Re: To kathy R/social challenges

March 5, 2000

> From: Roman <chrisroman@...>

> You wrote:

> Her OCD from onset has been a series of complete non-issues that rocket to

> hugh proportions out of a casual remark or something that happened to

> someone else.

>

> I am quite curious about this one. Have others had this experience? I

thought that we didn't need

> to worry about OCDers being exposed to each other's experiences with O/Cs

as you couldn't " catch "

> new symtoms from others. Kel's experience makes it sound as if you can?

Perhaps there is a

> distinction between a general vulnerability to new O/Cs and picking up a

new one from someone else

> with OCD?

Kel's OCD started abruptly and her initial obsession, of cutting out her

eyes/cutting off her legs with a sharp knife, echoed surgeries two of her

uncles had recently undergone--and we had visited these uncles a month or so

before her onset. This had her doctor considering " implanted thoughts "

instead of OCD for a bit. I've wondered if, in having OCD, her brain is

somehow " primed " to obsessions along certain lines (contamination, harm,

etc.) and when she runs into these things it kicks off OCD around it. I've

thought, maybe because she is young, she just has never thought of some of

these things to even worry about them until they are demonstrated to her.

Last summer another uncle (obviously uncles are a big part of the problem

here!) rushed around to pick up M & Ms his toddler had dropped, racing Kel's

puppy who was also doing her best to get to them. He explained chocolate is

poison to dogs, and Kel developed immediate and dramatic obsessions and

compulsions around poisoning her dog, expecially the idea that unseen

chocolate " essence " could be on her hands, so she walked around the house

with her hands in the air (the dog is short) to keep from harming the dog.

Later she refused to eat chocolate, to be absolutely sure there was no

chance of chocolate being on her hands. This was the first time she had any

sort of contamination worries. I could recite probably 10 or 15 instances

like these and the ones I mentioned in my first post. When one of these

gets started it does shoot to center stage immediately, commands all her

attention and some other obsessions and compulsions are suddenly gone. This

is why I've complained before that Kel's OC changes so often and abruptly

that it's hard for me to get a handle on it, also tough in the beginning to

know whether E & RP was working or if things had just changed overnight again.

Kel's only been around others with OCD once, about a year ago, she mentioned

she hoped she didn't get tics like another child she had seen but I don't

remember any new obsessions or compulsions from that experience. All of her

" borrowed " obsessions and compulsions have been taken from others who

(presumably) don't have OCD.

Kathy R. in Indiana

March 5, 2000

Hi:

This is an interesting idea. At first when Steve was dxed with OCD I tried

very hard to find another OCDer for him to meet and hoped this would not

make him feel so different. One of the people I found told me they were

worried about contact making Steve pick up her symptoms and getting worse.

How I think about this now is, someone has a tendency, probably genetic, to

develop OCD. Triggers are things that reflect their environment. For

example one of the first times Steve knew he had a problem was when he was

on a trip with his fellow students away from home. When eating breakfast

at the hotel where they were staying, someone mentioned a story involving

someone putting drugs in another person's water glass at a restaurant.

This set off a big contamination OCD worry about poison, drugs, what was in

his glass etc.

I don't think hearing the story caused the OCD, that was there already.

How the OCD attack manifested itself was influenced greatly by his

environment and hearing this story.

What I have read on this topic uses the fact that family members who have

OCD often have different symptoms, e.g. a mother who is a hoarder might

have a child who is a washer or checker. This indicates the importance of

the genetic factors. I can see though that a mother with OCD who is a

washer might inadvertently reinforce washing rituals in a child with OCD if

they were not careful to avoid participating in their child's OCD. IT is

probably pretty hard to design a study to determine one way or another with

the current knowledge we have about OCD.

I think being with other OCDers has been incredibly helpful to Steve,

certainly more than offsetting any concerns I might have about picking up

their symptoms. In fact I have been struck by how odd OCD kids find

symptoms in other OCDers that they do not have. Once they learn more about

OCD this improves.

Take care, aloha, kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 12:26 PM 03/05/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>From: " Kathy " <klr@...>

>

>> From: Roman <chrisroman@...>

>> You wrote:

>> Her OCD from onset has been a series of complete non-issues that rocket to

>> hugh proportions out of a casual remark or something that happened to

>> someone else.

>>

>> I am quite curious about this one. Have others had this experience? I

>thought that we didn't need

>> to worry about OCDers being exposed to each other's experiences with O/Cs

>as you couldn't " catch "

>> new symtoms from others. Kel's experience makes it sound as if you can?

>Perhaps there is a

>> distinction between a general vulnerability to new O/Cs and picking up a

>new one from someone else

>> with OCD?

>

>Kel's OCD started abruptly and her initial obsession, of cutting out her

>eyes/cutting off her legs with a sharp knife, echoed surgeries two of her

>uncles had recently undergone--and we had visited these uncles a month or so

>before her onset. This had her doctor considering " implanted thoughts "

>instead of OCD for a bit. I've wondered if, in having OCD, her brain is

>somehow " primed " to obsessions along certain lines (contamination, harm,

>etc.) and when she runs into these things it kicks off OCD around it. I've

>thought, maybe because she is young, she just has never thought of some of

>these things to even worry about them until they are demonstrated to her.

>Last summer another uncle (obviously uncles are a big part of the problem

>here!) rushed around to pick up M & Ms his toddler had dropped, racing Kel's

>puppy who was also doing her best to get to them. He explained chocolate is

>poison to dogs, and Kel developed immediate and dramatic obsessions and

>compulsions around poisoning her dog, expecially the idea that unseen

>chocolate " essence " could be on her hands, so she walked around the house

>with her hands in the air (the dog is short) to keep from harming the dog.

>Later she refused to eat chocolate, to be absolutely sure there was no

>chance of chocolate being on her hands. This was the first time she had any

>sort of contamination worries. I could recite probably 10 or 15 instances

>like these and the ones I mentioned in my first post. When one of these

>gets started it does shoot to center stage immediately, commands all her

>attention and some other obsessions and compulsions are suddenly gone. This

>is why I've complained before that Kel's OC changes so often and abruptly

>that it's hard for me to get a handle on it, also tough in the beginning to

>know whether E & RP was working or if things had just changed overnight again.

>

>Kel's only been around others with OCD once, about a year ago, she mentioned

>she hoped she didn't get tics like another child she had seen but I don't

>remember any new obsessions or compulsions from that experience. All of her

> " borrowed " obsessions and compulsions have been taken from others who

>(presumably) don't have OCD.

>

>Kathy R. in Indiana

>

March 5, 2000