Re: My Inspra experience - dose, time and blood pressure , DASH diet

[Guest guest]

I swear, I'm barely eating salt. Today, I had 1/2 C of Nature's Path

Pomegran Plus Granola, 35 mg Na., some dried fruit, 25 mg Na, a bit of milk,

a green veggie drink. The next step is to eat nothing.

Since December, I've been arguing with the State of Colorado about the finer

points of their law. They were trying to extract an additional $9,700 in

tax. Mind you, in my anxiety state, it was not easy to assemble the

argument and documentation. Today, I won. I got a letter that they are

closing the case. Still went into a sweat when the letter arrived, though.

Anxiety is down. Life is better.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

On Mar 20, 2008, at 10:23 AM, Valarie wrote:

A misconception is that you retain water after stopping HCTZ.

You retain sodium and the water is retained to keep the blood sodium in

range.

So if you stop HCTZ and do not eat excess salt you do not swell or

retain water or gain weight. Unless you are drinking heavy water I

suppose.

The reason you retain after HCTZ is that the sodium depletion that

occurs with a diuretic (if you are eating excess sodium) activates the

RAAS and increases aldo.

When you stop the RAAS needs to retain Na to come back into balance.

If you eat no sodium you can';t retain any.

[Guest guest]

Cow's Milk has 170 mg Na or so per cup which human milk has only 5-10.

Look at the Na content of your green veggie drink. Reg V8 for example

can have 700+ mg Na per cup. Mr and Mrs Ts Bloody mix (veggie)

2000 mg per serving.

Congrats on the tax win.

You also mentioned some herbal prep you were using. These can contain

licorice (tastes like it too) which will make you retain Na. Some may

contain a lot of salt as well. I never advise using traditional

Chinese meds as we don't know what is in them--recall Chinese

toothpaste containing anitfreeze as a sweetener.

On Mar 20, 2008, at 5:42 PM, Valarie wrote:

> I swear, I'm barely eating salt. Today, I had 1/2 C of Nature's Path

> Pomegran Plus Granola, 35 mg Na., some dried fruit, 25 mg Na, a bit

> of milk,

> a green veggie drink. The next step is to eat nothing.

>

> Since December, I've been arguing with the State of Colorado about

> the finer

> points of their law. They were trying to extract an additional $9,700

> in

> tax. Mind you, in my anxiety state, it was not easy to assemble the

> argument and documentation. Today, I won. I got a letter that they are

> closing the case. Still went into a sweat when the letter arrived,

> though.

>

> Anxiety is down. Life is better.

>

> Val

>

> From: hyperaldosteronism

> [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

>

> On Mar 20, 2008, at 10:23 AM, Valarie wrote:

>

> A misconception is that you retain water after stopping HCTZ.

>

> You retain sodium and the water is retained to keep the blood sodium

> in

> range.

>

> So if you stop HCTZ and do not eat excess salt you do not swell or

> retain water or gain weight. Unless you are drinking heavy water I

> suppose.

>

> The reason you retain after HCTZ is that the sodium depletion that

> occurs with a diuretic (if you are eating excess sodium) activates the

> RAAS and increases aldo.

>

> When you stop the RAAS needs to retain Na to come back into balance.

> If you eat no sodium you can';t retain any.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Does getting up at night to pee wake you up. Inspra should be slowing

this down.

On Mar 20, 2008, at 3:26 PM, Valarie wrote:

> Dave, you're a dear to continue to respond to my postings. I'm going

> through a transition and trying to understand and deal as much as I

> can. It

> helps to know that withdrawing a diuretic may only temporarily cause

> more

> water retention.

>

> I'm watching it all carefully and will go in if I get too scared. I

> did go

> to ER in December with terrible anxiety, sweats, very high BP and low

> K. I

> have high ded health ins and that little trip cost $2,300. ouchie

>

> I have done strenuous exercise while on the diuretic (since 2002),

> but I've

> gotten worse the last three years and especially, the last nine

> months. I

> welcome normal sweating; its these episodes of sweating and weakness

> that

> get to me. Interestingly, while I zombied out on Ativan, the sweats

> were

> considerably lessened. 'course, I was too zombied out to do anything.

>

> I took 25 mg Inspra last night after dinner w/o much nausea and

> another 25

> mg this morning w/ only a touch of nausea. Meanwhile, doc finally

> called

> spiro in. I'm just going to play this day by day. If I can continue

> the

> Inspra, I will. I'd like to see what its going to do.

