner on them. So, we shall

see. My point being, I feel he is there to advise and of course protect me,

but

I should have a say so in the treatment.

Cheers,

Chris

**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

fuel-efficient used cars.

(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

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Hey Eva, I hope you investigate ALL your other options. Take your

options to your oncologist and ask her to try the one YOU want to.

Gleevec can tank some of your count... as do other meds. There are many

who take litle breaks only to restart again in order to bring up your

counts. - doctor supervised. There are medications like tasigna which

I am on) and there are others like sprycel. My oncologist always wanted

to save the other meds in case I became gleevec resistant. I am not

sure but I think if you google gleevec you will find the medication

protocol flow chart which would direct you both in the options for you.

I had terrible side effects with gleevec. I took a 10 week break (

under the direction of Druker and my oncologist) and returned to the

dosage of 300 mg. Unfortunately, te side effects returned. So I switched

to tasigna. I just know there are options and I would not settle for an

" I don't know " from ANY doctor. You also might write Druker to see what

he would suggest. He answers ALL emails. I am gong on line now to see

if I can find the flow chart for you. Best of luck Barb in AZ

>

>

>

>

> From: Eva

> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:42 PM

> KTTWEETY@...

> Subject: Re: ANC ! ! !

>

>

> Hi , I am 52 yrs old. My doc told me than my Neutrophils were 0.9 ,

told me to stop taking Gleevec and that I was to come back in one week

and if my levels weren't better than I would probably have to go on

Sprycel. I was alarmed. She was so matter of fact . My husband was with

me for the first time and he was mad , there was no discussing any other

options she just kept on saying , " I don't think so " We asked if I could

just take half of my Gleevec and she said No , I don't think so . I was

doing really well. I wasn't have any side effects anymore and I was

starting to feel like myself again. I was finally feeling relaxed and

was not feeling like I was going to die anymore. I go back this

Wednesday we will see what she says. Thanks for your input. Eva

>

> LKCS 2.8

> HGB 123

> HCT 0.355

>

> MCV 105.0

> Neutrophils 0.9

> Lymphocytes 1.5

> Monocytes 0.3

> Eosinophils 0.09

> Basophils 0.01

> LD 681

>

>

>

> From: IAintFinishedYet

> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:32 PM

> Eva

> Subject: ANC ! ! !

>

>

> Hey Sister Survivor. . .

> I don't know your age off-hand, however; I do know that I had very low

ANC counts after diagnosis. So low, that when my daughter took me to a

hospital in another county, my boy~~Doctor; wanting access to the

hospital; told me to be admitted or I would die if I didn't let them

admit me from the low ANC count.

> The fact that it was over 40+ miles away; I left against medical

advise and went to my hospital. I ended up firing this doctor for not

giving my pain medication to me while he was oncall for 2 days. Stating

that my pain wasn't caused by my Cancer and he wasn't giving me

narcotics.

> Back to the subject, I didn't have a 2nd or 3rd generation medication

to take then and I am now in my 5th year as a Survivor. I know that

middle-age survivors with other Chronic health issues, like myself;

aren't doing very well on Sprycel, etc. for longevity, our gold~~Gleevec

is the medication for us. Sprycel causes Pleural Effusion, Heart issues,

etc., It is for patients who fail or become intolerant to our Gold. .

..not as an either/or medication. Though some Physicians are prescribing

it initially. Please get all information before you switch, because some

Survivors haven't been able to go back to Gleevec after being on

Sprycel., and are having Lung & Heart issues. I am not saying this to

alarm you, I want you to educate yourself, before proceeding to Sprycel.

A low ANC count doesn't mean you have failed Gleevec therapy . . . I was

hospitalied 3xs with low ANC after diagnosis . . .

> I AM A SURVIVOR. . .I AIN'T FINISHED YET ! ! !

> Remember also, that the H/O~~Hematologists/Oncologists are learning

about our disease through us, we are the 1st Survivors~~Pioneers of our

disease. We cannot let them make Guinea Pigs out of us. . .we must

remain informed and educated Pioneers/Warriors for future Survivors.

They look at each of us as a Statistic. . .I consider each of us an

Individual and we must be active, informed, and educated in our

treatment for our Survival. I personally don't want to lose another

Brother or Sister Survivor who has let his/her Doctor use as a Guinea

Pig without knowing ALL the pros and cons. I have seen enough of that

since my diagnosis in 2003 and the morbid mortality I was given at that

time.

> This is FYI~~my 2 cents only. I am not Doctor, never portrayed one on

TV, nor do I aspire to be a Physician in another life.

> Take care, I have you in my prayers. . . " K "

>

>

>

> " K "

> " I AIN'T FINISHED YET " !!!

>

>

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Hi Eva,

Are these numbers your test results ? I thought the differential numbers :

Neutrophils 0.9

Lymphocytes 1.5

Monocytes 0.3

Eosinophils 0.09

Basophils 0.01

should sum to 1 (or close), are you sure you typed it right ? I am guessing

the 1.5 is 0.15, but still it doesn't add up to 1. From what I am reading

you white cell count is 2.8 and the Neutrophils 90%, that's more Absolute

Neutrophil Count (ANC) than what I have ! It is way above 1, it's 2.9*0.9 =

2.52. My other guess is that you Neutrophils are around 45% (0.45) and then

the ANC is about 1.3. Tracey, can you take a look at these numbers ?

Marcos.

LKCS 2.8

HGB 123

HCT 0.355

MCV 105.0

Neutrophils 0.9

On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 6:19 AM, Eva <evaob365@...> wrote:

>

>

> From: Eva

> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:42 PM

> KTTWEETY@... <KTTWEETY%40sbcglobal.net>

> Subject: Re: ANC ! ! !

>

> Hi , I am 52 yrs old. My doc told me than my Neutrophils were 0.9 , told me

> to stop taking Gleevec and that I was to come back in one week and if my

> levels weren't better than I would probably have to go on Sprycel. I was

> alarmed. She was so matter of fact . My husband was with me for the first

> time and he was mad , there was no discussing any other options she just

> kept on saying , " I don't think so " We asked if I could just take half of my

> Gleevec and she said No , I don't think so . I was doing really well. I

> wasn't have any side effects anymore and I was starting to feel like myself

> again. I was finally feeling relaxed and was not feeling like I was going to

> die anymore. I go back this Wednesday we will see what she says. Thanks for

> your input. Eva

>

> LKCS 2.8

> HGB 123

> HCT 0.355

>

> MCV 105.0

> Neutrophils 0.9

> Lymphocytes 1.5

> Monocytes 0.3

> Eosinophils 0.09

> Basophils 0.01

> LD 681

>

> From: IAintFinishedYet

> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:32 PM

> Eva

> Subject: ANC ! ! !

>

> Hey Sister Survivor. . .

> I don't know your age off-hand, however; I do know that I had very low ANC

> counts after diagnosis. So low, that when my daughter took me to a hospital

> in another county, my boy~~Doctor; wanting access to the hospital; told me

> to be admitted or I would die if I didn't let them admit me from the low ANC

> count.

> The fact that it was over 40+ miles away; I left against medical advise and

> went to my hospital. I ended up firing this doctor for not giving my pain

> medication to me while he was oncall for 2 days. Stating that my pain wasn't

> caused by my Cancer and he wasn't giving me narcotics.

> Back to the subject, I didn't have a 2nd or 3rd generation medication to

> take then and I am now in my 5th year as a Survivor. I know that middle-age

> survivors with other Chronic health issues, like myself; aren't doing very

> well on Sprycel, etc. for longevity, our gold~~Gleevec is the medication for

> us. Sprycel causes Pleural Effusion, Heart issues, etc., It is for patients

> who fail or become intolerant to our Gold. . .not as an either/or

> medication. Though some Physicians are prescribing it initially. Please get

> all information before you switch, because some Survivors haven't been able

> to go back to Gleevec after being on Sprycel., and are having Lung & Heart

> issues. I am not saying this to alarm you, I want you to educate yourself,

> before proceeding to Sprycel. A low ANC count doesn't mean you have failed

> Gleevec therapy . . . I was hospitalied 3xs with low ANC after diagnosis . .

> .

> I AM A SURVIVOR. . .I AIN'T FINISHED YET ! ! !

> Remember also, that the H/O~~Hematologists/Oncologists are learning about

> our disease through us, we are the 1st Survivors~~Pioneers of our disease.

> We cannot let them make Guinea Pigs out of us. . .we must remain informed

> and educated Pioneers/Warriors for future Survivors. They look at each of us

> as a Statistic. . .I consider each of us an Individual and we must be

> active, informed, and educated in our treatment for our Survival. I

> personally don't want to lose another Brother or Sister Survivor who has let

> his/her Doctor use as a Guinea Pig without knowing ALL the pros and cons. I

> have seen enough of that since my diagnosis in 2003 and the morbid mortality

> I was given at that time.

> This is FYI~~my 2 cents only. I am not Doctor, never portrayed one on TV,

> nor do I aspire to be a Physician in another life.

> Take care, I have you in my prayers. . . " K "

>

> " K "

> " I AIN'T FINISHED YET " !!!

