Kefir question

[Guest guest]

> Yesterday I put my kefir grains in milk and left overnight. This

> morning the milk smells funny. I left it near the slow cooker

> overnight so that the warmth would speed up the fermentation. The

> grains are spread pretty thinly across several jars.

The proper ratio of grains to milk is 1 to 10 to 1 to 20 grains to milk by

volume.

If you have spread them too thin I would think you have a better chance of the

milk going bad before it is kefirized.

regards, Bruce

[Guest guest]

>

> The proper ratio of grains to milk is 1 to 10 to 1 to 20 grains to milk by

> volume.

I should ammend this. While researching something else I came across a good

kefir manual.

http://www.gewo.applet.cz/health/kefir_manual.htm

They say in this reference that if your grains are growing and thriving you can

go up to a ratio

as high as 60 to 1.

I've never measured it and I hardly ever use a constant volume or ratio. My bad.

: -)

Bruce

[Guest guest]

Tina-

>Has anyone previously gluten-intolerant successfully soaked

>gluten grains and consumed without problems?

Some people, though I'm not sure how many, report doing OK with NT-style

(or traditional) sourdough, but you'd almost certainly be better off without.

-

[Guest guest]

Really? Why would I be better off without it? Just wondering. I

really would like to have some type of bread sometime, or baked

good. What are some other suggestions then?

Thanks,

Tina

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> Tina-

>

> >Has anyone previously gluten-intolerant successfully soaked

> >gluten grains and consumed without problems?

>

> Some people, though I'm not sure how many, report doing OK with NT-

style

> (or traditional) sourdough, but you'd almost certainly be better

off without.

>

>

>

>

> -

[Guest guest]

> >Has anyone previously gluten-intolerant successfully soaked

>>gluten grains and consumed without problems?

>

>Some people, though I'm not sure how many, report doing OK with NT-style

>(or traditional) sourdough, but you'd almost certainly be better off without.

>

>-

There have been tests done, and in fact sourdough properly fermented does have

the gliadin " changed " enough that it doesn't affect gut tissue in vitro.

Nevertheless, most gluten sensitive folks don't do it, if for no other reason

than you have to handle the wheat BEFORE it is fermented (I don't even feed the

chickens wheat, if I can help it). It's really EASY to replace gluten grains

with other grains that aren't so problematic.

And, a lot of people, in more accordance with 's beliefs, really don't think

a person needs a lot of starchy material anyway. Personally my tastes are more

skewed for good kimchi and kefir beer, and wonderful broths and good steak ...

bread is kind of way down there in the cravings of my life. But I can make a

darn good sourdough bread, and I do, without bothering with the gluten grains.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>

>Recently, my 4 year old got a hold of some cheerios and I was so

>upset. It's amazing what foods can do to a person. Anyway, was

>wondering about that, and also about kefir. Could it cause die-off

>reactions when you first start drinking it? My son seems to be

>having a more regressive period also (ADHD type) and just wondering

>if that could be it.

I am casein sensitive (per IgA test), but was able to tolerate kefir in small

quantities. The kefir ferment seems to do WONDERFUL things for gluten/casein

sensitive folks, but then there is the casein issue. It was hard for me to

determine because the casein doesn't cause immediate reactions like the gluten

does: I just get more migraines when I eat more dairy. Some folks solve this by

using goat milk: I solved it by using the kefir grains to ferment apple juice or

other fruit juices. Which I wrote up under " kefir beer " in the FILES section.

For kids, ferment for only one or two days, and you get " kefir pop " which

doesn't have much alcohol. Some folks just pulverize the kefir GRAINS in the

blender to feed to autistic kids, which is also very healing, even though there

is likely casein in the grains.

Anyway, there may be a die-off issue too, but my issues seem to have been mainly

casein. Kefir is amazing stuff though. The rest of my family eats the kefir: I

use the grains to make kefir-beer. The chickens get kefir too, and they lay

about twice as many eggs on the days they get kefir, they love it.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>

> I solved it by using the kefir grains to ferment apple juice or

other fruit juices. Which I wrote up under " kefir beer " in the FILES

section. For kids, ferment for only one or two days, and you get

" kefir pop " which doesn't have much alcohol.

>

Hi Heidi,

Is it possible to kefirize vegetable juice?

[Guest guest]

Tina-

>Really? Why would I be better off without it? Just wondering. I

>really would like to have some type of bread sometime, or baked

>good. What are some other suggestions then?

