melatonin

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/15/01 10:38:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

nelsoneyes@... writes:

<< said that, it

works well, but be cautious. The more you use it the less effective it

becomes. >>that is not true...

[Guest guest]

Bob,

you say you've been giving melatonin every 4 hours. Melatonin is

part of the circadian sleep cycle and high at night, low during day. I

thought melatonin supplementation was only done at night, that it caused

problems during the day. Was I wrong about this? Do others supplement

melatonin during the day.

Bernie

[Guest guest]

I also give melatonin 4 times a day and Logan's sleep/wake cycle is

back to normal after years of waking at night and being groggy during

the day. I guess since it isn't a setative, it doesn't hurt to give

it during the day.

> Bob,

> you say you've been giving melatonin every 4 hours. Melatonin

is

> part of the circadian sleep cycle and high at night, low during

day. I

> thought melatonin supplementation was only done at night, that it

caused

> problems during the day. Was I wrong about this? Do others

supplement

> melatonin during the day.

> Bernie

[Guest guest]

Bernie,

You are right. Melatonin should only be given at night or you'll throw the

sleep cycle off completely, as seems to be the case here.

Eileen, UK

[Guest guest]

Hi i have a 9 yr old son with aspergers that wants to stay up all night can

i do anything to get him to sleep going nuts !

[ ] re: melatonin

> Bob,

> you say you've been giving melatonin every 4 hours. Melatonin is

> part of the circadian sleep cycle and high at night, low during day. I

> thought melatonin supplementation was only done at night, that it caused

> problems during the day. Was I wrong about this? Do others supplement

> melatonin during the day.

> Bernie

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

--- In @y..., " Hammond " <_K_H@e...>

wrote:

> Hi i have a 9 yr old son with aspergers that wants to stay up all

night can

> i do anything to get him to sleep going nuts !

Enough melatonin an hour before bedtime should do it.

It can take a lot for really toxic kids, too, so start at 3 mg and

work up to 10 or 15 if need be.

If he wakes up too early, you can also use time release melatonin with

the regular kind.

Andy

> ----- Original Message --

[Guest guest]

hi we give my 14 yr old son 3 mg melatonin each night l hr before bedtime.

He is usually asleep within 1-2 hrs after taking it, and sleeps throughout

the night. If we did not give him that, he would be up till at least 3 am.

so it helps us.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/29/01 11:50:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

AndyCutler@... writes:

>

> It can take a lot for really toxic kids, too, so start at 3 mg and

> work up to 10 or 15 if need be. **** isn't 10 or 15 mg a lot?????

>

> If he wakes up too early, you can also use time release melatonin with

> the regular kind.

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

My son had similar period. 5-HTP helped him.

Bernie

[Guest guest]

About a month ago, I started giving my 14 (in 2 weeks!) yr old son

Magnelevures, (magnesium, with glutathion, Taurine, B1, B6 -- powder

form, it tastes good) and from the first night, he slept through the

night, without waking! He used to get up several times a night to go

to the bathroom, or if I was still up, he would wake more too...I was

only using 1/2 a packet (or 1/2 the dose) -- Yesterday, I started

giving 1/2 in the morning and 1/2 at night before bed, to see if it

will help add more calmness and reduce the frustration levels, (in

conjunction with some homeopathic " drainage " to regulate the nervous

system, and circulatory system) -- I'm seeing improvement.

> hi we give my 14 yr old son 3 mg melatonin each night l hr before

bedtime.

> He is usually asleep within 1-2 hrs after taking it, and sleeps

throughout

> the night. If we did not give him that, he would be up till at

least 3 am.

> so it helps us.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Where did you get this product?

Leah

> > hi we give my 14 yr old son 3 mg melatonin each night l hr before

> bedtime.

> > He is usually asleep within 1-2 hrs after taking it, and sleeps

> throughout

> > the night. If we did not give him that, he would be up till at

> least 3 am.