>

>

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>

> Hi Eva,

> Are these numbers your test results ? I thought the differential

numbers :

> Neutrophils 0.9

> Lymphocytes 1.5

> Monocytes 0.3

> Eosinophils 0.09

> Basophils 0.01

>

> should sum to 1 (or close), are you sure you typed it right ? I am

guessing

> the 1.5 is 0.15, but still it doesn't add up to 1. From what I am

reading

> you white cell count is 2.8 and the Neutrophils 90%, that's more

Absolute

> Neutrophil Count (ANC) than what I have ! It is way above 1, it's

2.9*0.9 =

> 2.52. My other guess is that you Neutrophils are around 45% (0.45)

and then

> the ANC is about 1.3. Tracey, can you take a look at these numbers ?

> Marcos.

>

Eva.

Marcos is on the right track. This is from the automated lab report

combining the frequency of the cells (a %) with the total white blood

cell count.

Your WBC is 2.8 (x10e3/ul) or 2,800 WBC per microliter of blood.

Normal range is 5-11 (5,000 - 11,000). The key number is the ANC

(Absolute Neutrophil Count) is 0.9 which equals 900 per microliter.

Any number below 1000 calls for holding the drug. The ANC should

start to rise and the drug can be restarted at a later date.

Available options are hold Gleevec until the ANC count rises. The

drug can be restarted at a later date at the orignal dose or even a

lower one. Another option is to switch to the second generation

drugs like Sprycel or Tasigna. However, there is a chance that the

ANC may drop again with any of these options.

I have noted that low ANC or platelets can be often managed by

holding and restarting drug (even several times) until the marrow

begins to convert to producing normal cells.

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Guest guest

Hi Eva and Marcos,

The white count consists of the total number of white cells in the

differential (neutrophils, lymphocytes, monocytes, eosinophils and

basophils) all added together. So given the differential numbers

listed below, they add up to 2.8 which is consistent with the 2.8

listed as the WBC. In this case, the differential is listed in

absolute numbers (as opposed to percentages which I think is what

threw you off Marcos?).

Since the ANC here is already calculated by the lab (0.9) there's no

need to do any further calculations but on some lab reports, they

only list the neutrophil percentage so you need to do the math to

figure out what the absolute count is. The formula is WBC x

Neutrophil percentage = ANC

Ideally, they want to see your ANC above 1.0 so 0.9 is barely below

that. Most doctors are much more willing to see the ANC drop

slightly below that though, more so than they were in previous years

because they realize that low counts are pretty much to be expected

in the early days of treatment and it doesn't pose as much of a risk

as they once feared.

I don't see how Sprycel would be any different in terms of inducing

neutropenia (low ANC) so I'm not sure why that option is even being

discussed at this early point.

Incidentally, it is far better to interrupt treatment and wait for

counts to recover than to reduce the dosage because there is a chance

that you could induce resistance if a sub-optimal dose is given so

don't worry about taking a Gleevec break Eva, this is the standard

way of treating low counts.

Tracey

>

> >

> >

> > From: Eva

> > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:42 PM

> > KTTWEETY@... <KTTWEETY%40sbcglobal.net>

> > Subject: Re: ANC ! ! !

> >

> > Hi , I am 52 yrs old. My doc told me than my Neutrophils were

0.9 , told me

> > to stop taking Gleevec and that I was to come back in one week

and if my

> > levels weren't better than I would probably have to go on

Sprycel. I was

> > alarmed. She was so matter of fact . My husband was with me for

the first

> > time and he was mad , there was no discussing any other options

she just

> > kept on saying , " I don't think so " We asked if I could just take

half of my

> > Gleevec and she said No , I don't think so . I was doing really

well. I

> > wasn't have any side effects anymore and I was starting to feel

like myself

> > again. I was finally feeling relaxed and was not feeling like I

was going to

> > die anymore. I go back this Wednesday we will see what she says.

Thanks for

> > your input. Eva

> >

> > LKCS 2.8

> > HGB 123

> > HCT 0.355

> >

> > MCV 105.0

> > Neutrophils 0.9

> > Lymphocytes 1.5

> > Monocytes 0.3

> > Eosinophils 0.09

> > Basophils 0.01

> > LD 681

> >

> > From: IAintFinishedYet

> > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:32 PM

> > Eva

> > Subject: ANC ! ! !

> >

> > Hey Sister Survivor. . .

> > I don't know your age off-hand, however; I do know that I had

very low ANC

> > counts after diagnosis. So low, that when my daughter took me to

a hospital

> > in another county, my boy~~Doctor; wanting access to the

hospital; told me

> > to be admitted or I would die if I didn't let them admit me from

the low ANC

> > count.

> > The fact that it was over 40+ miles away; I left against medical

advise and

> > went to my hospital. I ended up firing this doctor for not giving

my pain

> > medication to me while he was oncall for 2 days. Stating that my

pain wasn't

> > caused by my Cancer and he wasn't giving me narcotics.

> > Back to the subject, I didn't have a 2nd or 3rd generation

medication to

> > take then and I am now in my 5th year as a Survivor. I know that

middle-age

> > survivors with other Chronic health issues, like myself; aren't

doing very

> > well on Sprycel, etc. for longevity, our gold~~Gleevec is the

medication for

> > us. Sprycel causes Pleural Effusion, Heart issues, etc., It is

for patients

> > who fail or become intolerant to our Gold. . .not as an either/or

> > medication. Though some Physicians are prescribing it initially.

Please get

> > all information before you switch, because some Survivors haven't

been able

> > to go back to Gleevec after being on Sprycel., and are having

Lung & Heart

> > issues. I am not saying this to alarm you, I want you to educate

yourself,

> > before proceeding to Sprycel. A low ANC count doesn't mean you

have failed

> > Gleevec therapy . . . I was hospitalied 3xs with low ANC after

diagnosis . .

> > .

> > I AM A SURVIVOR. . .I AIN'T FINISHED YET ! ! !

> > Remember also, that the H/O~~Hematologists/Oncologists are

learning about

> > our disease through us, we are the 1st Survivors~~Pioneers of our

disease.

> > We cannot let them make Guinea Pigs out of us. . .we must remain

informed

> > and educated Pioneers/Warriors for future Survivors. They look at

each of us

> > as a Statistic. . .I consider each of us an Individual and we

must be

> > active, informed, and educated in our treatment for our Survival.

I

> > personally don't want to lose another Brother or Sister Survivor

who has let

> > his/her Doctor use as a Guinea Pig without knowing ALL the pros

and cons. I

> > have seen enough of that since my diagnosis in 2003 and the

morbid mortality

> > I was given at that time.

> > This is FYI~~my 2 cents only. I am not Doctor, never portrayed

one on TV,

> > nor do I aspire to be a Physician in another life.

> > Take care, I have you in my prayers. . . " K "

> >

> > " K "

> > " I AIN'T FINISHED YET " !!!

> >

> >

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Guest guest

Hello im dante! just need to ask you guys qustion i got similiar result like

his.. can u find out if mine is good or bad? heres the result:

WBC: 6.69   RBC:4.99  Hgb: 13.9*L  Hct: 41.1  MCV: 82.4  MCH: 27.9*L   MCHC:

33.8  RDW: 15.2*H  Platelets: 185 MVP: 9.9  Neut %: 56.4  Lymph %: 36.6  Mono %:

5.7  Eo %:1.2  Baso %: 0.1  Neut #-ABS: 3.77  Lymph #-ABS: 2.45  Mono #-ABS:

0.38   Eo # -ABS:0.08  Baso #-ABS: 0.01  Please let me know if should worry..

Thanks!

From: <timothyfarley16@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] Fw: ANC ! ! !

Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 11:46 AM

>

> Hi Eva,

> Are these numbers your test results ? I thought the differential

numbers :

> Neutrophils 0.9

> Lymphocytes 1.5

> Monocytes 0.3

> Eosinophils 0.09

> Basophils 0.01

>

> should sum to 1 (or close), are you sure you typed it right ? I am

guessing

> the 1.5 is 0.15, but still it doesn't add up to 1. From what I am

reading

> you white cell count is 2.8 and the Neutrophils 90%, that's more

Absolute

> Neutrophil Count (ANC) than what I have ! It is way above 1, it's

2.9*0.9 =

> 2.52. My other guess is that you Neutrophils are around 45% (0.45)

and then

> the ANC is about 1.3. Tracey, can you take a look at these numbers ?

> Marcos.

>

Eva.

Marcos is on the right track. This is from the automated lab report

combining the frequency of the cells (a %) with the total white blood

cell count.

Your WBC is 2.8 (x10e3/ul) or 2,800 WBC per microliter of blood.

Normal range is 5-11 (5,000 - 11,000). The key number is the ANC

(Absolute Neutrophil Count) is 0.9 which equals 900 per microliter.

Any number below 1000 calls for holding the drug. The ANC should

start to rise and the drug can be restarted at a later date.

Available options are hold Gleevec until the ANC count rises. The

drug can be restarted at a later date at the orignal dose or even a

lower one. Another option is to switch to the second generation

drugs like Sprycel or Tasigna. However, there is a chance that the

ANC may drop again with any of these options.

