Digestive Enzymes

[Guest guest]

Hi. Does anyone know which enzymes aids in fat digestion and where do

you buy it? Thanks. Vicky

_________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

You might want to post that on the board I listed below. They are

very knowledgable and will know the answer.

>

> Hi. Does anyone know which enzymes aids in fat digestion and where

do

> you buy it? Thanks. Vicky

>

> _________________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

go to wwwhacres.com

click on frequently asked question (left side, down a bit)

then scroll down to " What is an enzyme?... "

or go to here

http://www.hacres.com/html/enzyme.html

It is a detailed summary of what an enzyme is, and why they are important

here is a quote from it....

" By eating raw food,(he's referring to fruits and veggies) there is a

relatively small percentage of nutrients that get to the cell level.

According to Dr. H.E. Kirschner, we assimilate from 1 to 35 percent of

nutrients from eating raw food, but by juicing, we assimilate up to 92

percent of these nutrients. Juicing is the easiest way to get nutrients to

the cell level. Predigestion is the key. Our body doesn't have to expend

energy digesting juices like it does with the raw food. The nutrients get to

the cell level within minutes of ingestion. This is why people get such good

results. .. "

The point is when your body is busy making enzyes to digest food it isn't

making enzymes to fight disease.

hope this helps...................laurie w

[ ] Re: digestive enzymes

>

>Hi. Does anyone know which enzymes aids in fat digestion and where do

>you buy it? Thanks. Vicky

>

>_________________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi. Does anyone know which enzymes aids in fat digestion and where

do

> you buy it? Thanks. Vicky

Vicky, Lipase aids in the digestion of fats. We have been using

Tyler Lipase Concentrate-HP 800-869-9705 Best, Forrest's Mom

>

> _________________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I think Enzymaid Plus from Kirkmans.

[Guest guest]

Dear Listmates,

Does anyone know whatever happened to and 's research on

developing a digestive enzyme to help the children who have the

wheat,gluten,casein intolerences? I remember their presentation at the DAN

conference in Cherry Hill, NJ several years ago and they were all gun-ho on

developing such a supplement. I have never heard anything to the positive about

this since.

Thanks to anyone who can reply.

[Guest guest]

>

> Dear Listmates,

> Does anyone know whatever happened to and 's

research on developing a digestive enzyme to help the children who

have the wheat,gluten,casein intolerences? I remember their

presentation at the DAN conference in Cherry Hill, NJ several years

ago and they were all gun-ho on developing such a supplement. I have

never heard anything to the positive about this since.

> Thanks to anyone who can reply.

>

>

>

Dr. Reichelt is developing digestive enzyme for this. It should be

ready in another two years - I do hope so.

There is also a patent application in from Shanahan MR,Venturini AJ,

Daiss JL and Friedman AE(2000) for Peptide diagnostic markers for

human disorders.

Hanne

[Guest guest]

Thank you for this valuable information (:

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

Is this book suitable for an extremely skeptical, almost entirely

authority-trusting girlfriend? <g/2>

>Get him the book " Why stomach acid is good for you " ! Dr. addresses that

>issue particularly, and Prilosec is bad, bad news.

-

[Guest guest]

>Heidi-

>

>Is this book suitable for an extremely skeptical, almost entirely

>authority-trusting girlfriend? <g/2>

Hee hee. Yeah, I think so. He's a board-certified run of the mill doctor, for

the most part (he did get in trouble for prescribing supplements once,

I've heard, but you won't find that in the book.) And mostly all

he talks about is stomach acid (no raw foods or sliced tongue! Though

he does go so far as to say that turmeric can increase stomach acid.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

>Hee hee. Yeah, I think so. He's a board-certified run of the mill doctor, for

>the most part

And the arguments are all sound and backed up by mainstream (or

mainstream-compatible) references? That's what's important. The only time

I've ever succeeded in changing my girlfriend's mind on a health matter was

on the subject of soy. She used to chug tons of soy milk and put other soy

crap in with her flaxseeds and whatnot because the VA told her it was good

for her heart, but finally I found a letter written by a couple dissenting

soy scientists in the FDA, and their position and arguments were solid and

mainstream enough that she hasn't touched a morsel of soy since (except for

a little naturally-fermented tamari soy sauce every now and then, which I

indulge in too, albeit a lot more rarely).

