Re: Considering the Prophet Yechezkel (Ezekiel) from the Original Hebrew

[Guest guest]

Hi everybody, that is, anybody still here interesting in sprouting... From

the beginning of recorded history there have

been 13 years of war for each year of non-war. At the present time there are 15

or 20 wars ranging around the world. They range from the big one in Iraq to

tribal disputes by feuding war lord and despot dictators. Many of these " wars "

are being fought in the name of a god or religious belief.

It seem we have started another stupid discord with the interpretation of some

obscure biblical passage on bread making.

The foolish statement that my bible is better then your bible sure started

another " war " !! I can just see the headlines!

" Sprouters lose bread battle!! "

It has been great to be with the group for a while but this is toooooo much.

Bye ... Hope someone will start a peace

movement for sprouting!!!!!! Bill W

@...: adamatova@...: Fri, 11 Apr 2008

11:06:52 +0000Subject: Considering the Prophet Yechezkel

(Ezekiel) from the Original Hebrew

There is MUCH confusion, misinformation and general ignorance aboutthe bible -

which is the Torah which has been misconstrued, twisted,added to and amended as

if it were a wikipedia to do with as onewishes. Over the course of history this

is exactly what hastranspired. People who wished to CUT CORNERS on the truth, to

amend itto suit their needs, mostly of the egotistical nature, discarding

theORIGINAL texts in which they were written and given to mankind viaMoses to

the Jewish people to give then to all via teachings.Unfortunately, we all know

how that turned out with pogroms, crusades,holocausts, intifadas and general

denigration of the Jews for merelybeing the Chosen Ones - chosen to teach and

lead others. Oh how we'veall got this whole path wrong. Where the blind lead the

blinded andthe words no longer resemble in any shape, way or form the

originalintent. For all is multi-dimensional and holographic in its giving

andreceiving. There is nothing in translation that will give anyone aninkling

into Godliness, intent (past, present and future) withoutknowing Hebrew - the

letters and their powers. Not a thing. SO allthis is just surmising - a

continuation of what you've been taught byothers who were blind, deaf and dumb

and those who came before themeach adding to the mix of confusion like the

Telephone Game.If you want to understand Yechezkel from the origins - this would

beyour link

-http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/16098/jewish/Ezekiel.htmthere you

will find the closest translation from Hebrew to English asthe original meaning

was intended. Then I urge you to follow the links on that site to delve more

closelyinto the psyche of this prophet, his ability to see and his closenessto

God as he walked in Godliness. And for those who consider the texts as to be

irrelevant because theywere written over 2,000 years ago - I can't persuade you

this way orthat, nor is it my intention here to do so - merely to say -

geteducated before you form an opinion. The internet is here for justthat

purpose. It is in fact a Tree of life or death. Your choice onhow to use

it.There are many hidden messages in Ezekiel that are more than relevanttoday

which mankind is living penetrating into the very core ofhumanity's existence

that is panning out right now. For this to beunderstood one, again needs to gain

insight via the original texts andthose can be found at

http://www.moshiach.comFrom Yishayahu - Isaiah - " 1. And a shoot shall spring

forth from the stem of , and a twigshall sprout from his roots. " For the

meaning of this -

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/15942/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapte\

r-11.htmBest wishes - jj

_________________________________________________________________

Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic.

http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164 & ocid=T003MSN51N1653A

[Guest guest]

I think if you want to read the Bible (whatever translation your have) or if you

don't want to read the Bible, that is fine. Most of us do not know Hebrew well

enough to read and understand the TaNaCH (note the Torah is only the first 5

books). But if you want to look at the Hebrew and the English from a good

source then go for it. But I think to point the finger at people who don't have

the knowledge or know how to read the Torah (or in this case the TaNaCH) in the

Hebrew is really what Jews should not be after. We can assist others in their

journey if they choose without saying they are reading the wrong Bible. Things

should be done in kindness. Enough people hate us, let's not make more enemies

of the world.

Since this is a diverse group, obviously, our posts should be composed to

reflect that. Let' let sprouting be the thing we have in common and not divide

us!

Shalom!