It's very carby, and why not take a better-safe-than-sorry attitude towards

gluten anyway? It's not like bread is a valuable, nutrient-dense food,

even when made with heirloom strains in the traditional (sourdough) way.

There are a million and one delicious almond flour-based SCD recipes out

there, so if you need bread and cake and whatnot, that's what I'd recommend.

-

[Guest guest]

>

>Hi Heidi,

>

>Is it possible to kefirize vegetable juice?

>

>

Sure. I've not done it, but someone posted some " V8 " type ferments awhile back

(on the kefir group I think it was).

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Heidi. How do you make your sourdough, if I may ask? I

would like to know that recipe. Just started all the fermentation

stuff, but am loving kefir, which is illegal on SCD. I made some

beet kvass and am liking that, mostly because Fallon says it is so

good for you. Can anyone attest to its medicinal value in their own

experience?

Yes, I was on the SCD diet for almost a year very strictly (and

almost 2 years a previous time), but feel that some grains are good

for us. I have had much more energy since adding brown rice and

potatos back to my diet. The SCD is a good diet no doubt, but it's

just really hard, and the almond flour is not soaked, although I

guess you could. The diet also calls to use honey substituted for

sugar in all baking recipes. Fallon says not to use honey for

baking. Any thoughts?

Tina (previous Crohn's, IBS, fibromyalgia, healed through diet and

alternative medicine approach, and by the Lord's grace.)

>

> > >Has anyone previously gluten-intolerant successfully soaked

> >>gluten grains and consumed without problems?

> >

> >Some people, though I'm not sure how many, report doing OK with NT-

style

> >(or traditional) sourdough, but you'd almost certainly be better

off without.

> >

> >-

>

> There have been tests done, and in fact sourdough properly

fermented does have the gliadin " changed " enough that it doesn't

affect gut tissue in vitro. Nevertheless, most gluten sensitive folks

don't do it, if for no other reason than you have to handle the wheat

BEFORE it is fermented (I don't even feed the chickens wheat, if I

can help it). It's really EASY to replace gluten grains with other

grains that aren't so problematic.

>

> And, a lot of people, in more accordance with 's beliefs,

really don't think a person needs a lot of starchy material anyway.

Personally my tastes are more skewed for good kimchi and kefir beer,

and wonderful broths and good steak ... bread is kind of way down

there in the cravings of my life. But I can make a darn good

sourdough bread, and I do, without bothering with the gluten grains.

>

> -- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

The diet also calls to use honey substituted for

> sugar in all baking recipes. Fallon says not to use honey for

> baking. Any thoughts?

Tina,

FWIW the yogis say not to heat honey either. Ayurveda says honey is

very valuable and nutritious raw as well as a good carrier of

nutrients to the cells but a poison to the body if heated and they

don't cook with it. Not sure what Sally's reason is, but I can ask if

you'd like. Also, am so happy to know of your healing success.

B.

[Guest guest]

>Thanks, Heidi. How do you make your sourdough, if I may ask? I

>would like to know that recipe.

Just use whatever recipe you were going to use, but mix the flour with some

liquid and kefir (or kefir-beer) and let it set for a day. I typically don't use

a recipe ... for flat bread you don't need one, just mix flour (any kind of

flour, GF in my case) and liquid. And eggs if you want.

Lately I've taken to pureeing cooked vegies (whatever is left over in my fridge)

and adding them instead of water to my bread. WOW! It makes the breads moist and

fluffy, great texture. Pumpkins and parsnips work the best, so I guess " P "

vegies would be the most useful :-)

> Just started all the fermentation

>stuff, but am loving kefir, which is illegal on SCD. I made some

>beet kvass and am liking that, mostly because Fallon says it is so

>good for you. Can anyone attest to its medicinal value in their own

>experience?

I never successfully made beet kvass (it molded) ... kefir-grain ferments work

the best for me. I would guess a kefir-grain ferment of beets would be great, I

need to try that one.

>Yes, I was on the SCD diet for almost a year very strictly (and

>almost 2 years a previous time), but feel that some grains are good

>for us. I have had much more energy since adding brown rice and

>potatos back to my diet. The SCD is a good diet no doubt, but it's

>just really hard, and the almond flour is not soaked, although I

>guess you could. The diet also calls to use honey substituted for

>sugar in all baking recipes. Fallon says not to use honey for

>baking. Any thoughts?