I have noted that low ANC or platelets can be often managed by

holding and restarting drug (even several times) until the marrow

begins to convert to producing normal cells.

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Guest guest

Hi Dante,

You have absolultely perfect counts. Looking at these counts, no one

would know you ever had CML so please don't worry about anything,

everything here is fine.

Tracey

> >

> > Hi Eva,

> > Are these numbers your test results ? I thought the differential

> numbers :

> > Neutrophils 0.9

> > Lymphocytes 1.5

> > Monocytes 0.3

> > Eosinophils 0.09

> > Basophils 0.01

> >

> > should sum to 1 (or close), are you sure you typed it right ? I

am

> guessing

> > the 1.5 is 0.15, but still it doesn't add up to 1. From what I am

> reading

> > you white cell count is 2.8 and the Neutrophils 90%, that's more

> Absolute

> > Neutrophil Count (ANC) than what I have ! It is way above 1, it's

> 2.9*0.9 =

> > 2.52. My other guess is that you Neutrophils are around 45%

(0.45)

> and then

> > the ANC is about 1.3. Tracey, can you take a look at these

numbers ?

> > Marcos.

> >

>

> Eva.

>

> Marcos is on the right track. This is from the automated lab report

> combining the frequency of the cells (a %) with the total white

blood

> cell count.

>

> Your WBC is 2.8 (x10e3/ul) or 2,800 WBC per microliter of blood.

> Normal range is 5-11 (5,000 - 11,000). The key number is the ANC

> (Absolute Neutrophil Count) is 0.9 which equals 900 per microliter.

> Any number below 1000 calls for holding the drug. The ANC should

> start to rise and the drug can be restarted at a later date.

>

> Available options are hold Gleevec until the ANC count rises. The

> drug can be restarted at a later date at the orignal dose or even a

> lower one. Another option is to switch to the second generation

> drugs like Sprycel or Tasigna. However, there is a chance that the

> ANC may drop again with any of these options.

>

> I have noted that low ANC or platelets can be often managed by

> holding and restarting drug (even several times) until the marrow

> begins to convert to producing normal cells.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Hi Eva,

I just want to let you know how Dr. Kantarjian of MD handled

this situation with me many years ago when I started Gleevec. I too

quickly became neutropenic with an anc of .9. I was on a trial so all

my labs were being sent to MDACC. When they got the result of .9 they

called me and told me I would need to stop the drug. I did that but

just a couple days later I went to Houston for my checkup with Dr. K.

My anc was still low. He told me that since I was in an extended

Phase II trial I was not critical to the statistics and he said-- " go

back on the drug and don't get a cbc for 6 week--that way you won't

have to go off the drug and you will do better in the long run. " He

was sure my anc would recover and he was right. You can't make

progress when you're not on treatment. I never took another break

from Gleevec. I also didn't get sick even though at one point my anc

did go to .6 and I was around a lot of sick people. It never goes

that low anymore so this is usually a temporary thing and means you

are responding well to Gleevec. I don't see how going on Sprycel

would be a solution--I'm sure that drug would knock your anc just as

low if not lower.

I just felt I should let you know how one cml expert handled this

situation. He felt it more important to get into remission than to

keep the anc above 1. Maybe a doctor who has seen many many cml

patients can be more comfortable breaking the rules.

Best wishes,

Dorothy

On Jun 18, 2008, at 9:19 AM, Eva wrote:

>

>

> From: Eva

> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:42 PM

> KTTWEETY@...

> Subject: Re: ANC ! ! !

>

> Hi , I am 52 yrs old. My doc told me than my Neutrophils were 0.9 ,

> told me to stop taking Gleevec and that I was to come back in one

> week and if my levels weren't better than I would probably have to

> go on Sprycel. I was alarmed. She was so matter of fact . My husband

> was with me for the first time and he was mad , there was no

> discussing any other options she just kept on saying , " I don't think

> so " We asked if I could just take half of my Gleevec and she said

> No , I don't think so . I was doing really well. I wasn't have any

> side effects anymore and I was starting to feel like myself again. I

> was finally feeling relaxed and was not feeling like I was going to

> die anymore. I go back this Wednesday we will see what she says.

> Thanks for your input. Eva

>

> LKCS 2.8

> HGB 123

> HCT 0.355

>

> MCV 105.0

> Neutrophils 0.9

> Lymphocytes 1.5

> Monocytes 0.3

> Eosinophils 0.09

> Basophils 0.01

> LD 681

>

> From: IAintFinishedYet

> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:32 PM

> Eva

> Subject: ANC ! ! !

>

> Hey Sister Survivor. . .

> I don't know your age off-hand, however; I do know that I had very

> low ANC counts after diagnosis. So low, that when my daughter took

> me to a hospital in another county, my boy~~Doctor; wanting access

> to the hospital; told me to be admitted or I would die if I didn't

> let them admit me from the low ANC count.

> The fact that it was over 40+ miles away; I left against medical

> advise and went to my hospital. I ended up firing this doctor for

> not giving my pain medication to me while he was oncall for 2 days.

> Stating that my pain wasn't caused by my Cancer and he wasn't giving

> me narcotics.

> Back to the subject, I didn't have a 2nd or 3rd generation

> medication to take then and I am now in my 5th year as a Survivor. I

> know that middle-age survivors with other Chronic health issues,

> like myself; aren't doing very well on Sprycel, etc. for longevity,

> our gold~~Gleevec is the medication for us. Sprycel causes Pleural

> Effusion, Heart issues, etc., It is for patients who fail or become

> intolerant to our Gold. . .not as an either/or medication. Though

> some Physicians are prescribing it initially. Please get all

> information before you switch, because some Survivors haven't been

> able to go back to Gleevec after being on Sprycel., and are having

> Lung & Heart issues. I am not saying this to alarm you, I want you

> to educate yourself, before proceeding to Sprycel. A low ANC count

> doesn't mean you have failed Gleevec therapy . . . I was hospitalied

> 3xs with low ANC after diagnosis . . .

> I AM A SURVIVOR. . .I AIN'T FINISHED YET ! ! !

> Remember also, that the H/O~~Hematologists/Oncologists are learning

> about our disease through us, we are the 1st Survivors~~Pioneers of

> our disease. We cannot let them make Guinea Pigs out of us. . .we

> must remain informed and educated Pioneers/Warriors for future

> Survivors. They look at each of us as a Statistic. . .I consider

> each of us an Individual and we must be active, informed, and

> educated in our treatment for our Survival. I personally don't want

> to lose another Brother or Sister Survivor who has let his/her

> Doctor use as a Guinea Pig without knowing ALL the pros and cons. I

> have seen enough of that since my diagnosis in 2003 and the morbid

> mortality I was given at that time.

> This is FYI~~my 2 cents only. I am not Doctor, never portrayed one

> on TV, nor do I aspire to be a Physician in another life.

> Take care, I have you in my prayers. . . " K "

>

> " K "

> " I AIN'T FINISHED YET " !!!

>

>

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Hello Eva,

Name here is Skip,  I would not worry about taking a break from Gleevec, I am on

Dasatnib

right now, my ANC is around .6 give or take a few.  I have been down to 3and

half and never came off any drugs,  ANC that is low mans you may be at risk for

infections, but if you wash hands and keep a three foot space around you at all

time the risk at .9 is low.

I would do as Barb suggested and get another opinion from say Dr. Druker.

At this time I have been on 5 different drugs for CML and never did I come off

any of them for low ANC or for that matter low platlets or Hgb..

but Barbe gave good advice..

SkipD

DX'ed 30++++ years ago

From: Eva <evaob365@...>

Subject: [ ] Fw: ANC ! ! !

Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 10:19 AM

From: Eva

Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:42 PM

KTTWEETYsbcglobal (DOT) net

Subject: Re: ANC ! ! !

Hi , I am 52 yrs old. My doc told me than my Neutrophils were 0.9 , told me to

stop taking Gleevec and that I was to come back in one week and if my levels

weren't better than I would probably have to go on Sprycel. I was alarmed. She

was so matter of fact . My husband was with me for the first time and he was mad

, there was no discussing any other options she just kept on saying , " I don't

think so " We asked if I could just take half of my Gleevec and she said No , I

don't think so . I was doing really well. I wasn't have any side effects anymore

and I was starting to feel like myself again. I was finally feeling relaxed and

was not feeling like I was going to die anymore. I go back this Wednesday we

will see what she says. Thanks for your input. Eva

LKCS 2.8

HGB 123

HCT 0.355

MCV 105.0

Neutrophils 0.9

Lymphocytes 1.5

Monocytes 0.3

Eosinophils 0.09

Basophils 0.01

LD 681

From: IAintFinishedYet

Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:32 PM

Eva

Subject: ANC ! ! !

Hey Sister Survivor. . .

I don't know your age off-hand, however; I do know that I had very low ANC

counts after diagnosis. So low, that when my daughter took me to a hospital in

another county, my boy~~Doctor; wanting access to the hospital; told me to be

admitted or I would die if I didn't let them admit me from the low ANC count.