Kelli Armes

Considering the Prophet

Yechezkel (Ezekiel) from the Original Hebrew

There is MUCH confusion, misinformation and general ignorance aboutthe bible -

which is the Torah which has been misconstrued, twisted,added to and amended as

if it were a wikipedia to do with as onewishes. Over the course of history this

is exactly what hastranspired. People who wished to CUT CORNERS on the truth, to

amend itto suit their needs, mostly of the egotistical nature, discarding

theORIGINAL texts in which they were written and given to mankind viaMoses to

the Jewish people to give then to all via teachings.Unfortunately, we all know

how that turned out with pogroms, crusades,holocausts, intifadas and general

denigration of the Jews for merelybeing the Chosen Ones - chosen to teach and

lead others. Oh how we'veall got this whole path wrong. Where the blind lead the

blinded andthe words no longer resemble in any shape, way or form the

originalintent. For all is multi-dimensional and holographic in its giving

andreceiving. There is nothing in translation that will give anyone aninkling

into Godliness, intent (past, present and future) withoutknowing Hebrew - the

letters and their powers. Not a thing. SO allthis is just surmising - a

continuation of what you've been taught byothers who were blind, deaf and dumb

and those who came before themeach adding to the mix of confusion like the

Telephone Game.If you want to understand Yechezkel from the origins - this would

beyour link

-http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/16098/jewish/Ezekiel.htmthere you

will find the closest translation from Hebrew to English asthe original meaning

was intended. Then I urge you to follow the links on that site to delve more

closelyinto the psyche of this prophet, his ability to see and his closenessto

God as he walked in Godliness. And for those who consider the texts as to be

irrelevant because theywere written over 2,000 years ago - I can't persuade you

this way orthat, nor is it my intention here to do so - merely to say -

geteducated before you form an opinion. The internet is here for justthat

purpose. It is in fact a Tree of life or death. Your choice onhow to use

it.There are many hidden messages in Ezekiel that are more than relevanttoday

which mankind is living penetrating into the very core ofhumanity's existence

that is panning out right now. For this to beunderstood one, again needs to gain

insight via the original texts andthose can be found at

http://www.moshiach.comFrom Yishayahu - Isaiah - " 1. And a shoot shall spring

forth from the stem of , and a twigshall sprout from his roots. " For the

meaning of this -

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/15942/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapte\

r-11.htmBest wishes - jj

__________________________________________________________

Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic.

http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164 & ocid=T003MSN51N1653A

[Guest guest]

> From Yishayahu - Isaiah -

> " 1. And a shoot shall spring forth from the stem of , and a twig

> shall sprout from his roots. "

>

> For the meaning of this -

>

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/15942/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapte\

r-11.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------

The verse you have mentioned addresses one of the most important and

least understood messages in the entire Bible. When understood, this

message opens up an entirely new Biblical concept and Biblical

understanding. The explanation is rather lengthy, but quite simple

and straightforward once the veils and misconceptions have been

removed. Unfortunately, the link you suggest for its meaning does not

contribute to that meaning.

The Bible is basically the canonization of a set of rules and laws

given to people by God combined with a history of a single people from

that people's beginning to its end.

was a Jew. He was the father of who later became a King

over all of Israel.

At this point definition becomes necessary. Who are the Israelites?

Who are the Jews? Are they one and the same? If you read Ezekiel,

you will find, among other things, that God told Ezekiel to give

particular messages to the House of Israel and particular messages to

the House of Judah - the Jews. They were DIFFERENT messages. In

fact, for all of the sins of the House of Judah, the sins of the House

of Israel were several times greater and were to be punished to a

greater degree.

Israel was a man. His birth name was . God later changed it to

Israel. All of his descendants are Israelites. Just like all

descendants of " " are s. All of Tom ' descendants

are named . The descends of Israel became numerous enough to be

more than just a family. They became an entire nation, hence the

" ites " suffix - IsraelITES.

Israel, the man, had 12 sons. The eldest of those sons was Judah.

The descendants of the man, Judah, became known as " Jews " . Therefore

ALL Jews ARE Israelites, but all Israelites are NOT Jews.

When the tribe was small - a few carts full of people and some live

stock - this distinction was mostly irrelevant. As the numbers grew,

as wealth was acquired and power increased, the House of Israel (all 12

tribes - actually 13, but that's another story) began to differentiate

itself into the different tribes under the leadership of the household

head - the particular son of Israel.

Judah, part of and part of Levy moved away from the rest of

the tribes and basically set up their own community or nation. At

this point the term " Jew " achieved a greater meaning. The remainder

of the House of Israel became known as " Israelites " while the House of

Judah became known as " Jews " .

Jews are recognized today as Israelites for two reasons. First, they

ARE Israelites, descendants of Israel, and secondly because the

remainder of the tribes of Israel were taken into captivity and

dispersed among the rest of the nations of the world as prophesied in

Ezekiel and elsewhere. They became the " Lost Tribes of Israel " . They

became " lost " , not " gone " . They simply lost their identity as they

were assimilated into the peoples to which they were dispersed. They

didn't cease to exist.

was a Jew. His son was likewise a Jew. was a King

over ALL of Israel. God made a promise to . That promise is

extremely import to Biblical understanding. Because of 's

loyalty God promised that a descendant of 's would ALWAYS

and FOREVER sit on the throne (be a ruler) over the House of ISRAEL.

chapter 33:

" 'The days are coming,' declares the LORD, 'when I will fulfill the

gracious promise I made to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.

