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Hi ,

Dr. Gabe Mirkin is reporting good results with doxycycline for osteoarthritis.

Dr. Brown said that a large number of osteoarthritis patients had rheumatoid

arthritis also. Perhaps your mum's doctor might prescribe for her?

Chris.

My mother supposedly has osteoarthritis. Her Dr. has rececently put her

on Salsalate (aka disalcid and trilisate). Since she has been taking

this drug (750mg 4 times a day) she is experiencing aching skin, and

muchmore pain all through her body. She says she feels like she has

the flu, but no fever. She can barely walk now. Her Dr. says he

doesn't know what to do and doesn't know why this is happening.

Does anyone have info on this drug or has anyone had experience taking

it?

Thanks

K

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi ,

Dr. Gabe Mirkin is using doxycycline for osteoarthritis with success. Apparently

a large percentage of osteoarthritis cases have a rheumatoid component. You

might like to look at Dr. Mirkin's web site at www.wdn.com/~mirkin or there are

some extracts from his radio programs at rheumatic.org/mirkin.htm.

Chris.

Hi everyone. Is there a website for osteoarthritis like this one for

rheumatoid arthritis? My husband has osteo, and he has seen how well I

responded to antibiotics, and he wants to try it also. He is presently

on plaquenil, and I have told him constantly to get off it, so he is

willing to try it now. I understand the antibiotic of choice is

tetracycline, is that right? Thanks again for all the info from this

wonderful group.

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  • 1 month later...

Hello, Agnes, I did not respond to you yesterday because I knew there

were far more informed people than I who would. I did, however, come

across this article last night which I had misplaced. I had copied it for

my mother to show to HER doctor. go to

www.nih.gov/nia/new/press/minocycl.htm for an article called MINOCYCLINE-

PROMISING TREATMENT FOR OSTEOPOROSIS. Perhaps this will help you both.

Welcome to the support site here. If the info is available, these

wonderful people here will find it for you. I have only been on the AP

since the middle of December and I can tell you I would have been lost in

the storm without them. Get a mindset that this is slow going and read

and understand the steps forward-backward theory, then get in it for the

duration. This group will help you not falter. Warm regards,

p.s. if you cannot access the site, let me know and I will scan and paste

as an attachment but I think you can find it.

aewinchell@... wrote:

> From: aewinchell@...

>

> Hi Group,

>

> I got interested in the AP for RA because my sister had RA for 20

> years and she started the AP about 8 months ago with good results. I

> was diagnosed with FMS a few years ago and I was managing so-so this

> far, I mean until I got a bad case of osteoarthritis, very suddenly

> about 6 weeks ago, and it is getting worse. I would like to try the

> Ap for this and I need help from you all. Did anybody do the AP for

> osteo.? Did it help? My insurance does treat RA with minocycline

> but I don't know if they would do it for osteo. also. If I have some

> stories to back me up I will push for it.

>

> Thanks for listening,

> Agnes

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  • 1 month later...

Oh BTW, i bought pharmaceutical grade msm from the health store. I dont

trust buying this on the internet.

Subject: Re: rheumatic osteoarthritis

> I seem to be having improvement with my osteo knees by taking msm 4000 mg

> and 1500 mg glucosamine. By doctor actually recomended msm to my suprise

> saying he had patients improve using it. I was on crutches 6 weeks ago,

and

> im walking around (slowly) now. I notice much less grinding crunching

going

> on.

>

>

>

> rheumatic osteoarthritis

>

>

> > From: aewinchell@...

> >

> > Hi Group,

> >

> > I got interested in the AP for RA because my sister had RA for 20

> > years and she started the AP about 8 months ago with good results. I

> > was diagnosed with FMS a few years ago and I was managing so-so this

> > far, I mean until I got a bad case of osteoarthritis, very suddenly

> > about 6 weeks ago, and it is getting worse. I would like to try the

> > Ap for this and I need help from you all. Did anybody do the AP for

> > osteo.? Did it help? My insurance does treat RA with minocycline

> > but I don't know if they would do it for osteo. also. If I have some

> > stories to back me up I will push for it.

> >

> > Thanks for listening,

> > Agnes

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

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Agnes,

Congratulations to you and your sister on starting the AP. I am glad you

found it and your sister is doing so well, even after having RA for 20

years.

I have RA and a little osteo also and I believe doxycycline is used for

osteo. As I am on Minocin I can't advise on this but I'm sure others will

know the dosage and the right antibiotic.

