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Really Improved My Health/ ..... Deteriorating Kidney Function!

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Posted
Posted

Interesting article. I found I've gone all yesterday and today without

needing baking soda :) I went through about two of the regular (1 lb)

boxes before I got there (!) I would feel I needed more every time my

heart rate and breathing rate would go up and discomfort in the side

abdomin increase.

I kept the same diet I had described previously minus the baking soda

yesterday, keeping up apples and apple juice.

Today I also ate some more varied foods and did pretty well.

I also went to my dr. this morning who took a urine sample and gave me

scripts for blood work and a CT scan for kidney stones.

He didn't say a lot but the thing is I don't have any urine issues and

when I passed the cotton ball looking things it was through #2 so he

seemed to think it unusual for a kidney issue. But the RTA really

seemed like it fit to me and the apples and baking soda made things

happen for sure.

At least the dr. is willing to look closer, we will see what he says

next. If I get frustrated with him I am already tons better off right

now than I have been for years due to the baking soda and apples.

I feel a little discomfort in the flank right now but sense that keeping

up apples might stop that in time. Progress has been significant in the

breathing and heart rates normalizing, pain in the side abdomin lessened

(and it feels overall healthier inside there) and even concentration is

better.

>

> MOST HEART FAILURE PATIENTS HAVE DETERIORATING KIDNEY FUNCTION!

>

> We often hear sudden death of heart trouble, not kidney trouble. But

> you must realize that " there are huge numbers of heart failure caused

> by kidney troubles " . We have monitored quite a number of patients who

> were rushed to emergency hospital rooms due to heart failure.

> However, when doctors examined these patients, their problems were

> actually caused by kidney troubles.

>

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Posted
Posted

Looking forward to see how your blood work looks. It's fantastic that

you found a way to help yourself! Do you ever test pH of urine?

Doesn't matter - just curious. I would imagine that you are quite

alkaline at this point.

When my brother was dx'd with a kidney stone (some scan test), they told

him to take some baking soda tablets. I think he was only taking 3

tablets a day. I guess that trial didn't do the trick, so they put him

on some other medication.

wrote:

>

> Interesting article. I found I've gone all yesterday and today without

> needing baking soda :) I went through about two of the regular (1 lb)

> boxes before I got there (!) I would feel I needed more every time my

> heart rate and breathing rate would go up and discomfort in the side

> abdomin increase.

>

> I kept the same diet I had described previously minus the baking soda

> yesterday, keeping up apples and apple juice.

>

> Today I also ate some more varied foods and did pretty well.

>

> I also went to my dr. this morning who took a urine sample and gave me

> scripts for blood work and a CT scan for kidney stones.

>

> He didn't say a lot but the thing is I don't have any urine issues and

> when I passed the cotton ball looking things it was through #2 so he

> seemed to think it unusual for a kidney issue. But the RTA really

> seemed like it fit to me and the apples and baking soda made things

> happen for sure.

>

> At least the dr. is willing to look closer, we will see what he says

> next. If I get frustrated with him I am already tons better off right

> now than I have been for years due to the baking soda and apples.

>

> I feel a little discomfort in the flank right now but sense that keeping

> up apples might stop that in time. Progress has been significant in the

> breathing and heart rates normalizing, pain in the side abdomin lessened

> (and it feels overall healthier inside there) and even concentration is

> better.

>

>

>

>

> >

> > MOST HEART FAILURE PATIENTS HAVE DETERIORATING KIDNEY FUNCTION!

> >

> > We often hear sudden death of heart trouble, not kidney trouble. But

> > you must realize that " there are huge numbers of heart failure caused

> > by kidney troubles " . We have monitored quite a number of patients who

> > were rushed to emergency hospital rooms due to heart failure.

> > However, when doctors examined these patients, their problems were

> > actually caused by kidney troubles.

> >

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Yeah I am curious too, so far no word on the blood, urine or CT results.

Sorry I never paid attention to pH in my urine before, but will report

on whatever info the dr. gives me.

I think I should steer clear of calcium supplements for now, from what

I've read here. Before he stopped himself from saying too much without

results first, my dr. did seem to start to say that RTA would not

usually be a root cause.

Do you know if your brother still needs medication and/or if he still

has issues with this?

Regarding the Parkinsons post, there was a man, friends of the author,

at the lecture on cancer who had Parkinsons they said because of

pesticides. Worse, the farm he had was organic. The name of the

product was something like Rodon. I don't know if it is still

available.

(I know people now with outstanding success with an inexpensive plant

based pesticide, fungicide, that is 100% biodegradable and carcinogen

free. There are lots of thriving projects going on with it right now

and efforts to expand its use. It's nice to know there are solutions

out there.)

> > >

> > > MOST HEART FAILURE PATIENTS HAVE DETERIORATING KIDNEY FUNCTION!

> > >

> > > We often hear sudden death of heart trouble, not kidney trouble.

But

> > > you must realize that " there are huge numbers of heart failure

caused

> > > by kidney troubles " . We have monitored quite a number of patients

who

> > > were rushed to emergency hospital rooms due to heart failure.

> > > However, when doctors examined these patients, their problems were

> > > actually caused by kidney troubles.

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

I believe my brother is still on medication & that the will do another

scan to see if the medication has been effective.

The thing about my brother is that his diet was pretty horrible. He's

improved his diet since the stone situation. He is 60 YO & has had a

diet of fast food for 40 yrs. I am amazed that one who has lived

without veggies and no exercise could do as well as my brother seems to

be doing. His hair is full, barely gray, and he does not need vision

glasses. I don't know his other issues such as cholesterol because he

never goes to the doctor. The doctor he sees for stones & not doing

anything else for him except to give him stone drugs.

There are some people in the world who shudder & fear supplements, but

will not blink to eat an M & M, and take whatever medication the doctors

give. My brother like that. However, this stone thing has scared

him enough to try to get more vegetables in.

I get the feeling though, that when the body becomes prone to a given

condition, (e.g. making stones in this case), one must hope for a way to

offset it. Jess, your efforts are helping in a way that you can FEEL.

I think this counts a lot that you can FEEL some help.

The question about calcium is an interesting one. I know that some here

feel that calcium supplements are not needed. I respect that opinion &

believe those concerns have merit. Yet I am still unsure. For one

thing, I am osteopenic & worry about that. Also, I tried to cut back on

some calcium recently, & my sleep quality has gone down. So I'm putting

calcium back where it was to see if regular sleep returns. Maybe the

balance of minerals is an individual thing. I feel like I'm always

trying to find my own balance.

Well, I guess I've gone off on a tangent here. Take care,

Amy

wrote:

>

> Yeah I am curious too, so far no word on the blood, urine or CT results.

> Sorry I never paid attention to pH in my urine before, but will report

> on whatever info the dr. gives me.

>

> I think I should steer clear of calcium supplements for now, from what

> I've read here. Before he stopped himself from saying too much without

> results first, my dr. did seem to start to say that RTA would not

> usually be a root cause.

>

> Do you know if your brother still needs medication and/or if he still

> has issues with this?

>

> Regarding the Parkinsons post, there was a man, friends of the author,

> at the lecture on cancer who had Parkinsons they said because of

> pesticides. Worse, the farm he had was organic. The name of the

> product was something like Rodon. I don't know if it is still

> available.

>

> (I know people now with outstanding success with an inexpensive plant

> based pesticide, fungicide, that is 100% biodegradable and carcinogen

> free. There are lots of thriving projects going on with it right now

> and efforts to expand its use. It's nice to know there are solutions

> out there.)

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > MOST HEART FAILURE PATIENTS HAVE DETERIORATING KIDNEY FUNCTION!

> > > >

> > > > We often hear sudden death of heart trouble, not kidney trouble.

> But

> > > > you must realize that " there are huge numbers of heart failure

> caused

> > > > by kidney troubles " . We have monitored quite a number of patients

> who

> > > > were rushed to emergency hospital rooms due to heart failure.

> > > > However, when doctors examined these patients, their problems were

> > > > actually caused by kidney troubles.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

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Posted

The calcium thing comes from experience... bad ones. We all certainly

need calcium, but taking calcium supplements causes huge problems. The

problem is with the calcium/magnesium balance... which one supplement

manufacturer CalMag tries to address. Their idea is good, but the

problem is that you will easily absorb calcium, but magnesium is very

difficult to get. The result is that you get an overabundance of free

calcium which floats around in your body and lands in places that you do

not want such as in the kidneys as stones and the arteries and veins as

plaque. Additionally, calcium causes muscles to contract (as in a

heart attack), while magnesium allows them to relax. Too much calcium

will cause severe leg cramps and possibly much worse.

Anyone who has had kidney stones is dancing with the devil if they are

adding calcium supplementation. You already have plenty of evidence

that your free blood calcium level is excessive. What you need is

magnesium to balance it out. The only way to easily get that is

transdermally. There is an online book on transdermal magnesium...

read it. This system works very well and is self-balancing, since you

only absorb what you need.

For sleep adjustment try taking melatonin... it is very nice to you and

really helps.

Good Luck, Jim

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Posted
Posted

Ok Doc just called and says he found the results of everything normal.

Then I ask about the bad cholesterol compared to last time it was read,

and he says he thinks it is a lab anomaly as it dropped nearly 100

points from 217 to 134. LOL

I don't think it was a lab anomaly at all since my breathing rate and

heart rate are vastly improved now and things feel a lot better and I

surely passed something, whatever it was.

Doc wants me to give specimens again at my convenience and is mailing me

a script for that.

I had read the post about coronary calcification and was thinking how my

pain has always been on my left side and left side only, and asked him

if we can check out my heart. (He wants to call my pain fibromyalgia

but I don't really buy that as a diagnosis in general, and why would

this occur on only my left side.)

He said sure that an EKG could be done when I go for the lab work and he

will put that on the slip.

In the mean time (and after reading the post about the brother given

baking soda to take 3 times a day) I decided to do 1-2 teaspoons of

baking soda in a small glass of apple juice 3 times a day, and feel that

is better towards whatever remaining discomfort going on than no baking

soda.

I will most likely keep that up and still stop the calcium supplements

(thought I do get some dairy). Today is a bit overcast but I will keep

getting some sun on the fire escape weather permitting.

I will report on whatever else the dr. has to tell me. I'll probably

try to go in next week for the repeat lab work and EKG.

> > > > >

> > > > > MOST HEART FAILURE PATIENTS HAVE DETERIORATING KIDNEY

FUNCTION!

> > > > >

> > > > > We often hear sudden death of heart trouble, not kidney

trouble.

> > But

> > > > > you must realize that " there are huge numbers of heart failure

> > caused

> > > > > by kidney troubles " . We have monitored quite a number of

patients

> > who

> > > > > were rushed to emergency hospital rooms due to heart failure.

> > > > > However, when doctors examined these patients, their problems

were

> > > > > actually caused by kidney troubles.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Posted
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" What you need is magnesium to balance it out. The only way to easily get that

is transdermally. "

I agree that transdermal mag is the most efficient way to absorb it. But

chelated mag taken internally is also absorbed fairly well. But for emergency

cases, transdermal is the way to go.

Really Improved My Health/ ..... Deteriorating Kidney

Function!

The calcium thing comes from experience... bad ones. We all certainly

need calcium, but taking calcium supplements causes huge problems. The

problem is with the calcium/magnesium balance... which one supplement

manufacturer CalMag tries to address. Their idea is good, but the

problem is that you will easily absorb calcium, but magnesium is very

difficult to get. The result is that you get an overabundance of free

calcium which floats around in your body and lands in places that you do

not want such as in the kidneys as stones and the arteries and veins as

plaque. Additionally, calcium causes muscles to contract (as in a

heart attack), while magnesium allows them to relax. Too much calcium

will cause severe leg cramps and possibly much worse.