15 " 'In those days and at that time I will make a righteous Branch

sprout from 's line; he will do what is just and right in the land.

16 In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will live in

safety. This is the name by which it will be called: The LORD Our

Righteousness.'

17 For this is what the LORD says: ' will never fail to have a

man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel,

18 nor will the priests, who are Levites, ever fail to have a man to

stand before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain

offerings and to present sacrifices.' "

19 The word of the LORD came to :

20 " This is what the LORD says: 'If you can break my covenant with

the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night no

longer come at their appointed time,

21 then my covenant with my servant -- and my covenant with

the Levites who are priests ministering before me -- can be broken and

will no longer have a descendant to reign on his throne.

22 I will make the descendants of my servant and the Levites

who minister before me as countless as the stars of the sky and as

measureless as the sand on the seashore.' "

Notice the separateness of Judah and Israel. Notice also the strength

and irrevocable nature of the promise. This, incidentally, is a

method one can use to prove the Bible false and the NON existence of

God Himself. Prove that Israel was not then and is not now being

ruled by a descendant of , and you have disproved the Bible.

Many say that Jesus, a descendant of , is now sitting on 's

throne. Couple of things wrong with that premise. First, who was on

the throne for the 585 years between the birth of Jesus and the death

of Zedekiah, the last recorded king of Israel?

Zedekiah was killed along with all his male descendants when

Nebuchadnezzar invaded Jerusalem and laid siege to it. This

effectively stopped 's descendant's rule over Israel - at least

according to recorded history.

Now we come to the verse that started this discussion. Read the 17th

chapter of Ezekiel. The twigs and roots and trees etc., refer to the

DAUGHTERS of King Zedekiah. was commanded to take the

daughters of the last king to a different place and a different

people. Bottom line: The blood of through the body of Zedekiah

and his daughters was taken to the lost 10 tribes of Israel where a

daughter was wed to a king who knew not of his Israelite heritage.

The blood of remained on the throne of Israel even though the

rulers were unaware of it. God's promise to was NOT broken and

continues even today.

Knowing the location of that throne today puts a whole new meaning on

the Bible and its prophesy for today's time. It identifies the House

of Israel.

Doug C.

[Guest guest]

This is exactly what JJ was talking about, was the fact that other people take

the Torah out of context to fit their meanings. While I disagree with

everything you said, you have the right to your opinion, but I can assure you

that Jews know the meaning of their texts. But you see it as the prophesy that

Jesus is Lord, or whatever. That is fine if that is what you want to believe,

but.....

Jews do not accept this interpretation of the text though. Now I must run. We

do not believe that Jesus is Moshiach.

Kelli Armes

Re: Considering the Prophet Yechezkel (Ezekiel)

from the Original Hebrew

> From Yishayahu - Isaiah -

> " 1. And a shoot shall spring forth from the stem of , and a twig

> shall sprout from his roots. "

>

> For the meaning of this -

>

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/15942/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapte\

r-11.htm

----------------------------------------------------------

The verse you have mentioned addresses one of the most important and

least understood messages in the entire Bible. When understood, this

message opens up an entirely new Biblical concept and Biblical

understanding. The explanation is rather lengthy, but quite simple

and straightforward once the veils and misconceptions have been

removed. Unfortunately, the link you suggest for its meaning does not

contribute to that meaning.

The Bible is basically the canonization of a set of rules and laws

given to people by God combined with a history of a single people from

that people's beginning to its end.

was a Jew. He was the father of who later became a King

over all of Israel.

At this point definition becomes necessary. Who are the Israelites?

Who are the Jews? Are they one and the same? If you read Ezekiel,

you will find, among other things, that God told Ezekiel to give

particular messages to the House of Israel and particular messages to

the House of Judah - the Jews. They were DIFFERENT messages. In

fact, for all of the sins of the House of Judah, the sins of the House

of Israel were several times greater and were to be punished to a

greater degree.

Israel was a man. His birth name was . God later changed it to

Israel. All of his descendants are Israelites. Just like all

descendants of " " are s. All of Tom ' descendants

are named . The descends of Israel became numerous enough to be

more than just a family. They became an entire nation, hence the

" ites " suffix - IsraelITES.

Israel, the man, had 12 sons. The eldest of those sons was Judah.