Bev

>

> Hi Group,

>

> I got interested in the AP for RA because my sister had RA for 20

> years and she started the AP about 8 months ago with good results. I

> was diagnosed with FMS a few years ago and I was managing so-so this

> far, I mean until I got a bad case of osteoarthritis, very suddenly

> about 6 weeks ago, and it is getting worse. I would like to try the

> Ap for this and I need help from you all. Did anybody do the AP for

> osteo.? Did it help? My insurance does treat RA with minocycline

> but I don't know if they would do it for osteo. also. If I have some

> stories to back me up I will push for it.

>

> Thanks for listening,

> Agnes

>

>

>

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Dr. Brown observed that a large number of osteoarthritis cases also contained

a rheumatoid component. Hence the antibiotic approach would improve these cases

also.

Dr. Gabe Mirkin (see his website at www.wdn.com/~mirkin) is using doxycycline,

200mg per day, for his osteoarthritis patients with good results.

Chris.

>From: aewinchell@...

>

>Hi Group,

>

>I got interested in the AP for RA because my sister had RA for 20

>years and she started the AP about 8 months ago with good results. I

>was diagnosed with FMS a few years ago and I was managing so-so this

>far, I mean until I got a bad case of osteoarthritis, very suddenly

>about 6 weeks ago, and it is getting worse. I would like to try the

>Ap for this and I need help from you all. Did anybody do the AP for

>osteo.? Did it help? My insurance does treat RA with minocycline

>but I don't know if they would do it for osteo. also. If I have some

>stories to back me up I will push for it.

>

>Thanks for listening,

>Agnes

>

>

>

>

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Hi, Agness,

The American College of Rheumatoloy conference at the end of last year

included tetracyclines, of which minocycline is one, in a discussion of

therapeutic agents for OA. They also mentioned glucosamine and others. Here

is a rather long article copied from Medscape. The mention of tetracyclines

is brief, and toward the middle of the page. Maybe this will help with your

insurance company.

Jean

--------------------

Systemic Drug Therapy of Osteoarthritis

Shadick, MD, MPH

In this session,[1] the state of the art in osteoarthritis (OA) therapy was

introduced. In the last several years there have been advances in the

understanding of the pathophysiology and epidemiology of OA, and several new

compounds are available to modify symptoms of OA. There are also new

compounds in clinical trials that suggest a possible beneficial structural

effect.

OA: A Highly Prevalent and Costly Disorder

The prevalence of OA in the general population is increasing. Currently,

there are 20 million individuals affected by OA of at least 1 joint.[2] The

prevalence is expected to increase to 40 million individuals in the year

2020.

OA is the most common form of arthritis and the second most common cause of

long-term disability among adults.[2] OA is the cause of 7 million physician

visits per year and 3 million hospitalizations per year, and the average

medical costs per person yearly is $2655.[3] Among people aged 65 years and

older, 70% have signs of OA. Among individuals older than 65 years, 46% are

severely disabled and unable to work secondary to their OA.

Maxime Dougados, MD, of the Universite Rene Descartes, Hopital Cochin, in

Paris, France, commented on the etiology of OA.[4] He acknowledged that

biomechanical factors play an important role in the pathogenesis of OA, but

his talk focused on systemic therapies for OA. He did not discuss

intra-articular injections of hyaluronate sodium or glucocorticoids. In

addition, the risk factors for developing incident OA or worsening OA, such

as older age, obesity, and, particularly in knee OA, a history of trauma,

repetitive overuse, and sex and race characteristics, also were not

discussed.

Articular Cartilage Structure

Dr. Dougados discussed the central role that cartilage plays in the

pathogenesis of OA. Cartilage contains water, proteoglycans, and collagen.

Proteoglycans are composed of a protein core with glycosaminoglycan

components, chondroitin sulfate, and keratan sulfate, which link with

hyaluronic acid. Type II collagen is the major component of articular

cartilage and contribute to the structural integrity of cartilage.

Inflammatory mediators such as interleukin 1 (IL-1) and tumor necrosis

factor alpha (TNF-alpha) are increased in the damaged cartilage, however,

matrix metalloproteinases and prostaglandins in the synovial fluid and

chondrocytes are increased. Metalloproteinases, collagenases, gelatinases,

and stomolysins degrade collagen and proteoglycans. Nitrous oxide production

increases and chondrocyte apoptosis occurs. As OA progresses, cartilage is

degraded, and the mechanics of joint use change, which further promotes

arthritis and the process continues. Dr. Dougados reiterated that cartilage

breakdown is the main feature of OA. Insulin growth factor and transforming

growth factor beta are compounds that stimulate cartilage matrix synthesis.

