Re: High BUN/Creatinine Ratio

[Guest guest]

Hi ~~

I think a high BUN can be caused by dehydration. If has had a lot of

loose stools, that could make sense. If he's sleeping a lot, that would make

sense too. Maybe it would be best to try to talk to another doctor so you

don't have to wait all weekend~~

Belinda

Lacey's mom, (14, CdLS, IgG deficiency)

Pittsburg, CA

[Guest guest]

Hi ~~

I think a high BUN can be caused by dehydration. If has had a lot of

loose stools, that could make sense. If he's sleeping a lot, that would make

sense too. Maybe it would be best to try to talk to another doctor so you

don't have to wait all weekend~~

Belinda

Lacey's mom, (14, CdLS, IgG deficiency)

Pittsburg, CA

[Guest guest]

- the bun/creatinine ratio has nothing to do with kidney function

directly but with muscle wasting. Macey's has

been over 40 for the past 3 yrs and we are told that it just means she's had

some muscle wasting from former problems.

The BUN and Creatinine themselves would need to be elevated, not depressed for

there to be renal problems. I hope this

sets your mind alittle at ease. To tell you the truth it took asking 3

different doctors before one actually knew what

the ratio indicated anyway. The sodium elevation could be a lab technician

reading. The Potassium might be rechecked.

The AST could be from a variety of meds that are metabolized in the liver

(specifically the ones that come to mind are

Advil and IVIG). The WBC could have been something viral and the ANC looks good

(most docs get concerned when it is

around 750 but there are alot of labs that list the low normal at 1000).

Ursula Holleman

Macey's mom (7 yr. old with CVID, asthma, sinus disease, GERD, Diabetes

Insipidus, colonic inertia)

http://members.cox.net/maceyh

Immune Deficiency Foundation - Peer Contact for GA

http://www.primaryimmune.org

/

[Guest guest]

:

My first thought is don't appear too worried (when you talk to the doc) about

numbers that are just barely off the normal -- that seems to annoy them. I

speak from experience as I used to obsess about numbers that weren't

precisely in the normal range but that docs felt were not far enough out to

warrant concern. Just ask in a matter of fact tone about those (be a

scientist!).

This will be less helpful than I'd like, but I know there are some levels

that can come out looking abnormal but are just a brief thing that happened

because the child was crying hard during the blood draw and upsetting their

blood gasses or something -- I can't remember which ones, though!!! Sorry.

(mom to Kate, born 9/19/02; and , age 3-3/4 -- currently has

polysaccharide antibody def, previously had transient IgG, IgA, t-cell &

other defs)

[Guest guest]

My 6 year olds platelet count has been steadily increasing. The last

count was 750. I too questioned this. The doctors said when there is

inflammation in the body it will make the platelet count rise.

is an inflammatory disease, so the doctors say. My son had a high ck

(muscle enzyme) count. The doctors really couldn't explain this.

[Guest guest]

Please define " racing. "

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of aviano237

After experiencing some racing this week (I've learned to try to just

keep moving and exercising to burn it up), I had (as of yest)

overwhelming tiredness and heavy (what I call kicked in) chest feeling.

This week, didn't seem to want to go away..so I called my GP for an

app't sometime in near future. To their credit, they told me to come

right in..ran an EKG..it was normal. They were supposed to do CPK

(which in the past has been elevated when I've had this " feeling " ), but

I DON'T have results back for that (will call Mon a.m.). However, and

this is my question, although they told me everything was normal (I

never take this at face value and ALWAYS ask for copies of my labs), I

had an elevated BUN creatinine ration, borderline low creatinine, and

potassium was 3.7 after really trying to eat potassium rich foods for

quite a few days..

Any thoughts, anybody?

[Guest guest]

how much do you weigh, how old are you and of what ethnic group.

Needed to interpret these numbers.

How much meat do you eat?

Has K been low in the past?

On Apr 18, 2008, at 5:19 PM, aviano237 wrote:

> I

> had an elevated BUN creatinine ration, borderline low creatinine, and

> potassium was 3.7 after really trying to eat potassium rich foods for

> quite a few days..

May your pressure be low!