The fact that it was over 40+ miles away; I left against medical advise and went

to my hospital. I ended up firing this doctor for not giving my pain medication

to me while he was oncall for 2 days. Stating that my pain wasn't caused by my

Cancer and he wasn't giving me narcotics.

Back to the subject, I didn't have a 2nd or 3rd generation medication to take

then and I am now in my 5th year as a Survivor. I know that middle-age survivors

with other Chronic health issues, like myself; aren't doing very well on

Sprycel, etc. for longevity, our gold~~Gleevec is the medication for us. Sprycel

causes Pleural Effusion, Heart issues, etc., It is for patients who fail or

become intolerant to our Gold. . .not as an either/or medication. Though some

Physicians are prescribing it initially. Please get all information before you

switch, because some Survivors haven't been able to go back to Gleevec after

being on Sprycel., and are having Lung & Heart issues. I am not saying this to

alarm you, I want you to educate yourself, before proceeding to Sprycel. A low

ANC count doesn't mean you have failed Gleevec therapy . . . I was hospitalied

3xs with low ANC after diagnosis . . .

I AM A SURVIVOR. . .I AIN'T FINISHED YET ! ! !

Remember also, that the H/O~~Hematologists/ Oncologists are learning about our

disease through us, we are the 1st Survivors~~Pioneers of our disease. We cannot

let them make Guinea Pigs out of us. . .we must remain informed and educated

Pioneers/Warriors for future Survivors. They look at each of us as a Statistic.

.. .I consider each of us an Individual and we must be active, informed, and

educated in our treatment for our Survival. I personally don't want to lose

another Brother or Sister Survivor who has let his/her Doctor use as a Guinea

Pig without knowing ALL the pros and cons. I have seen enough of that since my

diagnosis in 2003 and the morbid mortality I was given at that time.

This is FYI~~my 2 cents only. I am not Doctor, never portrayed one on TV, nor do

I aspire to be a Physician in another life.

Take care, I have you in my prayers. . . " K "

" K "

" I AIN'T FINISHED YET " !!!

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Guest guest

On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Tracey <traceyincanada@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Eva and Marcos,

>

> The white count consists of the total number of white cells in the

> differential (neutrophils, lymphocytes, monocytes, eosinophils and

> basophils) all added together. So given the differential numbers

> listed below, they add up to 2.8 which is consistent with the 2.8

> listed as the WBC. In this case, the differential is listed in

> absolute numbers (as opposed to percentages which I think is what

> threw you off Marcos?).

Yeah, mines are given in % (Kaiser, Hosp. Saint Louis in Paris, and

Stanford). I second Tracey and Tim, thanks for clarifying things for

my fogged brain, I should have looked at the sum and made the

connection to the WBC number (gleevec's not to blame, just a week end

of diving). By the way when I started to be in remission my first dr

asked me to get to 200mg/day, what I did for a couple of weeks until I

start reading more and being more critical. I changed dr and got back

to 400.

Marcos.

>

> Since the ANC here is already calculated by the lab (0.9) there's no

> need to do any further calculations but on some lab reports, they

> only list the neutrophil percentage so you need to do the math to

> figure out what the absolute count is. The formula is WBC x

> Neutrophil percentage = ANC

>

> Ideally, they want to see your ANC above 1.0 so 0.9 is barely below

> that. Most doctors are much more willing to see the ANC drop

> slightly below that though, more so than they were in previous years

> because they realize that low counts are pretty much to be expected

> in the early days of treatment and it doesn't pose as much of a risk

> as they once feared.

>

> I don't see how Sprycel would be any different in terms of inducing

> neutropenia (low ANC) so I'm not sure why that option is even being

> discussed at this early point.

>

> Incidentally, it is far better to interrupt treatment and wait for

> counts to recover than to reduce the dosage because there is a chance

> that you could induce resistance if a sub-optimal dose is given so

> don't worry about taking a Gleevec break Eva, this is the standard

> way of treating low counts.

>

> Tracey

>

>

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: Eva

> > > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:42 PM

> > > KTTWEETY@... <KTTWEETY%40sbcglobal.net>

> > > Subject: Re: ANC ! ! !

> > >

> > > Hi , I am 52 yrs old. My doc told me than my Neutrophils were

> 0.9 , told me

> > > to stop taking Gleevec and that I was to come back in one week

> and if my

> > > levels weren't better than I would probably have to go on

> Sprycel. I was

> > > alarmed. She was so matter of fact . My husband was with me for

> the first

> > > time and he was mad , there was no discussing any other options

> she just

> > > kept on saying , " I don't think so " We asked if I could just take

> half of my

> > > Gleevec and she said No , I don't think so . I was doing really

> well. I

> > > wasn't have any side effects anymore and I was starting to feel

> like myself

> > > again. I was finally feeling relaxed and was not feeling like I

> was going to

> > > die anymore. I go back this Wednesday we will see what she says.

> Thanks for

> > > your input. Eva

> > >

> > > LKCS 2.8

> > > HGB 123

> > > HCT 0.355

> > >

> > > MCV 105.0

> > > Neutrophils 0.9

> > > Lymphocytes 1.5

> > > Monocytes 0.3

> > > Eosinophils 0.09

> > > Basophils 0.01

> > > LD 681

> > >

> > > From: IAintFinishedYet

> > > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:32 PM

> > > Eva

> > > Subject: ANC ! ! !

> > >

> > > Hey Sister Survivor. . .

> > > I don't know your age off-hand, however; I do know that I had

> very low ANC

> > > counts after diagnosis. So low, that when my daughter took me to

> a hospital

> > > in another county, my boy~~Doctor; wanting access to the

> hospital; told me

> > > to be admitted or I would die if I didn't let them admit me from

> the low ANC

> > > count.

> > > The fact that it was over 40+ miles away; I left against medical

> advise and

> > > went to my hospital. I ended up firing this doctor for not giving

> my pain

> > > medication to me while he was oncall for 2 days. Stating that my

> pain wasn't

> > > caused by my Cancer and he wasn't giving me narcotics.

> > > Back to the subject, I didn't have a 2nd or 3rd generation

> medication to

> > > take then and I am now in my 5th year as a Survivor. I know that

> middle-age

> > > survivors with other Chronic health issues, like myself; aren't

> doing very

> > > well on Sprycel, etc. for longevity, our gold~~Gleevec is the

> medication for

> > > us. Sprycel causes Pleural Effusion, Heart issues, etc., It is

> for patients

> > > who fail or become intolerant to our Gold. . .not as an either/or

> > > medication. Though some Physicians are prescribing it initially.

> Please get

> > > all information before you switch, because some Survivors haven't

> been able

> > > to go back to Gleevec after being on Sprycel., and are having

> Lung & Heart

> > > issues. I am not saying this to alarm you, I want you to educate

> yourself,

> > > before proceeding to Sprycel. A low ANC count doesn't mean you

> have failed

> > > Gleevec therapy . . . I was hospitalied 3xs with low ANC after

> diagnosis . .

> > > .

> > > I AM A SURVIVOR. . .I AIN'T FINISHED YET ! ! !

> > > Remember also, that the H/O~~Hematologists/Oncologists are

> learning about

> > > our disease through us, we are the 1st Survivors~~Pioneers of our

> disease.

> > > We cannot let them make Guinea Pigs out of us. . .we must remain

> informed

> > > and educated Pioneers/Warriors for future Survivors. They look at

> each of us

> > > as a Statistic. . .I consider each of us an Individual and we

> must be

> > > active, informed, and educated in our treatment for our Survival.

> I

> > > personally don't want to lose another Brother or Sister Survivor

> who has let

> > > his/her Doctor use as a Guinea Pig without knowing ALL the pros

> and cons. I

> > > have seen enough of that since my diagnosis in 2003 and the

> morbid mortality

> > > I was given at that time.

> > > This is FYI~~my 2 cents only. I am not Doctor, never portrayed

> one on TV,

> > > nor do I aspire to be a Physician in another life.

> > > Take care, I have you in my prayers. . . " K "

> > >

> > > " K "

> > > " I AIN'T FINISHED YET " !!!

> > >

> > >

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Thanks everyone . Just got home and my onc says I should not take the Gleevec

for another week . My stats are:

LKCS 3.4

HGB 128

HCT 0.371

MCV 105.0

Neutrophils 1.1

Lymphocytes 1.7

Monocytes 0.5

Eosinophils 0.11

Basophils 0.01

LD 668

She says that if my Neutrophils do not come up more and she believes they will

then I will have to go and see the head guy at Princess Margaret hospital in

Toronto , I cant remember his name and he will help decide what the next step

would be, Maybe Sprycel. She did alleviate some of my fears...not as many as you

guys but I do feel better now . Thank you so much . Eva

From: Skip Duffie

Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:31 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Fw: ANC ! ! !

Hello Eva,

Name here is Skip, I would not worry about taking a break from Gleevec, I am on

Dasatnib

right now, my ANC is around .6 give or take a few. I have been down to 3and

half and never came off any drugs, ANC that is low mans you may be at risk for

infections, but if you wash hands and keep a three foot space around you at all

time the risk at .9 is low.

I would do as Barb suggested and get another opinion from say Dr. Druker.