Dr. Dougados explained inflammation in OA. He remarked that inflammation

comes from the synovial membrane (synovitis), from the cartilage

(chondritis), and within the subchondral bone (osteitis).

Chondritis occurs secondary to IL-1 and/or IL-6, in which the chondrocyte

synthesizes prostaglandins in response to these cytokines. Osteitis occurs

when the damage spreads to the subchondral bone, most evident on radiographs

with sclerosis and subchondral cyst formation. Synovitis also occurs

frequently with OA, and the degree of inflammation predicts response to

nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs).

Objectives of OA Therapy

Dr. Dougados commented that the objectives of therapy for OA are to reduce

the level of pain, reduce inflammation, and slow cartilage degradation. In

particular, a clinician should focus on improving function and reducing

disability. Since cartilage is not innervated, pain comes from surrounding

areas within or near the joint capsule such as the synovial membrane,

periarticular muscle spasm, periarticular ligament, or subchondral bone

inflammation. In addition to the inflammatory response, neuropeptides (eg,

substance P, calcitonin gene-related peptide, bradykinin) and peripheral

opiod receptors also contribute to the sensation of pain.

Treatment Options

Dr. Dougados first discussed glucosamine sulfate and chondroitin sulfate,

which are available as a food supplements in the United States and Canada,

but are approved as drugs in Europe and South America. Subsequently, there

are ongoing clinical trials with these agents in Europe. One large ongoing

National Institutes of Health-sponsored clinical trial of glucosamine

sulfate is under way, funded by the Institute of Complementary and

Alternative Medicine. There are no preliminary data available from this

trial as yet. Dr. Dougados listed the following systemic therapies for OA:

* Analgesics

* NSAIDs

* Myorelaxants

* Vitamin supplementation with C, D, and E

* Oligoelements supplementation: selenium, copper

* Estrogen replacement therapy

* Cartilage extracts: chondroitin sulfate, glucosamine sulfate

* Avocado and soybean unsaponifiables

* Diacerein

* Tetracyclines and other matrix metalloproteinase inhibitors

Categories of Evidence

Dr. Dougados prefaced his talk on therapies by defining the categories of

evidence for efficacy. He stated that the best data come from meta-analyses

of randomized clinical trials followed by the evidence from one randomized

controlled trial. Evidence from expert opinions are useful but " less

objective and reliable. " He remarked that there are also shortcomings in OA

research in that there is a lack of standard case definitions and outcome

measures. Dr. Dougados proposed that an outcome variable that measures the

percentage of responders or " lack of progressors " would be useful to include

in clinical trials.

Prevention of OA

Dr. Dougados stated that there are currently no data available to suggest

that the intake of any compound might prevent OA. There is a longitudinal

epidemiological study that shows a potential beneficial effect of estrogen

replacement in postmenopausal women[5] and examines the relationship between

OA and serum vitamin D levels.[5] The epidemiological data suggest that low

serum vitamin D levels may be associated with radiographic joint space

narrowing.

Analgesics vs NSAIDs

The American College of Rheumatology (ACR) recommends the use of

acetaminophen as a first-line agent for OA given concerns of

gastrointestinal and renal toxic effects. Dr. Dougados clarified that

current ACR recommendations regarding the first-line use of acetaminophen

should be modified given the availability of the cyclooxygenase (COX) 2

inhibitors.[6]

Several meta-analyses evaluating placebo-controlled trials show that both

analgesics and NSAIDs improve symptoms of OA within hours to days. The

studies point out that NSAIDs are more effective than acetaminophen in the

case of night-time pain or pain at rest. No difference has been shown

between acetaminophen and NSAIDs with use-related joint pain.[7] Dr.