I don't do well on low-carb myself: maybe the metabolic typing folks have it

right and everyone is different. I usually have potatoes or some kind of starch

in the evening, but I don't like sweet stuff much so don't use honey. I use the

feast/fast diet so most of my food is in a 4-hour window in the evening, which

for some reason my body likes a whole lot (I don't have " hypoglycemia " symptoms

anymore, and it seems I can digest anything as long as it isn't gluten or casein

.... I eat a lot more fat than I used to, it used to make me ill).

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

I just started making my own kefir and am having the opposite problem. My kefir

is as thick as yogurt, making it hard to strain and get the kefir grains. Some

of it is as thick as sour cream and tastes the same too! I had let the first

batch set for 24 hours and have been decreasing the amount of time each day,

hoping that less time will make it thinner.

Connie Hampton <connie@...> wrote:I've started making kefir

from grains I got from someone on this list (Thank

you!) It is much thinner than the stuff I've gotten at the store (Lifeway).

I've been using pasteurized but not homogenized 1% milk. I then tried

homogenized 1% - still thin. Both are tasty, but I do prefer the one

without the floating bits of cultured " butter " - just too rich in spots.

Well, now I'm getting curds at the top next to and around the grains, a

layer of whey and then thin sour milk below. Is this right?

I figure that the store bought stuff has some sort of thickener added, but

when I used to make yoghurt I considered the ones that didn't " yog " - get

thick- to be failures. Am I missing something? Do I need to be using full

fat milk? I have no cow, goat or room for them.

Connie

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

,

Perhaps we should share grains and put both in the milk! Let me know if

that appeals!

Connie Hampton

(510) 601-1343

connie@...

Re: Kefir question

I just started making my own kefir and am having the opposite problem. My

kefir is as thick as yogurt, making it hard to strain and get the kefir

grains. Some of it is as thick as sour cream and tastes the same too! I

had let the first batch set for 24 hours and have been decreasing the amount

of time each day, hoping that less time will make it thinner.

Connie Hampton <connie@...> wrote:I've started making kefir

from grains I got from someone on this list (Thank

you!) It is much thinner than the stuff I've gotten at the store (Lifeway).

I've been using pasteurized but not homogenized 1% milk. I then tried

homogenized 1% - still thin. Both are tasty, but I do prefer the one

without the floating bits of cultured " butter " - just too rich in spots.

Well, now I'm getting curds at the top next to and around the grains, a

layer of whey and then thin sour milk below. Is this right?

I figure that the store bought stuff has some sort of thickener added, but

when I used to make yoghurt I considered the ones that didn't " yog " - get

thick- to be failures. Am I missing something? Do I need to be using full

fat milk? I have no cow, goat or room for them.

Connie

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy,

Your Kefir is perfectly fine. Many times I get busy and leave mine for

days before getting to it. If it tastes too strong for you just add a

little milk to calm it down a bit.

Janet

----- Original Message -----

From: " Kathy-jo " <kaje62@...>

>I made kefir and was gone all day so rather than it sitting out 18-24

> hours. It sat out 31 hours. Is that a problem or can I pour a glass

> for my kids. Just want to make sure.

> Signed, rusty KJP

[Guest guest]

I let mine sit for a good 48 hours often in the cooler months of the year. We

keep the house cooler at night and it takes about that long to get the flavor I

like. So enjoy but it may be a bit stronger tasting than you are use to.

If you don't like it, place a cloth in a strainer and pour the kefir into that

and let it strain. You then have a more tart cream cheese like cheese and can

use that for backing or mixing with some herbs and salt and eat on crackers. The

whey can be used for making kraut or many people even drink it.

~Kimi~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All things are an opportunity to grow, but some times God needs to use a bit of

manure to fertilize us so we can grow better, stronger and more beautiful. ~ KW~

www.Jremedies.com

2 , 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior

Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

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[Guest guest]

,

I have used the biokult as starter in almond milk, culturing it like

kefir, and it has worked fine. I would expect the milk to work as

well. Technically, it is not either kefir or yogurt, as both of those

have very specific cultures, but it will still be great food! Let us

know how it works for you.

mamatonoah wrote:

Hi there.

I've been making my coconut water kefir using a teaspoon of Bio-Kult as

my starter. It's been working really well, but I'd like to branch out

to raw milk.

Does anyone know if I can culture my raw milk with Bio-Kult? If so,

what would it be: yogurt or kefir? Namely, should I ferment it in the

yogurt maker or in the oven with the lightbulb?

Thanks,

K.

[Guest guest]

Well, I left it in the oven for 24 hours. I intended to leave it

longer, but it was already separating.