>

> Yes, sleep is a very pleasant thing. I'm pretty convinced that my

> anxiety

> is directly related to BP level. I've had other times when it blips

> down

> and the anxiety lifts. I feel semi decent today.

>

> Val

>

> Look at this green drink:

> http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1

> <http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1 & pid=8230> & pid=8230 It

> is

> just freeze dried plants you could grow in your garden. No added

> stuff like

> iodine, salt, Echinacea, etc. Seems like a good way to get a hefty

> serving

> of K.

>

>

> From: hyperaldosteronism

> [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Dave

>

> I don't know enough to be a sole info source. You must seek a doctor.

> If the weakness is that bad I'd go to a clinic and let them check me

> over - look at K, maybe get some short-term K-dur if it's low. The

> diuretic takes it out by the mechanism Dr Grim described. You never

> know, something else may be going on.

>

> I would not shock myself too suddenly when dropping the drug. The body

> is used to certain levels and practices. Any shock can send it

> reeling. I'd drink low-sodium V8 and/or OJ and not go too low on

> sodium

> either. 1500mg/day or so. My case is one person with a different body

> and Hx. My retention went away after a few days, progressively. I was

> not counting total Na consumption then either. I just stopped HCTZ

> because it made me so ill, arrhythmia.

>

> Didn't change much else - a day of catching up on sleep. Yes, if I get

> sedentary things get worse too. Sweating is a normal thing w/moving. I

> want to sweat each day in exercise. At least 30 min walking. With the

> back surgery that is not w/o pain. Did you get weakness w/exercise

> before the diuretic? My diuretic drove my pressure up too. I let them

> talk me into trying it 3 times. I was as ignorant of PA as they.

>

> The sleep is a pleasant indicator, no?

>

>

[Guest guest]

I hadn't thought about that but I absolutely am getting up less! It used to

be that when the sweats started (sometimes as early as 2:30 a.m.), I got up

every 1/2 hour. Now, I am lasting until maybe 6 a.m. or so. I slept until

7 this morning and it felt like Heaven. I've noticed less frequency during

the day as well.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

Does getting up at night to pee wake you up. Inspra should be slowing

this down.

[Guest guest]

The green drink is only 25 mg Na The one I have right now has other stuff I

don't want like green tea, ginseng, etc. I ordered the one I posted earlier

today that has nothing but green veggies

http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1

<http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1 & pid=8230> & pid=8230 I am not

an eater and it so much easier for me to just mix up a drink and swig it

down. When I get my order, I will call the company and see how much

potassium it has. I can't tell from the website.

Your mention of reg V-8 reminded me of when I last had one. Felt horrible.

Over the last year, I have gotten more and more salt sensitive. I got a

hypertension booklet from my insurance company today. Two full pages

devoted to DASH! I am so well educated thanks to this list!

The info on cow's vs human milk is interesting. I wonder if formula-fed

babies have a higher propensity to become hypertensive later in life.

The herbal is called Mutka Vata. It is from India. The website is

http://herbscancure.com/muktavati.htm I have corresponded with the owner of

the company and he gave me a month's supply to try a year ago. It brought

my pressure from ~160 to ~140 but not lower. Mind you, I was driven to this

in my muddling after leaving CU Medical with BP = 165/?? three years ago.

I'm not going to take any more given my doc's news, below. I've only taken

it since Tuesday (in my panic) and it has brought my pressure down some -

145/92 tonight. I can feel it.

My doc just called again. She wants me to totally stop the Inspra for now

and go totally on spiro. She wants to be able to isolate the drug in case I

have side effects. I agree. I am tolerating 25 mg Inspra with not so much

nausea but no telling how long it will take to a high enough dose. I'm sure

she'll work with me later to taper up/down.

I just doctored my daughter's boyfriend: Take 2 Advil every four hours,

drink lots of water, go to ER if he gets worse in the night. If not better

in the morning, go to doc. He's running a 102 fever, with no pain anywhere

but head.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

Cow's Milk has 170 mg Na or so per cup which human milk has only 5-10.

Look at the Na content of your green veggie drink. Reg V8 for example

can have 700+ mg Na per cup. Mr and Mrs Ts Bloody mix (veggie)

2000 mg per serving.

Congrats on the tax win.

You also mentioned some herbal prep you were using. These can contain

licorice (tastes like it too) which will make you retain Na. Some may

contain a lot of salt as well. I never advise using traditional

Chinese meds as we don't know what is in them--recall Chinese

toothpaste containing anitfreeze as a sweetener.