She did agree to try having apple cider vinegar in a glass of water for

heartburn; any idea how much I should give her? (She has massive heartburn

and is going in for exploratory surgery (I forget the name of the

procedure, but they're sticking a scope all the way into the top of her

small intestine, and she's going to have enough anesthesia that I'll have

to take her home afterwards) to see whether she needs a real

operation.) And lately, especially since she had to stop taking the

aciphex preperatory to the scope job, her entire belly area has been

burning and she's had lots of nausea and other fun symptoms.)

>(he did get in trouble for prescribing supplements once,

>I've heard, but you won't find that in the book.) And mostly all

>he talks about is stomach acid (no raw foods or sliced tongue! Though

>he does go so far as to say that turmeric can increase stomach acid.

-

[Guest guest]

>And the arguments are all sound and backed up by mainstream (or

>mainstream-compatible) references? That's what's important. The only time

>I've ever succeeded in changing my girlfriend's mind on a health matter was

>on the subject of soy. She used to chug tons of soy milk and put other soy

>crap in with her flaxseeds and whatnot because the VA told her it was good

>for her heart, but finally I found a letter written by a couple dissenting

>soy scientists in the FDA, and their position and arguments were solid and

>mainstream enough that she hasn't touched a morsel of soy since (except for

>a little naturally-fermented tamari soy sauce every now and then, which I

>indulge in too, albeit a lot more rarely).

Yeah, he has a full 20 pages of references, and it's not that big a book. And

he's really rather conservative. But, he also says that most doctors

will disagree with him -- the trend at the moment is to just decrease

stomach acid, period. He's not paranoid though -- the thing that turned

me off to Barefoot's book was that about half of it was bemoaning how

he was so persecuted, and this book isn't like that.

Mind you -- I DISAGREE with on a lot of topics. One being that

a large percentage of the people diagnosed with " stomach problems "

in Europe are found to be gluten intolerant (which they automatically

test for, in some countries), and doesn't mention it, and

gluten intolerance and low stomach acid seem to be related (and the

symptoms are really, really similar).

But the book saved me personally -- I was getting horrid heartburn,

went to the doctor, and sure enough, they gave me Prilosec, without

bothering to test my stomach acid at all (after checking my heart,

because it REALLY DID feel like a heart attack!). So I tossed the Prilosec

and took his recommendations instead, which worked great. I also

stopped " bend over weeding " after meals, which was the real cause,

but I wouldn't have known that except for having read the book.

>She did agree to try having apple cider vinegar in a glass of water for

>heartburn; any idea how much I should give her? (She has massive heartburn

>and is going in for exploratory surgery (I forget the name of the

>procedure, but they're sticking a scope all the way into the top of her

>small intestine, and she's going to have enough anesthesia that I'll have

>to take her home afterwards) to see whether she needs a real

>operation.) And lately, especially since she had to stop taking the

>aciphex preperatory to the scope job, her entire belly area has been

>burning and she's had lots of nausea and other fun symptoms.)

I don't know that vinegar will help once you GET heartburn. The

trick is to get the meals to digest -- which means taking vinegar

or ginger, or turmeric or enzymes WITH a meal. Vinegar on an

empty stomach will give me hearburn! (as will tea, for some reason).

If her heartburn is THAT bad I have no idea what she should do,

except read the book (and any others you can get) and be informed.

Once the stomach valve gets damaged things can get really bad,

so it's good they are doing an endoscopy.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record though, the IgA food

allergies WILL cause that kind of problem, and it's hard to get

the docs to test for them. Once things get damaged though, having

medical care is probably a good idea.