Anyone who has had kidney stones is dancing with the devil if they are

adding calcium supplementation. You already have plenty of evidence

that your free blood calcium level is excessive. What you need is

magnesium to balance it out. The only way to easily get that is

transdermally. There is an online book on transdermal magnesium...

read it. This system works very well and is self-balancing, since you

only absorb what you need.

For sleep adjustment try taking melatonin... it is very nice to you and

really helps.

Good Luck, Jim

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Posted
Posted

What you say about the cal-mag ratio is a legitimate concern - and I

certainly do not disagree. I've never had stones, - but even without

stones, there can be other, big problems from excessive or misused

calcium. It lodges in the brain, in the tissues, in the arteries.

If I understand you correctly, you feel that you get enough (approx

1,000 mg) from your diet without supplementation.

Here's a scary article ... they say it's too soon to be sure it's true,

but the hypothesis is:

Payne and her associates believe the link may lie in an excess

absorption of calcium by blood vessel walls. These could form bone-like

deposits that narrow blood vessels and restrict elasticity. Excess

vitamin D might exacerbate that process, they added.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

Here's another one:

Most older brains don't learn or remember as well as younger ones do.

One possible reason is that rising calcium concentrations within neurons

hamper memory and learning. Researchers have accumulated a small pile of

supporting evidence for the calcium hypothesis, but key questions remain

about calcium's interaction with other mechanisms of aging and its

effects on neuron activity.

http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

Amy

Jim wrote:

>

> The calcium thing comes from experience... bad ones. We all certainly

> need calcium, but taking calcium supplements causes huge problems. The

> problem is with the calcium/magnesium balance... which one supplement

> manufacturer CalMag tries to address. Their idea is good, but the

> problem is that you will easily absorb calcium, but magnesium is very

> difficult to get. The result is that you get an overabundance of free

> calcium which floats around in your body and lands in places that you do

> not want such as in the kidneys as stones and the arteries and veins as

> plaque. Additionally, calcium causes muscles to contract (as in a

> heart attack), while magnesium allows them to relax. Too much calcium

> will cause severe leg cramps and possibly much worse.

>

> Anyone who has had kidney stones is dancing with the devil if they are

> adding calcium supplementation. You already have plenty of evidence

> that your free blood calcium level is excessive. What you need is

> magnesium to balance it out. The only way to easily get that is

> transdermally. There is an online book on transdermal magnesium...

> read it. This system works very well and is self-balancing, since you

> only absorb what you need.

>

> For sleep adjustment try taking melatonin... it is very nice to you and

> really helps.

>

> Good Luck, Jim

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Btw the reason I was focused on asking the dr. about the cholesterol is

bc it one of 2 readings a dr. has ever given me where I had a result

that was concerning. My blood pressure has always been fine, but the

high bad cholesterol had come up in recent years.

Also my dad has it too and told me it can be genetic.

(The other concerning result was before I had foot surgery in 2002 when

they checked to make sure I was fine to go under the knife. I have a

very vivid memory of a woman telling me the results showed my left

kidney performing weakly but that the right was making up for things.

My dr. now seems skeptical when I tell him this, and although I talked

to him about getting those records and signed releases, when my dr.

called Monday and I asked him about those he said he did not have them

right in front of him. I will keep trying to get info on that.)

Anyway what's interesting is my dad and I both eat pretty well and

always have, and that my dad does not drink coffee (in all the time I've

known him). He is not big on alcohol either, there's nothing

particularly acidic about his diet.

This is why (or perhaps just an excuse, lol) I did not think about

dropping coffee and seeing if that and no baking soda would do it.

While I'm sure the coffee doesn't help the situation, I suspect I would

still need the baking soda even without it.

Man I am telling you this baking soda 3 times a day makes me feel

sooooooooooo much better. I think it is the cure for me :) When I

don't do it my left side feels pain, burning, imploded, weak. When I do

it, I feel strong like I did in my youth :)

XO

>

> Ok Doc just called and says he found the results of everything normal.

>

> Then I ask about the bad cholesterol compared to last time it was

read,

> and he says he thinks it is a lab anomaly as it dropped nearly 100

> points from 217 to 134. LOL

>

> I don't think it was a lab anomaly at all since my breathing rate and

> heart rate are vastly improved now and things feel a lot better and I

> surely passed something, whatever it was.

>

> Doc wants me to give specimens again at my convenience and is mailing

me

> a script for that.

>

> I had read the post about coronary calcification and was thinking how

my

> pain has always been on my left side and left side only, and asked him

> if we can check out my heart. (He wants to call my pain fibromyalgia

> but I don't really buy that as a diagnosis in general, and why would

> this occur on only my left side.)

>

> He said sure that an EKG could be done when I go for the lab work and

he

> will put that on the slip.

>

> In the mean time (and after reading the post about the brother given

> baking soda to take 3 times a day) I decided to do 1-2 teaspoons of

> baking soda in a small glass of apple juice 3 times a day, and feel

that

> is better towards whatever remaining discomfort going on than no

baking

> soda.

>

> I will most likely keep that up and still stop the calcium supplements

> (thought I do get some dairy). Today is a bit overcast but I will

keep

> getting some sun on the fire escape weather permitting.

>

> I will report on whatever else the dr. has to tell me. I'll probably

> try to go in next week for the repeat lab work and EKG.

>

>

>

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Posted
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Hi Amy:

My reading has led me to believe that we westerners actually do get too

much calcium. Forget the 1000mg/day. One article that I read compared

Eastern cultures to ours comparing heart/ vascular disease rates vs.

calcium intake and the results were clear. Prior to that I had taken

Ezorb, which is an expensive super calcium source. In that time I got

the worst leg cramp that I have ever endured... a wake-up call .

Putting one and one together, I threw out the remaining Ezorb (about

$35 worth and have never taken any calcium supplements since. Since

then, I have also read the book on transdermal magnesium among plenty

of other opinions and studies.

My opinion based on the above is this: Take no calcium

supplementation, period. If you want to control bone loss, rub in

magnesium oil or gel... it has several added benefits and feels great.

Kind Regards, Jim

Apricot85 wrote:

> What you say about the cal-mag ratio is a legitimate concern - and I

> certainly do not disagree. I've never had stones, - but even without

> stones, there can be other, big problems from excessive or misused

> calcium. It lodges in the brain, in the tissues, in the arteries.

>

> If I understand you correctly, you feel that you get enough (approx

> 1,000 mg) from your diet without supplementation.

>

> Here's a scary article ... they say it's too soon to be sure it's true,

> but the hypothesis is:

> Payne and her associates believe the link may lie in an excess

> absorption of calcium by blood vessel walls. These could form bone-like

> deposits that narrow blood vessels and restrict elasticity. Excess

> vitamin D might exacerbate that process, they added.

> http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

>

> Here's another one:

> Most older brains don't learn or remember as well as younger ones do.

> One possible reason is that rising calcium concentrations within neurons

> hamper memory and learning. Researchers have accumulated a small pile of

> supporting evidence for the calcium hypothesis, but key questions remain

> about calcium's interaction with other mechanisms of aging and its

> effects on neuron activity.

> http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

>

> Amy

>

> Jim wrote:

> >

> > The calcium thing comes from experience... bad ones. We all certainly

> > need calcium, but taking calcium supplements causes huge problems. The

> > problem is with the calcium/magnesium balance... which one supplement

> > manufacturer CalMag tries to address. Their idea is good, but the

> > problem is that you will easily absorb calcium, but magnesium is very

> > difficult to get. The result is that you get an overabundance of free

> > calcium which floats around in your body and lands in places that you do

> > not want such as in the kidneys as stones and the arteries and veins as

> > plaque. Additionally, calcium causes muscles to contract (as in a

> > heart attack), while magnesium allows them to relax. Too much calcium

> > will cause severe leg cramps and possibly much worse.

> >

> > Anyone who has had kidney stones is dancing with the devil if they are

> > adding calcium supplementation. You already have plenty of evidence

> > that your free blood calcium level is excessive. What you need is

> > magnesium to balance it out. The only way to easily get that is

> > transdermally. There is an online book on transdermal magnesium...

> > read it. This system works very well and is self-balancing, since you

> > only absorb what you need.

> >

> > For sleep adjustment try taking melatonin... it is very nice to you and

> > really helps.

> >

> > Good Luck, Jim

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

Well, it sure seems obvious to me that there are genetic factors

involved here. I googled a bit, & here are snippets from a page I

read... reference URL below:

Normally, urine contains chemicals that prevent or inhibit the crystals

from forming. These inhibitors do not seem to work for everyone,

however, so some people form stones.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~ snip ~*~*~*~*~

The most common type of stone contains calcium in combination with

either oxalate or phosphate. These chemicals are part of a person's

normal diet and make up important parts of the body, such as bones and

muscles.

~*~*~*~*~ snip ~*~*~*~*~*~*~

A less common type of stone is caused by infection in the urinary tract.

This type of stone is called a struvite or infection stone. Another type

of stone, uric acid stones, are a bit less common, and cystine stones

are rare.

~*~*~*~*~ SNIP ~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Hypercalciuria is inherited, and it may be the cause of stones in more

than half of patients. Calcium is absorbed from food in excess and is

lost into the urine. This high level of calcium in the urine causes

crystals of calcium oxalate or calcium phosphate to form in the kidneys

or elsewhere in the urinary tract.

~*~*~*~*~*~ snip ~*~*~*~*~*~

Typically, a person feels a sharp, cramping pain in the back and side in

the area of the kidney or in the lower abdomen. Sometimes nausea and

vomiting occur. Later, pain may spread to the groin.

~*~*~*~*~*~ snip ~*~*~*~*~

Doctors usually try to control hypercalciuria, and thus prevent calcium

stones, by prescribing certain diuretics, such as hydrochlorothiazide.

These medicines decrease the amount of calcium released by the kidneys

into the urine by favoring calcium retention in bone. They work best

when sodium intake is low.

http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/stonesadults/

There was a lot of info on this page that I didn't paste in this email.

I didn't find a reference about sodium bicarbonate... which I thought

odd, because my brother's doctor first tried small doses of SB with

him. I assume there is a protocol for using SB.

wrote:

>

> Btw the reason I was focused on asking the dr. about the cholesterol is

> bc it one of 2 readings a dr. has ever given me where I had a result

> that was concerning. My blood pressure has always been fine, but the

> high bad cholesterol had come up in recent years.

>

> Also my dad has it too and told me it can be genetic.

>

> (The other concerning result was before I had foot surgery in 2002 when

> they checked to make sure I was fine to go under the knife. I have a

> very vivid memory of a woman telling me the results showed my left

> kidney performing weakly but that the right was making up for things.

> My dr. now seems skeptical when I tell him this, and although I talked

> to him about getting those records and signed releases, when my dr.

> called Monday and I asked him about those he said he did not have them

> right in front of him. I will keep trying to get info on that.)

>

> Anyway what's interesting is my dad and I both eat pretty well and

> always have, and that my dad does not drink coffee (in all the time I've

> known him). He is not big on alcohol either, there's nothing

> particularly acidic about his diet.

>

> This is why (or perhaps just an excuse, lol) I did not think about

> dropping coffee and seeing if that and no baking soda would do it.

>

> While I'm sure the coffee doesn't help the situation, I suspect I would

> still need the baking soda even without it.

>

> Man I am telling you this baking soda 3 times a day makes me feel

> sooooooooooo much better. I think it is the cure for me :) When I

> don't do it my left side feels pain, burning, imploded, weak. When I do

> it, I feel strong like I did in my youth :)

>

> XO

>

>

> >

> > Ok Doc just called and says he found the results of everything normal.