On Mar 20, 2008, at 5:42 PM, Valarie wrote:

[Guest guest]

Sounds like the Inspra is working.

On Mar 20, 2008, at 9:44 PM, Valarie wrote:

> I hadn't thought about that but I absolutely am getting up less! It

> used to

> be that when the sweats started (sometimes as early as 2:30 a.m.), I

> got up

> every 1/2 hour. Now, I am lasting until maybe 6 a.m. or so. I slept

> until

> 7 this morning and it felt like Heaven. I've noticed less frequency

> during

> the day as well.

>

> Val

>

> From: hyperaldosteronism

> [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

>

> Does getting up at night to pee wake you up. Inspra should be slowing

> this down.

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Mar 20, 2008, at 9:44 PM, Valarie wrote:

> The green drink is only 25 mg Na The one I have right now has other

> stuff I

> don't want like green tea, ginseng, etc. I ordered the one I posted

> earlier

> today that has nothing but green veggies

> http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1

> <http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1 & pid=8230> & pid=8230 I

> am not

> an eater and it so much easier for me to just mix up a drink and swig

> it

> down. When I get my order, I will call the company and see how much

> potassium it has. I can't tell from the website.

>

> Your mention of reg V-8 reminded me of when I last had one. Felt

> horrible.

> Over the last year, I have gotten more and more salt sensitive. I got

> a

> hypertension booklet from my insurance company today. Two full pages

> devoted to DASH! I am so well educated thanks to this list!

>

> The info on cow's vs human milk is interesting. I wonder if

> formula-fed

> babies have a higher propensity to become hypertensive later in life.

>

Yes there is a nice study from Holland. Babies fed regular formula vs

formula like human milk had higher BPs at one year and then also 15

years later.

>

> The herbal is called Mutka Vata. It is from India. The website is

> http://herbscancure.com/muktavati.htm I have corresponded with the

> owner of

> the company and he gave me a month's supply to try a year ago. It

> brought

> my pressure from ~160 to ~140 but not lower. Mind you, I was driven

> to this

> in my muddling after leaving CU Medical with BP = 165/?? three years

> ago.

> I'm not going to take any more given my doc's news, below. I've only

> taken

> it since Tuesday (in my panic) and it has brought my pressure down

> some -

> 145/92 tonight. I can feel it.

>

> My doc just called again. She wants me to totally stop the Inspra for

> now

> and go totally on spiro. She wants to be able to isolate the drug in

> case I

> have side effects. I agree. I am tolerating 25 mg Inspra with not so

> much

> nausea but no telling how long it will take to a high enough dose.

> I'm sure

> she'll work with me later to taper up/down.

I would be happy to talk to her (the Dr). If nocturia is decreasing

you are getting an effect of the Inspra.

Keep us posted.

>

> I just doctored my daughter's boyfriend: Take 2 Advil every four

> hours,

> drink lots of water, go to ER if he gets worse in the night. If not

> better

> in the morning, go to doc. He's running a 102 fever, with no pain

> anywhere

> but head.

>

> Val

>

> From: hyperaldosteronism

> [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

>

> Cow's Milk has 170 mg Na or so per cup which human milk has only 5-10.

>

> Look at the Na content of your green veggie drink. Reg V8 for example

> can have 700+ mg Na per cup. Mr and Mrs Ts Bloody mix (veggie)

> 2000 mg per serving.

>

> Congrats on the tax win.

>

> You also mentioned some herbal prep you were using. These can contain

> licorice (tastes like it too) which will make you retain Na. Some may

> contain a lot of salt as well. I never advise using traditional

> Chinese meds as we don't know what is in them--recall Chinese

> toothpaste containing anitfreeze as a sweetener.

>

> On Mar 20, 2008, at 5:42 PM, Valarie wrote:

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you!!! for pointing that out. That is one small miracle to savor.

And, thank you, period!!!!

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

Sounds like the Inspra is working.

On Mar 20, 2008, at 9:44 PM, Valarie wrote:

> I hadn't thought about that but I absolutely am getting up less! It

> used to

> be that when the sweats started (sometimes as early as 2:30 a.m.), I

> got up

> every 1/2 hour. Now, I am lasting until maybe 6 a.m. or so. I slept

> until

> 7 this morning and it felt like Heaven. I've noticed less frequency

> during

> the day as well.