Dougados commented on the LINK trial that compares the radiological

progression of knee OA. Naproxen use showed no deleterious structural effect

at 2 years compared with a previous trial of indomethacin, which suggests

that long-term use of this drug hastened joint space narrowing.[8]

COX-1 vs COX-2 Treatments

Many office visits for OA involve a prescription for an NSAID and it is most

often prescribed for the elderly. Given their adverse effects, however, the

use of these drugs is often discontinued. Common adverse effects of NSAIDs

are dyspepsia and reversible platelet inhibition in more than 10% of

patients, with gastrointestinal bleeding or ulceration in between 1% and 10%

of patients. Because of the risk of serious gastrointestinal bleeding, COX-2

inhibitors offer similar efficacy and fewer adverse effects.[9]

Membrane phospholipids are cleaved to arachidonic acid which is then cleaved

by COXs to prostaglandins and thromboxanes. The recent discovery and

characterization of 2 isoenzymes of COX have helped better target NSAID

therapy to reduce gastrointestinal adverse effects. COX-1 is present in many

tissues and is cytoprotective in the gastric mucosa endothelium, platelets,

and kidneys. Inhibiting COX-1 is responsible for many adverse effects of

traditional NSAIDs.[10]

COX-2 is not produced by unstimulated cells and is found in leukocytes,

brain neurons, synovial cells, and smooth muscle. The new COX-2 inhibitors,

rofecoxib and celecoxib, inhibit COX-2, which reduces the risk of

gastrointestinal bleeding and antithrombotic adverse effects but still

preserves the anti-inflammatory, analgesic, and antipyretic effects of the

NSAIDs. Since COX-2-specific agents can only bind in the COX-2 isoenzyme,

the COX-2 inhibitors block the transformation of arachidonic acid to

prostaglandin E2 and others, which are responsible for pain, fever, and

inflammation, but the other prostaglandins that are protective of the

gastric mucosa are not blocked.[10]

Efficacy of the COX-2 inhibitors is comparable to NSAIDs. In OA, celecoxib

was evaluated in 4200 individuals in a 12-week trial and found that it was

comparable to 500 mg of naproxen administered twice daily and superior to

placebo. In addition, celecoxib had less than a 4% endoscopically documented

ulcer rate compared with diclofenac, which had close to a 15% ulcer rate at

24 weeks.[11]

Rofecoxib is approved by the Food and Drug Administration for the treatment

of OA and, like celecoxib, it is highly specific for COX-2. In a study of

736 individuals with OA, rofecoxib and ibuprofen had similar improvement in

pain walking on a flat surface.[12] Rofecoxib and diclofenac also had

similar improvements in pain walking on a flat surface.[13] In addition,

fecal loss studies and endoscopy studies of ulcerations suggested safety

over ibuprofen. In sum, there are fewer gastroduodenal ulcerations with

rofecoxib compared with ibuprofen, and no effects on platelets and bleeding

time. Rofecoxib is not recommended for patients with advanced renal disease

or hepatic insufficiency.[12]

Dr. Dougados cautioned that there is further need for long-term safety data

and other comparative studies.

Glucosamine Sulfate

Dr. Dougados commented on an abstract by Dr. Reginster[14] that demonstrated

that glucosamine sulfate significantly reduced progression of knee OA after

3 years. This study was a large randomized controlled analysis that was

placebo-controlled, double-blind, and prospective. It contained 212 patients

with knee OA. Weight-bearing and antero-posterior radiographs of each knee

were done at 1 and 3 years. Joint space width was also measured.

Symptom and functional status were scored every 4 months using the Western

Ontario and McMaster University Osteoarthritis index (WOMAC). The 2 groups

had comparable baseline status, but after 3 years there was no joint space

narrowing in the glucosamine group compared with the placebo group (between

0.08 and 1.0 mm per year). Symptoms worsened in the placebo group and

improved in the glucosamine group. Dr. Dougados is optimistic about this

compound.

Other Compounds

Dr. Dougados commented on other therapies for OA that are currently in

clinical trials, diacerein and avocado and soybean unsaponifiables.[15,16]

There are several longer clinical trials that demonstrate a positive effect

on symptoms of piascledine (soybean/avocado). In addition, with diacerin the

percentage of progressors with joint-space narrowing was lower in the

diacerein group than the placebo group. In general, Dr. Dougados summarized

that when compared with conventional analgesics and NSAIDs, these compounds

have a treatment effect that is less dramatic in terms of symptom

improvement. Their onset of action is delayed, sometimes up to 8 weeks.

After discontinuation, there is a carryover effect of 2 to 8 weeks'

duration. There are also no gastrointestinal adverse effects.[15,16]

References

1. Moskowitz R. Systemic drug therapy of OA. Presented at the American

College of Rheumatology 63rd Annual Scientific Meeting; November 12-17,

1999; Boston, Mass.