CE Grim BS, MS, MD

High Blood Pressure Consulting

Specializing in Difficult to Manage High Blood Pressure

Consult the following at for details

bloodpressureline

hyperaldosteronism

[Guest guest]

Dr. G:

I am Caucasian (German/Scot/Irish ancestry). I am 5'8 " and weigh 138

lbs (about 18 lbs high for me and much of it middle). While I DO

have diabetes (and incidentally, excess androgenic activity from both

maternal and paternal genes..) on both sides of family..I eat VERY

healthily..When racing was at its worst fasting glucose's were

borderline, but are now in low 80's..my hemoglobin A1C is mid 5's. I

have had ultrasounds of ovaries..they are fine. Brother also has

high testosterone..high normal DHEAs. I have probably on average 8

oz of lean protein daily..Potassium has been low normal MANY times in

the past (3.5, 3.6) but never LOW that we've been able to catch.

On Thurs was 3.7 with me trying to load potassium rich foods.

Current BP's are 110's/mid 70's.

Thank you,

Angie

>

> > I

> > had an elevated BUN creatinine ration, borderline low

creatinine, and

> > potassium was 3.7 after really trying to eat potassium rich

foods for

> > quite a few days..

> May your pressure be low!

>

> CE Grim BS, MS, MD

> High Blood Pressure Consulting

> Specializing in Difficult to Manage High Blood Pressure

> Consult the following at for details

> bloodpressureline

> hyperaldosteronism

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Val:

For me, " racing " is not fast heartbeat. Karin, Lori, (from

Intolerance Board) all share the same " feeling " from racing. I feel

like I'm plugged into an adrenaline machine that will not shut

off..like I've had a triple Espresso on an empty stomach..This is NOT

anxiety, although sometimes anxiety accompanies..I can have this

feeling and feel perfectly calm in my head..Another way to describe

it is an intense, agitative euphoria that won't shut off..

It's at it worst when I'm exposed to allergens, or when I try to add

in estrogen OR progesterone (or I produce a little of my own)..it is

NOT mania..I've never had anything like this until post

progesterone/late peri. If I stop the exogenous stimulation, it will

stop.

I do sometimes have some palps/rapid heartbeat, but don't consider

this a primary " symptom " .

Some of the patients on Cushie's board also describe this

feeling..Friedman seems to think for Karin, it is either Cushing's or

something that a beta blocker can take care of..If the BB helps..then

it probably ISN'T Cushing's..I'm still waiting on last saliva and

urinaries during serious " race " of 2 weeks ago.

Angie

>

> Please define " racing. "

>

> Val

>

> From: hyperaldosteronism

> [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of aviano237

>

>

> After experiencing some racing this week (I've learned to try to

just

> keep moving and exercising to burn it up), I had (as of yest)

> overwhelming tiredness and heavy (what I call kicked in) chest

feeling.

> This week, didn't seem to want to go away..so I called my GP for an

> app't sometime in near future. To their credit, they told me to

come

> right in..ran an EKG..it was normal. They were supposed to do CPK

> (which in the past has been elevated when I've had this " feeling " ),

but

> I DON'T have results back for that (will call Mon a.m.). However,

and

> this is my question, although they told me everything was normal (I

> never take this at face value and ALWAYS ask for copies of my

labs), I

> had an elevated BUN creatinine ration, borderline low creatinine,

and

> potassium was 3.7 after really trying to eat potassium rich foods

for

> quite a few days..

> Any thoughts, anybody?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

With the lowish K I would measure plasam renin and aldosterone.

Recall that DM adult type is a combination of your genes and how you

feed and exercise your roots.

How high was your HbA1c before you started treating the DM?

On Apr 19, 2008, at 7:33 AM, aviano237 wrote:

> Dr. G:

> I am Caucasian (German/Scot/Irish ancestry). I am 5'8 " and weigh 138

> lbs (about 18 lbs high for me and much of it middle). While I DO

> have diabetes (and incidentally, excess androgenic activity from both

> maternal and paternal genes..) on both sides of family..I eat VERY

> healthily..When racing was at its worst fasting glucose's were

> borderline, but are now in low 80's..my hemoglobin A1C is mid 5's. I

> have had ultrasounds of ovaries..they are fine. Brother also has

> high testosterone..high normal DHEAs. I have probably on average 8

> oz of lean protein daily..Potassium has been low normal MANY times in

> the past (3.5, 3.6) but never LOW that we've been able to catch.