> >

> > Then I ask about the bad cholesterol compared to last time it was

> read,

> > and he says he thinks it is a lab anomaly as it dropped nearly 100

> > points from 217 to 134. LOL

> >

> > I don't think it was a lab anomaly at all since my breathing rate and

> > heart rate are vastly improved now and things feel a lot better and I

> > surely passed something, whatever it was.

> >

> > Doc wants me to give specimens again at my convenience and is mailing

> me

> > a script for that.

> >

> > I had read the post about coronary calcification and was thinking how

> my

> > pain has always been on my left side and left side only, and asked him

> > if we can check out my heart. (He wants to call my pain fibromyalgia

> > but I don't really buy that as a diagnosis in general, and why would

> > this occur on only my left side.)

> >

> > He said sure that an EKG could be done when I go for the lab work and

> he

> > will put that on the slip.

> >

> > In the mean time (and after reading the post about the brother given

> > baking soda to take 3 times a day) I decided to do 1-2 teaspoons of

> > baking soda in a small glass of apple juice 3 times a day, and feel

> that

> > is better towards whatever remaining discomfort going on than no

> baking

> > soda.

> >

> > I will most likely keep that up and still stop the calcium supplements

> > (thought I do get some dairy). Today is a bit overcast but I will

> keep

> > getting some sun on the fire escape weather permitting.

> >

> > I will report on whatever else the dr. has to tell me. I'll probably

> > try to go in next week for the repeat lab work and EKG.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

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Posted
Posted

I'm in agreement. As studies hit the news and get discussed on

sci.life-extension and other old-style internet groups, I keep a running

mental count (subconscious) on should I or should I not be taking

something and how much (for general health and life extension). While I

took calcium citrate for a long time, in the last month I flipped toward

not taking it and stopped. The bit you mentioned about calcium

consumption depending on national eating styles was important and

another article that seemed to indicate that long term calcium

supplementation in women was not a positive thing cancer wise - an

article that didn't seem to be a trumped up news story.

Steve

Jim wrote:

>

>

> Hi Amy:

>

> My reading has led me to believe that we westerners actually do get too

> much calcium. Forget the 1000mg/day. One article that I read compared

> Eastern cultures to ours comparing heart/ vascular disease rates vs.

> calcium intake and the results were clear. Prior to that I had taken

> Ezorb, which is an expensive super calcium source. In that time I got

> the worst leg cramp that I have ever endured... a wake-up call .

> Putting one and one together, I threw out the remaining Ezorb (about

> $35 worth and have never taken any calcium supplements since. Since

> then, I have also read the book on transdermal magnesium among plenty

> of other opinions and studies.

>

> My opinion based on the above is this: Take no calcium

> supplementation, period. If you want to control bone loss, rub in

> magnesium oil or gel... it has several added benefits and feels great.

>

> Kind Regards, Jim

>

> Apricot85 wrote:

>

> > What you say about the cal-mag ratio is a legitimate concern - and I

> > certainly do not disagree. I've never had stones, - but even without

> > stones, there can be other, big problems from excessive or misused

> > calcium. It lodges in the brain, in the tissues, in the arteries.

> >

> > If I understand you correctly, you feel that you get enough (approx

> > 1,000 mg) from your diet without supplementation.

> >

> > Here's a scary article ... they say it's too soon to be sure it's true,

> > but the hypothesis is:

> > Payne and her associates believe the link may lie in an excess

> > absorption of calcium by blood vessel walls. These could form bone-like

> > deposits that narrow blood vessels and restrict elasticity. Excess

> > vitamin D might exacerbate that process, they added.

> > http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>

> >

> > Here's another one:

> > Most older brains don't learn or remember as well as younger ones do.

> > One possible reason is that rising calcium concentrations within neurons

> > hamper memory and learning. Researchers have accumulated a small pile of

> > supporting evidence for the calcium hypothesis, but key questions remain

> > about calcium's interaction with other mechanisms of aging and its

> > effects on neuron activity.

> > http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>

> >

> > Amy

> >

> > Jim wrote:

> > >

> > > The calcium thing comes from experience... bad ones. We all certainly

> > > need calcium, but taking calcium supplements causes huge problems. The

> > > problem is with the calcium/magnesium balance... which one supplement

> > > manufacturer CalMag tries to address. Their idea is good, but the

> > > problem is that you will easily absorb calcium, but magnesium is very

> > > difficult to get. The result is that you get an overabundance of free

> > > calcium which floats around in your body and lands in places that

> you do

> > > not want such as in the kidneys as stones and the arteries and veins as

> > > plaque. Additionally, calcium causes muscles to contract (as in a

> > > heart attack), while magnesium allows them to relax. Too much calcium

> > > will cause severe leg cramps and possibly much worse.

> > >

> > > Anyone who has had kidney stones is dancing with the devil if they are

> > > adding calcium supplementation. You already have plenty of evidence

> > > that your free blood calcium level is excessive. What you need is

> > > magnesium to balance it out. The only way to easily get that is

> > > transdermally. There is an online book on transdermal magnesium...

> > > read it. This system works very well and is self-balancing, since you

> > > only absorb what you need.

> > >

> > > For sleep adjustment try taking melatonin... it is very nice to you and

> > > really helps.

> > >

> > > Good Luck, Jim

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

Calcium does seem to be a legitimate concern. Some reasons that go

through my mind are

1) dysregulation of calcium in the body... maybe from other deficiencies

that we know will dysregulate calcium (e.g. vit K, or vit D), or

something else & things we don't know... there's plenty that we don't

know (ie. hormones).

2) excess calcium (either diet or supplementation) & the body doesn't

manage excess well. Perhaps similar to excess calories.

3) not taking any calcium may not totally solve the problem - because if

there isn't enough calcium that the organs use, then it pulls it out of

the bones. The test that can show this is the PTH test, but this test

isn't always reliable. We can't rely on calcium test, because the body

will always take calcium from the bones - to keep calcium in the blood &

available for essential functions.

Jess felt that acidity was linked to her stones issues. Jess, do you

feel that calcium has played a role for you.

I have a lot of thoughts about all this, but running short on time.

Some things that I've noted is that Wafker (sp) includes calcium

bi-glicinate in his supplement regimen. I think he also includes some

yogurt, kefir and milk - but I'm not sure how much. The heart does rely

on some calcium to beat - right? I would have to look this up, but let

me know if you think otherwise. I had understood that the organs

needed some calcium for proper function, but perhaps this is outdated

and wrong.

I would like to know if those who avoid calcium from all sources have

DEXA scans. I would like to know how those go. This really is my

biggest question.

Also, I am a weird one... in that I get reactions if I take magnesium

without calcium, and also when I take calcium without magnesium. Whats

up with that. I do not know any one who has a reaction like me.

There's always an oddball & I guess I'm at the plate for that. If I

take nothing, I don't get a reaction at all. It's very weird. The

reaction is in my lip. I don't see a reaction anywhere else, only my

lip. I can bring on this lip reaction on purpose - by just taking

calcium or magnesium supplement.

My biggest question how DEXA scans look for those who avoid calcium.

Because if the bones are OK, that gives some clue about the rest of the

body.

Amy

Steve wrote:

>

> I'm in agreement. As studies hit the news and get discussed on

> sci.life-extension and other old-style internet groups, I keep a running

> mental count (subconscious) on should I or should I not be taking

> something and how much (for general health and life extension). While I

> took calcium citrate for a long time, in the last month I flipped toward

> not taking it and stopped. The bit you mentioned about calcium

> consumption depending on national eating styles was important and

> another article that seemed to indicate that long term calcium

> supplementation in women was not a positive thing cancer wise - an

> article that didn't seem to be a trumped up news story.

>

> Steve

>

> Jim wrote:

> >

> >

> > Hi Amy:

> >

> > My reading has led me to believe that we westerners actually do get too

> > much calcium. Forget the 1000mg/day. One article that I read compared

> > Eastern cultures to ours comparing heart/ vascular disease rates vs.

> > calcium intake and the results were clear. Prior to that I had taken

> > Ezorb, which is an expensive super calcium source. In that time I got

> > the worst leg cramp that I have ever endured... a wake-up call .

> > Putting one and one together, I threw out the remaining Ezorb (about

> > $35 worth and have never taken any calcium supplements since. Since

> > then, I have also read the book on transdermal magnesium among plenty

> > of other opinions and studies.

> >

> > My opinion based on the above is this: Take no calcium

> > supplementation, period. If you want to control bone loss, rub in

> > magnesium oil or gel... it has several added benefits and feels great.

> >

> > Kind Regards, Jim

> >

> > Apricot85 wrote:

> >

> > > What you say about the cal-mag ratio is a legitimate concern - and I

> > > certainly do not disagree. I've never had stones, - but even without

> > > stones, there can be other, big problems from excessive or misused

> > > calcium. It lodges in the brain, in the tissues, in the arteries.

> > >

> > > If I understand you correctly, you feel that you get enough (approx

> > > 1,000 mg) from your diet without supplementation.

> > >

> > > Here's a scary article ... they say it's too soon to be sure it's

> true,

> > > but the hypothesis is:

> > > Payne and her associates believe the link may lie in an excess

> > > absorption of calcium by blood vessel walls. These could form

> bone-like

> > > deposits that narrow blood vessels and restrict elasticity. Excess

> > > vitamin D might exacerbate that process, they added.

> > > http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>

> > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>>

> > >

> > > Here's another one:

> > > Most older brains don't learn or remember as well as younger ones do.

> > > One possible reason is that rising calcium concentrations within

> neurons

> > > hamper memory and learning. Researchers have accumulated a small

> pile of

> > > supporting evidence for the calcium hypothesis, but key questions

> remain

> > > about calcium's interaction with other mechanisms of aging and its

> > > effects on neuron activity.

> > > http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>

> > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>>

> > >

> > > Amy

> > >

> > > Jim wrote:

> > > >

> > > > The calcium thing comes from experience... bad ones. We all

> certainly

> > > > need calcium, but taking calcium supplements causes huge

> problems. The

> > > > problem is with the calcium/magnesium balance... which one

> supplement

> > > > manufacturer CalMag tries to address. Their idea is good, but the

> > > > problem is that you will easily absorb calcium, but magnesium is

> very

> > > > difficult to get. The result is that you get an overabundance of

> free

> > > > calcium which floats around in your body and lands in places that

> > you do

> > > > not want such as in the kidneys as stones and the arteries and

> veins as

> > > > plaque. Additionally, calcium causes muscles to contract (as in a

> > > > heart attack), while magnesium allows them to relax. Too much

> calcium

> > > > will cause severe leg cramps and possibly much worse.

> > > >

> > > > Anyone who has had kidney stones is dancing with the devil if

> they are

> > > > adding calcium supplementation. You already have plenty of evidence

> > > > that your free blood calcium level is excessive. What you need is

> > > > magnesium to balance it out. The only way to easily get that is

> > > > transdermally. There is an online book on transdermal magnesium...

> > > > read it. This system works very well and is self-balancing,

> since you

> > > > only absorb what you need.

> > > >

> > > > For sleep adjustment try taking melatonin... it is very nice to

> you and

> > > > really helps.

> > > >

> > > > Good Luck, Jim

> > > >

> > > >

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Posted
Posted

Hi Amy:

You say that you get bad reactions from taking magnesium... don't we

all? I assume that you mean orally?

My opinion is that you should be eating plenty of green foods like

spinach which supply a balanced intake of minerals that the body

understands. Magnesium supplementation transdermally also allows for

natural adjustments where the metallic compounds do not.

Regards, Jim

Apricot85 wrote:

> Calcium does seem to be a legitimate concern. Some reasons that go

> through my mind are

> 1) dysregulation of calcium in the body... maybe from other deficiencies

> that we know will dysregulate calcium (e.g. vit K, or vit D), or

> something else & things we don't know... there's plenty that we don't

> know (ie. hormones).