> > so it helps us.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/30/01 1:42:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

cronesway@... writes:

>

>

> About a month ago, I started giving my 14 (in 2 weeks!) yr old son

> Magnelevures, (magnesium, with glutathion, Taurine, B1, B6 -- powder

> form, it tastes good) and from the first night, he slept through the

> night, without waking! He used to get up several times a night to go

> to the bathroom, or if I was still up, he would wake more too...I was

> only using 1/2 a packet (or 1/2 the dose) -- Yesterday, I started

> giving 1/2 in the morning and 1/2 at night before bed, to see if it

> will help add more calmness and reduce the frustration levels, (in

> conjunction with some homeopathic " drainage " to regulate the nervous

> system, and circulatory system) -- I'm seeing improvement.

>

>

, does this contain any melatonin at all? And where can you purchase

it. Can you send me more info on it. You can e-mail me privately, if you

wish to.

Msdai54513@...

[Guest guest]

I have also heard about melatonin giving autistic people nightmares. My

daughter can't, of course, tell me about it, but it would be interesting to

hear more feedback from others. I do feel uncomfortable giving her the

melatonin, since it is a hormone and not really appropriate to give children

(even the people at the hfs said not to), but Dr. Holmes feels its OK. It

also helps her sleep, except during a full moon, when she always wakes up at

about 3:00 a.m. (mavbe because it's so bright?).

yvonne

[Guest guest]

Hi

Melatonin gave my DMIL nightmares.

I take it occasionally with no adverse effects, but it tends to backfire on my

4yo - she is MORE awake after taking it!

Margaret

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/28/01 10:38:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,

yardist@... writes:

> It does make me go to sleep very shortly after taking it. I just couldnt

> stand the nightmares. They were some of the worst ones Id ever had.

My doctor prescribed it for me and explained to me that I would have intense

dreams when I first started taking it. He told me that this would go away

after a little while. Since I don't respond well to melatonin, I don't know

if this is true. Melatonin makes me very restless and unable to get into a

deep sleep even though I've upped my dose to 5 mg. It works incredibly well

on my almost 4 yr. old son with no side effects.

Jo (South Carolina)

Unlocking Autism State Rep. for South Carolina

www.unlockingautism.org

[Guest guest]

Our doctor is against giving melatonin to kids. I

tried it and did not like how it made me feel. I am

giving the kids between 500 to 1000 mg of calcium at

bedtime and they are sleeping about 12 hours at night!

--- Mueller <yardist@...> wrote:

>

> Hi

>

> I am curious if anyone notices their child has

> nightmares when taking

> melatonin.

> I tried it myself a few years back but always had

> some of the most awful

> nightmares.

>

>

>

> --

> With the Creator in mind remain in high spirits.

> May your word bring peace to all of humanity.

> - Sikh Ardas

>

>

>

=====

Always

Ana Brushingham

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi, !

I give both of my children Melatonin (they are 9 and 11), and have for three

years now. They are doing so well on it. I just asked my son how it makes him

feel, and he said, " Like I want to go to sleep, and it gives me good dreams! " I

also remember my daughter breaking into giggles one night when she was sleeping,

so I guess she has good dreams too!

It sure has cured their sleep problems big time. They are both brain injured

from vaccinations, especially my daughter who has been on many anti-seizure meds

through the years that play total havoc with sleep.

I have been taking Ambien for a long time for my own sleep issues (as a result

of not getting much sleep for five years because of my daughters problems with

sleep), and sometimes I would have the nightmares, too. Usually this would

happen if I went back to sleep in the morning after the kids left for school, or

if I ran out and did not have it. I recently have been tapering the Ambien and

taking Melatonin myself. What a difference! I feel so much better, and am

really looking forward to getting off the Ambien once and for all. I think we

all have the Mercury issue (plus a few others possibly), which we are

investigating right now. My daughter definitely does, and my son and I need to

be tested. At least I finally know what we are dealing with.

Cheers!

Re: [ ] melatonin

Our doctor is against giving melatonin to kids. I

tried it and did not like how it made me feel. I am

giving the kids between 500 to 1000 mg of calcium at

bedtime and they are sleeping about 12 hours at night!