At this time I have been on 5 different drugs for CML and never did I come off

any of them for low ANC or for that matter low platlets or Hgb..

but Barbe gave good advice..

SkipD

DX'ed 30++++ years ago

From: Eva <evaob365@...>

Subject: [ ] Fw: ANC ! ! !

Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 10:19 AM

From: Eva

Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:42 PM

KTTWEETYsbcglobal (DOT) net

Subject: Re: ANC ! ! !

Hi , I am 52 yrs old. My doc told me than my Neutrophils were 0.9 , told me to

stop taking Gleevec and that I was to come back in one week and if my levels

weren't better than I would probably have to go on Sprycel. I was alarmed. She

was so matter of fact . My husband was with me for the first time and he was mad

, there was no discussing any other options she just kept on saying , " I don't

think so " We asked if I could just take half of my Gleevec and she said No , I

don't think so . I was doing really well. I wasn't have any side effects anymore

and I was starting to feel like myself again. I was finally feeling relaxed and

was not feeling like I was going to die anymore. I go back this Wednesday we

will see what she says. Thanks for your input. Eva

LKCS 2.8

HGB 123

HCT 0.355

MCV 105.0

Neutrophils 0.9

Lymphocytes 1.5

Monocytes 0.3

Eosinophils 0.09

Basophils 0.01

LD 681

From: IAintFinishedYet

Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:32 PM

Eva

Subject: ANC ! ! !

Hey Sister Survivor. . .

I don't know your age off-hand, however; I do know that I had very low ANC

counts after diagnosis. So low, that when my daughter took me to a hospital in

another county, my boy~~Doctor; wanting access to the hospital; told me to be

admitted or I would die if I didn't let them admit me from the low ANC count.

The fact that it was over 40+ miles away; I left against medical advise and went

to my hospital. I ended up firing this doctor for not giving my pain medication

to me while he was oncall for 2 days. Stating that my pain wasn't caused by my

Cancer and he wasn't giving me narcotics.

Back to the subject, I didn't have a 2nd or 3rd generation medication to take

then and I am now in my 5th year as a Survivor. I know that middle-age survivors

with other Chronic health issues, like myself; aren't doing very well on

Sprycel, etc. for longevity, our gold~~Gleevec is the medication for us. Sprycel

causes Pleural Effusion, Heart issues, etc., It is for patients who fail or

become intolerant to our Gold. . .not as an either/or medication. Though some

Physicians are prescribing it initially. Please get all information before you

switch, because some Survivors haven't been able to go back to Gleevec after

being on Sprycel., and are having Lung & Heart issues. I am not saying this to

alarm you, I want you to educate yourself, before proceeding to Sprycel. A low

ANC count doesn't mean you have failed Gleevec therapy . . . I was hospitalied

3xs with low ANC after diagnosis . . .

I AM A SURVIVOR. . .I AIN'T FINISHED YET ! ! !

Remember also, that the H/O~~Hematologists/ Oncologists are learning about our

disease through us, we are the 1st Survivors~~Pioneers of our disease. We cannot

let them make Guinea Pigs out of us. . .we must remain informed and educated

Pioneers/Warriors for future Survivors. They look at each of us as a Statistic.

.. .I consider each of us an Individual and we must be active, informed, and

educated in our treatment for our Survival. I personally don't want to lose

another Brother or Sister Survivor who has let his/her Doctor use as a Guinea

Pig without knowing ALL the pros and cons. I have seen enough of that since my

diagnosis in 2003 and the morbid mortality I was given at that time.

This is FYI~~my 2 cents only. I am not Doctor, never portrayed one on TV, nor do

I aspire to be a Physician in another life.

Take care, I have you in my prayers. . . " K "

" K "

" I AIN'T FINISHED YET " !!!

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Guest guest

Thankyou Dorothy , I am going to print these responses and take them to her.

Take care; Eva

From: Dorothy Emery

Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:24 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Fw: ANC ! ! !

Hi Eva,

I just want to let you know how Dr. Kantarjian of MD handled

this situation with me many years ago when I started Gleevec. I too

quickly became neutropenic with an anc of .9. I was on a trial so all

my labs were being sent to MDACC. When they got the result of .9 they

called me and told me I would need to stop the drug. I did that but

just a couple days later I went to Houston for my checkup with Dr. K.

My anc was still low. He told me that since I was in an extended

Phase II trial I was not critical to the statistics and he said-- " go

back on the drug and don't get a cbc for 6 week--that way you won't

have to go off the drug and you will do better in the long run. " He

was sure my anc would recover and he was right. You can't make

progress when you're not on treatment. I never took another break

from Gleevec. I also didn't get sick even though at one point my anc

did go to .6 and I was around a lot of sick people. It never goes

that low anymore so this is usually a temporary thing and means you

are responding well to Gleevec. I don't see how going on Sprycel

would be a solution--I'm sure that drug would knock your anc just as

low if not lower.

I just felt I should let you know how one cml expert handled this

situation. He felt it more important to get into remission than to

keep the anc above 1. Maybe a doctor who has seen many many cml

patients can be more comfortable breaking the rules.

Best wishes,

Dorothy

On Jun 18, 2008, at 9:19 AM, Eva wrote:

>

>

> From: Eva

> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:42 PM

> KTTWEETY@...

> Subject: Re: ANC ! ! !

>

> Hi , I am 52 yrs old. My doc told me than my Neutrophils were 0.9 ,

> told me to stop taking Gleevec and that I was to come back in one

> week and if my levels weren't better than I would probably have to

> go on Sprycel. I was alarmed. She was so matter of fact . My husband

> was with me for the first time and he was mad , there was no

> discussing any other options she just kept on saying , " I don't think

> so " We asked if I could just take half of my Gleevec and she said

> No , I don't think so . I was doing really well. I wasn't have any

> side effects anymore and I was starting to feel like myself again. I

> was finally feeling relaxed and was not feeling like I was going to

> die anymore. I go back this Wednesday we will see what she says.

> Thanks for your input. Eva

>

> LKCS 2.8

> HGB 123

> HCT 0.355

>

> MCV 105.0

> Neutrophils 0.9

> Lymphocytes 1.5

> Monocytes 0.3

> Eosinophils 0.09

> Basophils 0.01

> LD 681

>

> From: IAintFinishedYet

> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:32 PM

> Eva

> Subject: ANC ! ! !

>

> Hey Sister Survivor. . .

> I don't know your age off-hand, however; I do know that I had very

> low ANC counts after diagnosis. So low, that when my daughter took

> me to a hospital in another county, my boy~~Doctor; wanting access

> to the hospital; told me to be admitted or I would die if I didn't

> let them admit me from the low ANC count.

> The fact that it was over 40+ miles away; I left against medical

> advise and went to my hospital. I ended up firing this doctor for

> not giving my pain medication to me while he was oncall for 2 days.

> Stating that my pain wasn't caused by my Cancer and he wasn't giving

> me narcotics.

> Back to the subject, I didn't have a 2nd or 3rd generation

> medication to take then and I am now in my 5th year as a Survivor. I

> know that middle-age survivors with other Chronic health issues,

> like myself; aren't doing very well on Sprycel, etc. for longevity,

> our gold~~Gleevec is the medication for us. Sprycel causes Pleural

> Effusion, Heart issues, etc., It is for patients who fail or become

> intolerant to our Gold. . .not as an either/or medication. Though

> some Physicians are prescribing it initially. Please get all

> information before you switch, because some Survivors haven't been

> able to go back to Gleevec after being on Sprycel., and are having

> Lung & Heart issues. I am not saying this to alarm you, I want you

> to educate yourself, before proceeding to Sprycel. A low ANC count

> doesn't mean you have failed Gleevec therapy . . . I was hospitalied

> 3xs with low ANC after diagnosis . . .

> I AM A SURVIVOR. . .I AIN'T FINISHED YET ! ! !

> Remember also, that the H/O~~Hematologists/Oncologists are learning

> about our disease through us, we are the 1st Survivors~~Pioneers of

> our disease. We cannot let them make Guinea Pigs out of us. . .we

> must remain informed and educated Pioneers/Warriors for future

> Survivors. They look at each of us as a Statistic. . .I consider

> each of us an Individual and we must be active, informed, and

> educated in our treatment for our Survival. I personally don't want

> to lose another Brother or Sister Survivor who has let his/her

> Doctor use as a Guinea Pig without knowing ALL the pros and cons. I

> have seen enough of that since my diagnosis in 2003 and the morbid

> mortality I was given at that time.

> This is FYI~~my 2 cents only. I am not Doctor, never portrayed one

> on TV, nor do I aspire to be a Physician in another life.

> Take care, I have you in my prayers. . . " K "

>

> " K "

> " I AIN'T FINISHED YET " !!!

>

>

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hi Everyone, Speaking of ANC - well, I've had another interesting day,

starting with labs, and my anc is 0.8.

I have been feeling real crappy for several days, thought it was starting a

new eating program, thought it could be high potassium, as I am taking one every

day now for a week, thought I was coming down with something. So I called my

trial nurse, and given the way I felt, and the two dizzy spells I had yesterday,

she said to go to emergency. This is a new drug and they worry about the effect

on the heart, and my pulse has been from 98 to 117.