> 2) excess calcium (either diet or supplementation) & the body doesn't

> manage excess well. Perhaps similar to excess calories.

> 3) not taking any calcium may not totally solve the problem - because if

> there isn't enough calcium that the organs use, then it pulls it out of

> the bones. The test that can show this is the PTH test, but this test

> isn't always reliable. We can't rely on calcium test, because the body

> will always take calcium from the bones - to keep calcium in the blood &

> available for essential functions.

>

> Jess felt that acidity was linked to her stones issues. Jess, do you

> feel that calcium has played a role for you.

>

> I have a lot of thoughts about all this, but running short on time.

> Some things that I've noted is that Wafker (sp) includes calcium

> bi-glicinate in his supplement regimen. I think he also includes some

> yogurt, kefir and milk - but I'm not sure how much. The heart does rely

> on some calcium to beat - right? I would have to look this up, but let

> me know if you think otherwise. I had understood that the organs

> needed some calcium for proper function, but perhaps this is outdated

> and wrong.

>

> I would like to know if those who avoid calcium from all sources have

> DEXA scans. I would like to know how those go. This really is my

> biggest question.

>

> Also, I am a weird one... in that I get reactions if I take magnesium

> without calcium, and also when I take calcium without magnesium. Whats

> up with that. I do not know any one who has a reaction like me.

> There's always an oddball & I guess I'm at the plate for that. If I

> take nothing, I don't get a reaction at all. It's very weird. The

> reaction is in my lip. I don't see a reaction anywhere else, only my

> lip. I can bring on this lip reaction on purpose - by just taking

> calcium or magnesium supplement.

>

> My biggest question how DEXA scans look for those who avoid calcium.

> Because if the bones are OK, that gives some clue about the rest of the

> body.

>

> Amy

>

> Steve wrote:

> >

> > I'm in agreement. As studies hit the news and get discussed on

> > sci.life-extension and other old-style internet groups, I keep a running

> > mental count (subconscious) on should I or should I not be taking

> > something and how much (for general health and life extension). While I

> > took calcium citrate for a long time, in the last month I flipped toward

> > not taking it and stopped. The bit you mentioned about calcium

> > consumption depending on national eating styles was important and

> > another article that seemed to indicate that long term calcium

> > supplementation in women was not a positive thing cancer wise - an

> > article that didn't seem to be a trumped up news story.

> >

> > Steve

> >

> > Jim wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi Amy:

> > >

> > > My reading has led me to believe that we westerners actually do

> get too

> > > much calcium. Forget the 1000mg/day. One article that I read compared

> > > Eastern cultures to ours comparing heart/ vascular disease rates vs.

> > > calcium intake and the results were clear. Prior to that I had taken

> > > Ezorb, which is an expensive super calcium source. In that time I got

> > > the worst leg cramp that I have ever endured... a wake-up call .

> > > Putting one and one together, I threw out the remaining Ezorb (about

> > > $35 worth and have never taken any calcium supplements since. Since

> > > then, I have also read the book on transdermal magnesium among plenty

> > > of other opinions and studies.

> > >

> > > My opinion based on the above is this: Take no calcium

> > > supplementation, period. If you want to control bone loss, rub in

> > > magnesium oil or gel... it has several added benefits and feels great.

> > >

> > > Kind Regards, Jim

> > >

> > > Apricot85 wrote:

> > >

> > > > What you say about the cal-mag ratio is a legitimate concern - and I

> > > > certainly do not disagree. I've never had stones, - but even without

> > > > stones, there can be other, big problems from excessive or misused

> > > > calcium. It lodges in the brain, in the tissues, in the arteries.

> > > >

> > > > If I understand you correctly, you feel that you get enough (approx

> > > > 1,000 mg) from your diet without supplementation.

> > > >

> > > > Here's a scary article ... they say it's too soon to be sure it's

> > true,

> > > > but the hypothesis is:

> > > > Payne and her associates believe the link may lie in an excess

> > > > absorption of calcium by blood vessel walls. These could form

> > bone-like

> > > > deposits that narrow blood vessels and restrict elasticity. Excess

> > > > vitamin D might exacerbate that process, they added.

> > > > http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>

> > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>>

> > > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>

> > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>>>

> > > >

> > > > Here's another one:

> > > > Most older brains don't learn or remember as well as younger

> ones do.

> > > > One possible reason is that rising calcium concentrations within

> > neurons

> > > > hamper memory and learning. Researchers have accumulated a small

> > pile of

> > > > supporting evidence for the calcium hypothesis, but key questions

> > remain

> > > > about calcium's interaction with other mechanisms of aging and its

> > > > effects on neuron activity.

> > > > http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>

> > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>>

> > > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>

> > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>>>

> > > >

> > > > Amy

> > > >

> > > > Jim wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > The calcium thing comes from experience... bad ones. We all

> > certainly

> > > > > need calcium, but taking calcium supplements causes huge

> > problems. The

> > > > > problem is with the calcium/magnesium balance... which one

> > supplement

> > > > > manufacturer CalMag tries to address. Their idea is good, but the

> > > > > problem is that you will easily absorb calcium, but magnesium is

> > very

> > > > > difficult to get. The result is that you get an overabundance of

> > free

> > > > > calcium which floats around in your body and lands in places that

> > > you do

> > > > > not want such as in the kidneys as stones and the arteries and

> > veins as

> > > > > plaque. Additionally, calcium causes muscles to contract (as in a

> > > > > heart attack), while magnesium allows them to relax. Too much

> > calcium

> > > > > will cause severe leg cramps and possibly much worse.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyone who has had kidney stones is dancing with the devil if

> > they are

> > > > > adding calcium supplementation. You already have plenty of

> evidence

> > > > > that your free blood calcium level is excessive. What you need is

> > > > > magnesium to balance it out. The only way to easily get that is

> > > > > transdermally. There is an online book on transdermal magnesium...

> > > > > read it. This system works very well and is self-balancing,

> > since you

> > > > > only absorb what you need.

> > > > >

> > > > > For sleep adjustment try taking melatonin... it is very nice to

> > you and

> > > > > really helps.

> > > > >

> > > > > Good Luck, Jim

> > > > >

> > > > >

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Posted
Posted

Apricot85 wrote:

>

>

> Calcium does seem to be a legitimate concern. Some reasons that go

> through my mind are

> 1) dysregulation of calcium in the body... maybe from other deficiencies

> that we know will dysregulate calcium (e.g. vit K, or vit D), or

> something else & things we don't know... there's plenty that we don't

> know (ie. hormones).

> 2) excess calcium (either diet or supplementation) & the body doesn't

> manage excess well. Perhaps similar to excess calories.

> 3) not taking any calcium may not totally solve the problem - because if

> there isn't enough calcium that the organs use, then it pulls it out of

> the bones. The test that can show this is the PTH test, but this test

> isn't always reliable. We can't rely on calcium test, because the body

> will always take calcium from the bones - to keep calcium in the blood &

> available for essential functions.

I think that most uses for calcium are to neutralize an acidic diet and

other minerals also come into play if available. Nevertheless, calcium

will be lost from bone if no calcium is consumed and bone is lost due to

bone cell turnover if there is not enough vitamin D and vitamin K; in

that case the body ends up collecting excess calcium from bone brakedown

in other places, arteries, kidneys, brain, etc.

> Jess felt that acidity was linked to her stones issues. Jess, do you

> feel that calcium has played a role for you.

>

> I have a lot of thoughts about all this, but running short on time.

> Some things that I've noted is that Wafker (sp) includes calcium

> bi-glicinate in his supplement regimen. I think he also includes some

> yogurt, kefir and milk - but I'm not sure how much. The heart does rely

> on some calcium to beat - right?

Cells have calcium channels that are part of communication. I'm going

to have to check out 's regiment again.

> I would have to look this up, but let

> me know if you think otherwise. I had understood that the organs

> needed some calcium for proper function, but perhaps this is outdated

> and wrong.

>

> I would like to know if those who avoid calcium from all sources have

> DEXA scans. I would like to know how those go. This really is my

> biggest question.

I just had a DEXA scan for the first time. I haven't gotten the results

back yet. One side effect of low testosterone is bone loss and I had

low testosterone for many years. I signed up for some tests a while

back from on of thse fly-by-night mobile testing shops that target adds

at the elderly. I had some stuff done because the price was right and

their pixe scan test on my heal (one one foot) showed some bone loss so

I'm having that followed up with a much better test.

Steve

> Also, I am a weird one... in that I get reactions if I take magnesium

> without calcium, and also when I take calcium without magnesium. Whats

> up with that. I do not know any one who has a reaction like me.

> There's always an oddball & I guess I'm at the plate for that. If I

> take nothing, I don't get a reaction at all. It's very weird. The

> reaction is in my lip. I don't see a reaction anywhere else, only my

> lip. I can bring on this lip reaction on purpose - by just taking

> calcium or magnesium supplement.

>

> My biggest question how DEXA scans look for those who avoid calcium.

> Because if the bones are OK, that gives some clue about the rest of the

> body.

>

> Amy

> Steve wrote:

> >

> > I'm in agreement. As studies hit the news and get discussed on

> > sci.life-extension and other old-style internet groups, I keep a running

> > mental count (subconscious) on should I or should I not be taking

> > something and how much (for general health and life extension). While I

> > took calcium citrate for a long time, in the last month I flipped toward

> > not taking it and stopped. The bit you mentioned about calcium

> > consumption depending on national eating styles was important and

> > another article that seemed to indicate that long term calcium

> > supplementation in women was not a positive thing cancer wise - an

> > article that didn't seem to be a trumped up news story.

> >

> > Steve

> >

> > Jim wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi Amy:

> > >

> > > My reading has led me to believe that we westerners actually do get too

> > > much calcium. Forget the 1000mg/day. One article that I read compared

> > > Eastern cultures to ours comparing heart/ vascular disease rates vs.

> > > calcium intake and the results were clear. Prior to that I had taken

> > > Ezorb, which is an expensive super calcium source. In that time I got

> > > the worst leg cramp that I have ever endured... a wake-up call .

> > > Putting one and one together, I threw out the remaining Ezorb (about

> > > $35 worth and have never taken any calcium supplements since. Since

> > > then, I have also read the book on transdermal magnesium among plenty

> > > of other opinions and studies.

> > >

> > > My opinion based on the above is this: Take no calcium

> > > supplementation, period. If you want to control bone loss, rub in

> > > magnesium oil or gel... it has several added benefits and feels great.

> > >

> > > Kind Regards, Jim

> > >

> > > Apricot85 wrote:

> > >

> > > > What you say about the cal-mag ratio is a legitimate concern - and I

> > > > certainly do not disagree. I've never had stones, - but even without

> > > > stones, there can be other, big problems from excessive or misused

> > > > calcium. It lodges in the brain, in the tissues, in the arteries.

> > > >

> > > > If I understand you correctly, you feel that you get enough (approx

> > > > 1,000 mg) from your diet without supplementation.

> > > >

> > > > Here's a scary article ... they say it's too soon to be sure it's

> > true,

> > > > but the hypothesis is:

> > > > Payne and her associates believe the link may lie in an excess

> > > > absorption of calcium by blood vessel walls. These could form

> > bone-like

> > > > deposits that narrow blood vessels and restrict elasticity. Excess

> > > > vitamin D might exacerbate that process, they added.

> > > > http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>

> > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>>

> > > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>

> > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>>>

> > > >

> > > > Here's another one:

> > > > Most older brains don't learn or remember as well as younger ones do.

> > > > One possible reason is that rising calcium concentrations within

> > neurons

> > > > hamper memory and learning. Researchers have accumulated a small

> > pile of

> > > > supporting evidence for the calcium hypothesis, but key questions

> > remain

> > > > about calcium's interaction with other mechanisms of aging and its

> > > > effects on neuron activity.