--- Mueller <yardist@...> wrote:

>

> Hi

>

> I am curious if anyone notices their child has

> nightmares when taking

> melatonin.

> I tried it myself a few years back but always had

> some of the most awful

> nightmares.

>

>

>

> --

> With the Creator in mind remain in high spirits.

> May your word bring peace to all of humanity.

> - Sikh Ardas

>

>

>

=====

Always

Ana Brushingham

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

nelsoneyes@... wrote:

> I have also heard about melatonin giving autistic people nightmares.

> My

> daughter can't, of course, tell me about it, but it would be

> interesting to

> hear more feedback from others. I do feel uncomfortable giving her the

>

> melatonin, since it is a hormone and not really appropriate to give

> children

> (even the people at the hfs said not to), but Dr. Holmes feels its OK.

> It

> also helps her sleep, except during a full moon, when she always wakes

> up at

> about 3:00 a.m. (mavbe because it's so bright?).

>

> yvonne

I had the nightmares. Im not autistic, though my wife might debate that

issue when Im gardening, on the computer or watching

football.

I do have seasonal affective disorder. When I was in grad school it was

suggested I take melatonin to help regulate my sleep. It COULD have been

grad school+melatonin giving me nightmares but I have heard a few other

people say that have nightmares too.

It does make me go to sleep very shortly after taking it. I just couldnt

stand the nightmares. They were some of the worst ones Id ever had.

--

With the Creator in mind remain in high spirits.

May your word bring peace to all of humanity.

- Sikh Ardas

[Guest guest]

> I have also heard about melatonin giving autistic people nightmares.

My

> daughter can't, of course, tell me about it, but it would be

interesting to

> hear more feedback from others. I do feel uncomfortable giving her

the

> melatonin, since it is a hormone and not really appropriate to give

children

> (even the people at the hfs said not to), but Dr. Holmes feels its

OK. It

> also helps her sleep, except during a full moon, when she always

wakes up at

> about 3:00 a.m. (mavbe because it's so bright?).

The hormones you have to avoid with children are the sex hormones, and

you don't want to use LOTS of glucocorticiods because they eventually

stunt growth. They need the other hormones as much as adults. Lots

of kids do very well on melatonin - Sheldon is one of them and it has

been a miracle for him. He's been getting it for almost 2 years now.

Andy

>

[Guest guest]

yvonne,

Anyone with sleep issues should have a completely dark bedroom, since light

effects the sleep hormones. My middle of

the night-waking stopped when I installed good shades.

K.

[Guest guest]

K,

This may or may not help, but I have been assisting a child in my town who has

been diagnosed with ADD with good results. I applied the over stimulated effects

of my particular form of mercury poisoning (pink disease in infancy) and a good

dose of common sense in this 10 year old's bedroom. I encouraged the parents to

remove primary colours from his room, which was in navy and red. They

re-decorated it in pale mauves, blues and limes. We removed the computer, TV,

electric blanket and electric clock from his room (extra electro magnetic

fields). We then put heavier shades (as suggested already) in his room and we

removed the fluorescent light (contains mercury) and put in a dimmer wattage

bulb in his lighting. I also implemented a " quieter " lead up to his bed time to

" calm " him down. He has no stimulants of soft drinks or junk food after 6pm, but

yogurt and warm milk (sorry this would not help a GCF diet), no TV after 6pm or

excited games. He listens to relaxation music for an hour (outside his room)

before going to bed when he has " quiet time " reading a book etc before bed. He

then has a warm bath (not a shower) for ages, again listening to his " nice "

music. He then says a little positive " mantra " with his family before bed about

" I AM going to have a beautiful peaceful sleep tonight and wake up refreshed and

happy " .

The change in this child, with doing this regime each night for the past two

months, has been so remarkable, even his school teachers want to know " what is

happening " . I have no professional training with this idea, just common sense

and self experience.

Kindest best wishes, Thiele

Founder Pink Disease Support Group Australia.

yvonne,

Anyone with sleep issues should have a completely dark bedroom, since light

effects the sleep hormones. My middle of

the night-waking stopped when I installed good shades.