> On Thurs was 3.7 with me trying to load potassium rich foods.

> Current BP's are 110's/mid 70's.

> Thank you,

> Angie

>

>

> >

> > > I

> > > had an elevated BUN creatinine ration, borderline low

> creatinine, and

> > > potassium was 3.7 after really trying to eat potassium rich

> foods for

> > > quite a few days..

> > May your pressure be low!

> >

> > CE Grim BS, MS, MD

> > High Blood Pressure Consulting

> > Specializing in Difficult to Manage High Blood Pressure

> > Consult the following at for details

> > bloodpressureline

> > hyperaldosteronism

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Would be suprised if post racing hormones would change much.

Assume you have been tested for pheochromocytoma at some point?

On Apr 19, 2008, at 7:46 AM, aviano237 wrote:

> Val:

> For me, " racing " is not fast heartbeat. Karin, Lori, (from

> Intolerance Board) all share the same " feeling " from racing. I feel

> like I'm plugged into an adrenaline machine that will not shut

> off..like I've had a triple Espresso on an empty stomach..This is NOT

> anxiety, although sometimes anxiety accompanies..I can have this

> feeling and feel perfectly calm in my head..Another way to describe

> it is an intense, agitative euphoria that won't shut off..

> It's at it worst when I'm exposed to allergens, or when I try to add

> in estrogen OR progesterone (or I produce a little of my own)..it is

> NOT mania..I've never had anything like this until post

> progesterone/late peri. If I stop the exogenous stimulation, it will

> stop.

>

> I do sometimes have some palps/rapid heartbeat, but don't consider

> this a primary " symptom " .

>

> Some of the patients on Cushie's board also describe this

> feeling..Friedman seems to think for Karin, it is either Cushing's or

> something that a beta blocker can take care of..If the BB helps..then

> it probably ISN'T Cushing's..I'm still waiting on last saliva and

> urinaries during serious " race " of 2 weeks ago.

> Angie

>

> >

> > Please define " racing. "

> >

> > Val

> >

> > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of aviano237

> >

> >

> > After experiencing some racing this week (I've learned to try to

> just

> > keep moving and exercising to burn it up), I had (as of yest)

> > overwhelming tiredness and heavy (what I call kicked in) chest

> feeling.

> > This week, didn't seem to want to go away..so I called my GP for an

> > app't sometime in near future. To their credit, they told me to

> come

> > right in..ran an EKG..it was normal. They were supposed to do CPK

> > (which in the past has been elevated when I've had this " feeling " ),

> but

> > I DON'T have results back for that (will call Mon a.m.). However,

> and

> > this is my question, although they told me everything was normal (I

> > never take this at face value and ALWAYS ask for copies of my

> labs), I

> > had an elevated BUN creatinine ration, borderline low creatinine,

> and

> > potassium was 3.7 after really trying to eat potassium rich foods

> for

> > quite a few days..

> > Any thoughts, anybody?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dr. G:

Hemo A1C has never been higher than 5.7..is now 5.4 (as of Jan).

Also, aldo/renin were both done about two weeks ago..Aldo was 17.1,

Renin 1.22. LabCorp.

Angie

> > >

> > > > I

> > > > had an elevated BUN creatinine ration, borderline low

> > creatinine, and

> > > > potassium was 3.7 after really trying to eat potassium rich

> > foods for

> > > > quite a few days..

> > > May your pressure be low!

> > >

> > > CE Grim BS, MS, MD

> > > High Blood Pressure Consulting

> > > Specializing in Difficult to Manage High Blood Pressure

> > > Consult the following at for details

> > > bloodpressureline

> > > hyperaldosteronism

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hormones/indicators that change during racing are: TSI, serum T, free

T, possibly cortisol, all increase..don't know if aldo/renin changes

at this point since I've only measured it once..two days prior

to " race " episode.

> > >

> > > Please define " racing. "

> > >

> > > Val

> > >

> > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of

aviano237

> > >

> > >

> > > After experiencing some racing this week (I've learned to try

to

> > just

> > > keep moving and exercising to burn it up), I had (as of yest)

> > > overwhelming tiredness and heavy (what I call kicked in) chest

> > feeling.