So, off I went, they took me right in, did an EKG, labs, chest Xray and a Cat

Scan.....because they do this when someone complains of being dizzy.

I did explain I think I was dizzy because I had forgotten my mid morning

snack, and was on a new eating program, that snack is necessary, and I had

waited to long for lunch. but they said dizzy can mean a brain problem, so the

end result was, are you ready for this?

I am dehydrated - stay overnight and be hydrated, or go home and drink lots

of water.

SO I figure that cost about $5,000.00, to be told to drink more water.

Also, because the ANC is low, I cannot be infused so do not have to go to Ann

Arbor tomorrow. Study nurse also said NO to the Angioplasty I am scheduled for

this coming Monday. Also I have to follow up with my doctor tomorrow.

This is my first experience with low ANC, but also my HGB is only 9.8, wbc is

1.9, pltl258.

So all in all, guess that's why I am dog tired? This dog needs a bone to

nibble on, time for dinner. Everyone have a good night, love, Bobby

ps Eva, should we start a low ANC club? tee hee

Eva <evaob365@...> wrote:

Thankyou Dorothy , I am going to print these responses and take them

to her. Take care; Eva

From: Dorothy Emery

Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:24 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Fw: ANC ! ! !

Hi Eva,

I just want to let you know how Dr. Kantarjian of MD handled

this situation with me many years ago when I started Gleevec. I too

quickly became neutropenic with an anc of .9. I was on a trial so all

my labs were being sent to MDACC. When they got the result of .9 they

called me and told me I would need to stop the drug. I did that but

just a couple days later I went to Houston for my checkup with Dr. K.

My anc was still low. He told me that since I was in an extended

Phase II trial I was not critical to the statistics and he said-- " go

back on the drug and don't get a cbc for 6 week--that way you won't

have to go off the drug and you will do better in the long run. " He

was sure my anc would recover and he was right. You can't make

progress when you're not on treatment. I never took another break

from Gleevec. I also didn't get sick even though at one point my anc

did go to .6 and I was around a lot of sick people. It never goes

that low anymore so this is usually a temporary thing and means you

are responding well to Gleevec. I don't see how going on Sprycel

would be a solution--I'm sure that drug would knock your anc just as

low if not lower.

I just felt I should let you know how one cml expert handled this

situation. He felt it more important to get into remission than to

keep the anc above 1. Maybe a doctor who has seen many many cml

patients can be more comfortable breaking the rules.

Best wishes,

Dorothy

On Jun 18, 2008, at 9:19 AM, Eva wrote:

>

>

> From: Eva

> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:42 PM

> KTTWEETY@...

> Subject: Re: ANC ! ! !

>

> Hi , I am 52 yrs old. My doc told me than my Neutrophils were 0.9 ,

> told me to stop taking Gleevec and that I was to come back in one

> week and if my levels weren't better than I would probably have to

> go on Sprycel. I was alarmed. She was so matter of fact . My husband

> was with me for the first time and he was mad , there was no

> discussing any other options she just kept on saying , " I don't think

> so " We asked if I could just take half of my Gleevec and she said

> No , I don't think so . I was doing really well. I wasn't have any

> side effects anymore and I was starting to feel like myself again. I

> was finally feeling relaxed and was not feeling like I was going to

> die anymore. I go back this Wednesday we will see what she says.

> Thanks for your input. Eva

>

> LKCS 2.8

> HGB 123

> HCT 0.355

>

> MCV 105.0

> Neutrophils 0.9

> Lymphocytes 1.5

> Monocytes 0.3

> Eosinophils 0.09

> Basophils 0.01

> LD 681

>

> From: IAintFinishedYet

> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:32 PM

> Eva

> Subject: ANC ! ! !

>

> Hey Sister Survivor. . .

> I don't know your age off-hand, however; I do know that I had very

> low ANC counts after diagnosis. So low, that when my daughter took

> me to a hospital in another county, my boy~~Doctor; wanting access

> to the hospital; told me to be admitted or I would die if I didn't

> let them admit me from the low ANC count.

> The fact that it was over 40+ miles away; I left against medical

> advise and went to my hospital. I ended up firing this doctor for

> not giving my pain medication to me while he was oncall for 2 days.

> Stating that my pain wasn't caused by my Cancer and he wasn't giving

> me narcotics.

> Back to the subject, I didn't have a 2nd or 3rd generation

> medication to take then and I am now in my 5th year as a Survivor. I

> know that middle-age survivors with other Chronic health issues,

> like myself; aren't doing very well on Sprycel, etc. for longevity,

> our gold~~Gleevec is the medication for us. Sprycel causes Pleural

> Effusion, Heart issues, etc., It is for patients who fail or become

> intolerant to our Gold. . .not as an either/or medication. Though

> some Physicians are prescribing it initially. Please get all

> information before you switch, because some Survivors haven't been

> able to go back to Gleevec after being on Sprycel., and are having

> Lung & Heart issues. I am not saying this to alarm you, I want you

> to educate yourself, before proceeding to Sprycel. A low ANC count

> doesn't mean you have failed Gleevec therapy . . . I was hospitalied

> 3xs with low ANC after diagnosis . . .

> I AM A SURVIVOR. . .I AIN'T FINISHED YET ! ! !

> Remember also, that the H/O~~Hematologists/Oncologists are learning

> about our disease through us, we are the 1st Survivors~~Pioneers of

> our disease. We cannot let them make Guinea Pigs out of us. . .we

> must remain informed and educated Pioneers/Warriors for future

> Survivors. They look at each of us as a Statistic. . .I consider

> each of us an Individual and we must be active, informed, and

> educated in our treatment for our Survival. I personally don't want

> to lose another Brother or Sister Survivor who has let his/her

> Doctor use as a Guinea Pig without knowing ALL the pros and cons. I

> have seen enough of that since my diagnosis in 2003 and the morbid

> mortality I was given at that time.

> This is FYI~~my 2 cents only. I am not Doctor, never portrayed one

> on TV, nor do I aspire to be a Physician in another life.

> Take care, I have you in my prayers. . . " K "

>

> " K "

> " I AIN'T FINISHED YET " !!!

>

>

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Hello again! this Dante .. Thanks you for checking up my result!.. have a

wonderful day!

From: Tracey <traceyincanada@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] Fw: ANC ! ! !

Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 1:00 PM

Hi Dante,

You have absolultely perfect counts. Looking at these counts, no one

would know you ever had CML so please don't worry about anything,

everything here is fine.

Tracey

> >

> > Hi Eva,

> > Are these numbers your test results ? I thought the differential

> numbers :

> > Neutrophils 0.9

> > Lymphocytes 1.5

> > Monocytes 0.3

> > Eosinophils 0.09

> > Basophils 0.01

> >

> > should sum to 1 (or close), are you sure you typed it right ? I

am

> guessing

> > the 1.5 is 0.15, but still it doesn't add up to 1. From what I am

> reading

> > you white cell count is 2.8 and the Neutrophils 90%, that's more

> Absolute

> > Neutrophil Count (ANC) than what I have ! It is way above 1, it's

> 2.9*0.9 =

> > 2.52. My other guess is that you Neutrophils are around 45%

(0.45)

> and then

> > the ANC is about 1.3. Tracey, can you take a look at these

numbers ?

> > Marcos.

> >

>

> Eva.

>

> Marcos is on the right track. This is from the automated lab report

> combining the frequency of the cells (a %) with the total white

blood

> cell count.

>

> Your WBC is 2.8 (x10e3/ul) or 2,800 WBC per microliter of blood.

> Normal range is 5-11 (5,000 - 11,000). The key number is the ANC

> (Absolute Neutrophil Count) is 0.9 which equals 900 per microliter.

> Any number below 1000 calls for holding the drug. The ANC should

> start to rise and the drug can be restarted at a later date.

>

> Available options are hold Gleevec until the ANC count rises. The

> drug can be restarted at a later date at the orignal dose or even a

> lower one. Another option is to switch to the second generation

> drugs like Sprycel or Tasigna. However, there is a chance that the

> ANC may drop again with any of these options.

>

> I have noted that low ANC or platelets can be often managed by

> holding and restarting drug (even several times) until the marrow

> begins to convert to producing normal cells.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Hi Eva,

I think it would be very good for you to see Dr. Lipton at Princess

Margaret. It sounds like your current doctor is not at all experienced

with Gleevec.

Tracey

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Dr. Lipton, Thank you , I couldn't remember his name!! Eva

From: Tracey

Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:31 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Fw: ANC ! ! !

Hi Eva,

I think it would be very good for you to see Dr. Lipton at Princess

Margaret. It sounds like your current doctor is not at all experienced

with Gleevec.

Tracey

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Hey Bobby , we could start a new club but I didn't know I wanted to belong to

this one. LOL I am glad I do now but maybe we could some how start a wave of

good blood results and everyone could jump on and ride the wave to good health.

That is my wish for every one. You are in my prayers. Take care ; Eva

From: ROBERTA DOYLE

Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 7:32 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Fw: ANC ! ! !

Hi Everyone, Speaking of ANC - well, I've had another interesting day, starting

with labs, and my anc is 0.8.