And...it was gross. I'm not a big fan of the taste of milk kefir

anyway, so I'm probably not the best judge. It didn't thicken all

that much, but it did turn sour.

We put it in a smoothie, and I was sick two hours later. Lots of

nausea, indigestion, and strange feelings.

Back off the casein,

>

> > Hi there.

> >

> > I've been making my coconut water kefir using a teaspoon of Bio-

Kult as

> > my starter. It's been working really well, but I'd like to branch

out

> > to raw milk.

> >

> > Does anyone know if I can culture my raw milk with Bio-Kult? If

so,

> > what would it be: yogurt or kefir? Namely, should I ferment it in

the

> > yogurt maker or in the oven with the lightbulb?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > K.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The grains should be fine for at least a week, probably longer, covered

in kefir and kept in the coldest part of your refrigerator. You mean

put the probiotic powder in when you drink it? That should be fine,

but if you culture with the probiotic added, you could end up with a

kefir hybrid.

>

> It seems I am out of milk and just harvested kefir milk, so I don't

> have any milk to feed my grains with till I make the next batch. Can I

> feed them with kefir milk?

>

> Also, I wonder if it is ok to put probiotic powder in with kefir milk,

> as that would be more convenient?

>

[Guest guest]

For the probiotic powder, I mean put it in after I have removed the

grains. I make my kefir milk in a mason jar (20fl oz?) and it takes

about 5 days or less to consume. So the powder could be in the milk up

to 5 days.

Thanks in advance!

> >

> > It seems I am out of milk and just harvested kefir milk, so I don't

> > have any milk to feed my grains with till I make the next batch. Can I

> > feed them with kefir milk?

> >

> > Also, I wonder if it is ok to put probiotic powder in with kefir milk,

> > as that would be more convenient?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, if you're leaving it in there up to 5 days, you have no way of

knowing what the final composition of flora is (unless you sent it to a

lab) I know Dom has experimented with various things. It would be

interesting to know if the probiotic flora flourished in the kefir or

if the kefir flora held it in check like it does many pathogens. If

it's working for you and you aren't using it in the grains, why not?

Patty

>

> For the probiotic powder, I mean put it in after I have removed the

> grains. I make my kefir milk in a mason jar (20fl oz?) and it takes

> about 5 days or less to consume. So the powder could be in the milk up

> to 5 days.

[Guest guest]

-

> I tried to make some kefir and it did not turn out fizzy but really

> sour

It's only going to turn meaningfully fizzy if you make it in a tightly

sealed container so that the CO2 has nowhere to go.

-

[Guest guest]

I use a slotted or slitted spoon to scoop them out with, that works fine and is

not time consuming.

d'Entremont

 

" Dreams are illustrations from the book your soul is writing about you. "

-Marsha Norman

From: cntryhome529@... <cntryhome529@...>

Subject: Kefir question

Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 12:00 PM

 

Morning all:

Well my first few batches are in the fridge. My question today. I have been

making fruit smoothies and kept it in the fridge for hubby and my kids. I

know that it will still ferment at a slower rate. Does it go bad after a

couple of days. I seen to have to add stevia after the first day to make it

just a bit sweeter.

Also I got my jars over the weekend but can not find a small mesh strainer

that is plastic. Go you just use cheese cloth to catch the grain?

Schlitt

_cntryhome529@ aol.com_ (mailto:cntryhome529@ aol.com)

[Guest guest]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:00 AM, <cntryhome529@...> wrote:

> I have been

>  making fruit smoothies and kept it in the fridge for hubby and my kids. I

> know  that it will still ferment at a slower rate. Does it go bad after a

> couple  of days. I seen to have to add stevia after the first day to make it

> just a  bit sweeter.

I don't think it will become unhealthy, but it might separate into

liquid and solid, depending on the kefir it was made with. While it's

refrigerating, I don't think the bacteria/yeasts will consume a

significant amount of sugar, but let taste be your guide

> Also I got my jars over the weekend but can not find a small mesh strainer

> that is plastic. Go you just use cheese cloth to catch the grain?

If you limit the kefir's time in contact with the strainer, it's not a

big deal to use a stainless steel strainer. Stainless steel reacts

very slowly. I sometimes also fish the grains out by hand--just make

sure your hands are clean.

-Dan

[Guest guest]

You can use a nylon window screen, a nut mylk bag, a straw basket, clean panty

hose, a paint strainer or shop for a nylon or plastic strainer on eBay.

>

>

> > Also I got my jars over the weekend but can not find a small mesh strainer

> > that is plastic. >