Anyway, best of luck to both of you. She's lucky she has you

to stick by her! Oh, yeah, she'll need a big pot of chicken

broth after ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/4/03 3:16:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> Mind you -- I DISAGREE with on a lot of topics. One being that

> a large percentage of the people diagnosed with " stomach problems "

> in Europe are found to be gluten intolerant (which they automatically

> test for, in some countries), and doesn't mention it, and

> gluten intolerance and low stomach acid seem to be related (and the

> symptoms are really, really similar).

>

Is this presumed to be caused by gluten? Anyone outlined a possible

mechanism yet? Seems like low-HCl would cause mal-digestion of gluten, in

addition to

lacking the enzymes-- possible non-genetic factor to gluten intolerance.

Chris

[Guest guest]

,

I got this book last week and have read it, albeit very quickly. the author is

one of my favorites. for a real taste of how he approaches things, see " the

patient's book of natural healing " (i checked out a library copy). you can also

check out his clinic website at www.tahoma-clinic.com click on latest articles

and there are two on digestion which will give you a good overview of his

writing on that topic. the book is very thorough, i certainly recommend it. it's

more than just a natural " relief " book.

sonya

Re: Digestive Enzymes

Heidi-

Is this book suitable for an extremely skeptical, almost entirely

authority-trusting girlfriend? <g/2>

>Get him the book " Why stomach acid is good for you " ! Dr. addresses

that

>issue particularly, and Prilosec is bad, bad news.

-

[Guest guest]

Maybe somebody with better bio knowledge than I can answer this question, but

hydrolysis is just a chemical reaction with water and stomach " acid " is

mostly water, with a tiny amount of HCl. So I'd guess that hydrolysis takes

place

there (?). But just denaturing the protein doesn't do it, or casein would be

less harmful when pasteurized but is in fact far more harmful (and raw casein

likely isn't a problem AT ALL, especially cultured, with the exception of a

tiny tiny amount of people who've been so damaged by pasteurized casein.)

Chris

In a message dated 8/4/03 3:02:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> .

>

> Anyway, it is still an open question. I totally agree

> with the concept though -- less stomach acid means

> less denaturing of the gliadin proteins. That might

> hold true for casein too. Regular casein caused problems

> in one experiment, but hydrolized casein didn't --

> and doesn't your stomach acid hydrolize the food?

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

[Guest guest]

,

oh, also, check out amazon.com there are some sample pages--front and back

cover, table of contents, first 4 pages of chapter one, and the index.

sonya

Re: Digestive Enzymes

Heidi-

Is this book suitable for an extremely skeptical, almost entirely

authority-trusting girlfriend? <g/2>

>Get him the book " Why stomach acid is good for you " ! Dr. addresses

that

>issue particularly, and Prilosec is bad, bad news.

-

[Guest guest]

>> Mind you -- I DISAGREE with on a lot of topics. One being that

>> a large percentage of the people diagnosed with " stomach problems "

>> in Europe are found to be gluten intolerant (which they automatically

>> test for, in some countries), and doesn't mention it, and

>> gluten intolerance and low stomach acid seem to be related (and the

>> symptoms are really, really similar).

>>

>

>Is this presumed to be caused by gluten? Anyone outlined a possible

>mechanism yet? Seems like low-HCl would cause mal-digestion of gluten, in

addition to

>lacking the enzymes-- possible non-genetic factor to gluten intolerance.

Chris:

I have no doubt there is a synergistic effect of some sort -- people

tend to get worse symptoms in the 40's, whcn HCL production

starts to drop off. No one has outlined the mechanism. They

HAVE outlined the mechanism whereby gluten intolerance

destroys thyroid and pancreatic production, and blocks the

bile ducts -- the autoimmune antibodies basically attack

the cells all over the place. My assumption is that they also

attack the stomach.

The problem is -- Dr , and all the enterologists,

assume that " HCL production falls off with age " . They

also assume " the villi of the small intestine atrophy

with age " . OK, both are based on observation -- in America,

most older folks have atrophied villi. But 1. That same

damage will happen in healthy folks that are given

a lot of gluten and 2. People with severe damage, old

or not, REGROW their villi in a matter of months in

a non-gluten diet.

So to me that says, most Americans have atrophied

villi, but it isn't from age per se. So how do you trust

this " HCL production falls off with age " ? It might, or

it might not, but I think you'd have to sample the

HCL from old folks in, say, old China or some other

spot where wheat hasn't become the national food.

Anyway, it is still an open question. I totally agree

with the concept though -- less stomach acid means

less denaturing of the gliadin proteins. That might

hold true for casein too. Regular casein caused problems

in one experiment, but hydrolized casein didn't --

and doesn't your stomach acid hydrolize the food?

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/4/03 6:58:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> ----->pepsin is also made from pepsinogen in the stomach, which also begins

> breaking down proteins in the stomach.

So what does the pepsin do? Does it *hydrolize* the protein? Any idea?

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/4/03 6:58:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> ----->pepsin is also made from pepsinogen in the stomach, which also begins

> breaking down proteins in the stomach.

I apologize for asking the question I just asked, when I could have just

looked it up.

Pepsin does exactly that-- catalyzes the hydrolysis of proteins to form

polypeptides.

It's optimum pH is 1.5-2. Presumably low HCl levels would interfere with

pepsinogen conversion, and I'd imagine drinking a glass of water with a meal

would raise that pH pretty high.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/4/03 9:08:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> I don't know either -- I've read a bit about " hydrolyzing " proteins with

> acids,

I'll share my limited knowledge from chemistry-- hydrolizing is a reaction

with water, and usually the acids involved aren't acids per se but big metal

ions that cling to water molecules so strongly that they weaken the bonds in the

water molecule itself, and cause an H+ to ionize off one of the water

molecules. So the hydrolysis of a metal ion is another way of saying the metal

ion

causes water to act as an acid. No doubt there is a relation to acid-- and I'm

not sure how the enzymatic hydrolysis differs from metal hydrolysis, but

since the enzymes need a certain pH, then the acid is indirectly hydrolizing by

creating a favorable environment for the enzyme precursors to become enzymes.

so > I'm assuming they can, but exactly what defines the difference between

> denaturing and hydrolysis I'm not sure.

I guess hydrolysis is a form of denaturing. Denaturing just means it loses

its shape. Definitely doesn't have to happen with hydrolysis but could.

In any event, it seems the texts

> talk about what the stomach does as " denaturing " and the enzymatic

> processes

> to be " hydrolysis " :

But technically there is no enzymatic process. The enzyme just serves to

speed up the reaction. At an even more technical level that's not entirely true

because the process of binding to the substrate itself could even be described

as a reaction of some sort but for any reasonable level of detail avoiding

semantics the enzyme doesn't actually do any hydrolysis, it just catalyzes the

hydrolysis.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>>>>Maybe somebody with better bio knowledge than I can answer this

question, but hydrolysis is just a chemical reaction with water and stomach

" acid " is

mostly water, with a tiny amount of HCl. So I'd guess that hydrolysis takes

place

there (?).

----->pepsin is also made from pepsinogen in the stomach, which also begins

breaking down proteins in the stomach.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Maybe somebody with better bio knowledge than I can answer this question, but

hydrolysis is just a chemical reaction with water and stomach " acid " is

mostly water, with a tiny amount of HCl. So I'd guess that hydrolysis takes

place

there (?). But just denaturing the protein doesn't do it, or casein would be

less harmful when pasteurized but is in fact far more harmful (and raw casein

likely isn't a problem AT ALL, especially cultured, with the exception of a

tiny tiny amount of people who've been so damaged by pasteurized casein.)