I have been feeling real crappy for several days, thought it was starting a new

eating program, thought it could be high potassium, as I am taking one every day

now for a week, thought I was coming down with something. So I called my trial

nurse, and given the way I felt, and the two dizzy spells I had yesterday, she

said to go to emergency. This is a new drug and they worry about the effect on

the heart, and my pulse has been from 98 to 117.

So, off I went, they took me right in, did an EKG, labs, chest Xray and a Cat

Scan.....because they do this when someone complains of being dizzy.

I did explain I think I was dizzy because I had forgotten my mid morning snack,

and was on a new eating program, that snack is necessary, and I had waited to

long for lunch. but they said dizzy can mean a brain problem, so the end result

was, are you ready for this?

I am dehydrated - stay overnight and be hydrated, or go home and drink lots of

water.

SO I figure that cost about $5,000.00, to be told to drink more water.

Also, because the ANC is low, I cannot be infused so do not have to go to Ann

Arbor tomorrow. Study nurse also said NO to the Angioplasty I am scheduled for

this coming Monday. Also I have to follow up with my doctor tomorrow.

This is my first experience with low ANC, but also my HGB is only 9.8, wbc is

1.9, pltl258.

So all in all, guess that's why I am dog tired? This dog needs a bone to nibble

on, time for dinner. Everyone have a good night, love, Bobby

ps Eva, should we start a low ANC club? tee hee

Eva <evaob365@...> wrote:

Thankyou Dorothy , I am going to print these responses and take them to her.

Take care; Eva

From: Dorothy Emery

Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:24 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Fw: ANC ! ! !

Hi Eva,

I just want to let you know how Dr. Kantarjian of MD handled

this situation with me many years ago when I started Gleevec. I too

quickly became neutropenic with an anc of .9. I was on a trial so all

my labs were being sent to MDACC. When they got the result of .9 they

called me and told me I would need to stop the drug. I did that but

just a couple days later I went to Houston for my checkup with Dr. K.

My anc was still low. He told me that since I was in an extended

Phase II trial I was not critical to the statistics and he said-- " go

back on the drug and don't get a cbc for 6 week--that way you won't

have to go off the drug and you will do better in the long run. " He

was sure my anc would recover and he was right. You can't make

progress when you're not on treatment. I never took another break

from Gleevec. I also didn't get sick even though at one point my anc

did go to .6 and I was around a lot of sick people. It never goes

that low anymore so this is usually a temporary thing and means you

are responding well to Gleevec. I don't see how going on Sprycel

would be a solution--I'm sure that drug would knock your anc just as

low if not lower.

I just felt I should let you know how one cml expert handled this

situation. He felt it more important to get into remission than to

keep the anc above 1. Maybe a doctor who has seen many many cml

patients can be more comfortable breaking the rules.

Best wishes,

Dorothy

On Jun 18, 2008, at 9:19 AM, Eva wrote:

>

>

> From: Eva

> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:42 PM

> KTTWEETY@...

> Subject: Re: ANC ! ! !

>

> Hi , I am 52 yrs old. My doc told me than my Neutrophils were 0.9 ,

> told me to stop taking Gleevec and that I was to come back in one

> week and if my levels weren't better than I would probably have to

> go on Sprycel. I was alarmed. She was so matter of fact . My husband

> was with me for the first time and he was mad , there was no

> discussing any other options she just kept on saying , " I don't think

> so " We asked if I could just take half of my Gleevec and she said

> No , I don't think so . I was doing really well. I wasn't have any

> side effects anymore and I was starting to feel like myself again. I

> was finally feeling relaxed and was not feeling like I was going to

> die anymore. I go back this Wednesday we will see what she says.

> Thanks for your input. Eva

>

> LKCS 2.8

> HGB 123

> HCT 0.355

>

> MCV 105.0

> Neutrophils 0.9

> Lymphocytes 1.5

> Monocytes 0.3

> Eosinophils 0.09

> Basophils 0.01

> LD 681

>

> From: IAintFinishedYet

> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:32 PM

> Eva

> Subject: ANC ! ! !

>

> Hey Sister Survivor. . .

> I don't know your age off-hand, however; I do know that I had very

> low ANC counts after diagnosis. So low, that when my daughter took

> me to a hospital in another county, my boy~~Doctor; wanting access

> to the hospital; told me to be admitted or I would die if I didn't

> let them admit me from the low ANC count.

> The fact that it was over 40+ miles away; I left against medical

> advise and went to my hospital. I ended up firing this doctor for

> not giving my pain medication to me while he was oncall for 2 days.

> Stating that my pain wasn't caused by my Cancer and he wasn't giving

> me narcotics.

> Back to the subject, I didn't have a 2nd or 3rd generation

> medication to take then and I am now in my 5th year as a Survivor. I

> know that middle-age survivors with other Chronic health issues,

> like myself; aren't doing very well on Sprycel, etc. for longevity,

> our gold~~Gleevec is the medication for us. Sprycel causes Pleural

> Effusion, Heart issues, etc., It is for patients who fail or become

> intolerant to our Gold. . .not as an either/or medication. Though

> some Physicians are prescribing it initially. Please get all

> information before you switch, because some Survivors haven't been

> able to go back to Gleevec after being on Sprycel., and are having

> Lung & Heart issues. I am not saying this to alarm you, I want you

> to educate yourself, before proceeding to Sprycel. A low ANC count

> doesn't mean you have failed Gleevec therapy . . . I was hospitalied

> 3xs with low ANC after diagnosis . . .

> I AM A SURVIVOR. . .I AIN'T FINISHED YET ! ! !

> Remember also, that the H/O~~Hematologists/Oncologists are learning

> about our disease through us, we are the 1st Survivors~~Pioneers of

> our disease. We cannot let them make Guinea Pigs out of us. . .we

> must remain informed and educated Pioneers/Warriors for future

> Survivors. They look at each of us as a Statistic. . .I consider

> each of us an Individual and we must be active, informed, and

> educated in our treatment for our Survival. I personally don't want

> to lose another Brother or Sister Survivor who has let his/her

> Doctor use as a Guinea Pig without knowing ALL the pros and cons. I

> have seen enough of that since my diagnosis in 2003 and the morbid

> mortality I was given at that time.

> This is FYI~~my 2 cents only. I am not Doctor, never portrayed one

> on TV, nor do I aspire to be a Physician in another life.

> Take care, I have you in my prayers. . . " K "

>

> " K "

> " I AIN'T FINISHED YET " !!!

>

>

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Hi Eva

Not sure if Dr. Sheridan is still at that hospital, if so I hope you see him.

he was my first CML doc about 34 years ago..

he left here for there ..

about 29 years ago.. I sure missed him ..

good luck.

SkipD

dx'ed 34++++

From: Eva <evaob365hotmail (DOT) com>

Subject: [ ] Fw: ANC ! ! !

groups (DOT) com

Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 10:19 AM

From: Eva

Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:42 PM

KTTWEETYsbcglobal (DOT) net

Subject: Re: ANC ! ! !

Hi , I am 52 yrs old. My doc told me than my Neutrophils were 0.9 , told me to

stop taking Gleevec and that I was to come back in one week and if my levels

weren't better than I would probably have to go on Sprycel. I was alarmed. She

was so matter of fact . My husband was with me for the first time and he was mad

, there was no discussing any other options she just kept on saying , " I don't

think so " We asked if I could just take half of my Gleevec and she said No , I

don't think so . I was doing really well. I wasn't have any side effects anymore

and I was starting to feel like myself again. I was finally feeling relaxed and

was not feeling like I was going to die anymore. I go back this Wednesday we

will see what she says. Thanks for your input. Eva

LKCS 2.8

HGB 123

HCT 0.355

MCV 105.0

Neutrophils 0.9

Lymphocytes 1.5

Monocytes 0.3

Eosinophils 0.09

Basophils 0.01

LD 681

From: IAintFinishedYet

Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:32 PM

Eva

Subject: ANC ! ! !

Hey Sister Survivor. . .

I don't know your age off-hand, however; I do know that I had very low ANC

counts after diagnosis. So low, that when my daughter took me to a hospital in

another county, my boy~~Doctor; wanting access to the hospital; told me to be

admitted or I would die if I didn't let them admit me from the low ANC count.

The fact that it was over 40+ miles away; I left against medical advise and went

to my hospital. I ended up firing this doctor for not giving my pain medication

to me while he was oncall for 2 days. Stating that my pain wasn't caused by my

Cancer and he wasn't giving me narcotics.

Back to the subject, I didn't have a 2nd or 3rd generation medication to take

then and I am now in my 5th year as a Survivor. I know that middle-age survivors

with other Chronic health issues, like myself; aren't doing very well on

Sprycel, etc. for longevity, our gold~~Gleevec is the medication for us. Sprycel

causes Pleural Effusion, Heart issues, etc., It is for patients who fail or

become intolerant to our Gold. . .not as an either/or medication. Though some

Physicians are prescribing it initially. Please get all information before you

switch, because some Survivors haven't been able to go back to Gleevec after

being on Sprycel., and are having Lung & Heart issues. I am not saying this to

alarm you, I want you to educate yourself, before proceeding to Sprycel. A low

ANC count doesn't mean you have failed Gleevec therapy . . . I was hospitalied

3xs with low ANC after diagnosis . . .