K.

[Guest guest]

I know that melatonin is not a medication but a hormone that regulates

seratonin levels in the brain. (Is that right?) I know there are people on

this list who are VERY knowledgeable about this stuff. Could someone educate

us? I'm also a little worried about administering a hormone, long term, to a

young child. The people at the HFS, and the directions on the bottle, stress

that it SHOULD NOT be used by children.

Ybvonne

[Guest guest]

Hi just a little note from me - I have been using Melatonin for a year with both

my children infact I occasionally take it myself it works great I would not be

without it - I don't know about long term side effects but I know one kiddie who

has been using it for one year and has now been off it for a few weeks and he is

sleeping just fine.

Also about the effectiveness - Melatonin must be taken with Magnesium just check

that it has this in if it doesn't put 100mg of magnesium with each capsule or

get the Kirkmans Melatonin Plus - that is what we use. Thats all my experience

- someone else may have another idea for you.

Regards

Terri NZ

[ ] MELATONIN

dEAR LISTMATES, mY SON HAS BEEN TAKING MELATONIN FOR SLEEP FOR ABOUT SIX

MONTHS NOW. iT HAS WORKED WONDERS FOR HIM. hOWEVER, i BOUGHT A NEW BOTTLE AND

i AM NOT GETTING ANY RESULTS. cOULD THE BOTTLE BE TOO OLD OR IS HE BECOMING

IMMUNE TO IT? PLEASE LET ME KNOW. ALSO, ARE THERE ANY HARMFUL SIDE EFFECTS FOR

USING THE MEDICATION FOR SO LONG? aLL RESPONSES ARE APPRECIATED. THANK YOU.

[Guest guest]

Kencol,

There is a tete-a-tete between B12 and melatonin regulation, so I've put a

few abstracts on this below, as it may be lack of B12 that is making the

melatonin less effective.

I'm thinking there might have been something that changed since you started

the melatonin that would compromise your son's ability to absorb B12.

Generally, the problem is lack of intrinsic factor, a molecule that helps

the gut take in B12 from food.

Because there are similarities in what has happened to the sulfur chemistry

in AIDS and in autism, I've also put below two articles about the

development of B12 deficiency in AIDS, and how correcting the B12

deficiency reversed AIDS dementia in one patient.

In Wakefield's famous 1998 study, almost all the children with autism they

investigated in that study had elevated methylmalonic acid, which is a

marker of B12 deficiency.

A friend of mine with a teenaged son with autism had suffered with reversed

sleeping patterns for about two years. When he started taking taurine, he

began to sleep at night to everyone's delight and surprise. This was not

what either the mother nor I expected out of taurine, and I have no idea

what mechanism could explain this change. I would not add in taurine at

the same time as B12 supplementation, or you won't be able to figure out

which one helped, but you might try one and then the other, and stick with

whatever seems to work.

Please note METHYLcobalamin is the form of B12 that helped with adjusting

the sleep pattern. CYANOcobalmin is what you usually see in health food

stores or in B12 shots. Jarrow makes a sublingual methylcobalamin, and

other sources can be found via the web by putting " methylcobalamin " in your

browser.

The reason they make sublingual tablets is that if the reason for B12

deficiency is an inability to absorb it in the gut, a sublingual tablet

provides a way to avoid the gut, and get the vitamin directly into the

blood stream.

I hope these readings are helpful.

Pharm Biotechnol 1999;12:493-520 Related Articles, Books

Vitamin B12 transporters.

- GJ, Alpers DH.

C/- Biotech Australia Pty Ltd, Roseville, NSW, Australia.

The uptake of vitamin B12 from the intestine into the circulation is

perhaps the most complex uptake mechanism of all the vitamins, involving no

less than five separate VB12-binding molecules, receptors and transporters.