The descendants of the man, Judah, became known as " Jews " . Therefore

ALL Jews ARE Israelites, but all Israelites are NOT Jews.

When the tribe was small - a few carts full of people and some live

stock - this distinction was mostly irrelevant. As the numbers grew,

as wealth was acquired and power increased, the House of Israel (all 12

tribes - actually 13, but that's another story) began to differentiate

itself into the different tribes under the leadership of the household

head - the particular son of Israel.

Judah, part of and part of Levy moved away from the rest of

the tribes and basically set up their own community or nation. At

this point the term " Jew " achieved a greater meaning. The remainder

of the House of Israel became known as " Israelites " while the House of

Judah became known as " Jews " .

Jews are recognized today as Israelites for two reasons. First, they

ARE Israelites, descendants of Israel, and secondly because the

remainder of the tribes of Israel were taken into captivity and

dispersed among the rest of the nations of the world as prophesied in

Ezekiel and elsewhere. They became the " Lost Tribes of Israel " . They

became " lost " , not " gone " . They simply lost their identity as they

were assimilated into the peoples to which they were dispersed. They

didn't cease to exist.

was a Jew. His son was likewise a Jew. was a King

over ALL of Israel. God made a promise to . That promise is

extremely import to Biblical understanding. Because of 's

loyalty God promised that a descendant of 's would ALWAYS

and FOREVER sit on the throne (be a ruler) over the House of ISRAEL.

chapter 33:

" 'The days are coming,' declares the LORD, 'when I will fulfill the

gracious promise I made to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.

15 " 'In those days and at that time I will make a righteous Branch

sprout from 's line; he will do what is just and right in the land.

16 In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will live in

safety. This is the name by which it will be called: The LORD Our

Righteousness.'

17 For this is what the LORD says: ' will never fail to have a

man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel,

18 nor will the priests, who are Levites, ever fail to have a man to

stand before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain

offerings and to present sacrifices.' "

19 The word of the LORD came to :

20 " This is what the LORD says: 'If you can break my covenant with

the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night no

longer come at their appointed time,

21 then my covenant with my servant -- and my covenant with

the Levites who are priests ministering before me -- can be broken and

will no longer have a descendant to reign on his throne.

22 I will make the descendants of my servant and the Levites

who minister before me as countless as the stars of the sky and as

measureless as the sand on the seashore.' "

Notice the separateness of Judah and Israel. Notice also the strength

and irrevocable nature of the promise. This, incidentally, is a

method one can use to prove the Bible false and the NON existence of

God Himself. Prove that Israel was not then and is not now being

ruled by a descendant of , and you have disproved the Bible.

Many say that Jesus, a descendant of , is now sitting on 's

throne. Couple of things wrong with that premise. First, who was on

the throne for the 585 years between the birth of Jesus and the death

of Zedekiah, the last recorded king of Israel?

Zedekiah was killed along with all his male descendants when

Nebuchadnezzar invaded Jerusalem and laid siege to it. This

effectively stopped 's descendant's rule over Israel - at least

according to recorded history.

Now we come to the verse that started this discussion. Read the 17th

chapter of Ezekiel. The twigs and roots and trees etc., refer to the

DAUGHTERS of King Zedekiah. was commanded to take the

daughters of the last king to a different place and a different

people. Bottom line: The blood of through the body of Zedekiah

and his daughters was taken to the lost 10 tribes of Israel where a

daughter was wed to a king who knew not of his Israelite heritage.

The blood of remained on the throne of Israel even though the

rulers were unaware of it. God's promise to was NOT broken and

continues even today.

Knowing the location of that throne today puts a whole new meaning on

the Bible and its prophesy for today's time. It identifies the House

of Israel.

Doug C.

[Guest guest]

OK, Doug, we have all decided that we have enough of this. Let it go,

please.

ew

Re: Considering the Prophet Yechezkel

(Ezekiel) from the Original Hebrew

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:59:10 -0000

> From Yishayahu - Isaiah -

> " 1. And a shoot shall spring forth from the stem of , and a

twig

> shall sprout from his roots. "

>

> For the meaning of this -

>

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/15942/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapte\

r-11.htm

----------------------------------------------------------

The verse you have mentioned addresses one of the most important and

least understood messages in the entire Bible. When understood, this

message opens up an entirely new Biblical concept and Biblical

understanding. The explanation is rather lengthy, but quite simple

and straightforward once the veils and misconceptions have been

removed. Unfortunately, the link you suggest for its meaning does not

contribute to that meaning.

The Bible is basically the canonization of a set of rules and laws

given to people by God combined with a history of a single people

from

that people's beginning to its end.

was a Jew. He was the father of who later became a King

over all of Israel.