> > > > http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>

> > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>>

> > > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>

> > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>>>

> > > >

> > > > Amy

> > > >

> > > > Jim wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > The calcium thing comes from experience... bad ones. We all

> > certainly

> > > > > need calcium, but taking calcium supplements causes huge

> > problems. The

> > > > > problem is with the calcium/magnesium balance... which one

> > supplement

> > > > > manufacturer CalMag tries to address. Their idea is good, but the

> > > > > problem is that you will easily absorb calcium, but magnesium is

> > very

> > > > > difficult to get. The result is that you get an overabundance of

> > free

> > > > > calcium which floats around in your body and lands in places that

> > > you do

> > > > > not want such as in the kidneys as stones and the arteries and

> > veins as

> > > > > plaque. Additionally, calcium causes muscles to contract (as in a

> > > > > heart attack), while magnesium allows them to relax. Too much

> > calcium

> > > > > will cause severe leg cramps and possibly much worse.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyone who has had kidney stones is dancing with the devil if

> > they are

> > > > > adding calcium supplementation. You already have plenty of evidence

> > > > > that your free blood calcium level is excessive. What you need is

> > > > > magnesium to balance it out. The only way to easily get that is

> > > > > transdermally. There is an online book on transdermal magnesium...

> > > > > read it. This system works very well and is self-balancing,

> > since you

> > > > > only absorb what you need.

> > > > >

> > > > > For sleep adjustment try taking melatonin... it is very nice to

> > you and

> > > > > really helps.

> > > > >

> > > > > Good Luck, Jim

> > > > >

> > > > >

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Posted
Posted

Jim do you mean cooked or raw spinach? Jess

Re: Really Improved My Health/ ..... Deteriorating

Kidney Function!

Hi Amy:

You say that you get bad reactions from taking magnesium... don't we

all? I assume that you mean orally?

My opinion is that you should be eating plenty of green foods like

spinach which supply a balanced intake of minerals that the body

understands. Magnesium supplementation transdermally also allows for

natural adjustments where the metallic compounds do not.

Regards, Jim

Apricot85 wrote:

> Calcium does seem to be a legitimate concern. Some reasons that go

> through my mind are

> 1) dysregulation of calcium in the body... maybe from other deficiencies

> that we know will dysregulate calcium (e.g. vit K, or vit D), or

> something else & things we don't know... there's plenty that we don't

> know (ie. hormones).

> 2) excess calcium (either diet or supplementation) & the body doesn't

> manage excess well. Perhaps similar to excess calories.

> 3) not taking any calcium may not totally solve the problem - because if

> there isn't enough calcium that the organs use, then it pulls it out of

> the bones. The test that can show this is the PTH test, but this test

> isn't always reliable. We can't rely on calcium test, because the body

> will always take calcium from the bones - to keep calcium in the blood &

> available for essential functions.

>

> Jess felt that acidity was linked to her stones issues. Jess, do you

> feel that calcium has played a role for you.

>

> I have a lot of thoughts about all this, but running short on time.

> Some things that I've noted is that Wafker (sp) includes calcium

> bi-glicinate in his supplement regimen. I think he also includes some

> yogurt, kefir and milk - but I'm not sure how much. The heart does rely

> on some calcium to beat - right? I would have to look this up, but let

> me know if you think otherwise. I had understood that the organs

> needed some calcium for proper function, but perhaps this is outdated

> and wrong.

>

> I would like to know if those who avoid calcium from all sources have

> DEXA scans. I would like to know how those go. This really is my

> biggest question.

>

> Also, I am a weird one... in that I get reactions if I take magnesium

> without calcium, and also when I take calcium without magnesium. Whats

> up with that. I do not know any one who has a reaction like me.

> There's always an oddball & I guess I'm at the plate for that. If I

> take nothing, I don't get a reaction at all. It's very weird. The

> reaction is in my lip. I don't see a reaction anywhere else, only my

> lip. I can bring on this lip reaction on purpose - by just taking

> calcium or magnesium supplement.

>

> My biggest question how DEXA scans look for those who avoid calcium.

> Because if the bones are OK, that gives some clue about the rest of the

> body.

>

> Amy

>

> Steve wrote:

> >

> > I'm in agreement. As studies hit the news and get discussed on

> > sci.life-extension and other old-style internet groups, I keep a

running

> > mental count (subconscious) on should I or should I not be taking

> > something and how much (for general health and life extension). While

I

> > took calcium citrate for a long time, in the last month I flipped

toward

> > not taking it and stopped. The bit you mentioned about calcium

> > consumption depending on national eating styles was important and

> > another article that seemed to indicate that long term calcium

> > supplementation in women was not a positive thing cancer wise - an

> > article that didn't seem to be a trumped up news story.

> >

> > Steve

> >

> > Jim wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi Amy:

> > >

> > > My reading has led me to believe that we westerners actually do

> get too

> > > much calcium. Forget the 1000mg/day. One article that I read

compared

> > > Eastern cultures to ours comparing heart/ vascular disease rates vs.

> > > calcium intake and the results were clear. Prior to that I had taken

> > > Ezorb, which is an expensive super calcium source. In that time I

got

> > > the worst leg cramp that I have ever endured... a wake-up call .

> > > Putting one and one together, I threw out the remaining Ezorb (about

> > > $35 worth and have never taken any calcium supplements since. Since

> > > then, I have also read the book on transdermal magnesium among

plenty

> > > of other opinions and studies.

> > >

> > > My opinion based on the above is this: Take no calcium

> > > supplementation, period. If you want to control bone loss, rub in

> > > magnesium oil or gel... it has several added benefits and feels

great.

> > >

> > > Kind Regards, Jim

> > >

> > > Apricot85 wrote:

> > >

> > > > What you say about the cal-mag ratio is a legitimate concern - and

I

> > > > certainly do not disagree. I've never had stones, - but even

without

> > > > stones, there can be other, big problems from excessive or misused

> > > > calcium. It lodges in the brain, in the tissues, in the arteries.

> > > >

> > > > If I understand you correctly, you feel that you get enough

(approx

> > > > 1,000 mg) from your diet without supplementation.

> > > >

> > > > Here's a scary article ... they say it's too soon to be sure it's

> > true,

> > > > but the hypothesis is:

> > > > Payne and her associates believe the link may lie in an excess

> > > > absorption of calcium by blood vessel walls. These could form

> > bone-like

> > > > deposits that narrow blood vessels and restrict elasticity. Excess

> > > > vitamin D might exacerbate that process, they added.

> > > > http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>

> > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>>

> > > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>

> > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>>>

> > > >

> > > > Here's another one:

> > > > Most older brains don't learn or remember as well as younger

> ones do.

> > > > One possible reason is that rising calcium concentrations within

> > neurons

> > > > hamper memory and learning. Researchers have accumulated a small

> > pile of

> > > > supporting evidence for the calcium hypothesis, but key questions

> > remain

> > > > about calcium's interaction with other mechanisms of aging and its

> > > > effects on neuron activity.

> > > > http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>

> > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>>

> > > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>

> > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>>>

> > > >

> > > > Amy

> > > >

> > > > Jim wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > The calcium thing comes from experience... bad ones. We all

> > certainly

> > > > > need calcium, but taking calcium supplements causes huge

> > problems. The

> > > > > problem is with the calcium/magnesium balance... which one

> > supplement

> > > > > manufacturer CalMag tries to address. Their idea is good, but

the

> > > > > problem is that you will easily absorb calcium, but magnesium is

> > very

> > > > > difficult to get. The result is that you get an overabundance of

> > free

> > > > > calcium which floats around in your body and lands in places

that

> > > you do

> > > > > not want such as in the kidneys as stones and the arteries and

> > veins as

> > > > > plaque. Additionally, calcium causes muscles to contract (as in

a

> > > > > heart attack), while magnesium allows them to relax. Too much

> > calcium

> > > > > will cause severe leg cramps and possibly much worse.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyone who has had kidney stones is dancing with the devil if

> > they are

> > > > > adding calcium supplementation. You already have plenty of

> evidence

> > > > > that your free blood calcium level is excessive. What you need

is

> > > > > magnesium to balance it out. The only way to easily get that is

> > > > > transdermally. There is an online book on transdermal

magnesium...

> > > > > read it. This system works very well and is self-balancing,

> > since you

> > > > > only absorb what you need.

> > > > >

> > > > > For sleep adjustment try taking melatonin... it is very nice to

> > you and

> > > > > really helps.

> > > > >

> > > > > Good Luck, Jim

> > > > >

> > > > >

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Posted
Posted

>

> Jess felt that acidity was linked to her stones issues. Jess, do you

> feel that calcium has played a role for you.

Yes. Combining what had mentioned about most stones being calcium

and/or cholesterol and also bc I have certain bone issues my

chiropractor has shown me on x-rays. These issues feel better, in

addition to digestion issues, on baking soda so it would seem I can

conclude that I am absorbing more calcium when I am more alkaline.

Otherwise I guess it builds up in bad places.

Here is a simple way to think of it :

Q: I have been taking apple cider vinegar with soda bicarbonate and

feelreally very good. I was taking it for osteoarthirits. it has helped

mea lot. i have very less knee pains now. Recently, I met a doctor

friendand told him what I have been taking for my knee pains.

Unfortunately,he said that soda bicarbonate is not good to use it for

long term andalso said that it degenerates your bones in long term.

A: " I have been taking soda for about 35 years now. So if anyone with a

severe bone problem, it has got to be me.

Theissue is that this news is not true. Basically an osteporosis

orosteoarthritis are due to a mycobacterium which exists in an

acidicstate bound to the bones calcium. If the body is sufficiently

alkaline,the bone pain reduces. The baking soda does not reduce the

calcium.Baking soda is a bicarbonate which buffers the body against

pHfluctuation so the body can protect itself against the

mycobacterium.The major weakness of the mycobacterium IS the

bicarbonates. In fact ifthe body is sufficiently alkaline, it will not

cause the acidic bloodto eat the bone.

*One easy example to illustrate is if you put chickenbones in a vinegar

(acidic) for about a month, or even an egg shell,the acid vinegar will

REMOVE THE CALCIUM from the chicken bone. A longterm acid state of the

body is much like a chicken bone in a vinegar.The calcium is removed BY

ACIDITY, not by alkalization. Thus thealkalization will reduce any

leeching effect of the blood in removingthe calcium from your bones,

very much like acid rain that eats throughGreek statues. The fact is,

alkalization protects against calcium fromleeching from the bones

because it is the acid that eats through thecalcium.*

http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acv_baking_soda.html

<http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acv_baking_soda.html>

The more I look at the above site the more I learn. This guy also seems

to advocate honey in the concoction. In a previous post I had found a

source of research saying that honey increases calcium absorption.

He also uses apple cider vinegar instead of apple juice, which I may try

at some point.

There are places on that site that discus Ph strips, which are sounding

more and more like a good idea to me. I have to look for that info

another time as I am swimming in too much info right now, lol.

Here another good quote from that site :

So for me an ideal food, whether we talk about ACV [apple cider vinegar]

or any other foodshould GENERALLY be slightly alkaline. If you don't do

it for your bodythe body will change to an alkaline anyway, provided

that your body isFIT to do that! So it is best not to assume that your

body is FIT andit is best to assume the worst and just add the baking

soda as aprecaution.

Making it alkaline will giveyou the extra benefit of more oxygen in your

body and greater buffersthe body need so you should in fact feel better

with the newer formula.In fact, athletes takes pure baking soda to

relieve them of muscularpain from long physical endurance.

Everything to me is looking more and more like Ph is a huge factor, and

somebody can be getting all the right nutrients but if they are too

acidic (which seems to be common) the body is not going to be able to do

the right things with the nutrients.