I AM A SURVIVOR. . .I AIN'T FINISHED YET ! ! !

Remember also, that the H/O~~Hematologists/ Oncologists are learning about our

disease through us, we are the 1st Survivors~~Pioneers of our disease. We cannot

let them make Guinea Pigs out of us. . .we must remain informed and educated

Pioneers/Warriors for future Survivors. They look at each of us as a Statistic.

.. .I consider each of us an Individual and we must be active, informed, and

educated in our treatment for our Survival. I personally don't want to lose

another Brother or Sister Survivor who has let his/her Doctor use as a Guinea

Pig without knowing ALL the pros and cons. I have seen enough of that since my

diagnosis in 2003 and the morbid mortality I was given at that time.

This is FYI~~my 2 cents only. I am not Doctor, never portrayed one on TV, nor do

I aspire to be a Physician in another life.

Take care, I have you in my prayers. . . " K "

" K "

" I AIN'T FINISHED YET " !!!

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Eva-

As many have pointed out- our docs are learning unless

you are a clinical trial doc- how many of us can they

have as patients. There are probably less than 30,000

cmlers in the US. Maybe if you live in a densly

populated area like LA or in a CML cancer cluster

area but otherwise they will only have a few. Some may

only have one cml patient. Luckily my guy reads the

research. Before they say no to Gleevec just because

of low numbers ask for a second opinion or email one

of the specialists. MY ANC was low -the doc would

look at the numbers look at me and then say- I don't

know why you aren't in the hospital. But I have yet

to have to be admitted. I think with this disease it

can be life or death and so you have to be informed.

Love and Healing

Chi

--- Tracey <traceyincanada@...> wrote:

> Hi Eva and Marcos,

>

> The white count consists of the total number of

> white cells in the

> differential (neutrophils, lymphocytes, monocytes,

> eosinophils and

> basophils) all added together. So given the

> differential numbers

> listed below, they add up to 2.8 which is consistent

> with the 2.8

> listed as the WBC. In this case, the differential

> is listed in

> absolute numbers (as opposed to percentages which I

> think is what

> threw you off Marcos?).

>

> Since the ANC here is already calculated by the lab

> (0.9) there's no

> need to do any further calculations but on some lab

> reports, they

> only list the neutrophil percentage so you need to

> do the math to

> figure out what the absolute count is. The formula

> is WBC x

> Neutrophil percentage = ANC

>

> Ideally, they want to see your ANC above 1.0 so 0.9

> is barely below

> that. Most doctors are much more willing to see the

> ANC drop

> slightly below that though, more so than they were

> in previous years

> because they realize that low counts are pretty much

> to be expected

> in the early days of treatment and it doesn't pose

> as much of a risk

> as they once feared.

>

> I don't see how Sprycel would be any different in

> terms of inducing

> neutropenia (low ANC) so I'm not sure why that

> option is even being

> discussed at this early point.

>

> Incidentally, it is far better to interrupt

> treatment and wait for

> counts to recover than to reduce the dosage because

> there is a chance

> that you could induce resistance if a sub-optimal

> dose is given so

> don't worry about taking a Gleevec break Eva, this

> is the standard

> way of treating low counts.

>

> Tracey

>

>

>

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: Eva

> > > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:42 PM

> > > KTTWEETY@... <KTTWEETY%40sbcglobal.net>

> > > Subject: Re: ANC ! ! !

> > >

> > > Hi , I am 52 yrs old. My doc told me than my

> Neutrophils were

> 0.9 , told me

> > > to stop taking Gleevec and that I was to come

> back in one week

> and if my

> > > levels weren't better than I would probably have

> to go on

> Sprycel. I was

> > > alarmed. She was so matter of fact . My husband

> was with me for

> the first

> > > time and he was mad , there was no discussing

> any other options

> she just

> > > kept on saying , " I don't think so " We asked if I

> could just take

> half of my

> > > Gleevec and she said No , I don't think so . I

> was doing really

> well. I

> > > wasn't have any side effects anymore and I was

> starting to feel

> like myself

> > > again. I was finally feeling relaxed and was not

> feeling like I

> was going to

> > > die anymore. I go back this Wednesday we will

> see what she says.

> Thanks for

> > > your input. Eva

> > >

> > > LKCS 2.8

> > > HGB 123

> > > HCT 0.355

> > >

> > > MCV 105.0

> > > Neutrophils 0.9

> > > Lymphocytes 1.5

> > > Monocytes 0.3

> > > Eosinophils 0.09

> > > Basophils 0.01

> > > LD 681

> > >

> > > From: IAintFinishedYet

> > > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:32 PM

> > > Eva

> > > Subject: ANC ! ! !

> > >

> > > Hey Sister Survivor. . .

> > > I don't know your age off-hand, however; I do

> know that I had

> very low ANC

> > > counts after diagnosis. So low, that when my

> daughter took me to

> a hospital

> > > in another county, my boy~~Doctor; wanting

> access to the

> hospital; told me

> > > to be admitted or I would die if I didn't let

> them admit me from

> the low ANC

> > > count.

> > > The fact that it was over 40+ miles away; I left

> against medical

> advise and

> > > went to my hospital. I ended up firing this

> doctor for not giving

> my pain

> > > medication to me while he was oncall for 2 days.

> Stating that my

> pain wasn't

> > > caused by my Cancer and he wasn't giving me

> narcotics.

> > > Back to the subject, I didn't have a 2nd or 3rd

> generation

> medication to

> > > take then and I am now in my 5th year as a

> Survivor. I know that

> middle-age

> > > survivors with other Chronic health issues, like

> myself; aren't

> doing very

> > > well on Sprycel, etc. for longevity, our

> gold~~Gleevec is the

> medication for

> > > us. Sprycel causes Pleural Effusion, Heart

> issues, etc., It is

> for patients

> > > who fail or become intolerant to our Gold. .

> .not as an either/or

> > > medication. Though some Physicians are

> prescribing it initially.

> Please get

> > > all information before you switch, because some

> Survivors

=== message truncated ===

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Dante even if your counts would drop- my advice

.....don't worry, fight. There are things they can do

to bring up your numbers- shots, transfusions,

medications etc.

Stay strong , my fellow warrior.

Love and Health

Chi

--- Dante Bacani <dantelb@...> wrote:

> Hello im dante! just need to ask you guys qustion i

> got similiar result like his.. can u find out if

> mine is good or bad? heres the result:

> WBC: 6.69   RBC:4.99  Hgb: 13.9*L  Hct: 41.1  MCV:

> 82.4  MCH: 27.9*L   MCHC: 33.8  RDW: 15.2*H 

> Platelets: 185 MVP: 9.9  Neut %: 56.4  Lymph %:

> 36.6  Mono %: 5.7  Eo %:1.2  Baso %: 0.1  Neut

> #-ABS: 3.77  Lymph #-ABS: 2.45  Mono #-ABS: 0.38  

> Eo # -ABS:0.08  Baso #-ABS: 0.01  Please let me know

> if should worry.. Thanks!

>

>

> From: <timothyfarley16@...>

> Subject: Re: [ ] Fw: ANC ! ! !

>

> Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 11:46 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Hi Eva,

> > Are these numbers your test results ? I thought

> the differential

> numbers :

> > Neutrophils 0.9

> > Lymphocytes 1.5

> > Monocytes 0.3

> > Eosinophils 0.09

> > Basophils 0.01

> >

> > should sum to 1 (or close), are you sure you typed

> it right ? I am

> guessing

> > the 1.5 is 0.15, but still it doesn't add up to 1.

> From what I am

> reading

> > you white cell count is 2.8 and the Neutrophils

> 90%, that's more

> Absolute

> > Neutrophil Count (ANC) than what I have ! It is

> way above 1, it's

> 2.9*0.9 =

> > 2.52. My other guess is that you Neutrophils are

> around 45% (0.45)

> and then

> > the ANC is about 1.3. Tracey, can you take a look

> at these numbers ?

> > Marcos.

> >

>

> Eva.

>

> Marcos is on the right track. This is from the

> automated lab report

> combining the frequency of the cells (a %) with the

> total white blood

> cell count.

>

> Your WBC is 2.8 (x10e3/ul) or 2,800 WBC per

> microliter of blood.

> Normal range is 5-11 (5,000 - 11,000). The key

> number is the ANC

> (Absolute Neutrophil Count) is 0.9 which equals 900

> per microliter.

> Any number below 1000 calls for holding the drug.

> The ANC should

> start to rise and the drug can be restarted at a

> later date.

>

> Available options are hold Gleevec until the ANC

> count rises. The

> drug can be restarted at a later date at the orignal

> dose or even a

> lower one. Another option is to switch to the second

> generation

> drugs like Sprycel or Tasigna. However, there is a

> chance that the

> ANC may drop again with any of these options.

>

> I have noted that low ANC or platelets can be often

> managed by

> holding and restarting drug (even several times)

> until the marrow

> begins to convert to producing normal cells.

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