Each molecule involved in uptake has a separate affinity and specificity

for VB12 as well as a separate cell receptor. Thus VB12 is initially bound

by haptocorrin in the stomach, then by IF in the small intestine. An IF

receptor is then involved in uptake of the IF-VB12 complex by the

intestinal epithelial cell, with the subsequent proteolytic release of VB12

and subsequent binding to TcII. The TcII receptor then transports the

TcII-VB12 complex across the cell, whence it is released into the

circulation. It is surprising, then, that despite its complexity, it has

been possible to harness the vitamin VB12 uptake mechanism to enhance the

oral uptake of peptides, proteins, and nanoparticles.

Publication Types:

* Review

* Review, Academic

PMID: 10742986 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Brain Res 1998 Jun 8;795(1-2):98-104

Methylcobalamin amplifies melatonin-induced circadian phase shifts by

facilitation of melatonin synthesis in the rat pineal gland.

Ikeda M, Asai M, Moriya T, Sagara M, Inoue S, Shibata S.

Advanced Research Center for Human Sciences, Waseda University, Saitama, Japan.

msikeda@...

Effects of methylcobalamin (methyl-B12), a putative drug for treating human

circadian rhythm disorders, on the melatonin-induced circadian phase shifts

were

examined in the rat. An intraperitoneal injection of 1-100 microg/kg melatonin

2-h before the activity onset time (CT 10) induced phase advances of

free-running activity rhythms in a dose-dependent manner (ED50=1.3 microg/kg).

Injection of methyl-B12 (500 microg/kg) prior to melatonin (1 microg/kg)

injection induced larger phase advances than saline preinjected controls, while

the injection of methyl-B12 in combination with saline did not induce a phase

advance. These results indicate amplification of melatonin-induced phase

advances by methyl-B12. Pinealectomy abolished the phase alternating effect of

methyl-B12, suggesting a site of action within the pineal gland. In fact,

methyl-B12 significantly increased the content of melatonin in the pineal

collected 2-h after activity onset (CT 14). In contrast, no difference in

melatonin content was found at CT 10, indicating that the effect of methyl-B12

may be gated after the activity onset time when endogenous melatonin synthesis

is known to increase. These results suggest that methyl-B12 amplifies

melatonin-induced phase advances via an increase in melatonin synthesis during

the early subjective night at a point downstream from the clock regulation.

Copyright 1998 Elsevier Science B.V. All rights reserved.

PMID: 9622603 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Brain Dev 1994 Jan-Feb;16(1):71-6

A school refusal case with biological rhythm disturbance and melatonin therapy.

Tomoda A, Miike T, Uezono K, Kawasaki T.

Department of Child Development, Kumamoto University Medical School, Japan.

An 18-year-old male high school student with school refusal and circadian

rhythm

disturbance is reported. At 17 years of age, he was unable to attend school

because of a reversal of the daily rhythm and a moderate depressive feeling.

Other circadian rhythms, including deep body temperature (DBT), and plasma

melatonin, cortisol and beta-endorphin, also showed quite different or abnormal

curves compared with those in normal controls. He was treated with methyl B12

and melatonin, which normalized the circadian rhythm, i.e. it became entrained

to a 24-h period, and the DBT and hormonal rhythms became closer to normal

patterns. These results suggest that desynchronization of the biorhythms,

particularly the circadian rhythm, may be one of the important causes of school

refusal in Japan, and melatonin and methyl B12 might be useful for treatment of

the condition.

PMID: 8059933 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Dig Dis Sci 1996 Jul;41(7):1398-408 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut

Changes in parietal cell structure and function in HIV disease.

Lake-Bakaar G, Elsakr M, Hagag N, Lyubsky S, Ahuja J, Craddock B,

Steigbigel RT.

Department of Medicine, SUNY Health Science Center at Stony Brook, New

York 11794, USA.