From the Magnesium online site :

Bicarbonate's Importance to Human Health

CONTENTS

* Link: The Health Library

<http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#library> --why the blood level of

bicarbonate is important

* Article: Bicarbonate has beneficial effects on health

<http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#beneficial>

* Article: Bicarbonate helps physically active people combat

fatigue <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#helps>

* Bibliography: Bicarbonate-related articles

<http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#biblio>

* Link: Finding may shed light on causes behind cystic fibrosis

<http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#finding>

* Abstract: Cross-over study of the influence of bicarbonate-rich

mineral water on urinary composition

<http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#study> in comparison with sodium

potassium citrate in healthy male subjects

* Link: Contraindication for bicarbonate

<http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#contra>

http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml

<http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml>

and

Normal adult humans eating typical American dietscharacteristically have

chronic, low-grade metabolic acidosis (l-4).That persisting perturbation

of systemic acid-base equilibrium occursbecause metabolism of the diet

releases noncarbonic acids into thesystemic circulation (eg. sulfuric

acid from metabolism of protein) inamounts that exceed the amounts of

base released concomitantly (eg.bicarbonate from combustion of organic

acid salts of potassium invegetable foods) (5, 6). The size of the

discrepancy between acid andbase production determines the net

endogenous acid production rate (ie,the net acid load of the diet),

which in turn determines the degree ofperturbation of systemic acid-base

equilibrium (1, 2, 4). Under normalphysiologic circumstances, the net

endogenous acid production rate andthe degree of the attendant low-grade

metabolic acidosis are determinedprimarily by the composition of the

diet (2, 4).

With advancing age, the severity of diet-dependent acidosis

increasesindependently of diet (3, 4). That occurs because kidney

functionordinarily declines substantially with age, resulting in a

conditionsimilar to that of chronic renal insufficiency (7). Renal

insufficiencyinduces metabolic acidosis by reducing conservation of

filteredbicarbonate and excretion of acid. "

http://www.mgwater.com/estend.shtml

<http://www.mgwater.com/estend.shtml>

What the above seems to be saying is that once you get too acidic, it

just gets worse. It seems claims the kidneys' low function in older age

as the reason for it getting worse, but I think it is clear the acid is

the real problem.

Now one source who has been taking baking soda for a long time and knows

others doing the same, witnessed " it has healed any number of DISEASES

from ANGINA (heart muscle tightening) to Arthritis and Cirrhosis of the

Liver. "

This person also says to drink about 4 ounces of distilled water after

taking the baking soda.

I am still looking into why for this. I don't know if the person knows

the science behind it, but I am starting to theorize the following:

The only thing I have really heard about distilled water before is not

to make it your only source of water. That is bc it is so void of

anything, by osmosis it can pull out needed nutrients.

So. . . .perhaps a little of it after the baking soda would pull out

whatever were the negative aspects of the sodium bicarbonate???

> The reaction is in my lip. I don't see a reaction anywhere else, only

my

> lip. I can bring on this lip reaction on purpose - by just taking

> calcium or magnesium supplement.

Hmm the only time I had that kind of a thing it turned out to be from

mango sap (eating mango from the rind). Apparently the mango tree is

related to poison oak (!) and I am very sensitive to that stuff.

>

> Amy

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Hi, Jim. I should have said that I get a reaction from an *imbalance*

between calcium & magnesium. This doesn't necessarily negate your

point. But I thought I should clarify.

If I take magnesium without calcium (or not in proportion to calcium), I

my lower lip cracks & peels in the center. This occurs pretty fast -

within 15 minutes. When this happens, I can FIX it by taking a bit of

calcium. The healing begins within 15 minutes! It's quite fast. It's

very weird.

If I take calcium without magnesium (or not in proportion to calcium),

my upper lip cracks... not like the lower does though. But if take some

more magnesium, the lip corrects itself. Calcium without magnesium will

also give me the foot cramps, & these go away shortly after taking

magnesium.

If I take close to the 2:1 ratio of cal to mag, I don't have any lip, or

cramping issues. If I avoid both calcium & magnesium, my lower lip

doesn't do the peeling act. It gets dry after a while... but not the

same. However, when I don't take anything, my sleep changes & I don't

sleep for very long.

I've heard a lot that people react to calcium with the foot or calf

cramping. I don't know anyone who has any negative reaction to

magnesium w/out cal. I know cal & mag share right-left receptors. I

don't know if that is what the issue is. I agree with your about the

veggies & also the veggies help the pH.

Jim wrote:

>

> Hi Amy:

>

> You say that you get bad reactions from taking magnesium... don't we

> all? I assume that you mean orally?

>

> My opinion is that you should be eating plenty of green foods like

> spinach which supply a balanced intake of minerals that the body

> understands. Magnesium supplementation transdermally also allows for

> natural adjustments where the metallic compounds do not.

>

> Regards, Jim

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Thanks for posting all this. It was very helpful.

wrote:

>

>

> >

> > Jess felt that acidity was linked to her stones issues. Jess, do you

> > feel that calcium has played a role for you.

>

> Yes. Combining what had mentioned about most stones being calcium

> and/or cholesterol and also bc I have certain bone issues my

> chiropractor has shown me on x-rays. These issues feel better, in

> addition to digestion issues, on baking soda so it would seem I can

> conclude that I am absorbing more calcium when I am more alkaline.

> Otherwise I guess it builds up in bad places.

>

> Here is a simple way to think of it :

>

> Q: I have been taking apple cider vinegar with soda bicarbonate and

> feelreally very good. I was taking it for osteoarthirits. it has helped

> mea lot. i have very less knee pains now. Recently, I met a doctor

> friendand told him what I have been taking for my knee pains.

> Unfortunately,he said that soda bicarbonate is not good to use it for

> long term andalso said that it degenerates your bones in long term.

>

> A: " I have been taking soda for about 35 years now. So if anyone with a

> severe bone problem, it has got to be me.

> Theissue is that this news is not true. Basically an osteporosis

> orosteoarthritis are due to a mycobacterium which exists in an

> acidicstate bound to the bones calcium. If the body is sufficiently

> alkaline,the bone pain reduces. The baking soda does not reduce the

> calcium.Baking soda is a bicarbonate which buffers the body against

> pHfluctuation so the body can protect itself against the

> mycobacterium.The major weakness of the mycobacterium IS the

> bicarbonates. In fact ifthe body is sufficiently alkaline, it will not

> cause the acidic bloodto eat the bone.

>

> *One easy example to illustrate is if you put chickenbones in a vinegar

> (acidic) for about a month, or even an egg shell,the acid vinegar will

> REMOVE THE CALCIUM from the chicken bone. A longterm acid state of the

> body is much like a chicken bone in a vinegar.The calcium is removed BY

> ACIDITY, not by alkalization. Thus thealkalization will reduce any

> leeching effect of the blood in removingthe calcium from your bones,

> very much like acid rain that eats throughGreek statues. The fact is,

> alkalization protects against calcium fromleeching from the bones

> because it is the acid that eats through thecalcium.*

> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acv_baking_soda.html

> <http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acv_baking_soda.html>

> <http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acv_baking_soda.html

> <http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acv_baking_soda.html>>

>

> The more I look at the above site the more I learn. This guy also seems

> to advocate honey in the concoction. In a previous post I had found a

> source of research saying that honey increases calcium absorption.

>

> He also uses apple cider vinegar instead of apple juice, which I may try

> at some point.

>

> There are places on that site that discus Ph strips, which are sounding

> more and more like a good idea to me. I have to look for that info

> another time as I am swimming in too much info right now, lol.

>

> Here another good quote from that site :

>

> So for me an ideal food, whether we talk about ACV [apple cider vinegar]

> or any other foodshould GENERALLY be slightly alkaline. If you don't do

> it for your bodythe body will change to an alkaline anyway, provided

> that your body isFIT to do that! So it is best not to assume that your

> body is FIT andit is best to assume the worst and just add the baking

> soda as aprecaution.

> Making it alkaline will giveyou the extra benefit of more oxygen in your

> body and greater buffersthe body need so you should in fact feel better

> with the newer formula.In fact, athletes takes pure baking soda to

> relieve them of muscularpain from long physical endurance.

>

> Everything to me is looking more and more like Ph is a huge factor, and

> somebody can be getting all the right nutrients but if they are too

> acidic (which seems to be common) the body is not going to be able to do

> the right things with the nutrients.

>

> >From the Magnesium online site :

>

> Bicarbonate's Importance to Human Health

> CONTENTS

> * Link: The Health Library

> <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#library

> <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#library>> --why the blood level of

> bicarbonate is important

> * Article: Bicarbonate has beneficial effects on health

> <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#beneficial

> <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#beneficial>>

> * Article: Bicarbonate helps physically active people combat

> fatigue <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#helps

> <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#helps>>

> * Bibliography: Bicarbonate-related articles

> <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#biblio

> <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#biblio>>

> * Link: Finding may shed light on causes behind cystic fibrosis

> <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#finding

> <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#finding>>

> * Abstract: Cross-over study of the influence of bicarbonate-rich

> mineral water on urinary composition

> <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#study

> <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#study>> in comparison with sodium

> potassium citrate in healthy male subjects

> * Link: Contraindication for bicarbonate

> <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#contra

> <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml#contra>>

> http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml>

> <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml

> <http://www.mgwater.com/bicarb.shtml>>

>

> and

>

> Normal adult humans eating typical American dietscharacteristically have

> chronic, low-grade metabolic acidosis (l-4).That persisting perturbation

> of systemic acid-base equilibrium occursbecause metabolism of the diet

> releases noncarbonic acids into thesystemic circulation (eg. sulfuric

> acid from metabolism of protein) inamounts that exceed the amounts of

> base released concomitantly (eg.bicarbonate from combustion of organic

> acid salts of potassium invegetable foods) (5, 6). The size of the

> discrepancy between acid andbase production determines the net

> endogenous acid production rate (ie,the net acid load of the diet),

> which in turn determines the degree ofperturbation of systemic acid-base

> equilibrium (1, 2, 4). Under normalphysiologic circumstances, the net

> endogenous acid production rate andthe degree of the attendant low-grade

> metabolic acidosis are determinedprimarily by the composition of the

> diet (2, 4).

>

> With advancing age, the severity of diet-dependent acidosis

> increasesindependently of diet (3, 4). That occurs because kidney

> functionordinarily declines substantially with age, resulting in a

> conditionsimilar to that of chronic renal insufficiency (7). Renal

> insufficiencyinduces metabolic acidosis by reducing conservation of

> filteredbicarbonate and excretion of acid. "

>

> http://www.mgwater.com/estend.shtml <http://www.mgwater.com/estend.shtml>

> <http://www.mgwater.com/estend.shtml

> <http://www.mgwater.com/estend.shtml>>

>

> What the above seems to be saying is that once you get too acidic, it

> just gets worse. It seems claims the kidneys' low function in older age

> as the reason for it getting worse, but I think it is clear the acid is

> the real problem.

>

> Now one source who has been taking baking soda for a long time and knows

> others doing the same, witnessed " it has healed any number of DISEASES

> from ANGINA (heart muscle tightening) to Arthritis and Cirrhosis of the

> Liver. "

>

> This person also says to drink about 4 ounces of distilled water after

> taking the baking soda.

>

> I am still looking into why for this. I don't know if the person knows

> the science behind it, but I am starting to theorize the following:

>

> The only thing I have really heard about distilled water before is not

> to make it your only source of water. That is bc it is so void of

> anything, by osmosis it can pull out needed nutrients.

>

> So. . . .perhaps a little of it after the baking soda would pull out

> whatever were the negative aspects of the sodium bicarbonate???