At this point definition becomes necessary. Who are the Israelites?

Who are the Jews? Are they one and the same? If you read Ezekiel,

you will find, among other things, that God told Ezekiel to give

particular messages to the House of Israel and particular messages to

the House of Judah - the Jews. They were DIFFERENT messages. In

fact, for all of the sins of the House of Judah, the sins of the

House

of Israel were several times greater and were to be punished to a

greater degree.

Israel was a man. His birth name was . God later changed it to

Israel. All of his descendants are Israelites. Just like all

descendants of " " are s. All of Tom ' descendants

are named . The descends of Israel became numerous enough to be

more than just a family. They became an entire nation, hence the

" ites " suffix - IsraelITES.

Israel, the man, had 12 sons. The eldest of those sons was Judah.

The descendants of the man, Judah, became known as " Jews " . Therefore

ALL Jews ARE Israelites, but all Israelites are NOT Jews.

When the tribe was small - a few carts full of people and some live

stock - this distinction was mostly irrelevant. As the numbers grew,

as wealth was acquired and power increased, the House of Israel (all

12

tribes - actually 13, but that's another story) began to

differentiate

itself into the different tribes under the leadership of the

household

head - the particular son of Israel.

Judah, part of and part of Levy moved away from the rest of

the tribes and basically set up their own community or nation. At

this point the term " Jew " achieved a greater meaning. The remainder

of the House of Israel became known as " Israelites " while the House

of

Judah became known as " Jews " .

Jews are recognized today as Israelites for two reasons. First, they

ARE Israelites, descendants of Israel, and secondly because the

remainder of the tribes of Israel were taken into captivity and

dispersed among the rest of the nations of the world as prophesied in

Ezekiel and elsewhere. They became the " Lost Tribes of Israel " . They

became " lost " , not " gone " . They simply lost their identity as they

were assimilated into the peoples to which they were dispersed. They

didn't cease to exist.

was a Jew. His son was likewise a Jew. was a King

over ALL of Israel. God made a promise to . That promise is

extremely import to Biblical understanding. Because of 's

loyalty God promised that a descendant of 's would ALWAYS

and FOREVER sit on the throne (be a ruler) over the House of ISRAEL.

chapter 33:

" 'The days are coming,' declares the LORD, 'when I will fulfill the

gracious promise I made to the house of Israel and to the house of

Judah.

15 " 'In those days and at that time I will make a righteous Branch

sprout from 's line; he will do what is just and right in the

land.

16 In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will live in

safety. This is the name by which it will be called: The LORD Our

Righteousness.'

17 For this is what the LORD says: ' will never fail to have a

man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel,

18 nor will the priests, who are Levites, ever fail to have a man to

stand before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain

offerings and to present sacrifices.' "

19 The word of the LORD came to :

20 " This is what the LORD says: 'If you can break my covenant with

the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night no

longer come at their appointed time,

21 then my covenant with my servant -- and my covenant with

the Levites who are priests ministering before me -- can be broken

and

will no longer have a descendant to reign on his throne.

22 I will make the descendants of my servant and the Levites

who minister before me as countless as the stars of the sky and as

measureless as the sand on the seashore.' "

Notice the separateness of Judah and Israel. Notice also the strength

and irrevocable nature of the promise. This, incidentally, is a

method one can use to prove the Bible false and the NON existence of

God Himself. Prove that Israel was not then and is not now being

ruled by a descendant of , and you have disproved the Bible.

Many say that Jesus, a descendant of , is now sitting on 's

throne. Couple of things wrong with that premise. First, who was on

the throne for the 585 years between the birth of Jesus and the death

of Zedekiah, the last recorded king of Israel?

Zedekiah was killed along with all his male descendants when

Nebuchadnezzar invaded Jerusalem and laid siege to it. This

effectively stopped 's descendant's rule over Israel - at least

according to recorded history.

Now we come to the verse that started this discussion. Read the 17th

chapter of Ezekiel. The twigs and roots and trees etc., refer to the

DAUGHTERS of King Zedekiah. was commanded to take the

daughters of the last king to a different place and a different

people. Bottom line: The blood of through the body of Zedekiah

and his daughters was taken to the lost 10 tribes of Israel where a

daughter was wed to a king who knew not of his Israelite heritage.

The blood of remained on the throne of Israel even though the

rulers were unaware of it. God's promise to was NOT broken and

continues even today.

Knowing the location of that throne today puts a whole new meaning on

the Bible and its prophesy for today's time. It identifies the House

of Israel.

Doug C.

Sunshine makes the flowers dance.

Anon.

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