The mechanisms underlying acid secretory failure in patients with HIV

disease are unknown. We evaluated, in a series of preliminary studies,

changes associated with parietal cell structure and function in early and

late HIV disease, in an attempt to elucidate possible underlying

mechanisms. Gastric acid and intrinsic factor secretion, vitamin B12

absorption, and light and electron microscopic evaluation of gastric mucosa

were evaluated in patients with early and late HIV infection (AIDS) and

compared to non-HIV-infected controls. Immunolocalization of HIV-related

antigens in gastric mucosa was also examined. Fasting gastric juice pH and

intrinsic factor (IF) concentration in AIDS and HIV infected subjects were

significantly different from controls (P = 0.012 and P = 0.025,

respectively for pH, and 0.029 and 0.035 for IF; ANOVA LSD test). By

contrast, maximal acid output (MAO) was significantly lower in AIDS, but

not HIV-infected subjects (P = 0.043 and P = 0.322, respectively).

Similarly, Schilling test phases 1 and 2 results were significantly lower

in AIDS, but not HIV-infected subjects. Varying degrees of vacuolar

degeneration of parietal cells were seen on light microscopy. On electron

microscopy (EM), tubulovesicles were reduced and intracellular canaliculi

dilated with striking loss of microvilli. Immunofluorescent staining with

antibodies to gp120, gp41, p24, and p17 demonstrated positive punctate

signals in the cytoplasm of gastric glands, which includes parietal cells.

Immunogold EM with anti-gp120, localized predominantly to the microvilli of

intracellular canaliculi in parietal cells. Abnormal secretory function of

parietal cells occurs early in HIV disease, affects acid as well as

intrinsic factor secretion, and is associated with morphological changes in

the acid secretory apparatus.

PMID: 8689917 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

J Intern Med 1993 Jun;233(6):495-7 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut

Reversal of apparent AIDS dementia complex following treatment with

vitamin B12.

Herzlich BC, Schiano TD.

Department of Medicine, Maimonides Medical Center, Brooklyn, New York.

The human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)-associated dementia complex is

characterized by difficulties in concentration and memory followed by

apathy, social withdrawal and motor dysfunction. Decreased serum vitamin

B12 levels occur in up to 20% of patients with acquired immune deficiency

syndrome (AIDS) and may adversely contribute to the haematologic and

neurologic dysfunction which is frequently attributed to the human

immunodeficiency virus. We describe a patient with AIDS who presented with

an apparent advanced AIDS dementia complex. There was an associated low

serum vitamin B12 resulting from malabsorption due to low gastric intrinsic

factor secretion. Following treatment with vitamin B12 the symptoms

resolved over a 2-month period. We believe that the AIDS dementia complex

represented a reversible adverse synergistic interaction between the human

immunodeficiency virus and vitamin B12 deficiency.

PMID: 8501420 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

At 09:45 PM 2/19/2002 -0600, you wrote:

>dEAR LISTMATES, mY SON HAS BEEN TAKING MELATONIN FOR SLEEP FOR ABOUT SIX

>MONTHS NOW. iT HAS WORKED WONDERS FOR HIM. hOWEVER, i BOUGHT A NEW

>BOTTLE AND i AM NOT GETTING ANY RESULTS. cOULD THE BOTTLE BE TOO OLD OR

>IS HE BECOMING IMMUNE TO IT? PLEASE LET ME KNOW. ALSO, ARE THERE ANY

>HARMFUL SIDE EFFECTS FOR USING THE MEDICATION FOR SO LONG? aLL RESPONSES

>ARE APPRECIATED. THANK YOU.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

An important issue to remember, especially with Melatonin, because

everyone (manufacturers) is trying to jump on its bandwagon is, brands

very considerably in their quality and even among batches from the same

manufacturer. Save yourself a lot of trouble and use Kirkman.

[ ] MELATONIN

dEAR LISTMATES, mY SON HAS BEEN TAKING MELATONIN FOR SLEEP FOR ABOUT

SIX MONTHS NOW. iT HAS WORKED WONDERS FOR HIM. hOWEVER, i BOUGHT A

NEW BOTTLE AND i AM NOT GETTING ANY RESULTS. cOULD THE BOTTLE BE TOO

OLD OR IS HE BECOMING IMMUNE TO IT? PLEASE LET ME KNOW. ALSO, ARE

THERE ANY HARMFUL SIDE EFFECTS FOR USING THE MEDICATION FOR SO LONG?

aLL RESPONSES ARE APPRECIATED. THANK YOU.