Chris

I don't know either -- I've read a bit about " hydrolyzing " proteins with acids,

so

I'm assuming they can, but exactly what defines the difference between

denaturing and hydrolysis I'm not sure. In any event, it seems the texts

talk about what the stomach does as " denaturing " and the enzymatic processes

to be " hydrolysis " :

http://ntmain.utb.edu/GPELTZ/Nutrition/Chapter%206%20-%20HN.htm

Protein is denatured in the stomach so digestive enzymes can attack peptide

bonds. Digestive enzymes in the small intestine continue to hydrolyze protein to

single amino acids. rs transport the amino acids into the cells.

Anyway, sounds like you need both to digest casein. Hydrolyzed

casein is used in a lot of experiments where it seems

to have better effects than regular casein -- of course both

are " cooked " so who knows. One example though is below.

Hydrolyzed casein doesn't seem to have the negative

effects of plain casein, by which one could extrapolate that

IF a person denatured and hydrolyzed it ok then it would

be healthier.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL & _udi=B6WN4-4869WKN-F & _coverD\

ate=03%2F31%2F2003 & _alid=106320337 & _rdoc=1 & _fmt= & _orig=search & _qd=1 & _cdi=6952 & _s\

ort=d & view=c & _acct=C000050221 & _version=1 & _urlVersion=0 & _userid=10 & md5=9e93577097\

910bb5ccbdc6784fa787e9

From earlier studies it appears that weaning associated changes in the animal's

physiology and that of the pancreas in particular, render diabetes-prone

Bio-Breeding (DP-BB) rats susceptible to the induction and development of

insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus (IDDM). In this study we tested whether a

short-term dietary adjustment at weaning would influence the development of

diabetes later in life. For this purpose a diet in which the protein source was

replaced with hydrolyzed casein (HC) was given to the rats from weaning to 60

days of age and from weaning to 130 days of age. The control group received the

cereal-based standard diet throughout the experiment. The short-term dietary

adjustment resulted in a significant delay of diabetes development. The rats fed

the HC diet from weaning to 130 days of age showed a lower incidence of diabetes

at 130 days of age

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>>>I apologize for asking the question I just asked, when I could have just

looked it up.

Pepsin does exactly that-- catalyzes the hydrolysis of proteins to form

polypeptides.

It's optimum pH is 1.5-2. Presumably low HCl levels would interfere with

pepsinogen conversion,

--->yes, that's what i've read. i think i've also read that protein actually

*stimulates* HCl production, so vegans or those on a low protein diet may

have low HCl. but i think it can be increased by re-introducing more protein

into the diet.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

>I guess hydrolysis is a form of denaturing. Denaturing just means it loses

>its shape. Definitely doesn't have to happen with hydrolysis but could.

>

>In any event, it seems the texts

>> talk about what the stomach does as " denaturing " and the enzymatic

>> processes

>> to be " hydrolysis " :

>

>But technically there is no enzymatic process. The enzyme just serves to

>speed up the reaction. At an even more technical level that's not entirely

true

>because the process of binding to the substrate itself could even be described

>as a reaction of some sort but for any reasonable level of detail avoiding

>semantics the enzyme doesn't actually do any hydrolysis, it just catalyzes the

>hydrolysis.

>

>Chris

Thanks for the in-depth explanation! It's coming back, slowly ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>But technically there is no enzymatic process. The enzyme just serves to

>speed up the reaction. At an even more technical level that's not entirely

true

>because the process of binding to the substrate itself could even be

described

>as a reaction of some sort but for any reasonable level of detail avoiding

>semantics the enzyme doesn't actually do any hydrolysis, it just catalyzes

the

>hydrolysis.

----->chris, i'm not sure i follow....pepsin is an enzyme, but you're saying

it doesn't actually do any of the " breaking down " of protein itself, but

only assists the HCl in doing so?

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------