Re: POWER CLEANS & OL

[Guest guest]

Riddick wrote...

<<PERHAPS, just maybe, someday powercleans would replace the bench press as

the number 1 weight training movement done in the USA.>>

,

I enjoyed your post. I thought you made many excellent points. Your last

sentence (above) may be a little too much " wishful thinking " though. I say

that because I'm afraid the number one reason why people lift weights in

this country is to improve their appearance. Especially upper body for

males. Hey, why work hard to actually *BE* strong when you can to the bare

minimum and *LOOK* strong? Besides, power cleans would lose their appeal

to most typical gym trainees once they found out how strenuous they are.

That is the same reason why you don't see too many people doing a REAL squat

workout in your typical fitness gym.

Burkhardt

Strength and Conditioning Coach

UC Irvine

[Guest guest]

Writes:

" Perhaps a better question to ask would be along the following

line: . Would it be a positive thing for the fitness industry to

encourage the USAW to more aggressively encourage the establishment

of grass roots Olympic Lifting clubs in communities across the USA?

This is what the USAW club coach manual was written for. Perhaps if

there were more OL clubs at the grass roots level,

toner/pumper/bodybuilder types might eventually get the message

that OL is superior to the HIT/superslow/bodybuilder ways of

training commonly used in the USA?

Good things usually don't happen by accident, you have to make them

happen by conscious effort most of the time. Perhaps the USAW needs

a better budget, more aggressive leadership, more media coverage

and MUCH better marketing? In order for the power clean to be

widely taught properly across the USA, a large pool of competent

OL instructors needs to be created.

Personally, I hate to say it, but I

do not think this pool of personnel qualified to teach OL movements

currently exists in the USA. That is my personal opinion, others

may disagree with me. This is half the battle I think. If the USAW

could develop more interest in OL and create a larger pool of

competent OL instructors, then PERHAPS, just maybe, someday

powercleans would replace the bench press as the number 1 weight

training movement done in the USA. "

(eli)The number of clubs in china is actually about 10% the number of

athletes in USAW and the number of coaches in China is basically the

number of senior athletes in USAW. I heard from someone in USAW that

another person in USAW once said that weightlifting is like fishing;

If you have a big enough net you are bound to catch a fish (a

champion).

On this note? How does one go about aquiring funding and support for

amateur sports (weightlifting) programs. Money is needed for

facilities, travel, and to pay the coaches. These could either be

school supported (high school/collegiate), recreation district

supported, or independently funded. Seriously, does anybody with

experience out there know how to get funding? What type of

organization and budget documentation is necessary? Who needs to be

approached (deans? city councils? corporate heads?)? lets brainstorm!

[Guest guest]

Riddick <SpeedStrength@...> wrote:

> However, I am against teaching the power clean to the general

> public, for a variety of reasons. I believe the power clean and

> related movements should be reserved for athletes and others who

> are very serious about lifting weights.

I think there's a common confusion that doing the various competitive

lifts (clean, deadlift, etc.) means doing them like a competitive

athlete, pushing the limits, going for a one-rep max, going through

the required range of motion, etc.

For most people, learning a hang (power) clean is new and different

-- they're just not used to lifting (in the gym) with any momentum --

but as long as they're not pushing their limits, it can be fine. Of

course, even an empty bar can be too much resistance for sedentary,

middle-aged housewives.

Further, learning a true power clean off the floor is probably too

much, not because the movement is simply too hardcore, but because

office workers don't have the strength and flexibility through that

range of motion yet. They need to stick to a range they can handle

with weights they can handle.

> For one, lets be brutally honest here. There are not too many who

> really, truly know how to do a power clean.

Well, right, but mainly because no one does them. A reasonably

athletic person can pick it up (you'll pardon the pun) in a matter of

minutes.

I think with just about any movement, some people immediately pick it

up, others don't but learn the form over time, and others just don't

care. I'm not going to condemn the stiff-legged deadlift, for

instance, even though almost no one does it " right " . (By the way,

have you ever seen the SLDL suggested and described without

mentioning how bad it is to round your back? And yet almost no one

seems to care.)

> Therefore, I simply do not think it is practical or realistic to

> expect the general public to learn and do the powerclean...its a

> matter of real world practicality.

I agree that we can't expect the world to start power cleaning. On

the other hand, if they see at least a few guys doing it at their

local fitness center, they might give it a try.

> If explosive OL type movements are to be taught and done regularly

> in the non athlete community, explosive high pulls are a MUCH

> better choice than full powercleans. Explosive high pulls provide

> much of the same benefits as powercleans, but with much less stress

> on the wrists and they are safer to do. High pulls are also much

> easier to teach.

Perhaps I'm just odd, but I've always found catching the weight much

more natural than letting it drop back down. It's also a notion most

people understand fairly well; if you want to pick something up, that

is how you do it.

> Furthermore, many of these average,typical trainees in the

> pumper/toner/bodybuilder type gyms need to learn other more basic,

> non explosive free weight movements like the barbell squat, the

> standing overhead press, etc.

True. The hang clean is easy to teach with the press though.

" Here's how you get the bar into position... "

> Would it be a positive thing for the fitness industry to encourage

> the USAW to more aggressively encourage the establishment of grass

> roots Olympic Lifting clubs in communities across the USA? This is

> what the USAW club coach manual was written for. Perhaps if there

> were more OL clubs at the grass roots level, toner/pumper/

> bodybuilder types might eventually get the message that OL is

> superior to the HIT/superslow/bodybuilder ways of training commonly

> used in the USA?

Most people obviously haven't even seen Olympic lifting in real life;

they see it for a few minutes every four years. I'm not even sure if

most of us on this list would know where to do to see real

weightlifting. That's sad.

Matt Madsen

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[Guest guest]

Burkhardt <emburkha@...> wrote:

> I say that because I'm afraid the number one reason why people lift

> weights in this country is to improve their appearance. Especially

> upper body for males. Hey, why work hard to actually *BE* strong

> when you can to the bare minimum and *LOOK* strong?

Interestingly, most guys do a terrible job of even doing that. Sure,

bench press is a decent enough exercise for the pecs, delts, and

triceps, but even if you want the " light bulb " look it's not enough.

Even a shallow and vain lifter should be doing plenty of chin-ups and

at least some cleans (or upright rows, or shrugs, or even lateral

raises). I don't know how you could want a manly " V " without

thinking to do some back work.

> Besides, power cleans would lose their appeal to most typical gym

> trainees once they found out how strenuous they are. That is the

> same reason why you don't see too many people doing a REAL squat

> workout in your typical fitness gym.

Yes, definitely. Heck, even short set of five power cleans (and push

presses) can leave you winded.

Matt Madsen

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