Flexibility, Shoulder Pain, Powerlifting Methods

[Guest guest]

My problem is this:

I can easily achieve the side splits (suspended on chairs, even...) after a

brief warm-up and 2-3 contract-relax sequences. When cold, I can barely do a

side-kick at waist-level, and when warmed up and supple...close to

head-level... There's also a slight discomfort in my hip joints when kicking

- is this a technique issue, a dysfunctional-joint issue, or do I simply

need to emphasize dynamic flexibility in my workouts (de-emphasizing

PNF-stretching accordingly)?

Secondly - and nothing new on this list - I've been experiencing some

serious shoulder pain lately. Doing behind-neck shoulder presses and

military presses, squats, and bench-presses...I noticed a growing sense of

discomfort in my left shoulder joint. It occurs in the bottom 1/3 of the

bench and shoulder press, with a popping sound to match (which I haven't

noticed before). When doing squats, I keep a wide grip on the bar, and the

external rotation is extremely painful in my shoulder - I'm forced to

slooowwwly release my grip after a set to avoid the searing pain which

occurs.

I don't have access to any ART-practicioner in my area (or country,

to my knowledge), so my treatment so far has consisted of a one week

lay-off, anti-inflammatory drugs, rotator cuff exercises, and passive

stretching of the related muscles surrounding the shoulder joint. Could it

be a pattern-overload syndrome (in fear of mentioning Chek) Any advice - or

do I have to go see a chiropractor to remedy this?

I currently implement ' Westside training ideas in my program design,

but modify a few variables due to bench shirts being illegal in norwegian

competitions. Also, my triceps are my strong point - I can close-grip bench

nearly as much as my regular bench (345 vs. 360). To target my weakness

(which would be chest) I do wide- and regular-grip bench and board presses

along with dumbell work - but then again, my left shoulder starts to act

up... - any other ideas?

My lats are also strong - I can easily do 6 reps of

chin-ups with 120lbs hanging around my waist at a bodyweight of 230lbs.

My hips are really sore if I squat and deadlift the ' way, so I feel

more comfortable with a medium- to narrow-stance in these lifts.

Are there any issues you would like to address regarding the '

program? There doesn't seem to be any specific loading- and unloading phases

- is this adviceable to implement efficiency-wise? I know this topic has

been discussed before, but you all know how new ideas and a general

understandings will surface as time goes by.

I guess you can't argue with his success ratio, and Dr. Siff will probably agree

with many of ' ideas since they are based on Supertraining...but still -

comments appreciated...

Regards,

B€  ørge A. Fagerli, BSc.

Trondheim, Norway

[Guest guest]

From: " B€  ’  €  ørge Fagerli " <bfagerli@...>

> My problem is this:

>

> I can easily achieve the side splits (suspended on chairs, even...) after

> a brief warm-up and 2-3 contract-relax sequences. When cold, I can barely do

> a side-kick at waist-level, and when warmed up and supple...close to

> head-level... There's also a slight discomfort in my hip joints when

> kicking - is this a technique issue, a dysfunctional-joint issue, or do I

> simply need to emphasize dynamic flexibility in my workouts (de-emphasizing

> PNF-stretching accordingly)?

Teaching kicking is a specialty of mine. However, without a bit more

information it is difficult to suggest anything. Relative beginners don't

know quite what to expect from kicking head high. For now, let's assume

that you have a bit of experience.

Without seeing the actual technique of your kick, I don't think anyone could

knowledgeably comment on your situation. It SOUNDS like flexibility is not

a problem with you. Let's look at technique for a minute.

Most people do a side kick in one of two manners. One way is to snap the

kick off from the side of the hip with the supporting foot still

perpendicular to the line of attack. The kicking foot ends up parallel to

the floor. The good thing about this method is that it is fast. The bad

news is that it has no stopping power against a charging opponent and is

very difficult to raise above chest level. The hip tends to bind up

terribly.

Version two is a rolling movement. The leg is raised to a level parallel to

the floor with the knee pointed toward the chest. As the foot extends

toward the target, the heel of the supporting foot rotates toward the

target. The hip rotates so that it is pointing toward the target. The foot

can either end up parallel to the floor or in a toe-down position. The

rolling action of the supporting foot, hip, and kicking foot happens in one

motion. This method takes a fraction of a second longer but your opponent

will definitely know that he got hit.

Very flexible karate practioners have a bit of a tendency to fall into the

first group because they can (sort of) get away with it. There are other

things an instructor would look for as the kick is being performed.

I would still like to know several things.

1. How long have you been studying karate?

2. What style do you study?

3. Which of the two previous kicking methods do you use?

Good luck,

Jeff Gullett

[Guest guest]

>I would still like to know several things.

>1. How long have you been studying karate?

>2. What style do you study?

Shotokan - 2 years, Kyokushinkai - 1 year, Taijutsu(Ninjutsu) - 6 months,

Tae Kwon Do - 4 years, in chronological order with some overlap.

>3. Which of the two previous kicking methods do you use?

The second one. But to clarify my flexibility problem: I can lay on my back

with my legs straight, resting against a wall - let them drop to each side,

and still only reach maybe 120 degrees. If I rest there, they gradually drop

lower and lower until I'm nearly in a full split.