2. Lawrence RC, Helmick CG, Arnett FC, et al. Estimates of the prevalence

of arthritis and selected musculoskeletal disorders in the United States.

Arthritis Rheum. 1998;41:778-799.

3. SE, Crowson CS, Campion ME, O'Fallon WM. Direct medical costs

unique to people with arthritis. J Rheumatol. 1997;24:719-725.

4. Dougados M. Systemic drug therapy of osteoarthritis. Presented at the

American College of Rheumatology 63rd Annual Scientific Meeting; November

12-17, 1999; Boston, Mass.

5. Zhang Y, McAlindon TE, Hannan MT, et al. Estrogen replacement therapy

and worsening of radiographic knee osteoarthritis: The Framingham Study.

Arthritis Rheum. 1998;41:1867-1873.

6. Eccles M, Freemantle N, Mason J, for the North of England

Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug Guideline Development Group. North of

England evidence based guideline development project: summary guideline for

non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs versus basic analgesia in treating the

pain of degenerative arthritis. BMJ. 1998;317:526-530.

7. Towheed TE, Hochberg MC. A systematic review of randomized controlled

trials of pharmacological therapy in osteoarthritis of the hip. J Rheumatol.

1997;24:349-357.

8. Huskinson EC, Berry H, Gishen P, et al, on behalf of the LINK Study

Group. Effects of anti-inflammatory therapy in OA of the knee joint. Br J

Rheumatol. 1993;32:595-600.

9. Scheiman JM. Preventing NSAID toxicity to the upper gastrointestinal

tract. Curr Treat Options Gastroenterol. 1999;2:205-213.

10. Crofford L. COX-1 and COX-2 tissue expression: implications and

predictions. J Rheumatol. 1997;24(suppl 49):15-19.

11. Geis GS, Stead H, Morant S, Naudin R, Hubbard R. Efficacy and safety

of celecoxib, a specific COX-2 inhibitor, in patients with rheumatoid

arthritis. Arthritis Rheum. 1998;42(suppl):S316. Abstract 1699.

12. Hawkey C, Laine L, Simon T, el al. A comparison of the effect of

rofecoxib, ibuprofen, or placebo on the gastrointestinal mucosa of

osteoarthritics. Gastroenterology. In press.

13. Cannon G, Caldwell J, Holt P, et al. Rofecoxib, a COX-2-specific

inhibitor, has clinical efficacy comparable with diclofenac sodium: results

of a one-year randomized clinical trial in patients with OA of the knee and

hip. Arthritis Rheum. In press.

14. Reginster Y-J, Deroisy R, I, et al. Glucosamine sulfate

significantly reduces progression of knee OA over 3 years: a large

randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind prospective trial. Arthritis

Rheum. 1999;42(suppl).

15. Maheu E, Mazieres B, Valat JP, et al. Symptomatic efficacy of

avocado/soybean unsaponifiables in the treatment of OA of the knee and hip:

a prospective, randomized double-blind, placebo-controlled, multicenter

clinical trial with a six-month treatment period and a two-month follow-up

demonstrating a persistent effect. Arthritis Rheum. 1998;41:81-91.

16. Nguyen M, Dougados M, Berdah L, Amor B. Diacerein in the treatment of

OA of the hip. Arthritis Rheum. 1994;37:529-536.

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According to the Road Back they are testing minocin for OA.

Briarwood wrote:

>

> From: " Briarwood " <briarwood@...>

>

> Agnes,

> Congratulations to you and your sister on starting the AP. I am glad you

> found it and your sister is doing so well, even after having RA for 20

> years.

> I have RA and a little osteo also and I believe doxycycline is used for

> osteo. As I am on Minocin I can't advise on this but I'm sure others will

> know the dosage and the right antibiotic.

>

> Bev

>

> >

> > Hi Group,

> >

> > I got interested in the AP for RA because my sister had RA for 20

> > years and she started the AP about 8 months ago with good results. I

> > was diagnosed with FMS a few years ago and I was managing so-so this

> > far, I mean until I got a bad case of osteoarthritis, very suddenly

> > about 6 weeks ago, and it is getting worse. I would like to try the

> > Ap for this and I need help from you all. Did anybody do the AP for

> > osteo.? Did it help? My insurance does treat RA with minocycline

> > but I don't know if they would do it for osteo. also. If I have some

> > stories to back me up I will push for it.