>

> > The reaction is in my lip. I don't see a reaction anywhere else, only

> my

> > lip. I can bring on this lip reaction on purpose - by just taking

> > calcium or magnesium supplement.

>

> Hmm the only time I had that kind of a thing it turned out to be from

> mango sap (eating mango from the rind). Apparently the mango tree is

> related to poison oak (!) and I am very sensitive to that stuff.

>

>

>

> >

> > Amy

> >

> >

> >

>

>

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Hmmm.. good question. Spinach is one of the few veggies that does

well cooked as well as raw. As I understand it, sweet potatoes and

pumpkin release their nutrients (especially beta caratine) when cooked,

so are not good raw. Generally, however, I am a great believer in a

raw food diet whenever possible, but, as I understand it, spinach is a

good idea either way, especially for an organic calcium source....

comments anyone?

jessie70 wrote:

> Jim do you mean cooked or raw spinach? Jess

> Re: Really Improved My Health/ ..... Deteriorating

> Kidney Function!

>

> Hi Amy:

>

> You say that you get bad reactions from taking magnesium... don't we

> all? I assume that you mean orally?

>

> My opinion is that you should be eating plenty of green foods like

> spinach which supply a balanced intake of minerals that the body

> understands. Magnesium supplementation transdermally also allows for

> natural adjustments where the metallic compounds do not.

>

> Regards, Jim

>

> Apricot85 wrote:

>

> > Calcium does seem to be a legitimate concern. Some reasons that go

> > through my mind are

> > 1) dysregulation of calcium in the body... maybe from other deficiencies

> > that we know will dysregulate calcium (e.g. vit K, or vit D), or

> > something else & things we don't know... there's plenty that we don't

> > know (ie. hormones).

> > 2) excess calcium (either diet or supplementation) & the body doesn't

> > manage excess well. Perhaps similar to excess calories.

> > 3) not taking any calcium may not totally solve the problem - because if

> > there isn't enough calcium that the organs use, then it pulls it out of

> > the bones. The test that can show this is the PTH test, but this test

> > isn't always reliable. We can't rely on calcium test, because the body

> > will always take calcium from the bones - to keep calcium in the blood &

> > available for essential functions.

> >

> > Jess felt that acidity was linked to her stones issues. Jess, do you

> > feel that calcium has played a role for you.

> >

> > I have a lot of thoughts about all this, but running short on time.

> > Some things that I've noted is that Wafker (sp) includes calcium

> > bi-glicinate in his supplement regimen. I think he also includes some

> > yogurt, kefir and milk - but I'm not sure how much. The heart does rely

> > on some calcium to beat - right? I would have to look this up, but let

> > me know if you think otherwise. I had understood that the organs

> > needed some calcium for proper function, but perhaps this is outdated

> > and wrong.

> >

> > I would like to know if those who avoid calcium from all sources have

> > DEXA scans. I would like to know how those go. This really is my

> > biggest question.

> >

> > Also, I am a weird one... in that I get reactions if I take magnesium

> > without calcium, and also when I take calcium without magnesium. Whats

> > up with that. I do not know any one who has a reaction like me.

> > There's always an oddball & I guess I'm at the plate for that. If I

> > take nothing, I don't get a reaction at all. It's very weird. The

> > reaction is in my lip. I don't see a reaction anywhere else, only my

> > lip. I can bring on this lip reaction on purpose - by just taking

> > calcium or magnesium supplement.

> >

> > My biggest question how DEXA scans look for those who avoid calcium.

> > Because if the bones are OK, that gives some clue about the rest of the

> > body.

> >

> > Amy

> >

> > Steve wrote:

> > >

> > > I'm in agreement. As studies hit the news and get discussed on

> > > sci.life-extension and other old-style internet groups, I keep a

> running

> > > mental count (subconscious) on should I or should I not be taking

> > > something and how much (for general health and life extension). While

> I

> > > took calcium citrate for a long time, in the last month I flipped

> toward

> > > not taking it and stopped. The bit you mentioned about calcium

> > > consumption depending on national eating styles was important and

> > > another article that seemed to indicate that long term calcium

> > > supplementation in women was not a positive thing cancer wise - an

> > > article that didn't seem to be a trumped up news story.

> > >

> > > Steve

> > >

> > > Jim wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hi Amy:

> > > >

> > > > My reading has led me to believe that we westerners actually do

> > get too

> > > > much calcium. Forget the 1000mg/day. One article that I read

> compared

> > > > Eastern cultures to ours comparing heart/ vascular disease rates vs.

> > > > calcium intake and the results were clear. Prior to that I had taken

> > > > Ezorb, which is an expensive super calcium source. In that time I

> got

> > > > the worst leg cramp that I have ever endured... a wake-up call .

> > > > Putting one and one together, I threw out the remaining Ezorb (about

> > > > $35 worth and have never taken any calcium supplements since. Since

> > > > then, I have also read the book on transdermal magnesium among

> plenty

> > > > of other opinions and studies.

> > > >

> > > > My opinion based on the above is this: Take no calcium

> > > > supplementation, period. If you want to control bone loss, rub in

> > > > magnesium oil or gel... it has several added benefits and feels

> great.

> > > >

> > > > Kind Regards, Jim

> > > >

> > > > Apricot85 wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > What you say about the cal-mag ratio is a legitimate concern - and

> I

> > > > > certainly do not disagree. I've never had stones, - but even

> without

> > > > > stones, there can be other, big problems from excessive or misused

> > > > > calcium. It lodges in the brain, in the tissues, in the arteries.

> > > > >

> > > > > If I understand you correctly, you feel that you get enough

> (approx

> > > > > 1,000 mg) from your diet without supplementation.

> > > > >

> > > > > Here's a scary article ... they say it's too soon to be sure it's

> > > true,

> > > > > but the hypothesis is:

> > > > > Payne and her associates believe the link may lie in an excess

> > > > > absorption of calcium by blood vessel walls. These could form

> > > bone-like

> > > > > deposits that narrow blood vessels and restrict elasticity. Excess

> > > > > vitamin D might exacerbate that process, they added.

> > > > >

> http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>

> > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>>

> > > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>

> > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>>>

> > > > >

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>

> > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>>

> > > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>

> > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>>>>

> > > > >

> > > > > Here's another one:

> > > > > Most older brains don't learn or remember as well as younger

> > ones do.

> > > > > One possible reason is that rising calcium concentrations within

> > > neurons

> > > > > hamper memory and learning. Researchers have accumulated a small

> > > pile of

> > > > > supporting evidence for the calcium hypothesis, but key questions

> > > remain

> > > > > about calcium's interaction with other mechanisms of aging and its

> > > > > effects on neuron activity.

> > > > > http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>

> > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>>

> > > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>

> > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>>>

> > > > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>

> > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>>

> > > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>

> > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>>>>

> > > > >

> > > > > Amy

> > > > >

> > > > > Jim wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The calcium thing comes from experience... bad ones. We all

> > > certainly

> > > > > > need calcium, but taking calcium supplements causes huge

> > > problems. The

> > > > > > problem is with the calcium/magnesium balance... which one

> > > supplement

> > > > > > manufacturer CalMag tries to address. Their idea is good, but

> the

> > > > > > problem is that you will easily absorb calcium, but magnesium is

> > > very

> > > > > > difficult to get. The result is that you get an overabundance of

> > > free

> > > > > > calcium which floats around in your body and lands in places

> that

> > > > you do

> > > > > > not want such as in the kidneys as stones and the arteries and

> > > veins as

> > > > > > plaque. Additionally, calcium causes muscles to contract (as in

> a

> > > > > > heart attack), while magnesium allows them to relax. Too much

> > > calcium

> > > > > > will cause severe leg cramps and possibly much worse.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyone who has had kidney stones is dancing with the devil if

> > > they are

> > > > > > adding calcium supplementation. You already have plenty of

> > evidence

> > > > > > that your free blood calcium level is excessive. What you need

> is

> > > > > > magnesium to balance it out. The only way to easily get that is

> > > > > > transdermally. There is an online book on transdermal

> magnesium...

> > > > > > read it. This system works very well and is self-balancing,

> > > since you

> > > > > > only absorb what you need.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For sleep adjustment try taking melatonin... it is very nice to

> > > you and

> > > > > > really helps.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Good Luck, Jim

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

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Hi Amy:

Wow... what a sensitive one you are! That lip reaction is very

interesting. One thing for sure is that you are paying attention and

that is key. It sounds like you are absorbing your magnesium just

fine. Do you ever get a diarrhea reaction from too much oral

magnesium? I literally can't take any oral form of magnesium, even

chelated in small quantities, so the transdermal works great for me.

Also, I like the feel of the magnesium gel after a shower as long as I

do not apply too much.

Regards, Jim

Apricot85 wrote:

> Hi, Jim. I should have said that I get a reaction from an *imbalance*

> between calcium & magnesium. This doesn't necessarily negate your

> point. But I thought I should clarify.

>

> If I take magnesium without calcium (or not in proportion to calcium), I

> my lower lip cracks & peels in the center. This occurs pretty fast -

> within 15 minutes. When this happens, I can FIX it by taking a bit of

> calcium. The healing begins within 15 minutes! It's quite fast. It's

> very weird.

>

> If I take calcium without magnesium (or not in proportion to calcium),

> my upper lip cracks... not like the lower does though. But if take some

> more magnesium, the lip corrects itself. Calcium without magnesium will

> also give me the foot cramps, & these go away shortly after taking

> magnesium.

>

> If I take close to the 2:1 ratio of cal to mag, I don't have any lip, or

> cramping issues. If I avoid both calcium & magnesium, my lower lip

> doesn't do the peeling act. It gets dry after a while... but not the

> same. However, when I don't take anything, my sleep changes & I don't

> sleep for very long.

>

> I've heard a lot that people react to calcium with the foot or calf

> cramping. I don't know anyone who has any negative reaction to

> magnesium w/out cal. I know cal & mag share right-left receptors. I

> don't know if that is what the issue is. I agree with your about the

> veggies & also the veggies help the pH.

>

> Jim wrote:

> >

> > Hi Amy:

> >

> > You say that you get bad reactions from taking magnesium... don't we

> > all? I assume that you mean orally?

> >

> > My opinion is that you should be eating plenty of green foods like

> > spinach which supply a balanced intake of minerals that the body

> > understands. Magnesium supplementation transdermally also allows for

> > natural adjustments where the metallic compounds do not.

> >

> > Regards, Jim

> >

> >

>

>

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Great :) I did pick up some distilled water, and give it two thumbs up

for 4oz per teaspoon of baking soda or so, taken alone a little while

after the soda/apple concoction.

> >

> >>

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Lip cracking in the centre is a classic symptom of Pulsatilla in Homeo.

===================================

Jim wrote:

> Hi Amy:

>

> Wow... what a sensitive one you are! That lip reaction is very

> interesting. One thing for sure is that you are paying attention and

> that is key. It sounds like you are absorbing your magnesium just

> fine. Do you ever get a diarrhea reaction from too much oral

> magnesium? I literally can't take any oral form of magnesium, even

> chelated in small quantities, so the transdermal works great for me.

> Also, I like the feel of the magnesium gel after a shower as long as I

> do not apply too much.

>

> Regards, Jim

>

> Apricot85 wrote:

>

>

>> Hi, Jim. I should have said that I get a reaction from an *imbalance*

>> between calcium & magnesium. This doesn't necessarily negate your

>> point. But I thought I should clarify.

>>

>> If I take magnesium without calcium (or not in proportion to calcium), I

>> my lower lip cracks & peels in the center. This occurs pretty fast -

>> within 15 minutes. When this happens, I can FIX it by taking a bit of

>> calcium. The healing begins within 15 minutes! It's quite fast. It's

>> very weird.

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I don't get a diarrhea action at all, BUT I don't think I'm normal. I

do know plenty of people who have that reaction to magnesium in any

form. I assume that such a reaction is somewhat normal.

Life long, I've been very sluggish. I find that cooked beans with

cabbage helps the most of all veggies & fruits, and occasional

probiotics seem encouraging. Thyroid meds are purported to increase

bowel movement, but it seems like my bowels just acclimated. If I do

everything 'right' will be a once-a-day girl. ;-)

Also, if I eat too little food, and if 'action' shuts down for too long,

I then can take a bunch of magnesium oxide (2-3G), which blows

everything through the next day. But mag oxide does not do for me what

mag citrate does on that lip thing. I don't feel any reaction to mag

oxide at all until the next day :-) I do know others who say that mag

oxide cleans out whereas mag citrate does not. YMMV.

Some of the online references I've read say that mag oxide is for

absorption and mag citrate is for cleaning out. My experience is

opposite, so I don't know what to say about that. I took a bath with

baking soda and epsom salt the other night - I assume half hour is

enough time. I didn't notice anything from that.

Amy

Jim wrote:

>

> Hi Amy:

>

> Wow... what a sensitive one you are! That lip reaction is very

> interesting. One thing for sure is that you are paying attention and

> that is key. It sounds like you are absorbing your magnesium just

> fine. Do you ever get a diarrhea reaction from too much oral

> magnesium? I literally can't take any oral form of magnesium, even

> chelated in small quantities, so the transdermal works great for me.

> Also, I like the feel of the magnesium gel after a shower as long as I

> do not apply too much.

>

> Regards, Jim

>

> Apricot85 wrote:

>

> > Hi, Jim. I should have said that I get a reaction from an *imbalance*

> > between calcium & magnesium. This doesn't necessarily negate your

> > point. But I thought I should clarify.

> >

> > If I take magnesium without calcium (or not in proportion to calcium), I

> > my lower lip cracks & peels in the center. This occurs pretty fast -

> > within 15 minutes. When this happens, I can FIX it by taking a bit of

> > calcium. The healing begins within 15 minutes! It's quite fast. It's

> > very weird.

> >

> > If I take calcium without magnesium (or not in proportion to calcium),

> > my upper lip cracks... not like the lower does though. But if take some

> > more magnesium, the lip corrects itself. Calcium without magnesium will

> > also give me the foot cramps, & these go away shortly after taking

> > magnesium.

> >

> > If I take close to the 2:1 ratio of cal to mag, I don't have any lip, or

> > cramping issues. If I avoid both calcium & magnesium, my lower lip

> > doesn't do the peeling act. It gets dry after a while... but not the

> > same. However, when I don't take anything, my sleep changes & I don't

> > sleep for very long.

> >

> > I've heard a lot that people react to calcium with the foot or calf

> > cramping. I don't know anyone who has any negative reaction to

> > magnesium w/out cal. I know cal & mag share right-left receptors. I

> > don't know if that is what the issue is. I agree with your about the

> > veggies & also the veggies help the pH.

> >

> > Jim wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Amy:

> > >

> > > You say that you get bad reactions from taking magnesium... don't we

> > > all? I assume that you mean orally?

> > >

> > > My opinion is that you should be eating plenty of green foods like

> > > spinach which supply a balanced intake of minerals that the body

> > > understands. Magnesium supplementation transdermally also allows for

> > > natural adjustments where the metallic compounds do not.

> > >

> > > Regards, Jim

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

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I don't exclude spinach in my diet, but rather eat it in moderation. It may be

high in oxalic acid. Whether that would cause kidney stones, I'm not sure. If

one's diet is well balanced and high in minerals/trace minerals, vitamins etc:

then probaby there is no harm. The nutrients in spinach may outweigh the

negative. Turnip greens and kale are quite tasty and lower in oxalic acid. What

do the reader's think of spinach? S.J.

http://www.fredericpatenaude.com/questions/oxalicacid.html

t> wrote:

Hmmm.. good question. Spinach is one of the few veggies that does

well cooked as well as raw. As I understand it, sweet potatoes and

pumpkin release their nutrients (especially beta caratine) when cooked,

so are not good raw. Generally, however, I am a great believer in a

raw food diet whenever possible, but, as I understand it, spinach is a

good idea either way, especially for an organic calcium source....

comments anyone?

jessie70 wrote:

> Jim do you mean cooked or raw spinach? Jess

> Re: Really Improved My Health/ ..... Deteriorating

> Kidney Function!

>

> Hi Amy:

>

> You say that you get bad reactions from taking magnesium... don't we

> all? I assume that you mean orally?

>

> My opinion is that you should be eating plenty of green foods like

> spinach which supply a balanced intake of minerals that the body

> understands. Magnesium supplementation transdermally also allows for

> natural adjustments where the metallic compounds do not.

>

> Regards, Jim

>

> Apricot85 wrote:

>

> > Calcium does seem to be a legitimate concern. Some reasons that go

> > through my mind are

> > 1) dysregulation of calcium in the body... maybe from other deficiencies

> > that we know will dysregulate calcium (e.g. vit K, or vit D), or

> > something else & things we don't know... there's plenty that we don't

> > know (ie. hormones).

> > 2) excess calcium (either diet or supplementation) & the body doesn't

> > manage excess well. Perhaps similar to excess calories.

> > 3) not taking any calcium may not totally solve the problem - because if

> > there isn't enough calcium that the organs use, then it pulls it out of

> > the bones. The test that can show this is the PTH test, but this test

> > isn't always reliable. We can't rely on calcium test, because the body

> > will always take calcium from the bones - to keep calcium in the blood &

> > available for essential functions.

> >

> > Jess felt that acidity was linked to her stones issues. Jess, do you

> > feel that calcium has played a role for you.

> >

> > I have a lot of thoughts about all this, but running short on time.

> > Some things that I've noted is that Wafker (sp) includes calcium

> > bi-glicinate in his supplement regimen. I think he also includes some

> > yogurt, kefir and milk - but I'm not sure how much. The heart does rely

> > on some calcium to beat - right? I would have to look this up, but let

> > me know if you think otherwise. I had understood that the organs

> > needed some calcium for proper function, but perhaps this is outdated

> > and wrong.

> >

> > I would like to know if those who avoid calcium from all sources have

> > DEXA scans. I would like to know how those go. This really is my

> > biggest question.

> >

> > Also, I am a weird one... in that I get reactions if I take magnesium

> > without calcium, and also when I take calcium without magnesium. Whats

> > up with that. I do not know any one who has a reaction like me.

> > There's always an oddball & I guess I'm at the plate for that. If I

> > take nothing, I don't get a reaction at all. It's very weird. The

> > reaction is in my lip. I don't see a reaction anywhere else, only my

> > lip. I can bring on this lip reaction on purpose - by just taking

> > calcium or magnesium supplement.

> >

> > My biggest question how DEXA scans look for those who avoid calcium.

> > Because if the bones are OK, that gives some clue about the rest of the

> > body.

> >

> > Amy

> >

> > Steve wrote:

> > >

> > > I'm in agreement. As studies hit the news and get discussed on

> > > sci.life-extension and other old-style internet groups, I keep a

> running

> > > mental count (subconscious) on should I or should I not be taking

> > > something and how much (for general health and life extension). While

> I

> > > took calcium citrate for a long time, in the last month I flipped

> toward

> > > not taking it and stopped. The bit you mentioned about calcium

> > > consumption depending on national eating styles was important and

> > > another article that seemed to indicate that long term calcium

> > > supplementation in women was not a positive thing cancer wise - an

> > > article that didn't seem to be a trumped up news story.

> > >

> > > Steve

> > >

> > > Jim wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hi Amy:

> > > >

> > > > My reading has led me to believe that we westerners actually do

> > get too

> > > > much calcium. Forget the 1000mg/day. One article that I read

> compared

> > > > Eastern cultures to ours comparing heart/ vascular disease rates vs.

> > > > calcium intake and the results were clear. Prior to that I had taken

> > > > Ezorb, which is an expensive super calcium source. In that time I

> got

> > > > the worst leg cramp that I have ever endured... a wake-up call .

> > > > Putting one and one together, I threw out the remaining Ezorb (about

> > > > $35 worth and have never taken any calcium supplements since. Since

> > > > then, I have also read the book on transdermal magnesium among

> plenty

> > > > of other opinions and studies.

> > > >

> > > > My opinion based on the above is this: Take no calcium

> > > > supplementation, period. If you want to control bone loss, rub in

> > > > magnesium oil or gel... it has several added benefits and feels

> great.

> > > >

> > > > Kind Regards, Jim

> > > >

> > > > Apricot85 wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > What you say about the cal-mag ratio is a legitimate concern - and

> I

> > > > > certainly do not disagree. I've never had stones, - but even

> without

> > > > > stones, there can be other, big problems from excessive or misused

> > > > > calcium. It lodges in the brain, in the tissues, in the arteries.

> > > > >

> > > > > If I understand you correctly, you feel that you get enough

> (approx

> > > > > 1,000 mg) from your diet without supplementation.

> > > > >

> > > > > Here's a scary article ... they say it's too soon to be sure it's

> > > true,

> > > > > but the hypothesis is:

> > > > > Payne and her associates believe the link may lie in an excess

> > > > > absorption of calcium by blood vessel walls. These could form

> > > bone-like

> > > > > deposits that narrow blood vessels and restrict elasticity. Excess

> > > > > vitamin D might exacerbate that process, they added.

> > > > >

> http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>

> > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>>

> > > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>

> > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>>>

> > > > >

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>

> > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>>

> > > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>

> > > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>

> > <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821

> <http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80821>>>>>

> > > > >

> > > > > Here's another one:

> > > > > Most older brains don't learn or remember as well as younger

> > ones do.

> > > > > One possible reason is that rising calcium concentrations within

> > > neurons

> > > > > hamper memory and learning. Researchers have accumulated a small

> > > pile of

> > > > > supporting evidence for the calcium hypothesis, but key questions

> > > remain

> > > > > about calcium's interaction with other mechanisms of aging and its

> > > > > effects on neuron activity.

> > > > > http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>

> > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>>

> > > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>

> > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>>>

> > > > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>

> > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>>

> > > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>

> > > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>

> > <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4

> <http://sageke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2002/15/ns4>>>>>

> > > > >

> > > > > Amy

> > > > >

> > > > > Jim wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The calcium thing comes from experience... bad ones. We all

> > > certainly

> > > > > > need calcium, but taking calcium supplements causes huge

> > > problems. The

> > > > > > problem is with the calcium/magnesium balance... which one

> > > supplement

> > > > > > manufacturer CalMag tries to address. Their idea is good, but

> the

> > > > > > problem is that you will easily absorb calcium, but magnesium is

> > > very

> > > > > > difficult to get. The result is that you get an overabundance of

> > > free

> > > > > > calcium which floats around in your body and lands in places

> that

> > > > you do

> > > > > > not want such as in the kidneys as stones and the arteries and

> > > veins as

> > > > > > plaque. Additionally, calcium causes muscles to contract (as in

> a

> > > > > > heart attack), while magnesium allows them to relax. Too much

> > > calcium

> > > > > > will cause severe leg cramps and possibly much worse.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyone who has had kidney stones is dancing with the devil if

> > > they are

> > > > > > adding calcium supplementation. You already have plenty of

> > evidence

> > > > > > that your free blood calcium level is excessive. What you need

> is

> > > > > > magnesium to balance it out. The only way to easily get that is

> > > > > > transdermally. There is an online book on transdermal

> magnesium...

> > > > > > read it. This system works very well and is self-balancing,

> > > since you

> > > > > > only absorb what you need.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For sleep adjustment try taking melatonin... it is very nice to

> > > you and

> > > > > > really helps.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Good Luck, Jim

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

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