> > > This week, didn't seem to want to go away..so I called my GP

for an

> > > app't sometime in near future. To their credit, they told me to

> > come

> > > right in..ran an EKG..it was normal. They were supposed to do

CPK

> > > (which in the past has been elevated when I've had

this " feeling " ),

> > but

> > > I DON'T have results back for that (will call Mon a.m.).

However,

> > and

> > > this is my question, although they told me everything was

normal (I

> > > never take this at face value and ALWAYS ask for copies of my

> > labs), I

> > > had an elevated BUN creatinine ration, borderline low

creatinine,

> > and

> > > potassium was 3.7 after really trying to eat potassium rich

foods

> > for

> > > quite a few days..

> > > Any thoughts, anybody?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

And yes, tested for pheo, but not during " racing " ..everything fine;

however DURING racing, a doc trying to help me with they thought was

anxiety wanted me to take amino acid combos..they did

neurotransmitter testing and epi/norepi were highest they had ever

seen..however, twice (again not during race) urine cats/mets all

normal.

Angie

> > >

> > > Please define " racing. "

> > >

> > > Val

> > >

> > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of

aviano237

> > >

> > >

> > > After experiencing some racing this week (I've learned to try

to

> > just

> > > keep moving and exercising to burn it up), I had (as of yest)

> > > overwhelming tiredness and heavy (what I call kicked in) chest

> > feeling.

> > > This week, didn't seem to want to go away..so I called my GP

for an

> > > app't sometime in near future. To their credit, they told me to

> > come

> > > right in..ran an EKG..it was normal. They were supposed to do

CPK

> > > (which in the past has been elevated when I've had

this " feeling " ),

> > but

> > > I DON'T have results back for that (will call Mon a.m.).

However,

> > and

> > > this is my question, although they told me everything was

normal (I

> > > never take this at face value and ALWAYS ask for copies of my

> > labs), I

> > > had an elevated BUN creatinine ration, borderline low

creatinine,

> > and

> > > potassium was 3.7 after really trying to eat potassium rich

foods

> > for

> > > quite a few days..

> > > Any thoughts, anybody?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

A person with a normal HbA1c does not have DM.

What are normal lab values for the aldo and renin in that lab? What

drugs were you on and what diet were you eating when they were done?

On Apr 19, 2008, at 11:54 AM, aviano237 wrote:

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > > I

> > > > > had an elevated BUN creatinine ration, borderline low

> > > creatinine, and

> > > > > potassium was 3.7 after really trying to eat potassium rich

> > > foods for

> > > > > quite a few days..

> > > > May your pressure be low!

> > > >

> > > > CE Grim BS, MS, MD

> > > > High Blood Pressure Consulting

> > > > Specializing in Difficult to Manage High Blood Pressure

> > > > Consult the following at for details

> > > > bloodpressureline

> > > > hyperaldosteronism

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Most of these have diurnal variation by time of day as well as

standing or supine and need to be sure this is not also a source of the

changes in levels.

I assume these have been measured just before and then just after

racing to document that the racing was associated with the changes?

On Apr 19, 2008, at 11:59 AM, aviano237 wrote:

> Hormones/indicators that change during racing are: TSI, serum T, free

> T, possibly cortisol, all increase..don't know if aldo/renin changes

> at this point since I've only measured it once..two days prior

> to " race " episode.

>

May your pressure be low!

CE Grim BS, MS, MD

High Blood Pressure Consulting

Specializing in Difficult to Manage High Blood Pressure

Consult the following at for details

bloodpressureline

hyperaldosteronism

[Guest guest]

Sounds like you have an unstable sympathetic nervous system.

Have you looked at autonomic dysfunction sites?

On Apr 19, 2008, at 12:01 PM, aviano237 wrote:

> And yes, tested for pheo, but not during " racing " ..everything fine;

> however DURING racing, a doc trying to help me with they thought was

> anxiety wanted me to take amino acid combos..they did

> neurotransmitter testing and epi/norepi were highest they had ever

> seen..however, twice (again not during race) urine cats/mets all

> normal.