> >

> > Thanks for listening,

> > Agnes

> >

> >

> >

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9%

> Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points,

> no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the

> credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at:

> 1/912/0/_/532797/_/951775114/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Guest guest

Well my doc told me to take 4000 mg of msm maybe you should increase your

intake. And i assume your taking about 1500 mg of glucosamine. You didnt say

how long you were taking this combo. I would give it some time.

Ive heard of CMO, im a bit leary of it. I guess it wont hurt you to try. If

you do try it i sure want to hear your opinion about it.

Re: rheumatic osteoarthritis

> Hi ,

>

> Thanks for writing to me. I tried the glucosamine and the MSM (2000

> mg) , so far no change. Maybe I should try to increase it. My knees

> are still in good shape, I have problems with the hands, arms, neck.

> I want to try the CMO (cetyl miristoleate), have you heard anything

> on that?

>

> Agnes

>

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Guest guest

I was told to buy pharmicutial grade, this doesnt neccesarily mean you will

get an inferior product buying it on the web. I was told since it is derived

from dmso(i think) a industrial type of compound, you would be assured a

good product if you went with pharmicutical grade. It is more expensive, but

still cheap enough. I also bought the powder which is cheaper, and mix it in

water, or a health shake. Its pretty much tasteless.

Subject: Re: rheumatic osteoarthritis

> Wish I had read my mail sooner. Just hung up from order MSM on the net.

I

> bought it in 1000 mg. each 240 caps were $29.00. If this does not help

me. I

> will be writing to you for the brand you are using. Thanks.

>

> wrote:

>

> > From: " " <higgy2000@...>

> >

> > Oh BTW, i bought pharmaceutical grade msm from the health store. I dont

> > trust buying this on the internet.

> >

> >

> >

> > Subject: Re: rheumatic osteoarthritis

> >

> > > I seem to be having improvement with my osteo knees by taking msm 4000

mg

> > > and 1500 mg glucosamine. By doctor actually recomended msm to my

suprise

> > > saying he had patients improve using it. I was on crutches 6 weeks

ago,

> > and

> > > im walking around (slowly) now. I notice much less grinding crunching

> > going

> > > on.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > rheumatic osteoarthritis

> > >

> > >

> > > > From: aewinchell@...

> > > >

> > > > Hi Group,

> > > >

> > > > I got interested in the AP for RA because my sister had RA for 20

> > > > years and she started the AP about 8 months ago with good results. I

> > > > was diagnosed with FMS a few years ago and I was managing so-so this

> > > > far, I mean until I got a bad case of osteoarthritis, very suddenly

> > > > about 6 weeks ago, and it is getting worse. I would like to try the

> > > > Ap for this and I need help from you all. Did anybody do the AP for

> > > > osteo.? Did it help? My insurance does treat RA with minocycline

> > > > but I don't know if they would do it for osteo. also. If I have

some

> > > > stories to back me up I will push for it.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for listening,

> > > > Agnes

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you

> > apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum.

> > 1/1894/0/_/532797/_/951771967/

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

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  • 7 months later...

It was my Husband that was to have surgery for Osteoarthritis. He was been on grapes for weeks, upon weeks, now. They helped the most. He eats a normal supper in the evenings. He also takes a colon product (homozon). He is not completely well. Yet he is 75% better, able to work around the home, and surgery has been canceled.

Bernadette

Re: The magnesium worked!

Your husband was the one that was supposed to have surgery right? for osteoporosis? I think his results have been a great encouragement for all of us!

Actually, no my husband was the one who took the black walnut tincture to help get rid of parasites and ended up with a sudden attack of kidney pain. He stopped the black walnut tincture after only 2 days, and went on a kidney cleanse right away. The kidney cleanse wasn't working like it had in the past, but once he added the higher amounts of magnesium and B-6, as well as drinking apple cider vinegar drinks, his kidney pain was gone in only a few days.

I hope it encourages someone !

PattySubscription email: mailto:bowel cleanse-subscribeegroups

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> Bernardette,

> Did your husband follow The Grape Cure from Johanna Brandt?

>

>

No, he just eats grapes all day and has a normal supper at night. He is also

in physical therapy, and had been prior to taking the grapes, with no

improvement whatsoever. After starting on the grapes, (initially he went on

a total grape fast for three days) he began at the end of the fast, to see

his first signs of improvement. Prior to the grape fast and while on

physical therapy he was getting worse each day and causing permanent nerve

damage. He still has minor problems. Yet over the weekend he carried about

40, 50LB buckets. After this he saw more improvement, he accounts to the

stretching of the arm and neck muscles. He is still on the grapes all day.

Bernadette.

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  • 4 months later...
Guest guest

Hi Lin,

Dr. Gabe Mirkin broadcasts on US radio that he is getting good results with

doxycycline and osteoarthritis. Dr. Brown said that about 50% of osteoarthritis

cases had a rheumatoid component also.

Have a look at the articles on Gabe Mirkin's web site. The address used to be

www.wdn.com/mirkin but I think it's now www.mirkin.com - there's probably a

redirect anyway.

Chris.

>On behalf of a friend of a friend (who is in dire straits) is anyone out

>there using antibiotic therapy for osteoarthritis?? Only two more weeks to

>find out if my IV chelation,IV antibiotics and mega health supps have had an

>effect on my sed rate.)

>Hugs,

>Lin

>

>To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>

>

>

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  • 4 years later...

I did read it and have been doing most of it as well.I cant take anything that

will damage the lining of my stomach as I have it heaLED.

i AM TAKING A PANCREATING TABLET that is helping,by not irrating my stomach. Yes

I know that caps are better,but this seems to be working as I have not found

anything that I can take with my senestive stomach.

Lemon juice and salt are good. I will try and drink more,but did get down 3 cups

today. I am concerned if I can take the glucosamine and chondroitin, as I cant

take NSAID and am wondering if this will be ok for me to take?

I think this pain Iam feeling could be emotional and now that Iam eating better

that should help.

I take Thorne cal,mag, multi vitamin, potassium.

Am getting acbc on hormones so will see what that shows.

Alpha lopic acid and I dont get along so have to be careful how to detox. This

should be itneresting with cholestral as mine is usally so low. Iam not doing

anything to rid the body of mercury,but I do have my fillings out.

best thing I can do is my diet and to stay on it.

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>

> I did read it and have been doing most of it as well.I cant take

anything that will damage the lining of my stomach as I have it

heaLED.

==>That's great .

> i AM TAKING A PANCREATING TABLET that is helping,by not irrating my

stomach. Yes I know that caps are better,but this seems to be working

as I have not found anything that I can take with my senestive

stomach.

==>If you are doing okay on that is good.

>

> Lemon juice and salt are good. I will try and drink more,but did

get down 3 cups today. I am concerned if I can take the glucosamine

and chondroitin, as I cant take NSAID and am wondering if this will

be ok for me to take?

==>The Arthritis article states that you do not need to get

glucosamine and chondroitin from a supplement because it is better to

eat meats and eggs which contain them, or at least they contain the

essential amino acids required for your body to make them.

> I think this pain Iam feeling could be emotional and now that Iam

eating better that should help.

==>Emotional pain can be very hard to deal with.

>

> I take Thorne cal,mag, multi vitamin, potassium.

> Am getting acbc on hormones so will see what that shows.

==>Potassium is not recommended because there is so much available in

so many foods on the diet - it is rare for anyone to be low on it and

it can throw off your mineral balances. A multivitamin is usually

very low grade because they cannot cram so much into one pill and

retain quality - it is better to take certain vitamins and minerals

in a separate supplement per my article.

>

> Alpha lopic acid and I dont get along so have to be careful how to

detox. This should be itneresting with cholestral as mine is usally

so low. Iam not doing anything to rid the body of mercury,but I do

have my fillings out.

==>Cholesterol levels are non-issue - please read my article which

discusses how the cholesterol theory is totally false. What do you

mean about Alpha lopic acid? Where would you be getting it that

concerns you?

>

> best thing I can do is my diet and to stay on it.

==>Amen, but also correct your supplements per my article.

Bee

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alpha lopic acid is in one of my supplements, the basic detox from thorne and I

broke out in a horrible rash when I took it,since then I have not been able to

try to take it.Should I take it for mercury detox?

I understand about cholestral,I dont worry about that one.

Potassium, I lose a lot with flow of urine. Besides eating foods I do take a

supplement and when I dont take it I get much more leg cramps. I dont know how

to control the flow of so much urine and that is where my potassium goes.

I have tried the coconut oil,one speck and still I itch. I do misss it,but not

sure how and when to start eating it again.

Before I would put it in with my veggies cooking.

Olive oil seems to be working with the craving of fat and my hunger is not so

bad as before.

I think my problem is my hormones, not sure will have the test this morning. Not

sure if I have osteo-arthritis, never been tested,it just came on all of a

sudden the pains. After reading your articles going to just keep eating etc and

see how it goes.

Last night with the itching so bad, I did take a mercury homeopathic and that

seemed to help. I was able to go back to sleep.

When I cook my veggies in olive oil I am able to put cut up garlic there as well

and am doing fine, so much has changed,but still have itching at times when I

drink more than one glass of lemon and salt. Itching gets old. I need my sleep.

bromelain helps

---------------------------------

Relax. virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

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  • 1 year later...
Guest guest

You might want to have your doctor check to make sure it isn't rheumatoid

arthritis.

Sandy

On 4/17/07, sarapetsch <sarapetsch@...> wrote:

>

> Hello,

> I have a problem I was hoping someone would know something about.

> My mom has SEVERE osteoarthritis in several places on her body, but

> especially in her hands. Her hands are so knotted up and deformed

> she can barely use them. She has refused to try anything related to

> the WAP diet (which I eat) or anything even remotely " alternative " .

> But that's not the problem I'm asking about. I have felt " smug "

> because I have always thought, at least since changing my diet and

> lifestyle over to WAP, that I would not get the arthritis that my

> mom has. I figured, well, if she won't accept my help at least I

> won't have to suffer with it like she does. I not only follow WAP

> principles but I also take butter oil (which is supposed to be great

> for arthritis) and cod liver oil religiously. Well, in the last few

> weeks I have noticed the knuckles in my hands, the ones at the base

> of the fingers, knotting up like hers!!!! I am almost 40, and I

> suppose that's about when her problems started too. I swear it

> seems like this just sprung up in the last few weeks, although I

> suppose I just hadn't really noticed before. These knuckles are

> getting larger and knobbier looking by the day it seems. So much

> for my feeling smug! So, does anyone know, first of all, if this

> really does sound like arthritis, and second of all, is there

> anything else I can do to head this off!!!

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

> Sara

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

No, I haven't. I have had 9 amalgam fillings replaced though, but

that's not the same thing. Thanks anyway.

>

> Sara -

>

> Have you had any root canals? I have read that root canals can

cause this

> kind of arthritis, but it can be reversed.

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> MSN is giving away a trip to Vegas to see Elton .  Enter to

win today.

> http://msnconcertcontest.com?icid-nceltontagline

>

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Guest guest

Rheumatoid arthritis is treated differently I believe and typically more

agressively because of the rapid changes that it can cause in joints.

On 4/20/07, sarapetsch <sarapetsch@...> wrote:

>

> If it was, would I do anything different?

>

>

> >

> > You might want to have your doctor check to make sure it isn't

> rheumatoid

> > arthritis.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

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  • 1 month later...
Guest guest

I have had such bad arthritis that I could hardly

walk, write, open doors, etc.

About 25 years ago, I read that night shade vegetables

(mainly: tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, fresh green,

red, yellow peppers, spinach... I can think of right

now), may cause arthritis and stopped eating them. My

pains have stopped, but as soon as I have any night

shade vegetables, some pain returns.

Ingrid

--- regehr2001 <leoelfie@...> wrote:

> Anyone know of a treatment for osteoarthritis?

> Thanks.

> Leo

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

oneSearch: Finally, mobile search

that gives answers, not web links.

http://mobile./mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC

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Guest guest

I hardly ever eat any of these veggies but I still have excruciating pain in

my

lower back. I also have Osteoarthritis with three pinched nerves and four

bulges. They have given me all the shots that I'm going to let them do.

Their

next step was to block the nerves. I just don't think so. I've read there

could

be complications. I asked the advise of a Dr and he said he wouldn't let them

do it to him.......Joyce

Re: osteoarthritis

I have had such bad arthritis that I could hardly

walk, write, open doors, etc.

About 25 years ago, I read that night shade vegetables

(mainly: tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, fresh green,

red, yellow peppers, spinach... I can think of right

now), may cause arthritis and stopped eating them. My

pains have stopped, but as soon as I have any night

shade vegetables, some pain returns.

Ingrid

--- regehr2001 <leoelfie@...> wrote:

> Anyone know of a treatment for osteoarthritis?

> Thanks.

> Leo

>

>

__________________________________________________________

oneSearch: Finally, mobile search

that gives answers, not web links.

http://mobile./mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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