Thus, the adductors (and other related muscles) tense up if they're

stretched to fast - such as in a side kick, spin kick, roundhouse kick etc.

with an accompanying pain/stiffness in my hips. What good is a spectacular

kick like that if you can only do it knee-high when cold?

Siff, Staley, others? (As for my other questions also)

Thank you,

Borge Fagerli, BSc

Trondheim, Norway

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[Guest guest]

From: " B€  ørge Fagerli " <bfagerli@...>

> I can easily achieve the side splits (suspended on chairs, even...) after

> a brief warm-up and 2-3 contract-relax sequences.

As a sideline issue. How? I have read all the books like Kurz and

Tsatsouline that claim that anyone can achieve side splits in 3 months with

their method of PNF stretching and two years later I am still 12 inches off

the floor.

> When cold, I can barely do a side-kick at waist-level, and when warmed up and

> supple...close to head-level... There's also a slight discomfort in my hip

> joints when kicking - is this a technique issue, a dysfunctional-joint issue,

> or do I simply need to emphasize dynamic flexibility in my workouts (de-

> emphasizing PNF-stretching accordingly)?

Stretching is pretty specific so, to improve kicking, one should aim to do

dynamic stretches.

Cheers

Hamish

[Guest guest]

B€  ørge (?) had mentioned in another post about trying to kick head high while

cold. Does anyone out there have a comment on this? Personally, I won't

ever try it again. I threw a wheel (spinning heel) kick while cold twenty

seven years ago. The chiropractor finally releived a lot of the pain but I

still feel the spot in my back all the time.

However...Have you seen Bill Wallace's book Dynamic Stretching and Kicking?

It is great. I've looked through it a few times and I will add it to my

library. In addition, if you haven't attended one of his seminars yet, do

so. He travels the world doing seminars. Last time I saw him here in North

Carolina, he had just flown in straight from Cyprus. You can also look him

up at www.superfoot.com

Jeff Gullett

From: " Hamish Ferguson " <bikecoach@...>

> From: " B€  ørge Fagerli " <bfagerli@...>

>

> > I can easily achieve the side splits (suspended on chairs, even...)

> after a brief warm-up and 2-3 contract-relax sequences.

> As a sideline issue. How? I have read all the books like Kurz and

> Tsatsouline that claim that anyone can achieve side splits in 3 months

> with their method of PNF stretching and two years later I am still 12 inches

> off the floor.

> > When cold, I can barely do a side-kick at waist-level, and when warmed

> >up and supple...close to head-level... There's also a slight discomfort in my

> >hip joints when kicking - is this a technique issue, a dysfunctional-joint

> >issue, or do I simply need to emphasize dynamic flexibility in my workouts

> >(de- emphasizing PNF-stretching accordingly)?

>

> Stretching is pretty specific so, to improve kicking, one should aim to do

> dynamic stretches.

>

> Hamish

[Guest guest]

Jeff Gullett <prostar@...> wrote:

> B€  ørge (?) had mentioned in another post about trying to kick

> head high while cold. Does anyone out there have a comment on

> this? Personally, I won't ever try it again.

ly, I used to do it all the time, fairly casually, if I was

bored. Not with any real force behind it, mind you, but still head

high. I've been away from my martial arts training for awhile

though.

> I threw a wheel (spinning heel) kick while cold twenty seven years

> ago. The chiropractor finally releived a lot of the pain but I

> still feel the spot in my back all the time.

That's a bit more than a simple side kick. I'm not sure I'd try that

warmed up...

Matt Madsen

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I used to be able to pop one head high just fooling around. After

reading your post I got up and tried it now. NOT! Chest high was the max.

I had decided to take the summer off to focus on scuba diving since I want

to get my Divemaster certification. The first thing to go was flexibility.

Now it must come back. There is a self defense class I want to teach soon

and I need to get my stuff back up and working. Granted, I won't teach any

kicks higher than the waist but I want that capacity for me.

Now the kick I just tried was a very casual one. I wouldn't hurt myself

doing it at all. I wonder if B? €  ørge is trying to just lay one up there or

going at it full tilt? A dynamic kick with full effort, speed and momentum

makes me cringe to think about it. There was a thread here on the list

regarding warmup vs stretching and I was following it until it went away. I

just wonder how all this kicking while cold squares with others out there?

There should be some good parallels to this type of movement.

Jeff Gullett

-----------------

Jeff Gullett <prostar@...> wrote:

> > B€  ørge (?) had mentioned in another post about trying to kick

> > head high while cold. Does anyone out there have a comment on

> > this? Personally, I won't ever try it again.

Matt Madsen<mmadsen@...> wrote:

> ly, I used to do it all the time, fairly casually, if I was

> bored. Not with any real force behind it, mind you, but still head

> high. I've been away from my martial arts training for awhile

> though.

> > I threw a wheel (spinning heel) kick while cold twenty seven years

> > ago. The chiropractor finally releived a lot of the pain but I

> > still feel the spot in my back all the time.

Matt Madsen:

> That's a bit more than a simple side kick. I'm not sure I'd try that

> warmed up...