Re: Boxing Training & Bodyfat

[Guest guest]

Mel Siff wrote:

But let's return to that 15% bodyfat measurement - all too often I have seen

fitness instructors and physical educators use calipers or computerised body

impedance to estimate bodyfat and obtain readings that differ enormously

from those obtained by underwater weighing.

****I had an AT, PT, ortho, registered sports nutritionist, S/C College

coach, myself and three personal trainers (who claim to do this all the

time) take body fat measurements from the same region using three different

devices. Futurex, cheap, plastic calipers and an expensive set of metal

calipers. Bottom line: There was as much as a fifty percent variance on

the athlete who had just recorded his bfat at Georgia Tech's underwater at

12%. Most could not duplicate their OWN results twice. Goodbye bodyfat

measurements.

Mel Siff wrote:

Quite frankly, I feel that most bodyfat measurement is a waste of time in

prescribing exercise and prefer to judge by the athlete's performance.

****Gee, that's a novel idea. It seems many athletes are just fine with

" excess " bodyfat.

Joe Alden

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[Guest guest]

On that point I have to apologize. That may be inaccurate. I didn't

personally test his percentage. I asked him and he gave me a rough estimate.

I thought it was high myself. Anyway I am having him go to his gym and

request an accurate test. He is by no means fat. Again, I probably shouldn't

have even included that since I didn't have an accurate measurement.

I really appreciate all of these replies. They are excellent. For the most

part it sounds as though we are pretty much in line with our training.

My point about targeting specific parts was a question of efficiency. I

would certainly agree that a chain of movements starting at the feet and

moving all the way up the body share responsibility for the generation of a

punch. It was my thought that certain parts carry more of that

responsibility. Also that certain exercises such as a bench press simulate

most closely the execution of a punch. Particularly dumbbell presses. Other

abdominal work especially those emphasizing trunk twisting would also

greatly enhance punching power. Since we are working the legs a great deal

with sprints, ropes, plyos, I wasn't sure if doing squats, lunges etc. would

pay the dividends that it might in a sport such as football.

One other area is the neck. I am a firm believer that a strong neck can

greatly reduce the impact of a punch. Or in other words create a stronger

" chin " for a fighter. Currently we are doing shrugs and neck exercises

utilizing partner supplied resistance. We do these exercises at a slower

pace, with more emphasis placed on rom and eccentric. Much less explosive.

Can you guys give me your thoughts on neck work.

Boxing Training & Bodyfat

> Matt Madson wrote:

>

> <Your son is 19, an avid lifter, working a physical job, training as a

> boxer, and is still carrying 15% body-fat?

>

> Why are you surprised by that? Boxing, lifting and physical labour just

aren't very aerobic by their nature.

>

> Dejan

> ---------

>

> Brett Blaney <mpakt@...> wrote:

>

> <<He weighs around 195 lbs. at about 15% bodyfat.>>

>

> ---------

>

> Mel Siff:

>

> *** Your comment implies that it is only aerobic exercise which

significantly decreases excess bodyfat. This is a myth that has been

perpetuated for many years by cardiovascular evangelists. Research

involving tens of thousands of subjects by the prolific Dr Ralph

Paffenbarger showed that it is not simply the type of exercise, but the

number of calories expended which benefits cardiac health, obesity and so

forth. No work has ever shown that any form of anaerobic or aerobic

exercise is superior in reducing bodyfat, if the number of calories expended

reamins much the same.

>

> But let's return to that 15% bodyfat measurement - all too often I have

seen fitness instructors and physical educators use calipers or computerised

body impedance to estimate bodyfat and obtain readings that differ

enormously from those obtained by underwater weighing. Possibly this has

been the case here, so let's ask Brett how his son's bodyfat measurement was

calculated before we jump to conclusions.

>

> Quite frankly, I feel that most bodyfat measurement is a waste of time in

prescribing exercise and prefer to judge by the athlete's performance.

Anyway, most of us don't need calipers and other devices to tell us that we

are carrying too much subcutaneous fat - a mirror and 'pinch the flab' test

suffices most of the time, unless you actually wish to document all changes

scientifically. Do bodybuilding judges rely on bodyfat measurement when

they award points for " definition " ? Think about it!

>

> Dr Mel C Siff

> Denver, USA

> mcsiff@...

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Joe Alden <joealden@...> wrote:

> Mel Siff wrote:

> > Quite frankly, I feel that most bodyfat measurement is a waste of

> > time in prescribing exercise and prefer to judge by the athlete's

> > performance.

>

> ****Gee, that's a novel idea. It seems many athletes are just fine

> with " excess " bodyfat.

Not as many athletes perform well with excess body-fat though if we

measure performance using the most important metric: endorsement

dollars.

I suppose Foreman did OK...

Matt Madsen

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Excellent point! In his case visually you can see that he is carrying very

little bodyfat. He is not ripped, but then he's not a competitive

bodybuilder anyway. My original reason for even including a bodyfat

percentage had to do with his weight division. I wanted to illustrate where

he was as far as going up or down in weight. Point being he does not have

room to drop to the next weight class without depleting a tremendous amount

lean muscle mass.

Brett Blaney

Re: Boxing Training & Bodyfat

> Mel Siff wrote:

>

> But let's return to that 15% bodyfat measurement - all too often I have

seen

> fitness instructors and physical educators use calipers or computerised

body

> impedance to estimate bodyfat and obtain readings that differ enormously

> from those obtained by underwater weighing.

>

> ****I had an AT, PT, ortho, registered sports nutritionist, S/C College

> coach, myself and three personal trainers (who claim to do this all the

> time) take body fat measurements from the same region using three

different

> devices. Futurex, cheap, plastic calipers and an expensive set of metal

> calipers. Bottom line: There was as much as a fifty percent variance on

> the athlete who had just recorded his bfat at Georgia Tech's underwater at

> 12%. Most could not duplicate their OWN results twice. Goodbye bodyfat

> measurements.

>

> Mel Siff wrote:

>

> Quite frankly, I feel that most bodyfat measurement is a waste of time in

> prescribing exercise and prefer to judge by the athlete's performance.

>

> ****Gee, that's a novel idea. It seems many athletes are just fine with

> " excess " bodyfat.

>

> Joe Alden

> _________________________________________________________________________

> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

>

> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

> http://profiles.msn.com.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Brett Blaney <mpakt@...> wrote:

> My point about targeting specific parts was a question of

> efficiency. I would certainly agree that a chain of movements

> starting at the feet and moving all the way up the body share

> responsibility for the generation of a punch. It was my thought

> that certain parts carry more of that responsibility.

I agree, and I think that's a generally misunderstood point. Of

course most of the power in a punch comes from the hips, but that's

not because the hips are pound-for-pound more important for punching;

it's because you have a heckuva lot more leg/hip/oblique than

pec/delt/tri to put into a punch.

A weight-classed athlete is going to improve punching power more with

five pounds of upper-body mass than with five pounds of lower-body

mass, I'd expect.

Matt Madsen

__________________________________________________