> Angie

>

> > > >

> > > > Please define " racing. "

> > > >

> > > > Val

> > > >

> > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of

> aviano237

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > After experiencing some racing this week (I've learned to try

> to

> > > just

> > > > keep moving and exercising to burn it up), I had (as of yest)

> > > > overwhelming tiredness and heavy (what I call kicked in) chest

> > > feeling.

> > > > This week, didn't seem to want to go away..so I called my GP

> for an

> > > > app't sometime in near future. To their credit, they told me to

> > > come

> > > > right in..ran an EKG..it was normal. They were supposed to do

> CPK

> > > > (which in the past has been elevated when I've had

> this " feeling " ),

> > > but

> > > > I DON'T have results back for that (will call Mon a.m.).

> However,

> > > and

> > > > this is my question, although they told me everything was

> normal (I

> > > > never take this at face value and ALWAYS ask for copies of my

> > > labs), I

> > > > had an elevated BUN creatinine ration, borderline low

> creatinine,

> > > and

> > > > potassium was 3.7 after really trying to eat potassium rich

> foods

> > > for

> > > > quite a few days..

> > > > Any thoughts, anybody?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

How does one do " neurotransmitter testing " ?

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of aviano237

And yes, tested for pheo, but not during " racing " ..everything fine;

however DURING racing, a doc trying to help me with they thought was

anxiety wanted me to take amino acid combos..they did

neurotransmitter testing and epi/norepi were highest they had ever

seen..however, twice (again not during race) urine cats/mets all

normal.

Angie

>

> Would be suprised if post racing hormones would change much.

> Assume you have been tested for pheochromocytoma at some point?

[Guest guest]

OK now I recall I think. You have early PA. Note that excess aldo

seems to have a strong effect on insulin resistance AKA adult diabetes.

On Apr 19, 2008, at 1:47 PM, aviano237 wrote:

> Dr. Grim:

> I was the one that posted the aldo/renin (question about supine).

> My diet was normal..only meds were thyroid.

> Adult Normal Salt Intake Renin values were Upright 1.31 - 3.95;

> Supine .15 - 2.33 (ng/ml/hr)

> Adult Normal Aldo Levles were supine: 1.0 - 16.0; upright 4.0 - 31.0.

>

> Again my renin was 1.22, aldo 17.1 (lab marked as high). I was NOT

> laying down..but if upright values are used, my renin is low; if

> supine, aldo is high.

>

> I know that I do not have diabetes now..strong family history, both

> sides..fasting blood sugars (during worst racing episodes) were

> borderline. Now are good.

>

> Angie

>

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > had an elevated BUN creatinine ration, borderline low

> > > > > creatinine, and

> > > > > > > potassium was 3.7 after really trying to eat potassium

> rich

> > > > > foods for

> > > > > > > quite a few days..

> > > > > > May your pressure be low!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > CE Grim BS, MS, MD

> > > > > > High Blood Pressure Consulting

> > > > > > Specializing in Difficult to Manage High Blood Pressure

> > > > > > Consult the following at for details

> > > > > > bloodpressureline

> > > > > > hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dr. Grim:

You recall correctly. I've got an Excel spreadsheet that I will

update with labs..folks are welcome to use format if they wish. My

docs love it because they don't have to search through reams of

paperwork (or their memory) to look at outliers.

I agree that perhaps the next step for me might be to see Dr.

Svetkey. I am concerned, however about consistently elevated

testosterone levels..is this PA? or hyperplasia? both? I know you

can't say for sure and the question is somewhat rhetorical.

BTW, the help and dedication that you give this group is awesome.

Thank you,

Angie

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > had an elevated BUN creatinine ration, borderline low

> > > > > > creatinine, and

> > > > > > > > potassium was 3.7 after really trying to eat

potassium

> > rich

> > > > > > foods for

> > > > > > > > quite a few days..

> > > > > > > May your pressure be low!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > CE Grim BS, MS, MD

> > > > > > > High Blood Pressure Consulting

> > > > > > > Specializing in Difficult to Manage High Blood Pressure

> > > > > > > Consult the following at for details

> > > > > > > bloodpressureline

> > > > > > > hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >