Guest guest Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 At 07:33 PM 11/7/2006, you wrote: >I am looking for any evidence that synthetic fragrance poses >a greater risk than essential >oils and natural fragrances, which is proving more dificult than I >thought. I don't need >anything more on phthalates, but I'm trying to find hard data on any >inherent risk from >petroleum-derived chemicals, or other risks associated with >synthetics, whether skin >reactions, carcinogens or other. Please write to me offline if you >have suggestions. OK, here's what I pulled out of my bookmarks searching for toxic or chemical: Here is a greenpeace article on the synth chems, on phthalates and artificial musks: http://www.greenpeace.org/raw/content/international/press/reports/phthalates-and\ -artificial-musk.pdf http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/press/reports/perfume-an-investigation-of Greenpeace's article on toxic perfumes. You have to download the PDF to see the list and the chems them contain. http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/health/feeds/hscout/2005/01/10/hscout523271.html The synth musk/immune system article. http://www.ameliaww.com/fpin/FragMatTox.htm#carcinogen toxic/carcinogenic fragrance materials the index for the above page: http://www.ameliaww.com/fpin/FragMatTox.htm#TOP http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/04/27/news/perfume.php newspaper article http://www.ourlittleplace.com/chemicals.html http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/health/feeds/hscout/2005/01/10/hscout523271.html magazine article on artificial musks Anya McCoy Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://anyasgarden.com Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://artisannaturalperfumers.org Natural Perfumers Chat Group / ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.30/521 - Release Date: 11/7/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 synthetics are petroleum-derived, and I'm particularly wondering whether this is likely to > imbue them with any toxicity <<SNIP>> You are right on about the petroleum derived culprits, btw, . Organic solvents remain the number one carcinogen in our consumer products. The National Academy of Sciences targeted fragrances as one of the six categories of chemicals that should be given high priority for neurotoxicity testing. The other groups include insecticides, heavy metals, solvents, food additives and certain air pollutants. 95% of chemicals used in fragrances are synthetic compounds derived from petroleum. They include benzene derivatives, aldehydes, and many other known toxics and sensitizers - capable of causing cancer, birth defects, central nervous system disorders and allergic reactions. " Neurotoxins: At Home and the Workplace " (Report by the Committee on Science and Technology. U.S. House of Representatives, Sept, 16, 1986) [Report 99-827] A few chemicals found in fragrances known to be neurotoxic: hexachlorophene; acetyl-ethyl-tetramethyl-tetralin; zinc- pyridinethione; 2,4,dinitro-3-methyl-6-tert-butylanisole; 1-Butanol; 2-butanol; tert-Butanol; Isobutanol; t-Butyl Toluene. Neurotoxic properties of chemicals found in fragrances have caused testicular atrophy in lab animals as well as myelin disease. The myelin sheath protects the nerves and does not regenerate. (Compiled from TOXLINE database of fragrances industry and medical journals.) Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson's, Lupus, and Alzheimer's are all neurological disorders. Dyslexia is a neurological dysfunction. Could any of these neurological dysfunctions be caused by exposure to neurotoxic chemicals? Symptoms are often identical to chemical hypersensitivity. Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) is also a neurological dysfunction. Could fragrant fabric softeners or detergents emitting neurotoxic chemicals cause the neurological breakdown? A few chemicals found in fragrances known to cause cancer and birth defects: methylene chloride; toluene; methyl ethyl ketone; methyl isobutyl ketone; tert Butyl; sec Butyl; benzyl chloride. (Compiled by comparing a list of 120 fragrance chemicals from the EPA obtained through the Freedom of Information Act and California's Prop 65 List of Chemicals). A few chemicals found in fragrances designated as hazardous waste disposal chemicals: methylene chloride; toluene; meythl ethyl ketone; methyl isobutyl ketone; ethanol; benzal chloride. These chemicals are listed in the EPA's Code 40 of Federal Regulations, Ch 1, Section 261.33. 884 toxic substances were identified in a list (partial) of 2,983 chemicals used in the fragrance industry: " Many of these substances are capable of causing cancer, birth defects, central nervous system disorders, breathing and allergic reactions and Multiple Chemical Sensitivities. " (National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health report.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 > Andrine seems to be very tuned in to these issues, and I'm hoping > she'll volunteer to collect the links for the Files section ;-) You betcha Anya. It'll be my pleasure. In health, Andrine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 > I'm really not sure how many - especially new ones - are even tested > for safety, though much of this information may not be in the public > domain. > > > Hey there ! What I got today from the radio show that I wrote about here is that there are several independant groups out there that are taking on the testing of synthetics, petroleum-derived and others (not just scent synthetics, but all manner of synthetics that are used in homes and on people's bodies), and that they're also GCing products to find out what the " trade secret " mystery ingredients are so that all ingredients of the products we buy are disclosed. Hopefully, we can look forward to a future without those toxic coctails like what's in Butch's Just for Men. I think it's great that you're getting involved in this study, and I think that all of us in this group are very fortunate that we have you and your talents adding to our wealth of information. In health, Andrine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 > > > I'm really not sure how many - especially new ones - are even tested > > for safety, though much of this information may not be in the public > > domain. > > > > > > > Hey there ! > > What I got today from the radio show that I wrote about here is that > there are several independant groups out there that are taking on the > testing of synthetics, petroleum-derived and others (not just scent > synthetics, but all manner of synthetics that are used in homes and on > people's bodies), and that they're also GCing products to find out > what the " trade secret " mystery ingredients are so that all > ingredients of the products we buy are disclosed. > > Hopefully, we can look forward to a future without those toxic > coctails like what's in Butch's Just for Men. > > I think it's great that you're getting involved in this study, and I > think that all of us in this group are very fortunate that we have you > and your talents adding to our wealth of information. > > In health, > Andrine > Andrine, that radio interview was extremely interesting, and I took 3 pages of notes.A few highlights for the record, though not all concern fragrance: Over 95% of fragrance ingredients are benzene derivatives. Listeners were advised to buy products that were either unscented or naturally scented, but to avoid synthetic fragrance altogether. Fragrance ingredients do not (of course) have to be listed on a product label. Less than 10% of chemicals found in household and personal care products have been tested for toxicity. Some of the main products that may contain dangerous chemicals are: Deodorants Air fresheners Nail polish Cleaning products Dryer sheets Fabric softeners Color cosmetics They could also have added paints, and paint strippers etc. to this list. Dibutyl phthalate, toluene and formaldehyde were all found in one nail polish, and methylene chloride was found in one baby shampoo. 8-12% of men are functionally sterile (I think this means low sperm count, not zero) this assumed to be due to hormone disruptor chemicals that can have effects at very low levels. Testicular cancer in young men has increased 85% over the past 20 years, and is now the most common cancer in men. Under " Trade secrets " protection a company need not list certain ingredients in a personal care product, or test them for safety. This law only exists in the US, and clearly is of no benefit to the consumer. It's not difficult to register with the FDA a certain collection of ingredients as a " trade secret " . The FDA knows what is in there, but no-one else will. African Americans have a 20% higher susceptibility to cancers in general. We don't know much about the synergistic effects of the hundreds of chemicals we may be exposed to every day - this has not really been studied. More information at www.safecosmetics.org. Tisserand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 synthetics are petroleum-derived, and I'm > particularly wondering whether this is likely to > > imbue them with any toxicity <<SNIP>> > You are right on about the petroleum derived culprits, btw, . > Organic solvents remain the number one carcinogen in our consumer > products. > > The National Academy of Sciences targeted fragrances as one of the > six categories of chemicals that should be given high priority for > neurotoxicity testing. The other groups include insecticides, heavy > metals, solvents, food additives and certain air pollutants. 95% of > chemicals used in fragrances are synthetic compounds derived from > petroleum. They include benzene derivatives, aldehydes, and many > other known toxics and sensitizers - capable of causing cancer, birth > defects, central nervous system disorders and allergic > reactions. " Neurotoxins: At Home and the Workplace " (Report by the > Committee on Science and Technology. U.S. House of Representatives, > Sept, 16, 1986) [Report 99-827] > > A few chemicals found in fragrances known to be neurotoxic: > hexachlorophene; acetyl-ethyl-tetramethyl-tetralin; zinc- > pyridinethione; 2,4,dinitro-3-methyl-6-tert-butylanisole; 1-Butanol; > 2-butanol; tert-Butanol; Isobutanol; t-Butyl Toluene. Neurotoxic > properties of chemicals found in fragrances have caused testicular > atrophy in lab animals as well as myelin disease. The myelin sheath > protects the nerves and does not regenerate. (Compiled from TOXLINE > database of fragrances industry and medical journals.) > > Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson's, Lupus, and Alzheimer's are all > neurological disorders. Dyslexia is a neurological dysfunction. Could > any of these neurological dysfunctions be caused by exposure to > neurotoxic chemicals? Symptoms are often identical to chemical > hypersensitivity. Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) is also a > neurological dysfunction. Could fragrant fabric softeners or > detergents emitting neurotoxic chemicals cause the neurological > breakdown? > > A few chemicals found in fragrances known to cause cancer and birth > defects: methylene chloride; toluene; methyl ethyl ketone; methyl > isobutyl ketone; tert Butyl; sec Butyl; benzyl chloride. (Compiled by > comparing a list of 120 fragrance chemicals from the EPA obtained > through the Freedom of Information Act and California's Prop 65 List > of Chemicals). > > A few chemicals found in fragrances designated as hazardous waste > disposal chemicals: methylene chloride; toluene; meythl ethyl ketone; > methyl isobutyl ketone; ethanol; benzal chloride. These chemicals are > listed in the EPA's Code 40 of Federal Regulations, Ch 1, Section > 261.33. > > 884 toxic substances were identified in a list (partial) of 2,983 > chemicals used in the fragrance industry: " Many of these substances > are capable of causing cancer, birth defects, central nervous system > disorders, breathing and allergic reactions and Multiple Chemical > Sensitivities. " (National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health > report.) > This is right on the nose - just the kind of thing I need. It's late now and I'm tuning out, but I'll look in more detail tomorrow. Tisserand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Tisserand <tisserand@...> wrote: > > >I am looking for any evidence that synthetic fragrance poses > >a greater risk than essential > >oils and natural fragrances, which is proving more dificult than I > >thought. I don't need>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >petroleum-derived chemicals, or other risks associated with > >synthetics, whether skin > >reactions, carcinogens or other. Please write to me offline if you > >have suggestions. > > > > Tisserand > > I'm hoping they'll reply here, , we're long overdue for such an > entry in the Files section. I have quite a bit of websites to send > you to, and I'll post them in a bit. Andrine seems to be very tuned > in to these issues, and I'm hoping she'll volunteer to collect the > links for the Files section ;-) > > Anya McCoy Yes, of course post here - I was just thinking of not cluttering the site with this stuff, but I'm pleased to hear it is of general interest. I have heard anecdotally that 95% of fragrance synthetics are petroleum-derived, and I'm particularly wondering whether this is likely to imbue them with any toxicity, since most of the many ingredients of unrefined petroleum are pretty toxic, and some may remain as " impurities " . There may be other issues with synthetics too. I'm really not sure how many - especially new ones - are even tested for safety, though much of this information may not be in the public domain. Anya hi Can you tell me what they use in central heating oil whether there is any similarities to components in that and what they use in perfume ..... if there is I can give you case study on this one from my experience from weavers cottage in yorkshire and an incident that happened there. let me know guys Janita Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 > <snip>... that radio interview was extremely interesting, and I > took 3 pages of notes. Right on ! Also, check out the files and links for our group. As Anya requested, I added some pertinent info. The files are in a folder called (duh) The Toxic Files, and the links are in a folder called (duh again) The Toxic Links. I suppose I should make an announcement, but I'm gettin' rummy -- too much parfume mixed with election coverage. Anya (bein' on the other coast) is up way before I am -- maybe she'll make the announcement while I'm still sleeping. If not, I'll do it in the morning. Okay -- it IS the morning -- I mean I'll do it when I get up. ....Because knowledge is power... Andrine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 > > >I am looking for any evidence that synthetic fragrance poses > >a greater risk than essential > >oils and natural fragrances, which is proving more dificult than I > >thought. I don't need > >anything more on phthalates, but I'm trying to find hard data on any > >inherent risk from > >petroleum-derived chemicals, or other risks associated with > >synthetics, whether skin > >reactions, carcinogens or other. Please write to me offline if you > >have suggestions. > > OK, here's what I pulled out of my bookmarks searching for toxic or chemical: > > Here is a greenpeace article on the synth chems, on phthalates and > artificial musks: > http://www.greenpeace.org/raw/content/international/press/reports/phthalates-and\ - artificial-musk.pdf > > http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/press/reports/perfume-an-investigation-of > Greenpeace's article on toxic perfumes. You have to download the PDF > to see the list and the chems them contain. > > http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/health/feeds/hscout/2005/01/10/hscout523271.html > The synth musk/immune system article. > > http://www.ameliaww.com/fpin/FragMatTox.htm#carcinogen > toxic/carcinogenic fragrance materials > > the index for the above page: http://www.ameliaww.com/fpin/FragMatTox.htm#TOP > > http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/04/27/news/perfume.php newspaper article > > http://www.ourlittleplace.com/chemicals.html > > http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/health/feeds/hscout/2005/01/10/hscout523271.html > magazine article on artificial musks > > > Anya McCoy > This is great Anya, and I will check them out tomorrow - actually it's today now. I have been busy building a large, square container to make leaf mulch in my garden, as we get so many leaves and I'm effectively paying someone to take them away each week. We have about 20 huge oak trees and a few sycamores. Also 50 lime trees, but they don't shed. I have also been busy this week making limeade, lime pickle and candied lime peel dipped in dark chocolate. Lime marmalade next, and maybe some margaritas. Tisserand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 >> > This is great Anya, and I will check them out tomorrow - actually > it's today now. I have > been busy building a large, square container to make leaf mulch in > my garden, as we get > so many leaves and I'm effectively paying someone to take them away > each week. We have > about 20 huge oak trees and a few sycamores. Also 50 lime trees, > but they don't shed. I > have also been busy this week making limeade, lime pickle and > candied lime peel dipped > in dark chocolate. Lime marmalade next, and maybe some margaritas. > > Tisserand > > > where do you live robert? i am coming over.... xoxoxo L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Tisserand <tisserand@...> wrote: > > >I am looking for any evidence that synthetic fragrance poses > >a greater risk than essential > >oils and natural fragrances, which is proving more dificult than I > >thought. I don't need > >anything more on phthalates, but I'm trying to find hard data on any > >inherent risk from > >petroleum-derived chemicals, or other risks associated with > >synthetics, whether skin > >reactions, carcinogens or other. Please write to me offline if you > >have suggestions. > , I know you have a lot to look at now but I wanted to include one more link to the Feingold association's information on fragrance. The Feingold Assn is mainly about children's behavioral reactions to salicilates and petroleum-derived additives in foods. My family is on the Feingold diet because my daughter has Tourette syndrome and other issues. Her symptoms are mostly controlled as long as we keep her away from chemical food additives (very difficult to do even in health food stores). The FA compiles a great deal of info about cosmetic products as well. www.feingold.org/research-pg.html --------------------------------- Check out the all-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 > > >> > > This is great Anya, and I will check them out tomorrow - actually > > it's today now. I have > > been busy building a large, square container to make leaf mulch in > > my garden, as we get > > so many leaves and I'm effectively paying someone to take them away > > each week. We have > > about 20 huge oak trees and a few sycamores. Also 50 lime trees, > > but they don't shed. I > > have also been busy this week making limeade, lime pickle and > > candied lime peel dipped > > in dark chocolate. Lime marmalade next, and maybe some margaritas. > > > > Tisserand > > > > > where do you live robert? > i am coming over.... > > xoxoxo > > L > Ojai California, and it's be HOT the last few days. And thanks, I could use some help in the back yard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 > > >I am looking for any evidence that synthetic fragrance poses > > >a greater risk than essential > > >oils and natural fragrances, which is proving more dificult than I > > >thought. I don't need > > >anything more on phthalates, but I'm trying to find hard data on any > > >inherent risk from > > >petroleum-derived chemicals, or other risks associated with > > >synthetics, whether skin > > >reactions, carcinogens or other. Please write to me offline if you > > >have suggestions. > > > > > , > I know you have a lot to look at now but I wanted to include one more link to the Feingold association's information on fragrance. The Feingold Assn is mainly about children's behavioral reactions to salicilates and petroleum-derived additives in foods. My family is on the Feingold diet because my daughter has Tourette syndrome and other issues. Her symptoms are mostly controlled as long as we keep her away from chemical food additives (very difficult to do even in health food stores). The FA compiles a great deal of info about cosmetic products as well. > > > > www.feingold.org/research-pg.html > Thanks , I have seen this before but there is some very good material here. The selection of papers seems somewhat random, but I can see what they are trying to do. Tisserand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 > > >I am looking for any evidence that synthetic fragrance poses > >a greater risk than essential > >oils and natural fragrances, which is proving more dificult than I > >thought. I don't need > >anything more on phthalates, but I'm trying to find hard data on any > >inherent risk from > >petroleum-derived chemicals, or other risks associated with > >synthetics, whether skin > >reactions, carcinogens or other. Please write to me offline if you > >have suggestions. > > OK, here's what I pulled out of my bookmarks searching for toxic or chemical: > > Here is a greenpeace article on the synth chems, on phthalates and > artificial musks: > http://www.greenpeace.org/raw/content/international/press/reports/phthalates-and\ - artificial-musk.pdf > I had not seen this paper - excellent material. > http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/press/reports/perfume-an-investigation-of > Greenpeace's article on toxic perfumes. You have to download the PDF > to see the list and the chems them contain. > I love the title of this one: " L'Eau de Toxines " > http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/health/feeds/hscout/2005/01/10/hscout523271.html > The synth musk/immune system article. > The original article is at: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi? artid=1253704 & blobtype=pdf > http://www.ameliaww.com/fpin/FragMatTox.htm#carcinogen > toxic/carcinogenic fragrance materials > Lots of information here. Judging from the few natural materials listed, I would say that this is not very carefully considered - we know for instance that limonene is not toxic to human kidneys, and coumarin is not carcinogenic to humans, though they are listed here as being so in animals, with no reference to human risk. > the index for the above page: http://www.ameliaww.com/fpin/FragMatTox.htm#TOP > > http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/04/27/news/perfume.php newspaper article > Nice summary > http://www.ourlittleplace.com/chemicals.html I would say that the information here is scaremongering, and is very misleading. To say, for instance, that linalool " causes cns disorder " because it causes very mild sedation is an attempt to see risk where there is none. Linalool is found in almost every essential oil by the way. > http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/health/feeds/hscout/2005/01/10/hscout523271.html > magazine article on artificial musks > > > Anya McCoy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 > I have also been busy this week making limeade, lime pickle and > candied lime peel dipped in dark chocolate. Lime marmalade next, and > maybe some margaritas. > > Tisserand Ya know -- you can't send out this kind of info without getting us all het up for lime everything. This is an open invitation for all of us to come over to your place and join in the lime extravaganza... ;-) Sometimes I wish I lived in warm climes -- Anya's garden makes me drool and I can't help but feel a slight twinge of envy when writes about his narcissus. But then I look at all of the mushrooms and doug firs and our incredible native berries, and think of our comfortable summers, and I decide to stay put. For now... Andrine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 synthetics are petroleum-derived, and I'm > particularly wondering whether this is likely to > > imbue them with any toxicity <<SNIP>> > You are right on about the petroleum derived culprits, btw, . > Organic solvents remain the number one carcinogen in our consumer > products. > > The National Academy of Sciences targeted fragrances as one of the > six categories of chemicals that should be given high priority for > neurotoxicity testing. The other groups include insecticides, heavy > metals, solvents, food additives and certain air pollutants. 95% of > chemicals used in fragrances are synthetic compounds derived from > petroleum. They include benzene derivatives, aldehydes, and many > other known toxics and sensitizers - capable of causing cancer, birth > defects, central nervous system disorders and allergic > reactions. " Neurotoxins: At Home and the Workplace " (Report by the > Committee on Science and Technology. U.S. House of Representatives, > Sept, 16, 1986) [Report 99-827] > > A few chemicals found in fragrances known to be neurotoxic: > hexachlorophene; acetyl-ethyl-tetramethyl-tetralin; zinc- > pyridinethione; 2,4,dinitro-3-methyl-6-tert-butylanisole; 1-Butanol; > 2-butanol; tert-Butanol; Isobutanol; t-Butyl Toluene. Neurotoxic > properties of chemicals found in fragrances have caused testicular > atrophy in lab animals as well as myelin disease. The myelin sheath > protects the nerves and does not regenerate. (Compiled from TOXLINE > database of fragrances industry and medical journals.) > > Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson's, Lupus, and Alzheimer's are all > neurological disorders. Dyslexia is a neurological dysfunction. Could > any of these neurological dysfunctions be caused by exposure to > neurotoxic chemicals? Symptoms are often identical to chemical > hypersensitivity. Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) is also a > neurological dysfunction. Could fragrant fabric softeners or > detergents emitting neurotoxic chemicals cause the neurological > breakdown? > > A few chemicals found in fragrances known to cause cancer and birth > defects: methylene chloride; toluene; methyl ethyl ketone; methyl > isobutyl ketone; tert Butyl; sec Butyl; benzyl chloride. (Compiled by > comparing a list of 120 fragrance chemicals from the EPA obtained > through the Freedom of Information Act and California's Prop 65 List > of Chemicals). > > A few chemicals found in fragrances designated as hazardous waste > disposal chemicals: methylene chloride; toluene; meythl ethyl ketone; > methyl isobutyl ketone; ethanol; benzal chloride. These chemicals are > listed in the EPA's Code 40 of Federal Regulations, Ch 1, Section > 261.33. > > 884 toxic substances were identified in a list (partial) of 2,983 > chemicals used in the fragrance industry: " Many of these substances > are capable of causing cancer, birth defects, central nervous system > disorders, breathing and allergic reactions and Multiple Chemical > Sensitivities. " (National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health > report.) > I think the full piece that this came from was " Making Sense of Scents " , which can be found at: http://users.lmi.net/~wilworks/ehnmsofs.htm and has more of the same. Tisserand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 > > I have also been busy this week making limeade, lime pickle and > > candied lime peel dipped in dark chocolate. Lime marmalade next, and > > maybe some margaritas. > > > > Tisserand > > Ya know -- you can't send out this kind of info without getting > us all het up for lime everything. This is an open invitation for all > of us to come over to your place and join in the lime > extravaganza... ;-) > > Sometimes I wish I lived in warm climes -- Anya's garden makes me > drool and I can't help but feel a slight twinge of envy when > writes about his narcissus. But then I look at all of the mushrooms > and doug firs and our incredible native berries, and think of our > comfortable summers, and I decide to stay put. For now... > > Andrine > I just hate to see all those delicious limes fall off the trees and rot - most of them still do - hard to imagine why someone would want so many lime trees, rather than oranges, tangerines, lemons - some of each would have been great - maybe I'll try grafting sometime. Winter here is very short, if you can even call it winter. Well, we get some snow on the peaks around the valley sometimes. After living in sun-starved England for 50 years I'm not complaining - I like it hot. Though 90 in November is pretty crazy. I also have some giant birds of paradise out the back - not fragrant, just trying to make you more jealous.. T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 ..>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Winter here is very short, if you can even call it winter. Well, we get some snow on the peaks around the valley sometimes. After living in sun-starved England for 50 years I'm not complaining - I like it hot. Though 90 in November is pretty crazy. I also have some giant birds of paradise out the back - not fragrant, just trying to make you more jealous.. T. Hi R & A Well I am in Wales where the frost is crunchy and beautiful in the morning at the moment..... then sunny during day...... getting misty and foggy early evenings ..... the squirells are squirelling, chestnuts are falling off the trees...... colours of leaves turning reds, yellows and oranges.... canoe season finished white water starting. Hay on Fire a couple of weekends ago on the river complete with drummers, dancers and a massive firework display ..... yellow lighted street lamps.....apple season in full swing all generics....magic..... ....... I keep getting side tracked ..... I must go .... janita Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 --- " Andrine C. Olson-Kirschenman " <midvale808@...> wrote: > > > I have also been busy this week making limeade, > lime pickle , Is this the wonderful, spicy Indian lime pickle or something else? I would love to have a recipe for the stuff. Have you made lime sorbet? A little ginger gives it a really nice kick. > Sometimes I wish I lived in warm climes -- Anya's > garden makes me > drool Andrine, I know exactly what you mean. When Anya mentioned she had so many ripe pineapples that she was giving them to her neighbors, I was drooling! But I would miss the gorgeous, crisp fall days we've been having here and soon I'll be sledding with my kids and throwing snowballs! I have thought a lot about running away to Ojai one of these days... ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near historic lows: $150,000 loan as low as $579/mo. Intro-*Terms https://www2.nextag.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 > I just hate to see all those delicious limes fall off the trees and > rot <snip>... I also have some giant birds of paradise out the back - > not fragrant, just trying to make you more jealous.. > > T. Quite the brat sometimes, aren't ya! It did the trick... I'm positivley green. Hey -- my cousin's from Ojai -- they lived in an avocado orchard. That would be my downfall. I'd be positivly ROUND! I'd live on avocados and limes -- talk about a perfect marriage! Mmmmm!!!!! Now, I DO have some nice fir boughs down just now from our latest insane weather up here -- I can hear them calling me to distill them.... Along with the wild mushrooms... Okay -- so this doesn't compare with limes. You win! From a rather Orkney-ish Northwest (but with more plants), Andrine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 On 08/11/06, Tisserand <tisserand@...> wrote: > > > > I just hate to see all those delicious limes fall off the trees and rot - most of them still do - > hard to imagine why someone would want so many lime trees, rather than oranges, > tangerines, lemons - some of each would have been great - maybe I'll try grafting > sometime. Winter here is very short, if you can even call it winter. Well, we get some snow > on the peaks around the valley sometimes. After living in sun-starved England for 50 years > I'm not complaining - I like it hot. Though 90 in November is pretty crazy. you make me very jealous! Though Autumn here in Manchester UK has been the mildest I have ever known - in a short sleeved tee-shirt mucking out the horses today! Can you imagine England that warm in November!!??? But back on track... Are you familiar with Scirus Search? http://www.scirus.com/srsapp/ Has some interesting stuff. LLx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 ......Though Autumn here in Manchester UK > has been the mildest I have ever known - in a short sleeved tee-shirt > mucking out the horses today! Can you imagine England that warm in > November!!??? But sad to say it was raining....warm rain, but still wet :-( ....and muddy...and I was tossing back the miden, so maybe that why I felt warm....? Winter. I hate it. <sigh>. Janita's crispiness, yes, that's OK. but mud - Fast forward me to summer and roses in bloom..... LLx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 >> I also have some giant birds of paradise out the back - > > not fragrant, just trying to make you more jealous.. > > > > T. > > Quite the brat sometimes, aren't ya! It did the trick... I'm > positivley green. Hey -- my cousin's from Ojai -- they lived in an > avocado orchard. That would be my downfall. I'd be positivly ROUND! > I'd live on avocados and limes -- talk about a perfect marriage! > Mmmmm!!!!! > > Now, I DO have some nice fir boughs down just now from our > latest insane weather up here -- I can hear them calling me to distill > them.... Along with the wild mushrooms... Okay -- so this doesn't > compare with limes. You win! > > From a rather Orkney-ish Northwest (but with more plants), > Andrine > Yup, Ojai has lots of avocados and oranges, and we get to rub shoulders with our local celebs - all of whom seem to be old men - Larry Hagman, Ted Danson, Strauss, Malcolm McDowell, Hopkins. It's quite fun to bump into Malcolm McDowell in your local health store or go to tea with Ted! Now I really am being a brat.. T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Tisserand <tisserand@...> wrote: >> I also have some giant birds of paradise out the back - > > not fragrant, just trying to make you more jealous.. > > > > T. > > Quite the brat sometimes, aren't ya! It did the trick... I'm > positivley green. Hey -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > I'd live on avocados and limes -- talk about a perfect marriage! > Mmmmm!!!!! > > Now, I DO have some nice fir boughs down just now from our > latest insane weather up here -- I can hear them calling me to distill > them.... Along with the wild mushrooms... Okay -- so this doesn't > compare with limes. You win! > > From a rather Orkney-ish Northwest (but with more plants), > Andrine > Yup, Ojai has lots of avocados and oranges, and we get to rub shoulders with our local celebs - all of whom seem to be old men - Larry Hagman, Ted Danson, Strauss, Malcolm McDowell, Hopkins. It's quite fun to bump into Malcolm McDowell in your local health store or go to tea with Ted! Now I really am being a brat.. T. Hah!!! Tshowin off are ya I can match!!!!! Rubbed shoulders with Lydon / sex pistols had champagne with Jimmy Page (Led Zep)in his suite when on tour (and no it wasn't like that ...... very dignified and was with whispering 'bob harris' from old grey whistle test'..... Queen Kinks Aerosmith dooby brothers manfred mann wings bob geldof etc etc.................who's being a brat now!!! This is just tooooooo funny!!!!!!! Janita Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 At 03:13 AM 11/8/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > Anya McCoy > > >This is great Anya, and I will check them out tomorrow - actually >it's today now. I have >been busy building a large, square container to make leaf mulch in >my garden, as we get >so many leaves and I'm effectively paying someone to take them away >each week. We have >about 20 huge oak trees and a few sycamores. Also 50 lime trees, but >they don't shed. I >have also been busy this week making limeade, lime pickle and >candied lime peel dipped >in dark chocolate. Lime marmalade next, and maybe some margaritas. Oak tree leaves are like leather, -- have you noticed they take forever to break down? It's now time for them to start falling in my back yard, where I have two heritage oaks, and what a mess, between the pollen, sap and leaves. If I don't keep the paths clean constantly, they are very dangerous. On topic for the group -- I can complain that they aren't fragrant! Anya McCoy Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://anyasgarden.com Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://artisannaturalperfumers.org Natural Perfumers Chat Group / ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.0/525 - Release Date: 11/9/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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